🚀 go-pugleaf

an52...@anon.penet.fi wrote:

: Someone said:
: My Opinion:DN3D is cool,but I think he looks stupid.His voice
: is dumb as hell too,they should have had a voice that sounded like
: Arny's,or maybe that guy on the Simpsons that sounds like Arny.
: Anyways a goofy voice would of made the game better.

: And I AGREE ! I think Duke must be homosexual. He sure looks like a
: faggot, fresh from admiring himself after bodybuilding ! I find it
: hard to believe someone that looks as clean as that can be a hero.
: I Think 3drealms should give him a higher voice, something like
: 'ooh I'm so pretty, lick my love pump, big boy'...

Why don't you bitch about something substantive, like:
  1) The music/sound setup can't autodetect DMA channels for shit
  2) The saved game thumbnails are corrupted 1/3 to 1/2 the time
  3) Game restores occasionally bomb right out of the program
  4) It likes to wegde machines HARD.  As in locking up the keyboard beyond
all hope of a three-finger salute.  Once I even crashed into some debug
code that blew my monitor into some half-assed 40x25 CGA text mode, rang
the speaker bell like it was a fire alarm, and dumped the processor
state to LPT1:, complete with the register contents.

I guess these guys were so busy talking to their lawyers about how
"creating your own levels or reverse engineering the software" (i.e.,
writing your own level editors, sound/graphics extraction and replacement
utilites, etc.) is "a violation of the vendor's rights" that they couldn't
be bothered to debug their software.  Bullshit.  Id let the kids run
hog wild with DOOM and they made a buttload of money.

Mayhaps that's why Id and Apogee went their separate ways...

Looks like a beta test to me.  Once they work the bugs out, it should be
tolerable, though.

One last word: DON'T TRY to run this game on a 486DX2/66.  It must drop 75%
of the frames.  You'll need a Pentium or one of those hopped-up
clock-ntupled AMD 486 chips to get any performance out of this thing.

Followups trimmed to combat the 13-year old mindset.  Not like it'll do any
good.

--
 "A distributed system is one in which the failure of | G. Branden Robinson
  a computer you didn't even know existed can render  | Aerospace Engineering
  your own computer unusable."                        | Purdue University
                    -- Leslie Lamport                 | bra...@ecn.purdue.edu

In article <4g9gnq$j...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>, Branden Robinson
<bra...@ecn.purdue.edu> writes
>  1) The music/sound setup can't autodetect DMA channels for shit

Really? Got my SB16 on DMA5 fine.

>  2) The saved game thumbnails are corrupted 1/3 to 1/2 the time

Never happened once to me.

>  3) Game restores occasionally bomb right out of the program

Same here.

>  4) It likes to wegde machines HARD.  As in locking up the keyboard beyond
>all hope of a three-finger salute.  Once I even crashed into some debug
>code that blew my monitor into some half-assed 40x25 CGA text mode, rang
>the speaker bell like it was a fire alarm, and dumped the processor
>state to LPT1:, complete with the register contents.

Try: typing mode co80, disconnecting your PC Speaker, and getting a
better computer, as Duke's never crashed mine at all, once. Even dumping
it into Paradise enhanced gfx mode on my Cirrus card didn't lock it.

>
>I guess these guys were so busy talking to their lawyers about how
>"creating your own levels or reverse engineering the software" (i.e.,
>writing your own level editors, sound/graphics extraction and replacement
>utilites, etc.) is "a violation of the vendor's rights" that they couldn't
>be bothered to debug their software.  Bullshit.  Id let the kids run
>hog wild with DOOM and they made a buttload of money.

Er, wake up, Apogee provide level and gfx editors with the registered
version, and you can edit the sound in the shareware.

>One last word: DON'T TRY to run this game on a 486DX2/66.  It must drop 75%
>of the frames.  You'll need a Pentium or one of those hopped-up
>clock-ntupled AMD 486 chips to get any performance out of this thing.

I run it on a DX33. Very nicely, thankyou. 8fps in the mode I play at
(2/3 screen window, sound FX only - no music or ambience). I can bear
8fps.
--
Adam Williamson, D1M - ad...@scss.demon.co.uk
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/The_Williamsons/
Doom2: The Tyranny Levels, Insertion, Memento Mori 2

Adam Williamson (Ad...@scss.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: In article <4g9gnq$j...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>, Branden Robinson
: <bra...@ecn.purdue.edu> writes
: >  1) The music/sound setup can't autodetect DMA channels for shit

: Really? Got my SB16 on DMA5 fine.

Does everyone use a SB16?  And does everyone use DMA5?  Thanks for playing.
I use a PAS-16, hardly an uncommon sound card, on IRQ's 5 and 10 with the
DMA's at 3 and 7.  These vary widely with the presence of other configured
hardware.

