🚀 go-pugleaf

RetroBBS NetNews Server

Inspired by RockSolid Light RIP Retro Guy

Thread View: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
48 messages
48 total messages Started by Spalls Hurgenson Mon, 03 Jul 2017 01:15
What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698024
Author: Spalls Hurgenson
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 01:15
217 lines
13356 bytes
Yes, yes, yes, I know, I know. This thread is very late. In my defense
I've had a busy few days, not helped the least by the sunburn covering
three quarters of my body (it's not so much as its painful as that
sunburns make me sleepy). But here's the thread started at last.

This month I've either played very few games, or achieved a record
high number, depending on how you count things. Much of my time was
spent delving into the intricacies of DOSBox and ancient DOS gaming.
Although I only finished three games to completion, I touched at least
sixty other titles. Some only occupied my time for a few minutes,
while others entertained me for hours and hours. The DOS environment
itself was almost as enthralling, as I relearned the "skills" of the
command-line, BATCH files and Windows .INI files.


--------------------
Short and Sweet
--------------------

* The Orion Conspiracy (new)
* Indiana Jones & the Fate of Atlantis (replay)
* The Last of Us (replay)
* DOSBox!!!!


TL; DR 
----------

* The Orion Conspiracy (new)
If I were pressed to list a few of my favorite games ever, 1995's
"Mission Critical" by Legend Entertainment would rank near the top. A
beautifully illustrated, well-written game with solid puzzles and an
excellent story, it was a mature and thought-provoking sci-fi
adventure; a stark contrast to its competitors, which too often relied
on trope-filled fantasy and comedy situations with inane and illogical
challenges. But "Mission Critical" wasn't the only adventure game
released that year which promised a more adult take on sci-fi than the
usual space-opera that was an all too commonly-used genre in computer
gaming; there was also Domark's "The Orion Conspiracy". Less focused,
the ad-copy promised, on battles between good and evil or aliens vs
humans, it was a more grounded story that starts simply enough when a
grieving father arrives at a distant space station to investigate the
death of his recently-deceased son.

"The Orion Conspiracy" came and went with very little splash; it got
poor reviews and disappeared from store shelves quite soon after it
was released. Yet it was a game that I have long wanted to play, and
after more than two decades of (not-very-intensive) searching, I was
fortunate enough to get my hands on a copy.

Initial impressions were not kind. Despite promises of "CD quality
music", I never got the game to output its soundtrack as anything but
MIDI. Now, this is not necessarily a bad thing; a properly written
MIDI soundtrack can be quite impressive and be far more reactive to
the gameplay than Redbook audio, but this game's music boasted neither
of these. Even with a wavetable soundcard and a decent patch-set, the
game sounded little better than the peeps and pops you might have
heard on an ancient Adlib FM synthesizer. It wasn't even very good
music; just a dull collection of droning melodies that made me want to
quickly drop the volume so I wouldn't have to listen to it anymore.
The game did boast full voice-acting and the quality of the wave files
was acceptable, but the acting itself was poor; stilted, and full of
mispronunciations and weirdly emphasized. The background artwork was
acceptable and in some places even quite interesting (at least when
viewed through the filter of a 1995 gamer) but the character sprites
were badly detailed and poorly animated, looking little better than
what you might have seen from a game five years its junior.

Unfortunately, the gameplay itself was little better. Its 30 or so
characters had very detailed back-stories, but all this history was
wasted by the terrible voice-acting and lack of any real
interactivity. The game was a more "mature" adventure only in the fact
that some of its characters cursed like sailors, but otherwise it
failed to be thought provoking in any way. The puzzles were fairly
mundane, but too often I was left without any direction; solving the
puzzles wasn't the hard part, but finding them was. The map layout was
horrid; the space station where the action took place was divided into
multiple floors, but access to the different floors required constant
backtracking to the elevators scattered on level 2. Plus, in the end,
the plot devolved to yet-another-alien-invasion storyline. 

Sometimes anticipation of a game is far, far more enjoyable than
actually playing the damn thing.




* Indiana Jones & the Fate of Atlantis (replay)
Viewed from a distance, 1992's "Fate of Atlantis" is an unexceptional
game; it's a run-of-the-mill adventure game from the mid-90s with all
the usual tropes and problems those titles. Its puzzles were often
illogical "guess-what-the-developer-is-thinking" type-challenges, with
a fairly nonsensical story requiring an unfortunate amount of
backtracking. 

Visually, the game is run-of-the-mill, but not without charm. Much of
its background art lacks in detail and character, but there are a few
scenes that are quite memorable. The animation is well done and
varied, and the tiny sprites are surprisingly emotive given how few
pixels are used in their creation. While the soundtrack - MIDI based,
as was common for games of its era - lacks the weight of a more modern
soundtrack, the game utilized the available technology fairly well and
the music - never annoying - supported the story and action far more
often than it hindered it. 

The puzzles were not the greatest - and some, such as the interminable
hot-air balloon sequence - were obvious padding - but many felt
natural extensions of the current situation. Some did suffer by
requiring the player to repeatedly backtrack between two or three
locations to find the necessary item (often by trial and error,
because the solution was randomized). Yet these faults were
counter-balanced by the fact that the game offered three distinct
story-lines (they three stories rejoined near the end); quantity in
this case more than made up for a slight deficiency in quality. The
voice-acting was surprisingly good for a game produced in the mid 90s,
too.

"Fate of Atlantis" will never top my "favorite adventures ever" list,
but its decent production values and variety of gameplay make up for
the fact that it doesn't really evolve the genre in any way. It was a
solid title well worth revisiting.




* The Last of Us (replay)
I didn't get very far with this game, but it's all my fault. Having
played through the game two or three times before, I thought I was
ready for the hardest difficulty level. It turns out that while I can
fight and sneak my way through the game that way, the constant
challenge and reloading drained the fun right out of the experience.
"The Last of Us'" strength is in the character of its world and its
protagonists, and that is lost when one is constantly forced to focus
on the enemies rather than the beautiful scenery or the tiny, optional
interactions between the protagonists. Playing on hard also made me
realize how shallow the actual gameplay of the game was; with its lack
of variety in monsters and puzzles. I struggled through about half of
the game before I just finally tired of the whole thing and decided to
move on. I know one day I'll give "The Last of Us" another try, but
I'll do it with the difficulty cranked down so I can experience the
game's strengths - its world-building - rather than its weaker
elements, such as its gameplay.

* DOSBox!!!!
I've maintained a DOSBox installation on my hard-drive for more than a
decade. DOSBox is an invaluable tool for a PC gamer who wants to
re-experience the highs - and the lows - of old-school gaming. I'm
thrilled that it's been taken up as a middle-ware tool by many
publishers so they can re-release their older titles. But I personally
prefer having a full DOSBox installation rather than relying on DOSBox
as an invisible shim used to get old-school games running on modern
hardware.

So this month I spent a lot of time playing around in DOSBox. While I
did use it to play numerous games, I had as much fun fiddling with the
DOSBox subsystems and revisiting the ancient DOS environment. I
successfully got the Gravis and Roland emulation working. I installed
Windows 3.11 and 4DOS. I reinstalled ancient DOS shells and
word-processors (the latter subsequently allowing me to read documents
I had written 20 years ago). I created an overly complicated DOS games
launcher through the power of DOS Batch file scripting. I had fun -
yes, fun - messing around with IRQ, DMA and I/O port settings. And I
played games.

Currently my installed DOS games are an eclectic and impressive
selection. While I didn't spend too much time playing on any one of
these games individually, all of them provided me a degree of
nostalgic entertainment. Alphabetically, these games included
Bioforge, Bards Tale (1-3, although I spent the most time on Bards
Tale 1), Bill Elliot's NASCAR Challenge, Commander Keen, Crusader No
Remorse, Cybermage Darklight Awakening (awful!), Darklands,
Destruction Derby, Doom, Dragon Wars (a game I loved so much I wrote
fanfic for it back in the day), F-117 Stealth Fighter 2.0, Falcon 3.0,
Flashback, Hexen, Ironman Stewart's Super Offroad Racing, Lemmings 1 &
2, Mission Critical, Master of Orion 1 & 2, Need For Speed Special Ed,
Nuclear War, One Must Fall 2097, Overkill, Populous 2, Pacific Strike,
Scorched Earth (shareware; I really should get around to registering
it one of these days :), SimCity and SimCity 2000, Star Trek 25th
Anniversary, Star Trek A Final Unity, Star Wars Dark Forces, Strike
Commander, Syndicate, Syndicate Wars, Terra Nova Strike Force
Centauri, Terminator 2029, Ultima 5, Ultima 7, Ultima 7.5, Ultima 8,
Underworld 1 & 2, 'Vette, Whiplash, Wing Commander 1, 2, Privateer and
Armada, Wings of Glory, Wolfenstein 3D and X-Com UFO Defense (whew!).
Fortunately, I had either imaged the original floppy disks or was able
to transfer the files over from the GOG.com installations (although in
a few cases I had to go out and re-purchase one of these classic
games). A number of them proved troublesome to install but that, after
all, was half the fun. 

Many of the games, admittedly, have not aged well. Almost of the games
that used the PC speaker for their sound effects are practically
unplayable as far as I am concerned, regardless of how entertaining
the rest of the game might be (I'm looking in your direction in
particular, 'Vette!). I was surprised at how difficult many of the
games were; truly we modern gamers have been spoiled both by varying
difficulty levels and iterative play-testing. Control schemes were
almost universally awful; even when they didn't require me to contort
my hand into uncomfortable positions, they were rarely as responsive
as required by the quick-paced action. But a few games remained
remarkably enjoyable (Need For Speed SE, for instance, kept me
wonderfully enthralled for hours and hours). 

I don't know how often I'll be returning to my DOSBox installation,
but I love that I have such a huge selection available at my
fingertips, all the more so since the whole thing weighs in at a
surprisingly light 10GB (less than the 1/3 the space required by one
modern game!). There are so many classic and often forgotten titles
from yesteryear and it's always a blast to revisit these archaic
experiences, both to enjoy the games themselves and to see how far our
hobby has advanced since those early years.

--------------------

So my month was full; I hope yours was equally so. Let's find out.

What have you been playing... IN JUNE 2017?
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698025
Author: Rin Stowleigh
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 10:15
17 lines
2537 bytes
On Sun, 02 Jul 2017 21:15:22 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson
<spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote:

>What have you been playing... IN JUNE 2017?

Far Cry Primal - Surprisingly good, and I recommend it.  2 more days
left on the 50% off sale.

Argo - A free to play tactical shooter, it's an Arma 3 conversion that
limits the battlefield to a smaller space with specific team
objectives, making it a worthwhile game rather than an open-world mess
like the Arma series has always been.  Best part about it is that
performance is much better than the Arma games, likely due to the
limited playable area on the maps.  Personally I think the guys at
Bohemia would do well to focus on games like this, rather than the
overly ambitious games with huge maps and insanely complex control
schemes.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698026
Author: rms
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 13:13
54 lines
4916 bytes
>What have you been playing... IN JUNE 2017?

