🚀 go-pugleaf

On Oct 20, 3:18 pm, EMan <supreme.evolution...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If anybody was hold off on buying X3 The Terran Conflict because of
> the DRM.  The 2.5 patch just removed it and you can install it on as
> many computers as you like.

I thought you could also play it without the DVD with patch 2.0? I
know with 2.0a you need it, can't remember now but it will be a nice
package once 2.5 comes out. EgoSoft just needs to start working on
something new :)

On Oct 22, 3:55 pm, DarkOne <ad...@spacesimcentral.com> wrote:
> On Oct 20, 3:18 pm, EMan <supreme.evolution...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > If anybody was hold off on buying X3 The Terran Conflict because of
> > the DRM.  The 2.5 patch just removed it and you can install it on as
> > many computers as you like.
>
> I thought you could also play it without the DVD with patch 2.0? I
> know with 2.0a you need it, can't remember now but it will be a nice
> package once 2.5 comes out. EgoSoft just needs to start working on
> something new :)

They need to get on with the X:MMO.  Although I'm not sure what they
would be able to offer beyond Eve.

In article <4c70b108-3a93-4d28-aba4-
657179eaba2e@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>, 
supreme.evolutionary@gmail.com says...
> 
> On Oct 22, 3:55 pm, DarkOne <ad...@spacesimcentral.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 20, 3:18 pm, EMan <supreme.evolution...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > If anybody was hold off on buying X3 The Terran Conflict because of
> > > the DRM.  The 2.5 patch just removed it and you can install it on as
> > > many computers as you like.
> >
> > I thought you could also play it without the DVD with patch 2.0? I
> > know with 2.0a you need it, can't remember now but it will be a nice
> > package once 2.5 comes out. EgoSoft just needs to start working on
> > something new :)
> 
> They need to get on with the X:MMO.  Although I'm not sure what they
> would be able to offer beyond Eve.

Is this X3 Terran Conflict different from X3 Reunion? Not that I'm 
tempted at the moment, I still haven't gotten well into Reunion yet, 
since I found other timesinks shortly after buying it (see below).

***

As for the MMO: I'd be interested in an alternative to Eve. There are a 
couple of things about the design & playerbase of Eve that made me drop 
my subscription after the first cycle and vow never to go back: One is 
how pvp is viewed/treated in Eve (no discussion will be entered into by 
me, it's been threshed out sufficiently before -- I don't like the 
mechanism and I don't like the general attitude: in other mmos I've 
played senior players generally help out, or ignore noobs, in Eve they 
'teach you a valuable lesson' by shooting newbs of their ships, 
destroying weeks' worth of grinding in one fell swoop, and the community 
goes 'yeah, right, whatever, that's life in Eve, learn to live with 
it'), the other aspect is how I can see in the design of the Eve 
Universe that there are numerous mechanisms that try to lock and force 
you into p(l)aying for a very very long time to be able to achieve 
anything much in the game beyond noobishness. It's not how well you 
play, or how hard you practice, it's tied to how long a time you've been 
subscribed. Good trick guys, but this sucker's seen through it.

I'm not advocating a system like GuildWars here, where I can powerplay 
to max. level in 1-3 days: but in Anarchy Online I have managed max 
level in 6 months (not with my first toon, mind!), and I'm not generally 
a powergamer (albeit I spend a fair amount of time).  After 3 years I 
have barely learned 1/2 of AOnline and I've never, ever been troubled by 
pvp griefers ... if someone can make a space-sim mmorpg along those 
lines, I'd happily hand over some readies and go explore. Particularly 
if one's rewarded for the role playing side ... I'm getting more than a 
bit tired of zerg raid kill kill zerg raid kill as the ONLY mechanism of 
advancement and xp gain. The skilled trading factor and faction standing 
in X3 would fall into that bracket, for instance.

-P.

