🚀 go-pugleaf

You don't really say which Graphic card - IMO it will need to be around 
$200 + USD new for your hoped for performance.
Get 3+GB Video card memory.
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")  mouse (I'm A Bunny !)

Justisaur wrote:
> Not that I can afford it, but another badly optimized console port (The
> Crew) has me thinking I need a new CPU (so I'll need a new MB & Memory,
> and possibly Power Supply.)
>
> I'm currently running an E6850 Dual Core @ 3.0 GHz.  I'm looking over
> the info for CPUs and I see the CPU recommended for GTA V (similar
> issues) includes an intel i5-3470, AMD FX-8350.  From what I can see the
> AMD costs close to half the price ($159 w $59 gift card vs. 230  and
> provides about 25% more power.  Am I missing something?
>
> I haven't considered a non-intel CPU in ages because the last one I got
> was a POS and had tons of heat and compatibility issues, but AMD's been
> around a long time, so they must be functioning I guess?
>
> Any reason I shouldn't buy one?
>
> Well, while looking them Up on new-egg I see I can buy a whole computer
> with an i5-3470 with 8 GB ram for $271.., or oddly one with 4gb for $214
> which is less than the CPU by itself. I doubt I could assemble something
> like that for anywhere near that price, although I see an 'upgrade kit'
> for $294 for the AMD one with 8gb, but free HD loaded with windows,
> case, PS etc is hard to argue with, especially if I can swap it out to
> my case or give my son the old computer minus the Graphics card (still
> have a 270 I can pop in it to make it useable for his lego games, though
> I'd definately need a new PS if I did that, and that would probably cost
> as much as the computer).
>
> I did just get $200 for my b-day I could just about buy the full
> computer for that.
>
> Or I could forget about buying a CPU to play badly ported console games
> and just buy the game for about $12 on the XBOX 360.  That'd save me at
> least $200.

It looks like all those cheap computers are HP Small Form Factor trash 
with proprietary case & motherboards that won't actually work for 
upgrades.

I found this one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA8XK4NF8252&cm_re=i7_8gb_refurbished_desktop-_-9SIA8XK4NF8252-_-Product

i7 2600 3.4Gz, with 8 GB ram, 1 TB HD, DVD player for $269.  What I'm 
figuring is buyng that ripping all those parts out and tossing the case, 
Power-supply & motherboard.  Especially since the CPU itself would cost 
over $400 by itself, so all the rest just saves me money.  I'd need a 
new MB, looks like I can get one around $60.  I'd need to buy another 
case too if if I want my old computer for my son.

Doesn't really surprise me that HP made a computer that not only is 
worth less than the sum of it's parts, but is actually worth less than 
one of it's parts.  Value minus.

Or again, I can just buy the game on the xbox 360 for $12, but it pains 
me that my computer makes these games mostly unplayable.

- Justisaur

On Mon, 3 Oct 2016 15:17:58 -0700, Justisaur <just...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Justisaur wrote:
>> Not that I can afford it, but another badly optimized console port (The
>> Crew) has me thinking I need a new CPU (so I'll need a new MB & Memory,
>> and possibly Power Supply.)
>>
>> I'm currently running an E6850 Dual Core @ 3.0 GHz.  I'm looking over
>> the info for CPUs and I see the CPU recommended for GTA V (similar
>> issues) includes an intel i5-3470, AMD FX-8350.  From what I can see the
>> AMD costs close to half the price ($159 w $59 gift card vs. 230  and
>> provides about 25% more power.  Am I missing something?
>>
>> I haven't considered a non-intel CPU in ages because the last one I got
>> was a POS and had tons of heat and compatibility issues, but AMD's been
>> around a long time, so they must be functioning I guess?
>>
>> Any reason I shouldn't buy one?
>>
>> Well, while looking them Up on new-egg I see I can buy a whole computer
>> with an i5-3470 with 8 GB ram for $271.., or oddly one with 4gb for $214
>> which is less than the CPU by itself. I doubt I could assemble something
>> like that for anywhere near that price, although I see an 'upgrade kit'
>> for $294 for the AMD one with 8gb, but free HD loaded with windows,
>> case, PS etc is hard to argue with, especially if I can swap it out to
>> my case or give my son the old computer minus the Graphics card (still
>> have a 270 I can pop in it to make it useable for his lego games, though
>> I'd definately need a new PS if I did that, and that would probably cost
>> as much as the computer).
>>
>> I did just get $200 for my b-day I could just about buy the full
>> computer for that.
>>
>> Or I could forget about buying a CPU to play badly ported console games
>> and just buy the game for about $12 on the XBOX 360.  That'd save me at
>> least $200.
>
>It looks like all those cheap computers are HP Small Form Factor trash 
>with proprietary case & motherboards that won't actually work for 
>upgrades.
>
>I found this one:
>http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA8XK4NF8252&cm_re=i7_8gb_refurbished_desktop-_-9SIA8XK4NF8252-_-Product
>
>i7 2600 3.4Gz, with 8 GB ram, 1 TB HD, DVD player for $269.  What I'm 
>figuring is buyng that ripping all those parts out and tossing the case, 
>Power-supply & motherboard.  Especially since the CPU itself would cost 
>over $400 by itself, so all the rest just saves me money.  I'd need a 
>new MB, looks like I can get one around $60.  I'd need to buy another 
>case too if if I want my old computer for my son.

Maybe I scanned your post too quickly I can't seem to fully wrap my
head around the approach you're taking here.  For a low-end CPU, just
picking up a i5-4690k would give you better results than the 2600 and
is only about $239.  

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/287?vs=1261

I wouldn't mess with some business class refurb just to harvest the
CPU.

Justisaur <just...@gmail.com> writes:

> Not that I can afford it, but another badly optimized console port
> (The Crew) has me thinking I need a new CPU (so I'll need a new MB &
> Memory, and possibly Power Supply.)

I don't have much idea what's best to get in your case, but Anandtech
just published their CPU recommendations for Q3 2016
(http://www.anandtech.com/show/9793/best-cpus). They recommend Intel
Pentium G3258 ($67) or AMD Athlon X4 845 ($77) in the gaming on budget
category (where you'd want to overclock the cheap CPU) or AMD Athlon X4
880K for honorable mention for price/performance.

For single GPU gaming, they recommend Intel i5-6600 ($222) or Intel
i5-6600K ($229).

> I'm currently running an E6850 Dual Core @ 3.0 GHz.  I'm looking over
> the info for CPUs and I see the CPU recommended for GTA V (similar
> issues) includes an intel i5-3470, AMD FX-8350.  From what I can see
> the AMD costs close to half the price ($159 w $59 gift card vs. 230
> and provides about 25% more power.  Am I missing something?

I think an Intel i5-3470 might have somewhat limited motherboard
selection at this point since it's three generations behind and
considering it's no cheaper than current CPUs, why even bother?