Beyond Good & Evil

Judging by wiki articles, Michel Ancel had large ambitions for an open-world 
BG&E game with much free exploration, which ended up being constrained and 
squeezed down for consoles, but I had a great time with what his team 
released.  I'll just note things that stood out for me in my playthrough --  
not in any attempt to analyze the game, but more as an acknowledgement or 
celebration:

First was the female protagonist running an orphanage with multi-species 
kids, taking pictures of animals, with large colorful powerups:  Very 
approachable and cute.  The UI -- I was very pleased with the circular wheel 
menus, with their construction-paper-cutout design, and the alphanumeric 
code entry expanding-spiral layout was a delight to use.

Next is the cosmopolitan nature of the planet Hillys, and how unsurprising 
and normal is its presentation.  The casablancan Akuda bar, moraccan 
Pedestrian District, jamaican Mammago Garage, chinese Ming-Tsu's and their 
delightful musical themes.  There's a generosity of spirit and community 
shown here that is central to this game's appeal I think.

The plot and gameplay (no spoilers).  It's a good fairly straightforward 
plot, where one is tasked with Uncovering the Truth, with a nice ending 
twist that presumably would have been expanded upon in the projected 
trilogy's sequels.  The actual gameplay has a nice mix of stealth, 
exploration, and combat, which I thought well-balanced (except for a 
surprising ramp in difficulty in the ending boss battle, that took many many 
reloads and walkthrough consultations to master).

Next is the mystery of the title, which articles like 
http://www.thegamecritique.com/recent-posts/truth-propoganda-and-the-power-of-people-in-beyond-good-and-evil/314/ 
attempt to address.  Was there some 'journalistic integrity in the age of 
Baghdad Bob & YellowCake' influences, or even a Nietzschean connection?  Eh, 
probably not, but there's a cachet and mystique about it that lingers and is 
highly appealing.

Rumors of the prequel being developed are that it will provide both some 
background to Jade's parentage, as well as expand on the enigmatic ending of 
BG&E1.  There's one minor touch of detail that struck me with wonder 
repeatedly while cruising around Hillys, that I hope will be a cornerstone 
of BG&E2 -- that you could look up with your camera at the sky, and see a 
text popup about a star system or planet.  You only visit the moon in BG&E1, 
but Ancel emphasized repeatedly the scaling capabilities of the new engine, 
which opens up extremely exciting potential for visiting other worlds (see 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8IguhQqhAg )

I used a Widescreen patch http://ps2wide.net/pc.html  for the GoG version of 
the game, as well as an Inverted Mouse patch (from the GoG forums).  some 
screen flickering in the UI was mildly annoying, but apparently can be 
addressed by backing off on display quality in settings.

rms 
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698027
Author: rri... Ross Ridge
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 17:44
45 lines
3300 bytes
Spalls Hurgenson  <spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Many of the games, admittedly, have not aged well. Almost of the games
>that used the PC speaker for their sound effects are practically
>unplayable as far as I am concerned, regardless of how entertaining
>the rest of the game might be (I'm looking in your direction in
>particular, 'Vette!).

For some of the older games you've listed the PC port is pretty bad,
and you'd be better playing on different emulated system.  For example
the best version of Ultima V is the Commodore 128 version.  The graphics
are slightly better than the PC version and you get SID sound instead
of PC speaker beeps.  The Bard's Tale games and Dragon Age probably play
better on the Amiga for similar reasons. 

>I was surprised at how difficult many of the games were; truly we
>modern gamers have been spoiled both by varying difficulty levels and
>iterative play-testing.

Yah, by today's standards most games were pretty hardcore back then.
It makes it hard to play a lot of old games if you hadn't played them
back in the day.  Having to learn a weird control scheme while trying
to figure out how to play the game well enough to progress can make it
very frustrating.  Even back in the day I can think of a few games,
like Wizardry VII and Privateer, that I ran into a brick wall the first
time I played.  It wasn't until I gave the game a second (or third) was
able to get anywhere in them.  Still never finished a game of Privateer
to the end.

>I don't know how often I'll be returning to my DOSBox installation,
>but I love that I have such a huge selection available at my
>fingertips, all the more so since the whole thing weighs in at a
>surprisingly light 10GB (less than the 1/3 the space required by one
>modern game!).

That's bigger than I would've guessed from the list you gave.
My collection of 50+ MS-DOS games is only about 5GB and that includes
a fair bit of duplicate installs.

					Ross Ridge

-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //	  
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698028
Author: Mike S.
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2017 02:10
22 lines
2183 bytes
On Mon, 3 Jul 2017 17:44:10 +0000 (UTC), rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
(Ross Ridge) wrote:

>For some of the older games you've listed the PC port is pretty bad,
>and you'd be better playing on different emulated system.  For example
>the best version of Ultima V is the Commodore 128 version.  The graphics
>are slightly better than the PC version and you get SID sound instead
>of PC speaker beeps.  

Well there is this as far as music goes, although I never tried it -->

http://ultima.wikia.com/wiki/Ultima_V_Upgrade_Patch

And as for graphics, are you sure it looks better on the C-128 even
after a graphical scaler like hq3x is applied in Dosbox?

>The Bard's Tale games and Dragon Age probably play
>better on the Amiga for similar reasons. 

The Bard's Tale looks and sounds better on the Amiga winUAE emulator
but the DOS version plays better in DosBox. At least that was my
experience when I played through the Bard's Tale a few years ago.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698036
Author: Spalls Hurgenson
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2017 13:45
49 lines
4165 bytes
On Mon, 3 Jul 2017 17:44:10 +0000 (UTC), rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
(Ross Ridge) wrote:

>Spalls Hurgenson  <spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Many of the games, admittedly, have not aged well. Almost of the games
>>that used the PC speaker for their sound effects are practically
>>unplayable as far as I am concerned, regardless of how entertaining
>>the rest of the game might be (I'm looking in your direction in
>>particular, 'Vette!).
>
>For some of the older games you've listed the PC port is pretty bad,
>and you'd be better playing on different emulated system.  For example
>the best version of Ultima V is the Commodore 128 version.  The graphics
>are slightly better than the PC version and you get SID sound instead
>of PC speaker beeps.  The Bard's Tale games and Dragon Age probably play
>better on the Amiga for similar reasons. 

In fairness, the Ultima 5 installation has been patched with proper
MIDI support and now -with full Roland output - is the best available
version. ;-P

Bards Tale 3 is quite acceptable, thanks to Adlib support. Bards Tale
1 & 2 were playable, but the square-wave music from the PC
beeper-speaker was a significant downside. I originally played Dragon
Wars on my Apple II and the PC version is actually a step up from
that. 

The one game I just /couldn't/ play was Might & Magic 1. I tried to
play it, I really did, but its speaker effects made my ears bleed and
its CGA graphics made my eyes tear. It was quickly uninstalled (well,
DELTREE'd). 

>>but I love that I have such a huge selection available at my
>>fingertips, all the more so since the whole thing weighs in at a
>>surprisingly light 10GB (less than the 1/3 the space required by one
>>modern game!).

>That's bigger than I would've guessed from the list you gave.
>My collection of 50+ MS-DOS games is only about 5GB and that includes
>a fair bit of duplicate installs.

It's not just games; there's a whole bunch of Windows 3.11 stuff. Just
the screensavers - AfterDark, OriginFX, Johnny Castaway, Star Wars
Screen Entertainment - probably take 10s of megabytes! ;-) But many of
the games include full images of the original CD-ROMs so I don't have
to worry about swapping CDs (I almost killed my CD drive when I
started imaging everything back in the day ;-). Games like "Terra
Nova: Strike Force Centauri" or "Star Trek TNG: A Final Unity" take up
more than a half-gig each. It adds up.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698037
Author: Mike S.
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2017 15:53
13 lines
1896 bytes
On Tue, 04 Jul 2017 09:45:57 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson
<spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote:

>The one game I just /couldn't/ play was Might & Magic 1. I tried to
>play it, I really did, but its speaker effects made my ears bleed and
>its CGA graphics made my eyes tear. It was quickly uninstalled (well,
>DELTREE'd). 

Might & Magic 1 supports 16 color EGA. This game is better then
Wizardry or Bard's Tale to me. Huge game world. Actual quests to do.
And a combat system that is superior to other similar games of the
time in that your characters attack immediately rather then queuing up
attacks. This made a big difference to me.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698041
Author: Eddie Anderson
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 02:02
25 lines
1922 bytes
Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

<snip good stuff>

> So my month was full; I hope yours was equally so. Let's find out.
>
> What have you been playing... IN JUNE 2017?

Die Siedler von Catan (DOS; replay (obviously))

Also, I recommend the "Swan Song" version of STARMAP.EXE 
when replaying Master of Orion 1. I found it linked in the 
Realms Beyond forums.

And I no longer trust ORION.COM to create a decent map.  So 
I save each new map, then type Alt-GALAXY to reveal the map, 
and then decide whether any home worlds are too close to 
each other, and then quit.  If the home worlds were 
adequately far apart, then I load the saved game.  Otherwise 
I start a new game.



-- 
Eddie
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698029
Author: rri... Ross Ridge
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 17:04
37 lines
3253 bytes
Mike S.  <Mik...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>And as for graphics, are you sure it looks better on the C-128 even
>after a graphical scaler like hq3x is applied in Dosbox?

I'm sure you can use the same scalers under a Commodore 128 emulator, but
I've never really liked them personally myself.  The slightly improved
graphics I'm talking about a result of the PC and C64/C128 ports being
done by different people from the same base Apple II game.  Both games
greatly improved on the Apple II graphics, both use a resolution of
320x200, but the Commodore port is supposed to be slightly better done.
At least as far as the tile sets go.  Looking at dungeon screenshots the
PC version looks noticeably better, the C64/C128 dungeons appear to be
using 160x200 graphics, so maybe I'm wrong here.

>>The Bard's Tale games and Dragon Age probably play
>>better on the Amiga for similar reasons. 
>
>The Bard's Tale looks and sounds better on the Amiga winUAE emulator
>but the DOS version plays better in DosBox. At least that was my
>experience when I played through the Bard's Tale a few years ago.

Yah, when I tried running the C64, Amiga and IBM PC versions of Pool
of Radiance to see what version was better, I found using WinUAE to be
a pain.  That was something like 15 years ago though.  I was kind hoping
that the state of Amiga emulation had improved by now.

The great thing about DOSBox is that it's designed to play games first
and foremost.  (It's actually kind of a crappy emulator for things
aren't games.)  I remember reading a post by the person behind UAE or
WinUAE about how upset they were that all people wanted to do with it
was play games.

-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //	  
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698030
Author: Dimensional Traveler
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 17:31
38 lines
3576 bytes
On 7/5/2017 10:04 AM, Ross Ridge wrote:
> Mike S.  <Mik...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> And as for graphics, are you sure it looks better on the C-128 even
>> after a graphical scaler like hq3x is applied in Dosbox?
> 
> I'm sure you can use the same scalers under a Commodore 128 emulator, but
> I've never really liked them personally myself.  The slightly improved
> graphics I'm talking about a result of the PC and C64/C128 ports being
> done by different people from the same base Apple II game.  Both games
> greatly improved on the Apple II graphics, both use a resolution of
> 320x200, but the Commodore port is supposed to be slightly better done.
> At least as far as the tile sets go.  Looking at dungeon screenshots the
> PC version looks noticeably better, the C64/C128 dungeons appear to be
> using 160x200 graphics, so maybe I'm wrong here.
> 
>>> The Bard's Tale games and Dragon Age probably play
>>> better on the Amiga for similar reasons.
>>
>> The Bard's Tale looks and sounds better on the Amiga winUAE emulator
>> but the DOS version plays better in DosBox. At least that was my
>> experience when I played through the Bard's Tale a few years ago.
> 
> Yah, when I tried running the C64, Amiga and IBM PC versions of Pool
> of Radiance to see what version was better, I found using WinUAE to be
> a pain.  That was something like 15 years ago though.  I was kind hoping
> that the state of Amiga emulation had improved by now.
> 
> The great thing about DOSBox is that it's designed to play games first
> and foremost.  (It's actually kind of a crappy emulator for things
> aren't games.)  I remember reading a post by the person behind UAE or
> WinUAE about how upset they were that all people wanted to do with it
> was play games.
> 
They expected people to run WordStar and Lotus spreadsheets?

-- 
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation 
instinct are running screaming.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698042
Author: Justisaur
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 18:12
135 lines
9119 bytes
On 7/2/2017 6:15 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

(Need For Speed SE, for instance, kept me
> wonderfully enthralled for hours and hours).
> 
> I don't know how often I'll be returning to my DOSBox installation,
> but I love that I have such a huge selection available at my
> fingertips, all the more so since the whole thing weighs in at a
> surprisingly light 10GB (less than the 1/3 the space required by one
> modern game!). There are so many classic and often forgotten titles
> from yesteryear and it's always a blast to revisit these archaic
> experiences, both to enjoy the games themselves and to see how far our
> hobby has advanced since those early years.
> 

I know the speed increase settings in Dos Box made Pool of Radiance far 
more playable than it was originally.  That's still pretty poor compared 
to modern games though. I haven't gone back to any other games in recent 
history, except Telengard, which still played surprisingly well for what 
it was, though it still only kept me interested a few hours.

I'm kind of interested in trying Need for Speed SE now as I missed all 
those driving games back in the day.  Although I didn't get very far 
with Carmageddon when I tried it a few months ago.

If you want the *REAL* DOS experience there's always FreeDOS.

I'd be tempted to try win 3.11 again, as it had the fastest/easiest/best 
macro creator & runner I've ever seen.  Of course I probably couldn't 
load anything I need to work on into anything that runs on 3.11.

> What have you been playing... IN JUNE 2017?
> 

Fallout 2
Fallout Shelter
GTA V
Death Skid Marks
Westerado
Star Wars: Republic Commando
Buriedbornes

Fallout 2 (1998 Post Apoc RPG) - I guess it's finally too old for me. 
:(  I was trying to get through a dumb run and a melee run.  Melee was 
just too annoying with people running away.  Dumb was fun at first but 
after not being able to do much I finally got bored with it about 1/3 
through the game.

Fallout shelter (PC Freemium sim) - playing it on the PC works much 
better.  I just eventually found the time delays to play too annoying, 
and no cheats seemed to work to get around them, without changing your 
PC clock, which I didn't want to do.  I'm tempted to try it on an old 
laptop to do that, but not sure if it would run as poorly as it does on 
my phone.

GTA V (xbox 360 - sim?) - Finally got into it on my third attempt to 
play it.  I like it better than IV, but the cops are way too deadly and 
reactive.  It seems way too hard to get money in the game.  I'd like to 
buys some of the business, but you need hundreds of millions of dollars 
for some, which from what I've read just isn't available until the end 
of the game unless you wanted to spend hundreds or thousands of hours 
grinding 5k at about 7 min a piece, or trying to game the stock market 
which seems questionable.  By the time the game's over there's no reason 
to have the business. I miss being able to just cause mayhem to get 
money.  I still miss the cop & fireman missions.  I'm a bit irritated 
that the missions for collecting cars aren't in the game either, as it's 
is GTA after all, what's the point if you can't get paid for doing the 
thing that's the name of the game.  It feels a bit too tight and 
realistic, having lost a lot of the 'fun'.  With all those complaints 
it's still a good game, there's been a lot of laughs, but it's no GTA 
VC.  There's apparently quite an online game which is quite different, 
so I'm thinking of buying it again on PC for the online play.

Death Skid Marks (indy 8bit squad-battle-driving) - Reminds me a little 
bit of the old Spy-Hunter arcade game, which was my 2nd favorite arcade 
game (after Street Fighter 2).  It's got some random 'roguelike' 
elements as you get stores where you can get repairs only randomly.  The 
first game I played I didn't get any for something like 5 fights after 
the first and died of attrition.  The second game I got quite far and 
was killed by the 2nd boss.  It's a fun little indy game, it 
almost-but-not-quite grabbed me.  Thus I only played those 2 games, 
maybe a couple hours.  Still not bad for the less than $2 I payed for it.

Westerado (indy 8bit western/rpg)- I may have not given this game enough 
time, it's got lots of reading quests like a lot of old RPGs, and I got 
tired of slogging through those.  I had one shoot-out I just barely won, 
but that's it before I got bored.  I could see this appealing to me if I 
weren't so spoiled by more modern designed games.

Star Wars: Republic Commando (2005 Squad FPS) - This was the best rated 
of the Star Wars games I got in the huge pack in the previous sale that 
I hadn't played yet, so I thought I'd try it.  It's a decent squad 
shooter.  The mouse control needs some smoothing, it feels a bit 
squirrely, and your starting weapon - some sort of blaster auto-rifle is 
highly inaccurate and does little damage which contributes to the 
feeling.  I might go back and try again with controller to see if it 
feels better.  The squad aspect seems pretty tacked on, you just need 
them to do certain things like hack doors or snipe someone, and they 
don't really help much in a battle.  In general it both looks and feels 
a bit dated. I got a few hours out of this, and got to a bit into the 
Genosian area before I left it. The Genosians are gross and nasty.  I'm 
not into the prequel SW setting so that doesn't do anything for me.

Buriedbornes (Android jp 'rougelike' freemium) - This game has me 
totally hooked, even to the point of often playing it instead of PC 
games at home.  It's a sort of roguelike where you play a single 
character and see how far you can get in a dungeon, you can start as a 
mage, ranger, warrior or priest but can unlock many others through 
actions in the game or with in game money.  You choose a path in a 
dungeons as if you were choosing from 2 cards (rooms) the left or right 
path and you can see some of what's in each room, and if you have 
scouting you can see what's beyond that another room giving you a total 
of 4 paths to take.  You start with a few abilities, and collect more on 
the way, that work with cool-downs on turns that remind me a bit of how 
some of the MMOs.  You also collect 3 items that affect your strength 
and abilities. It's not unusual to change out everything constantly 
until higher level as you keep getting upgrades.  It's originally in 
Japanese and some of the translations are a bit lacking, and it can be 
difficult to figure out just which items are actually best for you, 
although that seems to be a feature of the game choosing between items 
with up to 6 modifiers.  In some cases the Japanese is still there 
without translation, especially on yes-no prompts, but I figured out yes 
is on the right.  This has just the right level of interaction to allow 
me to play while taking a walk on a break.  I can also use one of the 
characters I unlocked - the Moon Queen who has Frenzy naturally, which 
makes your attacks happen randomly and automatically, while you gain 2x 
hp & damage, so it is easier to play her as I just have to chose what 
abilities and items I pick up and can let the fights go on their own. 
The freemium aspect is pretty negligible, there's a banner on the bottom 
(you can pay $2 I think to get rid of that) and you can buy extra in 
game money to help get certain things that you can get just by grinding 
the money.  If you've got any interest in this sort of thing I strongly 
suggest trying it out.

- Justisaur
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698043
Author: rms
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 21:29
14 lines
2122 bytes
>I'm kind of interested in trying Need for Speed SE now as I missed all 
>those driving games back in the day.

    I still consider this title the best in the series.  I think I steered 
with just a keyboard, though I think it could recognize something like a 
8-direction digital gamepad (not sure on that).

>Star Wars: Republic Commando (2005 Squad FPS)

    Sorry you didn't like this one, I rather enjoyed it.  Didn't I hear some 
recent blurb that a sequel of some sort was in the works?  Or am I spouting 
nonsense

rms 
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698031
Author: rri... Ross Ridge
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 21:37
20 lines
2098 bytes
Ross Ridge wrote:
> I remember reading a post by the person behind UAE or
> WinUAE about how upset they were that all people wanted to do with it
> was play games.

Dimensional Traveler  <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
> They expected people to run WordStar and Lotus spreadsheets?

Those particular programs weren't available on the Amiga, but yah,
I'm not really sure what they expected.  The Amiga wasn't know for its
office applications and it was never very popular outside of the home.
I suspect maybe the author hoped the emulator would lead to new Amiga
development, maybe turning it into a successful business computer just
like the more popular IBM PC.

-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //	  
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698038
Author: rri... Ross Ridge
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 22:35
36 lines
3219 bytes
Spalls Hurgenson <spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>The one game I just /couldn't/ play was Might & Magic 1. I tried to
>play it, I really did, but its speaker effects made my ears bleed and
>its CGA graphics made my eyes tear. It was quickly uninstalled (well,
>DELTREE'd). 

Mike S.  <Mik...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>Might & Magic 1 supports 16 color EGA. This game is better then
>Wizardry or Bard's Tale to me. Huge game world. Actual quests to do.
>And a combat system that is superior to other similar games of the
>time in that your characters attack immediately rather then queuing up
>attacks. This made a big difference to me.

Yah, Might & Magic I & II up the content and graphics (which, as you say,
are EGA quality) over Bard's Tale I, II & III.  Though Dragon Wars does
a fairly good job with story.  The combat differences didn't matter to
me though, I'm fine with it either way.

One thing I liked about the Might & Magic series is that sequels didn't
have the power scaling issues that Bard's Tale series did.  In the Bard's
Tale sequels you could import your characters from the previous game, with
all their levels and abilities intact.  This meant that the games were
meant to be played from the beginning by high level characters and there
wasn't much sense progression as you leveled even higher.  Instead having
your spell casters of working their way up lists of spells, and using a
variety of them through out the game, you were mostly only using a few of
the most powerful spells.  Since playing BT2 & BT3 I've felt importing
characters from previous games without nerfing them (like in MM2 & MM3
or Wizardry 7 & 8) is a big mistake.  Or alternatively without keeping
the levels from getting too high like in the Gold Box games.

-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //	  
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698053
Author: rri... Ross Ridge
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 00:13
24 lines
2294 bytes
Spalls Hurgenson  <spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Fortunately, I had either imaged the original floppy disks or was able
>to transfer the files over from the GOG.com installations (although in
>a few cases I had to go out and re-purchase one of these classic
>games).

I thought I had most of my old MS-DOS games already installed in one
way or another, but your mentioning of Dragon Wars reminded me I didn't
have that game on my hard disk.  A quick check in my 5 1/4" floppy disk
case revealed that there were three other games I didn't have installed
either.  So I figured I better copy the disks now, before it's too late.
Assuming it's not too late already.

Suprisingly, despite the fact that the game disks and the 5 1/4"
drive are all at least 25 years now, I was able to copy all nine disks
without issue.  I was worried more about the drive than the disks though,
as floppy disks seem to be pretty resliant if all their doing is sitting
on shelf.

-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //	  
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698039
Author: Mike S.
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 01:39
33 lines
3166 bytes
On Wed, 5 Jul 2017 22:35:48 +0000 (UTC), rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
(Ross Ridge) wrote:

>One thing I liked about the Might & Magic series is that sequels didn't
>have the power scaling issues that Bard's Tale series did.  In the Bard's
>Tale sequels you could import your characters from the previous game, with
>all their levels and abilities intact.  This meant that the games were
>meant to be played from the beginning by high level characters and there
>wasn't much sense progression as you leveled even higher.  Instead having
>your spell casters of working their way up lists of spells, and using a
>variety of them through out the game, you were mostly only using a few of
>the most powerful spells.  Since playing BT2 & BT3 I've felt importing
>characters from previous games without nerfing them (like in MM2 & MM3
>or Wizardry 7 & 8) is a big mistake.  Or alternatively without keeping
>the levels from getting too high like in the Gold Box games.

I agree 100%.

It was a huge problem for me with Bard's tale 2 and 3. Especially 3.
You could actually start the game with level 1 characters but the
first dungeon you go into will ultimately reward you with enough exp
to shoot up many levels all at once. I really hated it. An RPG without
character progression isn't much of an RPG to me. I did not have this
issue in any Wizardry or Might & Magic.

But I had other issues with Bard's Tale 2 and 3. Too many spinners,
teleporters, spell fizzle areas and darkness squares  for my liking in
Bard's Tale 2.  And the third game had way too much combat. Endless
combat combined with my characters not needing the exp, I just gave
up. 

The first Bard's Tale is good, but as a series, both Might & Magic and
Wizardry easily outclass it.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698032
Author: Rudi
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 09:23
12 lines
1964 bytes
On Wed, 5 Jul 2017 21:37:25 +0000 (UTC), rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
(Ross Ridge) wrote:

>Those particular programs weren't available on the Amiga, but yah,
>I'm not really sure what they expected.  The Amiga wasn't know for its
>office applications

For what it's worth, I had my first experience in Desktop Publishing 
with Amiga 500 - did quite a lot of flyers and memos, even up to A3
size posters with it. Of course, they were all printed with a 
dot-matrix printer, so by today's standards it's pretty much useless;
but I did get my fair share of oohs and aahs at the time :)
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698033
Author: Toby Newman
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 09:54
21 lines
2737 bytes
On 2017-07-06, Rudi <ru...@iki.fi> wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Jul 2017 21:37:25 +0000 (UTC), rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
> (Ross Ridge) wrote:
>
>>Those particular programs weren't available on the Amiga, but yah,
>>I'm not really sure what they expected.  The Amiga wasn't know for its
>>office applications
>
> For what it's worth, I had my first experience in Desktop Publishing 
> with Amiga 500 - did quite a lot of flyers and memos, even up to A3
> size posters with it. Of course, they were all printed with a 
> dot-matrix printer, so by today's standards it's pretty much useless;
> but I did get my fair share of oohs and aahs at the time :)

I used to use two Amigas running Octamed to write tracker dance music
and then took the machines out gigging. Actually never played games
much on an Amiga expect over at a friend's house.

-- 
-Toby
Add the word afiduluminag to the subject to circumvent my email filters.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698034
Author: Xocyll
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 10:01
65 lines
4577 bytes
Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs
say:

>On 7/5/2017 10:04 AM, Ross Ridge wrote:
>> Mike S.  <Mik...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>> And as for graphics, are you sure it looks better on the C-128 even
>>> after a graphical scaler like hq3x is applied in Dosbox?
>> 
>> I'm sure you can use the same scalers under a Commodore 128 emulator, but
>> I've never really liked them personally myself.  The slightly improved
>> graphics I'm talking about a result of the PC and C64/C128 ports being
>> done by different people from the same base Apple II game.  Both games
>> greatly improved on the Apple II graphics, both use a resolution of
>> 320x200, but the Commodore port is supposed to be slightly better done.
>> At least as far as the tile sets go.  Looking at dungeon screenshots the
>> PC version looks noticeably better, the C64/C128 dungeons appear to be
>> using 160x200 graphics, so maybe I'm wrong here.
>> 
>>>> The Bard's Tale games and Dragon Age probably play
>>>> better on the Amiga for similar reasons.
>>>
>>> The Bard's Tale looks and sounds better on the Amiga winUAE emulator
>>> but the DOS version plays better in DosBox. At least that was my
>>> experience when I played through the Bard's Tale a few years ago.
>> 
>> Yah, when I tried running the C64, Amiga and IBM PC versions of Pool
>> of Radiance to see what version was better, I found using WinUAE to be
>> a pain.  That was something like 15 years ago though.  I was kind hoping
>> that the state of Amiga emulation had improved by now.
>> 
>> The great thing about DOSBox is that it's designed to play games first
>> and foremost.  (It's actually kind of a crappy emulator for things
>> aren't games.)  I remember reading a post by the person behind UAE or
>> WinUAE about how upset they were that all people wanted to do with it
>> was play games.
>> 
>They expected people to run WordStar and Lotus spreadsheets?

You never know.

When Corel took over Word Perfect they got rid of functions that "only a
minority of our customers use." 

Some sort of advanced sorting/collating/list generation he used to
generate potential musician lists for upcoming functions for the local
musicians union.   (People who play that genre of music, are paid up
members, etc.)

Word Perfect came with it and once set up it was very useful/powerful,
then Corel took over WP and axed it.  Word never had it.

As a result, my Father, who used one of those functions, never bought
another version and continued using that older Dos based one for several
more years, since it was quite literally the only one that did that.

Never think that newer automatically equals better, sometimes it's the
early versions that had all the features.

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of 
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, 
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So 
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr 
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698035
Author: Spalls Hurgenson
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 13:11
49 lines
4316 bytes
On Wed, 5 Jul 2017 10:31:14 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:

>On 7/5/2017 10:04 AM, Ross Ridge wrote:
>> Mike S.  <Mik...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>> And as for graphics, are you sure it looks better on the C-128 even
>>> after a graphical scaler like hq3x is applied in Dosbox?
>> 
>> I'm sure you can use the same scalers under a Commodore 128 emulator, but
>> I've never really liked them personally myself.  The slightly improved
>> graphics I'm talking about a result of the PC and C64/C128 ports being
>> done by different people from the same base Apple II game.  Both games
>> greatly improved on the Apple II graphics, both use a resolution of
>> 320x200, but the Commodore port is supposed to be slightly better done.
>> At least as far as the tile sets go.  Looking at dungeon screenshots the
>> PC version looks noticeably better, the C64/C128 dungeons appear to be
>> using 160x200 graphics, so maybe I'm wrong here.
>> 
>>>> The Bard's Tale games and Dragon Age probably play
>>>> better on the Amiga for similar reasons.
>>>
>>> The Bard's Tale looks and sounds better on the Amiga winUAE emulator
>>> but the DOS version plays better in DosBox. At least that was my
>>> experience when I played through the Bard's Tale a few years ago.
>> 
>> Yah, when I tried running the C64, Amiga and IBM PC versions of Pool
>> of Radiance to see what version was better, I found using WinUAE to be
>> a pain.  That was something like 15 years ago though.  I was kind hoping
>> that the state of Amiga emulation had improved by now.
>> 
>> The great thing about DOSBox is that it's designed to play games first
>> and foremost.  (It's actually kind of a crappy emulator for things
>> aren't games.)  I remember reading a post by the person behind UAE or
>> WinUAE about how upset they were that all people wanted to do with it
>> was play games.
>> 
>They expected people to run WordStar and Lotus spreadsheets?

Maybe they wanted people to start using video toaster, which kept the
Amiga alive long after its hardware was far surpassed by other
platforms. Of course, these days there's not much call for a program
that can edit NTSC standard-def TV video...

Amiga was also a strong contender in the early days of desktop
publishing, although it was quickly passed by Macintosh and - much
later - PCs.

But, yeah, it's odd that they'd consider WinUA would have been used
for much other than games. 
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698044
Author: Spalls Hurgenson
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 13:23
27 lines
3271 bytes
On Wed, 5 Jul 2017 15:29:46 -0600, "rms"
<rsqui...@MOOyossmanMOO.net> wrote:

>>I'm kind of interested in trying Need for Speed SE now as I missed all 
>>those driving games back in the day.
>
>    I still consider this title the best in the series.  I think I steered 
>with just a keyboard, though I think it could recognize something like a 
>8-direction digital gamepad (not sure on that).

I don't know if I would consider NFS:SE the best, but it is certainly
a contender. Personally, I have /very/ fond memories of NFS3 (and
NFS5: Porsche Unleashed was nothing to sneeze at either). The first
game has probably aged the best, however; it might have had huge
pixels, but for some reason I find that less visually offensive than
the odd angles and low-res textures of the later game's low-polygon
models. It's definitely worth a revisit, although it can be a bit
finicky to get working on DOSBox (recommendation: use
machine=svga_paradise settings in DOSBox and load UniVBE - remember
Univbe? -  first)

But some of my favorite racing moments are from that game: racing down
the nearly straight highways of the City track, zooming along the
winding roads through the pine forests and under the train-tracks on
the Alpine track, or cresting the ridge and seeing a valley filled
with hot-air balloons on the Coastal track. Pretty decent soundtrack
too.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698054
Author: Spalls Hurgenson
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 13:31
37 lines
3791 bytes
On Thu, 6 Jul 2017 00:13:16 +0000 (UTC), rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
(Ross Ridge) wrote:

>Spalls Hurgenson  <spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Fortunately, I had either imaged the original floppy disks or was able
>>to transfer the files over from the GOG.com installations (although in
>>a few cases I had to go out and re-purchase one of these classic
>>games).
>
>I thought I had most of my old MS-DOS games already installed in one
>way or another, but your mentioning of Dragon Wars reminded me I didn't
>have that game on my hard disk.  A quick check in my 5 1/4" floppy disk
>case revealed that there were three other games I didn't have installed
>either.  So I figured I better copy the disks now, before it's too late.
>Assuming it's not too late already.
>
>Suprisingly, despite the fact that the game disks and the 5 1/4"
>drive are all at least 25 years now, I was able to copy all nine disks
>without issue.  I was worried more about the drive than the disks though,
>as floppy disks seem to be pretty resliant if all their doing is sitting
>on shelf.


As I said, back in the day I imaged most of my disks. I did this
partly because I was worried about the medium's longevity, but mostly
so I could save space; all those floppy games fit on a single CD-ROM
(it was around the time that same necessity forced me to lose all
those awesome game boxes too). While I remember testing them, I was
never completely without worry that the on-disk copy-protection
wouldn't  work from disk images (Lemmings 1 was particularly
sensitive). In most cases, rather than deal with this possibility, I
often just re-purchase the game from GOG. Such was the case with
Dragon Wars; I didn't even bother with my ancient disk images, I just
downloaded the game and transferred the files to my giant DOSBox
installation.

Best thing about Dragon Wars, btw? Automap. 
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698040
Author: rri... Ross Ridge
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 16:02
16 lines
1985 bytes
Mike S.  <Mik...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>But I had other issues with Bard's Tale 2 and 3. Too many spinners,
>teleporters, spell fizzle areas and darkness squares  for my liking in
>Bard's Tale 2.  And the third game had way too much combat. Endless
>combat combined with my characters not needing the exp, I just gave
>up. 

Yah, that was my experience as well.  I managed to persevere through
Bard's Tale 2, but gave up on Bard's Tale 3 about halfway through because
it just got boring.

-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //	  
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698045
Author: Justisaur
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 16:49
37 lines
3441 bytes
On 7/5/2017 2:29 PM, rms wrote:
 >> I'm kind of interested in trying Need for Speed SE now as I missed all
 >> those driving games back in the day.
 >
 >     I still consider this title the best in the series.  I think I
 > steered with just a keyboard, though I think it could recognize
 > something like a 8-direction digital gamepad (not sure on that).
I bought my logitech controller to deal with that sort of issue. I 
haven't had any luck setting up dosbox to work with it, but then I 
didn't try very hard yet.

 >
 >> Star Wars: Republic Commando (2005 Squad FPS)
 >
 >     Sorry you didn't like this one, I rather enjoyed it.  Didn't I hear
 > some recent blurb that a sequel of some sort was in the works?  Or am I
 > spouting nonsense
I kind of enjoyed it, It's just a bit dated and has some control issues, 
it's still playable, just slightly annoying.  I might go back to it, 
especially if I can get a controller to work with it, and one that works 
better than mouse, or maybe there's some mods out there to fix it. 
After a search, I found some for graphics, one for mouse - but only in 
menus which isn't where it bothers me, and one to make the xbox 360 
controller 'mostly work'.  Doesn't sound terribly promising.

I started up Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel the other day, I can see the 
control issues with SWRC quite starkly going from one to the other.  On 
the plus side with SWRC, it's awfully nice to play an FPS that isn't 
dependent on random loot and knowing how to build your character, though 
I'm still irritated at the use of ammo in SW universe, when have we ever 
seen a blaster run out of ammo?  Not to mention Borderlands is getting a 
bit stale with yet more of the same, just slightly different.

Apparently the sequel was canceled along with a couple other SW games in 
the wake of Disney's taking of the franchise.

- Justisaur
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698055
Author: rri... Ross Ridge
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 17:34
51 lines
3781 bytes
Spalls Hurgenson  <spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>As I said, back in the day I imaged most of my disks. I did this
>partly because I was worried about the medium's longevity, but mostly
>so I could save space; all those floppy games fit on a single CD-ROM
>(it was around the time that same necessity forced me to lose all
>those awesome game boxes too).

I've mostly relied on the fact that I never uninstall games unless I need
to make room for something else, and it's been a very long time since I've
needed to do that.  So my current PC has every MS-DOS I ever installed
on it and on all of it's previous incarnations going back to 1999.
There was was no need to uninstall any MS-DOS games because they're
so small.  (I mean why uninstall Might & Magic I?  It's only 600k or so.)

> While I remember testing them, I was
>never completely without worry that the on-disk copy-protection
>wouldn't  work from disk images (Lemmings 1 was particularly
>sensitive). In most cases, rather than deal with this possibility, I
>often just re-purchase the game from GOG.

For games like Lemmings I just downloaded a cracked copy from some
abandonware site.  I feel I'm justifiend in doing that if I have the
game disk sitting on my shelf.  (As it turns out the "cracked" copy I
downloaded turns out to be exactly the same as what's on my 3.5" floppy
original except with the addition of one extra file "RUSSELL.DAT" that
effectively disables the copy protection.)

>Such was the case with
>Dragon Wars; I didn't even bother with my ancient disk images, I just
>downloaded the game and transferred the files to my giant DOSBox
>installation.

Well, Dragon Wars is easy to install off the disks, just copy all the
files (all four of them) into the same directory.  There was another
game I installed by just running the INSTALL.BAT script from Windows.
Since it was just batch file it ran fine under 64-bit Windows.

>Best thing about Dragon Wars, btw? Automap. 

Yah, that's the one big problem with going back the older dungeon crawlers
like Might and Magic I, no automap.  If I were replaying it today, I'd
probably just cheat and use maps from the Internet.  (Even back in the
day after I completely mapped out a level in the Bard's Tale games I'd
use a program I wrote to print out a map of the level generated from
game's data files.)

-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //	  
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698046
Author: Dimensional Traveler
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2017 20:12
46 lines
4148 bytes
On 7/6/2017 9:49 AM, Justisaur wrote:
> On 7/5/2017 2:29 PM, rms wrote:
>  >> I'm kind of interested in trying Need for Speed SE now as I missed all
>  >> those driving games back in the day.
>  >
>  >     I still consider this title the best in the series.  I think I
>  > steered with just a keyboard, though I think it could recognize
>  > something like a 8-direction digital gamepad (not sure on that).
> I bought my logitech controller to deal with that sort of issue. I 
> haven't had any luck setting up dosbox to work with it, but then I 
> didn't try very hard yet.
> 
>  >
>  >> Star Wars: Republic Commando (2005 Squad FPS)
>  >
>  >     Sorry you didn't like this one, I rather enjoyed it.  Didn't I hear
>  > some recent blurb that a sequel of some sort was in the works?  Or am I
>  > spouting nonsense
> I kind of enjoyed it, It's just a bit dated and has some control issues, 
> it's still playable, just slightly annoying.  I might go back to it, 
> especially if I can get a controller to work with it, and one that works 
> better than mouse, or maybe there's some mods out there to fix it. After 
> a search, I found some for graphics, one for mouse - but only in menus 
> which isn't where it bothers me, and one to make the xbox 360 controller 
> 'mostly work'.  Doesn't sound terribly promising.
> 
> I started up Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel the other day, I can see the 
> control issues with SWRC quite starkly going from one to the other.  On 
> the plus side with SWRC, it's awfully nice to play an FPS that isn't 
> dependent on random loot and knowing how to build your character, though 
> I'm still irritated at the use of ammo in SW universe, when have we ever 
> seen a blaster run out of ammo?  Not to mention Borderlands is getting a 
> bit stale with yet more of the same, just slightly different.
> 
> Apparently the sequel was canceled along with a couple other SW games in 
> the wake of Disney's taking of the franchise.
> 
I'm still confused about The Mouse's decision to forgo making more 
obscene amounts of money off computer games when they bought Lucas. 
Heck, video/computer games has been a bigger industry than movies for 
several years now.


-- 
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation 
instinct are running screaming.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698047
Author: Spalls Hurgenson
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 13:20
44 lines
4336 bytes
On Thu, 6 Jul 2017 13:12:37 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:


>> Apparently the sequel was canceled along with a couple other SW games in 
>> the wake of Disney's taking of the franchise.
>> 
>I'm still confused about The Mouse's decision to forgo making more 
>obscene amounts of money off computer games when they bought Lucas. 
>Heck, video/computer games has been a bigger industry than movies for 
>several years now.

Disney isn't opposed to Star Wars video games; they are opposed to
making the games /themselves/. They have divested themselves of their
entire entertainment software division. Any future Star Wars games (or
Mickey Mouse, or Marvel comics, or...)  will be licensed to other
developers. 

This actually makes sense from a finiancial stand-point. Computer
games are an extremely risky investment. Triple-A games cost upwards
of $100 million dollars, and the audience can be extremely fickle. Bet
on the wrong platform, or fail to nail the gameplay, or just misread
the audience's desires and you got a very expensive bomb on your
hands. It's killed more than one studio. While Disney is too large to
be taken down by a bad game, they are averse to losing money. By
licensing, they get the benefit - cash in the bank - with almost no
risk; even if the game flops, they still get paid by the developer
(albeit maybe not as much).

It is unfortunate that Disney killed all of LucasArts projects rather
than transferring them to other developers, but this isn't unusual,
and probably for the best. Projects that bounce between developers and
publishers usually do not result in quality games.

I believe EA currently has an extended license to Star Wars. We're
getting another Battlefront from DICE, the Dead Space developers
(Visceral) are doing a third-person action game, as are Respawn
Entertainment (developers of Titanfall) and there are rumors of a new
single-player Knights of the Old Republic by Bioware. Plus, while
recent selections may not have been to everybody's taste, numerous
Star Wars games have been released under Disney's aegis, including two
Lego Star Wars titles, 2016's Battlefront, and the continued expansion
of The Old Republic MMORPG. So it would be inaccurate to say Disney
isn't interested in Star Wars computer games. 
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698056
Author: Spalls Hurgenson
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 13:52
58 lines
5372 bytes
On Thu, 6 Jul 2017 17:34:12 +0000 (UTC), rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
(Ross Ridge) wrote:

>Spalls Hurgenson  <spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>As I said, back in the day I imaged most of my disks. I did this
>>partly because I was worried about the medium's longevity, but mostly
>>so I could save space; all those floppy games fit on a single CD-ROM
>>(it was around the time that same necessity forced me to lose all
>>those awesome game boxes too).
>
>I've mostly relied on the fact that I never uninstall games unless I need
>to make room for something else, and it's been a very long time since I've
>needed to do that.  So my current PC has every MS-DOS I ever installed
>on it and on all of it's previous incarnations going back to 1999.
>There was was no need to uninstall any MS-DOS games because they're
>so small.  (I mean why uninstall Might & Magic I?  It's only 600k or so.)

See, that's a big difference between you and me. I uninstall games
/all/ the time. Finished with a game? Off it goes. No lingering about
on the hard-drive for my games; I want that space back. It's not even
that I necessarily /need/ the space - I currently have 500GB free on
the games hard-drive alone - but I just don't like unused programs
sitting on my system. This is an old habit learned from my DOS - and
pre-DOS - days when disk-space was at a premium, and I've never
bothered to unlearn it. I remember that when I got Ultima VII - which
weighed in at a whopping 22MB! -  I had to uninstall almost all my
other games and half my applications just to get enough disk space.
That sort of lesson sticks with a person ;-)

There are some games that escape these purges. Skyrim (and Oblivion
before it) stuck around for years, although even they eventually were
removed too. Oblivion actually survived three seperate computer
upgrades. Eurotruck Simulator 2 has been on disk for at least three
years, and Left4Dead has stayed where it is since I first installed it
in 2008. The DOSBox games tend to survive for years as well, largely
because they take up almost no space (although I'm already feeling a
bit antsy about some of the recent additions; I don't think Fate of
Atlantis, Orion Conspiracy and Whiplash will be with us for long ;-)

>>Best thing about Dragon Wars, btw? Automap. 
>
>Yah, that's the one big problem with going back the older dungeon crawlers
>like Might and Magic I, no automap.  If I were replaying it today, I'd
>probably just cheat and use maps from the Internet.  (Even back in the
>day after I completely mapped out a level in the Bard's Tale games I'd
>use a program I wrote to print out a map of the level generated from
>game's data files.)

