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Started by Spalls Hurgenson
Mon, 03 Jul 2017 01:15
What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Spalls Hurgenson
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 01:15
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 01:15
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Yes, yes, yes, I know, I know. This thread is very late. In my defense I've had a busy few days, not helped the least by the sunburn covering three quarters of my body (it's not so much as its painful as that sunburns make me sleepy). But here's the thread started at last. This month I've either played very few games, or achieved a record high number, depending on how you count things. Much of my time was spent delving into the intricacies of DOSBox and ancient DOS gaming. Although I only finished three games to completion, I touched at least sixty other titles. Some only occupied my time for a few minutes, while others entertained me for hours and hours. The DOS environment itself was almost as enthralling, as I relearned the "skills" of the command-line, BATCH files and Windows .INI files. -------------------- Short and Sweet -------------------- * The Orion Conspiracy (new) * Indiana Jones & the Fate of Atlantis (replay) * The Last of Us (replay) * DOSBox!!!! TL; DR ---------- * The Orion Conspiracy (new) If I were pressed to list a few of my favorite games ever, 1995's "Mission Critical" by Legend Entertainment would rank near the top. A beautifully illustrated, well-written game with solid puzzles and an excellent story, it was a mature and thought-provoking sci-fi adventure; a stark contrast to its competitors, which too often relied on trope-filled fantasy and comedy situations with inane and illogical challenges. But "Mission Critical" wasn't the only adventure game released that year which promised a more adult take on sci-fi than the usual space-opera that was an all too commonly-used genre in computer gaming; there was also Domark's "The Orion Conspiracy". Less focused, the ad-copy promised, on battles between good and evil or aliens vs humans, it was a more grounded story that starts simply enough when a grieving father arrives at a distant space station to investigate the death of his recently-deceased son. "The Orion Conspiracy" came and went with very little splash; it got poor reviews and disappeared from store shelves quite soon after it was released. Yet it was a game that I have long wanted to play, and after more than two decades of (not-very-intensive) searching, I was fortunate enough to get my hands on a copy. Initial impressions were not kind. Despite promises of "CD quality music", I never got the game to output its soundtrack as anything but MIDI. Now, this is not necessarily a bad thing; a properly written MIDI soundtrack can be quite impressive and be far more reactive to the gameplay than Redbook audio, but this game's music boasted neither of these. Even with a wavetable soundcard and a decent patch-set, the game sounded little better than the peeps and pops you might have heard on an ancient Adlib FM synthesizer. It wasn't even very good music; just a dull collection of droning melodies that made me want to quickly drop the volume so I wouldn't have to listen to it anymore. The game did boast full voice-acting and the quality of the wave files was acceptable, but the acting itself was poor; stilted, and full of mispronunciations and weirdly emphasized. The background artwork was acceptable and in some places even quite interesting (at least when viewed through the filter of a 1995 gamer) but the character sprites were badly detailed and poorly animated, looking little better than what you might have seen from a game five years its junior. Unfortunately, the gameplay itself was little better. Its 30 or so characters had very detailed back-stories, but all this history was wasted by the terrible voice-acting and lack of any real interactivity. The game was a more "mature" adventure only in the fact that some of its characters cursed like sailors, but otherwise it failed to be thought provoking in any way. The puzzles were fairly mundane, but too often I was left without any direction; solving the puzzles wasn't the hard part, but finding them was. The map layout was horrid; the space station where the action took place was divided into multiple floors, but access to the different floors required constant backtracking to the elevators scattered on level 2. Plus, in the end, the plot devolved to yet-another-alien-invasion storyline. Sometimes anticipation of a game is far, far more enjoyable than actually playing the damn thing. * Indiana Jones & the Fate of Atlantis (replay) Viewed from a distance, 1992's "Fate of Atlantis" is an unexceptional game; it's a run-of-the-mill adventure game from the mid-90s with all the usual tropes and problems those titles. Its puzzles were often illogical "guess-what-the-developer-is-thinking" type-challenges, with a fairly nonsensical story requiring an unfortunate amount of backtracking. Visually, the game is run-of-the-mill, but not without charm. Much of its background art lacks in detail and character, but there are a few scenes that are quite memorable. The animation is well done and varied, and the tiny sprites are surprisingly emotive given how few pixels are used in their creation. While the soundtrack - MIDI based, as was common for games of its era - lacks the weight of a more modern soundtrack, the game utilized the available technology fairly well and the music - never annoying - supported the story and action far more often than it hindered it. The puzzles were not the greatest - and some, such as the interminable hot-air balloon sequence - were obvious padding - but many felt natural extensions of the current situation. Some did suffer by requiring the player to repeatedly backtrack between two or three locations to find the necessary item (often by trial and error, because the solution was randomized). Yet these faults were counter-balanced by the fact that the game offered three distinct story-lines (they three stories rejoined near the end); quantity in this case more than made up for a slight deficiency in quality. The voice-acting was surprisingly good for a game produced in the mid 90s, too. "Fate of Atlantis" will never top my "favorite adventures ever" list, but its decent production values and variety of gameplay make up for the fact that it doesn't really evolve the genre in any way. It was a solid title well worth revisiting. * The Last of Us (replay) I didn't get very far with this game, but it's all my fault. Having played through the game two or three times before, I thought I was ready for the hardest difficulty level. It turns out that while I can fight and sneak my way through the game that way, the constant challenge and reloading drained the fun right out of the experience. "The Last of Us'" strength is in the character of its world and its protagonists, and that is lost when one is constantly forced to focus on the enemies rather than the beautiful scenery or the tiny, optional interactions between the protagonists. Playing on hard also made me realize how shallow the actual gameplay of the game was; with its lack of variety in monsters and puzzles. I struggled through about half of the game before I just finally tired of the whole thing and decided to move on. I know one day I'll give "The Last of Us" another try, but I'll do it with the difficulty cranked down so I can experience the game's strengths - its world-building - rather than its weaker elements, such as its gameplay. * DOSBox!!!! I've maintained a DOSBox installation on my hard-drive for more than a decade. DOSBox is an invaluable tool for a PC gamer who wants to re-experience the highs - and the lows - of old-school gaming. I'm thrilled that it's been taken up as a middle-ware tool by many publishers so they can re-release their older titles. But I personally prefer having a full DOSBox installation rather than relying on DOSBox as an invisible shim used to get old-school games running on modern hardware. So this month I spent a lot of time playing around in DOSBox. While I did use it to play numerous games, I had as much fun fiddling with the DOSBox subsystems and revisiting the ancient DOS environment. I successfully got the Gravis and Roland emulation working. I installed Windows 3.11 and 4DOS. I reinstalled ancient DOS shells and word-processors (the latter subsequently allowing me to read documents I had written 20 years ago). I created an overly complicated DOS games launcher through the power of DOS Batch file scripting. I had fun - yes, fun - messing around with IRQ, DMA and I/O port settings. And I played games. Currently my installed DOS games are an eclectic and impressive selection. While I didn't spend too much time playing on any one of these games individually, all of them provided me a degree of nostalgic entertainment. Alphabetically, these games included Bioforge, Bards Tale (1-3, although I spent the most time on Bards Tale 1), Bill Elliot's NASCAR Challenge, Commander Keen, Crusader No Remorse, Cybermage Darklight Awakening (awful!), Darklands, Destruction Derby, Doom, Dragon Wars (a game I loved so much I wrote fanfic for it back in the day), F-117 Stealth Fighter 2.0, Falcon 3.0, Flashback, Hexen, Ironman Stewart's Super Offroad Racing, Lemmings 1 & 2, Mission Critical, Master of Orion 1 & 2, Need For Speed Special Ed, Nuclear War, One Must Fall 2097, Overkill, Populous 2, Pacific Strike, Scorched Earth (shareware; I really should get around to registering it one of these days :), SimCity and SimCity 2000, Star Trek 25th Anniversary, Star Trek A Final Unity, Star Wars Dark Forces, Strike Commander, Syndicate, Syndicate Wars, Terra Nova Strike Force Centauri, Terminator 2029, Ultima 5, Ultima 7, Ultima 7.5, Ultima 8, Underworld 1 & 2, 'Vette, Whiplash, Wing Commander 1, 2, Privateer and Armada, Wings of Glory, Wolfenstein 3D and X-Com UFO Defense (whew!). Fortunately, I had either imaged the original floppy disks or was able to transfer the files over from the GOG.com installations (although in a few cases I had to go out and re-purchase one of these classic games). A number of them proved troublesome to install but that, after all, was half the fun. Many of the games, admittedly, have not aged well. Almost of the games that used the PC speaker for their sound effects are practically unplayable as far as I am concerned, regardless of how entertaining the rest of the game might be (I'm looking in your direction in particular, 'Vette!). I was surprised at how difficult many of the games were; truly we modern gamers have been spoiled both by varying difficulty levels and iterative play-testing. Control schemes were almost universally awful; even when they didn't require me to contort my hand into uncomfortable positions, they were rarely as responsive as required by the quick-paced action. But a few games remained remarkably enjoyable (Need For Speed SE, for instance, kept me wonderfully enthralled for hours and hours). I don't know how often I'll be returning to my DOSBox installation, but I love that I have such a huge selection available at my fingertips, all the more so since the whole thing weighs in at a surprisingly light 10GB (less than the 1/3 the space required by one modern game!). There are so many classic and often forgotten titles from yesteryear and it's always a blast to revisit these archaic experiences, both to enjoy the games themselves and to see how far our hobby has advanced since those early years. -------------------- So my month was full; I hope yours was equally so. Let's find out. What have you been playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Rin Stowleigh
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 10:15
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 10:15
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On Sun, 02 Jul 2017 21:15:22 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson <spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote: >What have you been playing... IN JUNE 2017? Far Cry Primal - Surprisingly good, and I recommend it. 2 more days left on the 50% off sale. Argo - A free to play tactical shooter, it's an Arma 3 conversion that limits the battlefield to a smaller space with specific team objectives, making it a worthwhile game rather than an open-world mess like the Arma series has always been. Best part about it is that performance is much better than the Arma games, likely due to the limited playable area on the maps. Personally I think the guys at Bohemia would do well to focus on games like this, rather than the overly ambitious games with huge maps and insanely complex control schemes.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: rms
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 13:13
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 13:13