Justisaur <just...@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>Not that I can afford it, but another badly optimized console port (The 
>Crew) has me thinking I need a new CPU (so I'll need a new MB & Memory, 
>and possibly Power Supply.)
>
>I'm currently running an E6850 Dual Core @ 3.0 GHz.  I'm looking over 
>the info for CPUs and I see the CPU recommended for GTA V (similar 
>issues) includes an intel i5-3470, AMD FX-8350.  From what I can see the 
>AMD costs close to half the price ($159 w $59 gift card vs. 230  and 
>provides about 25% more power.  Am I missing something?
>
>I haven't considered a non-intel CPU in ages because the last one I got 
>was a POS and had tons of heat and compatibility issues, but AMD's been 
>around a long time, so they must be functioning I guess?
>
>Any reason I shouldn't buy one?
>
>Well, while looking them Up on new-egg I see I can buy a whole computer 
>with an i5-3470 with 8 GB ram for $271.., or oddly one with 4gb for $214 
>which is less than the CPU by itself. I doubt I could assemble something 
>like that for anywhere near that price, although I see an 'upgrade kit' 
>for $294 for the AMD one with 8gb, but free HD loaded with windows, 
>case, PS etc is hard to argue with, especially if I can swap it out to 
>my case or give my son the old computer minus the Graphics card (still 
>have a 270 I can pop in it to make it useable for his lego games, though 
>I'd definately need a new PS if I did that, and that would probably cost 
>as much as the computer).

You need to closely examine the specs for these things, not just the CPU
and ram it has.   The slots for cards, the bios it has and what that
supports and so on.

Very often the ones that come with X amount of ram, you can't add any
more later.
Then there's the cheapie ones with Intel graphics, which may not even
have a slot for a graphics card so that is all you have.

Refurbished = it's already broken once, maybe it's fixed, maybe not, and
you'll have a "warranty" that's 90 days max.
Business computer = not intended for games, so probably won't run them
well/at all.

If you don't research them before you buy (and that means the
manufacturer's website and review of the board done by reputable sites,)
chances are you're going to end up with crap that will be a complete
waste of money.

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of 
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, 
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So 
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr 

On Mon, 3 Oct 2016 13:39:53 -0700, Justisaur <just...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>I haven't considered a non-intel CPU in ages because the last one I got 
>was a POS and had tons of heat and compatibility issues, but AMD's been 
>around a long time, so they must be functioning I guess?
>
>Any reason I shouldn't buy one?

My feeling on this is that you can now easily get 4+ years out of a
CPU/Motherboard combo if you make the right choice. My opinion is to
spend the extra now, you won't regret it.

Just like you, every time I went with a non-Intel processor there
ended up being a reason I regretted it. Buy smart now and its likely
that alll you end up shopping for is a video card upgrade for a long
time.

Rin Stowleigh wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Oct 2016 15:17:58 -0700, Justisaur <just...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Justisaur wrote:
>>> Not that I can afford it, but another badly optimized console port (The
>>> Crew) has me thinking I need a new CPU (so I'll need a new MB & Memory,
>>> and possibly Power Supply.)
>>>
>>> I'm currently running an E6850 Dual Core @ 3.0 GHz.  I'm looking over
>>> the info for CPUs and I see the CPU recommended for GTA V (similar
>>> issues) includes an intel i5-3470, AMD FX-8350.  From what I can see the
>>> AMD costs close to half the price ($159 w $59 gift card vs. 230  and
>>> provides about 25% more power.  Am I missing something?
>>>
>>> I haven't considered a non-intel CPU in ages because the last one I got
>>> was a POS and had tons of heat and compatibility issues, but AMD's been
>>> around a long time, so they must be functioning I guess?
>>>
>>> Any reason I shouldn't buy one?
>>>
>>> Well, while looking them Up on new-egg I see I can buy a whole computer
>>> with an i5-3470 with 8 GB ram for $271.., or oddly one with 4gb for $214
>>> which is less than the CPU by itself. I doubt I could assemble something
>>> like that for anywhere near that price, although I see an 'upgrade kit'
>>> for $294 for the AMD one with 8gb, but free HD loaded with windows,
>>> case, PS etc is hard to argue with, especially if I can swap it out to
>>> my case or give my son the old computer minus the Graphics card (still
>>> have a 270 I can pop in it to make it useable for his lego games, though
>>> I'd definately need a new PS if I did that, and that would probably cost
>>> as much as the computer).
>>>
>>> I did just get $200 for my b-day I could just about buy the full
>>> computer for that.
>>>
>>> Or I could forget about buying a CPU to play badly ported console games
>>> and just buy the game for about $12 on the XBOX 360.  That'd save me at
>>> least $200.
>>
>> It looks like all those cheap computers are HP Small Form Factor trash
>> with proprietary case & motherboards that won't actually work for
>> upgrades.
>>
>> I found this one:
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA8XK4NF8252&cm_re=i7_8gb_refurbished_desktop-_-9SIA8XK4NF8252-_-Product
>>
>> i7 2600 3.4Gz, with 8 GB ram, 1 TB HD, DVD player for $269.  What I'm
>> figuring is buyng that ripping all those parts out and tossing the case,
>> Power-supply & motherboard.  Especially since the CPU itself would cost
>> over $400 by itself, so all the rest just saves me money.  I'd need a
>> new MB, looks like I can get one around $60.  I'd need to buy another
>> case too if if I want my old computer for my son.
>
> Maybe I scanned your post too quickly I can't seem to fully wrap my
> head around the approach you're taking here.  For a low-end CPU, just
> picking up a i5-4690k would give you better results than the 2600 and
> is only about $239.
>
> http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/287?vs=1261
>
> I wouldn't mess with some business class refurb just to harvest the
> CPU.

Well it's the CPU, HD, DVD Drive and Memory.  I don't absoultely need a 
new HD, I'd rather get an SSD, but I never seem to have enough storage. 
But the memory I do, and my DVD's been spotty, I'd rather get a blue-ray 
too, but as I said, extremely small budget.

According to passmark i7 2600 is better.  I'd rather look at comparisons 
specifically for GTA V, but finding those is a lot harder.