On Oct 26, 7:44 pm, Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> wrote:
> In article <4c70b108-3a93-4d28-aba4-
> 657179eab...@l35g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
> supreme.evolution...@gmail.com says...
>
>
>
> > On Oct 22, 3:55 pm, DarkOne <ad...@spacesimcentral.com> wrote:
> > > On Oct 20, 3:18 pm, EMan <supreme.evolution...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > If anybody was hold off on buying X3 The Terran Conflict because of
> > > > the DRM.  The 2.5 patch just removed it and you can install it on as
> > > > many computers as you like.
>
> > > I thought you could also play it without the DVD with patch 2.0? I
> > > know with 2.0a you need it, can't remember now but it will be a nice
> > > package once 2.5 comes out. EgoSoft just needs to start working on
> > > something new :)
>
> > They need to get on with the X:MMO.  Although I'm not sure what they
> > would be able to offer beyond Eve.
>
> Is this X3 Terran Conflict different from X3 Reunion? Not that I'm
> tempted at the moment, I still haven't gotten well into Reunion yet,
> since I found other timesinks shortly after buying it (see below).
>
> ***
>
> As for the MMO: I'd be interested in an alternative to Eve. There are a
> couple of things about the design & playerbase of Eve that made me drop
> my subscription after the first cycle and vow never to go back: One is
> how pvp is viewed/treated in Eve (no discussion will be entered into by
> me, it's been threshed out sufficiently before -- I don't like the
> mechanism and I don't like the general attitude: in other mmos I've
> played senior players generally help out, or ignore noobs, in Eve they
> 'teach you a valuable lesson' by shooting newbs of their ships,
> destroying weeks' worth of grinding in one fell swoop, and the community
> goes 'yeah, right, whatever, that's life in Eve, learn to live with
> it'), the other aspect is how I can see in the design of the Eve
> Universe that there are numerous mechanisms that try to lock and force
> you into p(l)aying for a very very long time to be able to achieve
> anything much in the game beyond noobishness. It's not how well you
> play, or how hard you practice, it's tied to how long a time you've been
> subscribed. Good trick guys, but this sucker's seen through it.
>
> I'm not advocating a system like GuildWars here, where I can powerplay
> to max. level in 1-3 days: but in Anarchy Online I have managed max
> level in 6 months (not with my first toon, mind!), and I'm not generally
> a powergamer (albeit I spend a fair amount of time).  After 3 years I
> have barely learned 1/2 of AOnline and I've never, ever been troubled by
> pvp griefers ... if someone can make a space-sim mmorpg along those
> lines, I'd happily hand over some readies and go explore. Particularly
> if one's rewarded for the role playing side ... I'm getting more than a
> bit tired of zerg raid kill kill zerg raid kill as the ONLY mechanism of
> advancement and xp gain. The skilled trading factor and faction standing
> in X3 would fall into that bracket, for instance.
>
> -P.

I think after the 2.5 patch that X3TC will be hands down the best of
them all, I think it is right now personally. I know I have been
having this discussion on my site spacesimcentral.com on what Egosoft
should do next? I don't think a MMO will do it for them, because of
the MMO climate right now and with EVE coming with some expansions,
Jumpgate Evolution, Black Prophecy, Star Trek Online, Infinity, Miner
Wars, etc.. that space is going to fill up soon. I know I have been
leaning to have them keep a lot of the concepts of X universe but make
the gameplay a bit faster like a freelancer style game. With Egosoft's
great modeling and art style I think it would do well.

EMan wrote:
> On Oct 22, 3:55 pm, DarkOne <ad...@spacesimcentral.com> wrote:
>> On Oct 20, 3:18 pm, EMan <supreme.evolution...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If anybody was hold off on buying X3 The Terran Conflict because of
>>> the DRM.  The 2.5 patch just removed it and you can install it on as
>>> many computers as you like.
>> I thought you could also play it without the DVD with patch 2.0? I
>> know with 2.0a you need it, can't remember now but it will be a nice
>> package once 2.5 comes out. EgoSoft just needs to start working on
>> something new :)
> 
> They need to get on with the X:MMO.  Although I'm not sure what they
> would be able to offer beyond Eve.

      I suspect X:MMO would not last long. That kind of 
simulation/RPG has been done and it won't last long. I remember 
the game Auto Assault, showed great promise but as a MMOARPG it 
turned out to be a flop and quickly.

John

John Slade wrote:
> EMan wrote:
>> On Oct 22, 3:55 pm, DarkOne <ad...@spacesimcentral.com> wrote:
>>> On Oct 20, 3:18 pm, EMan <supreme.evolution...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If anybody was hold off on buying X3 The Terran Conflict because of
>>>> the DRM.  The 2.5 patch just removed it and you can install it on as
>>>> many computers as you like.
>>> I thought you could also play it without the DVD with patch 2.0? I
>>> know with 2.0a you need it, can't remember now but it will be a nice
>>> package once 2.5 comes out. EgoSoft just needs to start working on
>>> something new :)
>>
>> They need to get on with the X:MMO.  Although I'm not sure what they
>> would be able to offer beyond Eve.
> 
>      I suspect X:MMO would not last long. That kind of simulation/RPG 
> has been done and it won't last long. I remember the game Auto Assault, 
> showed great promise but as a MMOARPG it turned out to be a flop and 
> quickly.
> 
> John

Eve Online?