The worst was the games that spun you around to purposefully disorient
you. It was such obvious padding and absolutely no fun. It didn't help
that the games had such short draw distance (three tiles for Bards
Tale, MM1 and Dragon Wars) and the limited graphics capabilities of
the time meant that all the dungeons were a maze of twisty corridors,
all alike. Given the memory limitations, it's understandable that the
earliest games didn't come with an automap, but it baffles me that
later titles - even modern titles! - don't include this basic feature.
I've never met /anyone/ who really enjoyed the mazes or the
requirement to hand-draw the maps to get through these sorts of games.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698048
Author: Dimensional Traveler
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 15:38
53 lines
4390 bytes
On 7/7/2017 6:20 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Jul 2017 13:12:37 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
> <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>>> Apparently the sequel was canceled along with a couple other SW games in
>>> the wake of Disney's taking of the franchise.
>>>
>> I'm still confused about The Mouse's decision to forgo making more
>> obscene amounts of money off computer games when they bought Lucas.
>> Heck, video/computer games has been a bigger industry than movies for
>> several years now.
> 
> Disney isn't opposed to Star Wars video games; they are opposed to
> making the games /themselves/. They have divested themselves of their
> entire entertainment software division. Any future Star Wars games (or
> Mickey Mouse, or Marvel comics, or...)  will be licensed to other
> developers.
> 
> This actually makes sense from a finiancial stand-point. Computer
> games are an extremely risky investment. Triple-A games cost upwards
> of $100 million dollars, and the audience can be extremely fickle. Bet
> on the wrong platform, or fail to nail the gameplay, or just misread
> the audience's desires and you got a very expensive bomb on your
> hands. It's killed more than one studio. While Disney is too large to
> be taken down by a bad game, they are averse to losing money. By
> licensing, they get the benefit - cash in the bank - with almost no
> risk; even if the game flops, they still get paid by the developer
> (albeit maybe not as much).
> 
> It is unfortunate that Disney killed all of LucasArts projects rather
> than transferring them to other developers, but this isn't unusual,
> and probably for the best. Projects that bounce between developers and
> publishers usually do not result in quality games.
> 
> I believe EA currently has an extended license to Star Wars. We're
> getting another Battlefront from DICE, the Dead Space developers
> (Visceral) are doing a third-person action game, as are Respawn
> Entertainment (developers of Titanfall) and there are rumors of a new
> single-player Knights of the Old Republic by Bioware. Plus, while
> recent selections may not have been to everybody's taste, numerous
> Star Wars games have been released under Disney's aegis, including two
> Lego Star Wars titles, 2016's Battlefront, and the continued expansion
> of The Old Republic MMORPG. So it would be inaccurate to say Disney
> isn't interested in Star Wars computer games.
> 
Thanks for the info.  Still a bit of a shame that all the non-SW 
computer games LucasArts used to make got killed though.


-- 
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation 
instinct are running screaming.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698051
Author: Xocyll
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 17:48
57 lines
4374 bytes
Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs
say:

>On 7/6/2017 9:49 AM, Justisaur wrote:
>> On 7/5/2017 2:29 PM, rms wrote:
>>  >> I'm kind of interested in trying Need for Speed SE now as I missed all
>>  >> those driving games back in the day.
>>  >
>>  >     I still consider this title the best in the series.  I think I
>>  > steered with just a keyboard, though I think it could recognize
>>  > something like a 8-direction digital gamepad (not sure on that).
>> I bought my logitech controller to deal with that sort of issue. I 
>> haven't had any luck setting up dosbox to work with it, but then I 
>> didn't try very hard yet.
>> 
>>  >
>>  >> Star Wars: Republic Commando (2005 Squad FPS)
>>  >
>>  >     Sorry you didn't like this one, I rather enjoyed it.  Didn't I hear
>>  > some recent blurb that a sequel of some sort was in the works?  Or am I
>>  > spouting nonsense
>> I kind of enjoyed it, It's just a bit dated and has some control issues, 
>> it's still playable, just slightly annoying.  I might go back to it, 
>> especially if I can get a controller to work with it, and one that works 
>> better than mouse, or maybe there's some mods out there to fix it. After 
>> a search, I found some for graphics, one for mouse - but only in menus 
>> which isn't where it bothers me, and one to make the xbox 360 controller 
>> 'mostly work'.  Doesn't sound terribly promising.
>> 
>> I started up Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel the other day, I can see the 
>> control issues with SWRC quite starkly going from one to the other.  On 
>> the plus side with SWRC, it's awfully nice to play an FPS that isn't 
>> dependent on random loot and knowing how to build your character, though 
>> I'm still irritated at the use of ammo in SW universe, when have we ever 
>> seen a blaster run out of ammo?  Not to mention Borderlands is getting a 
>> bit stale with yet more of the same, just slightly different.
>> 
>> Apparently the sequel was canceled along with a couple other SW games in 
>> the wake of Disney's taking of the franchise.
>> 
>I'm still confused about The Mouse's decision to forgo making more 
>obscene amounts of money off computer games when they bought Lucas. 
>Heck, video/computer games has been a bigger industry than movies for 
>several years now.

Perhaps they're just trying to amalgamate their IPs and just need the
right script before they can push their very own Duck Lord of the Sith.

(Hrm would that be Donald or Scrooge?)

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of 
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, 
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So 
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr 
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698052
Author: Dimensional Traveler
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 18:31
59 lines
4635 bytes
On 7/7/2017 10:48 AM, Xocyll wrote:
> Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> looked up from reading the
> entrails of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs
> say:
> 
>> On 7/6/2017 9:49 AM, Justisaur wrote:
>>> On 7/5/2017 2:29 PM, rms wrote:
>>>   >> I'm kind of interested in trying Need for Speed SE now as I missed all
>>>   >> those driving games back in the day.
>>>   >
>>>   >     I still consider this title the best in the series.  I think I
>>>   > steered with just a keyboard, though I think it could recognize
>>>   > something like a 8-direction digital gamepad (not sure on that).
>>> I bought my logitech controller to deal with that sort of issue. I
>>> haven't had any luck setting up dosbox to work with it, but then I
>>> didn't try very hard yet.
>>>
>>>   >
>>>   >> Star Wars: Republic Commando (2005 Squad FPS)
>>>   >
>>>   >     Sorry you didn't like this one, I rather enjoyed it.  Didn't I hear
>>>   > some recent blurb that a sequel of some sort was in the works?  Or am I
>>>   > spouting nonsense
>>> I kind of enjoyed it, It's just a bit dated and has some control issues,
>>> it's still playable, just slightly annoying.  I might go back to it,
>>> especially if I can get a controller to work with it, and one that works
>>> better than mouse, or maybe there's some mods out there to fix it. After
>>> a search, I found some for graphics, one for mouse - but only in menus
>>> which isn't where it bothers me, and one to make the xbox 360 controller
>>> 'mostly work'.  Doesn't sound terribly promising.
>>>
>>> I started up Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel the other day, I can see the
>>> control issues with SWRC quite starkly going from one to the other.  On
>>> the plus side with SWRC, it's awfully nice to play an FPS that isn't
>>> dependent on random loot and knowing how to build your character, though
>>> I'm still irritated at the use of ammo in SW universe, when have we ever
>>> seen a blaster run out of ammo?  Not to mention Borderlands is getting a
>>> bit stale with yet more of the same, just slightly different.
>>>
>>> Apparently the sequel was canceled along with a couple other SW games in
>>> the wake of Disney's taking of the franchise.
>>>
>> I'm still confused about The Mouse's decision to forgo making more
>> obscene amounts of money off computer games when they bought Lucas.
>> Heck, video/computer games has been a bigger industry than movies for
>> several years now.
> 
> Perhaps they're just trying to amalgamate their IPs and just need the
> right script before they can push their very own Duck Lord of the Sith.
> 
> (Hrm would that be Donald or Scrooge?)
> 
Scrooge is the CEO, Donald is just the press flack, while Mickey is the 
puppet master at the upper end of the strings.  :)


-- 
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation 
instinct are running screaming.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698057
Author: rri... Ross Ridge
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 20:45
65 lines
5341 bytes
Spalls Hurgenson  <spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>See, that's a big difference between you and me. I uninstall games
>/all/ the time. Finished with a game? Off it goes. No lingering about
>on the hard-drive for my games; I want that space back. It's not even
>that I necessarily /need/ the space - I currently have 500GB free on
>the games hard-drive alone - but I just don't like unused programs
>sitting on my system. This is an old habit learned from my DOS - and
>pre-DOS - days when disk-space was at a premium, and I've never
>bothered to unlearn it. I remember that when I got Ultima VII - which
>weighed in at a whopping 22MB! -  I had to uninstall almost all my
>other games and half my applications just to get enough disk space.
>That sort of lesson sticks with a person ;-)

I completely unlearned that.  When I bought my own PC in 1999 it came
with a 10 GB drive.  It was huge, and I thought I could never use up all
that space.  I knew I was wrong, but it was hard to imagine how I could
ever run out disk space with a drive that big.  Needless to say it didn't
take long for me to fill it up and so my days of having uninstalling
stuff to make room for new stuff weren't over yet.  But then I got a 30
GB drive, then a 120 GB drive, then 1.5 TB drive, and then 3 TB drive.
Now I have four 3 TB drives and a 500 MB SSD.  With storage space being
so cheap, a 3 TB drive is only $100, the days of having to worry about
running out of disk space are long gone.

I've even got a couple of old MMORPGs installed whose servers shutdown
years ago, but why delete them?  I've got 700 GB free on my game drive,
and almost 3TB free across all of them.  And that's with pretty much
every game I own installed.  

On the other hand, I still have to worry about download limits.  I've got
46 GB left in my monthly limit, which rolls over at the end of today.
I'm right now installing Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor which is a 42
GB download.  I'm debating whether I should stop it before it finishes.
In theory it I have enough quota left, but I did stream some HD shows
late last night after the 46 GB number was calculated.  Plus my ISP counts
additional overhead that the Steam client doesn't.  I think I'll risk it,
as it's only $2 a GB if I go over.

>The worst was the games that spun you around to purposefully disorient
>you. It was such obvious padding and absolutely no fun. It didn't help
>that the games had such short draw distance (three tiles for Bards
>Tale, MM1 and Dragon Wars) and the limited graphics capabilities of
>the time meant that all the dungeons were a maze of twisty corridors,
>all alike. Given the memory limitations, it's understandable that the
>earliest games didn't come with an automap, but it baffles me that
>later titles - even modern titles! - don't include this basic feature.
>I've never met /anyone/ who really enjoyed the mazes or the
>requirement to hand-draw the maps to get through these sorts of games.

I didn't have much of a problem with having to make my own maps back in
the day, but when automaps started to be incorporated into the games
I never wanted to go back.  It didn't mind the lack of automap in the
Eye of Beholder games though, but that's because I didn't bother with
mapping at all.  The dungeon layout wasn't too complicated and there
weren't all those darkness, spinner and teleporter squares.  I used to
have the dungeon layout pretty well memorized for EOB1, to the point
I could load an old save and quickly go from the top of the dungeon to
the bottom years after last playing it.  I don't think I could do that
today though.

-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //	  
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698049
Author: Spalls Hurgenson
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2017 13:13
30 lines
3741 bytes
On Fri, 7 Jul 2017 08:38:08 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:

>Thanks for the info.  Still a bit of a shame that all the non-SW 
>computer games LucasArts used to make got killed though.

Oh, definitely. I was looking forward to 1313, even given its already
troubled history (apparently George "I like to meddle" Lucas was
constantly demanding changes, not least of which was changing the
protagonist to Boba "He sells toys" Fett ;-)

But its not unusual for games to die on the vine when publishers are
closed or sold; it's far more unusual when they don't. Even
incomplete, the assets have value (although I'm sure Disney would have
allowed some other publisher to use them to finish the game /if/ that
publisher paid a high-enough price for them). As importantly, Disney
is aware of how a bad game can devalue the price of the license and
may have kept the in-development games off-market because of that
(games that jump development houses rarely do well). So maybe one day
we'll see ideas first formulated for 1313 (or other in-development
Star Wars projects) re-imagined in a new movie, comic, book or game. 