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>What have you been playing... IN JUNE 2017? Beyond Good & Evil Judging by wiki articles, Michel Ancel had large ambitions for an open-world BG&E game with much free exploration, which ended up being constrained and squeezed down for consoles, but I had a great time with what his team released. I'll just note things that stood out for me in my playthrough -- not in any attempt to analyze the game, but more as an acknowledgement or celebration: First was the female protagonist running an orphanage with multi-species kids, taking pictures of animals, with large colorful powerups: Very approachable and cute. The UI -- I was very pleased with the circular wheel menus, with their construction-paper-cutout design, and the alphanumeric code entry expanding-spiral layout was a delight to use. Next is the cosmopolitan nature of the planet Hillys, and how unsurprising and normal is its presentation. The casablancan Akuda bar, moraccan Pedestrian District, jamaican Mammago Garage, chinese Ming-Tsu's and their delightful musical themes. There's a generosity of spirit and community shown here that is central to this game's appeal I think. The plot and gameplay (no spoilers). It's a good fairly straightforward plot, where one is tasked with Uncovering the Truth, with a nice ending twist that presumably would have been expanded upon in the projected trilogy's sequels. The actual gameplay has a nice mix of stealth, exploration, and combat, which I thought well-balanced (except for a surprising ramp in difficulty in the ending boss battle, that took many many reloads and walkthrough consultations to master). Next is the mystery of the title, which articles like http://www.thegamecritique.com/recent-posts/truth-propoganda-and-the-power-of-people-in-beyond-good-and-evil/314/ attempt to address. Was there some 'journalistic integrity in the age of Baghdad Bob & YellowCake' influences, or even a Nietzschean connection? Eh, probably not, but there's a cachet and mystique about it that lingers and is highly appealing. Rumors of the prequel being developed are that it will provide both some background to Jade's parentage, as well as expand on the enigmatic ending of BG&E1. There's one minor touch of detail that struck me with wonder repeatedly while cruising around Hillys, that I hope will be a cornerstone of BG&E2 -- that you could look up with your camera at the sky, and see a text popup about a star system or planet. You only visit the moon in BG&E1, but Ancel emphasized repeatedly the scaling capabilities of the new engine, which opens up extremely exciting potential for visiting other worlds (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8IguhQqhAg ) I used a Widescreen patch http://ps2wide.net/pc.html for the GoG version of the game, as well as an Inverted Mouse patch (from the GoG forums). some screen flickering in the UI was mildly annoying, but apparently can be addressed by backing off on display quality in settings. rms
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: rri... Ross Ridge
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 17:44
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 17:44
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Spalls Hurgenson <spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote: >Many of the games, admittedly, have not aged well. Almost of the games >that used the PC speaker for their sound effects are practically >unplayable as far as I am concerned, regardless of how entertaining >the rest of the game might be (I'm looking in your direction in >particular, 'Vette!). For some of the older games you've listed the PC port is pretty bad, and you'd be better playing on different emulated system. For example the best version of Ultima V is the Commodore 128 version. The graphics are slightly better than the PC version and you get SID sound instead of PC speaker beeps. The Bard's Tale games and Dragon Age probably play better on the Amiga for similar reasons. >I was surprised at how difficult many of the games were; truly we >modern gamers have been spoiled both by varying difficulty levels and >iterative play-testing. Yah, by today's standards most games were pretty hardcore back then. It makes it hard to play a lot of old games if you hadn't played them back in the day. Having to learn a weird control scheme while trying to figure out how to play the game well enough to progress can make it very frustrating. Even back in the day I can think of a few games, like Wizardry VII and Privateer, that I ran into a brick wall the first time I played. It wasn't until I gave the game a second (or third) was able to get anywhere in them. Still never finished a game of Privateer to the end. >I don't know how often I'll be returning to my DOSBox installation, >but I love that I have such a huge selection available at my >fingertips, all the more so since the whole thing weighs in at a >surprisingly light 10GB (less than the 1/3 the space required by one >modern game!). That's bigger than I would've guessed from the list you gave. My collection of 50+ MS-DOS games is only about 5GB and that includes a fair bit of duplicate installs. Ross Ridge -- l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU [oo][oo] rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca -()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ db //
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Mike S.
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2017 02:10
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2017 02:10
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On Mon, 3 Jul 2017 17:44:10 +0000 (UTC), rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Ross Ridge) wrote: >For some of the older games you've listed the PC port is pretty bad, >and you'd be better playing on different emulated system. For example >the best version of Ultima V is the Commodore 128 version. The graphics >are slightly better than the PC version and you get SID sound instead >of PC speaker beeps. Well there is this as far as music goes, although I never tried it --> http://ultima.wikia.com/wiki/Ultima_V_Upgrade_Patch And as for graphics, are you sure it looks better on the C-128 even after a graphical scaler like hq3x is applied in Dosbox? >The Bard's Tale games and Dragon Age probably play >better on the Amiga for similar reasons. The Bard's Tale looks and sounds better on the Amiga winUAE emulator but the DOS version plays better in DosBox. At least that was my experience when I played through the Bard's Tale a few years ago.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Spalls Hurgenson
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2017 13:45
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2017 13:45
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On Mon, 3 Jul 2017 17:44:10 +0000 (UTC), rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Ross Ridge) wrote: >Spalls Hurgenson <spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote: >>Many of the games, admittedly, have not aged well. Almost of the games >>that used the PC speaker for their sound effects are practically >>unplayable as far as I am concerned, regardless of how entertaining >>the rest of the game might be (I'm looking in your direction in >>particular, 'Vette!). > >For some of the older games you've listed the PC port is pretty bad, >and you'd be better playing on different emulated system. For example >the best version of Ultima V is the Commodore 128 version. The graphics >are slightly better than the PC version and you get SID sound instead >of PC speaker beeps. The Bard's Tale games and Dragon Age probably play >better on the Amiga for similar reasons. In fairness, the Ultima 5 installation has been patched with proper MIDI support and now -with full Roland output - is the best available version. ;-P Bards Tale 3 is quite acceptable, thanks to Adlib support. Bards Tale 1 & 2 were playable, but the square-wave music from the PC beeper-speaker was a significant downside. I originally played Dragon Wars on my Apple II and the PC version is actually a step up from that. The one game I just /couldn't/ play was Might & Magic 1. I tried to play it, I really did, but its speaker effects made my ears bleed and its CGA graphics made my eyes tear. It was quickly uninstalled (well, DELTREE'd). >>but I love that I have such a huge selection available at my >>fingertips, all the more so since the whole thing weighs in at a >>surprisingly light 10GB (less than the 1/3 the space required by one >>modern game!). >That's bigger than I would've guessed from the list you gave. >My collection of 50+ MS-DOS games is only about 5GB and that includes >a fair bit of duplicate installs. It's not just games; there's a whole bunch of Windows 3.11 stuff. Just the screensavers - AfterDark, OriginFX, Johnny Castaway, Star Wars Screen Entertainment - probably take 10s of megabytes! ;-) But many of the games include full images of the original CD-ROMs so I don't have to worry about swapping CDs (I almost killed my CD drive when I started imaging everything back in the day ;-). Games like "Terra Nova: Strike Force Centauri" or "Star Trek TNG: A Final Unity" take up more than a half-gig each. It adds up.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Mike S.
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2017 15:53
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2017 15:53
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On Tue, 04 Jul 2017 09:45:57 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson <spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote: >The one game I just /couldn't/ play was Might & Magic 1. I tried to >play it, I really did, but its speaker effects made my ears bleed and >its CGA graphics made my eyes tear. It was quickly uninstalled (well, >DELTREE'd). Might & Magic 1 supports 16 color EGA. This game is better then Wizardry or Bard's Tale to me. Huge game world. Actual quests to do. And a combat system that is superior to other similar games of the time in that your characters attack immediately rather then queuing up attacks. This made a big difference to me.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Eddie Anderson
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 02:02
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 02:02
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Spalls Hurgenson wrote: <snip good stuff> > So my month was full; I hope yours was equally so. Let's find out. > > What have you been playing... IN JUNE 2017? Die Siedler von Catan (DOS; replay (obviously)) Also, I recommend the "Swan Song" version of STARMAP.EXE when replaying Master of Orion 1. I found it linked in the Realms Beyond forums. And I no longer trust ORION.COM to create a decent map. So I save each new map, then type Alt-GALAXY to reveal the map, and then decide whether any home worlds are too close to each other, and then quit. If the home worlds were adequately far apart, then I load the saved game. Otherwise I start a new game. -- Eddie
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: rri... Ross Ridge
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 17:04
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 17:04
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Mike S. <Mik...@nowhere.com> wrote: >And as for graphics, are you sure it looks better on the C-128 even >after a graphical scaler like hq3x is applied in Dosbox? I'm sure you can use the same scalers under a Commodore 128 emulator, but I've never really liked them personally myself. The slightly improved graphics I'm talking about a result of the PC and C64/C128 ports being done by different people from the same base Apple II game. Both games greatly improved on the Apple II graphics, both use a resolution of 320x200, but the Commodore port is supposed to be slightly better done. At least as far as the tile sets go. Looking at dungeon screenshots the PC version looks noticeably better, the C64/C128 dungeons appear to be using 160x200 graphics, so maybe I'm wrong here. >>The Bard's Tale games and Dragon Age probably play >>better on the Amiga for similar reasons. > >The Bard's Tale looks and sounds better on the Amiga winUAE emulator >but the DOS version plays better in DosBox. At least that was my >experience when I played through the Bard's Tale a few years ago. Yah, when I tried running the C64, Amiga and IBM PC versions of Pool of Radiance to see what version was better, I found using WinUAE to be a pain. That was something like 15 years ago though. I was kind hoping that the state of Amiga emulation had improved by now. The great thing about DOSBox is that it's designed to play games first and foremost. (It's actually kind of a crappy emulator for things aren't games.) I remember reading a post by the person behind UAE or WinUAE about how upset they were that all people wanted to do with it was play games. -- l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU [oo][oo] rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca -()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ db //
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Dimensional Traveler
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 17:31
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 17:31
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On 7/5/2017 10:04 AM, Ross Ridge wrote: > Mike S. <Mik...@nowhere.com> wrote: >> And as for graphics, are you sure it looks better on the C-128 even >> after a graphical scaler like hq3x is applied in Dosbox? > > I'm sure you can use the same scalers under a Commodore 128 emulator, but > I've never really liked them personally myself. The slightly improved > graphics I'm talking about a result of the PC and C64/C128 ports being > done by different people from the same base Apple II game. Both games > greatly improved on the Apple II graphics, both use a resolution of > 320x200, but the Commodore port is supposed to be slightly better done. > At least as far as the tile sets go. Looking at dungeon screenshots the > PC version looks noticeably better, the C64/C128 dungeons appear to be > using 160x200 graphics, so maybe I'm wrong here. > >>> The Bard's Tale games and Dragon Age probably play >>> better on the Amiga for similar reasons. >> >> The Bard's Tale looks and sounds better on the Amiga winUAE emulator >> but the DOS version plays better in DosBox. At least that was my >> experience when I played through the Bard's Tale a few years ago. > > Yah, when I tried running the C64, Amiga and IBM PC versions of Pool > of Radiance to see what version was better, I found using WinUAE to be > a pain. That was something like 15 years ago though. I was kind hoping > that the state of Amiga emulation had improved by now. > > The great thing about DOSBox is that it's designed to play games first > and foremost. (It's actually kind of a crappy emulator for things > aren't games.) I remember reading a post by the person behind UAE or > WinUAE about how upset they were that all people wanted to do with it > was play games. > They expected people to run WordStar and Lotus spreadsheets? -- Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation instinct are running screaming.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Justisaur