EMan wrote:
> They need to get on with the X:MMO.  Although I'm not sure what they
> would be able to offer beyond Eve.
 
John Slade wrote:
>      I suspect X:MMO would not last long. That kind of simulation/RPG 
> has been done and it won't last long. I remember the game Auto Assault, 
> showed great promise but as a MMOARPG it turned out to be a flop and 
> quickly.
 
rochrist  <rochrist@charter.net> wrote:
> Eve Online?

Eve Online (which was already mentioned), isn't a simulation/RPG.
Gameplay-wise it's pretty much a standard MMORPG set in space.  Eve's
player run economy makes it different from most MMORPGs, but its combat
works more like EverQuest than a joystick controlled space sim game like
X3: Reunion or Elite.

An example of a more or less successful space sim MMO would be Jumpgate:
The Reconstruction Initiative.  It's got a sequel in the works, Jumpgate:
Evolution so it can't be doing too badly.

					Ross Ridge

-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //	  

In article <hf99b4$u4p$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>, 
rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca says...
> 
> EMan wrote:
> > They need to get on with the X:MMO.  Although I'm not sure what they
> > would be able to offer beyond Eve.
>  
> John Slade wrote:
> >      I suspect X:MMO would not last long. That kind of simulation/RPG 
> > has been done and it won't last long. I remember the game Auto Assault, 
> > showed great promise but as a MMOARPG it turned out to be a flop and 
> > quickly.
>  
> rochrist  <rochrist@charter.net> wrote:
> > Eve Online?
> 
> Eve Online (which was already mentioned), isn't a simulation/RPG.
> Gameplay-wise it's pretty much a standard MMORPG set in space.  Eve's
> player run economy makes it different from most MMORPGs, but its combat
> works more like EverQuest than a joystick controlled space sim game like
> X3: Reunion or Elite.
> 
> An example of a more or less successful space sim MMO would be Jumpgate:
> The Reconstruction Initiative.  It's got a sequel in the works, Jumpgate:
> Evolution so it can't be doing too badly.
> 


As somebody knew to PC space sims, where would you say Freelancer, which 
I'm currently playing and enjoying, fits into the genre?

Angus  <angus@_ANTISPEM_angusm.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>As somebody knew to PC space sims, where would you say Freelancer, which 
>I'm currently playing and enjoying, fits into the genre?

I never played it, but my understanding is that Freelancer is different
enough from other space sim games that you might not necessarily like
other games in the genre.  Most other games work are designed to be
played with a joystick.

					Ross Ridge

-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //	  

In article <hfrgo3$7o0$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>, 
rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca says...
> 
> Angus  <angus@_ANTISPEM_angusm.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >As somebody knew to PC space sims, where would you say Freelancer, which 
> >I'm currently playing and enjoying, fits into the genre?
> 
> I never played it, but my understanding is that Freelancer is different
> enough from other space sim games that you might not necessarily like
> other games in the genre.  Most other games work are designed to be
> played with a joystick.
> 
> 					Ross Ridge

One thing that is most noticable: In Freelancer you're pretty much taken 
by the hand and locked into a fairly narrow corridor of progression. It 
looks fairly free and footloose to start with, but you soon realize that 
to improve you have to cross certain T-s and dot certain I-s or a whole 
lot of content won't get unlocked. Once you have finished the storyline, 
at least in my personal experience, the game gets fairly pointless and 
there's little or no replay value ( I am sure some people may violently 
disagree with me on this point ). 

-P.

In article <MPG.258c19158558e09898c3@news.individual.net>, 
no.one@this.address says...
> 
> In article <hfrgo3$7o0$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>, 
> rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca says...
> > 
> > Angus  <angus@_ANTISPEM_angusm.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > >As somebody knew to PC space sims, where would you say Freelancer, which 
> > >I'm currently playing and enjoying, fits into the genre?
> > 
> > I never played it, but my understanding is that Freelancer is different
> > enough from other space sim games that you might not necessarily like
> > other games in the genre.  Most other games work are designed to be
> > played with a joystick.
> > 
> > 					Ross Ridge
> 
> One thing that is most noticable: In Freelancer you're pretty much taken 
> by the hand and locked into a fairly narrow corridor of progression. It 
> looks fairly free and footloose to start with, but you soon realize that 
> to improve you have to cross certain T-s and dot certain I-s or a whole 
> lot of content won't get unlocked. Once you have finished the storyline, 
> at least in my personal experience, the game gets fairly pointless and 
> there's little or no replay value ( I am sure some people may violently 
> disagree with me on this point ). 
> 

Thanks guys. I've played space games on other platforms, but not the pc. 
I take your points about Freelancer, although I'm certainly enjoying the 
ride for the time being. From what I've seen of it, I think I would like 
I-War.

