🚀 go-pugleaf

+-- Dan Hartung <dhar...@mcs.net> wrote:
| Having worked the phones, I truly enjoyed this story the first time I
| heard it ... but then I sat there looking at the minitower on my desk
| and realized that *every CD-ROM drive* has this logo on the front that
| says 
|      compact
|      d i s c

The variant I saw listed Australia as the point of origin, and emphasized
that the drive had "4X" written on the front ("4X" is the abbreviation for
a popular brand of Aussie beer, apparently).

Actually I've only seen one variant so far, listing Novell as the source,
and after four years of doing hotline tech support I'll believe almost
anything.

Scott "1. Is it plugged in?" Forbes
-- 
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If you finish before time is called, you may check your work on
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In <4vvdb4$6...@lex.zippo.com>, h...@slc.unisys.com (Helge Moulding) writes:

>* the refrigerator magnet - most fridge magnets aren't strong enough for
>  two pieces of paper, never mind a floppy disk. And fridge magnets aren't
>  likely to damage the floppy, either, as weak as they are.

No, but there are big, heavy-duty, flat magnets used in offices.  Some of 
these are strong enough to hold an overcoat.  About a quarter of a century ago
there was a problem of tapes being found partially erased when retrieved from
the tape library.  There was no pattern to the damage; it was unrelated to place
of slotting, to user, or application.  After much anguish the problem was traced
to the tape librarian's desk.  He had one of those big magnets holding up some
paper on the side of a file cabinet next to his desk.  Returned tapes were
stacked on the desk, next to the file cabinet.  Sometimes the stack would get as
high as the magnet, and sometimes it wouldn't.  This happened in the NAS
computer center at the FAA National Aviation Facilities Experimental Center
outside Atlantic City.

     --------------------------------------------
     -----  John Varela     j...@os2bbs.com  -----
     --------------------------------------------

i *do* personally know of at least staples thru the floppy, altho' i 
deeply doubt my experience could've started the legend -- in another 
incarnation i was working for a software compnay (no, not that one) 
around asis and working on copyright lawsuits in various countries.  in 
many of those countries such cases had never been brought before, or if 
they had, they had involved books, never software.  we actually had a 
case where the local authorities decided our files should be handled 
like all other files (since they weren't familiar with the substance of 
our novel arguments, they at least were going to be really scrupulous 
about the procedure).

they therefore filed the seized floppies as they filed everything else: 
 in those folders where you punch holes in the papers and stick little 
metal rods thru to hold them in the file . . .  so much for the case.  
ok, they weren't *staples* per se, but it really happened . . .

and then there was the case where the evidence (floppies once again) was 
stored in a jail cell -- where it was eaten by mice . . .

it's all in a day's work and there wasn't a female secretary around . . 

a...@ix.netcom.com(ANDREW GRYGUS ) writes:

>Actually, this whole thing was probably started by a help desk guy who
>used it that way so the open manuals piled on his desk wouldn't keep
>pushing his cup overboard.  Having examined a number of these, I find
>most are sturdy enough for this service.

I can see it now....

my_linuxbox> mount /dev/mcd /cdrom

*BANG*

"Oops, that was supposed to be /dev/hdc...." [1]

Bernie

[1] both are valid CD-ROMs on my machine, and the Mitsumi one will close
    the tray when accessed while being open.



-- 
============================================================================
"How does Windows work?"
  Mike Battersby, BCS (Hon), System administrator at Deakin Uni, while trying 
  to handle Netscape/Windows during a meeting of the Linux Users of Victoria

tr...@lucent.com (Scott Forbes) wrote:
>+-- Dan Hartung <dhar...@mcs.net> wrote:

>| and realized that *every CD-ROM drive* has this logo on the front 
>|that says 
>|      compact
>|      d i s c
>
>The variant I saw listed Australia as the point of origin, and 
>emphasized that the drive had "4X" written on the front ("4X" is the 
>abbreviation for a popular brand of Aussie beer, apparently).

Or not, as the case may be. I've never heard it. Any other Aussies ever 
heard of XXXX being written 4X? (i mean it is _called_ "Four EX", but
written 'XXXX')

Yet another indicator of the UL status of this story I'd reckon...

CRIT 
Australian and not _that_ stupid

tr...@lucent.com (Scott Forbes) writes:

>+-- Dan Hartung <dhar...@mcs.net> wrote:
>| Having worked the phones, I truly enjoyed this story the first time I
>| heard it ... but then I sat there looking at the minitower on my desk
>| and realized that *every CD-ROM drive* has this logo on the front that
>| says 
>|      compact
>|      d i s c

Well --- I just got out the flashlight and checked two of my three drives,
and both have the logo on. However, neither of them has it written in some
different colour (like, for example, black), but rather it is reliefed on
the tray. Now, given the usually low light around my place, the position of
the computer and the colour of the thing, it actually took me a while to 
find them.... (In case you wonder: One Sony, one Mitsumi. The third one is
in the 486 beneath the desk, I am not checking that one ;-)

>The variant I saw listed Australia as the point of origin, and emphasized
>that the drive had "4X" written on the front ("4X" is the abbreviation for
>a popular brand of Aussie beer, apparently).

Although that "Aussie" brand of beer is spelled XXXX. It's actually from
the sunny Queensland, but I suspect it will be a long time before someone
puts "VB" or "Fosters" on a CD-ROM, so that's OK....

Bernie "and I don't even drink the stuff" Meyer
-- 
============================================================================
"How does Windows work?"
  Mike Battersby, BCS (Hon), System administrator at Deakin Uni, while trying 
  to handle Netscape/Windows during a meeting of the Linux Users of Victoria

In <502af2$g...@darkwing.uoregon.edu> ksch...@darkwing.uoregon.edu (Kevin Leslie Schaper) writes:

>I couldn't find any fridge magnets, and I'm not sure if a phone handset is
>more or less magnetic, but I left the handset from my fancy at&t darth
>vader phone on a full disk for 5 minutes, and all the wav files I stuck on
>it still played ok.. I expected it to break it, whaddya know..

Not only that, but the sound quality was noticeably warmer.


>(anything I didn't quote I agree with..)

(anything I didn't have to reformat I disagree with)



-- 
    / \      Left Reverend Nigh Invulnerable            fn...@panix.com
   /<0>\     Church of the Subverted Paradigm
  /     \                                               God Plays Dice!
 /_______\    --> FIVE TONS OF FLAX <--          Death To All Fanatics! 

In article <502af2$g...@darkwing.uoregon.edu>, ksch...@darkwing.uoregon.edu
(Kevin Leslie Schaper) wrote:

> >* the refrigerator magnet - most fridge magnets aren't strong enough for
> >  two pieces of paper, never mind a floppy disk. And fridge magnets aren't
> >  likely to damage the floppy, either, as weak as they are.
> 
> I couldn't find any fridge magnets, and I'm not sure if a phone handset
is more or less 
> magnetic, but I left the handset from my fancy at&t darth vader phone on
a full disk for 5 
> minutes, and all the wav files I stuck on it still played ok.. I expected
it to break it, 
> whaddya know.. 




Agreed. I've rubbed some high-powered magnets (not fridge magnets, but a
large metal jobber that can hold a full manilla folder to the file cabinet)
over an 800K floppy... did the scrub-scrub motion for about a minute or
two, and popped in the disk. fine.

did it for about 10 minutes, just out of curiosity. "This disk needs minor
repairs. Do you want to repair it?"  Click OK. It's fine.

I think the whole magnet thing is just a big hoax. ;)

--the kumquat

-- 
[========ea...@wwa.com=============the=kumquat=kuriosity===]
[ good does not require evil,  |                           ]
[ as light doesn't need dark.  |    have you hugged your   ]
[ contrast != dependence.      |       sysadmin today?     ]
[______________________________|___________________________]

In article <502af2$g...@darkwing.uoregon.edu>,
Kevin Leslie Schaper <ksch...@darkwing.uoregon.edu> wrote:

[margins repaired]

>I couldn't find any fridge magnets, and I'm not sure if a phone handset is
>more or less magnetic, but I left the handset from my fancy at&t darth
>vader phone on a full disk for 5 minutes, and all the wav files I stuck on
>it still played ok.. I expected it to break it, whaddya know.. 

Yeah, I once took a disk that couldn't hold anything for very long anyway 
(cheap crap) and stuffed some files on it and then attacked it with all 
manner of magnets.  I even rubbed it, with the door open, on the tv 
screen.  Couldn't get it to lose.  Funny, eh, how they just sort of die 
when they're sitting there, but not when you're TRYING to kill them.

--Eric Smith

Helge Moulding (h...@slc.unisys.com) wrote:
[...]
: There are so many luser tales around, as this thread shows. I suspect that
: every one of them was started by help desk people. Made up of whole cloth.
: And, no, I'm not convinced by anyone who claims that it happened to them.
: So I'm calling them a liar. What do they care?
: 
: Consider some of the other stories.
: 
: * the photocopy of the disk - why would the service center want a *copy*
:   of a disk? If the disk is defective, they have you send it in for an
:   exchange.

Because it wasn't a defective disk.  It was a data disk, and they were
having problems with some function of the program with that data.  We asked
for a copy of the disk, rather than the original, so they would still be
able to run everything else.  What came in the mail was a Xerox(tm) copy
of the diskette.

[...]
: * the refrigerator magnet - most fridge magnets aren't strong enough for
:   two pieces of paper, never mind a floppy disk. And fridge magnets aren't
:   likely to damage the floppy, either, as weak as they are.

Well, this was third-party to me.  (But not FOF.)  My brother says he saw
it in his office.

[...]

-- 
+---------+----------------------------------+--------------------------------+
| Kenneth |       kenb...@cloud9.net        | "The opinions expressed herein |
|    J.   |                                  |  are not necessarily those of  |
|  Brody  | http://www.cloud9.net/~kenbrody/ |  AdminaStar Communications."   |
+---------+----------------------------------+--------------------------------+
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In article <4vvdb4$6...@lex.zippo.com>, h...@slc.unisys.com (Helge Moulding) wrote:

> Consider some of the other stories.
> 
> * the refrigerator magnet - most fridge magnets aren't strong enough for
>   two pieces of paper, never mind a floppy disk. And fridge magnets aren't
>   likely to damage the floppy, either, as weak as they are.

Yeah, that one bugs me, too. In fact, I heard it one too many times, and
finally prepared a demo for my user group. I brought in a loudspeaker with
a rather hefty magnet in it, and used it to "accidentally" pick up a 3.5"
floppy by the shutter. This speaker magnet was strong enough to hold both
the speaker (a fairly heavy one) AND a 3.5" floppy to the refrigerator.

After publicly bemoaning that I had "probably ruined" my demo by getting
all that "yucky magnetic stuff" all over my floppy, I suggested to the
crowd that maybe I could "wipe the magnetism off the floppy". I then
proceeded to rub the floppy vigorously all over the magnet - both sides,
and all four edges. I even opened the shutter, and tapped the floppy
against the magnet "to shake loose any magnetism that had gotten inside."

Then I left the speaker hanging from a convenient metal surface while I
put the floppy in the drive, ran a few programs from it, copied the whole
thing to the hard drive (I had about 1.3MB of data on a 1.4MB floppy),
including a program that could do a checksum on the disk. When I ran the
program, it produced the same checksum as it had when I made the floppy a
week before. 

During most of that week, I had left the floppy sitting under my
telephone, one of those classic jobs that actually uses electromagnets to
ring the bell. That didn't hurt it either.

The risk to floppies from magnets and ringing telephones is, as they say,
greatly exaggerated. I advise the doubters to try the experiment for
themselves.

A couple of caveats (since I'm sure someone else will mention them if I don't):

 - A 3.5" floppy has a plastic case the provides a little physical
   separation between the recording surface and an external magnet.
   This does make a difference. When I tried the same experiment with
   a 5.25" disk, the magnet did indeed produce bad sectors.

 - If I put the 5.25" floppy inside one of those cardboard mailers, one
   with cardboard a little thinner than is normally found in shoeboxes,
   the magnet would still damage it. But if I put the floppy on one side
   of the mailer, and the magnet on the other (so that I had two thickness
   of the cardboard between them), then the magnet did not harm the floppy.

 - Curiously, this applied even if I stuck the floppy to the refrigerator.
   That is, a four-layer sandwich consiisting of

      "magnet":"mailer (both layers)":"5.25 floppy":"refrigerator"

   caused no harm to the floppy, even though the the magnet was strong
   enough to hold the whole ensemble in place. Keep in mind that the magnet
   still has a speaker attached to it, and is holding that up as well.

   I say curiously, because the lines of magnetic flux should be nearly 
   parallel in this configuration, so the strength of the field should
   be nearly constant with distance. I'm just reporting the results of
   the experiment. I'll let someone else explain it.

 - I also have a bulk eraser, a legacy of my youth in the days before it
   was feasible for an ordinary person to own a computer, and I was into
   audio technology instead. This bulk eraser was designed to erase an 
   entire reel of magnetic tape at once. It can erase a floppy, even the 
   3.5" variety, just dandy, even from about 1/4" away. (It can also 
   distort the image on my monitor from about 4 feet away. No one is
   going to leave such a strong magnet anywhere near their monitor.)

-Ron Hunsinger

Ron Hunsinger <hns...@sirius.com>:
> - A 3.5" floppy has a plastic case the provides a little physical
>   separation between the recording surface and an external magnet.
>   This does make a difference. When I tried the same experiment with
>   a 5.25" disk, the magnet did indeed produce bad sectors.

And indeed, all the stories I've heard about people accidentally
ruining their disks with refridgerator magnets date back to before the
use of 3.5" floppies.

b

the kumquat kuriosity wrote:

> Agreed. I've rubbed some high-powered magnets (not fridge magnets, but a
> large metal jobber that can hold a full manilla folder to the file cabinet)
> over an 800K floppy... did the scrub-scrub motion for about a minute or
> two, and popped in the disk. fine.
> 
> did it for about 10 minutes, just out of curiosity. "This disk needs minor
> repairs. Do you want to repair it?"  Click OK. It's fine.
> 
> I think the whole magnet thing is just a big hoax. ;)

Try putting an Ur-floppy (the eight incher) or a five-and-a-quarter-incher
to the same test and get back to us.

In a previous article, Articulate Mandible <dibbe...@highsoft.com> said:
[magnet on the floppy done to a 3.5" floppy]
>> I think the whole magnet thing is just a big hoax. ;)
>
>Try putting an Ur-floppy (the eight incher) or a five-and-a-quarter-incher
>to the same test and get back to us.

Note that the magnetic coercitivity (can't remember the technical term) for a
high density (1.2Mb) 5.25" floppy is a lot higher than for a double density
(360Kb) 5.25" floppy.  That means it takes a much higher magnetic field to
change the information on the floppy.  One consequence of this is that if you
took a disk that had been formatted to 1.2Mb and stuck it in a 360Kb drive,
you wouldn't be able to reformat it, even though a blank unformatted disk from
the same box would format ok in the 360Kb drive.  Another consequence of this
is that the "fridge magnet" treatment probably has a much greater likelyhood
of ruining a 360Kb disk than a 1.2Mb disk.

--                             |
Paul Tomblin, PP-ASEL         _|_        Rochester Flying Club web page:
                         ____/___\____   http://www.servtech.com/public/
                  ___________[o0o]___________   ptomblin/rfc.html
ptom...@xcski.com         O   O    O

ea...@wwa.com (the kumquat kuriosity) wrote:

>Agreed. I've rubbed some high-powered magnets (not fridge magnets, but a
>large metal jobber that can hold a full manilla folder to the file cabinet)
>over an 800K floppy... did the scrub-scrub motion for about a minute or
>two, and popped in the disk. fine.

Well, guess what: I can't get the media to fail, either.  This
wouldn't bother me if I hadn't lost so much data on floppies.  Grrrr.
Well, we have a phone test box at work that will cause a phone to
ring.  So, I'll take my old AT&T slimline phone (with mechanical bell)
down and continue this.

So, a question: what is it that will cause a disk to go bad in the
five minutes it takes me to drive to work?  It sure as heck isn't
magnetism.  :-/  I can't count the number of times I've gone home to
grab something, put it on a floppy, drove to work, and couldn't read
the disk.

= Warren -- http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent

tan...@cyberport.com (Warren Young) wrote:

>ea...@wwa.com (the kumquat kuriosity) wrote:
>
>>Agreed. I've rubbed some high-powered magnets (not fridge magnets, but a
>>large metal jobber that can hold a full manilla folder to the file cabinet)
>>over an 800K floppy... did the scrub-scrub motion for about a minute or
>>two, and popped in the disk. fine.
>
>Well, guess what: I can't get the media to fail, either.  This
>wouldn't bother me if I hadn't lost so much data on floppies.  Grrrr.
>Well, we have a phone test box at work that will cause a phone to
>ring.  So, I'll take my old AT&T slimline phone (with mechanical bell)
>down and continue this.
>
>So, a question: what is it that will cause a disk to go bad in the
>five minutes it takes me to drive to work?  It sure as heck isn't
>magnetism.  :-/  I can't count the number of times I've gone home to
>grab something, put it on a floppy, drove to work, and couldn't read
>the disk.

Well, the obvious possibility is that your two drives are 'out of spec'
in opposite directions.  This could make the two drives unable to read
one another's disks.  Have you tried later re-reading the disk on your
home machine?  Have you tried it in a different machine at work.  

To keep this in the alt.folklore.computers vein, in the 'good old days',
when men were men and all good tape drives were NRZI, it was not
uncommon to find a tape which could be read ONLY on the tape drive which
created it.  This created quite a muddle when, in the course of a busy
night, the drives had been crosspatched on the fly to shift logical
assignments.

>
>= Warren -- http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent

---------------
Larry McKnight
(this space unintentionally left blank.....

In <322a08e0...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, mckn...@ix.netcom.com (Lawrence E. McKnight) writes:
>tan...@cyberport.com (Warren Young) wrote:
>
>>ea...@wwa.com (the kumquat kuriosity) wrote:
>>
>>>Agreed. I've rubbed
snips>>
>>So, a question: what is it that will cause a disk to go bad in the
>>five minutes it takes me to drive to work?  It sure as heck isn't
>>magnetism.  :-/  I can't count the number of times I've gone home to
>>grab something, put it on a floppy, drove to work, and couldn't read
>>the disk.
>
>Well, the obvious possibility is that your two drives are 'out of spec'
>in opposite directions.  
snips
>

Another common cause:  The diskette was formatted on a clone at 720k density,
and is being read by a PS/2 computer with a 1.44meg floppy.  Solution:  format 
on the PS/2,  then both will work.  Or better, use 1.44meg floppies (HD).

Warren
http://www.borg.com/~warren

tan...@cyberport.com (Warren Young) wrote:

>So, a question: what is it that will cause a disk to go bad in the
>five minutes it takes me to drive to work?  It sure as heck isn't
>magnetism.  :-/  I can't count the number of times I've gone home to
>grab something, put it on a floppy, drove to work, and couldn't read
>the disk.

Ever heard of head alignment?  Your work or home or both computer disk
drives may need alignment.  I've also seen this kind of problem solved
by having the reading computer (work for you I guess) be the one who
formats the disk.

JoAnne "8-tracks and cassettes were/are subject to the same gremlins"
Schmitz
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frankly, the coldness and cruelty of most of the people who chastize 
violators of the rule to have read the FAQ before posting is so appalling 
to me that not reading the FAQ has become for me a way of asserting the 
value of human kindness.  Besides, if these cruel people had anything to 
do with the authorship of the FAQ, I especially do not want to read it.
---------Matt Beckwith explaining himself on alt.folklore.urban----------

Warren Young (tan...@cyberport.com) wrote:

: So, a question: what is it that will cause a disk to go bad in the
: five minutes it takes me to drive to work?  It sure as heck isn't
: magnetism.  :-/  I can't count the number of times I've gone home to
: grab something, put it on a floppy, drove to work, and couldn't read
: the disk.

I'm not sure where I live, but I'll ask anyway:  do you by any chance
cross the equator on your drive to work?

Regards
Ray

Ray Depew wrote:

> I'm not sure where I live, but I'll ask anyway: 

I sure hope they tell you.  Reminds me of conversation between Milton
Berle and resident at nursing home.
U. Miltie  "Do you know who I am?"
resident   "No, but if you ask at the front desk, they'll tell you."

Charles Wm. Dimmick

Charles Wm. Dimmick (dim...@ccsu.ctstateu.edu) wrote:
: Ray Depew wrote:

: > I'm not sure where I live, but I'll ask anyway: 

: I sure hope they tell you.  

Man, I hate it when I do that.

R
R

Ray Depew (r...@fc.hp.com) wrote:
: Warren Young (tan...@cyberport.com) wrote:

: : So, a question: what is it that will cause a disk to go bad in the
: : five minutes it takes me to drive to work?  It sure as heck isn't
: : magnetism.  :-/  I can't count the number of times I've gone home to
: : grab something, put it on a floppy, drove to work, and couldn't read
: : the disk.

: I'm not sure where I live, but I'll ask anyway:  do you by any chance
: cross the equator on your drive to work?

Oh, THAT'S RIGHT!  Hard drives and floppy drives spin the other way
south of the equator!  A side-effect of this is that they can't be
used *at* the equator, because they don't spin at all.  You've also
got to watch out if you get one close to the poles, because the spin
velocity increases toward infinity (that's why they're called "poles",
because if you plot spin velocity vs. latitude, the plot has a 
pole at +90 and -90 degrees).  Usually the drives break apart 
before you get to the pole; if you ever got one all the way there,
it would implode on itself and create a black hole.

I believe this is becuase of the Coriolis effect.

--
Tom Harrington ------- t...@rmii.com ------- http://rainbow.rmii.com/~tph
   "Welcome to the real world - an interesting place to visit, but I
                 refuse to live there." -Andy Rozmiarek
-> Fractal Kit:  http://rainbow.rmii.com/~tph/fractalkit/fractal.html <-

In article <32290ce2...@news.cyberport.com>, tan...@cyberport.com
(Warren Young) wrote:

> So, a question: what is it that will cause a disk to go bad in the
> five minutes it takes me to drive to work?  It sure as heck isn't
> magnetism.  :-/  I can't count the number of times I've gone home to
> grab something, put it on a floppy, drove to work, and couldn't read
> the disk.

The obvious candidates are:

   a) misaligned heads, and

   b) dirt.

-Ron Hunsinger

What kind of ringer does your phone have?  Electronic or mechanical?

-- 
#include <standard_disclaimer.h>
 _
Kevin D Quitt  USA 91351-4454           96.37% of all statistics are made up
Per the FCA, this email address may not be added to any commercial mail list

: >I couldn't find any fridge magnets, and I'm not sure if a phone handset is
: >more or less magnetic, but I left the handset from my fancy at&t darth
: >vader phone on a full disk for 5 minutes, and all the wav files I stuck on
: >it still played ok.. I expected it to break it, whaddya know..

: Not only that, but the sound quality was noticeably warmer.

I slapped a 3 1/2 inch Mac formatted floppy on a laboratory magnetic 
stirrer set to full throttle. After 1 hour of whizzing a magnetic flea
around on the disk, the machine read it just fine. I am beginning to 
wonder how big a field you need to cpletely raz a floppy.

Dr.E. - The Cartoon: <http://www.liv.ac.uk/~nce/home.htm>
Personal Website   : <http://www.liv.ac.uk/~nce/personal/index.htm>

Dr. Nigel C. Eastmond               | Email  n...@liv.ac.uk
Dept. Pharmacology and Therapeutics | Tel.   +44 (0)151 794 5541
University of Liverpool             | Fax.   +44 (0)151 794 5540
Liverpool L69 3BX                   | Mobile 0468 453892

Ray Depew (r...@fc.hp.com) wrote:
: Charles Wm. Dimmick (dim...@ccsu.ctstateu.edu) wrote:
: : Ray Depew wrote:

: : > I'm not sure where I live, but I'll ask anyway: 

: : I sure hope they tell you.  

: Man, I hate it when I do that.

I hate it when you do that too.

Where my dad used to work, they once discovered *all* their backup tapes
had been erased.  (Naturally, this was immediately after a hard disk
crash).

Turns out the tape storage had been moved from one desk to another.  The
first desk was metal, the second wood.  And when the janitors ran their
heavy-duty floor waxer (with that hefty electric motor on top) under the
shelf of the wood desk... guess what!

(Can you say, "bulk erase?")

In <50ij66$9...@news.goodnet.com> jab...@goodnet.com (the Jabberwock) writes:

>Where my dad used to work, they once discovered *all* their backup tapes
>had been erased.  (Naturally, this was immediately after a hard disk
>crash).

>Turns out the tape storage had been moved from one desk to another.  The
>first desk was metal, the second wood.  And when the janitors ran their
>heavy-duty floor waxer (with that hefty electric motor on top) under the
>shelf of the wood desk... guess what!

>(Can you say, "bulk erase?")

Can you say "vectored a common UL"?

Ask your Dad if it specifically happened to him, or if it simply happened
"where he worked".  Probe for specific details and you may find that they
fall apart.

I have a very hard time believing that the motor of a floor waxer is
capable of bulk erasing anything that isn't right on top of it.  Do I need
to remind you that magnetism is a reciprocal of distance squared force?
And oh yeah.. wouldn't a steel desk CONCENTRATE the magnetic lines of force
rather than shield against them?



-- 
    / \      Left Reverend Nigh Invulnerable            fn...@panix.com
   /<0>\     Church of the Subverted Paradigm
  /     \                                               God Plays Dice!
 /_______\    --> FIVE TONS OF FLAX <--          Death To All Fanatics! 

In article <50k5b8$3...@eve.speakeasy.org> bri...@speakeasy.org (Brian Raiter) writes:

>They were mistaken, however, as you did prove something. Namely: a ringing
>telephone will not erase a floppy disk 100% of the time. Now if you want to
>prove that a ringing telephone will never erase a floppy disk, or will fail
>to 90% of the time, I suggest you get to work.

I recently encountered a much more effective method.  Upon purchasing a box of 
formatted disks, I took them to the checkout (this was a discount store, not 
a computer store).  

It turns out they put one of those security devices on a lousy $5 box of 
disks.  To disable the security stickum, they had to run the box over a high 
powered magnet several times.  The sign next to the magnet said "Keep Credit 
Cards Away" as apparently magnets might actually destroy encoded data.  


Bob "using eel-skin disk sleeves for protection" Hiebert

Tektronix says these are just my opinions.

Ron Hunsinger <hns...@sirius.com> writes:
: The coffee at THIS MacDonald's was served at around 200F. That is, just a
: few degrees below boiling. The woman was severely burned, requiring
 
THIS being the Mickey D's at Yellowstone, no doubt.
 
Matthew "here's mud in yer eye" Rabuzzi

n...@liverpool.ac.uk wrote:
>: >I couldn't find any fridge magnets, and I'm not sure if a phone handset is
>: >more or less magnetic, but I left the handset from my fancy at&t darth
>: >vader phone on a full disk for 5 minutes, and all the wav files I stuck on
>: >it still played ok.. I expected it to break it, whaddya know..
>
>: Not only that, but the sound quality was noticeably warmer.
>
>I slapped a 3 1/2 inch Mac formatted floppy on a laboratory magnetic 
>stirrer set to full throttle. After 1 hour of whizzing a magnetic flea
>around on the disk, the machine read it just fine. I am beginning to 
>wonder how big a field you need to cpletely raz a floppy.

Technically, a magnetic field of 50 oersteds or greater may cause
data loss.

Practically, two 10 ounce ceramic speaker magnets will unformat a
floppy very nicely.

Floyd

-- 
Floyd L. Davidson          Salcha, Alaska         fl...@tanana.polarnet.com

r...@fc.hp.com (Ray Depew) writes:

>Warren Young (tan...@cyberport.com) wrote:

>: So, a question: what is it that will cause a disk to go bad in the
>: five minutes it takes me to drive to work?  It sure as heck isn't
>: magnetism.  :-/  I can't count the number of times I've gone home to
>: grab something, put it on a floppy, drove to work, and couldn't read
>: the disk.

>I'm not sure where I live, but I'll ask anyway:  do you by any chance
>cross the equator on your drive to work?

Oh!! That explains why I have so much trouble with Microsoft programs,
Those installation disks must have been written to in the Northern
Hemisphere, and since I am using them in Australia, the reversal of
the Earth's magnetic field must be scrambling the bits!

hmmm, now all we need is a local field reversing generator, and ALL
codes will be bug free! :)

Now, if only I could figure out why ftp'ed programs give the same trouble.
--
*   ,-_|\       Chuen Chan (ch...@elec.uq.edu.au)
*  /     *  <=  PA^3SE (Par. Arch., Algorithms And Software Eng.) Research Lab
*  \_,--_/      Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering
*       v       The University of Queensland, Brisbane Qld 4072, Australia 

Warren Young wrote:

> So, a question: what is it that will cause a disk to go bad in the
> five minutes it takes me to drive to work?  It sure as heck isn't
> magnetism.  :-/  I can't count the number of times I've gone home to
> grab something, put it on a floppy, drove to work, and couldn't read
> the disk.

It's pretty obvious to me. It's either your magnetic personality or
your deodorant.

Sharing the wisdom of the ages with those of us reading
alt.folklore.urban, fn...@panix.com (Cliff Heller) wrote:

>I have a very hard time believing that the motor of a floor waxer is
>capable of bulk erasing anything that isn't right on top of it.  Do I need
>to remind you that magnetism is a reciprocal of distance squared force?

Excellent point, and one that is frequently overlooked in these
legends....

>And oh yeah.. wouldn't a steel desk CONCENTRATE the magnetic lines of force
>rather than shield against them?

Actually, it would shield *by* concentrating them.  The magnetic lines
would tend to flow through the steel, rather than through the air
above it.

Bottom line, however, is that, unless the motor was very poorly
shielded (plastic casing?) and very inefficient (magnetic fields *not*
concentrated within the motor to do work turning it) and very close to
the bottom of a very thin wood desk, with tapes sitting right at the
very bottom of the drawer..... Let's just say that this is unlikely.

 - Rick "Putting on my colander *just in case* " Dickinson


   Enterprise ArchiTechs    | Views expressed on topics unrelated
 http://www.eArchiTechs.com | to Lotus Notes are not those of my
  email: r...@notesguy.com   | company, and may not even be mine.

In article <50nb1c$9...@news2.cais.com>, r...@notesguy.com wrote:

> Sharing the wisdom of the ages with those of us reading
> alt.folklore.urban, fn...@panix.com (Cliff Heller) wrote:
> 
> >I have a very hard time believing that the motor of a floor waxer is
> >capable of bulk erasing anything that isn't right on top of it.  Do I need
> >to remind you that magnetism is a reciprocal of distance squared force?
> 
> Excellent point, and one that is frequently overlooked in these
> legends....

I have the experience of using a commercial grade bulk eraser (no not the
radio shack model) in a radio environment.

Since I used the tapes right after erasing them, I could tell just what it
took to erase them.

It wasn't easy to get a clean, like new-tape (reel to reel) without
putting the tape very close to the eraser (like an inch or less), and
thoroughly exposing all of the tape to the strongest part of the magnetic
field, the centre of the device. 

The new engineers were always more casual about it, and often had good
work ruined by not being thorough enough with the bulk eraser.

So the point being, it isn't easy to erase anything even with the intent
of earsing it, and with good equipment. So doing it accidentally could
only be considered unlikely or extraordinary.

James Linn
My opinions are MINE,MINE,MINE!!!

jab...@goodnet.com (the Jabberwock) wrote:
> Turns out the tape storage had been moved from one desk to another.  The
> first desk was metal, the second wood.  And when the janitors ran their
> heavy-duty floor waxer (with that hefty electric motor on top) under the
> shelf of the wood desk... guess what!
> 
> (Can you say, "bulk erase?")

sheesh, that's out of a.f.c archives, only when I heard it 28 years ago
it was a tape being taken across London, and the clerk/courier put
his briefcase with the tape under his seat on the Tube (London
Metro/Underground) right on top of the 600 volt DC motor...

-- 
Peter Kerr                        bodger
School of Music                   chandler
University of Auckland NZ         neo-Luddite

In <James_Linn-05...@47.59.0.157>, James...@nortel.com (James Linn) writes:
>In article <50nb1c$9...@news2.cais.com>, r...@notesguy.com wrote:
>
>
>I have the experience of using a commercial grade bulk eraser (no not the
>radio shack model) in a radio environment.
>
>
>James Linn

A rather perjorative slam-dunk at Radio Shack!  You have neither sampled 
their wares, nor testified to the same, by my experience with their "industrial" 
level products.  If you bought an $11 item meant for low-level audio and 
misapplied it, much to your shame.  Their notices were always clear, and their 
guarantees backed in full.

Warren "a customer, not a rantor" Hall
http://www.borg.com/~warren

[James Linn]
>>I have the experience of using a commercial grade bulk eraser (no not
>>the radio shack model) in a radio environment.

[Warren Hall]
>A rather perjorative slam-dunk at Radio Shack!  You have neither
>sampled their wares, nor testified to the same, by my experience with
>their "industrial" level products.  If you bought an $11 item meant for
>low-level audio and misapplied it, much to your shame.  Their notices
>were always clear, and their guarantees backed in full.