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 18:12
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 18:12
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On 7/2/2017 6:15 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote: (Need For Speed SE, for instance, kept me > wonderfully enthralled for hours and hours). > > I don't know how often I'll be returning to my DOSBox installation, > but I love that I have such a huge selection available at my > fingertips, all the more so since the whole thing weighs in at a > surprisingly light 10GB (less than the 1/3 the space required by one > modern game!). There are so many classic and often forgotten titles > from yesteryear and it's always a blast to revisit these archaic > experiences, both to enjoy the games themselves and to see how far our > hobby has advanced since those early years. > I know the speed increase settings in Dos Box made Pool of Radiance far more playable than it was originally. That's still pretty poor compared to modern games though. I haven't gone back to any other games in recent history, except Telengard, which still played surprisingly well for what it was, though it still only kept me interested a few hours. I'm kind of interested in trying Need for Speed SE now as I missed all those driving games back in the day. Although I didn't get very far with Carmageddon when I tried it a few months ago. If you want the *REAL* DOS experience there's always FreeDOS. I'd be tempted to try win 3.11 again, as it had the fastest/easiest/best macro creator & runner I've ever seen. Of course I probably couldn't load anything I need to work on into anything that runs on 3.11. > What have you been playing... IN JUNE 2017? > Fallout 2 Fallout Shelter GTA V Death Skid Marks Westerado Star Wars: Republic Commando Buriedbornes Fallout 2 (1998 Post Apoc RPG) - I guess it's finally too old for me. :( I was trying to get through a dumb run and a melee run. Melee was just too annoying with people running away. Dumb was fun at first but after not being able to do much I finally got bored with it about 1/3 through the game. Fallout shelter (PC Freemium sim) - playing it on the PC works much better. I just eventually found the time delays to play too annoying, and no cheats seemed to work to get around them, without changing your PC clock, which I didn't want to do. I'm tempted to try it on an old laptop to do that, but not sure if it would run as poorly as it does on my phone. GTA V (xbox 360 - sim?) - Finally got into it on my third attempt to play it. I like it better than IV, but the cops are way too deadly and reactive. It seems way too hard to get money in the game. I'd like to buys some of the business, but you need hundreds of millions of dollars for some, which from what I've read just isn't available until the end of the game unless you wanted to spend hundreds or thousands of hours grinding 5k at about 7 min a piece, or trying to game the stock market which seems questionable. By the time the game's over there's no reason to have the business. I miss being able to just cause mayhem to get money. I still miss the cop & fireman missions. I'm a bit irritated that the missions for collecting cars aren't in the game either, as it's is GTA after all, what's the point if you can't get paid for doing the thing that's the name of the game. It feels a bit too tight and realistic, having lost a lot of the 'fun'. With all those complaints it's still a good game, there's been a lot of laughs, but it's no GTA VC. There's apparently quite an online game which is quite different, so I'm thinking of buying it again on PC for the online play. Death Skid Marks (indy 8bit squad-battle-driving) - Reminds me a little bit of the old Spy-Hunter arcade game, which was my 2nd favorite arcade game (after Street Fighter 2). It's got some random 'roguelike' elements as you get stores where you can get repairs only randomly. The first game I played I didn't get any for something like 5 fights after the first and died of attrition. The second game I got quite far and was killed by the 2nd boss. It's a fun little indy game, it almost-but-not-quite grabbed me. Thus I only played those 2 games, maybe a couple hours. Still not bad for the less than $2 I payed for it. Westerado (indy 8bit western/rpg)- I may have not given this game enough time, it's got lots of reading quests like a lot of old RPGs, and I got tired of slogging through those. I had one shoot-out I just barely won, but that's it before I got bored. I could see this appealing to me if I weren't so spoiled by more modern designed games. Star Wars: Republic Commando (2005 Squad FPS) - This was the best rated of the Star Wars games I got in the huge pack in the previous sale that I hadn't played yet, so I thought I'd try it. It's a decent squad shooter. The mouse control needs some smoothing, it feels a bit squirrely, and your starting weapon - some sort of blaster auto-rifle is highly inaccurate and does little damage which contributes to the feeling. I might go back and try again with controller to see if it feels better. The squad aspect seems pretty tacked on, you just need them to do certain things like hack doors or snipe someone, and they don't really help much in a battle. In general it both looks and feels a bit dated. I got a few hours out of this, and got to a bit into the Genosian area before I left it. The Genosians are gross and nasty. I'm not into the prequel SW setting so that doesn't do anything for me. Buriedbornes (Android jp 'rougelike' freemium) - This game has me totally hooked, even to the point of often playing it instead of PC games at home. It's a sort of roguelike where you play a single character and see how far you can get in a dungeon, you can start as a mage, ranger, warrior or priest but can unlock many others through actions in the game or with in game money. You choose a path in a dungeons as if you were choosing from 2 cards (rooms) the left or right path and you can see some of what's in each room, and if you have scouting you can see what's beyond that another room giving you a total of 4 paths to take. You start with a few abilities, and collect more on the way, that work with cool-downs on turns that remind me a bit of how some of the MMOs. You also collect 3 items that affect your strength and abilities. It's not unusual to change out everything constantly until higher level as you keep getting upgrades. It's originally in Japanese and some of the translations are a bit lacking, and it can be difficult to figure out just which items are actually best for you, although that seems to be a feature of the game choosing between items with up to 6 modifiers. In some cases the Japanese is still there without translation, especially on yes-no prompts, but I figured out yes is on the right. This has just the right level of interaction to allow me to play while taking a walk on a break. I can also use one of the characters I unlocked - the Moon Queen who has Frenzy naturally, which makes your attacks happen randomly and automatically, while you gain 2x hp & damage, so it is easier to play her as I just have to chose what abilities and items I pick up and can let the fights go on their own. The freemium aspect is pretty negligible, there's a banner on the bottom (you can pay $2 I think to get rid of that) and you can buy extra in game money to help get certain things that you can get just by grinding the money. If you've got any interest in this sort of thing I strongly suggest trying it out. - Justisaur
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: rms
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 21:29
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 21:29
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>I'm kind of interested in trying Need for Speed SE now as I missed all
>those driving games back in the day.
I still consider this title the best in the series. I think I steered
with just a keyboard, though I think it could recognize something like a
8-direction digital gamepad (not sure on that).
>Star Wars: Republic Commando (2005 Squad FPS)
Sorry you didn't like this one, I rather enjoyed it. Didn't I hear some
recent blurb that a sequel of some sort was in the works? Or am I spouting
nonsense
rms
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: rri... Ross Ridge
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 21:37
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 21:37
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Ross Ridge wrote: > I remember reading a post by the person behind UAE or > WinUAE about how upset they were that all people wanted to do with it > was play games. Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote: > They expected people to run WordStar and Lotus spreadsheets? Those particular programs weren't available on the Amiga, but yah, I'm not really sure what they expected. The Amiga wasn't know for its office applications and it was never very popular outside of the home. I suspect maybe the author hoped the emulator would lead to new Amiga development, maybe turning it into a successful business computer just like the more popular IBM PC. -- l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU [oo][oo] rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca -()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ db //
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: rri... Ross Ridge
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 22:35
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 22:35
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Spalls Hurgenson <spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote: >The one game I just /couldn't/ play was Might & Magic 1. I tried to >play it, I really did, but its speaker effects made my ears bleed and >its CGA graphics made my eyes tear. It was quickly uninstalled (well, >DELTREE'd). Mike S. <Mik...@nowhere.com> wrote: >Might & Magic 1 supports 16 color EGA. This game is better then >Wizardry or Bard's Tale to me. Huge game world. Actual quests to do. >And a combat system that is superior to other similar games of the >time in that your characters attack immediately rather then queuing up >attacks. This made a big difference to me. Yah, Might & Magic I & II up the content and graphics (which, as you say, are EGA quality) over Bard's Tale I, II & III. Though Dragon Wars does a fairly good job with story. The combat differences didn't matter to me though, I'm fine with it either way. One thing I liked about the Might & Magic series is that sequels didn't have the power scaling issues that Bard's Tale series did. In the Bard's Tale sequels you could import your characters from the previous game, with all their levels and abilities intact. This meant that the games were meant to be played from the beginning by high level characters and there wasn't much sense progression as you leveled even higher. Instead having your spell casters of working their way up lists of spells, and using a variety of them through out the game, you were mostly only using a few of the most powerful spells. Since playing BT2 & BT3 I've felt importing characters from previous games without nerfing them (like in MM2 & MM3 or Wizardry 7 & 8) is a big mistake. Or alternatively without keeping the levels from getting too high like in the Gold Box games. -- l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU [oo][oo] rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca -()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ db //
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: rri... Ross Ridge
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 00:13
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 00:13
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Spalls Hurgenson <spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote: >Fortunately, I had either imaged the original floppy disks or was able >to transfer the files over from the GOG.com installations (although in >a few cases I had to go out and re-purchase one of these classic >games). I thought I had most of my old MS-DOS games already installed in one way or another, but your mentioning of Dragon Wars reminded me I didn't have that game on my hard disk. A quick check in my 5 1/4" floppy disk case revealed that there were three other games I didn't have installed either. So I figured I better copy the disks now, before it's too late. Assuming it's not too late already. Suprisingly, despite the fact that the game disks and the 5 1/4" drive are all at least 25 years now, I was able to copy all nine disks without issue. I was worried more about the drive than the disks though, as floppy disks seem to be pretty resliant if all their doing is sitting on shelf. -- l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU [oo][oo] rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca -()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ db //
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Mike S.
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 01:39
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 01:39
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On Wed, 5 Jul 2017 22:35:48 +0000 (UTC), rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Ross Ridge) wrote: >One thing I liked about the Might & Magic series is that sequels didn't >have the power scaling issues that Bard's Tale series did. In the Bard's >Tale sequels you could import your characters from the previous game, with >all their levels and abilities intact. This meant that the games were >meant to be played from the beginning by high level characters and there >wasn't much sense progression as you leveled even higher. Instead having >your spell casters of working their way up lists of spells, and using a >variety of them through out the game, you were mostly only using a few of >the most powerful spells. Since playing BT2 & BT3 I've felt importing >characters from previous games without nerfing them (like in MM2 & MM3 >or Wizardry 7 & 8) is a big mistake. Or alternatively without keeping >the levels from getting too high like in the Gold Box games. I agree 100%. It was a huge problem for me with Bard's tale 2 and 3. Especially 3. You could actually start the game with level 1 characters but the first dungeon you go into will ultimately reward you with enough exp to shoot up many levels all at once. I really hated it. An RPG without character progression isn't much of an RPG to me. I did not have this issue in any Wizardry or Might & Magic. But I had other issues with Bard's Tale 2 and 3. Too many spinners, teleporters, spell fizzle areas and darkness squares for my liking in Bard's Tale 2. And the third game had way too much combat. Endless combat combined with my characters not needing the exp, I just gave up. The first Bard's Tale is good, but as a series, both Might & Magic and Wizardry easily outclass it.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Rudi
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 09:23
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 09:23
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On Wed, 5 Jul 2017 21:37:25 +0000 (UTC), rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Ross Ridge) wrote: >Those particular programs weren't available on the Amiga, but yah, >I'm not really sure what they expected. The Amiga wasn't know for its >office applications For what it's worth, I had my first experience in Desktop Publishing with Amiga 500 - did quite a lot of flyers and memos, even up to A3 size posters with it. Of course, they were all printed with a dot-matrix printer, so by today's standards it's pretty much useless; but I did get my fair share of oohs and aahs at the time :)
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Toby Newman
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 09:54
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 09:54
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On 2017-07-06, Rudi <ru...@iki.fi> wrote: > On Wed, 5 Jul 2017 21:37:25 +0000 (UTC), rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca > (Ross Ridge) wrote: > >>Those particular programs weren't available on the Amiga, but yah, >>I'm not really sure what they expected. The Amiga wasn't know for its >>office applications > > For what it's worth, I had my first experience in Desktop Publishing > with Amiga 500 - did quite a lot of flyers and memos, even up to A3 > size posters with it. Of course, they were all printed with a > dot-matrix printer, so by today's standards it's pretty much useless; > but I did get my fair share of oohs and aahs at the time :) I used to use two Amigas running Octamed to write tracker dance music and then took the machines out gigging. Actually never played games much on an Amiga expect over at a friend's house. -- -Toby Add the word afiduluminag to the subject to circumvent my email filters.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Xocyll
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 10:01
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 10:01
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Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say: >On 7/5/2017 10:04 AM, Ross Ridge wrote: >> Mike S. <Mik...@nowhere.com> wrote: >>> And as for graphics, are you sure it looks better on the C-128 even >>> after a graphical scaler like hq3x is applied in Dosbox? >> >> I'm sure you can use the same scalers under a Commodore 128 emulator, but >> I've never really liked them personally myself. The slightly improved >> graphics I'm talking about a result of the PC and C64/C128 ports being >> done by different people from the same base Apple II game. Both games >> greatly improved on the Apple II graphics, both use a resolution of >> 320x200, but the Commodore port is supposed to be slightly better done. >> At least as far as the tile sets go. Looking at dungeon screenshots the >> PC version looks noticeably better, the C64/C128 dungeons appear to be >> using 160x200 graphics, so maybe I'm wrong here. >> >>>> The Bard's Tale games and Dragon Age probably play >>>> better on the Amiga for similar reasons. >>> >>> The Bard's Tale looks and sounds better on the Amiga winUAE emulator >>> but the DOS version plays better in DosBox. At least that was my >>> experience when I played through the Bard's Tale a few years ago. >> >> Yah, when I tried running the C64, Amiga and IBM PC versions of Pool >> of Radiance to see what version was better, I found using WinUAE to be >> a pain. That was something like 15 years ago though. I was kind hoping >> that the state of Amiga emulation had improved by now. >> >> The great thing about DOSBox is that it's designed to play games first >> and foremost. (It's actually kind of a crappy emulator for things >> aren't games.) I remember reading a post by the person behind UAE or >> WinUAE about how upset they were that all people wanted to do with it >> was play games. >> >They expected people to run WordStar and Lotus spreadsheets? You never know. When Corel took over Word Perfect they got rid of functions that "only a minority of our customers use." Some sort of advanced sorting/collating/list generation he used to generate potential musician lists for upcoming functions for the local musicians union. (People who play that genre of music, are paid up members, etc.) Word Perfect came with it and once set up it was very useful/powerful, then Corel took over WP and axed it. Word never had it. As a result, my Father, who used one of those functions, never bought another version and continued using that older Dos based one for several more years, since it was quite literally the only one that did that. Never think that newer automatically equals better, sometimes it's the early versions that had all the features. Xocyll -- I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Spalls Hurgenson
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 13:11
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 13:11
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On Wed, 5 Jul 2017 10:31:14 -0700, Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote: >On 7/5/2017 10:04 AM, Ross Ridge wrote: >> Mike S. <Mik...@nowhere.com> wrote: >>> And as for graphics, are you sure it looks better on the C-128 even >>> after a graphical scaler like hq3x is applied in Dosbox? >> >> I'm sure you can use the same scalers under a Commodore 128 emulator, but >> I've never really liked them personally myself. The slightly improved >> graphics I'm talking about a result of the PC and C64/C128 ports being >> done by different people from the same base Apple II game. Both games >> greatly improved on the Apple II graphics, both use a resolution of >> 320x200, but the Commodore port is supposed to be slightly better done. >> At least as far as the tile sets go. Looking at dungeon screenshots the >> PC version looks noticeably better, the C64/C128 dungeons appear to be >> using 160x200 graphics, so maybe I'm wrong here. >> >>>> The Bard's Tale games and Dragon Age probably play >>>> better on the Amiga for similar reasons. >>> >>> The Bard's Tale looks and sounds better on the Amiga winUAE emulator >>> but the DOS version plays better in DosBox. At least that was my >>> experience when I played through the Bard's Tale a few years ago. >> >> Yah, when I tried running the C64, Amiga and IBM PC versions of Pool >> of Radiance to see what version was better, I found using WinUAE to be >> a pain. That was something like 15 years ago though. I was kind hoping >> that the state of Amiga emulation had improved by now. >> >> The great thing about DOSBox is that it's designed to play games first >> and foremost. (It's actually kind of a crappy emulator for things >> aren't games.) I remember reading a post by the person behind UAE or >> WinUAE about how upset they were that all people wanted to do with it >> was play games. >> >They expected people to run WordStar and Lotus spreadsheets? Maybe they wanted people to start using video toaster, which kept the Amiga alive long after its hardware was far surpassed by other platforms. Of course, these days there's not much call for a program that can edit NTSC standard-def TV video... Amiga was also a strong contender in the early days of desktop publishing, although it was quickly passed by Macintosh and - much later - PCs. But, yeah, it's odd that they'd consider WinUA would have been used for much other than games.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Spalls Hurgenson
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 13:23
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 13:23
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On Wed, 5 Jul 2017 15:29:46 -0600, "rms" <rsqui...@MOOyossmanMOO.net> wrote: >>I'm kind of interested in trying Need for Speed SE now as I missed all >>those driving games back in the day. > > I still consider this title the best in the series. I think I steered >with just a keyboard, though I think it could recognize something like a >8-direction digital gamepad (not sure on that). I don't know if I would consider NFS:SE the best, but it is certainly a contender. Personally, I have /very/ fond memories of NFS3 (and NFS5: Porsche Unleashed was nothing to sneeze at either). The first game has probably aged the best, however; it might have had huge pixels, but for some reason I find that less visually offensive than the odd angles and low-res textures of the later game's low-polygon models. It's definitely worth a revisit, although it can be a bit finicky to get working on DOSBox (recommendation: use machine=svga_paradise settings in DOSBox and load UniVBE - remember Univbe? - first) But some of my favorite racing moments are from that game: racing down the nearly straight highways of the City track, zooming along the winding roads through the pine forests and under the train-tracks on the Alpine track, or cresting the ridge and seeing a valley filled with hot-air balloons on the Coastal track. Pretty decent soundtrack too.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Spalls Hurgenson
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 13:31
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 13:31
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On Thu, 6 Jul 2017 00:13:16 +0000 (UTC), rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Ross Ridge) wrote: >Spalls Hurgenson <spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote: >>Fortunately, I had either imaged the original floppy disks or was able >>to transfer the files over from the GOG.com installations (although in >>a few cases I had to go out and re-purchase one of these classic >>games). > >I thought I had most of my old MS-DOS games already installed in one >way or another, but your mentioning of Dragon Wars reminded me I didn't >have that game on my hard disk. A quick check in my 5 1/4" floppy disk >case revealed that there were three other games I didn't have installed >either. So I figured I better copy the disks now, before it's too late. >Assuming it's not too late already. > >Suprisingly, despite the fact that the game disks and the 5 1/4" >drive are all at least 25 years now, I was able to copy all nine disks >without issue. I was worried more about the drive than the disks though, >as floppy disks seem to be pretty resliant if all their doing is sitting >on shelf. As I said, back in the day I imaged most of my disks. I did this partly because I was worried about the medium's longevity, but mostly so I could save space; all those floppy games fit on a single CD-ROM (it was around the time that same necessity forced me to lose all those awesome game boxes too). While I remember testing them, I was never completely without worry that the on-disk copy-protection wouldn't work from disk images (Lemmings 1 was particularly sensitive). In most cases, rather than deal with this possibility, I often just re-purchase the game from GOG. Such was the case with Dragon Wars; I didn't even bother with my ancient disk images, I just downloaded the game and transferred the files to my giant DOSBox installation. Best thing about Dragon Wars, btw? Automap.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: rri... Ross Ridge
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 16:02
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 16:02
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Mike S. <Mik...@nowhere.com> wrote: >But I had other issues with Bard's Tale 2 and 3. Too many spinners, >teleporters, spell fizzle areas and darkness squares for my liking in >Bard's Tale 2. And the third game had way too much combat. Endless >combat combined with my characters not needing the exp, I just gave >up. Yah, that was my experience as well. I managed to persevere through Bard's Tale 2, but gave up on Bard's Tale 3 about halfway through because it just got boring. -- l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU [oo][oo] rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca -()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ db //
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Justisaur
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 16:49
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 16:49
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On 7/5/2017 2:29 PM, rms wrote: >> I'm kind of interested in trying Need for Speed SE now as I missed all >> those driving games back in the day. > > I still consider this title the best in the series. I think I > steered with just a keyboard, though I think it could recognize > something like a 8-direction digital gamepad (not sure on that). I bought my logitech controller to deal with that sort of issue. I haven't had any luck setting up dosbox to work with it, but then I didn't try very hard yet. > >> Star Wars: Republic Commando (2005 Squad FPS) > > Sorry you didn't like this one, I rather enjoyed it. Didn't I hear > some recent blurb that a sequel of some sort was in the works? Or am I > spouting nonsense I kind of enjoyed it, It's just a bit dated and has some control issues, it's still playable, just slightly annoying. I might go back to it, especially if I can get a controller to work with it, and one that works better than mouse, or maybe there's some mods out there to fix it. After a search, I found some for graphics, one for mouse - but only in menus which isn't where it bothers me, and one to make the xbox 360 controller 'mostly work'. Doesn't sound terribly promising. I started up Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel the other day, I can see the control issues with SWRC quite starkly going from one to the other. On the plus side with SWRC, it's awfully nice to play an FPS that isn't dependent on random loot and knowing how to build your character, though I'm still irritated at the use of ammo in SW universe, when have we ever seen a blaster run out of ammo? Not to mention Borderlands is getting a bit stale with yet more of the same, just slightly different. Apparently the sequel was canceled along with a couple other SW games in the wake of Disney's taking of the franchise. - Justisaur
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: rri... Ross Ridge
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 17:34
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 17:34
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Spalls Hurgenson <spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote: >As I said, back in the day I imaged most of my disks. I did this >partly because I was worried about the medium's longevity, but mostly >so I could save space; all those floppy games fit on a single CD-ROM >(it was around the time that same necessity forced me to lose all >those awesome game boxes too). I've mostly relied on the fact that I never uninstall games unless I need to make room for something else, and it's been a very long time since I've needed to do that. So my current PC has every MS-DOS I ever installed on it and on all of it's previous incarnations going back to 1999. There was was no need to uninstall any MS-DOS games because they're so small. (I mean why uninstall Might & Magic I? It's only 600k or so.) > While I remember testing them, I was >never completely without worry that the on-disk copy-protection >wouldn't work from disk images (Lemmings 1 was particularly >sensitive). In most cases, rather than deal with this possibility, I >often just re-purchase the game from GOG. For games like Lemmings I just downloaded a cracked copy from some abandonware site. I feel I'm justifiend in doing that if I have the game disk sitting on my shelf. (As it turns out the "cracked" copy I downloaded turns out to be exactly the same as what's on my 3.5" floppy original except with the addition of one extra file "RUSSELL.DAT" that effectively disables the copy protection.) >Such was the case with >Dragon Wars; I didn't even bother with my ancient disk images, I just >downloaded the game and transferred the files to my giant DOSBox >installation. Well, Dragon Wars is easy to install off the disks, just copy all the files (all four of them) into the same directory. There was another game I installed by just running the INSTALL.BAT script from Windows. Since it was just batch file it ran fine under 64-bit Windows. >Best thing about Dragon Wars, btw? Automap. Yah, that's the one big problem with going back the older dungeon crawlers like Might and Magic I, no automap. If I were replaying it today, I'd probably just cheat and use maps from the Internet. (Even back in the day after I completely mapped out a level in the Bard's Tale games I'd use a program I wrote to print out a map of the level generated from game's data files.) -- l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU [oo][oo] rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca -()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ db //
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Dimensional Traveler
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 20:12
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 20:12
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On 7/6/2017 9:49 AM, Justisaur wrote: > On 7/5/2017 2:29 PM, rms wrote: > >> I'm kind of interested in trying Need for Speed SE now as I missed all > >> those driving games back in the day. > > > > I still consider this title the best in the series. I think I > > steered with just a keyboard, though I think it could recognize > > something like a 8-direction digital gamepad (not sure on that). > I bought my logitech controller to deal with that sort of issue. I > haven't had any luck setting up dosbox to work with it, but then I > didn't try very hard yet. > > > > >> Star Wars: Republic Commando (2005 Squad FPS) > > > > Sorry you didn't like this one, I rather enjoyed it. Didn't I hear > > some recent blurb that a sequel of some sort was in the works? Or am I > > spouting nonsense > I kind of enjoyed it, It's just a bit dated and has some control issues, > it's still playable, just slightly annoying. I might go back to it, > especially if I can get a controller to work with it, and one that works > better than mouse, or maybe there's some mods out there to fix it. After > a search, I found some for graphics, one for mouse - but only in menus > which isn't where it bothers me, and one to make the xbox 360 controller > 'mostly work'. Doesn't sound terribly promising. > > I started up Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel the other day, I can see the > control issues with SWRC quite starkly going from one to the other. On > the plus side with SWRC, it's awfully nice to play an FPS that isn't > dependent on random loot and knowing how to build your character, though > I'm still irritated at the use of ammo in SW universe, when have we ever > seen a blaster run out of ammo? Not to mention Borderlands is getting a > bit stale with yet more of the same, just slightly different. > > Apparently the sequel was canceled along with a couple other SW games in > the wake of Disney's taking of the franchise. > I'm still confused about The Mouse's decision to forgo making more obscene amounts of money off computer games when they bought Lucas. Heck, video/computer games has been a bigger industry than movies for several years now. -- Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation instinct are running screaming.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Spalls Hurgenson
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 13:20
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 13:20
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On Thu, 6 Jul 2017 13:12:37 -0700, Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote: >> Apparently the sequel was canceled along with a couple other SW games in >> the wake of Disney's taking of the franchise. >> >I'm still confused about The Mouse's decision to forgo making more >obscene amounts of money off computer games when they bought Lucas. >Heck, video/computer games has been a bigger industry than movies for >several years now. Disney isn't opposed to Star Wars video games; they are opposed to making the games /themselves/. They have divested themselves of their entire entertainment software division. Any future Star Wars games (or Mickey Mouse, or Marvel comics, or...) will be licensed to other developers. This actually makes sense from a finiancial stand-point. Computer games are an extremely risky investment. Triple-A games cost upwards of $100 million dollars, and the audience can be extremely fickle. Bet on the wrong platform, or fail to nail the gameplay, or just misread the audience's desires and you got a very expensive bomb on your hands. It's killed more than one studio. While Disney is too large to be taken down by a bad game, they are averse to losing money. By licensing, they get the benefit - cash in the bank - with almost no risk; even if the game flops, they still get paid by the developer (albeit maybe not as much). It is unfortunate that Disney killed all of LucasArts projects rather than transferring them to other developers, but this isn't unusual, and probably for the best. Projects that bounce between developers and publishers usually do not result in quality games. I believe EA currently has an extended license to Star Wars. We're getting another Battlefront from DICE, the Dead Space developers (Visceral) are doing a third-person action game, as are Respawn Entertainment (developers of Titanfall) and there are rumors of a new single-player Knights of the Old Republic by Bioware. Plus, while recent selections may not have been to everybody's taste, numerous Star Wars games have been released under Disney's aegis, including two Lego Star Wars titles, 2016's Battlefront, and the continued expansion of The Old Republic MMORPG. So it would be inaccurate to say Disney isn't interested in Star Wars computer games.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Spalls Hurgenson
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 13:52
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 13:52
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On Thu, 6 Jul 2017 17:34:12 +0000 (UTC), rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Ross Ridge) wrote: >Spalls Hurgenson <spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote: >>As I said, back in the day I imaged most of my disks. I did this >>partly because I was worried about the medium's longevity, but mostly >>so I could save space; all those floppy games fit on a single CD-ROM >>(it was around the time that same necessity forced me to lose all >>those awesome game boxes too). > >I've mostly relied on the fact that I never uninstall games unless I need >to make room for something else, and it's been a very long time since I've >needed to do that. So my current PC has every MS-DOS I ever installed >on it and on all of it's previous incarnations going back to 1999. >There was was no need to uninstall any MS-DOS games because they're >so small. (I mean why uninstall Might & Magic I? It's only 600k or so.) See, that's a big difference between you and me. I uninstall games /all/ the time. Finished with a game? Off it goes. No lingering about on the hard-drive for my games; I want that space back. It's not even that I necessarily /need/ the space - I currently have 500GB free on the games hard-drive alone - but I just don't like unused programs sitting on my system. This is an old habit learned from my DOS - and pre-DOS - days when disk-space was at a premium, and I've never bothered to unlearn it. I remember that when I got Ultima VII - which weighed in at a whopping 22MB! - I had to uninstall almost all my other games and half my applications just to get enough disk space. That sort of lesson sticks with a person ;-) There are some games that escape these purges. Skyrim (and Oblivion before it) stuck around for years, although even they eventually were removed too. Oblivion actually survived three seperate computer upgrades. Eurotruck Simulator 2 has been on disk for at least three years, and Left4Dead has stayed where it is since I first installed it in 2008. The DOSBox games tend to survive for years as well, largely because they take up almost no space (although I'm already feeling a bit antsy about some of the recent additions; I don't think Fate of Atlantis, Orion Conspiracy and Whiplash will be with us for long ;-) >>Best thing about Dragon Wars, btw? Automap. > >Yah, that's the one big problem with going back the older dungeon crawlers >like Might and Magic I, no automap. If I were replaying it today, I'd >probably just cheat and use maps from the Internet. (Even back in the >day after I completely mapped out a level in the Bard's Tale games I'd >use a program I wrote to print out a map of the level generated from >game's data files.) The worst was the games that spun you around to purposefully disorient you. It was such obvious padding and absolutely no fun. It didn't help that the games had such short draw distance (three tiles for Bards Tale, MM1 and Dragon Wars) and the limited graphics capabilities of the time meant that all the dungeons were a maze of twisty corridors, all alike. Given the memory limitations, it's understandable that the earliest games didn't come with an automap, but it baffles me that later titles - even modern titles! - don't include this basic feature. I've never met /anyone/ who really enjoyed the mazes or the requirement to hand-draw the maps to get through these sorts of games.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Dimensional Traveler
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 15:38
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 15:38
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On 7/7/2017 6:20 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote: > On Thu, 6 Jul 2017 13:12:37 -0700, Dimensional Traveler > <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote: > > >>> Apparently the sequel was canceled along with a couple other SW games in >>> the wake of Disney's taking of the franchise. >>> >> I'm still confused about The Mouse's decision to forgo making more >> obscene amounts of money off computer games when they bought Lucas. >> Heck, video/computer games has been a bigger industry than movies for >> several years now. > > Disney isn't opposed to Star Wars video games; they are opposed to > making the games /themselves/. They have divested themselves of their > entire entertainment software division. Any future Star Wars games (or > Mickey Mouse, or Marvel comics, or...) will be licensed to other > developers. > > This actually makes sense from a finiancial stand-point. Computer > games are an extremely risky investment. Triple-A games cost upwards > of $100 million dollars, and the audience can be extremely fickle. Bet > on the wrong platform, or fail to nail the gameplay, or just misread > the audience's desires and you got a very expensive bomb on your > hands. It's killed more than one studio. While Disney is too large to > be taken down by a bad game, they are averse to losing money. By > licensing, they get the benefit - cash in the bank - with almost no > risk; even if the game flops, they still get paid by the developer > (albeit maybe not as much). > > It is unfortunate that Disney killed all of LucasArts projects rather > than transferring them to other developers, but this isn't unusual, > and probably for the best. Projects that bounce between developers and > publishers usually do not result in quality games. > > I believe EA currently has an extended license to Star Wars. We're > getting another Battlefront from DICE, the Dead Space developers > (Visceral) are doing a third-person action game, as are Respawn > Entertainment (developers of Titanfall) and there are rumors of a new > single-player Knights of the Old Republic by Bioware. Plus, while > recent selections may not have been to everybody's taste, numerous > Star Wars games have been released under Disney's aegis, including two > Lego Star Wars titles, 2016's Battlefront, and the continued expansion > of The Old Republic MMORPG. So it would be inaccurate to say Disney > isn't interested in Star Wars computer games. > Thanks for the info. Still a bit of a shame that all the non-SW computer games LucasArts used to make got killed though. -- Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation instinct are running screaming.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Xocyll
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 17:48
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 17:48
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Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say: >On 7/6/2017 9:49 AM, Justisaur wrote: >> On 7/5/2017 2:29 PM, rms wrote: >> >> I'm kind of interested in trying Need for Speed SE now as I missed all >> >> those driving games back in the day. >> > >> > I still consider this title the best in the series. I think I >> > steered with just a keyboard, though I think it could recognize >> > something like a 8-direction digital gamepad (not sure on that). >> I bought my logitech controller to deal with that sort of issue. I >> haven't had any luck setting up dosbox to work with it, but then I >> didn't try very hard yet. >> >> > >> >> Star Wars: Republic Commando (2005 Squad FPS) >> > >> > Sorry you didn't like this one, I rather enjoyed it. Didn't I hear >> > some recent blurb that a sequel of some sort was in the works? Or am I >> > spouting nonsense >> I kind of enjoyed it, It's just a bit dated and has some control issues, >> it's still playable, just slightly annoying. I might go back to it, >> especially if I can get a controller to work with it, and one that works >> better than mouse, or maybe there's some mods out there to fix it. After >> a search, I found some for graphics, one for mouse - but only in menus >> which isn't where it bothers me, and one to make the xbox 360 controller >> 'mostly work'. Doesn't sound terribly promising. >> >> I started up Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel the other day, I can see the >> control issues with SWRC quite starkly going from one to the other. On >> the plus side with SWRC, it's awfully nice to play an FPS that isn't >> dependent on random loot and knowing how to build your character, though >> I'm still irritated at the use of ammo in SW universe, when have we ever >> seen a blaster run out of ammo? Not to mention Borderlands is getting a >> bit stale with yet more of the same, just slightly different. >> >> Apparently the sequel was canceled along with a couple other SW games in >> the wake of Disney's taking of the franchise. >> >I'm still confused about The Mouse's decision to forgo making more >obscene amounts of money off computer games when they bought Lucas. >Heck, video/computer games has been a bigger industry than movies for >several years now. Perhaps they're just trying to amalgamate their IPs and just need the right script before they can push their very own Duck Lord of the Sith. (Hrm would that be Donald or Scrooge?) Xocyll -- I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Dimensional Traveler
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 18:31
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 18:31
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On 7/7/2017 10:48 AM, Xocyll wrote: > Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> looked up from reading the > entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs > say: > >> On 7/6/2017 9:49 AM, Justisaur wrote: >>> On 7/5/2017 2:29 PM, rms wrote: >>> >> I'm kind of interested in trying Need for Speed SE now as I missed all >>> >> those driving games back in the day. >>> > >>> > I still consider this title the best in the series. I think I >>> > steered with just a keyboard, though I think it could recognize >>> > something like a 8-direction digital gamepad (not sure on that). >>> I bought my logitech controller to deal with that sort of issue. I >>> haven't had any luck setting up dosbox to work with it, but then I >>> didn't try very hard yet. >>> >>> > >>> >> Star Wars: Republic Commando (2005 Squad FPS) >>> > >>> > Sorry you didn't like this one, I rather enjoyed it. Didn't I hear >>> > some recent blurb that a sequel of some sort was in the works? Or am I >>> > spouting nonsense >>> I kind of enjoyed it, It's just a bit dated and has some control issues, >>> it's still playable, just slightly annoying. I might go back to it, >>> especially if I can get a controller to work with it, and one that works >>> better than mouse, or maybe there's some mods out there to fix it. After >>> a search, I found some for graphics, one for mouse - but only in menus >>> which isn't where it bothers me, and one to make the xbox 360 controller >>> 'mostly work'. Doesn't sound terribly promising. >>> >>> I started up Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel the other day, I can see the >>> control issues with SWRC quite starkly going from one to the other. On >>> the plus side with SWRC, it's awfully nice to play an FPS that isn't >>> dependent on random loot and knowing how to build your character, though >>> I'm still irritated at the use of ammo in SW universe, when have we ever >>> seen a blaster run out of ammo? Not to mention Borderlands is getting a >>> bit stale with yet more of the same, just slightly different. >>> >>> Apparently the sequel was canceled along with a couple other SW games in >>> the wake of Disney's taking of the franchise. >>> >> I'm still confused about The Mouse's decision to forgo making more >> obscene amounts of money off computer games when they bought Lucas. >> Heck, video/computer games has been a bigger industry than movies for >> several years now. > > Perhaps they're just trying to amalgamate their IPs and just need the > right script before they can push their very own Duck Lord of the Sith. > > (Hrm would that be Donald or Scrooge?) > Scrooge is the CEO, Donald is just the press flack, while Mickey is the puppet master at the upper end of the strings. :) -- Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation instinct are running screaming.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: rri... Ross Ridge
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 20:45
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 20:45
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Spalls Hurgenson <spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote: >See, that's a big difference between you and me. I uninstall games >/all/ the time. Finished with a game? Off it goes. No lingering about >on the hard-drive for my games; I want that space back. It's not even >that I necessarily /need/ the space - I currently have 500GB free on >the games hard-drive alone - but I just don't like unused programs >sitting on my system. This is an old habit learned from my DOS - and >pre-DOS - days when disk-space was at a premium, and I've never >bothered to unlearn it. I remember that when I got Ultima VII - which >weighed in at a whopping 22MB! - I had to uninstall almost all my >other games and half my applications just to get enough disk space. >That sort of lesson sticks with a person ;-) I completely unlearned that. When I bought my own PC in 1999 it came with a 10 GB drive. It was huge, and I thought I could never use up all that space. I knew I was wrong, but it was hard to imagine how I could ever run out disk space with a drive that big. Needless to say it didn't take long for me to fill it up and so my days of having uninstalling stuff to make room for new stuff weren't over yet. But then I got a 30 GB drive, then a 120 GB drive, then 1.5 TB drive, and then 3 TB drive. Now I have four 3 TB drives and a 500 MB SSD. With storage space being so cheap, a 3 TB drive is only $100, the days of having to worry about running out of disk space are long gone. I've even got a couple of old MMORPGs installed whose servers shutdown years ago, but why delete them? I've got 700 GB free on my game drive, and almost 3TB free across all of them. And that's with pretty much every game I own installed. On the other hand, I still have to worry about download limits. I've got 46 GB left in my monthly limit, which rolls over at the end of today. I'm right now installing Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor which is a 42 GB download. I'm debating whether I should stop it before it finishes. In theory it I have enough quota left, but I did stream some HD shows late last night after the 46 GB number was calculated. Plus my ISP counts additional overhead that the Steam client doesn't. I think I'll risk it, as it's only $2 a GB if I go over. >The worst was the games that spun you around to purposefully disorient >you. It was such obvious padding and absolutely no fun. It didn't help >that the games had such short draw distance (three tiles for Bards >Tale, MM1 and Dragon Wars) and the limited graphics capabilities of >the time meant that all the dungeons were a maze of twisty corridors, >all alike. Given the memory limitations, it's understandable that the >earliest games didn't come with an automap, but it baffles me that >later titles - even modern titles! - don't include this basic feature. >I've never met /anyone/ who really enjoyed the mazes or the >requirement to hand-draw the maps to get through these sorts of games. I didn't have much of a problem with having to make my own maps back in the day, but when automaps started to be incorporated into the games I never wanted to go back. It didn't mind the lack of automap in the Eye of Beholder games though, but that's because I didn't bother with mapping at all. The dungeon layout wasn't too complicated and there weren't all those darkness, spinner and teleporter squares. I used to have the dungeon layout pretty well memorized for EOB1, to the point I could load an old save and quickly go from the top of the dungeon to the bottom years after last playing it. I don't think I could do that today though. -- l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU [oo][oo] rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca -()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ db //
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Spalls Hurgenson
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2017 13:13
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2017 13:13
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On Fri, 7 Jul 2017 08:38:08 -0700, Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote: >Thanks for the info. Still a bit of a shame that all the non-SW >computer games LucasArts used to make got killed though. Oh, definitely. I was looking forward to 1313, even given its already troubled history (apparently George "I like to meddle" Lucas was constantly demanding changes, not least of which was changing the protagonist to Boba "He sells toys" Fett ;-) But its not unusual for games to die on the vine when publishers are closed or sold; it's far more unusual when they don't. Even incomplete, the assets have value (although I'm sure Disney would have allowed some other publisher to use them to finish the game /if/ that publisher paid a high-enough price for them). As importantly, Disney is aware of how a bad game can devalue the price of the license and may have kept the in-development games off-market because of that (games that jump development houses rarely do well). So maybe one day we'll see ideas first formulated for 1313 (or other in-development Star Wars projects) re-imagined in a new movie, comic, book or game. LucasArts was closed in 2013; we're starting to get news of upcoming Star Wars games now. Four years really isn't that unusual a length of time given the necessity of forging licensing agreements, pre-development and then the actual authoring of a new triple-A title. It's not like the 80s when developers could whip out a game in three or six months; even were the workload less, just getting the budget and approval for a game from the corporate motherships (both from EA and Disney) probably took at least a year.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Dimensional Traveler
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2017 16:41
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2017 16:41
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On 7/8/2017 6:13 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote: > On Fri, 7 Jul 2017 08:38:08 -0700, Dimensional Traveler > <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote: > >> Thanks for the info. Still a bit of a shame that all the non-SW >> computer games LucasArts used to make got killed though. > > Oh, definitely. I was looking forward to 1313, even given its already > troubled history (apparently George "I like to meddle" Lucas was > constantly demanding changes, not least of which was changing the > protagonist to Boba "He sells toys" Fett ;-) > > But its not unusual for games to die on the vine when publishers are > closed or sold; it's far more unusual when they don't. Even > incomplete, the assets have value (although I'm sure Disney would have > allowed some other publisher to use them to finish the game /if/ that > publisher paid a high-enough price for them). As importantly, Disney > is aware of how a bad game can devalue the price of the license and > may have kept the in-development games off-market because of that > (games that jump development houses rarely do well). So maybe one day > we'll see ideas first formulated for 1313 (or other in-development > Star Wars projects) re-imagined in a new movie, comic, book or game. > > LucasArts was closed in 2013; we're starting to get news of upcoming > Star Wars games now. Four years really isn't that unusual a length of > time given the necessity of forging licensing agreements, > pre-development and then the actual authoring of a new triple-A title. > It's not like the 80s when developers could whip out a game in three > or six months; even were the workload less, just getting the budget > and approval for a game from the corporate motherships (both from EA > and Disney) probably took at least a year. > House of Mouse was a little more drastic than stopping development of in progress games. There was at least one game that was ready to ship that they killed. I live in the area all the Lucas companies are based in so we were hearing a bit more detail than the news organizations were giving. (Heck, back in the 80s I had a couple friends who worked for ILM.) The day after the sale entire Lucas companies were given notice of termination. Disney simply did not want anything that wasn't Star Wars movies, everything else was shut down immediately. The speed with which they did so made it clear they had been planning this for a long time and knew exactly what they were doing. Other stuff that is slowly being revived is because someone has been trying to convince The Mouse how stupid that was. -- Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation instinct are running screaming.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Mike S.
