🚀 go-pugleaf

On Sun, 01 May 2005 00:02:37 +0000, Advanced Primate wrote:

> Playing thru this level at certain places brings back memories of Quake. 
> Anyone else sense this?

Yes indeed.

-- 
If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Linux Registered User #327951

"Dan C" <youmustbejoking@invalid.lan> wrote in message 
news:pan.2005.05.01.02.03.22.157483@invalid.lan...
> On Sun, 01 May 2005 00:02:37 +0000, Advanced Primate wrote:
>
>> Playing thru this level at certain places brings back memories of Quake.
>> Anyone else sense this?
>
> Yes indeed.
>
Nice to know I'm not crazy Dan. 

Advanced Primate wrote:

> Playing thru this level at certain places brings back memories of
> Quake. Anyone else sense this?

Doom3 simply *is* a glorified Quake.  ;)

"Advanced Primate" <primate@primate.com> wrote in message
news:x0Vce.6032089$Zm5.917831@news.easynews.com
> Playing thru this level at certain places brings back memories of
> Quake. Anyone else sense this?

Once you get TO Hell, yes, it sure does.   Doing Mars base in Doom3 was 
plenty of Mars for a while.   I'd pay for a full remake of Quake in the 
Doom3 engine!  Wow.
McG. 

On Sun, 01 May 2005 12:20:13 GMT, "McGrandpa"
<McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote:

>"Advanced Primate" <primate@primate.com> wrote in message
>news:x0Vce.6032089$Zm5.917831@news.easynews.com
>> Playing thru this level at certain places brings back memories of
>> Quake. Anyone else sense this?
>
>Once you get TO Hell, yes, it sure does.   Doing Mars base in Doom3 was 
>plenty of Mars for a while.   I'd pay for a full remake of Quake in the 
>Doom3 engine!  Wow.
>McG. 
>

google for telejano, its a replacement engine for q1 adding particles,
shadows, new textures & models & generally giving the old girl a bit
of polishing. it works with many mods, too.
highly recommended.

dr ratt
------------------------------------------------------------
gary: so there's no chance we can be together?
lisa: only if you promise me you'll never die.
gary: you know i can't promise that.
lisa: if you could do that, i'd make love to you, right now.
gary: i promise. i will never die.

> Playing thru this level at certain places brings back memories of Quake.

Which Quake????? Quake 1 ? Quake 2 ? Quake 3 ?

Stephen Howe 

On Mon, 02 May 2005 13:09:41 +0100, Stephen Howe wrote:

>> Playing thru this level at certain places brings back memories of Quake.
 
> Which Quake????? Quake 1 ? Quake 2 ? Quake 3 ?

He said which one.  "Quake".  If you insist on putting a number after it,
I guess you'd call it "Quake 1", although that is not an accurate name. 
It was the original Quake, and that's what it was called (and still is).

Only the later ones had numbers (2 and 3).

-- 
If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Linux Registered User #327951

> He said which one.  "Quake".

More times than I can count I have seen people mention "Quake" when they 
mean Quake 2 and Quake 3.
"Quake 1" is unambigious.

> If you insist on putting a number after it,
> I guess you'd call it "Quake 1", although that is not an accurate name.
> It was the original Quake, and that's what it was called (and still is).

Well that is true. But it is rather like Kings in the UK.
There was once a "William".
But the moment there is a "William II", the previous "William" is now 
referred to as "William I".
Since there exists Quake's 2 & 3 (and soon Quake 4), for the sake of 
disambiguity, "Quake 1" fits

SH 

"dr ratt" <spamsum1else@zen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:li8a711t5ujrkjo3u8ht2ijhhgd87q2rrt@4ax.com
> On Sun, 01 May 2005 12:20:13 GMT, "McGrandpa"
> <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "Advanced Primate" <primate@primate.com> wrote in message
>> news:x0Vce.6032089$Zm5.917831@news.easynews.com
>>> Playing thru this level at certain places brings back memories of
>>> Quake. Anyone else sense this?
>>
>> Once you get TO Hell, yes, it sure does.   Doing Mars base in Doom3
>> was plenty of Mars for a while.   I'd pay for a full remake of Quake
>> in the Doom3 engine!  Wow.
>> McG.
>>
>
> google for telejano, its a replacement engine for q1 adding particles,
> shadows, new textures & models & generally giving the old girl a bit
> of polishing. it works with many mods, too.
> highly recommended.
>
> dr ratt
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> gary: so there's no chance we can be together?
> lisa: only if you promise me you'll never die.
> gary: you know i can't promise that.
> lisa: if you could do that, i'd make love to you, right now.
> gary: i promise. i will never die.

Ok, I've dl'd it, will check it out asap, thanks!
McG. 

"Stephen Howe" <sjhoweATdialDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote in message
news:42761896$0$378$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com
>> Playing thru this level at certain places brings back memories of
>> Quake.
>
> Which Quake????? Quake 1 ? Quake 2 ? Quake 3 ?
>
> Stephen Howe

Aw man...  There was Quake.  Then, Quake 2, then Q3A.   We were speaking 
to the thrill of some of the original Quake, also called QuakeC or Quake 
Classic.
McG. 

"Stephen Howe" <sjhoweATdialDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote in message
news:42768b67$0$328$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com
>> He said which one.  "Quake".
>
> More times than I can count I have seen people mention "Quake" when
> they mean Quake 2 and Quake 3.
> "Quake 1" is unambigious.
>
>> If you insist on putting a number after it,
>> I guess you'd call it "Quake 1", although that is not an accurate
>> name. It was the original Quake, and that's what it was called (and
>> still is).
>
> Well that is true. But it is rather like Kings in the UK.
> There was once a "William".
> But the moment there is a "William II", the previous "William" is now
> referred to as "William I".
> Since there exists Quake's 2 & 3 (and soon Quake 4), for the sake of
> disambiguity, "Quake 1" fits
>
> SH

Ok.  QuakeC.  For "Classic"  :)
McG. 

> We were speaking to the thrill of some of the original Quake, also called 
> QuakeC or Quake Classic.

