🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <4vf2rs$f...@paperboy.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk> m...@cs.nott.ac.uk (Mike Knell) writes:
>
>Obviously, it's possible that people could be so stupid as to use their
>CD drive as a cup holder, but since virtually anyone who uses a PC would
>have seen a CD player at some point, or at least would have the brain
>cells to rub together to work out that all the knobs and lights mean
>that it's *not* just a pop-out cup holder, I'm pretty damn sceptical.

	Hmmmm.  Ever work in a help desk environment for a "wide range
	of technically competent" users?   Thought not. 
>
>I dunno, but this story just screams "UL" at me..

	Probably is, but that user at least KNEW WHERE THE PC WAS!!!

In article <4vf2rs$f...@paperboy.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk>, m...@cs.nott.ac.uk
(Mike Knell) wrote:

>Evenin' all,
>A story has been circulating in the computer press and on Usenet (I've been
>told it verbally by a couple of cow-orkers as well) over the last couple
>of months, always attributed to different places (Novell and Gateway 2K have
>both been mentioned, but more often "a well-known computer manufacturer").

Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 09:44:04 -0400
From: Mac...@aol.com
To: mac...@solutions.apple.com
Subject: ;-) Cupholder?
Message-ID: [96061209432...@emout14.mail.aol.com] 

This story from:

[g.wa...@sylvania.sev.org] (George Wagner) 

This was posted on a list I'm on by FRI...@AppleLink.Apple.COM (Ogden,
Frederick) I thought the evangelist would get a kick out of it 

**********

True story from a Novell NetWire SysOp:

Caller: "Hello, is this Tech Support?"

Tech Rep: "Yes, it is. How may I help you?" 

Caller: "The cup holder on my PC is broken and I am within my warranty period.
How do I go about getting that fixed?" 

Tech Rep: "I'm sorry, but did you say a cup holder?" 

Caller: "Yes, it's attached to the front of my computer." 

Tech Rep: "Please excuse me if I seem a bit stumped, it's because I am. Did
you receive this as part of a promotional, at a trade show? How did you get
this cup holder? Does it have any trademark on it?" 

Caller: "It came with my computer, I don't know anything about a promotional.
It just has '4X' on it."

At this point the Tech Rep had to mute the caller, because he couldn't stand
it. The caller had been using the load drawer of the CD-ROM drive as a cup
holder, and snapped it off the drive. 

________________
Do you believe in Macintosh? Learn how to help the cause by subscribing to the
"EvangeList" listserver! Send email to: [evang...@macway.com] or go to:
[http://www.solutions.apple.com/ListAdmin/].

-- 
Joshua Hill
jos...@mail.utexas.edu
http://www.ece.utexas.edu/~hill
"Never put off till tomorrow what can be done just as well day after tomorrow"

Lon Stowell (lsto...@pyrtech.mis.pyramid.com) wrote:
: In article <4vf2rs$f...@paperboy.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk> m...@cs.nott.ac.uk (Mike Knell) writes:
: >
: >Obviously, it's possible that people could be so stupid as to use their
: >CD drive as a cup holder, but since virtually anyone who uses a PC would
: >have seen a CD player at some point, or at least would have the brain
: >cells to rub together to work out that all the knobs and lights mean
: >that it's *not* just a pop-out cup holder, I'm pretty damn sceptical.
: 
: 	Hmmmm.  Ever work in a help desk environment for a "wide range
: 	of technically competent" users?   Thought not. 

You mean like the people who are having problems with a program (back in 
the pre-HD days) and you ask them to send in a copy of the disk, and you
end up receiving a Xerox(tm) copy of the disk?  (Seen it first hand, not
FOF material.)

-- 
+---------+----------------------------------+--------------------------------+
| Kenneth |       kenb...@cloud9.net        | "The opinions expressed herein |
|    J.   |                                  |  are not necessarily those of  |
|  Brody  | http://www.cloud9.net/~kenbrody/ |  AdminaStar Communications."   |
+---------+----------------------------------+--------------------------------+
GM/CS (ver 2.1) d-- H+() s+++:+> !g p? au+ a w+@ v>+ C++$(+++) UACS?++++$
    UL++++ P+ L+(++) 3- E- N++>+ K(---) W++$ M-- V(-) -po+ Y+ t+ !5 j++ R
    G? tv+ b+ !D B->? e+>++ u+@ h->++--- f>+ r++>+++ n---(+) y+(*)>++++

In article <4vkijd$i...@cloud9.net>, Kenneth Brody <kenb...@cloud9.net> wrote:
>
>You mean like the people who are having problems with a program (back in 
>the pre-HD days) and you ask them to send in a copy of the disk, and you
>end up receiving a Xerox(tm) copy of the disk?  (Seen it first hand, not
>FOF material.)
>

  ...or a woman I used to know who was writing documentation back in teh
days when 5.25" disks were the norm, and had to add a warning in the
install instructions "Do not remove diskette from black square protective
sleeve" after at least one person had tried...  

In article <joshuah-2208...@news.cc.utexas.edu>,
jos...@mail.utexas.edu (Joshua Hill) wrote:

> In article <4vf2rs$f...@paperboy.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk>, m...@cs.nott.ac.uk
> (Mike Knell) wrote:
> 
> >Evenin' all,
> >A story has been circulating in the computer press and on Usenet (I've been
> >told it verbally by a couple of cow-orkers as well) over the last couple
> >of months, always attributed to different places (Novell and Gateway 2K have
> >both been mentioned, but more often "a well-known computer manufacturer").

Old, old news.  This was posted on rec.humor.funny almost a month ago.  No
need for followups.

-- 
Tom Watson
t...@3do.com         (Home: t...@johana.com)

kenb...@cloud9.net (Kenneth Brody) wrote:

>Lon Stowell (lsto...@pyrtech.mis.pyramid.com) wrote:
>: In article <4vf2rs$f...@paperboy.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk> m...@cs.nott.ac.uk (Mike Knell) writes:
>: >
>: >Obviously, it's possible that people could be so stupid as to use their
>: >CD drive as a cup holder, but since virtually anyone who uses a PC would
>: >have seen a CD player at some point, or at least would have the brain
>: >cells to rub together to work out that all the knobs and lights mean
>: >that it's *not* just a pop-out cup holder, I'm pretty damn sceptical.
>: 
>: 	Hmmmm.  Ever work in a help desk environment for a "wide range
>: 	of technically competent" users?   Thought not. 

>You mean like the people who are having problems with a program (back in 
>the pre-HD days) and you ask them to send in a copy of the disk, and you
>end up receiving a Xerox(tm) copy of the disk?  (Seen it first hand, not
>FOF material.)

Newbie to AFU, not sure if this is on topic (haven't read FAQ, but
plan to), however, this reminded me of something similar which I also
witnessed firsthand.

I was a student aide in my college's computer lab back in '88, long
before OCR technology and scanners were common. A student called me
over to help him. His English teacher was encouraging people to
prepare their essays on computer, so he had carefully written out his
first draft on paper and was trying to insert the piece of paper into
the floppy drive so that the computer could "read" it. He had no idea
why the computer was not displaying his essay on the screen. 

--Morgan Dhu

****************************************************************************
They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't
a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I
wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up
because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I
didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by
that time there was no one left to speak up.
        - attributed to Pastor Martin Niemoller
****************************************************************************

dwal...@wam.umd.edu (His Lordship) writes:

>In article <4vkijd$i...@cloud9.net>, Kenneth Brody <kenb...@cloud9.net> wrote:
>>
>>You mean like the people who are having problems with a program (back in 
>>the pre-HD days) and you ask them to send in a copy of the disk, and you
>>end up receiving a Xerox(tm) copy of the disk?  (Seen it first hand, not
>>FOF material.)
>>

>  ...or a woman I used to know who was writing documentation back in teh
>days when 5.25" disks were the norm, and had to add a warning in the
>install instructions "Do not remove diskette from black square protective
>sleeve" after at least one person had tried...  

Recently I was called by someone with a 3.5" disk that wasn't readable, on
the disk was a Post-it note which he hadn't removed.

________________________________________________________________________________
  Jan van den Broek       -----_____   In remembrance of Eustachius Warszebald
  balg...@xs4all.nl                -----_____  Herdenkt Eustachius Warszebald
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lon Stowell wrote:
>         Hmmmm.  Ever work in a help desk environment for a "wide range
>         of technically competent" users?   Thought not.
> >
> >I dunno, but this story just screams "UL" at me..
> 
>         Probably is, but that user at least KNEW WHERE THE PC WAS!!!

You mean the PC isn't the thing that looks like a TV?  Oh, by the
way, I have this peripheral under my desk, that's the part that's
making the funny noise.

In article <tsw-230896...@cypher.3do.com>,
Tom Watson <t...@3do.com> wrote:
>In article <joshuah-2208...@news.cc.utexas.edu>,
>jos...@mail.utexas.edu (Joshua Hill) wrote:
>
>> In article <4vf2rs$f...@paperboy.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk>, m...@cs.nott.ac.uk
>> (Mike Knell) wrote:
>> 
>> >Evenin' all,
>> >A story has been circulating in the computer press and on Usenet (I've been
>> >told it verbally by a couple of cow-orkers as well) over the last couple
>> >of months, always attributed to different places (Novell and Gateway 2K have
>> >both been mentioned, but more often "a well-known computer manufacturer").
>
>Old, old news.  This was posted on rec.humor.funny almost a month ago.  No
>need for followups.

Well, nooo.. I was more interested in the story *as a UL* than the story
itself. That it's "old news" is obvious to anyone with half a brain, but
the interesting thing about the story is the way in which it's is being 
reproduced as *gospel* in so many allegedly authoritative computer rags,
and attributed to so many different sources.

Most ULs are "old news" - I'm interested in this piece of old news as a
new UL. Or something.

Mike


-- 
Computing Officer, Dept. of Computer Science, The University of Nottingham, UK
 Tel. (0115) 9514204 -- Fax (0115) 9514254 -- http://www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~mpk/
                 Mr. Tony Blair! You *are* a spherical loony!

Mike Knell wrote:
> A story has been circulating in the computer press and on Usenet (I've been
> told it verbally by a couple of cow-orkers as well) over the last couple
> of months, always attributed to different places (Novell and Gateway 2K have
> both been mentioned, but more often "a well-known computer manufacturer").

Yeah.  The ULish part is that the company always mutates, but the 
essential elements of "the plot" remain in place, e.g. the tech
pressing the mute button, so he can laugh.

> Obviously, it's possible that people could be so stupid as to use their
> CD drive as a cup holder, but since virtually anyone who uses a PC would
> have seen a CD player at some point, or at least would have the brain
> cells to rub together to work out that all the knobs and lights mean
> that it's *not* just a pop-out cup holder, I'm pretty damn sceptical.
> 
> I dunno, but this story just screams "UL" at me..

Having worked the phones, I truly enjoyed this story the first time I
heard it ... but then I sat there looking at the minitower on my desk
and realized that *every CD-ROM drive* has this logo on the front that
says 
     compact
     d i s c

... and, after all, the CD player is several times more common than
the CD-ROM drive.  I hear you don't even need a computer to run one ...

Again, having been on the other side of the phone from the users, I
am extremely tempted to believe them capable of the most atrocious
depths of misconstruction.  But that doesn't mean I believe EVERY
story.  Sometimes we tell them to each other, just to be mean, you
know.  ;-)

Dan "Now I manage the surfer for a land" Hartung

A bunch of people wrote:

>>>You mean like the people who are having problems with a program 
>>>and you ask them to send in a copy of the disk, and you
>>>end up receiving a Xerox(tm) copy of the disk?  
>>>
>>
>>...or a woman I used to know who was writing documentation 
>>and had to add a warning in the install instructions "Do not remove 
>>diskette from black square protective sleeve" after at least one 
>>person had tried...  
>
>Recently I was called by someone with a 3.5" disk that wasn't 
>readable, on the disk was a Post-it note which he hadn't removed.
>

While I can't recall the date, and I'm *pretty* sure it was the Wall 
Street Journal, there was a fairly recent article about some of the
calls received at the major Help Desks.

Things like:

 - My keyboard doesn't have an "ANY" key. What do I do?

 - I keep pointing this thing at the screen and pressing the button, 
   but nothing happens. (User thought mouse was remote control)

 - I keep stepping on the button on the foot control but nothing
   happens. (User thought mouse was simliar to sewing machine control)

 - When the Customer Service rep mentioned that the information the user
   wanted was in the manual, the reply was "Are you serious? I spent 
   over $2000 for this computer! Now you expect me to read the manual?"

And a cartoon I remember seeing a few years back: It pictured a man
in 'business dress' (tie, etc) standing on a planet next to a little
alien. The alien says to the man "Think back. Which keys did you press?"

 

In article <4vpke4$4...@news.xs4all.nl>, balg...@xs4all.nl () writes:
>>>You mean like the people who are having problems with a program (back in 
>>>the pre-HD days) and you ask them to send in a copy of the disk, and you
>>>end up receiving a Xerox(tm) copy of the disk?  (Seen it first hand, not
>>>FOF material.)

>Recently I was called by someone with a 3.5" disk that wasn't readable, on
>the disk was a Post-it note which he hadn't removed.

How about the one I saw recently: the user had attached the 3.5" disk
label flat on the front of the disk, including the edge of the "sliding
door", effectively taping it shut.

>________________________________________________________________________________
>  Jan van den Broek       -----_____   In remembrance of Eustachius Warszebald
>  balg...@xs4all.nl                -----_____  Herdenkt Eustachius Warszebald
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-* Stephen *-
Stephen Posey                  --           University of New Orleans
Email: S...@uno.edu             --        WWW: http://www.uno.edu/~slp
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"But is all this true?" said Brutha. 
Didactylos shrugged, "Could be.  Could be.  We are here and it is now. 
The way I see it is, after that everything tends toward guesswork." 
                                    -- Terry Pratchett: _Small Gods_

balg...@xs4all.nl wrote:
> 
> dwal...@wam.umd.edu (His Lordship) writes:
> 
> >  ...or a woman I used to know who was writing documentation back in teh
> >days when 5.25" disks were the norm, and had to add a warning in the
> >install instructions "Do not remove diskette from black square protective
> >sleeve" after at least one person had tried...
> 
> Recently I was called by someone with a 3.5" disk that wasn't readable, on
> the disk was a Post-it note which he hadn't removed.
> 

I've done this before:

Late at night, having problems installing software and crammed a 5 1/4" disk
into a drive with (unknowing) a sticky note on it.  
	"Can't read this f***ing disk.  Stupid computer"
	Put another disk in.
	"Can't read it either"
	Sector editor, disk dumps....and several Cokes later...finally give up
and went to bed.
	Next day, after having thought about it for a while, decided that there
might be dust in the drive, and blew the dust out---and the sticky note.  The
disk drive has worked fine since.  :-)

Lon Stowell (lsto...@pyrtech.mis.pyramid.com) wrote:
: In article <4vf2rs$f...@paperboy.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk> m...@cs.nott.ac.uk (Mike Knell) writes:
: >
: >Obviously, it's possible that people could be so stupid as to use their
: >CD drive as a cup holder, but since virtually anyone who uses a PC would
: >have seen a CD player at some point, or at least would have the brain
: >cells to rub together to work out that all the knobs and lights mean
: >that it's *not* just a pop-out cup holder, I'm pretty damn sceptical.

I'm inclined to think that this was created from someone's imagination
as well.  One point, though...  I currently own 3 CD players, and none
of them have loading trays like those commonly found on PCs.  So the
fact that they've probably seen and used CD players would not necessarily
tip them off.  Posessing more brain cells than fingers would, however,
be sufficient under most circumstances.

: 	Hmmmm.  Ever work in a help desk environment for a "wide range
: 	of technically competent" users?   Thought not. 

Yes.  Every time I think "nobody could be THAT stupid", I think back
to my days at the Boston U. help desk.

Tom "I have about 100Mb of data I need to download, and my modem
runs at 300 baud.  How long should this take?" Harrington

--
Tom Harrington ------- t...@rmii.com ------- http://rainbow.rmii.com/~tph
 "PS. All spelling and gramatical errors in the above piece of writing
  were 100% and completely intentional so help me Gaia." -Bob Allisat
-> Fractal Kit:  http://rainbow.rmii.com/~tph/fractalkit/fractal.html <-

In <4vsa8v$c...@news.usit.net> bass...@usit.net writes: 

>Uh, Dan... FWIW, my CD-ROM drive has no logo on it.  Nothing
>at all identifies it as a CD-ROM.  Does this mean I can
>start using it for a mug holder as well?

Actually, this whole thing was probably started by a help desk guy who
used it that way so the open manuals piled on his desk wouldn't keep
pushing his cup overboard.  Having examined a number of these, I find
most are sturdy enough for this service.

Andrew Grygus  -  California Republic
-------------------------------------
Resist Microsoft!

> - When the Customer Service rep mentioned that the information the user
>   wanted was in the manual, the reply was "Are you serious? I spent 
>   over $2000 for this computer! Now you expect me to read the manual?"

I can't believe that this made it into anything about 'weird customer
service' calls.  Man, I deal with this every day... several times a
day. (I work at a major computer retailer as a computer tech -
supposed to do installs and stuff, but unfortunately I have a phone
near me, so I get any computer calls that could be pawned off on a
'tech'..)

I once had a customer threaten to sue us because he totally wrecked
his motherboard with the chip extraction tool when he tried to remove
his SURFACE MOUNTED 486 CPU.  His reasoning was that the manual didn't
explicitly state it.

I had a customer, yesterday, complain that I wasn't speaking in
English when I asked him if he had set the jumpers on the back of the
CD-ROM to the correct position.  (He couldn't figure out what jumpers
are and thought I was using some bizzare slang).

Hmmmm.. a little off-topic, but I got to vent some of my frustrations.


 -Qrys

Dave Marulli <mar...@rdcs.kodak.com> writes:

> - My keyboard doesn't have an "ANY" key. What do I do?

OTOH, a bit of nitpicking, a lot a programs don't include the 'shift'-keys
as ANY.


________________________________________________________________________________
			       Jan van den Broek
			       balg...@xs4all.nl
	 Der fabelhafter Tony und seiner elektronischer Schnell-Imbiss
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In article <4vt178$b...@eccdb1.pms.ford.com>, tph@longhorn.uucp (Tom Harrington) writes:
 
|> Yes.  Every time I think "nobody could be THAT stupid", I think back
|> to my days at the Boston U. help desk.

Uh-huh.

I worked at a DoD Research organization where I saw stuff that made the
typical freshman look quite bright.

One scientist (GS-15 or so, PhD) had his secretary routinely log into
his account for him and print out his mail so he could read it.

Another guy comes to my office and says: "I keep getting this
"Out of Memory Error" .... I tried delting a buncha files, but it didn't
seem to help much....

Billy Chambless (bi...@cast.msstate.edu) wrote:

: Another guy comes to my office and says: "I keep getting this
: "Out of Memory Error" .... I tried delting a buncha files, but it didn't
: seem to help much....

I've actually used systems where that might have been a valid approach.
This was on an old LTX analog IC test system (the model "DX/90" rings a
bell, but I could be wrong); I think it was based on some ancient Control 
Data hardware, but it's been a few years.  Anyway, once the hard drive 
filled up, most common commands became disabled, giving "disk full" 
errors.  When this happened, you couldn't do *anything* with the
system until you removed a few files.  Including, as it happened, 
deleting files.  So you'd get an error message saying something like 
"Cannot delete file.  Disk full."  At which point the mind would 
boggle briefly at what to do next.  We had two of these beasts 
networked together somehow, and it was a good thing, too, or I 
don't know how we'd ever have recovered from full hard drives.

--
Tom Harrington ------- t...@rmii.com ------- http://rainbow.rmii.com/~tph
   "Welcome to the real world - an interesting place to visit, but I
                 refuse to live there." -Andy Rozmiarek
-> Fractal Kit:  http://rainbow.rmii.com/~tph/fractalkit/fractal.html <-

Andrew Grygus wrote,
>Actually, this whole thing was probably started by a help desk guy 

I agree.

When I first heard the story, it was just another of those "luser tales."
Boring, really, since they are all about the same.

But I happened to be shopping for a new PC. A cow orker had told me that his
son had managed to break the CD drawer on the first day. So I was at the 
store, looking at CD drawers, to see if they are all that flimsy. (My 
ancient Matsushita drive pops out entirely, and appears to be quite sturdy.)

I found, as I mentioned before on alt.folklore.urban, that all the drawers
I examined could only be mistaken for a cup holder by a dyslexic chimpanzee.
There is a hole, but it is usually slot shaped, and most of the time much too
small for the bottom of those 6oz cups. They are also quite flimsy, and 
likely to break when bumped from the side. Someone might use them to support
their cup, but not because they *thought* it was a cup holder; rather because
they are pigs and their desks are so cluttered that there's no room for the
cup.

There are so many luser tales around, as this thread shows. I suspect that
every one of them was started by help desk people. Made up of whole cloth.
And, no, I'm not convinced by anyone who claims that it happened to them.
So I'm calling them a liar. What do they care?

Consider some of the other stories.

* the photocopy of the disk - why would the service center want a *copy*
  of a disk? If the disk is defective, they have you send it in for an
  exchange.

* the misplaced label - when I tape the slide shut, the disk won't even 
  go into the drive!

* the mouse pedal - you push a mouse around with your foot, you will see
  a pointer move on the screen. Eventually you should twig to using your
  hand...

* the refrigerator magnet - most fridge magnets aren't strong enough for
  two pieces of paper, never mind a floppy disk. And fridge magnets aren't
  likely to damage the floppy, either, as weak as they are.

* the lost password - the story of the coup in a banana republic has been
  debunked on AFU.

Many luser tales include elements of sexism - it is a female secretary 
who is having difficulties: using staples through the floppy, using her
pretty fridge magnets, confusing the computer for a dictaphone, etc.

These legends are akin to the stories we have about automobile misadventures:
of the rich foreigner who mistakes "cruise control" for an automatic pilot,
of the woman who deals with a broken gas gauge by lighting up the fueling
tube with a match, or the gas thief who siphons from the septic tank of the
motor home.

Or the legends about the telephone.

In fact, I suspect that all technological innovations spawn legends. I 
wouldn't be the least surprised to find that there are cave paintings 
which include a story of the woman who thought fire was pretty, and 
tried to hang some of it from a string around her neck...
--
 Helge "Wait til they invent a time machine!" Moulding
 h...@slc.unisys.com                         Just another guy
 http://www.geocities.com/Athens/1401       with a weird name

balg...@xs4all.nl wrote:
> 
> Dave Marulli <mar...@rdcs.kodak.com> writes:
> 
> > - My keyboard doesn't have an "ANY" key. What do I do?
> 
> OTOH, a bit of nitpicking, a lot a programs don't include the 'shift'-keys
> as ANY.
> 
I once had the job of doing the preliminary testing and documentation of
some utilities for a computer maker. When it said "Press any key to
continue" I regularly annoyed the head of software by pressing the
Shift, Alt, Caps Lock, Num Lock keys, etc. while he said "When it says
any key, it doesn't really mean it." We (I?) changed the in-house
standard to "Press the space bar to continue".

Tom Harrington (tph@longhorn.uucp) wrote:
: Billy Chambless (bi...@cast.msstate.edu) wrote:

: : Another guy comes to my office and says: "I keep getting this
: : "Out of Memory Error" .... I tried delting a buncha files, but it didn't
: : seem to help much....

: I've actually used systems where that might have been a valid approach.
: This was on an old LTX analog IC test system (the model "DX/90" rings a
: bell, but I could be wrong); I think it was based on some ancient Control 
: Data hardware, but it's been a few years.  Anyway, once the hard drive 
: filled up, most common commands became disabled, giving "disk full" 
: errors.  When this happened, you couldn't do *anything* with the
: system until you removed a few files.  Including, as it happened, 
: deleting files.  So you'd get an error message saying something like 
: "Cannot delete file.  Disk full."  At which point the mind would 
: boggle briefly at what to do next.  We had two of these beasts 
: networked together somehow, and it was a good thing, too, or I 
: don't know how we'd ever have recovered from full hard drives.

What about vanilla win 3.x?  If you've got the swap as a temporary
file that is deleted upon exiting windows, then dos activity could eat
into the space used by the swap once windows is restarted, reducing
the amount of possible swap memory.  Deleting files would make the
normal amount of swap space available again to windows.

tph@longhorn.uucp (Tom Harrington) wrote:

>Billy Chambless (bi...@cast.msstate.edu) wrote:
>
>: Another guy comes to my office and says: "I keep getting this
>: "Out of Memory Error" .... I tried delting a buncha files, but it didn't
>: seem to help much....
>
>I've actually used systems where that might have been a valid approach.
>This was on an old LTX analog IC test system (the model "DX/90" rings a
>bell, but I could be wrong); I think it was based on some ancient Control 
>Data hardware, but it's been a few years.  Anyway, once the hard drive 
>filled up, most common commands became disabled, giving "disk full" 
>errors.  When this happened, you couldn't do *anything* with the
>system until you removed a few files.  Including, as it happened, 
>deleting files.  So you'd get an error message saying something like 
>"Cannot delete file.  Disk full."  At which point the mind would 
>boggle briefly at what to do next.  We had two of these beasts 
>networked together somehow, and it was a good thing, too, or I 
>don't know how we'd ever have recovered from full hard drives.

Well, this reminds me of a problem I had to diagnose for a highly paid
professional programmer (a bit a sarcasm there).  A program (DOS/370
COBOL) abended with a strange error code.  After finding the appropriate
manual (another IBM quirk, there was no manual with ALL the error codes,
you had to find the master list to find which manual to look in), it was
"command reject" on a disk write.  After the usual flailing around with
register saves, etc., I found that the write was issued from a paragraph
which closed the file, and instructed the operator to dump (what was
that utility, DEBE?) the file.  Tracing further, it came from a WRITE...
ON SIZE ERROR GOTO statement.  So, when there was no more space in the
file, the program attempted to close the file, and the close routine did
not handle the problem gracefully.  I asked the programmer if the error
routine had been tested.  'Of course, I inserted a jump to the routine,
and it worked fine'.  I calmly pointed out that testing an error routine
in the absence of the error didn't really do the job.

>
>--
>Tom Harrington ------- t...@rmii.com ------- http://rainbow.rmii.com/~tph
>   "Welcome to the real world - an interesting place to visit, but I
>                 refuse to live there." -Andy Rozmiarek
>-> Fractal Kit:  http://rainbow.rmii.com/~tph/fractalkit/fractal.html <-

---------------
Larry McKnight
(this space unintentionally left blank.....

Helge Moulding wrote:
> 
> Andrew Grygus wrote,
> >Actually, this whole thing was probably started by a help desk guy
> 
> I agree.
> 
> When I first heard the story, it was just another of those "luser tales."
> Boring, really, since they are all about the same.
> ...
> * the photocopy of the disk - why would the service center want a *copy*
>   of a disk? If the disk is defective, they have you send it in for an
>   exchange.

I hate to tell you this, but the "photocopy of the disk" scenario has
happened at least once. To me.

I was working for a software manufacturer (email me if you really want
to know which one) in technical support. When customers called up for a
replacement disk, we would usually ask them their name & the serial
number and then look them up in the database. If they were there, we'd
send a replacement. If they weren't listed, we'd ask them to send their
copy of our software. Sure enough, one customer that I spoke with faxed
me a photocopy of the disk.


Pete
---------------------------
The opinions expressed here are not those of anyone, including myself.
No gerbils were harmed in the making of this message. Your mileage may
vary.

In <4vvdb4$6...@lex.zippo.com>, h...@slc.unisys.com (Helge Moulding) writes:
>* the refrigerator magnet - most fridge magnets aren't strong enough for
>  two pieces of paper, never mind a floppy disk. And fridge magnets aren't
>  likely to damage the floppy, either, as weak as they are.

I knew a Burroughs Field Engineer who ran into this kind of thing.  After 
being called out several times to work on the drives, he investigated a bit
deeper and found the user storing the floppy on the side of a cabinet with 
a magnet. What made it worse was that this wasn't your ordinary floppy - it
was a Burroughs specialty commonly known as a '3/6'(pronounced 'three-six')
drive.  These were rather high-density 8 inch floppies that were originally
intended to hold 5MB.  The designers had problems getting the inner 
cylinders to work, so they dropped them and ended up with an 8" floppy
holding 3MB.  The drives usually came in pairs, thus the designation 3/6.
The problem for the user is that these things came factory-formatted, and
the drives couldn't re-format them.  Once a disk was damaged, all you could
do was throw it away.  What made this really hurt was they they cost about 
$35 to $50 per disk(ouch!).

Ben
-- 
Ben Coleman tng...@mindspring.com     |
Senior Systems Analyst                |
TermNet Merchant Services, Inc.       |
Atlanta, GA                           |

In article <4vvdb4$6...@lex.zippo.com>,
Helge Moulding <h...@slc.unisys.com> wrote:
>Andrew Grygus wrote,
>>Actually, this whole thing was probably started by a help desk guy 
>
>I agree.
>

I dunno, I work in tech support.. about two years ago I walked into our little reception area 
held out a floppy and said, "I'd like the internet on my disk, please." .. seemed really 
funny at the time - now I hear people say that 3 or 4 times a day.  Sometimes users decide 
not to think, like when they're shocked that their modem has to dial before they can use 
netscape at home - or the sorry people that try to stick a floppy in the wrong way, rather 
than trying to turn it around or do anything else, they just give you a helpless look.  

>
>Consider some of the other stories.
>
>* the photocopy of the disk - why would the service center want a *copy*
>  of a disk? If the disk is defective, they have you send it in for an
>  exchange.

I can believe this.. it's a matter of mindset, if I'm a secretarial type - and I dont ever 
touch a computer, the term copy means 'xerox' .. people do absent minded stuff like that, 
the term 'copy' may have just jumped out more than the idea of what a disk is all about..

>* the refrigerator magnet - most fridge magnets aren't strong enough for
>  two pieces of paper, never mind a floppy disk. And fridge magnets aren't
>  likely to damage the floppy, either, as weak as they are.

I couldn't find any fridge magnets, and I'm not sure if a phone handset is more or less 
magnetic, but I left the handset from my fancy at&t darth vader phone on a full disk for 5 
minutes, and all the wav files I stuck on it still played ok.. I expected it to break it, 
whaddya know.. 

(anything I didn't quote I agree with..)

kevin
---
A mind is like a parachute, when it's open -
                                              - it just slows you down.

Tom Harrington (tph@longhorn.uucp) wrote:
[...]
: Data hardware, but it's been a few years.  Anyway, once the hard drive 
: filled up, most common commands became disabled, giving "disk full" 
: errors.  When this happened, you couldn't do *anything* with the
: system until you removed a few files.  Including, as it happened, 
: deleting files.  So you'd get an error message saying something like 
: "Cannot delete file.  Disk full."  At which point the mind would 
: boggle briefly at what to do next.  We had two of these beasts 
[...]

I saw this years ago with one of the first DOS-based disk compression
programs.  When the physical drive filled up (because of less that 2:1
compression) you were dead in the water.  You couldn't delete files.  I
suppose it needed a free space on the drive to write the new directory
layout, rather than reusing the same sectors?

I've also seen in MS-Windows a "low memory" error, stating that I should
try "closing a few applications" to free up some memory.  I got this error
while trying to exit Windows, and the only program running was the program
manager which refused to exit because of the error.
-- 
+---------+----------------------------------+--------------------------------+
| Kenneth |       kenb...@cloud9.net        | "The opinions expressed herein |
|    J.   |                                  |  are not necessarily those of  |
|  Brody  | http://www.cloud9.net/~kenbrody/ |  AdminaStar Communications."   |
+---------+----------------------------------+--------------------------------+
GM/CS (ver 2.1) d-- H+() s+++:+> !g p? au+ a w+@ v>+ C++$(+++) UACS?++++$
    UL++++ P+ L+(++) 3- E- N++>+ K(---) W++$ M-- V(-) -po+ Y+ t+ !5 j++ R
    G? tv+ b+ !D B->? e+>++ u+@ h->++--- f>+ r++>+++ n---(+) y+(*)>++++

In article <3224B0...@apple.com>, spo...@apple.com wrote:
> I was working for a software manufacturer (email me if you really want
> to know which one) in technical support. When customers called up for a
> replacement disk, we would usually ask them their name & the serial
> number and then look them up in the database. If they were there, we'd
> send a replacement. If they weren't listed, we'd ask them to send their
> copy of our software. Sure enough, one customer that I spoke with faxed
> me a photocopy of the disk.

I -was- asked by a local software agent (email me if you really want to
know which one) to photocopy my install diskettes, both sides, and fax
that thru to them as proof of purchase when getting an upgrade...

-- 
Peter Kerr                        bodger
School of Music                   chandler
University of Auckland NZ         neo-Luddite

Peter Kerr wrote:
> 
> In article <3224B0...@apple.com>, spo...@apple.com wrote:
> > I was working for a software manufacturer (email me if you really want
> > to know which one) in technical support. When customers called up for a
> > replacement disk, we would usually ask them their name & the serial
> > number and then look them up in the database. If they were there, we'd
> > send a replacement. If they weren't listed, we'd ask them to send their
> > copy of our software. Sure enough, one customer that I spoke with faxed
> > me a photocopy of the disk.
> 
> I -was- asked by a local software agent (email me if you really want to
> know which one) to photocopy my install diskettes, both sides, and fax
> that thru to them as proof of purchase when getting an upgrade...

Yes, that's what we did for *upgrades* too (ie: for a small fee). Fairly
common way of proving ownership, especially when the serial number is
printed on the disk somewhere. But for damaged disk replacement (ie: for
free), we always asked for the original software itself. That way, you
don't get bogus damaged disk requests from those who then end up two
working copies, one of which they sell. We just wanted to be sure that
they weren't trying to put one over on us (ok, I admit it: it was an AR
and paranoid thing to do). Anyway, the point behind my post was that we
asked for the software, but got a photocopy.

Now what we need is a story about someone who got a disk photocopy &
tried to stuff it into their floppy drive.  :-P

Pete
----------------------
The opinions expressed here are not those of anyone, including myself.
No gerbils were harmed in the making of this message. Your mileage may
vary.

In <3224B0...@apple.com> Pete Spomer <spo...@apple.com> writes: 
>
>I was working for a software manufacturer (email me if you really want
>to know which one) in technical support. When customers called up for
a
>replacement disk, we would usually ask them their name & the serial
>number and then look them up in the database. If they were there, we'd
>send a replacement. If they weren't listed, we'd ask them to send
their
>copy of our software. Sure enough, one customer that I spoke with
faxed
>me a photocopy of the disk.

What's unusual about that?  I have been required to send photocopys of
the disks by both Novell and SCO when ordering upgrades.  Several other
companies too, but I don't remember them by name.  

Andrew Grygus  -  California Republic
-------------------------------------
Resist Microsoft!

Pete Spomer (spo...@apple.com) wrote:
: > ...
: > * the photocopy of the disk - why would the service center want a *copy*
: >   of a disk? If the disk is defective, they have you send it in for an
: >   exchange.
: 
: I hate to tell you this, but the "photocopy of the disk" scenario has
: happened at least once. To me.
: 

I know when I was ordering upgrades of our Novell Netware, we routinely
photocopied the serialized 1st floppy (a serial # printed on the label of
floppy #1) and sent that copy in as proof of ownership before being sold
the upgrade....  So it has been done intentionally before.

  -- 
+-----------------------------------------+-------------------------------+
| Charles Robinson      Mpls, Minnesota   | "You can't have everything... |
| email: char...@visi.com                |  where would you put it?"     |
+-----------------------------------------+-------------------------------+

ksch...@darkwing.uoregon.edu (Kevin Leslie Schaper) wrote:

>I couldn't find any fridge magnets, and I'm not sure if a phone handset is more or less 
>magnetic, but I left the handset from my fancy at&t darth vader phone on a full disk for 5 
>minutes, and all the wav files I stuck on it still played ok.. I expected it to break it, 
>whaddya know.. 

_Some_ phones, mostly older ones, are "magnetic".  They use the old
electromagnet and clapper mechanism to make the ring you hear.  Newer
phones, though, tend to have electronic ringers.  I don't know for
sure, but I suspect that these phones use (nonmagnetic?) piezo
elements for the ringers as opposed to standard (usually magnetic)
diaphragm speakers.

The point is, some phones have a stronger magnetic field than others.
These phones are still around, and even still for sale.  If you can
find one, make a disk of stuff whose contents you're familiar with,
put it under the phone, and call that phone (or get someone else to
call it).  A few rings should be enough to scramble the data beyond
any hope of recovery.

= Warren -- http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent

tph@longhorn.uucp (Tom Harrington) wrote:
>Data hardware, but it's been a few years.  Anyway, once the hard drive 
>filled up, most common commands became disabled, giving "disk full" 
>errors.  When this happened, you couldn't do *anything* with the
>system until you removed a few files.  Including, as it happened, 
>deleting files.  So you'd get an error message saying something like 
>"Cannot delete file.  Disk full."  At which point the mind would 

And Windows'95 still has the same "feature" - at least if you don't
set it to delete files completely rather than move them to the recycle
bin.

Try deleting a large file (say a 50MB animation) from a disk with only
a few hundred KB free - you'll get the same error message!

Or try starting Word's (or any MS applications) setup program and ask
it to remove some components - the first thing it says is "Checking
for necessary disk space"...


--
Jan Eric Andersson [E-Mail: jan...@login.eunet.no]
Oslo, Norway       [http://login.eunet.no/~janeand]

p.k...@auckland.ac.nz (Peter Kerr) wrote:
>I -was- asked by a local software agent (email me if you really want to
>know which one) to photocopy my install diskettes, both sides, and fax
>that thru to them as proof of purchase when getting an upgrade...

Did the disks actually work afterwards? Wouldn't the blast of static
from the copier do nasty things to them?

--
Jan Eric Andersson [E-Mail: jan...@login.eunet.no]
Oslo, Norway       [http://login.eunet.no/~janeand]

In <32257e20....@news.cyberport.com> tan...@cyberport.com
(Warren Young) writes: 
>
>ksch...@darkwing.uoregon.edu (Kevin Leslie Schaper) wrote:
>
>>I couldn't find any fridge magnets, and I'm not sure if a phone
handset is more or less 
>>magnetic, but I left the handset from my fancy at&t darth vader phone
on a full disk for 5 
>>minutes, and all the wav files I stuck on it still played ok.. I
expected it to break it, 
>>whaddya know.. 
>
>_Some_ phones, mostly older ones, are "magnetic".  They use the old
>electromagnet and clapper mechanism to make the ring you hear.  Newer
>phones, though, tend to have electronic ringers.
     . . . 
>The point is, some phones have a stronger magnetic field than others.
>These phones are still around, and even still for sale.  If you can
>find one, make a disk of stuff whose contents you're familiar with,
>put it under the phone, and call that phone (or get someone else to
>call it).  A few rings should be enough to scramble the data beyond
>any hope of recovery.

The old clapper bell phones would definitely do this.  Refrigerator
magnets have to be really powerful to do it because a reversing (AC)
field is far more effective as a demagnitizer.  Of course >>my<<
refrigerator magnets will do it just fine - they come from dot matrix
printheads, floppy disk drive motors, laser printer developers and
other sources of really high intensity magnetism.  Do watch out for
those floppy rotors though.  Once you let one suck down to your
'fridge, you're going to have to pry it off with a screwdriver.  

Andrew Grygus  -  California Republic
-------------------------------------
Resist Microsoft!

In article <32257e20....@news.cyberport.com>, tan...@cyberport.com
(Warren Young) wrote:

> _Some_ phones, mostly older ones, are "magnetic".  They use the old
> electromagnet and clapper mechanism to make the ring you hear.  Newer
> phones, though, tend to have electronic ringers.  I don't know for
> sure, but I suspect that these phones use (nonmagnetic?) piezo
> elements for the ringers as opposed to standard (usually magnetic)
> diaphragm speakers.
> 
> The point is, some phones have a stronger magnetic field than others.
> These phones are still around, and even still for sale.  If you can
> find one, make a disk of stuff whose contents you're familiar with,
> put it under the phone, and call that phone (or get someone else to
> call it).  A few rings should be enough to scramble the data beyond
> any hope of recovery.

I do have such a phone, I did make a disk full of known good data, I did
even go so far as to compute a checksum for the disk (32-bit CRC), and I
did leave that floppy under the phone for a couple of weeks, the phone did
ring (many times).

The result? Nada. No affect on the floppy AT ALL.

-Ron Hunsinger

Another (alledgedly) true tech support story.  A friend of mine used to
work at Stream International in Beaverton, OR, which is a contractor which
provides tech support for Microsoft.  (They answer the phones "Microsoft",
not "Stream".)  According to him, this really heappened.


A luser calls tech support, obviously scared shitless, and apologizing
profusely to the technician--begging for Microsoft's mercy, stating his 
willingness to cooperate fully, and promising "not to do it again".

After some conversation, the situation became clear.

1)  The luser had a pirated copy of Windoze 95.
2)  An application had crashed, producing the all-to-familiar "Illegal
    Operation" dialog box.
3)  Luser apparently thought that this error meant that he had been caught
    red-handed in his knavery (rather than it being a processor
    exception) and that furthermore, his computer had NOTIFIED MICROSOFT,
    and that the police/a summons officer/somebody else nasty was likely
    on the way.
4)  By calling tech support and confessing his misdeed, he thought he
    could mitigate the situation.


Scott "I wonder if he had the Registration Wizard enabled" Johnson


-- 
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|Scott Johnson -- Professional (sometimes) SW Engineer and all-purpose Geek|
|I don't speak for nobody but myself, which everyone else is thankful for  |
\--------------------------------------------------------------------------/

hns...@sirius.com (Ron Hunsinger) wrote:

>> _Some_ phones, mostly older ones, are "magnetic".  They use the old
>
>I do have such a phone, I did make a disk full of known good data, I did
>even go so far as to compute a checksum for the disk (32-bit CRC), and I
>did leave that floppy under the phone for a couple of weeks, the phone did
>ring (many times).
>
>The result? Nada. No affect on the floppy AT ALL.

I guess you were just lucky.  Or, the electromagnet in the phone is
weaker than ones I'm familiar with.  This really doesn't prove
anything, you know.

= Warren -- http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent

In article <32290bc2...@news.cyberport.com>, tan...@cyberport.com
(Warren Young) wrote:

> hns...@sirius.com (Ron Hunsinger) wrote:
> 
> >> _Some_ phones, mostly older ones, are "magnetic".  They use the old
> >
> >I do have such a phone, I did make a disk full of known good data, I did
> >even go so far as to compute a checksum for the disk (32-bit CRC), and I
> >did leave that floppy under the phone for a couple of weeks, the phone did
> >ring (many times).
> >
> >The result? Nada. No affect on the floppy AT ALL.
> 
> I guess you were just lucky.  Or, the electromagnet in the phone is
> weaker than ones I'm familiar with.  This really doesn't prove
> anything, you know.

It doesn't? What would you think constitutes proof?

I had a hypothesis ("a ringing telephone can erase a floppy disk"), I
designed and experiment to test the hypothesis ("make a floppy with known
data, use a disk utility to compute a CRC of the entire disk, make sure I
have one of the original phones with the electromagnetic ringer, put the
floppy under the phone, let it ring many times, verify that the CRC is
unchanged, load the programs off the floppy, run them"), I performed the
experiment and observed the results.

Isn't that the scientific method? What method would you prefer?

-Ron Hunsinger

Christopher Donnell <ava...@getnet.com> wrote:

>> - When the Customer Service rep mentioned that the information the user
>>   wanted was in the manual, the reply was "Are you serious? I spent 
>>   over $2000 for this computer! Now you expect me to read the manual?"
>
>I can't believe that this made it into anything about 'weird customer
>service' calls.

On a side note, I had an even worse nightmare.  A fellow *programmer* told
me essentially the same thing, in all seriousness!  I was trying to
introduce a new program to the shop where we worked.  This was a tool we'd
need to use just about every day as part of our build process.  I gave him
a brief verbal introduction and left him with the manuals.  He later asked
me another question, which I explained, and another, and...  I finally
asked if he'd tried looking in the manuals at all?

"No, of course not.  It's a waste of effort for everyone to be an expert
with the same program.  You're the expert, so I come to you with my
questions."

Arrrrgghhhhhhh!

-- 
----------------------------------------<Steven King, ve...@pshrink.chi.il.us>--
Welcome to alt.folklore.computers, where subject drift is a highly refined
art form.

In <50iq18$n...@pshrink.chi.il.us> "Steven King" <ve...@pshrink.chi.il.us> writes:


>"No, of course not.  It's a waste of effort for everyone to be an expert
>with the same program.  You're the expert, so I come to you with my
>questions."

>Arrrrgghhhhhhh!

He's actually correct.  The manuals are only in case you get hit by a bus.
Or resign.  
Or get fired.



-- 
    / \      Left Reverend Nigh Invulnerable            fn...@panix.com
   /<0>\     Church of the Subverted Paradigm
  /     \                                               God Plays Dice!
 /_______\    --> FIVE TONS OF FLAX <--          Death To All Fanatics! 

Ron Hunsinger <hns...@sirius.com>:

>It doesn't? What would you think constitutes proof?
>
>I had a hypothesis ("a ringing telephone can erase a floppy disk"), I
>designed and experiment to test the hypothesis ("make a floppy with known
>data, use a disk utility to compute a CRC of the entire disk, make sure I
>have one of the original phones with the electromagnetic ringer, put the
>floppy under the phone, let it ring many times, verify that the CRC is
>unchanged, load the programs off the floppy, run them"), I performed the
>experiment and observed the results.
>
>Isn't that the scientific method? What method would you prefer?

One application of the scientific method, alone and in of itself, does
not generate proof.

They were mistaken, however, as you did prove something. Namely: a ringing
telephone will not erase a floppy disk 100% of the time. Now if you want to
prove that a ringing telephone will never erase a floppy disk, or will fail
to 90% of the time, I suggest you get to work.

b

In article <50k5b8$3...@eve.speakeasy.org>, bri...@speakeasy.org (Brian
Raiter) wrote:

> One application of the scientific method, alone and in of itself, does
> not generate proof.
> 
> They were mistaken, however, as you did prove something. Namely: a ringing
> telephone will not erase a floppy disk 100% of the time. Now if you want to
> prove that a ringing telephone will never erase a floppy disk, or will fail
> to 90% of the time, I suggest you get to work.

I didn't try the experiment only once. I repeated it with several magnets
(fridge magnets, loudspeaker magnets, the magnetic latches on my
cupboards, and the telephone). I repeated the same experiment many times -
I left the floppy under the phone for a week, occasionally repositioning
the phone over it to try other "hot spots".

This is a standard Western Electric Bell telephone - the model most likely
to cause damage. I see no reason to believe other phones of the same model
would perform differently. I see no reason to believe other models would
behave worse.

If you doubt the results, try the experiment yourself. (That's part of the
scientific method, too.) If you want to prove that a ringing telephone
will EVER erase a floppy disk, I suggest you get to work.

And that's my point. Instead of sitting around pontificating about how
"somebody" said that "someone" erased a bunch of disks/tapes/whatever, so
it must be true, you should all try the experiment for yourself. It isn't
hard. Try your own variations on. Let's put this fable to bed.

The post I was replying to said "This doesn't prove anything, you know."
If by "this" he meant "experimenting" (as I assumed he did), then he's
completely wrong. It's the only thing that does.

-Ron Hunsinger

In article <hnsngr-0409...@news.sirius.com>, hns...@sirius.com
(Ron Hunsinger) wrote:

> I didn't try the experiment only once. I repeated it with several magnets
> (fridge magnets, loudspeaker magnets, the magnetic latches on my
> cupboards, and the telephone). I repeated the same experiment many times -
> I left the floppy under the phone for a week, occasionally repositioning
> the phone over it to try other "hot spots".
> 
> This is a standard Western Electric Bell telephone - the model most likely
> to cause damage. I see no reason to believe other phones of the same model
> would perform differently. I see no reason to believe other models would
> behave worse.
> 
> If you doubt the results, try the experiment yourself. (That's part of the
> scientific method, too.) If you want to prove that a ringing telephone
> will EVER erase a floppy disk, I suggest you get to work.
> 
> And that's my point. Instead of sitting around pontificating about how
> "somebody" said that "someone" erased a bunch of disks/tapes/whatever, so
> it must be true, you should all try the experiment for yourself. It isn't
> hard. Try your own variations on. Let's put this fable to bed.

In David Pogue and Joseph Schorr's "MacWorld Mac and PowerMac Secrets,"
3rd edition, similar experiments are recounted, including fastening a
floppy to the refrigerator with a magnet all day. No damage to data was
found. Also printed is a letter from a researcher at the magnet lab at
M.I.T., where despite high magnetic fields, their floppy-failure rate was
no higher than the national average. ISBN 1-56884-791-2, page 259.

That being said, I once absentmindedly set a kitchen timer with a magnet
on its back on a pile of old floppies for several weeks. The top three
disks in the stack were not only unreadable, but could not be re-formatted
successfully. Whether this was due to the magnet or their age, I do not
know, as I did not repeat the "experiment."

-- 
Pieter "Sloppy housekeeper? Me?" Breitner

---

We love newbies here.  The thing is, we like some of the newbies as
friends, and we like others with ketchup. -Ray Depew-

----------

For the AFU FAQ:  http://www.urbanlegends.com/afu.faq/ or
E-mail mail-...@rtfm.mit.edu with "send
usenet/news.answers/folklore-faq/*" in the body of your message

> > If you doubt the results, try the experiment yourself. (That's part of
the
> > scientific method, too.) If you want to prove that a ringing telephone
> > will EVER erase a floppy disk, I suggest you get to work.

Just to add my 2 cents worth, when I used to work in the ol' repair shop,
getting my hardware internship done with, we used magnetic screwdrivers. 
At first, I said to the manager, "What, are you guys INSANE?  Magnetic
screwdrivers in a COMPUTER shop?"

He just laughed at me, and then laid his screwdriver on a 5.25' floppy. 
Then he invited me to try the disk.

No harm done.  I guess I learned my lesson.  It takes a lot stronger
magnetic field than you'd think to corrupt a floppy.
-- 

Chris Jansen

"I am that I am." - Jesus Christ
"I yam what I yam." - Popeye

In article <01bb9b46$fb08e220$a2aa...@jansenc.cch.com>, "Chris Jansen"
<jan...@cch.com> wrote:

> > > If you doubt the results, try the experiment yourself. (That's part of
> the
> > > scientific method, too.) If you want to prove that a ringing telephone
> > > will EVER erase a floppy disk, I suggest you get to work.
> 
> Just to add my 2 cents worth, when I used to work in the ol' repair shop,
> getting my hardware internship done with, we used magnetic screwdrivers. 
> At first, I said to the manager, "What, are you guys INSANE?  Magnetic
> screwdrivers in a COMPUTER shop?"
> 
> He just laughed at me, and then laid his screwdriver on a 5.25' floppy. 
> Then he invited me to try the disk.
> 
> No harm done.  I guess I learned my lesson.  It takes a lot stronger
> magnetic field than you'd think to corrupt a floppy.

I had a similar situation, with someone who left a magnetic screwdriver
next to a package of SIMMS overnight. All the SIMMS died. This when 1MB
SIMMs were hundreds a piece.

James Linn
My opinions are MINE,MINE,MINE!!!

Sharing the wisdom of the ages with those of us reading
alt.folklore.urban, James...@nortel.com (James Linn) wrote:


>I had a similar situation, with someone who left a magnetic screwdriver
>next to a package of SIMMS overnight. All the SIMMS died. This when 1MB
>SIMMs were hundreds a piece.

I find it hard to believe that there is a causal correllation between
the proximity of a magnetic screwdriver and the "death" of a package
of SIMMs.  SIMMs, like almost all computer chips, are made from
silicon.  They use transistor "switches" to store "ones" and "zeros"
as accumulations of electrical charge.  They do not use magnetism,
and, to the best of my knowledge, are not affected by most magnetic
fields.

It is, I suppose, possible that large *variations* in a magnetic field
could induce some voltage in the SIMMs (such as in the printed circuit
wiring on that little circuit board).  However, I would like to point
out two things which make that extremely unlikely to be the case with
regards to being stored next to the screwdriver:

Magnetic screwdrivers are relatively weak magnets.  The weaker the
magnet, the less induced voltage.

Magnetic screwdrivers do not have *changing* magnetic fields.  A wire
just *sitting* in the same place in a magnetic field will *not* show
any induced voltage.

Even frantically waving the end of the screwdriver back and forth over
the top of the SIMM within a hairs-breadth of the surface is unlikely
to induce any measurable voltage in the SIMM wiring.

I suspect that static electricity from the body of the person who last
handled the SIMMs is a far more likely culprit.

>James Linn
>My opinions are MINE,MINE,MINE!!!

 - Rick "Miss Scarlet, in the parlor, with a Van de Graf generator" Dickinson


   Enterprise ArchiTechs    | Views expressed on topics unrelated
 http://www.eArchiTechs.com | to Lotus Notes are not those of my
  email: r...@notesguy.com   | company, and may not even be mine.

On Thu, 05 Sep 1996 00:55:47 -0700, pie...@gramercy.ios.com (Pieter D.
Breitner) wrote:
>In David Pogue and Joseph Schorr's "MacWorld Mac and PowerMac Secrets,"
>3rd edition, similar experiments are recounted, including fastening a
>floppy to the refrigerator with a magnet all day. No damage to data was
>found.=20

On the other hand, I had to remove a magnetic paper-clip holder from the =
top
drawer of my wood-topped desk because *every* time I slid a floppy over =
its
position in the drawer below, data was lost.

--=20
#include <standard_disclaimer.h>
 _
Kevin D Quitt  USA 91351-4454           96.37% of all statistics are made=
 up
Per the FCA, this email address may not be added to any commercial mail =
list

Ron Hunsinger <hns...@sirius.com>:

>In article <50k5b8$3...@eve.speakeasy.org>, bri...@speakeasy.org (Brian
>Raiter) wrote:
>
>> One application of the scientific method, alone and in of itself, does
>> not generate proof.
>> 
>> They were mistaken, however, as you did prove something. Namely: a ringing
>> telephone will not erase a floppy disk 100% of the time. Now if you want to
>> prove that a ringing telephone will never erase a floppy disk, or will fail
>> to 90% of the time, I suggest you get to work.
>
>I didn't try the experiment only once. I repeated it with several magnets
>(fridge magnets, loudspeaker magnets, the magnetic latches on my
>cupboards, and the telephone). I repeated the same experiment many times -
>I left the floppy under the phone for a week, occasionally repositioning
>the phone over it to try other "hot spots".

My apologies. Your post gave the distinct impression that you had done
the experiment once.

b

hns...@sirius.com (Ron Hunsinger) wrote:

>The post I was replying to said "This doesn't prove anything, you know."
>If by "this" he meant "experimenting" (as I assumed he did), then he's
>completely wrong. It's the only thing that does.

Nope, I meant that you had still not proven that a phone will never
erase a disk.  Granted, you proved that it's harder to erase a disk
than most people think, but that really isn't the point of the thread
where the discussion started.  I don't _think_ it is, at any rate.

= Warren -- http://www.cyberport.com/~tangent