- Justisaur

Rin Stowleigh wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Oct 2016 15:17:58 -0700, Justisaur <just...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Justisaur wrote:
>>> Not that I can afford it, but another badly optimized console port (The
>>> Crew) has me thinking I need a new CPU (so I'll need a new MB & Memory,
>>> and possibly Power Supply.)
>>>
>>> I'm currently running an E6850 Dual Core @ 3.0 GHz.  I'm looking over
>>> the info for CPUs and I see the CPU recommended for GTA V (similar
>>> issues) includes an intel i5-3470, AMD FX-8350.  From what I can see the
>>> AMD costs close to half the price ($159 w $59 gift card vs. 230  and
>>> provides about 25% more power.  Am I missing something?
>>>
>>> I haven't considered a non-intel CPU in ages because the last one I got
>>> was a POS and had tons of heat and compatibility issues, but AMD's been
>>> around a long time, so they must be functioning I guess?
>>>
>>> Any reason I shouldn't buy one?
>>>
>>> Well, while looking them Up on new-egg I see I can buy a whole computer
>>> with an i5-3470 with 8 GB ram for $271.., or oddly one with 4gb for $214
>>> which is less than the CPU by itself. I doubt I could assemble something
>>> like that for anywhere near that price, although I see an 'upgrade kit'
>>> for $294 for the AMD one with 8gb, but free HD loaded with windows,
>>> case, PS etc is hard to argue with, especially if I can swap it out to
>>> my case or give my son the old computer minus the Graphics card (still
>>> have a 270 I can pop in it to make it useable for his lego games, though
>>> I'd definately need a new PS if I did that, and that would probably cost
>>> as much as the computer).
>>>
>>> I did just get $200 for my b-day I could just about buy the full
>>> computer for that.
>>>
>>> Or I could forget about buying a CPU to play badly ported console games
>>> and just buy the game for about $12 on the XBOX 360.  That'd save me at
>>> least $200.
>>
>> It looks like all those cheap computers are HP Small Form Factor trash
>> with proprietary case & motherboards that won't actually work for
>> upgrades.
>>
>> I found this one:
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA8XK4NF8252&cm_re=i7_8gb_refurbished_desktop-_-9SIA8XK4NF8252-_-Product
>>
>> i7 2600 3.4Gz, with 8 GB ram, 1 TB HD, DVD player for $269.  What I'm
>> figuring is buyng that ripping all those parts out and tossing the case,
>> Power-supply & motherboard.  Especially since the CPU itself would cost
>> over $400 by itself, so all the rest just saves me money.  I'd need a
>> new MB, looks like I can get one around $60.  I'd need to buy another
>> case too if if I want my old computer for my son.
>
> Maybe I scanned your post too quickly I can't seem to fully wrap my
> head around the approach you're taking here.  For a low-end CPU, just
> picking up a i5-4690k would give you better results than the 2600 and
> is only about $239.
>
> http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/287?vs=1261
>
> I wouldn't mess with some business class refurb just to harvest the
> CPU.
>

CPU and Memory, Also the HD & DVD.  I don't NEED another HD or DVD, but 
it's more parts toward another computer for the son.

According to passmark the i7-2600 is better, but I'm not sure, I've seen 
mentioned GTA & other console ports work better with more cores, which 
the 2600 has 2 +2 logical, vs. 4 cores.  I haven't been able to find 
comparisons for GTA specifically.


- Justisaur

Trimble Bracegirdle wrote:
> You don't really say which Graphic card - IMO it will need to be around
> $200 + USD new for your hoped for performance.
> Get 3+GB Video card memory.
> (\__/)
> (='.'=)
> (")_(")  mouse (I'm A Bunny !)
>

I've got an Nvida GeForce GTX 950.  I bought it so I could play Fallout 
4, so I'm probably set on the GPU for some time.  I've got a 270 sitting 
in a drawer that was running the son's Lego games should I get the rest 
of the parts for that.

- Justisaur

On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 09:10:41 -0700, Justisaur <just...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Rin Stowleigh wrote:
>> On Mon, 3 Oct 2016 15:17:58 -0700, Justisaur <just...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Justisaur wrote:
>>>> Not that I can afford it, but another badly optimized console port (The
>>>> Crew) has me thinking I need a new CPU (so I'll need a new MB & Memory,
>>>> and possibly Power Supply.)
>>>>
>>>> I'm currently running an E6850 Dual Core @ 3.0 GHz.  I'm looking over
>>>> the info for CPUs and I see the CPU recommended for GTA V (similar
>>>> issues) includes an intel i5-3470, AMD FX-8350.  From what I can see the
>>>> AMD costs close to half the price ($159 w $59 gift card vs. 230  and
>>>> provides about 25% more power.  Am I missing something?
>>>>
>>>> I haven't considered a non-intel CPU in ages because the last one I got
>>>> was a POS and had tons of heat and compatibility issues, but AMD's been
>>>> around a long time, so they must be functioning I guess?
>>>>
>>>> Any reason I shouldn't buy one?
>>>>
>>>> Well, while looking them Up on new-egg I see I can buy a whole computer
>>>> with an i5-3470 with 8 GB ram for $271.., or oddly one with 4gb for $214
>>>> which is less than the CPU by itself. I doubt I could assemble something
>>>> like that for anywhere near that price, although I see an 'upgrade kit'
>>>> for $294 for the AMD one with 8gb, but free HD loaded with windows,
>>>> case, PS etc is hard to argue with, especially if I can swap it out to
>>>> my case or give my son the old computer minus the Graphics card (still
>>>> have a 270 I can pop in it to make it useable for his lego games, though
>>>> I'd definately need a new PS if I did that, and that would probably cost
>>>> as much as the computer).
>>>>
>>>> I did just get $200 for my b-day I could just about buy the full
>>>> computer for that.
>>>>
>>>> Or I could forget about buying a CPU to play badly ported console games
>>>> and just buy the game for about $12 on the XBOX 360.  That'd save me at
>>>> least $200.
>>>
>>> It looks like all those cheap computers are HP Small Form Factor trash
>>> with proprietary case & motherboards that won't actually work for
>>> upgrades.
>>>
>>> I found this one:
>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA8XK4NF8252&cm_re=i7_8gb_refurbished_desktop-_-9SIA8XK4NF8252-_-Product
>>>
>>> i7 2600 3.4Gz, with 8 GB ram, 1 TB HD, DVD player for $269.  What I'm
>>> figuring is buyng that ripping all those parts out and tossing the case,
>>> Power-supply & motherboard.  Especially since the CPU itself would cost
>>> over $400 by itself, so all the rest just saves me money.  I'd need a
>>> new MB, looks like I can get one around $60.  I'd need to buy another
>>> case too if if I want my old computer for my son.
>>
>> Maybe I scanned your post too quickly I can't seem to fully wrap my
>> head around the approach you're taking here.  For a low-end CPU, just
>> picking up a i5-4690k would give you better results than the 2600 and
>> is only about $239.
>>
>> http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/287?vs=1261
>>
>> I wouldn't mess with some business class refurb just to harvest the
>> CPU.
>>
>
>CPU and Memory, Also the HD & DVD.  I don't NEED another HD or DVD, but 
>it's more parts toward another computer for the son.
>
>According to passmark the i7-2600 is better, but I'm not sure, I've seen 
>mentioned GTA & other console ports work better with more cores, which 
>the 2600 has 2 +2 logical, vs. 4 cores.  I haven't been able to find 
>comparisons for GTA specifically.


Not trying to force my opinion here or anything but the memory is
probably worth thirty bucks probably 1066 DDR3, a used HD 1TB worth
maybe $10 (a new one is $50) and a HD is the last component I would
ever want used or refurb, because of the moving parts, and you don't
know what sort of heat torture its been exposed to in a slim case.

I used to have a slim profile machine refurb many years back, and
every time I put anything greater than a 5400rpm drive in it, the
drive would last about 8 months.  The system was originally designed
and tested with the spec parts, and adding anything of greater
performance added heat that the airflow of the case couldn't properly
handle.  Added heat tends tol reduce the life of a hard drive, which
have a limited average lifespan anyway.

I know you're planning to discard the case, but I'm point that out to
say any hard drive that performs reasonably and has been in that case
for any period of time probably has its days numbered.

I doubt you'd care about the passmark score as much as the other
benchmarks I posted with those two processors, but even if so redirect
attention from the i5-4xxx to the i7-4xxx, and you're into much better
passmark scores and the hyperthreading you want.

Justisaur  <just...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I'm currently running an E6850 Dual Core @ 3.0 GHz.  I'm looking over 
>the info for CPUs and I see the CPU recommended for GTA V (similar 
>issues) includes an intel i5-3470, AMD FX-8350.  From what I can see the 
>AMD costs close to half the price ($159 w $59 gift card vs. 230  and 
>provides about 25% more power.  Am I missing something?

The Intel i5-3470 is a 4-core 3.2 GHz (3.6 GHz turbo) "Ivy Bridge"
processor, while the AMD FX-8350 is 8-core 4.0 GHz (4.2 GHz turbo)
"Piledriver" processor.  Those names in quotes, the microarchitecture
name, make a big difference, especially in gaming.  Gigahertz for
gigahertz an Ivy Bridge CPU has a much better single threaded performance
than a Piledriver CPU.  The extra 4 cores will probably sit idle
while running most games with one thread running on one CPU being the
bottleneck. (And if it's not the CPU, it'll be the GPU, and if it's not
the GPU, it'll be memory bandwith.)  So between the two, for gaming I'd
get the i5-3470 over the FX-8350, as you're probably going to get at least
25% better performance in games with the Intel processor over the AMD one.

I found a review online that compares the FX-8350 with the i5-3570K
(slightly faster than the i5-3470 at 3.4/3.8 GHz):

	http://www.techradar.com/reviews/pc-mac/pc-components/processors/amd-fx-8350-1137704/review

Unfortunately AMD is only really competive with in Intel at the low end.
Unless you're doing a lot of video encoding or something else that can
make use of all 8 cores, AMD high end CPUs aren't a good value compared
to Intel's mid range CPUs.

I'd echo that Tim O said and save up for a good current Intel mid-range
($200) CPU with an appropriate motherboard.  Stick it in a good sized
case, even if you have to do it yourself.  CPU technology isn't advancing
the way it used to be and there are signs it's about to hit a wall.
With AMD failing to catch up I also suspect that Intel will start
jacking up their prices, so I expect to see Intel charging more for only
marginally better CPUs.  A good CPU should easily last 5 years, maybe 10
given how much things are slowing down.  As it is, I'm using an 7 year
old $200 Intel CPU without much pain, though I mostly play older games.

I think the only risk is that the 8-core AMD-based PlayStation 4 and
Xbox One consoles might cause a seismic shift in how games are designed,
some how changing the equation to prefer more cores over better single
threaded performance.  However after almost 3 years there's no sign of
this happening.  The PC is still the king of gaming performance.

>Or I could forget about buying a CPU to play badly ported console games 
>and just buy the game for about $12 on the XBOX 360.  That'd save me at 
>least $200.

Well, there aren't many new games these days for now discontinued Xbox
360, but if you're fine with its back catalog that should keep you
entertained for a while. 

					Ross Ridge

-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //	  

On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 at 11:52:41 AM UTC-7, Ross Ridge wrote:
> Justisaur  <just...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >I'm currently running an E6850 Dual Core @ 3.0 GHz.  I'm looking over 
> >the info for CPUs and I see the CPU recommended for GTA V (similar 
> >issues) includes an intel i5-3470, AMD FX-8350.  From what I can see the 
> >AMD costs close to half the price ($159 w $59 gift card vs. 230  and 
> >provides about 25% more power.  Am I missing something?
> 
> The Intel i5-3470 is a 4-core 3.2 GHz (3.6 GHz turbo) "Ivy Bridge"
> processor, while the AMD FX-8350 is 8-core 4.0 GHz (4.2 GHz turbo)
> "Piledriver" processor.  Those names in quotes, the microarchitecture
> name, make a big difference, especially in gaming.  Gigahertz for
> gigahertz an Ivy Bridge CPU has a much better single threaded performance
> than a Piledriver CPU.  The extra 4 cores will probably sit idle
> while running most games with one thread running on one CPU being the
> bottleneck. (And if it's not the CPU, it'll be the GPU, and if it's not
> the GPU, it'll be memory bandwith.)  So between the two, for gaming I'd
> get the i5-3470 over the FX-8350, as you're probably going to get at least
> 25% better performance in games with the Intel processor over the AMD one.
> 
> I found a review online that compares the FX-8350 with the i5-3570K
> (slightly faster than the i5-3470 at 3.4/3.8 GHz):
> 
> 	http://www.techradar.com/reviews/pc-mac/pc-components/processors/amd-fx-8350-1137704/review
> 
> Unfortunately AMD is only really competive with in Intel at the low end.
> Unless you're doing a lot of video encoding or something else that can
> make use of all 8 cores, AMD high end CPUs aren't a good value compared
> to Intel's mid range CPUs.
> 
> I'd echo that Tim O said and save up for a good current Intel mid-range
> ($200) CPU with an appropriate motherboard.  Stick it in a good sized
> case, even if you have to do it yourself.  CPU technology isn't advancing
> the way it used to be and there are signs it's about to hit a wall.
> With AMD failing to catch up I also suspect that Intel will start
> jacking up their prices, so I expect to see Intel charging more for only
> marginally better CPUs.  A good CPU should easily last 5 years, maybe 10
> given how much things are slowing down.  As it is, I'm using an 7 year
> old $200 Intel CPU without much pain, though I mostly play older games.
> 
> I think the only risk is that the 8-core AMD-based PlayStation 4 and
> Xbox One consoles might cause a seismic shift in how games are designed,
> some how changing the equation to prefer more cores over better single
> threaded performance.  However after almost 3 years there's no sign of
> this happening.  The PC is still the king of gaming performance.

That was the point, my 8 year old CPU doesn't matter in the slightest with most games, which actually use the GPU, but some console ports are nearly unplayable on it - GTA IV and now The Crew.  I'm starting to think I'm going to just forget it because I still see people getting crap performance even with newer CPUs for The Crew with no apparent reason or fix.  If I thought it would fix my issues for sure, I'd do it, or if I really had the spare cash to do it right - New CPU, MB, Memory and an SSD, but it seems iffy if it'll work, which makes me shy of it.  

Since those games seem to be better with more cores, I was wondering if the AMD would be a better choice since you get more cores for less.  Does anyone actually use the AMD and played those games?  

I may just have to do a lot more research at this point.

I've now got the Crew on minimum settings except for resolution, and am overriding what I can with the Nvidia control panel at max and it seems far better, some of the graphics are a bit blocky looking due to the low textures, but the car bodies and buildings look decent with the AA maxed.

- Justisaur

On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 09:03:04 -0700 (PDT), Justisaur
<just...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Since those games seem to be better with more cores, I was wondering if the AMD would be a better choice since you get more cores for less.  Does anyone actually use the AMD and played those games?  

The thing is you don't need more than four physical cores if gaming is
the sole purpose of the CPU, so at any given price point you're just
going to get more bang for your buck and have less problems from an
Intel CPU.

My CPU has six physical cores, but I doubt any games utilize the
additional two, the real benefit there for gaming would be just that I
can easily have more background services running without the processor
requiring to schedule their execution onto the four cores handling the
game.

I agree with what Ross said about just getting a decent Intel CPU and
enjoy the fact that you won't need another one for a while.

On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 at 9:51:13 AM UTC-7, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 09:10:41 -0700, Justisaur <just...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >Rin Stowleigh wrote:
> >> On Mon, 3 Oct 2016 15:17:58 -0700, Justisaur <just...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Justisaur wrote:
> >>>> Not that I can afford it, but another badly optimized console port (The
> >>>> Crew) has me thinking I need a new CPU (so I'll need a new MB & Memory,
> >>>> and possibly Power Supply.)
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm currently running an E6850 Dual Core @ 3.0 GHz.  I'm looking over
> >>>> the info for CPUs and I see the CPU recommended for GTA V (similar
> >>>> issues) includes an intel i5-3470, AMD FX-8350.  From what I can see the
> >>>> AMD costs close to half the price ($159 w $59 gift card vs. 230  and
> >>>> provides about 25% more power.  Am I missing something?
> >>>>
> >>>> I haven't considered a non-intel CPU in ages because the last one I got
> >>>> was a POS and had tons of heat and compatibility issues, but AMD's been
> >>>> around a long time, so they must be functioning I guess?
> >>>>
> >>>> Any reason I shouldn't buy one?
> >>>>
> >>>> Well, while looking them Up on new-egg I see I can buy a whole computer
> >>>> with an i5-3470 with 8 GB ram for $271.., or oddly one with 4gb for $214
> >>>> which is less than the CPU by itself. I doubt I could assemble something
> >>>> like that for anywhere near that price, although I see an 'upgrade kit'
> >>>> for $294 for the AMD one with 8gb, but free HD loaded with windows,
> >>>> case, PS etc is hard to argue with, especially if I can swap it out to
> >>>> my case or give my son the old computer minus the Graphics card (still
> >>>> have a 270 I can pop in it to make it useable for his lego games, though
> >>>> I'd definately need a new PS if I did that, and that would probably cost
> >>>> as much as the computer).
> >>>>
> >>>> I did just get $200 for my b-day I could just about buy the full
> >>>> computer for that.
> >>>>
> >>>> Or I could forget about buying a CPU to play badly ported console games
> >>>> and just buy the game for about $12 on the XBOX 360.  That'd save me at
> >>>> least $200.
> >>>
> >>> It looks like all those cheap computers are HP Small Form Factor trash
> >>> with proprietary case & motherboards that won't actually work for
> >>> upgrades.
> >>>
> >>> I found this one:
> >>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA8XK4NF8252&cm_re=i7_8gb_refurbished_desktop-_-9SIA8XK4NF8252-_-Product
> >>>
> >>> i7 2600 3.4Gz, with 8 GB ram, 1 TB HD, DVD player for $269.  What I'm
> >>> figuring is buyng that ripping all those parts out and tossing the case,
> >>> Power-supply & motherboard.  Especially since the CPU itself would cost
> >>> over $400 by itself, so all the rest just saves me money.  I'd need a
> >>> new MB, looks like I can get one around $60.  I'd need to buy another
> >>> case too if if I want my old computer for my son.
> >>
> >> Maybe I scanned your post too quickly I can't seem to fully wrap my
> >> head around the approach you're taking here.  For a low-end CPU, just
> >> picking up a i5-4690k would give you better results than the 2600 and
> >> is only about $239.
> >>
> >> http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/287?vs=1261
> >>
> >> I wouldn't mess with some business class refurb just to harvest the
> >> CPU.
> >>
> >
> >CPU and Memory, Also the HD & DVD.  I don't NEED another HD or DVD, but 
> >it's more parts toward another computer for the son.
> >
> >According to passmark the i7-2600 is better, but I'm not sure, I've seen 
> >mentioned GTA & other console ports work better with more cores, which 
> >the 2600 has 2 +2 logical, vs. 4 cores.  I haven't been able to find 
> >comparisons for GTA specifically.
> 
> 
> Not trying to force my opinion here or anything but the memory is
> probably worth thirty bucks probably 1066 DDR3, a used HD 1TB worth
> maybe $10 (a new one is $50) and a HD is the last component I would
> ever want used or refurb, because of the moving parts, and you don't
> know what sort of heat torture its been exposed to in a slim case.
> 

Wow, I assumed the memory would be much more, it's been 8 years since I bought any... I see I can get 8 gb for $20 now going to 16 is quite the price jump to $85 though so probably not worth it, I also assumed the HD would be worth more too.  That does put a damper on the idea of harvesting those.

> I used to have a slim profile machine refurb many years back, and
> every time I put anything greater than a 5400rpm drive in it, the
> drive would last about 8 months.  The system was originally designed
> and tested with the spec parts, and adding anything of greater
> performance added heat that the airflow of the case couldn't properly
> handle.  Added heat tends tol reduce the life of a hard drive, which
> have a limited average lifespan anyway.

Yeah, we've got some at work, they're doing remarkably well, but then they mostly use web apps and I rarely see more than a couple GB used.   I know they wouldn't work out too well for a gaming computer, which is why I was planning on tossing the MB & Case.

> I doubt you'd care about the passmark score as much as the other
> benchmarks I posted with those two processors, but even if so redirect
> attention from the i5-4xxx to the i7-4xxx, and you're into much better
> passmark scores and the hyperthreading you want.

I just did find some GTA V specific CPU benchmarks.

http://pclab.pl/zdjecia/artykuly/chaostheory/2015/04/gtav/charts5/gtav_vhigh_cpu.png

it looks like the AMDs are significantly slower, so that question answered.

from that link, the ones I was looking at 

AMD FX-8350  - 37 fps min $100
i7-2600k     - 57 fps min (base not oc) $400+ ($269 in the refurb)
i5-4690k     - 63 fps min (base not oc) $239

So your recommendation was the best.  I can get a i5-4690 and the memory for less than the refurb with a bit more peace of mind. 

As another option, looking at that chart the best not overclocked (not really into ocing have had enough heat issues in the past) is: 

i7-4790k     - 70 fps min $297

I don't know I'd want to pay an extra $60 for 10% more performance especially at that high of frame rate.  

- Justisaur

On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 10:22:51 -0700 (PDT), Justisaur
<just...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 at 9:51:13 AM UTC-7, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
>> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 09:10:41 -0700, Justisaur <just...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >Rin Stowleigh wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 3 Oct 2016 15:17:58 -0700, Justisaur <just...@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Justisaur wrote:
>> >>>> Not that I can afford it, but another badly optimized console port (The
>> >>>> Crew) has me thinking I need a new CPU (so I'll need a new MB & Memory,
>> >>>> and possibly Power Supply.)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'm currently running an E6850 Dual Core @ 3.0 GHz.  I'm looking over
>> >>>> the info for CPUs and I see the CPU recommended for GTA V (similar
>> >>>> issues) includes an intel i5-3470, AMD FX-8350.  From what I can see the
>> >>>> AMD costs close to half the price ($159 w $59 gift card vs. 230  and
>> >>>> provides about 25% more power.  Am I missing something?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I haven't considered a non-intel CPU in ages because the last one I got
>> >>>> was a POS and had tons of heat and compatibility issues, but AMD's been
>> >>>> around a long time, so they must be functioning I guess?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Any reason I shouldn't buy one?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Well, while looking them Up on new-egg I see I can buy a whole computer
>> >>>> with an i5-3470 with 8 GB ram for $271.., or oddly one with 4gb for $214
>> >>>> which is less than the CPU by itself. I doubt I could assemble something
>> >>>> like that for anywhere near that price, although I see an 'upgrade kit'
>> >>>> for $294 for the AMD one with 8gb, but free HD loaded with windows,
>> >>>> case, PS etc is hard to argue with, especially if I can swap it out to
>> >>>> my case or give my son the old computer minus the Graphics card (still
>> >>>> have a 270 I can pop in it to make it useable for his lego games, though
>> >>>> I'd definately need a new PS if I did that, and that would probably cost
>> >>>> as much as the computer).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I did just get $200 for my b-day I could just about buy the full
>> >>>> computer for that.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Or I could forget about buying a CPU to play badly ported console games
>> >>>> and just buy the game for about $12 on the XBOX 360.  That'd save me at
>> >>>> least $200.
>> >>>
>> >>> It looks like all those cheap computers are HP Small Form Factor trash
>> >>> with proprietary case & motherboards that won't actually work for
>> >>> upgrades.
>> >>>
>> >>> I found this one:
>> >>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA8XK4NF8252&cm_re=i7_8gb_refurbished_desktop-_-9SIA8XK4NF8252-_-Product
>> >>>
>> >>> i7 2600 3.4Gz, with 8 GB ram, 1 TB HD, DVD player for $269.  What I'm
>> >>> figuring is buyng that ripping all those parts out and tossing the case,
>> >>> Power-supply & motherboard.  Especially since the CPU itself would cost
>> >>> over $400 by itself, so all the rest just saves me money.  I'd need a
>> >>> new MB, looks like I can get one around $60.  I'd need to buy another
>> >>> case too if if I want my old computer for my son.
>> >>
>> >> Maybe I scanned your post too quickly I can't seem to fully wrap my
>> >> head around the approach you're taking here.  For a low-end CPU, just
>> >> picking up a i5-4690k would give you better results than the 2600 and
>> >> is only about $239.
>> >>
>> >> http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/287?vs=1261
>> >>
>> >> I wouldn't mess with some business class refurb just to harvest the
>> >> CPU.
>> >>
>> >
>> >CPU and Memory, Also the HD & DVD.  I don't NEED another HD or DVD, but 
>> >it's more parts toward another computer for the son.
>> >
>> >According to passmark the i7-2600 is better, but I'm not sure, I've seen 
>> >mentioned GTA & other console ports work better with more cores, which 
>> >the 2600 has 2 +2 logical, vs. 4 cores.  I haven't been able to find 
>> >comparisons for GTA specifically.
>> 
>> 
>> Not trying to force my opinion here or anything but the memory is
>> probably worth thirty bucks probably 1066 DDR3, a used HD 1TB worth
>> maybe $10 (a new one is $50) and a HD is the last component I would
>> ever want used or refurb, because of the moving parts, and you don't
>> know what sort of heat torture its been exposed to in a slim case.
>> 
>
>Wow, I assumed the memory would be much more, it's been 8 years since I bought any... I see I can get 8 gb for $20 now going to 16 is quite the price jump to $85 though so probably not worth it, I also assumed the HD would be worth more too.  That does put a damper on the idea of harvesting those.
>
>> I used to have a slim profile machine refurb many years back, and
>> every time I put anything greater than a 5400rpm drive in it, the
>> drive would last about 8 months.  The system was originally designed
>> and tested with the spec parts, and adding anything of greater
>> performance added heat that the airflow of the case couldn't properly
>> handle.  Added heat tends tol reduce the life of a hard drive, which
>> have a limited average lifespan anyway.
>
>Yeah, we've got some at work, they're doing remarkably well, but then they mostly use web apps and I rarely see more than a couple GB used.   I know they wouldn't work out too well for a gaming computer, which is why I was planning on tossing the MB & Case.
>
>> I doubt you'd care about the passmark score as much as the other
>> benchmarks I posted with those two processors, but even if so redirect
>> attention from the i5-4xxx to the i7-4xxx, and you're into much better
>> passmark scores and the hyperthreading you want.
>
>I just did find some GTA V specific CPU benchmarks.
>
>http://pclab.pl/zdjecia/artykuly/chaostheory/2015/04/gtav/charts5/gtav_vhigh_cpu.png
>
>it looks like the AMDs are significantly slower, so that question answered.
>
>from that link, the ones I was looking at 
>
>AMD FX-8350  - 37 fps min $100
>i7-2600k     - 57 fps min (base not oc) $400+ ($269 in the refurb)
>i5-4690k     - 63 fps min (base not oc) $239
>
>So your recommendation was the best.  I can get a i5-4690 and the memory for less than the refurb with a bit more peace of mind. 
>
>As another option, looking at that chart the best not overclocked (not really into ocing have had enough heat issues in the past) is: 
>
>i7-4790k     - 70 fps min $297
>
>I don't know I'd want to pay an extra $60 for 10% more performance especially at that high of frame rate.  

In games the difference will be somewhat negligible on most games, but
actually 10% in performance gain coming from the CPU versus the GPU is
significant these days, because faster GPUs (i.e. maybe not the one
you have today as much as the one you want in the future) experience a
bottlenecking effect on slower CPUs, so that extra $60 or so might buy
you a lot of future proofing, because a future GPU might hit a wall on
the i5 that it wouldn't hit on the i7.

Also if you look at things line 7Zip and WinRAR performance on the i5
versus the i7 you can sometimes see 100% increases give or take,
making it a much better processor for non gaming use in addition to
lower power draw.

It's usually a get what you pay for scenario with Intel, it just comes
down to whether you will use the stuff you pay for or not.  Given the
10% in the games you want to play plus massive gains in many
multithreaded apps, I'd go for the extra $60 without blinking,
personally.

Justisaur wrote:
> Not that I can afford it, but another badly optimized console port (The
> Crew) has me thinking I need a new CPU (so I'll need a new MB & Memory,
> and possibly Power Supply.)
>
> I'm currently running an E6850 Dual Core @ 3.0 GHz.  I'm looking over
> the info for CPUs and I see the CPU recommended for GTA V (similar
> issues) includes an intel i5-3470, AMD FX-8350.  From what I can see the
> AMD costs close to half the price ($159 w $59 gift card vs. 230  and
> provides about 25% more power.  Am I missing something?
>
> I haven't considered a non-intel CPU in ages because the last one I got
> was a POS and had tons of heat and compatibility issues, but AMD's been
> around a long time, so they must be functioning I guess?
>
> Any reason I shouldn't buy one?
>
> Well, while looking them Up on new-egg I see I can buy a whole computer
> with an i5-3470 with 8 GB ram for $271.., or oddly one with 4gb for $214
> which is less than the CPU by itself. I doubt I could assemble something
> like that for anywhere near that price, although I see an 'upgrade kit'
> for $294 for the AMD one with 8gb, but free HD loaded with windows,
> case, PS etc is hard to argue with, especially if I can swap it out to
> my case or give my son the old computer minus the Graphics card (still
> have a 270 I can pop in it to make it useable for his lego games, though
> I'd definately need a new PS if I did that, and that would probably cost
> as much as the computer).
>
> I did just get $200 for my b-day I could just about buy the full
> computer for that.
>
> Or I could forget about buying a CPU to play badly ported console games
> and just buy the game for about $12 on the XBOX 360.  That'd save me at
> least $200.
>
> - Justisaur

Well, setting everything minimum in The Crew, and setting everything 
maximum and max pre rendered frames to 1 in the Nvidia control seems to 
have fixed almost all the lag issues I was having, especially in the 
cities.  I've actually won a few PVP events!  I think some of the people 
winning all the time must have some combination of wheel controller, 
manual shifting, better car for the particular race, better tuned car, 
better computer/network connection, be a better driver.

I tried manual shifting myself, but couldn't get better times on a speed 
skill, I was doing a straight run, so not sure it would make any 
difference there, perhaps downshifting instead of braking would make a 
difference on twisty roads, I think a wheel controller would make more 
of a difference though as steering is pretty finicky with the stick.

It'd probably cost me about $400-$500 with everything I'd need, I could 
skimp some and get it down to about $350 if I don't need a PS, but 
that's still money I just don't have right now, and I don't think any of 
that would improve The Crew for me except for textures, which I'm not 
all that excited about the eye candy usually, so going to have to put it 
off until that situation changes.

Unfortunately windows started complaining my C: drive is about to fail, 
so I'm going to have to replace that.

- Justisuar

On 10/5/2016 11:14 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
 > On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 10:22:51 -0700 (PDT), Justisaur
 > <just...@gmail.com> wrote:
 >
 >> On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 at 9:51:13 AM UTC-7, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
 >>> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 09:10:41 -0700, Justisaur <just...@gmail.com>
 >>> wrote:
 >>>
 >>>> Rin Stowleigh wrote:
 >>>>> On Mon, 3 Oct 2016 15:17:58 -0700, Justisaur <just...@gmail.com>
 >>>>> wrote:
 >>>>>
 >>>>>> Justisaur wrote:
 >>>>>>> Not that I can afford it, but another badly optimized console 
port (The
 >>>>>>> Crew) has me thinking I need a new CPU (so I'll need a new MB & 
Memory,
 >>>>>>> and possibly Power Supply.)
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> I'm currently running an E6850 Dual Core @ 3.0 GHz.  I'm 
looking over
 >>>>>>> the info for CPUs and I see the CPU recommended for GTA V (similar
 >>>>>>> issues) includes an intel i5-3470, AMD FX-8350.  From what I 
can see the
 >>>>>>> AMD costs close to half the price ($159 w $59 gift card vs. 230 
  and
 >>>>>>> provides about 25% more power.  Am I missing something?
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> I haven't considered a non-intel CPU in ages because the last 
one I got
 >>>>>>> was a POS and had tons of heat and compatibility issues, but 
AMD's been
 >>>>>>> around a long time, so they must be functioning I guess?
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Any reason I shouldn't buy one?
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Well, while looking them Up on new-egg I see I can buy a whole 
computer
 >>>>>>> with an i5-3470 with 8 GB ram for $271.., or oddly one with 4gb 
for $214
 >>>>>>> which is less than the CPU by itself. I doubt I could assemble 
something
 >>>>>>> like that for anywhere near that price, although I see an 
'upgrade kit'
 >>>>>>> for $294 for the AMD one with 8gb, but free HD loaded with windows,
 >>>>>>> case, PS etc is hard to argue with, especially if I can swap it 
out to
 >>>>>>> my case or give my son the old computer minus the Graphics card 
(still
 >>>>>>> have a 270 I can pop in it to make it useable for his lego 
games, though
 >>>>>>> I'd definately need a new PS if I did that, and that would 
probably cost
 >>>>>>> as much as the computer).
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> I did just get $200 for my b-day I could just about buy the full
 >>>>>>> computer for that.
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Or I could forget about buying a CPU to play badly ported 
console games
 >>>>>>> and just buy the game for about $12 on the XBOX 360.  That'd 
save me at
 >>>>>>> least $200.
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> It looks like all those cheap computers are HP Small Form Factor 
trash
 >>>>>> with proprietary case & motherboards that won't actually work for
 >>>>>> upgrades.
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> I found this one:
 >>>>>> 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA8XK4NF8252&cm_re=i7_8gb_refurbished_desktop-_-9SIA8XK4NF8252-_-Product
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> i7 2600 3.4Gz, with 8 GB ram, 1 TB HD, DVD player for $269. 
What I'm
 >>>>>> figuring is buyng that ripping all those parts out and tossing 
the case,
 >>>>>> Power-supply & motherboard.  Especially since the CPU itself 
would cost
 >>>>>> over $400 by itself, so all the rest just saves me money.  I'd 
need a
 >>>>>> new MB, looks like I can get one around $60.  I'd need to buy 
another
 >>>>>> case too if if I want my old computer for my son.
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Maybe I scanned your post too quickly I can't seem to fully wrap my
 >>>>> head around the approach you're taking here.  For a low-end CPU, just
 >>>>> picking up a i5-4690k would give you better results than the 2600 and
 >>>>> is only about $239.
 >>>>>
 >>>>> http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/287?vs=1261
 >>>>>
 >>>>> I wouldn't mess with some business class refurb just to harvest the
 >>>>> CPU.
 >>>>>
 >>>>
 >>>> CPU and Memory, Also the HD & DVD.  I don't NEED another HD or 
DVD, but
 >>>> it's more parts toward another computer for the son.
 >>>>
 >>>> According to passmark the i7-2600 is better, but I'm not sure, 
I've seen
 >>>> mentioned GTA & other console ports work better with more cores, 
which
 >>>> the 2600 has 2 +2 logical, vs. 4 cores.  I haven't been able to find
 >>>> comparisons for GTA specifically.
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> Not trying to force my opinion here or anything but the memory is
 >>> probably worth thirty bucks probably 1066 DDR3, a used HD 1TB worth
 >>> maybe $10 (a new one is $50) and a HD is the last component I would
 >>> ever want used or refurb, because of the moving parts, and you don't
 >>> know what sort of heat torture its been exposed to in a slim case.
 >>>
 >>
 >> Wow, I assumed the memory would be much more, it's been 8 years 
since I bought any... I see I can get 8 gb for $20 now going to 16 is 
quite the price jump to $85 though so probably not worth it, I also 
assumed the HD would be worth more too.  That does put a damper on the 
idea of harvesting those.
 >>
 >>> I used to have a slim profile machine refurb many years back, and
 >>> every time I put anything greater than a 5400rpm drive in it, the
 >>> drive would last about 8 months.  The system was originally designed
 >>> and tested with the spec parts, and adding anything of greater
 >>> performance added heat that the airflow of the case couldn't properly
 >>> handle.  Added heat tends tol reduce the life of a hard drive, which
 >>> have a limited average lifespan anyway.
 >>
 >> Yeah, we've got some at work, they're doing remarkably well, but 
then they mostly use web apps and I rarely see more than a couple GB 
used.   I know they wouldn't work out too well for a gaming computer, 
which is why I was planning on tossing the MB & Case.
 >>
 >>> I doubt you'd care about the passmark score as much as the other
 >>> benchmarks I posted with those two processors, but even if so redirect
 >>> attention from the i5-4xxx to the i7-4xxx, and you're into much better
 >>> passmark scores and the hyperthreading you want.
 >>
 >> I just did find some GTA V specific CPU benchmarks.
 >>
 >> 
http://pclab.pl/zdjecia/artykuly/chaostheory/2015/04/gtav/charts5/gtav_vhigh_cpu.png
 >>
 >> it looks like the AMDs are significantly slower, so that question 
answered.
 >>
 >>from that link, the ones I was looking at
 >>
 >> AMD FX-8350  - 37 fps min $100
 >> i7-2600k     - 57 fps min (base not oc) $400+ ($269 in the refurb)
 >> i5-4690k     - 63 fps min (base not oc) $239
 >>
 >> So your recommendation was the best.  I can get a i5-4690 and the 
memory for less than the refurb with a bit more peace of mind.
 >>
 >> As another option, looking at that chart the best not overclocked 
(not really into ocing have had enough heat issues in the past) is:
 >>
 >> i7-4790k     - 70 fps min $297
 >>
 >> I don't know I'd want to pay an extra $60 for 10% more performance 
especially at that high of frame rate.
 >
 > In games the difference will be somewhat negligible on most games, but
 > actually 10% in performance gain coming from the CPU versus the GPU is
 > significant these days, because faster GPUs (i.e. maybe not the one
 > you have today as much as the one you want in the future) experience a
 > bottlenecking effect on slower CPUs, so that extra $60 or so might buy
 > you a lot of future proofing, because a future GPU might hit a wall on
 > the i5 that it wouldn't hit on the i7.
 >
 > Also if you look at things line 7Zip and WinRAR performance on the i5
 > versus the i7 you can sometimes see 100% increases give or take,
 > making it a much better processor for non gaming use in addition to
 > lower power draw.
 >
 > It's usually a get what you pay for scenario with Intel, it just comes
 > down to whether you will use the stuff you pay for or not.  Given the
 > 10% in the games you want to play plus massive gains in many
 > multithreaded apps, I'd go for the extra $60 without blinking,
 > personally.
 >

After my attempt at a $9 fix, The Crew on the XBOX 360 failed as I 
couldn't find anyone in the PVP lobbies, and the game looked like crap. 
I was getting pretty grumpy all the time not being able to play this at 
all and wondering what else I can't play.

I ended up buying an i5-4690k that you originally recommended, a cheap 
MSI H81-MP33 MB and 8 gb ram which came to $344 after tax - actually 
through amazon after specing out through pricewatch this ended up $16 
cheaper (without even considering shipping which was free since my 
wife's a prime member).  I need a new DVD player as mine was IDE, which 
the new board doesn't have, but I've got a USB external one around 
somewhere if I need it, and no floppy hook up anymore.  I was able to 
use my Power supply, and was able to get windows reactivated, so that 
was my only cost.

The Crew was running capped at 60 fps, but I put some of the settings up 
to medium and it's around 35-45 most times (vs. 9-16 before).  I can see 
it's not the CPU now though as it's running around 60-70% (99% before). 
The Nvidia Experience put everything at ultra but that dropped the FPS 
into the 20's and I started to see impact on the racing again, so put it 
back to medium.  Looks beautiful, but the performance hit isn't 
acceptable in pvp.  I've been winning quite a bit more of the races now, 
maybe half! I can still see I'm bad at most crowns and not very good at 
street & dirt, but I'm better at perf & circuit than I thought.  I'm 
ranking about 3000 on the trials, some higher some lower, out of I think 
10k players on those.

Again I'm running a GTX 950 for the video card.

Thanks for the help! I should be good for some time with the computer.

I also want to let/remind people if you've got an old CPU quite a few of 
the newer/console port games are quite CPU intensive, and having just a 
good video card as I did isn't enough, which is the way it used to work.

- Justisaur

Am 03.10.16 um 22:39 schrieb Justisaur:
> Not that I can afford it, but another badly optimized console port (The
> Crew) has me thinking I need a new CPU (so I'll need a new MB & Memory,
> and possibly Power Supply.)
>
> I'm currently running an E6850 Dual Core @ 3.0 GHz.  I'm looking over
> the info for CPUs and I see the CPU recommended for GTA V (similar
> issues) includes an intel i5-3470, AMD FX-8350.  From what I can see the
> AMD costs close to half the price ($159 w $59 gift card vs. 230  and
> provides about 25% more power.  Am I missing something?
>
> I haven't considered a non-intel CPU in ages because the last one I got
> was a POS and had tons of heat and compatibility issues, but AMD's been
> around a long time, so they must be functioning I guess?
>
> Any reason I shouldn't buy one?
>
The current AMDs are not that good compared to the Intel offerings. More 
power consumption less speed. Compatibility never has been a real issue 
with AMD.
However AMDs new processor lineup will come early 2017 and according to 
rumors they finally have closed the gap to Intel. More news about their 
new processor architecture will follow at the January CES.