Good game. Played it on "Nightmare mode" (unlike Doom, Nightmare is 
playable - the Shamblers go absolutely crazy and Grunts & Enforcers fire 3 
times a second. But they stay dead) a few times. Also played Scourge of 
Armagon and Dissolution of Eternity on Nightmare mode. Both boss monsters 
are easy to beat if you resort to sniper tactics and skulking, otherwise 
they are absolute murder.

I still have questions on this game - like what causes the 4 scrags 
(wizards) on E2M5 near the Quad Damage in the acid to activate? And the ogre 
near the silver key door on E1M3 - never activates? And a spore on E4M5 - 
never activates?
And a hidden lift on E2M3 near the start - can you enter it? I recently 
worked out how to legimately score the 4th secret on E4M5. It is shame that 
the RotFish counting bug is still present and other minor level flaws.

Architectually levels like Tim Willits E3M5 - Wind Tunnels are stunning. 
Romero's E2M4 ("Ebon Fortress"), E2M5 ("Wizards Manse") and E2M6 ("Dismal 
Ouiblette") are architectually good as well. Imaginative use of 3D.

And Rogue's levels are in a class of their own. I was awed by the boats on 
R1M1.
"Curse of Osiris", R2M4 was a incredible level, absolutely huge - detail 
like the boat was amazing.

Yup - fond memories of Quake.

SH 

On Wed, 4 May 2005 02:16:56 +0100, "Stephen Howe"
<sjhoweATdialDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote:

>> We were speaking to the thrill of some of the original Quake, also called 
>> QuakeC or Quake Classic.
>
>Good game. Played it on "Nightmare mode" (unlike Doom, Nightmare is 
>playable - the Shamblers go absolutely crazy and Grunts & Enforcers fire 3 
>times a second. But they stay dead) a few times. 

Nightmare difficulty isn't really different from Hard difficulty. It just
increases the monster firing rate, which doesn't affect players that know
how to kill Quake monsters normally.

What would be a "true" Nightmare mode:
- Soldiers and enforcers firing at maximum rate.
- Ogres launching grenades that inflict the same amount of damage as the
player's grenades.
- Shambler using the lightning attack that does the same damage as
Thunderbolt.
- The lava pit boss having it's projectile speed increased (or having
multiple projectiles).
- The final boss actually having an attack. 


>
>I still have questions on this game - like what causes the 4 scrags 
>(wizards) on E2M5 near the Quad Damage in the acid to activate? 

I think it's a bug that they don't activate, but this isn't reflected in
the Quake Info Pool:
http://www.inside3d.com/qip/q1/bugsmap.htm#Maps

>And the ogre near the silver key door on E1M3 - never activates? 

Approach the door first, kill the monsters and attempt to open the door.
Once done, proceed through the mission as normal.  (I siscovered the
workaround, when trying to figure out how to get the last opponent.)

>And a spore on E4M5 - never activates?

Haven't heard of this problem.

>And a hidden lift on E2M3 near the start - can you enter it? 

I haven't seen the lift, but there is a "pseudo-secret" at the beginning.
You first go up the lift, advance through the arch, and return to start.  

>It is shame that 
>the RotFish counting bug is still present and other minor level flaws.

Actually, there are Quake-C patches easily available.  In fact, you could
probably find the SDK, download the necessairy compilation tools, and make
the fix yourself...  or have a friend do it for you.    (It's not too
difficult to repair, it just involves removing a line.)

Thanks for the response

You have wetted my curosity with that link :-)
Does it work out that much of Quake is scripted?
Is that how many fixes are provided (by changing the script?)
I have never really explored how Quake 1 "works".

> What would be a "true" Nightmare mode:
> - Soldiers and enforcers firing at maximum rate.
> - Ogres launching grenades that inflict the same amount of damage as the
> player's grenades.
> - Shambler using the lightning attack that does the same damage as
> Thunderbolt.
> - The lava pit boss having it's projectile speed increased (or having
> multiple projectiles).
> - The final boss actually having an attack.

Yes, that would be nightmare :-)

>>And a spore on E4M5 - never activates?
>
> Haven't heard of this problem.

Around the central pool of acid there are 4 sections (some sections bigger 
than another).
Effectively rather like a huge-cross (use Notepad to copy-and- paste)
Now, near the centre pool, diagonally between sections, there is a 
rectangular black box and a spore inside it.
Nothing ever seems to activate it.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    +---+
    |   |
    |   |X
+---+   +---+
|           |
|           |
+---+   +---+
    |   |
    |   |
    +---+

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> I haven't seen the lift, but there is a "pseudo-secret" at the beginning.
> You first go up the lift, advance through the arch, and return to start.

Yes seen that. There is Nail ammo within.
It only opens up once you leave the start area.

>>And a hidden lift on E2M3 near the start - can you enter it?
Further notes: This is after going over the bridge across water from the 
start and at that point you can turn left/right along the walkway. But 
literally staight ahead, not turning left/right though solid wall is an 
active lift - but unreachable I think.

I have also discovered other hidden (again I think unreachable) areas on:
E3M1 (a passageway connecting exit with platform over acid where Quad damage 
is openly available)
also     (another passageway near where silver key is located)
HIP1M1 (what looks like a design closeouts near start)
Catacombs (passage linking initial catacombs with castle)
HIP1M6 (a passageway and lift near hammer)

> Actually, there are Quake-C patches easily available.  In fact, you could
> probably find the SDK, download the necessairy compilation tools, and make
> the fix yourself...

You are right. I could certainly do this. But this is brand new to me.
Do you know of any URL just to get up to speed on this?
I never understood the relationship between "Quake-C" and "Quake"

Stephen Howe 

"Stephen Howe" <sjhoweATdialDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote in message
news:4278228c$0$340$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com
>> We were speaking to the thrill of some of the original Quake, also
>> called QuakeC or Quake Classic.
>
> Good game. Played it on "Nightmare mode" (unlike Doom, Nightmare is
> playable - the Shamblers go absolutely crazy and Grunts & Enforcers
> fire 3 times a second. But they stay dead) a few times. Also played
> Scourge of Armagon and Dissolution of Eternity on Nightmare mode.
> Both boss monsters are easy to beat if you resort to sniper tactics
> and skulking, otherwise they are absolute murder.
>
> I still have questions on this game - like what causes the 4 scrags
> (wizards) on E2M5 near the Quad Damage in the acid to activate? And
> the ogre near the silver key door on E1M3 - never activates? And a
> spore on E4M5 - never activates?
> And a hidden lift on E2M3 near the start - can you enter it? I
> recently worked out how to legimately score the 4th secret on E4M5.
> It is shame that the RotFish counting bug is still present and other
> minor level flaws.

