🚀 go-pugleaf

On 10/5/2016 11:14 AM, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
 > On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 10:22:51 -0700 (PDT), Justisaur
 > <just...@gmail.com> wrote:
 >
 >> On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 at 9:51:13 AM UTC-7, Rin Stowleigh wrote:
 >>> On Tue, 4 Oct 2016 09:10:41 -0700, Justisaur <just...@gmail.com>
 >>> wrote:
 >>>
 >>>> Rin Stowleigh wrote:
 >>>>> On Mon, 3 Oct 2016 15:17:58 -0700, Justisaur <just...@gmail.com>
 >>>>> wrote:
 >>>>>
 >>>>>> Justisaur wrote:
 >>>>>>> Not that I can afford it, but another badly optimized console 
port (The
 >>>>>>> Crew) has me thinking I need a new CPU (so I'll need a new MB & 
Memory,
 >>>>>>> and possibly Power Supply.)
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> I'm currently running an E6850 Dual Core @ 3.0 GHz.  I'm 
looking over
 >>>>>>> the info for CPUs and I see the CPU recommended for GTA V (similar
 >>>>>>> issues) includes an intel i5-3470, AMD FX-8350.  From what I 
can see the
 >>>>>>> AMD costs close to half the price ($159 w $59 gift card vs. 230 
  and
 >>>>>>> provides about 25% more power.  Am I missing something?
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> I haven't considered a non-intel CPU in ages because the last 
one I got
 >>>>>>> was a POS and had tons of heat and compatibility issues, but 
AMD's been
 >>>>>>> around a long time, so they must be functioning I guess?
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Any reason I shouldn't buy one?
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Well, while looking them Up on new-egg I see I can buy a whole 
computer
 >>>>>>> with an i5-3470 with 8 GB ram for $271.., or oddly one with 4gb 
for $214
 >>>>>>> which is less than the CPU by itself. I doubt I could assemble 
something
 >>>>>>> like that for anywhere near that price, although I see an 
'upgrade kit'
 >>>>>>> for $294 for the AMD one with 8gb, but free HD loaded with windows,
 >>>>>>> case, PS etc is hard to argue with, especially if I can swap it 
out to
 >>>>>>> my case or give my son the old computer minus the Graphics card 
(still
 >>>>>>> have a 270 I can pop in it to make it useable for his lego 
games, though
 >>>>>>> I'd definately need a new PS if I did that, and that would 
probably cost
 >>>>>>> as much as the computer).
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> I did just get $200 for my b-day I could just about buy the full
 >>>>>>> computer for that.
 >>>>>>>
 >>>>>>> Or I could forget about buying a CPU to play badly ported 
console games
 >>>>>>> and just buy the game for about $12 on the XBOX 360.  That'd 
save me at
 >>>>>>> least $200.
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> It looks like all those cheap computers are HP Small Form Factor 
trash
 >>>>>> with proprietary case & motherboards that won't actually work for
 >>>>>> upgrades.
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> I found this one:
 >>>>>> 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA8XK4NF8252&cm_re=i7_8gb_refurbished_desktop-_-9SIA8XK4NF8252-_-Product
 >>>>>>
 >>>>>> i7 2600 3.4Gz, with 8 GB ram, 1 TB HD, DVD player for $269. 
What I'm
 >>>>>> figuring is buyng that ripping all those parts out and tossing 
the case,
 >>>>>> Power-supply & motherboard.  Especially since the CPU itself 
would cost
 >>>>>> over $400 by itself, so all the rest just saves me money.  I'd 
need a
 >>>>>> new MB, looks like I can get one around $60.  I'd need to buy 
another
 >>>>>> case too if if I want my old computer for my son.
 >>>>>
 >>>>> Maybe I scanned your post too quickly I can't seem to fully wrap my
 >>>>> head around the approach you're taking here.  For a low-end CPU, just
 >>>>> picking up a i5-4690k would give you better results than the 2600 and
 >>>>> is only about $239.
 >>>>>
 >>>>> http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/287?vs=1261
 >>>>>
 >>>>> I wouldn't mess with some business class refurb just to harvest the
 >>>>> CPU.
 >>>>>
 >>>>
 >>>> CPU and Memory, Also the HD & DVD.  I don't NEED another HD or 
DVD, but
 >>>> it's more parts toward another computer for the son.
 >>>>
 >>>> According to passmark the i7-2600 is better, but I'm not sure, 
I've seen
 >>>> mentioned GTA & other console ports work better with more cores, 
which
 >>>> the 2600 has 2 +2 logical, vs. 4 cores.  I haven't been able to find
 >>>> comparisons for GTA specifically.
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> Not trying to force my opinion here or anything but the memory is
 >>> probably worth thirty bucks probably 1066 DDR3, a used HD 1TB worth
 >>> maybe $10 (a new one is $50) and a HD is the last component I would
 >>> ever want used or refurb, because of the moving parts, and you don't
 >>> know what sort of heat torture its been exposed to in a slim case.
 >>>
 >>
 >> Wow, I assumed the memory would be much more, it's been 8 years 
since I bought any... I see I can get 8 gb for $20 now going to 16 is 
quite the price jump to $85 though so probably not worth it, I also 
assumed the HD would be worth more too.  That does put a damper on the 
idea of harvesting those.
 >>
 >>> I used to have a slim profile machine refurb many years back, and
 >>> every time I put anything greater than a 5400rpm drive in it, the
 >>> drive would last about 8 months.  The system was originally designed
 >>> and tested with the spec parts, and adding anything of greater
 >>> performance added heat that the airflow of the case couldn't properly
 >>> handle.  Added heat tends tol reduce the life of a hard drive, which
 >>> have a limited average lifespan anyway.
 >>
 >> Yeah, we've got some at work, they're doing remarkably well, but 
then they mostly use web apps and I rarely see more than a couple GB 
used.   I know they wouldn't work out too well for a gaming computer, 
which is why I was planning on tossing the MB & Case.
 >>
 >>> I doubt you'd care about the passmark score as much as the other
 >>> benchmarks I posted with those two processors, but even if so redirect
 >>> attention from the i5-4xxx to the i7-4xxx, and you're into much better
 >>> passmark scores and the hyperthreading you want.
 >>
 >> I just did find some GTA V specific CPU benchmarks.
 >>
 >> 
http://pclab.pl/zdjecia/artykuly/chaostheory/2015/04/gtav/charts5/gtav_vhigh_cpu.png
 >>
 >> it looks like the AMDs are significantly slower, so that question 
answered.
 >>
 >>from that link, the ones I was looking at
 >>
 >> AMD FX-8350  - 37 fps min $100
 >> i7-2600k     - 57 fps min (base not oc) $400+ ($269 in the refurb)
 >> i5-4690k     - 63 fps min (base not oc) $239
 >>
 >> So your recommendation was the best.  I can get a i5-4690 and the 
memory for less than the refurb with a bit more peace of mind.
 >>
 >> As another option, looking at that chart the best not overclocked 
(not really into ocing have had enough heat issues in the past) is:
 >>
 >> i7-4790k     - 70 fps min $297
 >>
 >> I don't know I'd want to pay an extra $60 for 10% more performance 
especially at that high of frame rate.
 >
 > In games the difference will be somewhat negligible on most games, but
 > actually 10% in performance gain coming from the CPU versus the GPU is
 > significant these days, because faster GPUs (i.e. maybe not the one
 > you have today as much as the one you want in the future) experience a
 > bottlenecking effect on slower CPUs, so that extra $60 or so might buy
 > you a lot of future proofing, because a future GPU might hit a wall on
 > the i5 that it wouldn't hit on the i7.
 >
 > Also if you look at things line 7Zip and WinRAR performance on the i5
 > versus the i7 you can sometimes see 100% increases give or take,
 > making it a much better processor for non gaming use in addition to
 > lower power draw.
 >
 > It's usually a get what you pay for scenario with Intel, it just comes
 > down to whether you will use the stuff you pay for or not.  Given the
 > 10% in the games you want to play plus massive gains in many
 > multithreaded apps, I'd go for the extra $60 without blinking,
 > personally.
 >

After my attempt at a $9 fix, The Crew on the XBOX 360 failed as I 
couldn't find anyone in the PVP lobbies, and the game looked like crap. 
I was getting pretty grumpy all the time not being able to play this at 
all and wondering what else I can't play.

I ended up buying an i5-4690k that you originally recommended, a cheap 
MSI H81-MP33 MB and 8 gb ram which came to $344 after tax - actually 
through amazon after specing out through pricewatch this ended up $16 
cheaper (without even considering shipping which was free since my 
wife's a prime member).  I need a new DVD player as mine was IDE, which 
the new board doesn't have, but I've got a USB external one around 
somewhere if I need it, and no floppy hook up anymore.  I was able to 
use my Power supply, and was able to get windows reactivated, so that 
was my only cost.

The Crew was running capped at 60 fps, but I put some of the settings up 
to medium and it's around 35-45 most times (vs. 9-16 before).  I can see 
it's not the CPU now though as it's running around 60-70% (99% before). 
The Nvidia Experience put everything at ultra but that dropped the FPS 
into the 20's and I started to see impact on the racing again, so put it 
back to medium.  Looks beautiful, but the performance hit isn't 
acceptable in pvp.  I've been winning quite a bit more of the races now, 
maybe half! I can still see I'm bad at most crowns and not very good at 
street & dirt, but I'm better at perf & circuit than I thought.  I'm 
ranking about 3000 on the trials, some higher some lower, out of I think 
10k players on those.

Again I'm running a GTX 950 for the video card.

Thanks for the help! I should be good for some time with the computer.

I also want to let/remind people if you've got an old CPU quite a few of 
the newer/console port games are quite CPU intensive, and having just a 
good video card as I did isn't enough, which is the way it used to work.

- Justisaur