The point of an autodetector is so the clueless don't have to worry about
IRQ's and DMA's.  If the autodetector can't save those poor souls, then
they should include a README.TXT or a FAQ text file that says, "If you want
sound, be sure to determine the IRQ's and DMA channels that your card
uses."  In this age of Windows 95 and Plug and Play, Joe Q. User doesn't
know about these things.  Call it a difference in software design philosophy,
but I really think you have to design game software for the lowest common
denominator of user.  If, say, you're writing a sector editor or some heavy
hardware diagnostic software, it's safe to assume a little more knowledge
on the part of your customer base.

: >  2) The saved game thumbnails are corrupted 1/3 to 1/2 the time

: Never happened once to me.

Good for you.  It shouldn't happen to ANYONE.  That's why they call them
bugs.

: >  3) Game restores occasionally bomb right out of the program

: Same here.

Same here as in "never happened", or same here as in "I get that too"?  At
any rate, judging from the error message generator right before it drops
back to the DOS prompt, some variable is not being assigned.

: >  4) It likes to wegde machines HARD.  As in locking up the keyboard beyond
: >all hope of a three-finger salute.  Once I even crashed into some debug
: >code that blew my monitor into some half-assed 40x25 CGA text mode, rang
: >the speaker bell like it was a fire alarm, and dumped the processor
: >state to LPT1:, complete with the register contents.

: Try: typing mode co80, disconnecting your PC Speaker, and getting a
: better computer, as Duke's never crashed mine at all, once. Even dumping
: it into Paradise enhanced gfx mode on my Cirrus card didn't lock it.

"mode co80".  No shit, Sherlock.  Kinda hard to type that when the keyboard
interrupt is being ignored.  "disconnecting your PC speaker"  A real good
idea for hearing those POST beeps that the BIOS sends in that direction,
should you experience hardware problems at boot.  I hardly think that
deconfiguring any piece of hardware (especially a commonplace one) is a
solution.

"getting a better computer" -- mayhaps you'd like to send me the money to
do so.  The point is that games should be designed for a variety of platforms.  Mine is hardly unusual, in any case.  The problem lies in software.  If the
answer to all software bugs was hardware replacement, all software releases
would end with ".0".  

: >I guess these guys were so busy talking to their lawyers about how
: >"creating your own levels or reverse engineering the software" (i.e.,
: >writing your own level editors, sound/graphics extraction and replacement
: >utilites, etc.) is "a violation of the vendor's rights" that they couldn't
: >be bothered to debug their software.  Bullshit.  Id let the kids run
: >hog wild with DOOM and they made a buttload of money.

: Er, wake up, Apogee provide level and gfx editors with the registered
: version, and you can edit the sound in the shareware.

Read more closely.  You're not supposed to make YOUR OWN.  What if you are
dissatisfied with the editors they provide?  (Unlikely, perhaps, if these
are the same editors they used in the design phase...I hear Parallax's
in-house Descent level editor seriously rocks over what has been cobbled
together by users.  Nevertheless, this is a freedom that heretofore could
have been regarded as commonplace.)

: >One last word: DON'T TRY to run this game on a 486DX2/66.  It must drop 75%
: >of the frames.  You'll need a Pentium or one of those hopped-up
: >clock-ntupled AMD 486 chips to get any performance out of this thing.

: I run it on a DX33. Very nicely, thankyou. 8fps in the mode I play at
: (2/3 screen window, sound FX only - no music or ambience). I can bear
: 8fps.

*EIGHT* fps?  Read my reply to the other gentleman from the UK.  Maybe I'm
spoiled, but I like being on full screen, high detail, with full ambience,
music, duke talk, shadows, etc. etc.  And I still seldom dip below 30
fps.  If you can live with 8fps, more power to ya.

I do have one more complaint:

5) Has anyone else noticed some rather primitive sound-sourcing?  For
instance, stand next to a roaring fire -- it comes out equally from both
speakers -- it doesn't matter if the blaze is to your left or right.  I
thought Descent had this right with fans.

Oh well, despite your lambasting, the point of my post was to get off the
"Duke looks like a faggot, he talks like a wuss, huh, huh-huh, I'm gonna
flip burgers for the rest of my life" tangent.  At least you were talking
issues at least somewhat relevant to the newsgroups.  Thanks.

--
 "The key to being a Southern Baptist:  It ain't a    | G. Branden Robinson
  sin if you don't get caught."                       | Purdue University
                    -- Anthony Davidson               | bra...@ecn.purdue.edu

bra...@ecn.purdue.edu (Branden Robinson) wrote:
>an52...@anon.penet.fi wrote:
>
>: Someone said:
>: My Opinion:DN3D is cool,but I think he looks stupid.His voice
>: is dumb as hell too,they should have had a voice that sounded like
>: Arny's,or maybe that guy on the Simpsons that sounds like Arny.
>: Anyways a goofy voice would of made the game better.
>
>: And I AGREE ! I think Duke must be homosexual. He sure looks like a
>: faggot, fresh from admiring himself after bodybuilding ! I find it
>: hard to believe someone that looks as clean as that can be a hero.
>: I Think 3drealms should give him a higher voice, something like
>: 'ooh I'm so pretty, lick my love pump, big boy'...
>
>Why don't you bitch about something substantive, like:
>  1) The music/sound setup can't autodetect DMA channels for shit
>  2) The saved game thumbnails are corrupted 1/3 to 1/2 the time
>  3) Game restores occasionally bomb right out of the program
>  4) It likes to wegde machines HARD.  As in locking up the keyboard beyond
>all hope of a three-finger salute.  Once I even crashed into some debug
>code that blew my monitor into some half-assed 40x25 CGA text mode, rang
>the speaker bell like it was a fire alarm, and dumped the processor
>state to LPT1:, complete with the register contents.
>
>I guess these guys were so busy talking to their lawyers about how
>"creating your own levels or reverse engineering the software" (i.e.,
>writing your own level editors, sound/graphics extraction and replacement
>utilites, etc.) is "a violation of the vendor's rights" that they couldn't
>be bothered to debug their software.  Bullshit.  Id let the kids run
>hog wild with DOOM and they made a buttload of money.
>
>Mayhaps that's why Id and Apogee went their separate ways...
>
>Looks like a beta test to me.  Once they work the bugs out, it should be
>tolerable, though.
>
>One last word: DON'T TRY to run this game on a 486DX2/66.  It must drop 75%
>of the frames.  You'll need a Pentium or one of those hopped-up
>clock-ntupled AMD 486 chips to get any performance out of this thing.
>
>Followups trimmed to combat the 13-year old mindset.  Not like it'll do any
>good.
>
>--
> "A distributed system is one in which the failure of | G. Branden Robinson
>  a computer you didn't even know existed can render  | Aerospace Engineering
>  your own computer unusable."                        | Purdue University
>                    -- Leslie Lamport                 | bra...@ecn.purdue.edu

I have a 486 DX2/66, and I run at about 12-15 Frames Per Second, which I 
consider reasonable. As for it dropping out and corrupting saves all the 
time, there is a simple solution. Don't load up smartdrv and emm386. I 
had these loaded originally, but once I started playing without them 
loaded, not only did it stop locking up, but it ran faster as well. Since 
disabling those two files, I've only had Duke lock up once in 2 weeks. 
Hope this helps...
TJ Peterson

In article <4g9gnq$j...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>,
   bra...@ecn.purdue.edu (Branden Robinson) wrote:
>an52...@anon.penet.fi wrote:
>
>: Someone said:
>: My Opinion:DN3D is cool,but I think he looks stupid.His voice
>: is dumb as hell too,they should have had a voice that sounded like
>: Arny's,or maybe that guy on the Simpsons that sounds like Arny.
>: Anyways a goofy voice would of made the game better.
>
>: And I AGREE ! I think Duke must be homosexual. He sure looks like a
>: faggot, fresh from admiring himself after bodybuilding ! I find it
>: hard to believe someone that looks as clean as that can be a hero.
>: I Think 3drealms should give him a higher voice, something like
>: 'ooh I'm so pretty, lick my love pump, big boy'...
>
>Why don't you bitch about something substantive, like:
>  1) The music/sound setup can't autodetect DMA channels for shit
>  2) The saved game thumbnails are corrupted 1/3 to 1/2 the time
>  3) Game restores occasionally bomb right out of the program
>  4) It likes to wegde machines HARD.  As in locking up the keyboard beyond
>all hope of a three-finger salute.  Once I even crashed into some debug
>code that blew my monitor into some half-assed 40x25 CGA text mode, rang
>the speaker bell like it was a fire alarm, and dumped the processor
>state to LPT1:, complete with the register contents.
>
>I guess these guys were so busy talking to their lawyers about how
>"creating your own levels or reverse engineering the software" (i.e.,
>writing your own level editors, sound/graphics extraction and replacement
>utilites, etc.) is "a violation of the vendor's rights" that they couldn't
>be bothered to debug their software.  Bullshit.  Id let the kids run
>hog wild with DOOM and they made a buttload of money.
>
>Mayhaps that's why Id and Apogee went their separate ways...
>
>Looks like a beta test to me.  Once they work the bugs out, it should be
>tolerable, though.
>
>One last word: DON'T TRY to run this game on a 486DX2/66.  It must drop 75%
>of the frames.  You'll need a Pentium or one of those hopped-up
>clock-ntupled AMD 486 chips to get any performance out of this thing.
>
>Followups trimmed to combat the 13-year old mindset.  Not like it'll do any
>good.
>


Sorry but IMHO you are talking CRAP. ND3D runs fine on a dx2 66 ,the graphics 
engine to do this must be bloody good but it is I even ran it in win95 and its 
fine.

I get an average frame rate of about 15 on my dx2 this is fine and frames have 
only ever 'dropped' when the hard disk is used (this has happened to me twice 
so far).
I've had no problem with with duke 3d sure theres the odd minor bug ( like 
when you blow up the cinema screen you get a glass breaking sound ) but as 
long as you save a game properly ie remembering to press return when saving 
over an existing game and when the new save screen comes up press return 
again.

I've not had it crash on me at all yet but the cga mode thing you are talking 
about is quite standard when a game crashes I know that Bullfrog games always 
return you to this type of mode when they crash out and other games such as 
micro machines do the same.

Christopher Arrowsmith (ITH...@news.salford.ac.uk) wrote:
: In article <4g9gnq$j...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>,
:    bra...@ecn.purdue.edu (Branden Robinson) wrote:

[my own bitching deleted]

: Sorry but IMHO you are talking CRAP. ND3D runs fine on a dx2 66 ,the graphics 
: engine to do this must be bloody good but it is I even ran it in win95 and its
: fine.

: I get an average frame rate of about 15 on my dx2 this is fine and frames have
: only ever 'dropped' when the hard disk is used (this has happened to me twice 
: so far).

Exactly.  A frame rate of 15.  On my machine I seldom get frame rates
dropping below 30, and I've seen them get into the 70's (granted, when
there's not much refresh to do, ANYBODY can get a high frame rate).

I have, however, not tried it in anything but 320x200.  I'm sure I can find
a VESA mode where my machine runs glacially.

Call me spoiled, but I find 15 fps to be less than tolerable.

: I've had no problem with with duke 3d sure theres the odd minor bug ( like 
: when you blow up the cinema screen you get a glass breaking sound ) but as 

So much more satisfying than the sound of ripping vinyl, don'tcha think?

: long as you save a game properly ie remembering to press return when saving 
: over an existing game and when the new save screen comes up press return 
: again.

That's what I do.  No dice.  Somehow the little bitmapped thumbnail is
getting hosed.

: I've not had it crash on me at all yet but the cga mode thing you are talking 
: about is quite standard when a game crashes I know that Bullfrog games always 
: return you to this type of mode when they crash out and other games such as 
: micro machines do the same.

I presume that's because 320x200 VGA corresponds to 40x25 text mode with
the character generator.  But I'd have to RSFM's before advancing any more
detailed theories.

--
 "Reality is what refuses to go away when I stop      | G. Branden Robinson
  believing in it."                                   | Purdue University
                    -- Philip K. Dick                 | bra...@ecn.purdue.edu

>"getting a better computer" -- mayhaps you'd like to send me the money 
to
>do so.  The point is that games should be designed for a variety of 
platforms.  
>Mine is hardly unusual, in any case.  The problem lies in software.  If 
the
>answer to all software bugs was hardware replacement, all software 
releases
>would end with ".0".  
Man I would love that :>
"What, my game only gets 10 fps? Well, its obvious you need a Xonix..."

>: >One last word: DON'T TRY to run this game on a 486DX2/66.  It must 
drop 75%
>: >of the frames.  You'll need a Pentium or one of those hopped-up
>: >clock-ntupled AMD 486 chips to get any performance out of this thing.
>
>: I run it on a DX33. Very nicely, thankyou. 8fps in the mode I play at
>: (2/3 screen window, sound FX only - no music or ambience). I can bear
>: 8fps.
>
>*EIGHT* fps?  Read my reply to the other gentleman from the UK.  Maybe 
I'm
>spoiled, but I like being on full screen, high detail, with full 
ambience,
>music, duke talk, shadows, etc. etc.  And I still seldom dip below 30
>fps.  If you can live with 8fps, more power to ya.
If someone can play well at 8 fps, I would be very scared to take them on 
in DukeMatch if they had a 24 fps machine....

>I do have one more complaint:
>
>5) Has anyone else noticed some rather primitive sound-sourcing?  For
>instance, stand next to a roaring fire -- it comes out equally from both
>speakers -- it doesn't matter if the blaze is to your left or right.  I
>thought Descent had this right with fans.
Well, when you're busy RPGing the hell out of something, the exact 
location of secondary sounds really doesn't matter. Its nice, but not 
very important.

What really bugs me is DukeMatch....

apart from a lot of desync errors, the game bombed a LOT when we had 4 
people. it was fun as hell, but I noticed several computer reboots 
(triple faulting) and a lot of hangs, and the aforemention desyncs.... we 
did similiar stuff with Doom and Descent, which also had sync problems at 
highly variably points, but never at anywhere near 1/4 of this level.


-- 
Nick
--
Dragonball(z) FAQ http://www.eden.com/~nickm/db.html
Proud member, DBZLF. 
--
Hell is for very bad people, and the lawyers that defend them.

Adam Williamson (Ad...@scss.demon.co.uk) wrote:

: I run it on a DX33. Very nicely, thankyou. 8fps in the mode I play at
: (2/3 screen window, sound FX only - no music or ambience). I can bear
: 8fps.

I might be stupid, but:

Where do you guys pull those fps figures from? I have read through all the
docs I think, and there wasn't a single mention on how to measure these.

Bernie

Bernd Meyer (bme...@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au) wrote:
: Adam Williamson (Ad...@scss.demon.co.uk) wrote:

: : I run it on a DX33. Very nicely, thankyou. 8fps in the mode I play at

: Where do you guys pull those fps figures from? I have read through all the
: docs I think, and there wasn't a single mention on how to measure these.

type DNRATE and it will return the framerate

Bernd Meyer (bme...@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au) wrote:
: Adam Williamson (Ad...@scss.demon.co.uk) wrote:

: : I run it on a DX33. Very nicely, thankyou. 8fps in the mode I play at
: : (2/3 screen window, sound FX only - no music or ambience). I can bear
: : 8fps.

: I might be stupid, but:

: Where do you guys pull those fps figures from? I have read through all the
: docs I think, and there wasn't a single mention on how to measure these.

It's a "cheat code".  Type DNRATE during game play and viola, there ya go.

--
 Murphy's Guide to Science:                           | G. Branden Robinson
   "If it's green or squirms, it's biology.           | Aerospace Engineering
    If it stinks, it's chemistry.                     | Purdue University
    If it doesn't work, it's physics."                | bra...@ecn.purdue.edu

>>One last word: DON'T TRY to run this game on a 486DX2/66.  It must drop 75%
>>of the frames.  You'll need a Pentium or one of those hopped-up
>>clock-ntupled AMD 486 chips to get any performance out of this thing.
>
>I run it on a DX33. Very nicely, thankyou. 8fps in the mode I play at
>(2/3 screen window, sound FX only - no music or ambience). I can bear
>8fps.
>--
	8fps? Too slow. I have a 33, not for much longer though. One 
thing us 33 users should do is run it in screen mode 0. What the .cfg 
file says is chained, but I'm pretty sure means unchained. 33%-50% 
faster, really!
	Its the baddies that kill the framerate, and I swear this 
thing really wants more than 8 megs. I play a with a little smaller 
window, at around 12-14 fps (no monsters around or awake).
-MRR

TJ Peterson (SL...@cc.usu.edu) wrote:

[trimmed out my own post here]

: I have a 486 DX2/66, and I run at about 12-15 Frames Per Second, which I 
: consider reasonable. As for it dropping out and corrupting saves all the 
: time, there is a simple solution. Don't load up smartdrv and emm386. I 
: had these loaded originally, but once I started playing without them 
: loaded, not only did it stop locking up, but it ran faster as well. Since 
: disabling those two files, I've only had Duke lock up once in 2 weeks. 
: Hope this helps...

I don't load those drivers.  Because I run Lose 95, I boot clean when I
want to play those good old DOS games.  No TSR's, minimal device drivers,
etc.  This game really shouldn't be butting heads with a mouse driver or
sound card driver.  (Come to think of it, my CDROM driver loads too, but to
disable that would pretty stupid, seeing as games often ship on CDROM these
days.)

I really don't think a segmentation fault is what's happening.  Unless the
game has some bad code internally, there's just nothing around to fight
with it for room in memory.

--
 "A distributed system is one in which the failure of | G. Branden Robinson
  a computer you didn't even know existed can render  | Aerospace Engineering
  your own computer unusable."                        | Purdue University
                    -- Leslie Lamport                 | bra...@ecn.purdue.edu

>Exactly.  A frame rate of 15.  On my machine I seldom get frame rates
>dropping below 30, and I've seen them get into the 70's (granted, when
>there's not much refresh to do, ANYBODY can get a high frame rate).
>
>I have, however, not tried it in anything but 320x200.  I'm sure I can 
find
>a VESA mode where my machine runs glacially.
>
>Call me spoiled, but I find 15 fps to be less than tolerable.
>
If you have a VESA/VBE 2.0 compliant card (or software) you will 
probrobally get slightly higher rates. (hmm linear addressing or 
banking... I think the choice is clear, now why won't the bastards 
release how to do it to the public...)

>: I've not had it crash on me at all yet but the cga mode thing you are 
talking 
>: about is quite standard when a game crashes I know that Bullfrog games 
always 
>: return you to this type of mode when they crash out and other games 
such as 
>: micro machines do the same.
This is purely a 'do we have time to insert the crash checking and mode 
recovery code?' thing. If the game has crashed, you can assume that 
something is screwed up, and when a game crashes in pmode you're lucky 
you get back to real/v86 at all.
Much more likely to hang or triple fault.

>I presume that's because 320x200 VGA corresponds to 40x25 text mode with
>the character generator.  But I'd have to RSFM's before advancing any 
more
>detailed theories.

The character generator for mode 13 (19 in base10) is 40x25, you are 
correct.

-- 
Nick
--
Dragonball(z) FAQ http://www.eden.com/~nickm/db.html
Proud member, DBZLF. 
--
Hell is for very bad people, and the lawyers that defend them.

In article <Dn2vK...@eskimo.com>, Mark Riel <r...@eskimo.com> writes
>>>One last word: DON'T TRY to run this game on a 486DX2/66.  It must drop 75%
>>>of the frames.  You'll need a Pentium or one of those hopped-up
>>>clock-ntupled AMD 486 chips to get any performance out of this thing.
>>
>>I run it on a DX33. Very nicely, thankyou. 8fps in the mode I play at
>>(2/3 screen window, sound FX only - no music or ambience). I can bear
>>8fps.
>>--
>       8fps? Too slow. I have a 33, not for much longer though. One 

Wrong. Nothing is "too slow". Only too slow for certain people. I'd play
Duke at 4fps. I've played Screamer at 1fps and managed 33secs for the
first track, INCLUDING a powerslide through the tunnel. Beat that :).

>thing us 33 users should do is run it in screen mode 0. What the .cfg 
>file says is chained, but I'm pretty sure means unchained. 33%-50% 
>faster, really!

Try running in S3 enhanced mode. Might help.

>thing really wants more than 8 megs. I play a with a little smaller 

I've got 16, it's the gfx card that slows things up (ISA Cirrus). Ah
well, just faxed the order for the P120, bye bye Slowsville :)
--
Adam Williamson, D1M - ad...@scss.demon.co.uk
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/The_Williamsons/
Doom2: The Tyranny Levels, Insertion, Memento Mori 2

bme...@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au (Bernd Meyer) wrote:
>Adam Williamson (Ad...@scss.demon.co.uk) wrote:
>
>: I run it on a DX33. Very nicely, thankyou. 8fps in the mode I play at
>: (2/3 screen window, sound FX only - no music or ambience). I can bear
>: 8fps.
>
>I might be stupid, but:
>
>Where do you guys pull those fps figures from? I have read through all the
>docs I think, and there wasn't a single mention on how to measure these.
>
>Bernie
>

Just type dnrate when you are playing the game to get the frame rate


TJ Peterson

Branden Robinson (bra...@ecn.purdue.edu) wrote:
: an52...@anon.penet.fi wrote:

: One last word: DON'T TRY to run this game on a 486DX2/66.  It must drop 75%
: of the frames.  You'll need a Pentium or one of those hopped-up
: clock-ntupled AMD 486 chips to get any performance out of this thing.

well i tried it on my 486 dx2-80 stealth 64 dram. I used univbe  vesa 2.0 
with it and it ran silky smooth (about 18 fps... so okay not silky smooth) and
quite playable. This is with everyting turned on. With my p120 i get the same
fps in svga mode 640x480 and i think that is playable alright....


chris

In article <4g9gnq$j...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>,
Branden Robinson <bra...@ecn.purdue.edu> wrote:
>an52...@anon.penet.fi wrote:
>
>: Someone said:
>: My Opinion:DN3D is cool,but I think he looks stupid.His voice
>
>: And I AGREE ! I think Duke must be homosexual. He sure looks like a
>
>Why don't you bitch about something substantive, like:
>  1) The music/sound setup can't autodetect DMA channels for shit
>  2) The saved game thumbnails are corrupted 1/3 to 1/2 the time
>  3) Game restores occasionally bomb right out of the program
>  4) It likes to wegde machines HARD.  As in locking up the keyboard beyond
:
:
:
:
Obviously you guys are Hard Core Doomers!  It beats ALL of Id's games put 
:
together! 
:
If I remember correctly, the first release of Doom had all sorts of bugs!
:
A bug fix is reported to be already out, so why don't you give it a try 
:
before you start wining.
:
If you're trying to run the thing in 640 x 480 (SVGA) mode on a DX2-66 
:
you MUST be dreaming!  Like many of todays advanced games, Duke 3D 
:
requires LOCAL bus video, LOTS of RAM, and a FAST processor!
:
I'm runing it on on of those steroid pumped AMD chips and can't use SVGA!
:
:
:
:
my 2 cents worth!

>One last word: DON'T TRY to run this game on a 486DX2/66.  It must drop 75%
>of the frames.  You'll need a Pentium or one of those hopped-up
>clock-ntupled AMD 486 chips to get any performance out of this thing.
>
>Followups trimmed to combat the 13-year old mindset.  Not like it'll do any
>good.
>
>--
> "A distributed system is one in which the failure of | G. Branden Robinson
>  a computer you didn't even know existed can render  | Aerospace Engineering
>  your own computer unusable."                        | Purdue University
>                    -- Leslie Lamport                 | bra...@ecn.purdue.edu

	I don't quite agree with your statement here.  I been running 
(and playing, for that matter) Duke3d on a 486/66 and it has ran 
BEAUTIFULLY!  In fact, I'd say much nicer and smoother than DoomII ever 
was.  I just did as suggested and boot completly clean and I am even able 
to open up to full screen mode without any sluggishness.  :)  so much for 
pentiums :)

ni...@eden.com (Nick) wrote:
>>"getting a better computer" -- mayhaps you'd like to send me the money 
>to
>>do so.  The point is that games should be designed for a variety of 
>platforms.  
>>Mine is hardly unusual, in any case.  The problem lies in software.  If 
>the
>>answer to all software bugs was hardware replacement, all software 
>releases
>>would end with ".0".  
>Man I would love that :>
>"What, my game only gets 10 fps? Well, its obvious you need a Xonix..."
>
>>: >One last word: DON'T TRY to run this game on a 486DX2/66.  It must 
>drop 75%
>>: >of the frames.  You'll need a Pentium or one of those hopped-up
>>: >clock-ntupled AMD 486 chips to get any performance out of this thing.
>>
>>: I run it on a DX33. Very nicely, thankyou. 8fps in the mode I play at
>>: (2/3 screen window, sound FX only - no music or ambience). I can bear
>>: 8fps.
>>
>>*EIGHT* fps?  Read my reply to the other gentleman from the UK.  Maybe 
>I'm
>>spoiled, but I like being on full screen, high detail, with full 
>ambience,
>>music, duke talk, shadows, etc. etc.  And I still seldom dip below 30
>>fps.  If you can live with 8fps, more power to ya.
>If someone can play well at 8 fps, I would be very scared to take them on 
>in DukeMatch if they had a 24 fps machine....
>
>>I do have one more complaint:
>>
>>5) Has anyone else noticed some rather primitive sound-sourcing?  For
>>instance, stand next to a roaring fire -- it comes out equally from both
>>speakers -- it doesn't matter if the blaze is to your left or right.  I
>>thought Descent had this right with fans.
>Well, when you're busy RPGing the hell out of something, the exact 
>location of secondary sounds really doesn't matter. Its nice, but not 
>very important.
>
>What really bugs me is DukeMatch....
>
>apart from a lot of desync errors, the game bombed a LOT when we had 4 
>people. it was fun as hell, but I noticed several computer reboots 
>(triple faulting) and a lot of hangs, and the aforemention desyncs.... we 
>did similiar stuff with Doom and Descent, which also had sync problems at 
>highly variably points, but never at anywhere near 1/4 of this level.
>
>
>-- 
>Nick
>--
>Dragonball(z) FAQ http://www.eden.com/~nickm/db.html
>Proud member, DBZLF. 
>--
>Hell is for very bad people, and the lawyers that defend them.
>

Did you make sure you disabled Smartdrv, emm386, and other like devices? 
These will cause lots of crashing, but once I took them out, I've had 
virtually no crashes...
TJ Peterson

wni...@vanbc.wimsey.com (William Robert Night) writes:

>Bernd Meyer (bme...@bruce.cs.monash.edu.au) wrote:
: Adam Williamson (Ad...@scss.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: : I run it on a DX33. Very nicely, thankyou. 8fps in the mode I play at
: Where do you guys pull those fps figures from? I have read through all the
: docs I think, and there wasn't a single mention on how to measure these.

>type DNRATE and it will return the framerate

But keep in mind that it show something like:
  17
  0
in other words, two numbers. SOmetimes someome with a lame computer
like a 486/33 that has 6 frames/second starts boasting here 'my PC
is cool since I can plan DN3D at 60 frames a second, d00d !@!*(@&'.
He doesn't realise that 7 doesn't mean 70 !
                        0 

Rob
--
      -=*=-	| Across 50 states of mind, I didn't feel inclined. You waited
  Rob J. Nauta	| yesterday, I didn't come your way. Now time is moving on,
 r...@xs4all.nl	| I know it won't be long.  Till I'm shuffling away, with
      -=*=-	| nothing more to say. (Ride - 'Going blank again')

:>>One last word: DON'T TRY to run this game on a 486DX2/66.  It must drop 75%
:>>of the frames.  You'll need a Pentium or one of those hopped-up
:>>clock-ntupled AMD 486 chips to get any performance out of this thing.
:>>
:>	I don't quite agree with your statement here.  I been running 
:>(and playing, for that matter) Duke3d on a 486/66 and it has ran 
:>BEAUTIFULLY!  In fact, I'd say much nicer and smoother than DoomII ever 
:>was.  I just did as suggested and boot completly clean and I am even able 
:>to open up to full screen mode without any sluggishness.  :)  so much for 
:>pentiums :)

I read these, and decided to try the game for laughs on my word processing 
machine.  It's a Cyrix 486DLC-40 (FPU, Diamond Speedstar64 (ISA) 8meg) and 
while it *certainly* wasn't as responsive as my DX2-80 with 16meg, it was 
playable.  And with only a 14" monitor on it (as opposed to the 17" on the 
80) I wouldn't want to play it at much more than 320x200 on there anyway.  I 
don't think people with low-end machines should be dissuaded from trying it, 
after all, if they're used to their machines, they don't EXPECT blazing 
performance.

On 19 Feb 1996 09:43:22 GMT, bra...@ecn.purdue.edu (Branden Robinson)
wrote:


>Why don't you bitch about something substantive, like:
>  1) The music/sound setup can't autodetect DMA channels for shit
>  2) The saved game thumbnails are corrupted 1/3 to 1/2 the time
>  3) Game restores occasionally bomb right out of the program
>  4) It likes to wegde machines HARD.  As in locking up the keyboard beyond
>all hope of a three-finger salute.  Once I even crashed into some debug
>code that blew my monitor into some half-assed 40x25 CGA text mode, rang
>the speaker bell like it was a fire alarm, and dumped the processor
>state to LPT1:, complete with the register contents.
>
>I guess these guys were so busy talking to their lawyers about how
>"creating your own levels or reverse engineering the software" (i.e.,
>writing your own level editors, sound/graphics extraction and replacement
>utilites, etc.) is "a violation of the vendor's rights" that they couldn't
>be bothered to debug their software.  Bullshit.  Id let the kids run
>hog wild with DOOM and they made a buttload of money.
>
>Mayhaps that's why Id and Apogee went their separate ways...
>
>Looks like a beta test to me.  Once they work the bugs out, it should be
>tolerable, though.
>
>One last word: DON'T TRY to run this game on a 486DX2/66.  It must drop 75%
>of the frames.  You'll need a Pentium or one of those hopped-up
>clock-ntupled AMD 486 chips to get any performance out of this thing.
>
>Followups trimmed to combat the 13-year old mindset.  Not like it'll do any
>good.
>
>--
> "A distributed system is one in which the failure of | G. Branden Robinson
>  a computer you didn't even know existed can render  | Aerospace Engineering
>  your own computer unusable."                        | Purdue University
>                    -- Leslie Lamport                 | bra...@ecn.purdue.edu


It runs just fine on my 486DX2/66 and I've not had one single problem
you mention above...what kinda jerry rigged set-up are YOU running?

Zoso (zo...@xmission.com) wrote:
[dude quoted a 50+ line post to add a 2 line reply]

: It runs just fine on my 486DX2/66 and I've not had one single problem
: you mention above...what kinda jerry rigged set-up are YOU running?

It's since been pointed out to me that there is something amiss with the
machine in question.  BTFOM what it is, though -- Doom and Descent run fine
on that machine.  Maybe DUKE doesn't like his SCSI controller.  I was
suprised at the poor performance, seeing as the person in question has 16
megs of RAM to play with...

ObGC*: As for my machine, I bought it from a guy who was selling computers
out of the trunk of his car.  Why?  Is there a problem with that?

--
 "Whatever else it does, `SUMP PUMP BACKUP ALARM      | G. Branden Robinson
  SILENCER SWITCH' is a phrase that not only          | Aerospace Engineering
  sings, but packs its own rhythm section!"           | Purdue University
                    -- Veronica Sullivan              | bra...@ecn.purdue.edu

* Obligatory Gullibility Check

zo...@xmission.com (Zoso) writes:

>>be bothered to debug their software.  Bullshit.  Id let the kids run
>>hog wild with DOOM and they made a buttload of money.

Just how much excactly is a buttload ? 
50 Million ?

Joachim Loeblein, ud...@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de
I Fear Nothing.

an52...@anon.penet.fi wrote:
>
> 
> 
> Someone said:
> My Opinion:DN3D is cool,but I think he looks stupid.His voice
> is dumb as hell too,they should have had a voice that sounded like
> Arny's,or maybe that guy on the Simpsons that sounds like Arny.
> Anyways a goofy voice would of made the game better.
> 
> And I AGREE ! I think Duke must be homosexual. He sure looks like a
> faggot, fresh from admiring himself after bodybuilding ! I find it
> hard to believe someone that looks as clean as that can be a hero.
> I Think 3drealms should give him a higher voice, something like
> 'ooh I'm so pretty, lick my love pump, big boy'...
> 
> Duke hater
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