I'll have to get it running again and play those levels and tell ya 
whats up with em.  I recall that if you DO it right, you can get the 
rotfish count right.  In Elder Gods Shrine you can get too many Fiends 
right at the beginning :)  I think it ends up ALL the fiend count from 
the level will drop for you there, yet also respawn in their norm 
triggers.

>
> Architectually levels like Tim Willits E3M5 - Wind Tunnels are
> stunning. Romero's E2M4 ("Ebon Fortress"), E2M5 ("Wizards Manse") and
> E2M6 ("Dismal Ouiblette") are architectually good as well.
> Imaginative use of 3D.

Palace of Hate :)

There are some outstanding maps in Quake.  Dismal Obliette was an 
outstanding multiplayer map too :)  Grisly Grotto.  Gee, how many times 
have I played THAT map?  I've forgotten the names of so many of them I 
loved playing.  One CTF map that was just a blast with a good crowd: 
Dysphoria.  That one and McKinley Base are two I remember having so much 
fun with....I'd realize it's daylight and I was late for work a couple 
times :)

>
> And Rogue's levels are in a class of their own. I was awed by the
> boats on R1M1.
> "Curse of Osiris", R2M4 was a incredible level, absolutely huge -
> detail like the boat was amazing.
>
> Yup - fond memories of Quake.
>
> SH

Dammit.  Now I'm gonna have to dig out my old CD's and also get this 
thing to work with my current rig.  SO FAR, I haven't liked any of the 
"things" like FuhQuake.  they changed playability completely.  It RUNS, 
but they modded it so that none of the old console commands work.  There 
is not enough documentation to show me how to replace any of that. 
Also, No hook.  Fooey.  I do Quake with hook and that's final :)
I don't care if I gotta build an older box to play it on.  But I'd 
rather have it working right on THIS rig.
McG.

"Stephen Howe" <sjhoweATdialDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote in message
news:42784ba3$0$306$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com
> Thanks for the response
>
> You have wetted my curosity with that link :-)
> Does it work out that much of Quake is scripted?
> Is that how many fixes are provided (by changing the script?)
> I have never really explored how Quake 1 "works".
>
>> What would be a "true" Nightmare mode:
>> - Soldiers and enforcers firing at maximum rate.
>> - Ogres launching grenades that inflict the same amount of damage as
>> the player's grenades.
>> - Shambler using the lightning attack that does the same damage as
>> Thunderbolt.
>> - The lava pit boss having it's projectile speed increased (or having
>> multiple projectiles).
>> - The final boss actually having an attack.
>
> Yes, that would be nightmare :-)
>
>>> And a spore on E4M5 - never activates?
>>
>> Haven't heard of this problem.
>
> Around the central pool of acid there are 4 sections (some sections
> bigger than another).
> Effectively rather like a huge-cross (use Notepad to copy-and- paste)
> Now, near the centre pool, diagonally between sections, there is a
> rectangular black box and a spore inside it.
> Nothing ever seems to activate it.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>    +---+
>    |   |
>    |   |X
> +---+   +---+
>>           |
>>           |
> +---+   +---+
>    |   |
>    |   |
>    +---+
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>> I haven't seen the lift, but there is a "pseudo-secret" at the
>> beginning. You first go up the lift, advance through the arch, and
>> return to start.
>
> Yes seen that. There is Nail ammo within.
> It only opens up once you leave the start area.
>
>>> And a hidden lift on E2M3 near the start - can you enter it?
> Further notes: This is after going over the bridge across water from
> the start and at that point you can turn left/right along the
> walkway. But literally staight ahead, not turning left/right though
> solid wall is an active lift - but unreachable I think.
>
> I have also discovered other hidden (again I think unreachable) areas
> on: E3M1 (a passageway connecting exit with platform over acid where
> Quad damage is openly available)
> also     (another passageway near where silver key is located)
> HIP1M1 (what looks like a design closeouts near start)
> Catacombs (passage linking initial catacombs with castle)
> HIP1M6 (a passageway and lift near hammer)
>
>> Actually, there are Quake-C patches easily available.  In fact, you
>> could probably find the SDK, download the necessairy compilation
>> tools, and make the fix yourself...
>
> You are right. I could certainly do this. But this is brand new to me.
> Do you know of any URL just to get up to speed on this?
> I never understood the relationship between "Quake-C" and "Quake"
>
> Stephen Howe

Quake is a)written in Quake-C and b) often called QuakeC for Quake 
Classic.
Yep, it's a lot of scripting.  The .PAK files are actually ZIP files, 
just tell Winzip or WinRAR to add that extention to ZIP format.   You 
can unpack the files to their folders *IN THE ROOT* folder of a drive, 
then rezip them when things are fixed.  I haven't spent any time with 
QuakeC stuff like that, or Quake 2, but have messed around with a lot of 
stuff with the models in Q3A.
Now I just want to get Quake running on this rig...grrr!
McG. 

"McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:MYcee.34016$AE6.18472@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> "Stephen Howe" <sjhoweATdialDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote in message
> news:4278228c$0$340$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com
>>> We were speaking to the thrill of some of the original Quake, also
>>> called QuakeC or Quake Classic.
>>
>> Good game. Played it on "Nightmare mode" (unlike Doom, Nightmare is
>> playable - the Shamblers go absolutely crazy and Grunts & Enforcers
>> fire 3 times a second. But they stay dead) a few times. Also played
>> Scourge of Armagon and Dissolution of Eternity on Nightmare mode.
>> Both boss monsters are easy to beat if you resort to sniper tactics
>> and skulking, otherwise they are absolute murder.
>>
>> I still have questions on this game - like what causes the 4 scrags
>> (wizards) on E2M5 near the Quad Damage in the acid to activate? And
>> the ogre near the silver key door on E1M3 - never activates? And a
>> spore on E4M5 - never activates?
>> And a hidden lift on E2M3 near the start - can you enter it? I
>> recently worked out how to legimately score the 4th secret on E4M5.
>> It is shame that the RotFish counting bug is still present and other
>> minor level flaws.
>
> I'll have to get it running again and play those levels and tell ya whats 
> up with em.  I recall that if you DO it right, you can get the rotfish 
> count right.  In Elder Gods Shrine you can get too many Fiends right at 
> the beginning :)  I think it ends up ALL the fiend count from the level 
> will drop for you there, yet also respawn in their norm triggers.
>
>>
>> Architectually levels like Tim Willits E3M5 - Wind Tunnels are
>> stunning. Romero's E2M4 ("Ebon Fortress"), E2M5 ("Wizards Manse") and
>> E2M6 ("Dismal Ouiblette") are architectually good as well.
>> Imaginative use of 3D.
>
> Palace of Hate :)
>
> There are some outstanding maps in Quake.  Dismal Obliette was an 
> outstanding multiplayer map too :)  Grisly Grotto.  Gee, how many times 
> have I played THAT map?  I've forgotten the names of so many of them I 
> loved playing.  One CTF map that was just a blast with a good crowd: 
> Dysphoria.  That one and McKinley Base are two I remember having so much 
> fun with....I'd realize it's daylight and I was late for work a couple 
> times :)
>
>>
>> And Rogue's levels are in a class of their own. I was awed by the
>> boats on R1M1.
>> "Curse of Osiris", R2M4 was a incredible level, absolutely huge -
>> detail like the boat was amazing.
>>
>> Yup - fond memories of Quake.
>>
>> SH
>
> Dammit.  Now I'm gonna have to dig out my old CD's and also get this thing 
> to work with my current rig.  SO FAR, I haven't liked any of the "things" 
> like FuhQuake.  they changed playability completely.  It RUNS, but they 
> modded it so that none of the old console commands work.  There is not 
> enough documentation to show me how to replace any of that. Also, No hook. 
> Fooey.  I do Quake with hook and that's final :)
> I don't care if I gotta build an older box to play it on.  But I'd rather 
> have it working right on THIS rig.
> McG.
>
I have it up and running on XP 64bit.  Works fine with Winquake, which you 
can find quite easily.


Advanced Primate
XP Pro 64 Bit O/S 

"Advanced Primate" <primate@primate.com> wrote in message
news:hZdee.79227$R24.22483@fe05!news.easynews.com
> "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:MYcee.34016$AE6.18472@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>> "Stephen Howe" <sjhoweATdialDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote in message
>> news:4278228c$0$340$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com
>>>> We were speaking to the thrill of some of the original Quake, also
>>>> called QuakeC or Quake Classic.
>>>
>>> Good game. Played it on "Nightmare mode" (unlike Doom, Nightmare is
>>> playable - the Shamblers go absolutely crazy and Grunts & Enforcers
>>> fire 3 times a second. But they stay dead) a few times. Also played
>>> Scourge of Armagon and Dissolution of Eternity on Nightmare mode.
>>> Both boss monsters are easy to beat if you resort to sniper tactics
>>> and skulking, otherwise they are absolute murder.
>>>
>>> I still have questions on this game - like what causes the 4 scrags
>>> (wizards) on E2M5 near the Quad Damage in the acid to activate? And
>>> the ogre near the silver key door on E1M3 - never activates? And a
>>> spore on E4M5 - never activates?
>>> And a hidden lift on E2M3 near the start - can you enter it? I
>>> recently worked out how to legimately score the 4th secret on E4M5.
>>> It is shame that the RotFish counting bug is still present and other
>>> minor level flaws.
>>
>> I'll have to get it running again and play those levels and tell ya
>> whats up with em.  I recall that if you DO it right, you can get the
>> rotfish count right.  In Elder Gods Shrine you can get too many
>> Fiends right at the beginning :)  I think it ends up ALL the fiend
>> count from the level will drop for you there, yet also respawn in
>> their norm triggers.
>>>
>>> Architectually levels like Tim Willits E3M5 - Wind Tunnels are
>>> stunning. Romero's E2M4 ("Ebon Fortress"), E2M5 ("Wizards Manse")
>>> and E2M6 ("Dismal Ouiblette") are architectually good as well.
>>> Imaginative use of 3D.
>>
>> Palace of Hate :)
>>
>> There are some outstanding maps in Quake.  Dismal Obliette was an
>> outstanding multiplayer map too :)  Grisly Grotto.  Gee, how many
>> times have I played THAT map?  I've forgotten the names of so many
>> of them I loved playing.  One CTF map that was just a blast with a
>> good crowd: Dysphoria.  That one and McKinley Base are two I
>> remember having so much fun with....I'd realize it's daylight and I
>> was late for work a couple times :)
>>
>>>
>>> And Rogue's levels are in a class of their own. I was awed by the
>>> boats on R1M1.
>>> "Curse of Osiris", R2M4 was a incredible level, absolutely huge -
>>> detail like the boat was amazing.
>>>
>>> Yup - fond memories of Quake.
>>>
>>> SH
>>
>> Dammit.  Now I'm gonna have to dig out my old CD's and also get this
>> thing to work with my current rig.  SO FAR, I haven't liked any of
>> the "things" like FuhQuake.  they changed playability completely. It 
>> RUNS, but they modded it so that none of the old console commands
>> work.  There is not enough documentation to show me how to replace
>> any of that. Also, No hook. Fooey.  I do Quake with hook and that's
>> final :) I don't care if I gotta build an older box to play it on. 
>> But I'd
>> rather have it working right on THIS rig.
>> McG.
>>
> I have it up and running on XP 64bit.  Works fine with Winquake,
> which you can find quite easily.
>
>
> Advanced Primate
> XP Pro 64 Bit O/S

Thanks, lookin for it!
McG. 

> Quake is a)written in Quake-C and b) often called QuakeC for Quake 
> Classic.
> Yep, it's a lot of scripting.  The .PAK files are actually ZIP files, just 
> tell Winzip or WinRAR to add that extention to ZIP format.

