🚀 go-pugleaf

JAB <nowa...@feckoff.com> wrote in news:BM7zA.283714$0k4.72007@fx37.am4:
> 
> Overall I'm very much enjoying the game and if you enjoyed PS:T you 
> should enjoy this one.
> 
> 

tyvm for this.

Mark.

-- 
Clotho, Lachesis, Atropos         --        the only sysadmins that matter

Thanks JAB for a really good review .

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")  mouse (Egg n Chips)
 

On 19/03/2017 01:52, Trimble Bracegirdle wrote:
> Thanks JAB for a really good review .
>
> (\__/)
> (='.'=)
> (")_(")  mouse (Egg n Chips)
>

The more I play it the more I like it. I've got a bunch of side quests 
to do and unlike a lot of games where my main interest is what reward 
will I get for this they are actually intriguing to see how they pan out 
and how you solve them. They also, were practical, have the 
good/neutral/bad options so you have a choice. One of the things that 
tends to annoy me about lots of RPG's is that you're almost forced to be 
the good guy/gal to both advance the plot and just as importantly 
advance your character. Saying that some of the options are a bit sign 
posted but I suppose that's to be expected.

Some of the downsides with the game overall are the map and the 
graphics. The map is ok for the local area but seems to lack a few 
features that you might expect. There isn't a way to switch it to a 
global view for navigation or fast travel (you'll have to make you own 
mini-map of how the areas interconnect - did anyone mention how spoilt 
we've become?), you can't add your own notes and you can't pan around 
the map to aid movement. I can see this becoming a bit of a pain as the 
game progresses as you have to go through the same areas again and again.

The graphics, well I'm not one for shiny, shiny but although the 
backgrounds are often nice but they also come across as a bit basic at 
times. No biggy to be honest as you spend more time reading text than 
looking at the backdrops.

On 3/18/2017 3:14 AM, JAB wrote:
 > I've only played a few hours of this but thought it was worth giving a a
 > first impressions so here goes.
 >
 > If you've not heard of it before it's touted as the spiritual successor
 > to Planescape:Torment which has both its plus and minus points. The
 > positives are that you're trying to recreate one of the most famous and
 > loved RPG's of all time and the minuses are exactly the same. This comes
 > through in the reviews where the critics tend to be very positive but
 > the users are somewhat of a mixed bag. Personally I think it should be
 > considered as a game in its own right and not marked down because its
 > not PS:T.
 >
 > So what's it all about? The setting is one based on a futuristic
 > sci-fi/fantasy world, based on an existing table top RPG, and is
 > suitably weird enough to make it somewhat different from you standard
 > RPG. You play the role of an outcast which is a discarded body from a
 > god reborn. The story, well so far anyway, is based around you and
 > that's something I very much like. To many RPG's revolve around your
 > part as a heroic supporting role of the bigger story but here it
 > revolves around you.
 >
 > It also plays out very differently in that its very much focused on the
 > story and not combat. This is something I like as I'm very much into the
 > experience and not the 'stats' of how to create the ultimate character
 > that once you've got half way through the game can solve any problem
 > through might. What that does mean is that there's lot's of reading and
 > speech trees. This I feel could be a big stumbling block for a lot of
 > players.
 >
 > Obviously having only played a few hours I can't really say that much
 > about the quests/interactions but so far they do have that ambiguity and
 > intrigue that I very much enjoy. It's yet to be seen just how much these
 > interactions have later but at least they do seem to give you the option
 > of role-playing a character that isn't the nice guy, or gal.
 >
 > There are of course companions but I've yet to really form an opinion on
 > how fleshed out these are but trying to beat Mort is a tough act to 
follow.
 >
 > The nuts and bolts. The character building seems to be very much pared
 > down compared to many with only three stats (might, speed and intellect)
 > and three classes - warrior, rouge and mage but by different names. You
 > then have both skills and abilities and although I've not had that much
 > chance to play with them the range of seems more limited than normal and
 > when advancing you only get to add a single 'thing'. As for the lack of
 > combat this suits me as I prefer playing a character and not a walking
 > stats board.
 >
 > Two interesting mechanisms are use of you stats in tasks and alignment.
 > The former allows you to spend points of your abilities to improve your
 > chances at tasks and these can then be replenished through consumable
 > items or resting. The alignment mechanism is based around coloured tides
 > and they way you interact will raise a dominate tide which then changes
 > how people interact with you. I do like this idea as in many RPG's your
 > alignment is basically meaningless.
 >
 > Overall I'm very much enjoying the game and if you enjoyed PS:T you
 > should enjoy this one.
 >

I've had my eye on this for some time, but unlike almost everyone else I 
didn't like PST at all.  Which seems sad to me as by all accounts being 
a huge D&D player & lover of RPGs I should've loved it.   I tried 3 
times but just couldn't ever finish it.  I like Mort.  That's about it. 
It just seemed too much like reading a disjointed book with a really 
clunky interface.  I found the combat to be horrifically bad, and I just 
need some decent combat.

I wonder how this new one holds up in that regard?

- Justisaur

> I've had my eye on this for some time, but unlike almost everyone else I
> didn't like PST at all.  Which seems sad to me as by all accounts being
> a huge D&D player & lover of RPGs I should've loved it.   I tried 3
> times but just couldn't ever finish it.  I like Mort.  That's about it.
> It just seemed too much like reading a disjointed book with a really
> clunky interface.  I found the combat to be horrifically bad, and I just
> need some decent combat.
>
> I wonder how this new one holds up in that regard?
>
> - Justisaur

I'd steer clear of this one then as combat is even less relevant here 
(I've played about five hours and only just entered the first combat and 
even that I'm trying to avoid) as it's really all about the story!

I'm quite the opposite on the combat side and too many encounters starts 
to bore me very quickly especially if you need to max/min your 
characters to progress. It's what put me of D:OS. Far too much of it was 
visit this area and slaughter everything you come across. Strangely 
enough I think that was one of the failings of PS:T. The end section 
seem far too combat focused as though they'd run out of story-lines by then.

It's probably one of the reasons I changed from AD&D to Warhammer 
Roleplay. The latter just seemed far better set-up for role playing and 
not being a combat simulator.

Justisaur  <just...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I've had my eye on this for some time, but unlike almost everyone else I 
>didn't like PST at all.  Which seems sad to me as by all accounts being 
>a huge D&D player & lover of RPGs I should've loved it.   I tried 3 
>times but just couldn't ever finish it.  I like Mort.  That's about it. 
>It just seemed too much like reading a disjointed book with a really 
>clunky interface.  I found the combat to be horrifically bad, and I just 
>need some decent combat.

While I liked Planescape: Torment overall, I did think it was overrated.
You really had to like the characters to the point where everything
else doesn't matter as much to think it was great game.  As I recall
while the combat wasn't much write home about, but there was some good
bits here and there.  I remember the fight against the inteligent rats
being challenging, and as JAB mentioned the last quarter of the game is
mostly one long linear run of combat, with a big wall of text thrown in
the middle.

					Ross Ridge

-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //	  

On 21/03/2017 22:32, Ross Ridge wrote:
> Justisaur  <just...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I've had my eye on this for some time, but unlike almost everyone else I
>> didn't like PST at all.  Which seems sad to me as by all accounts being
>> a huge D&D player & lover of RPGs I should've loved it.   I tried 3
>> times but just couldn't ever finish it.  I like Mort.  That's about it.
>> It just seemed too much like reading a disjointed book with a really
>> clunky interface.  I found the combat to be horrifically bad, and I just
>> need some decent combat.
>
> While I liked Planescape: Torment overall, I did think it was overrated.
> You really had to like the characters to the point where everything
> else doesn't matter as much to think it was great game.  As I recall
> while the combat wasn't much write home about, but there was some good
> bits here and there.  I remember the fight against the inteligent rats
> being challenging, and as JAB mentioned the last quarter of the game is
> mostly one long linear run of combat, with a big wall of text thrown in
> the middle.
>

I suppose it wouldn't be the first game, nor the last, where it looks as 
though the devs run out of time/money for the end section after such a 
strong beginning. Saying that I still class PS:T as one the the best 
RPG's of all time mainly because it had such an original setting and 
combat took a back seat to story telling.

Too many RPG's fail on both accounts, for my taste, and don't get me 
started on 'action' RPG's. For me the driver for playing these type of 
games is to take part in a story and there's not that many around that 
do that.

On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 10:05:31 +0000, JAB <nowa...@feckoff.com> wrote:

>Too many RPG's fail on both accounts, for my taste, and don't get me 
>started on 'action' RPG's. For me the driver for playing these type of 
>games is to take part in a story and there's not that many around that 
>do that.

The great advantage of the RPG is that you can like one kind of RPG
and dislike another. I think the RPG genre succeeds more for this
reason then any other. Fallout is an RPG. Planescape Torment is an
RPG. Diablo is an RPG. Wizardry is an RPG. You can like one or more of
those types and dismiss the others entirely.. and still be a fan of
RPGs.

I personally do not look for great storylines in video games. Movies,
television and books do that better. They will always do that better.
I do read several novels a year so maybe I am getting my storyline fix
there. I do not want to read a video game. I want to play the damn
thing.

 I don't think I would like Planescape Torment. But even with a
novel's worth of text, I did like Ultima 7. A lot. So even if the
walls of text in Planescape don't turn me off, I think the strangeness
of that world would in the end.

On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 12:17:30 -0700, Justisaur <just...@gmail.com>
wrote:


>I've had my eye on this for some time, but unlike almost everyone else I 
>didn't like PST at all.  Which seems sad to me as by all accounts being 
>a huge D&D player & lover of RPGs I should've loved it.   I tried 3 
>times but just couldn't ever finish it.  I like Mort.  That's about it. 
>It just seemed too much like reading a disjointed book with a really 
>clunky interface.  I found the combat to be horrifically bad, and I just 
>need some decent combat.

I totally understand where you come from. Planescape: Torment is an
incredibly slow burner, and the first quarter - maybe even the first
half of the game - isn't much fun. It doesn't help that it drops you
in this strange world where everybody is using fantastical slang (the
"Cant") all the time, nor that the game seems to lack an antagonist
and gives you little direction. Instead, you are seemingly dumped into
a wide-open world with little idea where to go; your first few
missions seem more like side-quest adventures and are completely
unfulfilling. The combat is a bore and the loot you get in the slums
is unexciting trash. The first few NPC companions you pick up (Mort
excluded) are also the least interesting as well.

The game does pick up, but it's only far into the game that it really
starts to become interesting (it left "tedious bore" once I met
Fall-from-Grace, the "lawful good" succubus (!), became "really
interesting" after I met  Ravel Puzzlewell the witch in her swamp
shack, and "damn good" by the ending. But it's really hard to get over
that initial hump - it is the reasons I haven't re-played the game
very often, even though I know it becomes much better later on - and I
am sure that many players gave up on the game long before they got to
the good parts. 

It's also why I am holding off on Numenera; doubtlessly the world is
fascinating and well-detailed, the characters deep and the story
thought-provoking, but I suspect it is also a huge time-sink with
lack-luster combat and worry that its intial part will be more
tiresome grind - even if it is necessary to the development of the
story - than I want to invest in right now. 

(It also doesn't help that it uses a top-down "isometric" viewpoint; I
used to be a huge fan of that but ever since Gothic I've come more to
appreciate the first- or over-the-shoulder third-person viewpoint
since it gives me a better feel for the world; top-down views,
although arguably better for managing groups of adventurers, feel too
detatched and clinical).

On 3/21/2017 3:32 PM, Ross Ridge wrote:
> Justisaur  <just...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I've had my eye on this for some time, but unlike almost everyone else I
>> didn't like PST at all.  Which seems sad to me as by all accounts being
>> a huge D&D player & lover of RPGs I should've loved it.   I tried 3
>> times but just couldn't ever finish it.  I like Mort.  That's about it.
>> It just seemed too much like reading a disjointed book with a really
>> clunky interface.  I found the combat to be horrifically bad, and I just
>> need some decent combat.
>
> While I liked Planescape: Torment overall, I did think it was overrated.
> You really had to like the characters to the point where everything
> else doesn't matter as much to think it was great game.  As I recall
> while the combat wasn't much write home about, but there was some good
> bits here and there.  I remember the fight against the inteligent rats
> being challenging, and as JAB mentioned the last quarter of the game is
> mostly one long linear run of combat, with a big wall of text thrown in
> the middle.
>

Ha, well I never got as far as the last quarter then.  The Cerebral Rats 
was the only good fight I remember either.  The fights were just far too 
easy, pop into your inventory and use as many bandages as you want, I 
expect you'd start looking like a mummy.  I remember killing wandering 
Type III Demons just because I could.

- Justisaur

On 3/22/2017 6:39 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Mar 2017 12:17:30 -0700, Justisaur <just...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>> I've had my eye on this for some time, but unlike almost everyone else I
>> didn't like PST at all.  Which seems sad to me as by all accounts being
>> a huge D&D player & lover of RPGs I should've loved it.   I tried 3
>> times but just couldn't ever finish it.  I like Mort.  That's about it.
>> It just seemed too much like reading a disjointed book with a really
>> clunky interface.  I found the combat to be horrifically bad, and I just
>> need some decent combat.
>
> I totally understand where you come from. Planescape: Torment is an
> incredibly slow burner, and the first quarter - maybe even the first
> half of the game - isn't much fun. It doesn't help that it drops you
> in this strange world where everybody is using fantastical slang (the
> "Cant") all the time, nor that the game seems to lack an antagonist
> and gives you little direction. Instead, you are seemingly dumped into
> a wide-open world with little idea where to go; your first few
> missions seem more like side-quest adventures and are completely
> unfulfilling. The combat is a bore and the loot you get in the slums
> is unexciting trash. The first few NPC companions you pick up (Mort
> excluded) are also the least interesting as well.

Part of it might have been it didn't seem that fantastical to me, as I 
was too familiar with Planescape from the D&D side, and never found it 
particularly a great setting.  The Cant was ridiculously overdone there 
too.

> The game does pick up, but it's only far into the game that it really
> starts to become interesting (it left "tedious bore" once I met
> Fall-from-Grace, the "lawful good" succubus (!), became "really
> interesting" after I met  Ravel Puzzlewell the witch in her swamp
> shack, and "damn good" by the ending. But it's really hard to get over
> that initial hump - it is the reasons I haven't re-played the game
> very often, even though I know it becomes much better later on - and I
> am sure that many players gave up on the game long before they got to
> the good parts.

My last attempt I did get to the succubus.  I also didn't find that very 
inventive as my players in D&D did that ages before with a Type V and a 
Helm of Opposite Alignment, and I'm sure that wasn't even the time I'd 
read of that sort of thing. It was about then I got stuck and figured I 
had to read all the books lying around and got bored of that.

Maybe I was just too close to it.  I'm not sure how other long time D&D 
players feel about the game, as I rarely hear it mentioned.  Baldur's 
Gate gets a lot more mention, but it's another one I don't like (other 
than the party NPCs "Go for the eyes Boo!" & "Stop touching me!") due to 
too many changes from my old favorite gold box games, interminable 
walking around through near featureless terrain, and poorly done 
'real-time with pause' combat.

- Justisaur

Mike S.  <Mik...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>I personally do not look for great storylines in video games. Movies,
>television and books do that better. They will always do that better.
>I do read several novels a year so maybe I am getting my storyline fix
>there. I do not want to read a video game. I want to play the damn
>thing.

I never looked to video games for stories either, but I don't mind it when
they do manage to come up with something decent.  Though this reminds me
that there was someone here on Useset that was a big fan of Planescape:
Torment, saying how great the story was, but had to admit it after reading
a "book" someone had made of it, made using the game's actual dialogue,
the writing wasn't that good.

> I don't think I would like Planescape Torment. But even with a
>novel's worth of text, I did like Ultima 7. A lot. So even if the
>walls of text in Planescape don't turn me off, I think the strangeness
>of that world would in the end.

I should point out when I mentioned a wall of text in PS:T, I was refering
a particularly long speech by one character at one point in the game.
Otherwise I didn't have a problem with the amount of text in the game,
but this one case was just ridiculous.  I don't know if I've ever seen
as long of a dialogue sequence by a single character in a game, certainly
nothing close that wasn't optional.

						Ross Ridge

-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //	  

> Maybe I was just too close to it.  I'm not sure how other long time D&D
> players feel about the game, as I rarely hear it mentioned.  Baldur's
> Gate gets a lot more mention, but it's another one I don't like (other
> than the party NPCs "Go for the eyes Boo!" & "Stop touching me!") due to
> too many changes from my old favorite gold box games, interminable
> walking around through near featureless terrain, and poorly done
> 'real-time with pause' combat.
>

I liked both BG's but much preferred the first as it was obviously 
something quite different for when it was released and you were much 
lower level to start with. One of the reasons I went off AD&D was that 
it quickly became more like a strategy game as you progressed the levels 
and less, to me at least, a role-playing game. Obviously what 
modules/setting you played has a role in this which is why I found 
Warhammer RPG for more interesting. What also helped was that we had a 
policy of don't look at the rules that's for the GM to sort out so that 
let players get on with playing their character and not 'optimising' 
what they did for the best outcome.

> I never looked to video games for stories either, but I don't mind it when
> they do manage to come up with something decent.
>

It's something I've found more and more enjoyable in games so I've 
played a lot of the TellTale 'games' and thought Firewatch was really 
rather good.

On Wed, 22 Mar 2017 14:07:47 -0700, Justisaur <just...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Maybe I was just too close to it.  I'm not sure how other long time D&D 
>players feel about the game, as I rarely hear it mentioned.  Baldur's 
>Gate gets a lot more mention, but it's another one I don't like (other 
>than the party NPCs "Go for the eyes Boo!" & "Stop touching me!") due to 
>too many changes from my old favorite gold box games, interminable 
>walking around through near featureless terrain, and poorly done 
>'real-time with pause' combat.
>
>- Justisaur

The gold box games are some of my favorites but they were dated by the
time Baldur's Gate came along.

 I remember when I played Fallout and I was fighting rats and how slow
turn based combat felt in that instance. I much prefer BG's combat
system. It definitely wasn't perfect, but Fallout showed me that
turned based combat isn't either.

Ross Ridge wrote:
> I never looked to video games for stories either, but I don't mind it when
> they do manage to come up with something decent.

JAB  <nowa...@feckoff.com> wrote:
>It's something I've found more and more enjoyable in games so I've 
>played a lot of the TellTale 'games' and thought Firewatch was really 
>rather good.

I have a low enough opinion of the stories in games that I've stayed away
from adventure games like these, as they pretty much entirely depedent
on their story.  Story is more of an added extra, while I expect a bare
minimum in RPGs and certain other kinds of games, I'm mostly hoping the
story doesn't detract from the experience, rather than be the experience.

					Ross Ridge

-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //