🚀 go-pugleaf

For fans of the series or someone having even watched it a few times,
I'm sure this film was great, but judged as a film on it's own, and not
simply another, longer episode, it was mediocre at best.  Character
development was very weak, especially with the brown haired girl that
showed up near the middle of the film.  Why was she even there?

A lot of the one liners were quite painful as well, again, those of you
that saw the show had some character arc/development context to fit
those one liners into, but the to the rest of the folks phrases like "I
aim to misbehave" and the leaf in the wind stuff was shockingly cheesy.
 You knew you were supposed to feel some emotion when the pilot dude
died, but you didn't, because the character dev in the film just wasn't
there.

littlemute wrote:
> For fans of the series or someone having even watched it a few times,
> I'm sure this film was great, but judged as a film on it's own, and not
> simply another, longer episode, it was mediocre at best.  Character
> development was very weak, especially with the brown haired girl that
> showed up near the middle of the film.  Why was she even there?
>
> A lot of the one liners were quite painful as well, again, those of you
> that saw the show had some character arc/development context to fit
> those one liners into, but the to the rest of the folks phrases like "I
> aim to misbehave" and the leaf in the wind stuff was shockingly cheesy.
>  You knew you were supposed to feel some emotion when the pilot dude
> died, but you didn't, because the character dev in the film just wasn't
> there.

The movie was made for fans of the show.  It'd be like going to see a
Star Trek movie, having never watched an episode of the television
show.  If you already know the characters, you don't want to waste
plot/story time on developing characters that the audience should
already be familiar with.

I'm sorry you had to wonder who Anara (sp?) was, if that is who you are
referring to as the brown haired girl (I'm sure you don't mean River).
She was an important character and not just a plot device for the
movie.

On 10 May 2006 09:05:01 -0700, "tilvios" <toxaristhrasoe@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
>littlemute wrote:
>> For fans of the series or someone having even watched it a few times,
>> I'm sure this film was great, but judged as a film on it's own, and not
>> simply another, longer episode, it was mediocre at best.  Character
>> development was very weak, especially with the brown haired girl that
>> showed up near the middle of the film.  Why was she even there?
>>
>> A lot of the one liners were quite painful as well, again, those of you
>> that saw the show had some character arc/development context to fit
>> those one liners into, but the to the rest of the folks phrases like "I
>> aim to misbehave" and the leaf in the wind stuff was shockingly cheesy.
>>  You knew you were supposed to feel some emotion when the pilot dude
>> died, but you didn't, because the character dev in the film just wasn't
>> there.
>
>The movie was made for fans of the show.  It'd be like going to see a
>Star Trek movie, having never watched an episode of the television
>show.  If you already know the characters, you don't want to waste
>plot/story time on developing characters that the audience should
>already be familiar with.
>
>I'm sorry you had to wonder who Anara (sp?) was, if that is who you are
>referring to as the brown haired girl (I'm sure you don't mean River).
>She was an important character and not just a plot device for the
>movie.


I just watched both the film and the series and thank god I watched
the series before the film.  Anyone who went into the film "cold"
would've been instantly lost and bored.  The film relied far too much
on the audience being fans and knowing the characters and the
backstory.  The way the movie played out, kinda made a mockery of
Whedon's intro on the DVD, I think he filmed this for a ComicCon
screening, asking people to get everyone they knew, even non-fans,
into theatres to watch the film.

I was also pretty confused as to why the SHepard had left, until I got
ahold of the DarkHorse Serenity comic which fills in the blanks,
especially the fate of those blue gloved guys.

One other question, in the series pilot, the DOctor says that River
was smuggled form her "school" in that cryo container and he just
picked her up at some rendevous point, but in the film he is clearly
shown breaking her out and escaping with her fully conscious.  Did I
miss something?

Lynley

"tilvios" <toxaristhrasoe@yahoo.com> wrote in 
> 
> The movie was made for fans of the show. 

I suppose. But I saw the movie before I ever saw the show, and I thought it 
was great. However, I was lucky enough to see it in a movied theater 
COMPLETELY ALONE. I mean, there was NOBODY in the place but me. I felt like 
Howard Hughes or something. One of the most interesting and arresting movie 
experiences of my life. 

On 10 May 2006 07:45:59 -0700, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg, littlemute wrote: 

>For fans of the series or someone having even watched it a few times,
>I'm sure this film was great, but judged as a film on it's own, and not
>simply another, longer episode, it was mediocre at best.  Character
>development was very weak, especially with the brown haired girl that
>showed up near the middle of the film.  Why was she even there?
>
That was Inara, and the reason she wasn't developed is because her character is
distasteful to the media establishment. She's basically a priestess of love,
specifically, a courtesan. Wheedon had to accept a number of compromises about
glorifying a "prostitute" on the series, and I'm sure he had to make a written
agreement about what he could and could not do with the character in the movie.

She is Mal's love interest, but since his way of taking control of his life as
an outlaw, and hers, as a "space hooker" are seen by our real world culture in
very different, and perhaps hypocritcal, lights, it didn't get much play.

Basically, in the series, he was an outlaw military captain and she was a
socially *revered* whore and they had their judgments about each other, their
chosen walks of life, and the freedoms that each lifestyle represented.

It was way beyond what you can do in a mass media movie, so Wheedon just left
the newcomer audience in a fog and built on what was already established
without exposition.

>A lot of the one liners were quite painful as well, again, those of you
>that saw the show had some character arc/development context to fit
>those one liners into, but the to the rest of the folks phrases like "I
>aim to misbehave" and the leaf in the wind stuff was shockingly cheesy.
> You knew you were supposed to feel some emotion when the pilot dude
>died, but you didn't, because the character dev in the film just wasn't
>there.

No. The "leaf in the wind" stuff was just vaguely Zen and had nothing to do
with the TV series. A lot of people liked that line. I, too, hated it.


--
Zag

I thought I could organize freedom, how very
Scandinavian of me. ...Björk

On Wed, 10 May 2006 19:33:45 +0200, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg, Lynley wrote:

>On 10 May 2006 09:05:01 -0700, "tilvios" <toxaristhrasoe@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>littlemute wrote:
>>> For fans of the series or someone having even watched it a few times,
>>> I'm sure this film was great, but judged as a film on it's own, and not
>>> simply another, longer episode, it was mediocre at best.  Character
>>> development was very weak, especially with the brown haired girl that
>>> showed up near the middle of the film.  Why was she even there?
>>>
>>> A lot of the one liners were quite painful as well, again, those of you
>>> that saw the show had some character arc/development context to fit
>>> those one liners into, but the to the rest of the folks phrases like "I
>>> aim to misbehave" and the leaf in the wind stuff was shockingly cheesy.
>>>  You knew you were supposed to feel some emotion when the pilot dude
>>> died, but you didn't, because the character dev in the film just wasn't
>>> there.
>>
>>The movie was made for fans of the show.  It'd be like going to see a
>>Star Trek movie, having never watched an episode of the television
>>show.  If you already know the characters, you don't want to waste
>>plot/story time on developing characters that the audience should
>>already be familiar with.
>>
>>I'm sorry you had to wonder who Anara (sp?) was, if that is who you are
>>referring to as the brown haired girl (I'm sure you don't mean River).
>>She was an important character and not just a plot device for the
>>movie.
>
>
>I just watched both the film and the series and thank god I watched
>the series before the film.  Anyone who went into the film "cold"
>would've been instantly lost and bored.  The film relied far too much
>on the audience being fans and knowing the characters and the
>backstory.  The way the movie played out, kinda made a mockery of
>Whedon's intro on the DVD, I think he filmed this for a ComicCon
>screening, asking people to get everyone they knew, even non-fans,
>into theatres to watch the film.
>
>I was also pretty confused as to why the SHepard had left, until I got
>ahold of the DarkHorse Serenity comic which fills in the blanks,
>especially the fate of those blue gloved guys.
>
>One other question, in the series pilot, the DOctor says that River
>was smuggled form her "school" in that cryo container and he just
>picked her up at some rendevous point, but in the film he is clearly
>shown breaking her out and escaping with her fully conscious.  Did I
>miss something?
>
Yes, you missed the fact that this is all fiction and it doesn't have to be
consistent. ;^)

The continuity police and canon didn't exist before Star Trek. I frankly like
it when minor facts change a bit from episode to episode. Reminds me that it's
a story and that the writers aren't taking themselves too seriously.



--
Zag

I thought I could organize freedom, how very
Scandinavian of me. ...Björk

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic Dweeb <dbohnenberger@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "tilvios" <toxaristhrasoe@yahoo.com> wrote in 
>> 
>> The movie was made for fans of the show. 
> 
> I suppose. But I saw the movie before I ever saw the show, and I thought it 
> was great. However, I was lucky enough to see it in a movied theater 
> COMPLETELY ALONE. I mean, there was NOBODY in the place but me. I felt like 
> Howard Hughes or something. One of the most interesting and arresting movie 
> experiences of my life. 

I watched it in a rather crowded theatre with Nathan Fillion doing an
intro before the movie, and watching the audience's reaction to Wash'
death during the movie. Rather a special experience, but the fact that
I'd never been to a premiere before may also have something to do with
it.


mcv.

Lynley <lynley.james@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On 10 May 2006 09:05:01 -0700, "tilvios" <toxaristhrasoe@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>littlemute wrote:
>>> For fans of the series or someone having even watched it a few times,
>>> I'm sure this film was great, but judged as a film on it's own, and not
>>> simply another, longer episode, it was mediocre at best.  Character
>>> development was very weak, especially with the brown haired girl that
>>> showed up near the middle of the film.  Why was she even there?
>>>
>>> A lot of the one liners were quite painful as well, again, those of you
>>> that saw the show had some character arc/development context to fit
>>> those one liners into, but the to the rest of the folks phrases like "I
>>> aim to misbehave" and the leaf in the wind stuff was shockingly cheesy.
>>>  You knew you were supposed to feel some emotion when the pilot dude
>>> died, but you didn't, because the character dev in the film just wasn't
>>> there.
>>
>>The movie was made for fans of the show.  It'd be like going to see a
>>Star Trek movie, having never watched an episode of the television
>>show.  If you already know the characters, you don't want to waste
>>plot/story time on developing characters that the audience should
>>already be familiar with.
>>
>>I'm sorry you had to wonder who Anara (sp?) was, if that is who you are
>>referring to as the brown haired girl (I'm sure you don't mean River).
>>She was an important character and not just a plot device for the
>>movie.
>
>
>I just watched both the film and the series and thank god I watched
>the series before the film.  Anyone who went into the film "cold"
>would've been instantly lost and bored.  The film relied far too much
>on the audience being fans and knowing the characters and the
>backstory.  The way the movie played out, kinda made a mockery of
>Whedon's intro on the DVD, I think he filmed this for a ComicCon
>screening, asking people to get everyone they knew, even non-fans,
>into theatres to watch the film.

I didn't find it so.
I bought the film on DVD one day at Walmart having read a few mentions
of it in one of the newsgroups I read.   Didn't remember anything except
the title so I took a chance and bought it.

On the strength of the movie, I later bought the series on DVD.

Never saw the show when it was aired - didn't even know it existed -
mostly because I don't even own a TV.

>I was also pretty confused as to why the SHepard had left, until I got
>ahold of the DarkHorse Serenity comic which fills in the blanks,
>especially the fate of those blue gloved guys.
>
>One other question, in the series pilot, the DOctor says that River
>was smuggled form her "school" in that cryo container and he just
>picked her up at some rendevous point, but in the film he is clearly
>shown breaking her out and escaping with her fully conscious.  Did I
>miss something?

Basic retcon to establish why the Alliance has been hunting River and to
introduce the Operative as one evil nasty dude.
Especially to all those people who hadn't watched the series.

Although it could be that having broken her out, she was then put in
cryo and shipped out, while Simon travelled out alone and thus avoided
searchers looking for the pair of them.

I don't have my dvds at the moment, but did he say that they broke her
out via cryo, or did it say they could get her out and then she was
shipped in cryo to whatever that planet was where he boarded Serenity.

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr

On 10 May 2006 07:45:59 -0700, "littlemute" <littlemute@woodenmen.org>
wrote:

>For fans of the series or someone having even watched it a few times,
>I'm sure this film was great, but judged as a film on it's own, and not
>simply another, longer episode, it was mediocre at best.  Character
>development was very weak, especially with the brown haired girl that
>showed up near the middle of the film.  Why was she even there?

The movie was created from the ground up to be a continuation of the
television series to tie up the loose ends & it was never represented
as anything else.

This one was made for the fans & supporters of the series. Yeah, if
you haven't seen the television series you won't get the movie, but
you aren't supposed to...from beginning credits of the first episode
to the ending credits of the movie everything flowed.

I had high expectations for this movie to suck mightily, but was
pleasantly surprised.

It was also rather cool to see River turn out to be a Major
Bad-Ass(tm).

On Wed, 10 May 2006 20:54:51 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>an outlaw, and hers, as a "space hooker" are seen by our real world culture in

I think in the parlance of today's youth that would be a 'stank ho'.

Actually, she's more along the lines of a Beverly Hills high-priced
call girl a la Heidi Fleiss or the Mayflower Madam, but I just wanted
to say stank ho. :)

>No. The "leaf in the wind" stuff was just vaguely Zen and had nothing to do
>with the TV series. A lot of people liked that line. I, too, hated it.

It's been my experience that the people who usually hate that 'leaf in
the wind' line usually lead very anti-Zen lives. Is that you, Zag? ;)

On Thu, 11 May 2006 08:49:22 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,
gray.wizard@moria.mines wrote: 

>On Wed, 10 May 2006 20:54:51 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>an outlaw, and hers, as a "space hooker" are seen by our real world culture in
>
>I think in the parlance of today's youth that would be a 'stank ho'.
>
>Actually, she's more along the lines of a Beverly Hills high-priced
>call girl a la Heidi Fleiss or the Mayflower Madam, but I just wanted
>to say stank ho. :)
>
No way. Inara is MUCH more respected by her society. What she's doing isn't
even considered prostitution by the Alliance. It *is* by Mal. That's what makes
it so interesting. The society she lives in reveres her as a priestess, but the
main character has *our* sensabilities. The show seems to have the Alliance's
understanding of "companions," frequently making Mal look like an unwashed hick
in comparison. I found it the boldest, and most dangerous, thing the show did.

>>No. The "leaf in the wind" stuff was just vaguely Zen and had nothing to do
>>with the TV series. A lot of people liked that line. I, too, hated it.
>
>It's been my experience that the people who usually hate that 'leaf in
>the wind' line usually lead very anti-Zen lives. Is that you, Zag? ;)

Not specifically *anti* Zen, but I find emotion to be a useful, and
ungovernable, experience, so Zen has little appeal. If I relate to any Eastern
philosophy, it's Daoism.

Besides, the character just sounded fruity saying it. Shepard Booke could get
away with that line, not Wash! It was like Wheedon was the one speaking and not
the character. It didn't make sense and the way he delivered the line
demonstrated that. To me, it sounded like he didn't understand *why* he was
saying it. He may as well have started saying "OM."

Maybe that's why he got killed! <g>


--
Zag

I thought I could organize freedom, how very
Scandinavian of me. ...Björk

On Wed, 10 May 2006 20:58:10 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 10 May 2006 19:33:45 +0200, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg, Lynley wrote:
>
>>On 10 May 2006 09:05:01 -0700, "tilvios" <toxaristhrasoe@yahoo.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>littlemute wrote:
>>>> For fans of the series or someone having even watched it a few times,
>>>> I'm sure this film was great, but judged as a film on it's own, and not
>>>> simply another, longer episode, it was mediocre at best.  Character
>>>> development was very weak, especially with the brown haired girl that
>>>> showed up near the middle of the film.  Why was she even there?
>>>>
>>>> A lot of the one liners were quite painful as well, again, those of you
>>>> that saw the show had some character arc/development context to fit
>>>> those one liners into, but the to the rest of the folks phrases like "I
>>>> aim to misbehave" and the leaf in the wind stuff was shockingly cheesy.
>>>>  You knew you were supposed to feel some emotion when the pilot dude
>>>> died, but you didn't, because the character dev in the film just wasn't
>>>> there.
>>>
>>>The movie was made for fans of the show.  It'd be like going to see a
>>>Star Trek movie, having never watched an episode of the television
>>>show.  If you already know the characters, you don't want to waste
>>>plot/story time on developing characters that the audience should
>>>already be familiar with.
>>>
>>>I'm sorry you had to wonder who Anara (sp?) was, if that is who you are
>>>referring to as the brown haired girl (I'm sure you don't mean River).
>>>She was an important character and not just a plot device for the
>>>movie.
>>
>>
>>I just watched both the film and the series and thank god I watched
>>the series before the film.  Anyone who went into the film "cold"
>>would've been instantly lost and bored.  The film relied far too much
>>on the audience being fans and knowing the characters and the
>>backstory.  The way the movie played out, kinda made a mockery of
>>Whedon's intro on the DVD, I think he filmed this for a ComicCon
>>screening, asking people to get everyone they knew, even non-fans,
>>into theatres to watch the film.
>>
>>I was also pretty confused as to why the SHepard had left, until I got
>>ahold of the DarkHorse Serenity comic which fills in the blanks,
>>especially the fate of those blue gloved guys.
>>
>>One other question, in the series pilot, the DOctor says that River
>>was smuggled form her "school" in that cryo container and he just
>>picked her up at some rendevous point, but in the film he is clearly
>>shown breaking her out and escaping with her fully conscious.  Did I
>>miss something?
>>
>Yes, you missed the fact that this is all fiction and it doesn't have to be
>consistent. ;^)
>
>The continuity police and canon didn't exist before Star Trek. I frankly like
>it when minor facts change a bit from episode to episode. Reminds me that it's
>a story and that the writers aren't taking themselves too seriously.


I know that I was nitpicking, but I read comics for fun so I like
nitpicking continuity gaffs ;OP

Lynley

On Thu, 11 May 2006 07:18:30 -0400, Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net>
wrote:


>>I just watched both the film and the series and thank god I watched
>>the series before the film.  Anyone who went into the film "cold"
>>would've been instantly lost and bored.  The film relied far too much
>>on the audience being fans and knowing the characters and the
>>backstory.  The way the movie played out, kinda made a mockery of
>>Whedon's intro on the DVD, I think he filmed this for a ComicCon
>>screening, asking people to get everyone they knew, even non-fans,
>>into theatres to watch the film.
>
>I didn't find it so.
>I bought the film on DVD one day at Walmart having read a few mentions
>of it in one of the newsgroups I read.   Didn't remember anything except
>the title so I took a chance and bought it.
>
>On the strength of the movie, I later bought the series on DVD.
>
>Never saw the show when it was aired - didn't even know it existed -
>mostly because I don't even own a TV.

Then how did you watch the DVD ;O)
>
>>I was also pretty confused as to why the SHepard had left, until I got
>>ahold of the DarkHorse Serenity comic which fills in the blanks,
>>especially the fate of those blue gloved guys.
>>
>>One other question, in the series pilot, the DOctor says that River
>>was smuggled form her "school" in that cryo container and he just
>>picked her up at some rendevous point, but in the film he is clearly
>>shown breaking her out and escaping with her fully conscious.  Did I
>>miss something?
>
>Basic retcon to establish why the Alliance has been hunting River and to
>introduce the Operative as one evil nasty dude.
>Especially to all those people who hadn't watched the series.
>
>Although it could be that having broken her out, she was then put in
>cryo and shipped out, while Simon travelled out alone and thus avoided
>searchers looking for the pair of them.
>
>I don't have my dvds at the moment, but did he say that they broke her
>out via cryo, or did it say they could get her out and then she was
>shipped in cryo to whatever that planet was where he boarded Serenity.
>
>Xocyll


I remember him saying something along the lines that she was smuggled
out and he picked her up, implying that she was in cryo from the
beginning.

Lynley

Lynley wrote:
> On Thu, 11 May 2006 07:18:30 -0400, Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> >>I just watched both the film and the series and thank god I watched
> >>the series before the film.  Anyone who went into the film "cold"
> >>would've been instantly lost and bored.  The film relied far too much
> >>on the audience being fans and knowing the characters and the
> >>backstory.  The way the movie played out, kinda made a mockery of
> >>Whedon's intro on the DVD, I think he filmed this for a ComicCon
> >>screening, asking people to get everyone they knew, even non-fans,
> >>into theatres to watch the film.
> >
> >I didn't find it so.
> >I bought the film on DVD one day at Walmart having read a few mentions
> >of it in one of the newsgroups I read.   Didn't remember anything except
> >the title so I took a chance and bought it.
> >
> >On the strength of the movie, I later bought the series on DVD.
> >
> >Never saw the show when it was aired - didn't even know it existed -
> >mostly because I don't even own a TV.
>
> Then how did you watch the DVD ;O)

I can watch DVDs without a television.  Hint: I'm using a device that
can do this at this very moment. :)

Lynley <lynley.james@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Thu, 11 May 2006 07:18:30 -0400, Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net>
>wrote:
>
>
>>>I just watched both the film and the series and thank god I watched
>>>the series before the film.  Anyone who went into the film "cold"
>>>would've been instantly lost and bored.  The film relied far too much
>>>on the audience being fans and knowing the characters and the
>>>backstory.  The way the movie played out, kinda made a mockery of
>>>Whedon's intro on the DVD, I think he filmed this for a ComicCon
>>>screening, asking people to get everyone they knew, even non-fans,
>>>into theatres to watch the film.
>>
>>I didn't find it so.
>>I bought the film on DVD one day at Walmart having read a few mentions
>>of it in one of the newsgroups I read.   Didn't remember anything except
>>the title so I took a chance and bought it.
>>
>>On the strength of the movie, I later bought the series on DVD.
>>
>>Never saw the show when it was aired - didn't even know it existed -
>>mostly because I don't even own a TV.
>
>Then how did you watch the DVD ;O)

DVD-ROM + Monitor, the same way I watch all my dvds.
the "Reality" shows or American Idol (or spinoffs), and I count that as
a major plus.

>>>I was also pretty confused as to why the SHepard had left, until I got
>>>ahold of the DarkHorse Serenity comic which fills in the blanks,
>>>especially the fate of those blue gloved guys.
>>>
>>>One other question, in the series pilot, the DOctor says that River
>>>was smuggled form her "school" in that cryo container and he just
>>>picked her up at some rendevous point, but in the film he is clearly
>>>shown breaking her out and escaping with her fully conscious.  Did I
>>>miss something?
>>
>>Basic retcon to establish why the Alliance has been hunting River and to
>>introduce the Operative as one evil nasty dude.
>>Especially to all those people who hadn't watched the series.
>>
>>Although it could be that having broken her out, she was then put in
>>cryo and shipped out, while Simon travelled out alone and thus avoided
>>searchers looking for the pair of them.
>>
>>I don't have my dvds at the moment, but did he say that they broke her
>>out via cryo, or did it say they could get her out and then she was
>>shipped in cryo to whatever that planet was where he boarded Serenity.

>I remember him saying something along the lines that she was smuggled
>out and he picked her up, implying that she was in cryo from the
>beginning.