I think I saw that for the first time ever about 2 months ago.
One of the guys at the Quake Level competion sites told me (Nolan Plug).
Time to investigate.

Cheers

SH 

> I'll have to get it running again and play those levels and tell ya whats 
> up with em.

The easiest thing I found was running WinQuake. Running version 1.09.
Sound, Keyboard, Mice no problem. This is on Windows XP Professional, SP2.

I have here the original Quake CDROM (so 1.06), both expansion packs and 
also the triple version of Quake : Quake 1, 2 & 3, all ID Software CDROMs.

Quake for DOS does not start properly
(I can probably try and get it work with XP by either playing around with 
XP's compatability options and/or browsing Quake web sites online to see if 
anyone has already done this and what Windows XP "gotchas" need addressing. 
But why bother? If WinQuake works why use the DOS version?).
I know for certain if I ran Windows 95, both versions will work.
XP is not as compatible as Micosoft claims.

I have not got GLQuake to work. I figured out that the DLL that ID Software 
supply is too old, and to use the version that comes with this video card 
but then I hit more problems. I gave up on this.
GLQuake, AFAIK, was the first version to have transparent water (as well as 
transparent lava - looked very strange - glowing red holes - who normally 
sees through stone?) and also shadows.
There was a bug with shadows in that they projected onto abysses's (and 
shadows dont normally do that). It would have been fun to get this going.

VQuake I manged to run under Windows 95 but the palette was unbelievably 
dark.
Shaggy in one the Quake newsgroup pointed at palette tools where you can 
edit and resave the PAK but again I did not see the point.

Scourge of Armagon and Dissolution of Eternity are so old that I had 
problems installing.
Scourge complained about having -12Gb on the hard disk (those were the days 
when no partition exceeded 2Gb), did I want to continue?
Blow me after about 5 error messages, it installed and worked.
That is what I like, strong installation, where customer knows best :-)

Dissolution just did not install, period. Installation barfed. I coped the 
files manually on, set up a CFG, and yes, no problem it worked.

So I am using WinQuake 1.09 to play no problem. 1280x1024 resolution.
No complaints.

>  I recall that if you DO it right, you can get the rotfish count right.

Only by doctoring the PAK files, surely? :-)

>  In Elder Gods Shrine you can get too many Fiends right at the beginning 
> :) I think it ends up ALL the fiend count from the level will drop for you 
> there, yet also respawn in their norm triggers.

I know what you mean :-). 7 Fiends teleporting in every 30 seconds near that 
square pillar with the yellow-and-red mural.
I have never had a problem with the level. All 105 enemies killed.
Good level.

> Palace of Hate :)

Yes. Good level. that is the one where I figured out recently that you jump 
on a slanted light and then onto a beam for 4th secret.
For ages I was trying to jump beam to beam from where Death Knight is - 
absolutely impossible.

I also like the Pain Maze (E4M6). "Shoot the unholy altar repeatedly".
Those rooms of Spawn (fun watching many Spawn beat up a Vore).
Also like NIN's music to this. All of the Quake music is good.

> Dammit.  Now I'm gonna have to dig out my old CD's and also get this thing 
> to work with my current rig.  SO FAR, I haven't liked any of the "things" 
> like FuhQuake.

Dont know FuhQuake. Any good?

Heh, I suddenly realised: I am off-topic :(.
But then Quake is a brother of Doom, right? :-)

SH 

On Wed, 04 May 2005 23:41:51 GMT, "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com>
wrote:


>Yep, it's a lot of scripting.  The .PAK files are actually ZIP files, 
>just tell Winzip or WinRAR to add that extention to ZIP format. 

Not quite - the .PAK files are a varient of the Doom Wad file, where the
data files are stored uncompressed.  But any modern file management utility
shouldn't have trouble with standard game compression systems. 

The only thing special you have to do when doing a mod is to store files in
their own directory, and using the "-game folder" command line option.

>Now I just want to get Quake running on this rig...grrr!

I heard Tenebrae (or whatever it's spelling is) gives a higher-quality
rendering of Quake scenes...  That will get anyone to play Quake to see the
revamped engine. :)

On Thu, 5 May 2005 02:36:56 +0100, "Stephen Howe"
<sjhoweATdialDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote:

snip
>Quake for DOS does not start properly

unsurprising, xp contains no dos.

>(I can probably try and get it work with XP by either playing around with 
>XP's compatability options and/or browsing Quake web sites online to see if 
>anyone has already done this and what Windows XP "gotchas" need addressing. 
>But why bother? If WinQuake works why use the DOS version?).
>I know for certain if I ran Windows 95, both versions will work.
>XP is not as compatible as Micosoft claims.
>
i only ever got compatibility mode working once for one game - stars!

>I have not got GLQuake to work. I figured out that the DLL that ID Software 
>supply is too old, and to use the version that comes with this video card 
>but then I hit more problems. I gave up on this.
>GLQuake, AFAIK, was the first version to have transparent water (as well as 
>transparent lava - looked very strange - glowing red holes - who normally 
>sees through stone?) and also shadows.
>There was a bug with shadows in that they projected onto abysses's (and 
>shadows dont normally do that). It would have been fun to get this going.
>
glquake version 1.13a. its unofficial [fan-made] but designed for
modern hardware.

>VQuake I manged to run under Windows 95 but the palette was unbelievably 
>dark.
>Shaggy in one the Quake newsgroup pointed at palette tools where you can 
>edit and resave the PAK but again I did not see the point.
>
>Scourge of Armagon and Dissolution of Eternity are so old that I had 
>problems installing.
>Scourge complained about having -12Gb on the hard disk (those were the days 
>when no partition exceeded 2Gb), did I want to continue?
>Blow me after about 5 error messages, it installed and worked.
>That is what I like, strong installation, where customer knows best :-)
>
>Dissolution just did not install, period. Installation barfed. I coped the 
>files manually on, set up a CFG, and yes, no problem it worked.
>
>So I am using WinQuake 1.09 to play no problem. 1280x1024 resolution.
>No complaints.
>
i'm using telejano director's cut version 0.8 which works perfectly
and is recommended for use with the addons & mods, in particular,
malice [my fave].
 i previously used telejano v0.72 which contains its own replacement
models.
i also play at 1280x1024 which must be set at commandline like
glquake.