Angus wrote:
> 
> Thanks guys. I've played space games on other platforms, but not the pc. 
> I take your points about Freelancer, although I'm certainly enjoying the 
> ride for the time being. From what I've seen of it, I think I would like 
> I-War.

I wish I could find a way to buy Freelancer other than eBay. I have 
looked for D2Drive or similar options or even a way to buy it from a 
publisher/distributor. I don't want to create a PayPal account or similar.

I actually bought it retail when it first came out but my copy has long 
ago disappeared. Would love to try it on a non-challenged system like my 
old laptop was.


   - Sheldon

"Angus" <angus@_ANTISPEM_angusm.demon.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:MPG.258b65a178f6f8a39896b1@news.demon.co.uk...
> In article <MPG.258c19158558e09898c3@news.individual.net>,
> no.one@this.address says...
>>
>> In article <hfrgo3$7o0$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>,
>> rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca says...
>> >
>> > Angus  <angus@_ANTISPEM_angusm.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> > >As somebody knew to PC space sims, where would you say Freelancer, 
>> > >which
>> > >I'm currently playing and enjoying, fits into the genre?
>> >
>> > I never played it, but my understanding is that Freelancer is different
>> > enough from other space sim games that you might not necessarily like
>> > other games in the genre.  Most other games work are designed to be
>> > played with a joystick.
>> >
>> > Ross Ridge
>>
>> One thing that is most noticable: In Freelancer you're pretty much taken
>> by the hand and locked into a fairly narrow corridor of progression. It
>> looks fairly free and footloose to start with, but you soon realize that
>> to improve you have to cross certain T-s and dot certain I-s or a whole
>> lot of content won't get unlocked. Once you have finished the storyline,
>> at least in my personal experience, the game gets fairly pointless and
>> there's little or no replay value ( I am sure some people may violently
>> disagree with me on this point ).
>>
>
> Thanks guys. I've played space games on other platforms, but not the pc.
> I take your points about Freelancer, although I'm certainly enjoying the
> ride for the time being. From what I've seen of it, I think I would like
> I-War.

Theyre all different in small ways. Freelancer is similar to Privateer 
except the latter was first person based, but the trading etc is the same 
essentially. Elite and Frontier were trading games with other elements 
thrown in such as fighting and exploration. The 'X' games are all very trade 
and exploration based but there isnt much else in terms of action they are 
of a more specialist taste, I found them quite boring after a short while. 
Wing Commander games were all about fighting and missions with loads of 
action - they were brilliant games as you also got a storyline and some 
great cutscenes. Hardwar was set in a specific planet had trading elements 
as well as fighting and was quite similar to Privateer except much more 
constrained and claustrophobic in scope. I War is a fighting game I dont 
think there is much trading involved but revolved around you controlling a 
large powerful ship with a crew rather than being a single small trader like 
the rest. The X Wing games were all mission based fighting action based on 
Star Wars but they were brilliantly conceived although linear and 
frustrating at times because of it. Space Shuttle and MS Space Simulator 
were more realistic games simulating actual spaceships - slow and plodding 
but quite interesting especially Space Shuttle. There were other games such 
as Tachyon  that were variations on the above mainly involving mission based 
action.

Of all of the above the best in my view, that stood out amongst the rest 
were Frontier, Privateer, X Wing and Wing Commander. These all had me 
playing for ages but Frontier/First Encounters had me playing for years. 

In article <hfrpma$la4$1@news.eternal-september.org>, 
sheldonengland@netscape.net says...
> 
> Angus wrote:
> > 
> > Thanks guys. I've played space games on other platforms, but not the pc. 
> > I take your points about Freelancer, although I'm certainly enjoying the 
> > ride for the time being. From what I've seen of it, I think I would like 
> > I-War.
> 
> I wish I could find a way to buy Freelancer other than eBay. I have 
> looked for D2Drive or similar options or even a way to buy it from a 
> publisher/distributor. I don't want to create a PayPal account or similar.
> 
> I actually bought it retail when it first came out but my copy has long 
> ago disappeared. Would love to try it on a non-challenged system like my 
> old laptop was.
> 

I'm the same, I don't particuarly enjooy being pushed into these things, 
and I'm cautious about my the whole creit card thing, but I bit the 
bullet and sorted out a Paypal account and have never had cause to 
regret it in several years. The other thing is, not all sellers insist 
on Paypal.

In article <hfvn2r$im5$1@adenine.netfront.net>, nstutt@homecall.co.uk 
says...
> 
> "Angus" <angus@_ANTISPEM_angusm.demon.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:MPG.258b65a178f6f8a39896b1@news.demon.co.uk...
> > In article <MPG.258c19158558e09898c3@news.individual.net>,
> > no.one@this.address says...
> >>
> >> In article <hfrgo3$7o0$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>,
> >> rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca says...
> >> >
> >> > Angus  <angus@_ANTISPEM_angusm.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >> > >As somebody knew to PC space sims, where would you say Freelancer, 
> >> > >which
> >> > >I'm currently playing and enjoying, fits into the genre?
> >> >
> >> > I never played it, but my understanding is that Freelancer is different
> >> > enough from other space sim games that you might not necessarily like
> >> > other games in the genre.  Most other games work are designed to be
> >> > played with a joystick.
> >> >
> >> > Ross Ridge
> >>
> >> One thing that is most noticable: In Freelancer you're pretty much taken
> >> by the hand and locked into a fairly narrow corridor of progression. It
> >> looks fairly free and footloose to start with, but you soon realize that
> >> to improve you have to cross certain T-s and dot certain I-s or a whole
> >> lot of content won't get unlocked. Once you have finished the storyline,
> >> at least in my personal experience, the game gets fairly pointless and
> >> there's little or no replay value ( I am sure some people may violently
> >> disagree with me on this point ).
> >>
> >
> > Thanks guys. I've played space games on other platforms, but not the pc.
> > I take your points about Freelancer, although I'm certainly enjoying the
> > ride for the time being. From what I've seen of it, I think I would like
> > I-War.
> 
> Theyre all different in small ways. Freelancer is similar to Privateer 
> except the latter was first person based, 

Well, I play Freelancer in first person, I hate playing games in third 
person generally, I mean, why wouldn't you want to BE THERE?!   :)


> 
> Of all of the above the best in my view, that stood out amongst the rest 
> were Frontier, Privateer, X Wing and Wing Commander. These all had me 
> playing for ages but Frontier/First Encounters had me playing for years. 


Thanks very much for the breakdown of the game types. I have a 
spacestation named after me in Frontier by the way.  :)

sheldonengland@netscape.net says...
> I wish I could find a way to buy Freelancer other than eBay. I have 
> looked for D2Drive or similar options or even a way to buy it from a 
> publisher/distributor. I don't want to create a PayPal account or similar.

Angus  <angus@_ANTISPEM_angusm.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>I'm the same, I don't particuarly enjooy being pushed into these things, 
>and I'm cautious about my the whole creit card thing, but I bit the 
>bullet and sorted out a Paypal account and have never had cause to 
>regret it in several years. The other thing is, not all sellers insist 
>on Paypal.

Last I heard eBay insisted on Paypal.  Sellers in categories like video
games have no choice but to accept Paypal and only Paypal.

					Ross Ridge

-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //	  

Ross Ridge wrote:
> 
> Last I heard eBay insisted on Paypal.  Sellers in categories like video
> games have no choice but to accept Paypal and only Paypal.

Sigh. Kinda what I thought. Thanks for confirming.


   - Sheldon

In article <hg68lb$q9a$1@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>, 
rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca says...
> 
> sheldonengland@netscape.net says...
> > I wish I could find a way to buy Freelancer other than eBay. I have 
> > looked for D2Drive or similar options or even a way to buy it from a 
> > publisher/distributor. I don't want to create a PayPal account or similar.
> 
> Angus  <angus@_ANTISPEM_angusm.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >I'm the same, I don't particuarly enjooy being pushed into these things, 
> >and I'm cautious about my the whole creit card thing, but I bit the 
> >bullet and sorted out a Paypal account and have never had cause to 
> >regret it in several years. The other thing is, not all sellers insist 
> >on Paypal.
> 
> Last I heard eBay insisted on Paypal.  Sellers in categories like video
> games have no choice but to accept Paypal and only Paypal.
> 


Oops, sorry. I'm out of date (again) then. I've only used Paypal for a 
while and assumed the other options were still there. I gather work is 
afoot to phase cheques out for ever - after 350 years of them.

rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca says...
> Last I heard eBay insisted on Paypal.  Sellers in categories like video
> games have no choice but to accept Paypal and only Paypal.

Angus  <angus@_ANTISPEM_angusm.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Oops, sorry. I'm out of date (again) then. I've only used Paypal for a 
>while and assumed the other options were still there. I gather work is 
>afoot to phase cheques out for ever - after 350 years of them.

No, it's just that eBay wants to make more money. 

					Ross Ridge

-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //