🚀 go-pugleaf

§ï×darts wrote:
> Kind of a long lay off on UT99 due to lack of time... lack of populated
> servers... lack of will to bug my old friends to come out and play.  I'm
> SoOutOfPractice that it isn't funny.  I was never much good anyway.  But,
> now I remember why I played.  There just isn't another game that feels like
> UT.  It's way too much fun.
>
> So, old friends... dust off that copy of UT and come on out and play.  I've
> been spending a lot of time here:  [PURE] «®ôt»Fû££MêTå£JäçKêT Combat
> Arena\72.51.60.94\7778 playing some nice DM.  My ping sucks there, but the
> "regulars" seem like a decent sort... and even if my ping was worth a shit,
> I'd still never finish a game in the top 5 anyway <grin>.
>
> Cheers!  Happy fragging!

Hiya Six,

I know what you mean, been thinking about re-installing 99. Maybe I'll
be able to join ya in the near future. Best

-- 
{AGUT} DeadMan
loyalty above all, save honor
<http://69.127.16.11:7776/index.html>

"{AGUT} DeadMan" <oldman1961@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:Kpmdnd77W9_XOdbVnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> §ď×darts wrote:
>> Kind of a long lay off on UT99 due to lack of time... lack of populated
>> servers... lack of will to bug my old friends to come out and play.  I'm
>> SoOutOfPractice that it isn't funny.  I was never much good anyway.  But,
>> now I remember why I played.  There just isn't another game that feels 
>> like
>> UT.  It's way too much fun.
>>
>> So, old friends... dust off that copy of UT and come on out and play. 
>> I've
>> been spending a lot of time here:  [PURE] ŤŽôtťFűŁŁMęTĺŁJäçKęT Combat
>> Arena\72.51.60.94\7778 playing some nice DM.  My ping sucks there, but 
>> the
>> "regulars" seem like a decent sort... and even if my ping was worth a 
>> shit,
>> I'd still never finish a game in the top 5 anyway <grin>.
>>
>> Cheers!  Happy fragging!
>
> Hiya Six,
>
> I know what you mean, been thinking about re-installing 99. Maybe I'll
> be able to join ya in the near future. Best
>
> -- 
> {AGUT} DeadMan
> loyalty above all, save honor
> <http://69.127.16.11:7776/index.html>

Hope you guys are doing fine! If you ever want to get together on 2K4, let 
me know and I'll punt the RPG whores out of my server and run a nice 
semi-vanilla fragfest Sunday. I tried running a 99 server for a bit, but 
damn there are a lot of botters now. I guess anti-cheat didn't really keep 
up. It was disheartening so i stopped. If you guys are interested I could 
load up a west coast\central US AGUT 99 server, but I'd need some help 
running it. I have a dedicated server I'm not currently using. Oh, and if 
you have any extra Spring weather, fax it over. It's stayed rainy and cool 
way late this year and I'd very much like to see some sunshine! 

On  9-Jun-2008, "goPostal" <agutgopostal@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I tried running a 99 server for a bit, but
> damn there are a lot of botters now. I guess anti-cheat didn't really keep
>
> up. It was disheartening so i stopped


I discovered something funny a while back when I had my server up.  this is
going to sound a little nuts, but it seems to be true.

For UT99, the best cheat protection is no cheat protection.  The botters all
have bots loaded up that depend on PURE and etc being loaded on the server.
The cheaters get surprised when they join a server with no anti-cheat
measures and discover their bot doesn't work.  -  They could track down one
of the ancient bots from before PURE, but then they would have to unload
their current cheat and load something else just to play one server.

One of my network admin pals tells me that it might be possible to actually
rotate servers without disconnecting clients between games.  He suggested a
server with PURE and one without and cycling the servers with a script from
UT... when a game ends, a script could trigger a programmable router into a
load balance scenario that ran dynamic ip tables to move the clients to a
different server without them being aware of the change.  It might have been
an interesting experiment but there just aren't enough players anymore.

I've been playing a couple of hours a day lately.  I don't think I've seen
anything I would think was a bot.  Sometimes I feel like others can inflict
much more damage than I can... but then I look at my 90+ ping and compare to
to their 40- ping and realize that they really can inflict more damage than
I can <g>  I also think a bit about my aging reflexes <wg>

"§ď×darts" <sixdartsREMOVE@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:QcSdnZXfq7wFptPVnZ2dnUVZ_g6dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> On  9-Jun-2008, "goPostal" <agutgopostal@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I tried running a 99 server for a bit, but
>> damn there are a lot of botters now. I guess anti-cheat didn't really 
>> keep
>>
>> up. It was disheartening so i stopped
>
>
> I discovered something funny a while back when I had my server up.  this 
> is
> going to sound a little nuts, but it seems to be true.
>
> For UT99, the best cheat protection is no cheat protection.  The botters 
> all
> have bots loaded up that depend on PURE and etc being loaded on the 
> server.
> The cheaters get surprised when they join a server with no anti-cheat
> measures and discover their bot doesn't work.  -  They could track down 
> one
> of the ancient bots from before PURE, but then they would have to unload
> their current cheat and load something else just to play one server.
>
> One of my network admin pals tells me that it might be possible to 
> actually
> rotate servers without disconnecting clients between games.  He suggested 
> a
> server with PURE and one without and cycling the servers with a script 
> from
> UT... when a game ends, a script could trigger a programmable router into 
> a
> load balance scenario that ran dynamic ip tables to move the clients to a
> different server without them being aware of the change.  It might have 
> been
> an interesting experiment but there just aren't enough players anymore.
>
> I've been playing a couple of hours a day lately.  I don't think I've seen
> anything I would think was a bot.  Sometimes I feel like others can 
> inflict
> much more damage than I can... but then I look at my 90+ ping and compare 
> to
> to their 40- ping and realize that they really can inflict more damage 
> than
> I can <g>  I also think a bit about my aging reflexes <wg>

It would be a pretty easy matter to script a mod that loads configurable 
game mods on a rotating basis. If you want I can look at making a batch file 
that loads a randomizer to decide the current server setup. Tell you the 
truth, I use screenshot sender and a version of anti-tcc on my 2004 server 
and it runs a pretty tight ship. The "outside of install folder" bots are 
generally picked up by the screenshots and the inside bots have real trouble 
getting around the folder scans.