If I'm not mistaken (and I find it hard to believe that I am), one of
those big appliance warehouse stores like Circuit City or Incredible
Universe is owned by Tandy (which, of course, also owns Radio Shack).
So it's not like the parent company doesn't offer decent stuff; they
just seem to have different outlets for the high-level and the
low-level products.

What's your zip code, please?
Rudeboy

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    Rudeboy, the Voice of a Generation -- ez01...@chip.ucdavis.edu

Disclaimer:   My opinions are the opinions of my employer, my employer's 
 family and friends, and anyone else in the entire world who either has
  or has not met me, unless they specifically tell you otherwise and 
            specify the opinion with which they disagree.
  After having done so, any such individual still holds my opinions,
                whether they care to admit it or not.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

In <50oe8n$2...@ns2.borg.com>, war...@borg.com writes:
>In <James_Linn-05...@47.59.0.157>, James...@nortel.com (James Linn) writes:
>>In article <50nb1c$9...@news2.cais.com>, r...@notesguy.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>I have the experience of using a commercial grade bulk eraser (no not the
>>radio shack model) in a radio environment.
>>
>>
>>James Linn
>
>A rather perjorative slam-dunk at Radio Shack!  You have neither sampled 
>their wares, nor testified to the same, by my experience with their "industrial" 
>level products.  If you bought an $11 item meant for low-level audio and 
>misapplied it, much to your shame.  Their notices were always clear, and their 
>guarantees backed in full.

OK, I tested.  I saved the above post to a 1.4 MB floppy.  Then I treated the
floppy with my 15-year-old Radio Shacck "Realistic Magnetic Tape Eraser" that I
bought for degaussing cassette tapes used with my TRS-80 Model 1. I then
replaced the floppy in the drive and tried to read it.  Result:

[C:\]a:
SYS0027: The drive cannot find the sector (area) requested.

So now I'm reformatting it.

     --------------------------------------------
     -----  John Varela     j...@os2bbs.com  -----
     --------------------------------------------

In article <50q2go$7...@news1.mnsinc.com>, j...@os2bbs.com wrote:

> In <50oe8n$2...@ns2.borg.com>, m writes:
> >In <James_Linn-05...@47.59.0.157>, James...@nortel.com
(James Linn) writes:
> >>In article <50nb1c$9...@news2.cais.com>, r...@notesguy.com wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>I have the experience of using a commercial grade bulk eraser (no not the
> >>radio shack model) in a radio environment.
> >>
> >>
> >>James Linn
> >
> >A rather perjorative slam-dunk at Radio Shack!  You have neither sampled 
> >their wares, nor testified to the same, by my experience with their
"industrial" 
> >level products.  If you bought an $11 item meant for low-level audio and 
> >misapplied it, much to your shame.  Their notices were always clear,
and their 
> >guarantees backed in full.

Thank you for the commercial. I have in fact bought $22K (CDN$) of product
from Radio Shack in the last year for my employer, and was totally
satisfied with the equipment. Your pedantic surliness does not influence
me in any way. I, hope by the way, you aren't in sales or you may have a
hungry future, should your sales skills match be influenced by the above
attitude.

I did nothing that you imply, shameful or otherwise. I used (not bought or
specified) a commericial grade bulk eraser. The kind that makes the hair
on the back of your hand stand on end. It was/is the right tool for the
right job. 

The mention of the Radio Shack product was rather incidental, and simply
indicated a higher quality device, with no stated or implied slams on the
quality of the Radio Shack product(s). Does saying I prefer a Cadillac not
a Chevy mean I think Chevys are crap? It does imply I think Caddies are
better, and nothing more (for the record I don't drive either, its an
analogy).

My point in the post was to say that even with the best quality products,
it isn't a casual thing to thoroughly wipe a tape clean.  My point was not
to slam Radio Shack, nor do I think anyone but you would have taken it
that way.

If you want to pick fights, try rec.boxing or something. If you care to
continue the thread, try staying with the "here is what I know about
magnets and magnetic media" thread, and not jumping in with personal
attacks. It does cause the thread to wander somewhat.


James Linn
My opinions are MINE,MINE,MINE!!!

In article <p.kerr-0509...@news.auckland.ac.nz>,
p.k...@auckland.ac.nz (Peter Kerr) wrote:

> jab...@goodnet.com (the Jabberwock) wrote:
> > Turns out the tape storage had been moved from one desk to another.  The
> > first desk was metal, the second wood.  And when the janitors ran their
> > heavy-duty floor waxer (with that hefty electric motor on top) under the
> > shelf of the wood desk... guess what!
> > 
> > (Can you say, "bulk erase?")
> 
> sheesh, that's out of a.f.c archives, only when I heard it 28 years ago
> it was a tape being taken across London, and the clerk/courier put
> his briefcase with the tape under his seat on the Tube (London
> Metro/Underground) right on top of the 600 volt DC motor...
> 

My experience many moons ago (over 20 years!) was putting a 9 track tape
in the back seat of my VW bug.  The combination of heat generated (it was
a grey colored car), and the fact that the starter motor is VERY close to
where the tape was sitting for over a week, caused the tape to be
unserviceable.  I got very angry, and decided that the best place for 9
track tapes was UNDER the seat where it was both cooler, and farther away
from the starter motor.  I never had problems after that.

Now days, we all use 3.5 inch floppies, but they didn't exist then...

-- 
Tom Watson
t...@3do.com         (Home: t...@johana.com)

In article <4vvdb4$6...@lex.zippo.com>,
Helge Moulding <h...@slc.unisys.com> wrote:
>
>* the photocopy of the disk - why would the service center want a *copy*
>  of a disk? If the disk is defective, they have you send it in for an
>  exchange.

I've heard this one from lots of places *and* experienced it personally.
I'm sure it's happened many times.  To you it may be obvious that a
photo-copy is useless, but there are a lot of very baffled people out
there.  Whether they are right to be baffled or not is debatable, but to
many end users, the whole business is weird beyond comprehension.  If the
support desk says "Send a copy of the disc", the natural thing to do is
photocopy it.  Why should it be different from everything else one is
asked to copy?

John
-- 
John Winters.  Wallingford, Oxon, England.

r...@fc.hp.com (Ray Depew) wrote:

>: So, a question: what is it that will cause a disk to go bad in the
>: five minutes it takes me to drive to work?  It sure as heck isn't
>: magnetism.  :-/  I can't count the number of times I've gone home to
>: grab something, put it on a floppy, drove to work, and couldn't read
>: the disk.
>
>I'm not sure where I live, but I'll ask anyway:  do you by any chance
>cross the equator on your drive to work?

That's an interesting theory, but no, that isn't it.  B-)

= Warren -- http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent

Ron Hunsinger wrote:
> 
> In article <32290ce2...@news.cyberport.com>, tan...@cyberport.com
> (Warren Young) wrote:
> 
> > So, a question: what is it that will cause a disk to go bad in the
> > five minutes it takes me to drive to work?  It sure as heck isn't

> The obvious candidates are:
> 
>    a) misaligned heads, and
> 
>    b) dirt.

And c) heat.  I left a box of floppies in the car one day, and some of
them were dead or wounded by the end of the day.  Of course, this was
(a) cheap 5.25"s (circa 1985) and (b) Georgia in May.  :-)

/================================================================\
|John Francis Stracke| http://www.io.com/~francis |PGP key on Web|
|fra...@thibault.org|===========================================|
|Power Mac w/PPP     |My strength is as the strength of ten      |
|My Mac, my opinions.|  because my code is pure.                 |
\================================================================/

Warren Young (tan...@cyberport.com) wrote:
: r...@fc.hp.com (Ray Depew) wrote:

: >: So, a question: what is it that will cause a disk to go bad in the
: >: five minutes it takes me to drive to work? 
[...]
: >I'm not sure where I live, but I'll ask anyway:  do you by any chance
: >cross the equator on your drive to work?

: That's an interesting theory, but no, that isn't it.  B-)

Shucks!  I could've sworn I saw something nibble at the hook!

R
R

Moisture can also (temporarily) do it, although it's less likely with the
smaller floppies, since mylar expands when hydrated.  This is why the =
smaller
floppies can have much higher data densities (fewer mechanical problems).
--=20
#include <standard_disclaimer.h>
 _
Kevin D Quitt  USA 91351-4454           96.37% of all statistics are made=
 up
Per the FCA, this email address may not be added to any commercial mail =
list

Ron Hunsinger (hns...@sirius.com) wrote:

: If you doubt the results, try the experiment yourself. (That's part of the
: scientific method, too.) If you want to prove that a ringing telephone
: will EVER erase a floppy disk, I suggest you get to work.

: And that's my point. Instead of sitting around pontificating about how
: "somebody" said that "someone" erased a bunch of disks/tapes/whatever, so
: it must be true, you should all try the experiment for yourself. It isn't
: hard. Try your own variations on. Let's put this fable to bed.

When doing some television alignment years back, it occured to me, the 
easiest way to determine the field strength of a magnet was to hold it to 
the screen of a television (switched on of course), and observe the video 
effects, perhaps you could be more accure using a TV test generator, and 
a camera on a tripod to measure the effects.


-- 
Eric Gallas   Toronto, Canada                    bb...@torfree.net
"Dieser alte Heilige hat in seinem Walde noch nichts davon gehoert,
das Gott todt ist."           - Nietzsche, Also Sprach Zarathustra

In <DxMFKr.Fz....@torfree.net> bb...@torfree.net (Eric Gallas)
writes: 

>When doing some television alignment years back, it occured to me, the

>easiest way to determine the field strength of a magnet was to hold it
to 
>the screen of a television (switched on of course), and observe the
video 
>effects, perhaps you could be more accure using a TV test generator,
and 
>a camera on a tripod to measure the effects.

Yes, you can do this with a VGA color monitor.  A strong magnet will
lightly magnetize the dot mask, causing lingering color aberations. 
Yes, they eventually go away, that's what the degausing coil is for. 

Andrew Grygus  -  California Republic
-------------------------------------
Resist Microsoft!  

In article <tsw-060996...@cypher.3do.com>,
Tom Watson <t...@3do.com> wrote:
>
>My experience many moons ago (over 20 years!) was putting a 9 track tape
>in the back seat of my VW bug.  The combination of heat generated (it was
>a grey colored car), and the fact that the starter motor is VERY close to
>where the tape was sitting for over a week, caused the tape to be
>unserviceable.  I got very angry, and decided that the best place for 9
>track tapes was UNDER the seat where it was both cooler, and farther away
>from the starter motor.  I never had problems after that.

I don't know about cooler.  The heater vents in a bug are down by the
floor under the back seat.  The air coming out of them can be hot enough
to melt the plastic extra bits on the seat belt (not the belt itself - the
plastic covers on the buckles).

John

-- 
John Winters.  Wallingford, Oxon, England.

Can you believe that the current PC Magazine has on it's "Abort, Retry, Fail?"
page the CD-drive-as-coffee-holder as fact?  I guess none of them read AFU or
AFC.
-- 
+---------+----------------------------------+--------------------------------+
| Kenneth |       kenb...@cloud9.net        | "The opinions expressed herein |
|    J.   |                                  |  are not necessarily those of  |
|  Brody  | http://www.cloud9.net/~kenbrody/ |  AdminaStar Communications."   |
+---------+----------------------------------+--------------------------------+
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