>>  I recall that if you DO it right, you can get the rotfish count right.
>
>Only by doctoring the PAK files, surely? :-)
>
>>  In Elder Gods Shrine you can get too many Fiends right at the beginning 
>> :) I think it ends up ALL the fiend count from the level will drop for you 
>> there, yet also respawn in their norm triggers.
>
>I know what you mean :-). 7 Fiends teleporting in every 30 seconds near that 
>square pillar with the yellow-and-red mural.
>I have never had a problem with the level. All 105 enemies killed.
>Good level.
>
>> Palace of Hate :)

no-one's mentioned ziggurat vertigo, always a fave of mine.
>
snip

dr ratt


------------------------------------------------------------
gary: so there's no chance we can be together?
lisa: only if you promise me you'll never die.
gary: you know i can't promise that.
lisa: if you could do that, i'd make love to you, right now.
gary: i promise. i will never die.

>>Quake for DOS does not start properly
>
> unsurprising, xp contains no dos.

Not strictly true.
NT 3.1, NT 3.5, NT 4.0, Windows 2000, Windows XP : the 100% 32-bit versions 
of Windows have these things called subsystems.
The subsystems allow different types of executable to run under Windows.

NT 4.0 and Windows 2000 has 5 subsystems
Windows XP has 4 subsystems.

Remember IBM?
It produced  an operating system, which can still be bought, called OS/2.
Originally this was 16-bit but IBM bought out a version that was 32-bit.
And back in 1989, you could use Microsoft C 6.0 to build 16-bit OS/2 
executables.
And you can still produce 16-bit OS/2 executables, to this day, using 
OpenWatcom.
They have a completely different format to 32-bit Windows executable.
So why am I mentioning this?

Well, as an experiment, if you tried running the 16-bit OS/2 executable from 
the command line of Windows 2000, it will run.
An executable format that is 16 years old, effectively obsolete, still runs 
under Windows 2000 (but not XP - Microsoft removed support for OS/2 
subsystem in XP).
What a surprise.

Question: What are the sub-systems for 32-bit Windows?

POSIX Subsystem - capable of running POSIX.1 apps
Win32 Subsystem - runs 32-bit Windows apps
Win16 Subsystem - runs 16-bit Windows apps (that is Windows 3.0, 3.1 native 
apps from 1990-1994)
DOS16 Subsystem - runs 16-bit DOS apps (and that means DOOM and Quake) in 
Virtual DOS Machine
OS/216 Subsystem - runs 16-bit OS/2 1.x character-mode apps

If you look for the following files in Windows System directory

NTIO.SYS     - The equivalent of IO.SYS on MS-DOS machines.
NTDOS.SYS    - The equivalent of MSDOS.SYS.
NTVDM.EXE    - Win32 Application.
NTVDM.DLL or NTVDMD.DLL   - Win32 Application.
REDIR.EXE    - Virtual Device Driver (VDD) redirector for the VDM.

They make up the DOS subsystem.
And if you run Doom or Quake for DOS, it will be NTVDM.EXE that shows up in 
Task Manager.
Now how well it runs DOS programs is another matter :-)

> no-one's mentioned ziggurat vertigo, always a fave of mine.

Good level. I like the low gravity. Unusual.
And the novel idea of swimming through lava to reach a secret.
A lot of shamblers on that level.
I should think it is a reasonable DM level as well.

Stephen Howe 

On Fri, 6 May 2005 00:16:20 +0100, "Stephen Howe"
<sjhoweATdialDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote:

>>>Quake for DOS does not start properly
>>
>> unsurprising, xp contains no dos.
>
>Not strictly true.
>NT 3.1, NT 3.5, NT 4.0, Windows 2000, Windows XP : the 100% 32-bit versions 
>of Windows have these things called subsystems.
>The subsystems allow different types of executable to run under Windows.
>
>NT 4.0 and Windows 2000 has 5 subsystems
>Windows XP has 4 subsystems.
>
>Remember IBM?
>It produced  an operating system, which can still be bought, called OS/2.
>Originally this was 16-bit but IBM bought out a version that was 32-bit.
>And back in 1989, you could use Microsoft C 6.0 to build 16-bit OS/2 
>executables.
>And you can still produce 16-bit OS/2 executables, to this day, using 
>OpenWatcom.
>They have a completely different format to 32-bit Windows executable.
>So why am I mentioning this?
>
>Well, as an experiment, if you tried running the 16-bit OS/2 executable from 
>the command line of Windows 2000, it will run.
>An executable format that is 16 years old, effectively obsolete, still runs 
>under Windows 2000 (but not XP - Microsoft removed support for OS/2 
>subsystem in XP).
>What a surprise.
>
>Question: What are the sub-systems for 32-bit Windows?
>
>POSIX Subsystem - capable of running POSIX.1 apps
>Win32 Subsystem - runs 32-bit Windows apps
>Win16 Subsystem - runs 16-bit Windows apps (that is Windows 3.0, 3.1 native 
>apps from 1990-1994)
>DOS16 Subsystem - runs 16-bit DOS apps (and that means DOOM and Quake) in 
>Virtual DOS Machine
>OS/216 Subsystem - runs 16-bit OS/2 1.x character-mode apps
>
>If you look for the following files in Windows System directory
>
>NTIO.SYS     - The equivalent of IO.SYS on MS-DOS machines.
>NTDOS.SYS    - The equivalent of MSDOS.SYS.
>NTVDM.EXE    - Win32 Application.
>NTVDM.DLL or NTVDMD.DLL   - Win32 Application.
>REDIR.EXE    - Virtual Device Driver (VDD) redirector for the VDM.
>
>They make up the DOS subsystem.
>And if you run Doom or Quake for DOS, it will be NTVDM.EXE that shows up in 
>Task Manager.
>Now how well it runs DOS programs is another matter :-)

snippy snip

i sit corrected.

dr ratt

------------------------------------------------------------
gary: so there's no chance we can be together?
lisa: only if you promise me you'll never die.
gary: you know i can't promise that.
lisa: if you could do that, i'd make love to you, right now.
gary: i promise. i will never die.

"dr ratt" <spamsum1else@zen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:u3gl715cqj8f8v09cf3g6ud076b8emmdtt@4ax.com
> On Fri, 6 May 2005 00:16:20 +0100, "Stephen Howe"
> <sjhoweATdialDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote:
>
>>>> Quake for DOS does not start properly
>>>
>>> unsurprising, xp contains no dos.
>>
>> Not strictly true.
>> NT 3.1, NT 3.5, NT 4.0, Windows 2000, Windows XP : the 100% 32-bit
>> versions of Windows have these things called subsystems.
>> The subsystems allow different types of executable to run under
>> Windows.
>>
>> NT 4.0 and Windows 2000 has 5 subsystems
>> Windows XP has 4 subsystems.
>>
>> Remember IBM?
>> It produced  an operating system, which can still be bought, called
>> OS/2. Originally this was 16-bit but IBM bought out a version that
>> was 32-bit. And back in 1989, you could use Microsoft C 6.0 to build
>> 16-bit OS/2 executables.
>> And you can still produce 16-bit OS/2 executables, to this day, using
>> OpenWatcom.
>> They have a completely different format to 32-bit Windows executable.
>> So why am I mentioning this?
>>
>> Well, as an experiment, if you tried running the 16-bit OS/2
>> executable from the command line of Windows 2000, it will run.
>> An executable format that is 16 years old, effectively obsolete,
>> still runs under Windows 2000 (but not XP - Microsoft removed
>> support for OS/2 subsystem in XP).
>> What a surprise.
>>
>> Question: What are the sub-systems for 32-bit Windows?
>>
>> POSIX Subsystem - capable of running POSIX.1 apps
>> Win32 Subsystem - runs 32-bit Windows apps
>> Win16 Subsystem - runs 16-bit Windows apps (that is Windows 3.0, 3.1
>> native apps from 1990-1994)
>> DOS16 Subsystem - runs 16-bit DOS apps (and that means DOOM and
>> Quake) in Virtual DOS Machine
>> OS/216 Subsystem - runs 16-bit OS/2 1.x character-mode apps
>>
>> If you look for the following files in Windows System directory
>>
>> NTIO.SYS     - The equivalent of IO.SYS on MS-DOS machines.
>> NTDOS.SYS    - The equivalent of MSDOS.SYS.
>> NTVDM.EXE    - Win32 Application.
>> NTVDM.DLL or NTVDMD.DLL   - Win32 Application.
>> REDIR.EXE    - Virtual Device Driver (VDD) redirector for the VDM.
>>
>> They make up the DOS subsystem.
>> And if you run Doom or Quake for DOS, it will be NTVDM.EXE that
>> shows up in Task Manager.
>> Now how well it runs DOS programs is another matter :-)
>
> snippy snip
>
> i sit corrected.
>
> dr ratt
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> gary: so there's no chance we can be together?
> lisa: only if you promise me you'll never die.
> gary: you know i can't promise that.
> lisa: if you could do that, i'd make love to you, right now.
> gary: i promise. i will never die.

It's aaaIGHT now ;o)  Fresh install of that gigantic whopping (350K?) 
WinQuake 1.0 and I'm running "vanilla" graphics Quake again.  Gotta see 
if it's supposed to support opengl32.dll?
McG. 

"Raymond Martineau" <bk039@ncf.ca> wrote in message
news:tmui719pl1bnqm1gbkedoglo2m44ttvjqi@4ax.com
> On Wed, 04 May 2005 23:41:51 GMT, "McGrandpa"
> <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Yep, it's a lot of scripting.  The .PAK files are actually ZIP files,
>> just tell Winzip or WinRAR to add that extention to ZIP format.
>
> Not quite - the .PAK files are a varient of the Doom Wad file, where
> the data files are stored uncompressed.  But any modern file
> management utility shouldn't have trouble with standard game
> compression systems.
>
> The only thing special you have to do when doing a mod is to store
> files in their own directory, and using the "-game folder" command
> line option.
>
>> Now I just want to get Quake running on this rig...grrr!
>
> I heard Tenebrae (or whatever it's spelling is) gives a higher-quality
> rendering of Quake scenes...  That will get anyone to play Quake to
> see the revamped engine. :)

I have tenetrae somewhere, but just wanted the regular, well, WinQuake, 
and it's running perfectly (if plain looking) now :)
McG. 

"Stephen Howe" <sjhoweATdialDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote in message
news:427978bd$0$319$cc9e4d1f@news.dial.pipex.com
>> I'll have to get it running again and play those levels and tell ya
>> whats up with em.
>
> The easiest thing I found was running WinQuake. Running version 1.09.
> Sound, Keyboard, Mice no problem. This is on Windows XP Professional,
> SP2.

Right, got that when I saw it mentioned a couple days ago, and it's 
working perfectly (but plain graphics) on this rig (P4-3.0/800/1meg L2, 
2 gigs DDR400, 6800GT, XP Pro SP2, nv 71.89).   I did have 
GLQuake/QuakeWorld running under XP pre SP.  Dunno what broke it for 
sure.  I think it was actually one of those "all in one" Quake front 
end/launcher/managers.

>
> I have here the original Quake CDROM (so 1.06), both expansion packs
> and also the triple version of Quake : Quake 1, 2 & 3, all ID
> Software CDROMs.
> Quake for DOS does not start properly
> (I can probably try and get it work with XP by either playing around
> with XP's compatability options and/or browsing Quake web sites
> online to see if anyone has already done this and what Windows XP
> "gotchas" need addressing. But why bother? If WinQuake works why use
> the DOS version?). I know for certain if I ran Windows 95, both 
> versions will work.
> XP is not as compatible as Micosoft claims.
>
> I have not got GLQuake to work. I figured out that the DLL that ID
> Software supply is too old, and to use the version that comes with
> this video card but then I hit more problems. I gave up on this.
> GLQuake, AFAIK, was the first version to have transparent water (as
> well as transparent lava - looked very strange - glowing red holes -
> who normally sees through stone?) and also shadows.
> There was a bug with shadows in that they projected onto abysses's
> (and shadows dont normally do that). It would have been fun to get
> this going.
> VQuake I manged to run under Windows 95 but the palette was
> unbelievably dark.

VQuake huh?  You must have had a Verite 1000 or higher accelerator early 
on, like I did.  I still have that .exe but it sure don't work with the 
6800GT!

> Shaggy in one the Quake newsgroup pointed at palette tools where you
> can edit and resave the PAK but again I did not see the point.

Some of the 3D gurus had put together a lightened texture set that 
really helped a LOT in this problem.  I forget where it originally came 
from.

>
> Scourge of Armagon and Dissolution of Eternity are so old that I had
> problems installing.
> Scourge complained about having -12Gb on the hard disk (those were
> the days when no partition exceeded 2Gb), did I want to continue?
> Blow me after about 5 error messages, it installed and worked.
> That is what I like, strong installation, where customer knows best
> :-)
> Dissolution just did not install, period. Installation barfed. I
> coped the files manually on, set up a CFG, and yes, no problem it
> worked.
> So I am using WinQuake 1.09 to play no problem. 1280x1024 resolution.
> No complaints.
>
>>  I recall that if you DO it right, you can get the rotfish count
>> right.
>
> Only by doctoring the PAK files, surely? :-)

Nope, I never did that.  I Use the regular shotty, as multiple hits on 
the rotfish count as one kill.  Like ye ol Thunderstick or the nades or 
RL.   I saw this in a.g.q. years ago, and that appears to be the 
workaround for that bug.   I have winQuake 1.0 installed now.  Oh, where 
did ya get 1.09?  I didn't see that on the WinQuake site.

>
>>  In Elder Gods Shrine you can get too many Fiends right at the
>> beginning :) I think it ends up ALL the fiend count from the level
>> will drop for you there, yet also respawn in their norm triggers.
>
> I know what you mean :-). 7 Fiends teleporting in every 30 seconds
> near that square pillar with the yellow-and-red mural.
> I have never had a problem with the level. All 105 enemies killed.
> Good level.
>
>> Palace of Hate :)
>
> Yes. Good level. that is the one where I figured out recently that
> you jump on a slanted light and then onto a beam for 4th secret.
> For ages I was trying to jump beam to beam from where Death Knight is
> - absolutely impossible.

Yep.  It's a fun level.

>
> I also like the Pain Maze (E4M6). "Shoot the unholy altar repeatedly".
> Those rooms of Spawn (fun watching many Spawn beat up a Vore).
> Also like NIN's music to this. All of the Quake music is good.

Oh yes, it was an easy one in the SP game, but not at all easy with a 
few good players in it in either FFA or CTF.  That made it all the more 
fun and memorable though.  The music, my fave is the track I call 
"Mutters", with blood and stuff dripping in the first few minutes of the 
track.  I think it was track 4.  Might be Call of Chthon.  Long track :)

>
>> Dammit.  Now I'm gonna have to dig out my old CD's and also get this
>> thing to work with my current rig.  SO FAR, I haven't liked any of
>> the "things" like FuhQuake.
>
> Dont know FuhQuake. Any good?

 Yes, for multiplayer and cheat stoppers.  But not worth much if you are 
used to the old console :)

>
> Heh, I suddenly realised: I am off-topic :(.
> But then Quake is a brother of Doom, right? :-)  Definitely! :)
>
> SH

McG.

On Fri, 06 May 2005 20:04:02 GMT, "McGrandpa"
<McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote:

>> Shaggy in one the Quake newsgroup pointed at palette tools where you
>> can edit and resave the PAK but again I did not see the point.
>
>Some of the 3D gurus had put together a lightened texture set that 
>really helped a LOT in this problem.  I forget where it originally came 
>from.

IDgamma NT is what you need to sort out the the ermmm .....gamma
issues - can post it if you want. Glquake (and gl quakeworld client)
has always worked fine providing you delete the voodoo dll wrapper
files if you have anything other than a voodoo card. Again, I can post
if required.
If anyone fancies an old school QW requiem mod bash (hook among other
things), I can fire up the server at work!

-- 
steve <AT> steveevans <DOT> org

"Steve Evans" <no@spam> wrote in message
news:327d81d4up8q8qde7qsdgc96oq3j7s841k@4ax.com
> On Fri, 06 May 2005 20:04:02 GMT, "McGrandpa"
> <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Shaggy in one the Quake newsgroup pointed at palette tools where you
>>> can edit and resave the PAK but again I did not see the point.
>>
>> Some of the 3D gurus had put together a lightened texture set that
>> really helped a LOT in this problem.  I forget where it originally
>> came from.
>
> IDgamma NT is what you need to sort out the the ermmm .....gamma
> issues - can post it if you want. Glquake (and gl quakeworld client)
> has always worked fine providing you delete the voodoo dll wrapper
> files if you have anything other than a voodoo card. Again, I can post
> if required.
> If anyone fancies an old school QW requiem mod bash (hook among other
> things), I can fire up the server at work!

Hey that sounds good to me!   hook and CTF?  I've got my SP game going 
great, and managed a little outing thru GameSpy last week.  It's cruzin 
:)
McG. 

On Sun, 15 May 2005 15:11:46 GMT, "McGrandpa"
<McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote:


>>
>> IDgamma NT is what you need to sort out the the ermmm .....gamma
>> issues - can post it if you want. Glquake (and gl quakeworld client)
>> has always worked fine providing you delete the voodoo dll wrapper
>> files if you have anything other than a voodoo card. Again, I can post
>> if required.
>> If anyone fancies an old school QW requiem mod bash (hook among other
>> things), I can fire up the server at work!
>
>Hey that sounds good to me!   hook and CTF?  I've got my SP game going 
>great, and managed a little outing thru GameSpy last week.  It's cruzin 
>:)
>McG. 
>

Alas, it's not ctf, but a QWDM mod that can have anything from a hook
to a load of modified weapons. I'll leave it running on 80.176.184.20.
bind <key> +hook (hook...duh)
bind <key> +slide (look up and repeatedly press slide to leap)

-- 
steve <AT> steveevans <DOT> org