I am curious if you guys would like to test run a 99 server. Are there 
enough players anymore to warrant it? I'd do the setup but day-to-day would 
fall to three or four people here (or trusted others you might know). I've 
just got my hands full with my rpg server or id do it full time. 

On 13-Jun-2008, "goPostal" <agutgopostal@hotmail.com> wrote:

> If you want I can look at making a batch file
> that loads a randomizer to decide the current server setup.

Yes.  If you've got the time to put together something like that, I'd love
to use it.  It sounds like you've learned a lot about running UT servers.  -
Heck.  i can't even remember most of the console commands.  If you have the
time and patience, I'd be interested in gaining some of your knowledge.

> I am curious if you guys would like to test run a 99 server

I'm uploading my redirects right this minute.  It's been a while since I
tried to take operating a game server seriously, but I think I'll put up a
DM server for a little while and see how it goes.

> Are there
> enough players anymore to warrant it?

That's a good question.  I played for a couple of hours tonight and there
were a couple of hundred DM players online at about 8:30 p.m. Mountain. 
Most of the time, though, I only see somewhere between 60 and 100 DM
players, and most of those are camping on low grav sniper servers with
bizarre mods.  I just can't seem to get into that sort of gameplay.

I'm not real sure how it will go.  I have enough bandwidth to host a 12 to
14 player server, but I also have a binary habit that means I might need a
little overhead for my ten constant connections to giga.  I have three
internet connections available to me right now.  I have two 8 meg by 384 k
connections and a 15 meg by 1 meg connection.  The 15 by 1 is (of course)
the most used, but happens to be the one that could handle a nice bunch of
players.  Sometime in the next couple of weeks, I'm also going to have a 1.5
by 512, but it won't be on my local network.  I could host a server on it,
but it would have to be 100% remotely administered.  If I remember right, it
seems like 512 was perfect for 6 players, but afforded reasonable play to
about 8.

If there is any interest at all, I'll probably run a pair of servers.  Some
of the guys I hang out with were serious Matrix Moves CTF players. Three of
them were top-10 on the NG world stats for mods players for a couple of
years striaght.  I've hosted some interesting DM maps that fit Matrix Moves
pretty well and had some of those guys out playing again every now and then.
 Personally, I prefer just plain old DM.  I can do without most of the mods
I've seen and I'm not a very good team player.

A little off the topic:  My maps, textures, sounds, etc from my old server
installation is about a gig and a half.  I learned tonight that UZ is
actually ralativly efficient with multicore.  It kept all four of my cores
around 65% or so while it crunched all that stuff.  The last time I
compressed all that junk was with an AMD XP-1800 and it took what seemed
like *forever*.  This went impressively quickly.

"§ď×darts" <sixdartsREMOVE@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:H_GdnWAupsLrDM7VnZ2dnUVZ_o_inZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> On 13-Jun-2008, "goPostal" <agutgopostal@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If you want I can look at making a batch file
>> that loads a randomizer to decide the current server setup.
>
> Yes.  If you've got the time to put together something like that, I'd love
> to use it.  It sounds like you've learned a lot about running UT 
> ervers.  -
> Heck.  i can't even remember most of the console commands.  If you have 
> the
> time and patience, I'd be interested in gaining some of your knowledge.
>


Most everything I know is 2004 based, but most of the knowledge is universal 
with unreal. Server admin and upkeep is greatly similar. If you want, add me 
to your msn. Hit me up anytime for anything, it never bothers me. I've been 
pretty deep into UT2004 for the past year. I started tweaking an rpg mod 
which forced me to learn uscript which led to starting an rpg server and 
here lately I've been mapping and coding additions to my mods I'm running. 
If I don't know the answer to something I can guarantee you I have someone 
on my buddy list that can.


>> I am curious if you guys would like to test run a 99 server
>
> I'm uploading my redirects right this minute.  It's been a while since I
> tried to take operating a game server seriously, but I think I'll put up a
> DM server for a little while and see how it goes.
>
>> Are there
>> enough players anymore to warrant it?
>
> That's a good question.  I played for a couple of hours tonight and there
> were a couple of hundred DM players online at about 8:30 p.m. Mountain.
> Most of the time, though, I only see somewhere between 60 and 100 DM
> players, and most of those are camping on low grav sniper servers with
> bizarre mods.  I just can't seem to get into that sort of gameplay.
>
> I'm not real sure how it will go.  I have enough bandwidth to host a 12 to
> 14 player server, but I also have a binary habit that means I might need a
> little overhead for my ten constant connections to giga.  I have three
> internet connections available to me right now.  I have two 8 meg by 384 k
> connections and a 15 meg by 1 meg connection.  The 15 by 1 is (of course)
> the most used, but happens to be the one that could handle a nice bunch of
> players.  Sometime in the next couple of weeks, I'm also going to have a 
> 1.5
> by 512, but it won't be on my local network.  I could host a server on it,
> but it would have to be 100% remotely administered.  If I remember right, 
> it
> seems like 512 was perfect for 6 players, but afforded reasonable play to
> about 8.
>
> If there is any interest at all, I'll probably run a pair of servers. 
> Some
> of the guys I hang out with were serious Matrix Moves CTF players. Three 
> of
> them were top-10 on the NG world stats for mods players for a couple of
> years striaght.  I've hosted some interesting DM maps that fit Matrix 
> Moves
> pretty well and had some of those guys out playing again every now and 
> then.
> Personally, I prefer just plain old DM.  I can do without most of the mods
> I've seen and I'm not a very good team player.
>