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2017 19:55
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2017 19:55
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On Thu, 6 Jul 2017 17:34:12 +0000 (UTC), rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Ross Ridge) wrote: >Yah, that's the one big problem with going back the older dungeon crawlers >like Might and Magic I, no automap. If I were replaying it today, I'd >probably just cheat and use maps from the Internet. (Even back in the >day after I completely mapped out a level in the Bard's Tale games I'd >use a program I wrote to print out a map of the level generated from >game's data files.) In my experience, automaps in old RPGs, especially really old RPGs, are very basic. Too basic for my tastes. I'm looking at you Gold Box games! I rarely used them and opted to just draw them out myself on graph paper. These days however, I map out games that require it with software. The software I use even has built in support for some games so you can see your character moving on the map as you move around in-game. Cool feature. With that said, some games automaps were better then anything I could do by hand so I used the in-game automap instead in those games. Anvil of Dawn, Lands of Lore and Ultima Underworld 1 and 2 comes to mind as games with excellent automaps.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Mike S.
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2017 20:07
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2017 20:07
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On Fri, 07 Jul 2017 09:52:02 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson <spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote: >The worst was the games that spun you around to purposefully disorient >you. It was such obvious padding and absolutely no fun. Oh boy you should try the Bard's Tale 2 to see this feature at its absolute worst! In one of the game's castles, you end up in an area with spinners, darkness squares, and spell fizzle squares all at the same time. It was at that exact moment that I said, fuck this, I am done with Bard's Tale 2. When I told Ross in my other post that this game had way too much of this crap, I wasn't joking. No other old school RPG I have ever played hit me with all of those negative conditions at the same damn time. > It didn't help >that the games had such short draw distance (three tiles for Bards >Tale, MM1 and Dragon Wars) and the limited graphics capabilities of >the time meant that all the dungeons were a maze of twisty corridors, >all alike. Given the memory limitations, it's understandable that the >earliest games didn't come with an automap, but it baffles me that >later titles - even modern titles! - don't include this basic feature. >I've never met /anyone/ who really enjoyed the mazes or the >requirement to hand-draw the maps to get through these sorts of games. I like mapping out games myself. I tried using someone else's maps once when I was replaying Eye of the Beholder. I wasn't enjoying it. These days, however, I use software. But I have no problems using the in-game automap if it does not suck. I just don't like using someone else's already completed map that I found online.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Xocyll
Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2017 11:15
Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2017 11:15
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Mike S. <Mik...@nowhere.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say: >On Fri, 07 Jul 2017 09:52:02 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson ><spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>The worst was the games that spun you around to purposefully disorient >>you. It was such obvious padding and absolutely no fun. > >Oh boy you should try the Bard's Tale 2 to see this feature at its >absolute worst! In one of the game's castles, you end up in an area >with spinners, darkness squares, and spell fizzle squares all at the >same time. It was at that exact moment that I said, fuck this, I am >done with Bard's Tale 2. When I told Ross in my other post that this >game had way too much of this crap, I wasn't joking. No other old >school RPG I have ever played hit me with all of those negative >conditions at the same damn time. On the flip side though, if you were the designer of the dungeon and trying to keep out all those pesky adventurers there to steal your stuff and/or kill you, wouldn't you pull out all the stops and use every trick in the book to stop them? We really do need to get a proper modern remake of Dungeon Keeper (not a blatant micro-transaction store masquerading as a game.) Xocyll -- I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Xocyll
Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2017 11:17
Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2017 11:17
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Mike S. <Mik...@nowhere.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say: >On Thu, 6 Jul 2017 17:34:12 +0000 (UTC), rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca >(Ross Ridge) wrote: > >>Yah, that's the one big problem with going back the older dungeon crawlers >>like Might and Magic I, no automap. If I were replaying it today, I'd >>probably just cheat and use maps from the Internet. (Even back in the >>day after I completely mapped out a level in the Bard's Tale games I'd >>use a program I wrote to print out a map of the level generated from >>game's data files.) > >In my experience, automaps in old RPGs, especially really old RPGs, >are very basic. Too basic for my tastes. I'm looking at you Gold Box >games! I rarely used them and opted to just draw them out myself on >graph paper. > >These days however, I map out games that require it with software. The >software I use even has built in support for some games so you can see >your character moving on the map as you move around in-game. Cool >feature. > >With that said, some games automaps were better then anything I could >do by hand so I used the in-game automap instead in those games. Anvil >of Dawn, Lands of Lore and Ultima Underworld 1 and 2 comes to mind as >games with excellent automaps. Didn't the UU games have the best of both worlds? an automap that let you write notes on the map? Xocyll -- I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Spalls Hurgenson
Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2017 13:40
Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2017 13:40
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On Sun, 09 Jul 2017 07:17:09 -0400, Xocyll <Xoc...@gmx.com> wrote: >Mike S. <Mik...@nowhere.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the >porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say: > >>With that said, some games automaps were better then anything I could >>do by hand so I used the in-game automap instead in those games. Anvil >>of Dawn, Lands of Lore and Ultima Underworld 1 and 2 comes to mind as >>games with excellent automaps. > >Didn't the UU games have the best of both worlds? an automap that let >you write notes on the map? It did indeed. It still is one of the best automaps in any game, partly because of the aforementioned note-keeping feature, but also because it did a pretty good mapping the area /and/ it looked very nice too (you know, like a real hand-drawn map might look). I generally like maps and making maps, but not of mazes and labyrinths. Personally, I always found the mazes of earlier (and sadly, some modern) CRPGs pointless and unrealistic*. My favorite part of the original Bards Tale, for instance, was the overworld city. The original Might & Magic was astounding /because/ of its world, not because of its dungeons. The dungeons in the Ultima games were the least enjoyable part. The only dungeon-maze I really ever enjoyed playing through was the Modron dungeon from Planescape: Torment, but that of course was because it was making fun of the whole concept Even today, when I run table-top RPGs, I never use maze-like dungeons. If I do use a dungeon, it has a logic and purpose to it. Mazes aren't fun; they are tiresome padding used by designers who can't think of better ways to challenge their players. * unrealistic even by the standards of a world where the chicks wear chain-mail bikinis and 20 ton dragons can fly on stubby 20' wings)
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Mike S.
Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2017 14:03
Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2017 14:03
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On Sun, 09 Jul 2017 07:17:09 -0400, Xocyll <Xoc...@gmx.com> wrote: >Didn't the UU games have the best of both worlds? an automap that let >you write notes on the map? > >Xocyll Yes it did. In truth, Ultima Underworld probably had the best automap of any game I have ever played. It just looked the best and functioned the best. Another game that comes to mind that had a good automap that let you write on it was the first Elder Scrolls game.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Mike S.
Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2017 14:06
Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2017 14:06
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On Sun, 09 Jul 2017 07:15:56 -0400, Xocyll <Xoc...@gmx.com> wrote: >On the flip side though, if you were the designer of the dungeon and >trying to keep out all those pesky adventurers there to steal your stuff >and/or kill you, wouldn't you pull out all the stops and use every trick >in the book to stop them? Well on the flip side, I would put all my minions at the entrance\exit of my dungeon to keep the heroes out. Not scatter them piece-meal throughout the entire dungeon to be slaughtered one at a time. ;) Also, the particular place I was talking about was a castle, not a dungeon. Maybe the owner of this castle was just paranoid. Very paranoid. Exceedingly paranoid.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: rri... Ross Ridge
Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2017 19:02
Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2017 19:02
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Mike S. <Mik...@nowhere.com> wrote: >Oh boy you should try the Bard's Tale 2 to see this feature at its >absolute worst! In one of the game's castles, you end up in an area >with spinners, darkness squares, and spell fizzle squares all at the >same time. It was at that exact moment that I said, fuck this, I am >done with Bard's Tale 2. When I told Ross in my other post that this >game had way too much of this crap, I wasn't joking. No other old >school RPG I have ever played hit me with all of those negative >conditions at the same damn time. The worst part of Bard's Tale 2 though were the Death Snares, puzzles at the end of dungeons you had to solve within some time limit or your entire party would die. And of course these rooms would also have their share of spinner, darkness, anti-magic, etc... squares. -- l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU [oo][oo] rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca -()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ db //
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: rri... Ross Ridge
Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2017 20:52
Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2017 20:52
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Spalls Hurgenson <spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote: >It did indeed. It still is one of the best automaps in any game, >partly because of the aforementioned note-keeping feature, but also >because it did a pretty good mapping the area /and/ it looked very >nice too (you know, like a real hand-drawn map might look). Ultima Underworld still had the grid-based maps of the earlier Wizardry-style dungeon crawlers though. That made generating good maps from the raw data easier. Later 3D games weren't constrained to a grid, everything is just polygons. Even something like distinguishing whether some polygon is a floor or a wall or not significant at all becomes tricky. >I generally like maps and making maps, but not of mazes and >labyrinths. Personally, I always found the mazes of earlier (and >sadly, some modern) CRPGs pointless and unrealistic*. My favorite part >of the original Bards Tale, for instance, was the overworld city. The >original Might & Magic was astounding /because/ of its world, not >because of its dungeons. The dungeons in the Ultima games were the >least enjoyable part. Ultima Underworld 1 was all dungeon though, but at least there was some sense to maps. It wasn't just a big maze. Ultima Underworld 2 was much better in this regard. It didn't feal the need to fill up each level up the limits of the map so the levels felt more real. -- l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU [oo][oo] rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca -()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ db //
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Xocyll
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 12:52
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 12:52
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Spalls Hurgenson <spallsh...@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say: >On Sun, 09 Jul 2017 07:17:09 -0400, Xocyll <Xoc...@gmx.com> wrote: > >>Mike S. <Mik...@nowhere.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the >>porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say: >> > >>>With that said, some games automaps were better then anything I could >>>do by hand so I used the in-game automap instead in those games. Anvil >>>of Dawn, Lands of Lore and Ultima Underworld 1 and 2 comes to mind as >>>games with excellent automaps. >> >>Didn't the UU games have the best of both worlds? an automap that let >>you write notes on the map? > >It did indeed. It still is one of the best automaps in any game, >partly because of the aforementioned note-keeping feature, but also >because it did a pretty good mapping the area /and/ it looked very >nice too (you know, like a real hand-drawn map might look). I remember being highly impressed by it at the time. >I generally like maps and making maps, but not of mazes and >labyrinths. Personally, I always found the mazes of earlier (and >sadly, some modern) CRPGs pointless and unrealistic*. <snip> >* unrealistic even by the standards of a world where the chicks wear >chain-mail bikinis and 20 ton dragons can fly on stubby 20' wings) Well the chain bikini really has no defense (other than maybe "make them want to rape you rather than kill you", but in a hot chick with knife attacking me, I'm still going to focus on the knife part not the hot chick part. You can always get some without the drama from a tavern serving wench after all. The dragons; well they are magical, and they do breathe fire generally, so they'd be full of hot air... Maybe they can magically alter their weight/mass/density and they'd really actually small and skinny and are merely puffed up like a pufferfish to look more imposing. Xocyll -- I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Xocyll
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 12:59
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 12:59
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Mike S. <Mik...@nowhere.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say: >On Sun, 09 Jul 2017 07:15:56 -0400, Xocyll <Xoc...@gmx.com> wrote: > >>On the flip side though, if you were the designer of the dungeon and >>trying to keep out all those pesky adventurers there to steal your stuff >>and/or kill you, wouldn't you pull out all the stops and use every trick >>in the book to stop them? > >Well on the flip side, I would put all my minions at the entrance\exit >of my dungeon to keep the heroes out. Not scatter them piece-meal >throughout the entire dungeon to be slaughtered one at a time. ;) Wouldn't that make it rather hard for you and your delivery people to get in and out as well though? >Also, the particular place I was talking about was a castle, not a >dungeon. Maybe the owner of this castle was just paranoid. Very >paranoid. Exceedingly paranoid. Some people are, especially if they own a spooky castle that attracts "adventurers" like flies to cow shit. All it takes is someone spreading malicious rumors about you ad the next thing you know, you're a "monster" with loads of loot waiting to be taken by some self styled "heroes". No fixed address, no problem killing anyone, anywhere as long as there is loot and some "justification," they wander the countryside going on adventures where they kill slaughter the entire inhabitants of "dungeons" and such - sounds more like serial killers than heroes if you think about it. Xocyll -- I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Spalls Hurgenson
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 13:14
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 13:14
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On Sun, 9 Jul 2017 20:52:15 +0000 (UTC), rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Ross Ridge) wrote: >Ultima Underworld still had the grid-based maps of the earlier >Wizardry-style dungeon crawlers though. That made generating good >maps from the raw data easier. Later 3D games weren't constrained to a >grid, everything is just polygons. Even something like distinguishing >whether some polygon is a floor or a wall or not significant at all >becomes tricky. Ultima Underworld was a free-roaming 3D game, and not at all grid-based - at least, not anymore than were games like Doom or Wolfenstein 3D. There was still an underlying grid to which the walls snapped but the engine did not require 90-degree corners and the level design felt very natural. You could go over and under parts of the level geometry. IIRC, it wasn't "true 3D" in that it still used a ray-casting engine with some 3D trickery (which became obvious when you looked up or down and the perspective and textures warped weirdly) but it was pretty advanced for a computer game of its time and far more complex than the grid-hopping CRPGs that preceded it, like Pool of Radiance or even Eye of the Beholder.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: rri... Ross Ridge
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 17:56
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 17:56
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rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Ross Ridge) wrote:
>Ultima Underworld still had the grid-based maps of the earlier
>Wizardry-style dungeon crawlers though. That made generating good
>maps from the raw data easier. Later 3D games weren't constrained to a
>grid, everything is just polygons. Even something like distinguishing
>whether some polygon is a floor or a wall or not significant at all
becomes tricky.
Spalls Hurgenson <spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Ultima Underworld was a free-roaming 3D game, and not at all
>grid-based - at least, not anymore than were games like Doom or
>Wolfenstein 3D. There was still an underlying grid to which the walls
>snapped but the engine did not require 90-degree corners and the level
>design felt very natural.
The raw map data used by Ultima Underworld was in the same basic grid
format as used by Wizardry-style dungeon crawlers. The walls didn't
snap to anything, their shape and position in 3D space were determined a
simple 2D array of squares were each element stored a short set values
indicating things like what walls were present in the square. It could
do things that Wizardry-style games couldn't, walls could be at 45 degree
angles and the floors slopped, but it was basically only an improved
version how the older games stored their maps. Contrast that a more
modern 3D engire where everything is just polygons, polygons that can
be of any shape and have any position.
> You could go over and under parts of the level geometry.
That was very limited, bridges had to be implemented as special 3D
objects. The engine could represent arbitrary shaped and positioned
polygons, but this was only used in a few places.
>IIRC, it wasn't "true 3D" in that it still used a
>ray-casting engine with some 3D trickery (which became obvious when
>you looked up or down and the perspective and textures warped weirdly)
>but it was pretty advanced for a computer game of its time and far
>more complex than the grid-hopping CRPGs that preceded it, like Pool
>of Radiance or even Eye of the Beholder.
No, it used "true 3D" rendering, the same basic 3D texture mapping used in
modern video games today, except with one kludge: a necessary division on
every pixel was only approximated. Floating-point division is very slow
operation, about 90 cycles if you were lucky enough to have an 80387 FPU,
and hundreds of cycles if you were stuck with software floating-point.
You can confirm with from an old post by Chris Green, the author of the
3D texture mapping code in UW:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.programmer/h8vHpOW_-Fc/fWfTG988r1MJ
You can also read more about how UW stores its map data in a couple of
posts I made in that thread. I've also posted a simple QBasic program
that can display the UW map, but it only works in the demo. Here's a
version that works with the released game (you need to run it in the DATA
directory, change line "n = 0" according to level you want displayed):
DEF SEG = &HB800
' By Ross Ridge, Public Domain
OPEN "lev.ark" FOR BINARY ACCESS READ AS 1
CLS
SCREEN 12
n = 0
GET 1, n * 4 + 3, offset&
offset& = offset& + 1
ad = 0
DRAW "BM96,16"
FOR y% = 0 TO 63
FOR x% = 0 TO 63
GET 1, (63 - y%) * 256 + x% * 4 + offset&, A%
c% = (A% / 16 + 1) AND 15
IF (c% = 0) THEN c% = 15
COLOR c%
A$ = "C" + STR$(c%)
DRAW "X" + VARPTR$(A$)
A% = A% AND 15
SELECT CASE A%
CASE 1
LINE STEP(0, 0)-STEP(6, 6), , BF
DRAW "BU6BR"
CASE 5
DRAW "R6G6U6"
PAINT STEP(1, 1), c%, c%
DRAW "BEBR5"
CASE 4
DRAW "R6D6H6"
PAINT STEP(2, 1), c%, c%
DRAW "BEBR4"
CASE 3
DRAW "F6L6U6"
PAINT STEP(1, 2), c%, c%
DRAW "BU2BR6"
CASE 2
DRAW "BR6G6R6U6"
PAINT STEP(-1, 2), c%, c%
DRAW "BU2BR2"
CASE 6
LINE STEP(0, 0)-STEP(6, 6), , BF
DRAW "C0BL3BUNU4NH2E2BU3BR2"
CASE 7
LINE STEP(0, 0)-STEP(6, 6), , BF
DRAW "C0BL3BUU4NG2NF2BU1BR4"
CASE 8
LINE STEP(0, 0)-STEP(6, 6), , BF
DRAW "C0BU3BLL4NF2NE2BU3BR6"
CASE 9
LINE STEP(0, 0)-STEP(6, 6), , BF
DRAW "C0BU3BLNL4NH2NG2BU3BR2"
CASE 0
DRAW "BR7"
CASE ELSE
DRAW "F6BU6BR"
END SELECT
NEXT x%
DRAW "BL448BD7"
NEXT y%
END
DO
A$ = INKEY$
LOOP WHILE A$ = "" OR A$ = CHR$(0)
--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/
db //
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Author: Xocyll
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 10:52
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 10:52
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Mike S. <Mik...@nowhere.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say: >On Sun, 09 Jul 2017 07:17:09 -0400, Xocyll <Xoc...@gmx.com> wrote: > >>Didn't the UU games have the best of both worlds? an automap that let >>you write notes on the map? >> >>Xocyll > >Yes it did. In truth, Ultima Underworld probably had the best automap >of any game I have ever played. It just looked the best and functioned >the best. Yeah, it looked like they really tried to make it the best they could and fit in the game setting. It's those little details so often overlooked. Origin really did live up to their tagline of "we create worlds". >Another game that comes to mind that had a good automap that let you >write on it was the first Elder Scrolls game. Been so long since I played Arena I have no memory of the map at all. Xocyll -- I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
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