LucasArts was closed in 2013; we're starting to get news of upcoming
Star Wars games now. Four years really isn't that unusual a length of
time given the necessity of forging licensing agreements,
pre-development and then the actual authoring of a new triple-A title.
It's not like the 80s when developers could whip out a game in three
or six months; even were the workload less, just getting the budget
and approval for a game from the corporate motherships (both from EA
and Disney) probably took at least a year.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698050
Author: Dimensional Traveler
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2017 16:41
49 lines
4562 bytes
On 7/8/2017 6:13 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Jul 2017 08:38:08 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
> <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for the info.  Still a bit of a shame that all the non-SW
>> computer games LucasArts used to make got killed though.
> 
> Oh, definitely. I was looking forward to 1313, even given its already
> troubled history (apparently George "I like to meddle" Lucas was
> constantly demanding changes, not least of which was changing the
> protagonist to Boba "He sells toys" Fett ;-)
> 
> But its not unusual for games to die on the vine when publishers are
> closed or sold; it's far more unusual when they don't. Even
> incomplete, the assets have value (although I'm sure Disney would have
> allowed some other publisher to use them to finish the game /if/ that
> publisher paid a high-enough price for them). As importantly, Disney
> is aware of how a bad game can devalue the price of the license and
> may have kept the in-development games off-market because of that
> (games that jump development houses rarely do well). So maybe one day
> we'll see ideas first formulated for 1313 (or other in-development
> Star Wars projects) re-imagined in a new movie, comic, book or game.
> 
> LucasArts was closed in 2013; we're starting to get news of upcoming
> Star Wars games now. Four years really isn't that unusual a length of
> time given the necessity of forging licensing agreements,
> pre-development and then the actual authoring of a new triple-A title.
> It's not like the 80s when developers could whip out a game in three
> or six months; even were the workload less, just getting the budget
> and approval for a game from the corporate motherships (both from EA
> and Disney) probably took at least a year.
> 
House of Mouse was a little more drastic than stopping development of in 
progress games.  There was at least one game that was ready to ship that 
they killed.  I live in the area all the Lucas companies are based in so 
we were hearing a bit more detail than the news organizations were 
giving.  (Heck, back in the 80s I had a couple friends who worked for 
ILM.)  The day after the sale entire Lucas companies were given notice 
of termination.  Disney simply did not want anything that wasn't Star 
Wars movies, everything else was shut down immediately.  The speed with 
which they did so made it clear they had been planning this for a long 
time and knew exactly what they were doing.  Other stuff that is slowly 
being revived is because someone has been trying to convince The Mouse 
how stupid that was.


-- 
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation 
instinct are running screaming.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698063
Author: Mike S.
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2017 19:55
24 lines
2469 bytes
On Thu, 6 Jul 2017 17:34:12 +0000 (UTC), rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
(Ross Ridge) wrote:

>Yah, that's the one big problem with going back the older dungeon crawlers
>like Might and Magic I, no automap.  If I were replaying it today, I'd
>probably just cheat and use maps from the Internet.  (Even back in the
>day after I completely mapped out a level in the Bard's Tale games I'd
>use a program I wrote to print out a map of the level generated from
>game's data files.)

In my experience, automaps in old RPGs, especially really old RPGs,
are very basic. Too basic for my tastes. I'm looking at you Gold Box
games! I rarely used them and opted to just draw them out myself on
graph paper.

These days however, I map out games that require it with software. The
software I use even has built in support for some games so you can see
your character moving on the map as you move around in-game. Cool
feature.

With that said, some games automaps were better then anything I could
do by hand so I used the in-game automap instead in those games. Anvil
of Dawn, Lands of Lore and Ultima Underworld 1 and 2 comes to mind as
games with excellent automaps.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698058
Author: Mike S.
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2017 20:07
30 lines
3076 bytes
On Fri, 07 Jul 2017 09:52:02 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson
<spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote:

>The worst was the games that spun you around to purposefully disorient
>you. It was such obvious padding and absolutely no fun.

Oh boy you should try the Bard's Tale 2 to see this feature at its
absolute worst! In one of the game's castles, you end up in an area
with spinners, darkness squares, and spell fizzle squares all at the
same time. It was at that exact moment that I said, fuck this, I am
done with Bard's Tale 2. When I told Ross in my other post that this
game had way too much of this crap, I wasn't joking. No other old
school RPG I have ever played hit me with all of those negative
conditions at the same damn time.

> It didn't help
>that the games had such short draw distance (three tiles for Bards
>Tale, MM1 and Dragon Wars) and the limited graphics capabilities of
>the time meant that all the dungeons were a maze of twisty corridors,
>all alike. Given the memory limitations, it's understandable that the
>earliest games didn't come with an automap, but it baffles me that
>later titles - even modern titles! - don't include this basic feature.
>I've never met /anyone/ who really enjoyed the mazes or the
>requirement to hand-draw the maps to get through these sorts of games.

I like mapping out games myself. I tried using someone else's maps
once when I was replaying Eye of the Beholder. I wasn't enjoying it.
These days, however, I use software. But I have no problems using the
in-game automap if it does not suck. I just don't like using someone
else's already completed map that I found online.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698059
Author: Xocyll
Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2017 11:15
32 lines
3174 bytes
Mike S. <Mik...@nowhere.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the
porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Fri, 07 Jul 2017 09:52:02 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson
><spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>The worst was the games that spun you around to purposefully disorient
>>you. It was such obvious padding and absolutely no fun.
>
>Oh boy you should try the Bard's Tale 2 to see this feature at its
>absolute worst! In one of the game's castles, you end up in an area
>with spinners, darkness squares, and spell fizzle squares all at the
>same time. It was at that exact moment that I said, fuck this, I am
>done with Bard's Tale 2. When I told Ross in my other post that this
>game had way too much of this crap, I wasn't joking. No other old
>school RPG I have ever played hit me with all of those negative
>conditions at the same damn time.

On the flip side though, if you were the designer of the dungeon and
trying to keep out all those pesky adventurers there to steal your stuff
and/or kill you, wouldn't you pull out all the stops and use every trick
in the book to stop them?

We really do need to get a proper modern remake of Dungeon Keeper (not a
blatant micro-transaction store masquerading as a game.)

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of 
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, 
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So 
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr 
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698064
Author: Xocyll
Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2017 11:17
37 lines
3303 bytes
Mike S. <Mik...@nowhere.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the
porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Thu, 6 Jul 2017 17:34:12 +0000 (UTC), rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
>(Ross Ridge) wrote:
>
>>Yah, that's the one big problem with going back the older dungeon crawlers
>>like Might and Magic I, no automap.  If I were replaying it today, I'd
>>probably just cheat and use maps from the Internet.  (Even back in the
>>day after I completely mapped out a level in the Bard's Tale games I'd
>>use a program I wrote to print out a map of the level generated from
>>game's data files.)
>
>In my experience, automaps in old RPGs, especially really old RPGs,
>are very basic. Too basic for my tastes. I'm looking at you Gold Box
>games! I rarely used them and opted to just draw them out myself on
>graph paper.
>
>These days however, I map out games that require it with software. The
>software I use even has built in support for some games so you can see
>your character moving on the map as you move around in-game. Cool
>feature.
>
>With that said, some games automaps were better then anything I could
>do by hand so I used the in-game automap instead in those games. Anvil
>of Dawn, Lands of Lore and Ultima Underworld 1 and 2 comes to mind as
>games with excellent automaps.

Didn't the UU games have the best of both worlds? an automap that let
you write notes on the map?

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of 
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, 
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So 
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr 
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698065
Author: Spalls Hurgenson
Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2017 13:40
40 lines
3792 bytes
On Sun, 09 Jul 2017 07:17:09 -0400, Xocyll <Xoc...@gmx.com> wrote:

>Mike S. <Mik...@nowhere.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the
>porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>

>>With that said, some games automaps were better then anything I could
>>do by hand so I used the in-game automap instead in those games. Anvil
>>of Dawn, Lands of Lore and Ultima Underworld 1 and 2 comes to mind as
>>games with excellent automaps.
>
>Didn't the UU games have the best of both worlds? an automap that let
>you write notes on the map?

It did indeed. It still is one of the best automaps in any game,
partly because of the aforementioned note-keeping feature, but also
because it did a pretty good mapping the area /and/ it looked very
nice too (you know, like a real hand-drawn map might look). 

I generally like maps and making maps, but not of mazes and
labyrinths. Personally, I always found the mazes of earlier (and
sadly, some modern) CRPGs pointless and unrealistic*. My favorite part
of the original Bards Tale, for instance, was the overworld city. The
original Might & Magic was astounding /because/ of its world, not
because of its dungeons. The dungeons in the Ultima games were the
least enjoyable part. 

The only dungeon-maze I really ever enjoyed playing through was the
Modron dungeon from Planescape: Torment, but that of course was
because it was making fun of the whole concept

Even today, when I run table-top RPGs, I never use maze-like dungeons.
If I do use a dungeon, it has a logic and purpose to it. 

Mazes aren't fun; they are tiresome padding used by designers who
can't think of better ways to challenge their players.


* unrealistic even by the standards of a world where the chicks wear
chain-mail bikinis and 20 ton dragons can fly on stubby 20' wings)
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698070
Author: Mike S.
Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2017 14:03
13 lines
1829 bytes
On Sun, 09 Jul 2017 07:17:09 -0400, Xocyll <Xoc...@gmx.com> wrote:

>Didn't the UU games have the best of both worlds? an automap that let
>you write notes on the map?
>
>Xocyll

Yes it did. In truth, Ultima Underworld probably had the best automap
of any game I have ever played. It just looked the best and functioned
the best.

Another game that comes to mind that had a good automap that let you
write on it was the first Elder Scrolls game.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698060
Author: Mike S.
Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2017 14:06
14 lines
2125 bytes
On Sun, 09 Jul 2017 07:15:56 -0400, Xocyll <Xoc...@gmx.com> wrote:

>On the flip side though, if you were the designer of the dungeon and
>trying to keep out all those pesky adventurers there to steal your stuff
>and/or kill you, wouldn't you pull out all the stops and use every trick
>in the book to stop them?

Well on the flip side, I would put all my minions at the entrance\exit
of my dungeon to keep the heroes out. Not scatter them piece-meal
throughout the entire dungeon to be slaughtered one at a time. ;)

Also, the particular place I was talking about was a castle, not a
dungeon. Maybe the owner of this castle was just paranoid. Very
paranoid. Exceedingly paranoid.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698062
Author: rri... Ross Ridge
Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2017 19:02
20 lines
2271 bytes
Mike S.  <Mik...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>Oh boy you should try the Bard's Tale 2 to see this feature at its
>absolute worst! In one of the game's castles, you end up in an area
>with spinners, darkness squares, and spell fizzle squares all at the
>same time. It was at that exact moment that I said, fuck this, I am
>done with Bard's Tale 2. When I told Ross in my other post that this
>game had way too much of this crap, I wasn't joking. No other old
>school RPG I have ever played hit me with all of those negative
>conditions at the same damn time.

The worst part of Bard's Tale 2 though were the Death Snares, puzzles
at the end of dungeons you had to solve within some time limit or your
entire party would die.  And of course these rooms would also have their
share of spinner, darkness, anti-magic, etc... squares.

-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //	  
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698066
Author: rri... Ross Ridge
Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2017 20:52
31 lines
2851 bytes
Spalls Hurgenson  <spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>It did indeed. It still is one of the best automaps in any game,
>partly because of the aforementioned note-keeping feature, but also
>because it did a pretty good mapping the area /and/ it looked very
>nice too (you know, like a real hand-drawn map might look). 

Ultima Underworld still had the grid-based maps of the earlier
Wizardry-style dungeon crawlers though.  That made generating good
maps from the raw data easier.  Later 3D games weren't constrained to a
grid, everything is just polygons.  Even something like distinguishing
whether some polygon is a floor or a wall or not significant at all
becomes tricky. 

>I generally like maps and making maps, but not of mazes and
>labyrinths. Personally, I always found the mazes of earlier (and
>sadly, some modern) CRPGs pointless and unrealistic*. My favorite part
>of the original Bards Tale, for instance, was the overworld city. The
>original Might & Magic was astounding /because/ of its world, not
>because of its dungeons. The dungeons in the Ultima games were the
>least enjoyable part. 

Ultima Underworld 1 was all dungeon though, but at least there was some
sense to maps.  It wasn't just a big maze.  Ultima Underworld 2 was much
better in this regard.  It didn't feal the need to fill up each level
up the limits of the map so the levels felt more real.

-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //	  
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698069
Author: Xocyll
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 12:52
54 lines
3876 bytes
Spalls Hurgenson <spallsh...@gmail.com> looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs
say:

>On Sun, 09 Jul 2017 07:17:09 -0400, Xocyll <Xoc...@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>>Mike S. <Mik...@nowhere.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the
>>porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>>
>
>>>With that said, some games automaps were better then anything I could
>>>do by hand so I used the in-game automap instead in those games. Anvil
>>>of Dawn, Lands of Lore and Ultima Underworld 1 and 2 comes to mind as
>>>games with excellent automaps.
>>
>>Didn't the UU games have the best of both worlds? an automap that let
>>you write notes on the map?
>
>It did indeed. It still is one of the best automaps in any game,
>partly because of the aforementioned note-keeping feature, but also
>because it did a pretty good mapping the area /and/ it looked very
>nice too (you know, like a real hand-drawn map might look). 

I remember being highly impressed by it at the time.

>I generally like maps and making maps, but not of mazes and
>labyrinths. Personally, I always found the mazes of earlier (and
>sadly, some modern) CRPGs pointless and unrealistic*. 
<snip>

>* unrealistic even by the standards of a world where the chicks wear
>chain-mail bikinis and 20 ton dragons can fly on stubby 20' wings)

Well the chain bikini really has no defense (other than maybe "make them
want to rape you rather than kill you", but in a hot chick with knife
attacking me, I'm still going to focus on the knife part not the hot
chick part.

You can always get some without the drama from a tavern serving wench
after all.

The dragons;  well they are magical, and they do breathe fire generally,
so they'd be full of hot air...

Maybe they can magically alter their weight/mass/density and they'd
really actually small and skinny and are merely puffed up like a
pufferfish to look more imposing.

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of 
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, 
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So 
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr 
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698061
Author: Xocyll
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 12:59
40 lines
3400 bytes
Mike S. <Mik...@nowhere.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the
porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Sun, 09 Jul 2017 07:15:56 -0400, Xocyll <Xoc...@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>>On the flip side though, if you were the designer of the dungeon and
>>trying to keep out all those pesky adventurers there to steal your stuff
>>and/or kill you, wouldn't you pull out all the stops and use every trick
>>in the book to stop them?
>
>Well on the flip side, I would put all my minions at the entrance\exit
>of my dungeon to keep the heroes out. Not scatter them piece-meal
>throughout the entire dungeon to be slaughtered one at a time. ;)

Wouldn't that make it rather hard for you and your delivery people to
get in and out as well though?

>Also, the particular place I was talking about was a castle, not a
>dungeon. Maybe the owner of this castle was just paranoid. Very
>paranoid. Exceedingly paranoid.

Some people are, especially if they own a spooky castle that attracts
"adventurers" like flies to cow shit.

All it takes is someone spreading malicious rumors about you ad the next
thing you know, you're a "monster" with loads of loot waiting to be
taken by some self styled "heroes".

No fixed address, no problem killing anyone, anywhere as long as there
is loot and some "justification," they wander the countryside going on
adventures where they kill slaughter the entire inhabitants of
"dungeons" and such - sounds more like serial killers than heroes if you
think about it.

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of 
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, 
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So 
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr 
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698067
Author: Spalls Hurgenson
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 13:14
21 lines
3111 bytes
On Sun, 9 Jul 2017 20:52:15 +0000 (UTC), rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
(Ross Ridge) wrote:

>Ultima Underworld still had the grid-based maps of the earlier
>Wizardry-style dungeon crawlers though.  That made generating good
>maps from the raw data easier.  Later 3D games weren't constrained to a
>grid, everything is just polygons.  Even something like distinguishing
>whether some polygon is a floor or a wall or not significant at all
>becomes tricky. 

Ultima Underworld was a free-roaming 3D game, and not at all
grid-based -  at least, not anymore than were games like Doom or
Wolfenstein 3D. There was still an underlying grid to which the walls
snapped but the engine did not require 90-degree corners and the level
design felt very natural. You could go over and under parts of the
level geometry. IIRC, it wasn't "true 3D" in that it still used a
ray-casting engine with some 3D trickery (which became obvious when
you looked up or down and the perspective and textures warped weirdly)
but it was pretty advanced for a computer game of its time and far
more complex than the grid-hopping CRPGs that preceded it, like Pool
of Radiance or even Eye of the Beholder.
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698068
Author: rri... Ross Ridge
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 17:56
136 lines
6593 bytes
rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Ross Ridge) wrote:
>Ultima Underworld still had the grid-based maps of the earlier
>Wizardry-style dungeon crawlers though.  That made generating good
>maps from the raw data easier.  Later 3D games weren't constrained to a
>grid, everything is just polygons.  Even something like distinguishing
>whether some polygon is a floor or a wall or not significant at all
becomes tricky. 

Spalls Hurgenson  <spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Ultima Underworld was a free-roaming 3D game, and not at all
>grid-based -  at least, not anymore than were games like Doom or
>Wolfenstein 3D. There was still an underlying grid to which the walls
>snapped but the engine did not require 90-degree corners and the level
>design felt very natural.

The raw map data used by Ultima Underworld was in the same basic grid
format as used by Wizardry-style dungeon crawlers.  The walls didn't
snap to anything, their shape and position in 3D space were determined a
simple 2D array of squares were each element stored a short set values
indicating things like what walls were present in the square.  It could
do things that Wizardry-style games couldn't, walls could be at 45 degree
angles and the floors slopped, but it was basically only an improved
version how the older games stored their maps.  Contrast that a more
modern 3D engire where everything is just polygons, polygons that can
be of any shape and have any position.

> You could go over and under parts of the level geometry.

That was very limited, bridges had to be implemented as special 3D
objects.  The engine could represent arbitrary shaped and positioned
polygons, but this was only used in a few places.

>IIRC, it wasn't "true 3D" in that it still used a
>ray-casting engine with some 3D trickery (which became obvious when
>you looked up or down and the perspective and textures warped weirdly)
>but it was pretty advanced for a computer game of its time and far
>more complex than the grid-hopping CRPGs that preceded it, like Pool
>of Radiance or even Eye of the Beholder.

No, it used "true 3D" rendering, the same basic 3D texture mapping used in
modern video games today, except with one kludge: a necessary division on
every pixel was only approximated.  Floating-point division is very slow
operation, about 90 cycles if you were lucky enough to have an 80387 FPU,
and hundreds of cycles if you were stuck with software floating-point.

You can confirm with from an old post by Chris Green, the author of the
3D texture mapping code in UW:

	https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.programmer/h8vHpOW_-Fc/fWfTG988r1MJ

You can also read more about how UW stores its map data in a couple of
posts I made in that thread.  I've also posted a simple QBasic program
that can display the UW map, but it only works in the demo.  Here's a
version that works with the released game (you need to run it in the DATA
directory, change line "n = 0" according to level you want displayed):

DEF SEG = &HB800

' By Ross Ridge, Public Domain

OPEN "lev.ark" FOR BINARY ACCESS READ AS 1

CLS

SCREEN 12

n = 0

GET 1, n * 4 + 3, offset&

offset& = offset& + 1

ad = 0

DRAW "BM96,16"

FOR y% = 0 TO 63
        FOR x% = 0 TO 63
                GET 1, (63 - y%) * 256 + x% * 4 + offset&, A%
                c% = (A% / 16 + 1) AND 15
                IF (c% = 0) THEN c% = 15
                COLOR c%
                A$ = "C" + STR$(c%)
                DRAW "X" + VARPTR$(A$)
                A% = A% AND 15
                SELECT CASE A%
                CASE 1
                        LINE STEP(0, 0)-STEP(6, 6), , BF
                        DRAW "BU6BR"
                CASE 5
                        DRAW "R6G6U6"
                        PAINT STEP(1, 1), c%, c%
                        DRAW "BEBR5"
                CASE 4
                        DRAW "R6D6H6"
                        PAINT STEP(2, 1), c%, c%
                        DRAW "BEBR4"
                CASE 3
                        DRAW "F6L6U6"
                        PAINT STEP(1, 2), c%, c%
                        DRAW "BU2BR6"
                CASE 2
                        DRAW "BR6G6R6U6"
                        PAINT STEP(-1, 2), c%, c%
                        DRAW "BU2BR2"
                CASE 6
                        LINE STEP(0, 0)-STEP(6, 6), , BF
                        DRAW "C0BL3BUNU4NH2E2BU3BR2"
                CASE 7
                        LINE STEP(0, 0)-STEP(6, 6), , BF
                        DRAW "C0BL3BUU4NG2NF2BU1BR4"
                CASE 8
                        LINE STEP(0, 0)-STEP(6, 6), , BF
                        DRAW "C0BU3BLL4NF2NE2BU3BR6"
                CASE 9
                        LINE STEP(0, 0)-STEP(6, 6), , BF
                        DRAW "C0BU3BLNL4NH2NG2BU3BR2"
                CASE 0
                        DRAW "BR7"
                CASE ELSE
                        DRAW "F6BU6BR"
                END SELECT
        NEXT x%
        DRAW "BL448BD7"
NEXT y%

END

DO
       A$ = INKEY$
LOOP WHILE A$ = "" OR A$ = CHR$(0)
-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //	  
Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN JUNE 2017?
#698071
Author: Xocyll
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 10:52
30 lines
2775 bytes
Mike S. <Mik...@nowhere.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the
porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Sun, 09 Jul 2017 07:17:09 -0400, Xocyll <Xoc...@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>>Didn't the UU games have the best of both worlds? an automap that let
>>you write notes on the map?
>>
>>Xocyll
>
>Yes it did. In truth, Ultima Underworld probably had the best automap
>of any game I have ever played. It just looked the best and functioned
>the best.

Yeah, it looked like they really tried to make it the best they could
and fit in the game setting.   It's those little details so often
overlooked.
Origin really did live up to their tagline of "we create worlds".

>Another game that comes to mind that had a good automap that let you
>write on it was the first Elder Scrolls game.

Been so long since I played Arena I have no memory of the map at all.

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of 
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, 
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So 
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr 
Thread Navigation

This is a paginated view of messages in the thread with full content displayed inline.

Messages are displayed in chronological order, with the original post highlighted in green.

Use pagination controls to navigate through all messages in large threads.

Back to All Threads