I have a dormant GameServers account that I could light up if you want. They 
have servers from Germany to west coast US. My rpg server is in NY and I get 
a ping around 100. Only reason I don't use an L.A. based IP is I have a 
bunch of EU players and I don't want to give them 150 ping. For us I would 
think a ping in the mid 40's to mid 50's is what we would end up with. If we 
go dedicated it makes admin so much easier. I also have a private redirect 
service that bursts at a monster speed. I have a metric shitload of monster 
mods for invasion but you wont wait more than a couple moments to download 
and play. It would be simple to use that.

> A little off the topic:  My maps, textures, sounds, etc from my old server
> installation is about a gig and a half.  I learned tonight that UZ is
> actually ralativly efficient with multicore.  It kept all four of my cores
> around 65% or so while it crunched all that stuff.  The last time I
> compressed all that junk was with an AMD XP-1800 and it took what seemed
> like *forever*.  This went impressively quickly.

Oh, and I looked at creating a server batch file that does a random mod 
switch. It's easy enough to do it but the problem is that during the 
"handoff" between server setup "A" and server setup "B" I can't get past a 
player disconnect. I didn't realize this but when you switch mods, the 
engine actually comes very close to restarting itself to get ready for the 
next setup. I don't think this tack will work, but I'm wondering if I can 
make an ingame mod that randomizes certain things to fit this bill. I know 
utvote will allow you to vote mods in and out between maps so it shouldn't 
be too tough to pinch some script from it and apply this to a "scripted 
sequence" of rotating anti-cheats. This is probably overkill, but dammit I 
love to get elbow deep into something and try to figure it out.

Sorry it took a couple of days to get back to you. The weather has been 
stunning (finally) and I spent my weekend surfing and bumming. I'm back in 
the groove now though (and man I feel better). Oh my msn is 
agutgopostalAThotmailDOTcom.

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:55:40 -0700, "goPostal"
<agutgopostal@hotmail.com> wrote:


> I have a metric shitload...

How much is that in pounds.

<damn metric elitists... US isn't good enough?>

"Folk" <Folk@folk.com> wrote in message 
news:b2sf545rmcgfqjehdeuhe9ne00pgi2a8rn@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:55:40 -0700, "goPostal"
> <agutgopostal@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> I have a metric shitload...
>
> How much is that in pounds.
>
> <damn metric elitists... US isn't good enough?>

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=metric+shitload

My favorite~

Metric shitload :
 Related to the Metric Fuckton, Which is greater than a Metric Megaton, but 
not as great as a Metric MegaFuckton. Ultimately all of these terms apply to 
a lot of unwanted or unliked things or events.

Example:
"Ok, I've got a Metric Fuckton of Rice Krispies at home, why are you picking 
up that box?" 

§ï×darts wrote:
>> I tried running a 99 server for a bit, but
>> damn there are a lot of botters now. I guess anti-cheat didn't really keep

UTDC 2.0c pretty much stops most things. I only know of one aimbotter 
who's got past that. When we installed it we caught a lot of players who 
are now quite effectively excluded.

> For UT99, the best cheat protection is no cheat protection.  The botters all
> have bots loaded up that depend on PURE and etc being loaded on the server.

Sadly, that's no longer true. There was a time when it was - when CSHP 
and Pure were being deliberately targetting, but their days as useful 
anticheat are long gone.

> One of my network admin pals tells me that it might be possible to actually
> rotate servers without disconnecting clients between games.  He suggested a
> server with PURE and one without and cycling the servers with a script from
> UT... when a game ends, a script could trigger a programmable router into a
> load balance scenario that ran dynamic ip tables to move the clients to a
> different server without them being aware of the change.  It might have been
> an interesting experiment but there just aren't enough players anymore.

There's still quite a few players if you look. The upsurge we had when 
UT3 came out was noticable on ut99, and when Steam started selling UT99 
for about six dollars we saw another surge. We generally get 70-100 
players a night on the multiplay ut99 servers. We peaked a few months 
ago at 130 or so. I still play every day and find good clean games.

Ut99 ain't dead yet!

On 24-Jul-2008, Flash <NOSPAM@digdilem.org> wrote:

> when CSHP
> and Pure were being deliberately targetting, but their days as useful
> anticheat are long gone.

Sort of leads me to a question and I see flashys aimbot page is still live,
so maybe you're the one to ask.

Some of the servers I play get a small handful of players whose ping never
changes from 75.  It is always 75 exactly.  Now and again, someone will
start ripping on the 75 pingers saying that all of the 75 pingers are using
"a hack".  I've never seen anyone say they are using a bot, or radar, or any
other sort of cheat... they always describe it (in game chat) as "a hack". -
OK.  So, is there any validity to a hack or cheat of some sort existing that
will make the server beleive that the players ping is exactly 75?  -  I've
spec'd a couple of times and I can't spot any advantage those particular
players seem to have.  In fact, more than a couple of them are just as
crappy of players as I am and some even worse <grin>.

I only found one that I had to wonder about.  I've played him and spec'd him
more than a few times.  He moves through every map as good or better than
anyone I've ever seen, so I thought for a long time that he is simply a very
good player.  I have to pick up every single set of enforcer/minigun bullets
and keep him out of minigun ammo or I can't even stay within 15 frags of him
in a 30 frag deathmatch.  He's amazing with the minigun.  It doesn't matter
strafe squat jump flip whatever, I can't live through more than a dozen of
his rounds being fired.  But, something odd happened the other day that made
think a capitolized bolded *"WTF?!"*.  I got distracted by something going
on in my house for a moment and my fingers came off the keys.  He fired 40
rounds at me while I wasn't moving and missed all but maybe two.  He had to
get right up to me to kill me with the minigun when I wasn't moving.  Every
time I saw him in the next three games, I just stopped and he couldn't hit
me for at least 20 rounds without charging right at me.  -  This sort of
thing I can usually blame on lag, but his ping is an exact 75 and mine runs
from 68 to 80 on that server.  That's not a bad average to create *that*
much lag.  -  So, is there any truth to the always exactly 75 ping = some
sort of hack/cheat?


> We generally get 70-100
> players a night on the multiplay ut99 servers.

I just finished a couple of games.  A couple of those servers played
surprisingly well at my 175+ ping.  They didn't feel laggy at all and I
think I actually had a little advantage against a couple of the 35 ping
players who could only seem to hit me with rockets or flak.  I've never
played those servers before because someone at some time led me to beleive
that UTDC could be used maliciously.  I've never played any server running
it.  But, if Flash says it's OK, then it's OK with me <wink>.

Cheers!

"§ď×darts" <sixdartsREMOVE@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:yoCdndsBLJKOugnVnZ2dnUVZ_sjinZ2d@giganews.com...
> Some of the servers I play get a small handful of players whose ping never
> changes from 75.  It is always 75 exactly.  Now and again, someone will
> start ripping on the 75 pingers saying that all of the 75 pingers are 
> using
> "a hack".  I've never seen anyone say they are using a bot, or radar, or 
> any
> other sort of cheat... they always describe it (in game chat) as "a 
> hack". -
> OK.  So, is there any validity to a hack or cheat of some sort existing 
> that
> will make the server beleive that the players ping is exactly 75?  -  I've
> spec'd a couple of times and I can't spot any advantage those particular
> players seem to have.  In fact, more than a couple of them are just as
> crappy of players as I am and some even worse <grin>.
>
> I only found one that I had to wonder about.  I've played him and spec'd 
> him
> more than a few times.  He moves through every map as good or better than
> anyone I've ever seen, so I thought for a long time that he is simply a 
> very
> good player.  I have to pick up every single set of enforcer/minigun 
> bullets
> and keep him out of minigun ammo or I can't even stay within 15 frags of 
> him
> in a 30 frag deathmatch.  He's amazing with the minigun.  It doesn't 
> matter
> strafe squat jump flip whatever, I can't live through more than a dozen of
> his rounds being fired.  But, something odd happened the other day that 
> made
> think a capitolized bolded *"WTF?!"*.  I got distracted by something going
> on in my house for a moment and my fingers came off the keys.  He fired 40
> rounds at me while I wasn't moving and missed all but maybe two.  He had 
> to
> get right up to me to kill me with the minigun when I wasn't moving. 
> Every
> time I saw him in the next three games, I just stopped and he couldn't hit
> me for at least 20 rounds without charging right at me.  -  This sort of
> thing I can usually blame on lag, but his ping is an exact 75 and mine 
> runs
> from 68 to 80 on that server.  That's not a bad average to create *that*
> much lag.  -  So, is there any truth to the always exactly 75 ping = some
> sort of hack/cheat?
>

I can't really add anything solid except observation, but it seems that he's 
missing you because whatever program is introducing the ping compensation 
(lag or not) is also calculating movement delta on you and adjusting the 
fire point in reference to that. I'd guess that's why he can't hit you when 
you stop moving. It takes a moment for the induced ping movement delta 
adjustment to adjust downward to zero. I'd be intereseted to see if he could 
hit you at all if you made it a point to stutter step, and stop every few 
feet for a second. If he can't, it's for sure a bot of some kind.

There are ways for the client to artificially alter their ping to/from the 
server. It's tied to player replication info most times, and a good server 
admin should be able to see the inducement in the logs. If your admin wants 
me to show them what to look for, tell them to give me a yell. This sort of 
thing is what a bunch of the server crashers use to bring a server down to 
reset. They can flood the server with requests and lag out the game so much 
the engine eventually crashes. If you carefully limit this you can induce 
the appearance of lag on yourself only (as a player cheating), but still 
maintain a good low-ping connection because enough low-ping packets get 
through versus the high ping ones. Your listed ping is simply an average, 
not at all a constant, and varies greatly from game millisecond to game 
millisecond depending on what is being transmitted. This also has the side 
benefit of making you incredibly hard to hit because you are switching 
positions every microsecond on the playground depending on the ping of the 
second. I don't understand this as well as I would like to but I get the 
general idea of how/why it works. I have a couple of bots that do this 
archived so I might decompile them and look "under the hood". I'll know a 
lot more then. I just never had to get too deep into it. AntiTCC see 
anything like that on my server and they get immediately and irrevocably 
UTAN banned. Just a month or so ago a buddy of mine had a crasher that did 
so much damage crashing the server over and over, it corrupted his core 
files and he spent a whole day doing a total reinstall. Of course this is 
UT2004, but many of the engine constants are very similar.

I am baffled by the 75 ping constant. My guess is that it's untrue and some 
way has been found to spoof actual ping so that you can't see what he's 
really doing, which is causing his true ping to take on a waveform property. 
A good admin should be able to piece together what's going on by comparing 
logs of "normal' players and what the server reports when one of the "75ers" 
is playing.

Sorry if this is duped, I thought I'd replied already but can't see it.

§ï×darts wrote:
> Some of the servers I play get a small handful of players whose ping never
> changes from 75.  It is always 75 exactly.  Now and again, someone will
> start ripping on the 75 pingers saying that all of the 75 pingers are using
> "a hack".  I've never seen anyone say they are using a bot, or radar, or any
> other sort of cheat... they always describe it (in game chat) as "a hack". -
> OK.  So, is there any validity to a hack or cheat of some sort existing that
> will make the server beleive that the players ping is exactly 75?  -  I've
> spec'd a couple of times and I can't spot any advantage those particular
> players seem to have.  In fact, more than a couple of them are just as
> crappy of players as I am and some even worse <grin>.

I honestly don't know the answer to that. There is a mod for 2k4 that 
makes the bots have a ping, and chat and behave "almost" like human 
players, but generally people figure them out soon enough. Dunno if 
there's something like that for ut99, or whether there's some other 
reason. Even if they were on a lan you'd expect the ping to move around 
a bit. Might be another serverside mod that's somehow changing how pings 
are displayed. <shrug>

> I only found one that I had to wonder about.  I've played him and spec'd him
> more than a few times.  He moves through every map as good or better than
> anyone I've ever seen, so I thought for a long time that he is simply a very
> good player.  I have to pick up every single set of enforcer/minigun bullets
> and keep him out of minigun ammo or I can't even stay within 15 frags of him
> in a 30 frag deathmatch.  He's amazing with the minigun.  It doesn't matter
> strafe squat jump flip whatever, I can't live through more than a dozen of
> his rounds being fired.  But, something odd happened the other day that made
> think a capitolized bolded *"WTF?!"*.  I got distracted by something going
> on in my house for a moment and my fingers came off the keys.  He fired 40
> rounds at me while I wasn't moving and missed all but maybe two.  He had to
> get right up to me to kill me with the minigun when I wasn't moving.  Every
> time I saw him in the next three games, I just stopped and he couldn't hit
> me for at least 20 rounds without charging right at me.  -  This sort of
> thing I can usually blame on lag, but his ping is an exact 75 and mine runs
> from 68 to 80 on that server.  That's not a bad average to create *that*
> much lag.  -  So, is there any truth to the always exactly 75 ping = some
> sort of hack/cheat?

Again, don't know, maybe a playing style? I wouldn't think an aimbot 
would have problems tracking a stationary target, but sometimes a human 
might - I know I had problems shooting some bunnies who run and jump in 
straight lines, /too/ predictable iykwim.

All I can say is I don't know of a cheat that would explain the two 
things you describe, sorry.

> I just finished a couple of games.  A couple of those servers played
> surprisingly well at my 175+ ping.  They didn't feel laggy at all and I
> think I actually had a little advantage against a couple of the 35 ping
> players who could only seem to hit me with rockets or flak.  I've never
> played those servers before because someone at some time led me to beleive
> that UTDC could be used maliciously.  I've never played any server running
> it.  But, if Flash says it's OK, then it's OK with me <wink>.

Heh, thanks.

I don't like having to use UTDC, but just isn't an alternative. We 
caught a lot of botters when we turned it on and even though we took a 
large hit in total number of players it's almost eliminated the 
aimbotters we had. We've binned 30 or 40 unique ut99 aimbotters since 
then, and only one that I know of has returned with a bot that beats it, 
and I can keep him off with other tools. No other anticheat has come 
close for a couple of years or so, and by the stealth nature of cheats 
any anticheat has to adopt similar techniques to root them out. Any 
other way would be like the police trying to catch a murderer by simply 
asking everyone they meet "Did you do it?"

As an admin, the only "underhand" thing I can do with utdc is to take a 
picture of your UT portal. That means I can get a screenshot from what 
you see in UT as you see it, and this shows up radar, on-screen timers, 
brightskins, aimbot HUD's etc. UTDC takes one automatically when it 
boots somebody, or an admin can force one manually and it's pretty 
reliable and gives incontrovertable evidence beyond a long string of 
numbers that UTDC tells us is a hook. Actually seeing a radically 
changed HUD with radar blips, health of opponents and usually a big 
advert telling you exactly what bot it is, is a really big help. We 
don't publicise these screenshots since we think it might actually 
encourage people to try these cheats and get themselves banned for life, 
but if somebody claims innocence beyond the normal UTDC logs, it's good 
to have another card in the hand to prove to the world that they really 
are gaining an unfair advantage.

Note: The only screenshots we get are *only* of the UT window, we can't 
see anything else like your desktop, other windows, other monitors etc - 
ONLY the ut99 viewport. UTDC doesn't even report the names of other 
running processes unless it finds a hook in one of them. We don't get to 
see your porn secrets :)

If anyone's that interested, UTDC's source code has been released now 
over at unrealadmin.org so you can see exactly what it can and can't do.

"Flash" <NOSPAM@digdilem.org> wrote in message 
news:EPOdnQgsq7yzbAfVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...

> As an admin, the only "underhand" thing I can do with utdc is to take a 
> picture of your UT portal. That means I can get a screenshot from what you 
> see in UT as you see it, and this shows up radar, on-screen timers, 
> brightskins, aimbot HUD's etc. UTDC takes one automatically when it boots 
> somebody, or an admin can force one manually and it's pretty reliable and 
> gives incontrovertable evidence beyond a long string of numbers that UTDC 
> tells us is a hook. Actually seeing a radically changed HUD with radar 
> blips, health of opponents and usually a big advert telling you exactly 
> what bot it is, is a really big help. We don't publicise these screenshots 
> since we think it might actually encourage people to try these cheats and 
> get themselves banned for life, but if somebody claims innocence beyond 
> the normal UTDC logs, it's good to have another card in the hand to prove 
> to the world that they really are gaining an unfair advantage.
>
> Note: The only screenshots we get are *only* of the UT window, we can't 
> see anything else like your desktop, other windows, other monitors etc - 
> ONLY the ut99 viewport. UTDC doesn't even report the names of other 
> running processes unless it finds a hook in one of them. We don't get to 
> see your porn secrets :)
>

But it can if you want it to. UTDC can conceivably look outside and into the 
computer. That was my main problem with UTDC, it goes too far. Thankfully it 
crashes out if you try to examine too many packages outside of the UT 
folder, as the UT engine can't handle the handshake load.


> If anyone's that interested, UTDC's source code has been released now over 
> at unrealadmin.org so you can see exactly what it can and can't do.]

Flash I used ScreenshotSender on my UT2004 server for a while and I started 
getting tired of fighting people over totally aimbot screenshots. Deny, 
deny, deny was the standard. I got pissed about it and contacted Gugi, who 
coded the sender. He blessed my little idea so I created a nice little box 
map with the cheaters screenshots plastered all over the walls. I figured it 
would either get my server bombed with crashers or highlight what you SHOULD 
NOT DO. Mind you, each of the botters highlighted on the map was given a 
chance by me personally to remove the bot before playing on my server and 
chose to ignore me.

I'm happy to report that it worked wonderfully. Even better it was 
well-received among the players and a couple of busted players came forward 
and apologized. Now another server uses it to remind their players too, and 
it was received well there too. My personal opinion is that for too long the 
cheat community has operated in the dark, with normal people only partially 
understanding what aimbots/radars/hacks can do. Anyone that admins my 
servers get a package of the latest aimbots with instructions on install, 
usage, then removal. I WANT them to see what they do so it's much easier to 
spot. Shines a light on them and to a man my admins go "OMG! I never knew!"

You can get the map here if you'd like to see it, or I can post a few 
screenshots:
http://agutgopostal.com/invfiles/
Get DM-theHallofShame

You are welcome to use the map any way you'd like. Add, delete, change, 
alter....anything you want. I can easily convert this to a nice Clan map too 
with the cheat shots replaced with clanmembers pictures (which is actually 
what I started it out to be). 

snip>
> You can get the map here if you'd like to see it, or I can post a few 
> screenshots:
> http://agutgopostal.com/invfiles/
> Get DM-theHallofShame
> 

Downloaded and copied into Maps folder. Is there something i have to do?
Because this map isnt in Maplist anywhere...

tia

duffguy

duffguy schrieb:
> snip>
>> You can get the map here if you'd like to see it, or I can post a few 
>> screenshots:
>> http://agutgopostal.com/invfiles/
>> Get DM-theHallofShame
>>
> 
> Downloaded and copied into Maps folder. Is there something i have to do?
> Because this map isnt in Maplist anywhere...
> 
> tia
> 
> duffguy

Have the same problem. Probably I'm just to stupid, not much experience 
with 2k4.

greetz

Thargor

"Thargor" <unimon@gmx.com> wrote in message news:g7pnjg$qq5$1@online.de...
> duffguy schrieb:
>> snip>
>>> You can get the map here if you'd like to see it, or I can post a few 
>>> screenshots:
>>> http://agutgopostal.com/invfiles/
>>> Get DM-theHallofShame
>>>
>>
>> Downloaded and copied into Maps folder. Is there something i have to do?
>> Because this map isnt in Maplist anywhere...
>>
>> tia
>>
>> duffguy
>
> Have the same problem. Probably I'm just to stupid, not much experience 
> with 2k4.
>
> greetz
>
> Thargor
>

Guys I am sorry you are having troubles. I have a totally vanilla install 
and dropped the downloaded map into it and it immediately showed up at the 
end of the maplist. It has a lower case t to begin the map so it will go to 
the end. If you look into the invasion maps folder: 
http://agutgopostal.com/invasionmaps/  there is an update with another 
botter caught (v2).
I'm at a loss as to why it won't show in your offline game. If you drop the 
map onto desktop and the file directly, does it open your game up and start 
the map? I have had multiple people use this map with no problem but if both 
of you have issues, then there is something I need to fix. Please let me 
know if you have sorted it out, or if you still cannot get it to show. 
Thanks!! 

snip>>
> 
> Guys I am sorry you are having troubles. I have a totally vanilla install 
> and dropped the downloaded map into it and it immediately showed up at the 
> end of the maplist. It has a lower case t to begin the map so it will go to 
> the end. If you look into the invasion maps folder: 
> http://agutgopostal.com/invasionmaps/  there is an update with another 
> botter caught (v2).
> I'm at a loss as to why it won't show in your offline game. If you drop the 
> map onto desktop and the file directly, does it open your game up and start 
> the map? I have had multiple people use this map with no problem but if both 
> of you have issues, then there is something I need to fix. Please let me 
> know if you have sorted it out, or if you still cannot get it to show. 
> Thanks!! 
> 
> 

Both DM-theHallOfShame1.ut2 and DM-theHallOfShame2.ut2 dont show up in 
my maplist.

When I double click any default map file then ut2004 starts right into 
that map and I can play it.

Double clicking one of your maps gives a MS Visual C++ Window with a
runtime error.

thx,
duffguy

"duffguy" <duffguy@gawnet.ch> wrote in message 
news:48a0b262$0$16174$5402220f@news.sunrise.ch...
> snip>>
>>
>> Guys I am sorry you are having troubles. I have a totally vanilla install 
>> and dropped the downloaded map into it and it immediately showed up at 
>> the end of the maplist. It has a lower case t to begin the map so it will 
>> go to the end. If you look into the invasion maps folder: 
>> http://agutgopostal.com/invasionmaps/  there is an update with another 
>> botter caught (v2).
>> I'm at a loss as to why it won't show in your offline game. If you drop 
>> the map onto desktop and the file directly, does it open your game up and 
>> start the map? I have had multiple people use this map with no problem 
>> but if both of you have issues, then there is something I need to fix. 
>> Please let me know if you have sorted it out, or if you still cannot get 
>> it to show. Thanks!!
>
> Both DM-theHallOfShame1.ut2 and DM-theHallOfShame2.ut2 dont show up in my 
> maplist.
>
> When I double click any default map file then ut2004 starts right into 
> that map and I can play it.
>
> Double clicking one of your maps gives a MS Visual C++ Window with a
> runtime error.
>
> thx,
> duffguy

duff I hate to ask you to keep doing stuff, but could you copy the error for 
me? I cannot possibly think what the problem could be. I was careful to use 
stock statics and the custom meshes I made were all packaged in, hence the 
larger file size for such a simple map. Do you have the ECE bonus pack 
installed? Thanks for sticking with me on this. I really want to get it 
sorted out. 

>
> duff I hate to ask you to keep doing stuff, but could you copy the error 
> for me? I cannot possibly think what the problem could be. I was careful 
> to use stock statics and the custom meshes I made were all packaged in, 
> hence the larger file size for such a simple map. Do you have the ECE 
> bonus pack installed? Thanks for sticking with me on this. I really want 
> to get it sorted out.
>

OK I see the trouble. I used one mesh from the ECE bonus pack and you guys 
must not have it installed. I will rework the map and make a version 3 with 
the mesh installed. I'd still like to see the error though. See if it has 
"houradara" in it somewhere. 

"goPostal" <agutgopostal@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:zU2ok.12580$3l5.10438@newsfe06.iad...
>
>
>>
>> duff I hate to ask you to keep doing stuff, but could you copy the error 
>> for me? I cannot possibly think what the problem could be. I was careful 
>> to use stock statics and the custom meshes I made were all packaged in, 
>> hence the larger file size for such a simple map. Do you have the ECE 
>> bonus pack installed? Thanks for sticking with me on this. I really want 
>> to get it sorted out.
>>
>
> OK I see the trouble. I used one mesh from the ECE bonus pack and you guys 
> must not have it installed. I will rework the map and make a version 3 
> with the mesh installed. I'd still like to see the error though. See if it 
> has "houradara" in it somewhere.
>

I posted version3 in the same invasionmaps download folder. See if that one 
is ok if you wouldn't mind. Again I'm sorry guys. It was one simple mesh of 
crystals I overlooked as being in the bonus pack. Totally my fault. 

goPostal schrieb:

> I posted version3 in the same invasionmaps download folder. See if that one 
> is ok if you wouldn't mind. Again I'm sorry guys. It was one simple mesh of 
> crystals I overlooked as being in the bonus pack. Totally my fault. 
> 

hm how is it called? can't find it.

"Amon" <unimon@gmx.com> wrote in message news:g7qpfn$ukf$1@online.de...
> goPostal schrieb:
>
>> I posted version3 in the same invasionmaps download folder. See if that 
>> one is ok if you wouldn't mind. Again I'm sorry guys. It was one simple 
>> mesh of crystals I overlooked as being in the bonus pack. Totally my 
>> fault.
>
> hm how is it called? can't find it.
>

It's here:
http://agutgopostal.com/invasionmaps/

DM-theHallOfShame3.zip

or (better) you can also get the ECE bonus pack from:
http://agutgopostal.com/invfiles/
Look for a file called   ut2004-ecebonuspack1-1.exe or 
ut2004-ecebonuspack.exe
Epic fully supports this and it's almost considered a patch. If you install 
this you'll see all three maps (and have a bunch of new ONS stuff too). Yes, 
I know it's an .exe file but I assure you it's clean and ok to use. If you 
are uncomfortable with using that particular one a quick google will show 
you many sites you can get it from.

Again guys I'm very sorry. To be honest my 10 year old kid did the layout 
and the center room decorations. I didn't check the packages for each static 
mesh he used and there is just one single non-standard mesh installed (which 
is removed for v3). 

Map DM-theHallOfShame3.ut2 from http://agutgopostal.com/invasionmaps/

is in the maplist and working fine.

The error message is one of them almost useless 'something went wrong' 
type. I've sent it to you anyway.

greetz
duff

"duffguy" <duffguy@gawnet.ch> wrote in message 
news:48a17e57$0$16174$5402220f@news.sunrise.ch...
> Map DM-theHallOfShame3.ut2 from http://agutgopostal.com/invasionmaps/
>
> is in the maplist and working fine.
>
> The error message is one of them almost useless 'something went wrong' 
> type. I've sent it to you anyway.
>
> greetz
> duff

I sent it to you privately but also wanted to publicly apologize for my 
mistake that caused you trouble. In the future I won't make errors like 
that.

All those shots were taken from my server and another. It's amazing how 
people will ignore you when you tell them they scan dirty. Every person on 
the walls was warned and chose to ignore it. I hope this doesn't seem 
extreme but we play RPG and there is very much an incentive to do the best 
you can, as the rewards carry over from game to game in increased abilities, 
so rooting out cheating is very important to keep the game fair.

goPostal schrieb:
> "Amon" <unimon@gmx.com> wrote in message news:g7qpfn$ukf$1@online.de...
>> goPostal schrieb:
>>
>>> I posted version3 in the same invasionmaps download folder. See if that 
>>> one is ok if you wouldn't mind. Again I'm sorry guys. It was one simple 
>>> mesh of crystals I overlooked as being in the bonus pack. Totally my 
>>> fault.
>> hm how is it called? can't find it.
>>
> 
> It's here:
> http://agutgopostal.com/invasionmaps/
> 
> DM-theHallOfShame3.zip
> 
> or (better) you can also get the ECE bonus pack from:
> http://agutgopostal.com/invfiles/
> Look for a file called   ut2004-ecebonuspack1-1.exe or 
> ut2004-ecebonuspack.exe
> Epic fully supports this and it's almost considered a patch. If you install 
> this you'll see all three maps (and have a bunch of new ONS stuff too). Yes, 
> I know it's an .exe file but I assure you it's clean and ok to use. If you 
> are uncomfortable with using that particular one a quick google will show 
> you many sites you can get it from.
> 
> Again guys I'm very sorry. To be honest my 10 year old kid did the layout 
> and the center room decorations. I didn't check the packages for each static 
> mesh he used and there is just one single non-standard mesh installed (which 
> is removed for v3). 
> 

Ah I looked under invfiles, so I couldn?t find the map. I thougt I had 
ECE Bonus Back already installed, but it seems that I mixed it up with 
an EZE Map I downloaded from a server. xD
So I will install ECE Pack now too.

btw what is invasion? ist it like Monster Hunt for classic UT?

"Amon" <unimon@gmx.com> wrote in message news:g7v1jp$u59$1@online.de...
> btw what is invasion? ist it like Monster Hunt for classic UT?

It's the kind of the same, but very different in some ways. You use the DM 
maps and through a couple of mods you configure "waves" of monsters to 
attack. The monsters are freely interchangeable, unlike MH where they are 
coded to the map. You can also alter most every aspect of the monster from 
strength, number, damage, size, etc. There are also about 400 or so custom 
monsters you can select from in different packs so waves can be "themed" if 
you want.

When you combine invasion with RPG it makes for a really fun server if it is 
set up right. In RPG you earn points for every kill. These points combine to 
make "levels" and each level up gives you a set amount of "stats" to spend 
on improving your abilities. These levels are server side saved too so if 
you leave and come back the next day, you pick up where you left off and 
don't lose anything.

In my server I run a very open RPG with a lot of custom monsters. It's very 
hard in the last 5 or 6 waves, but the RPG is generous in giving stats to 
spend. It won't take a lot of playing time before you can get a reasonable 
shot at completing a map. If you ever want to give it a try, let me know and 
I'll join you long enough to give you God and Loaded so you can play and 
explore without getting killed right off. All the mods are server pushed so 
you don't need to download anything ahead of time. 

goPostal wrote:

... Bloody ages ago - sorry!

> Flash I used ScreenshotSender on my UT2004 server for a while and I started 
> getting tired of fighting people over totally aimbot screenshots. Deny, 
> deny, deny was the standard. I got pissed about it and contacted Gugi, who 
> coded the sender. He blessed my little idea so I created a nice little box 
> map with the cheaters screenshots plastered all over the walls. I figured it 
> would either get my server bombed with crashers or highlight what you SHOULD 
> NOT DO. Mind you, each of the botters highlighted on the map was given a 
> chance by me personally to remove the bot before playing on my server and 
> chose to ignore me.
> 
> I'm happy to report that it worked wonderfully. Even better it was 
> well-received among the players and a couple of busted players came forward 
> and apologized. Now another server uses it to remind their players too, and 
> it was received well there too. My personal opinion is that for too long the 
> cheat community has operated in the dark, with normal people only partially 
> understanding what aimbots/radars/hacks can do. Anyone that admins my 
> servers get a package of the latest aimbots with instructions on install, 
> usage, then removal. I WANT them to see what they do so it's much easier to 
> spot. Shines a light on them and to a man my admins go "OMG! I never knew!"

I've stopped short of posting the obvious screens publically, but maybe 
that's not the right thing to do. I think there are arguements on both 
sides - educating and highlighting vs downplaying and underreporting.

Obviously I think educating is a good thing - I wrote the FAQ based on 
that, but I'm genuinely undecided about publishing UTDC screenies of 
aimbots in (brief) action, whether it would encourage others to try or 
whether they're smart enough to realise they'll get caught and banned 
for life if they do. I've had to ban plenty regular players who were 
stupid for a moment and tried to use a bot on our servers.

> You are welcome to use the map any way you'd like. 

Thanks - but I don't really like 2k4 very much. Not a great thing since 
I'm kinda minding the Multiplay 2k4's until they can replace the last CL.

"Flash" <NOSPAM@digdilem.org> wrote in message 
news:97SdncOp_573ulHVnZ2dnUVZ8gydnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...

> I've stopped short of posting the obvious screens publically, but maybe 
> that's not the right thing to do. I think there are arguements on both 
> sides - educating and highlighting vs downplaying and underreporting.
>
> Obviously I think educating is a good thing - I wrote the FAQ based on 
> that, but I'm genuinely undecided about publishing UTDC screenies of 
> aimbots in (brief) action, whether it would encourage others to try or 
> whether they're smart enough to realise they'll get caught and banned for 
> life if they do. I've had to ban plenty regular players who were stupid 
> for a moment and tried to use a bot on our servers.
>
>> You are welcome to use the map any way you'd like.
>
> Thanks - but I don't really like 2k4 very much. Not a great thing since 
> I'm kinda minding the Multiplay 2k4's until they can replace the last CL.

Did you guys get hammered by the reset hack?