Well that smuggled out could just be referring to them getting her out
of the city and off world.
I'll have to wait till I get my dvds back to check.

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr

Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Thu, 11 May 2006 08:49:22 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,
>gray.wizard@moria.mines wrote: 
>
>>On Wed, 10 May 2006 20:54:51 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>an outlaw, and hers, as a "space hooker" are seen by our real world culture in
>>
>>I think in the parlance of today's youth that would be a 'stank ho'.
>>
>>Actually, she's more along the lines of a Beverly Hills high-priced
>>call girl a la Heidi Fleiss or the Mayflower Madam, but I just wanted
>>to say stank ho. :)
>>
>No way. Inara is MUCH more respected by her society. What she's doing isn't
>even considered prostitution by the Alliance. It *is* by Mal. That's what makes
>it so interesting. The society she lives in reveres her as a priestess, but the
>main character has *our* sensabilities. The show seems to have the Alliance's
>understanding of "companions," frequently making Mal look like an unwashed hick
>in comparison. I found it the boldest, and most dangerous, thing the show did.

Ya know, I sometimes got the feeling that Mal was doing it deliberately
- keeping her at a distance.

>>>No. The "leaf in the wind" stuff was just vaguely Zen and had nothing to do
>>>with the TV series. A lot of people liked that line. I, too, hated it.
>>
>>It's been my experience that the people who usually hate that 'leaf in
>>the wind' line usually lead very anti-Zen lives. Is that you, Zag? ;)
>
>Not specifically *anti* Zen, but I find emotion to be a useful, and
>ungovernable, experience, so Zen has little appeal. If I relate to any Eastern
>philosophy, it's Daoism.
>
>Besides, the character just sounded fruity saying it. Shepard Booke could get
>away with that line, not Wash! It was like Wheedon was the one speaking and not
>the character. It didn't make sense and the way he delivered the line
>demonstrated that. To me, it sounded like he didn't understand *why* he was
>saying it. He may as well have started saying "OM."

I didn't get that feel at all.
He's a pilot heading into one hell of a shitstorm when he says that.
And, like a leaf on the wind, serenity twisted and turned and soared.


The funny bit was when he said "Don't worry, I'm a leaf on the wind" and
Mal replied "But what does that mean?" in an exasperated voice.

As for getting away with silly lines, do recall that this is a guy that
plays with plastic dinosaurs at his station.

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr

<gray.wizard@moria.mines> wrote in message
news:7ue662h8eh5m7kgsuim7fk448a5fslsocm@4ax.com...
> It was also rather cool to see River turn out to be a Major
> Bad-Ass(tm).

Really? I thought that was rather simple and obvious.. I would rather
have seen her end up being some kind of psychic warrior or something.
That's the way the series seemed to be going and seemed far more interesting
to me.  Psychic powers.. reading minds, telekenisis, etc.

She's a frail little girl.  I don't care how many martial arts moves she
knows, she's not going to be single handidly kicking ass on huge,
brute men.  That's not to say that no woman can beat any man.. but
it was said in the movie she's a 90 pound woman.  She simply is
not going to have enough power to seriously hurt anyone big, strong
and with stamina.

I know women will get all in uproar over my above statement, but it's
true. People don't just get knocked out from a single punch of kick.
Watch some ultimate fighting for example, where guys are getting
pummeled repeatedly and will not submit, let alone get knocked out
cold.   Or boxing... People can take quite a bit of abuse before they
go down.  Many punches (hard) to the head included.

Her kicking everyones ass was completely laughable. Most especially
on all the reavers. What a joke.

But I know many will buy it and defend it because "fake" fighting has been
the norm in the movie industry for decades.  Where people lay each other
out with one solid punch and so forth.  That's not real at all.  Most people
have alot more stamina and can take a serious beating before they give
up.  Seriously, if anyone doubts this, you haven't seen enough REAL LIFE
fights.  Like at hockey rinks where guys each have one hand holding the
collar of the other guy, and are PUMMELING each other directly in the
face and nose, like dozens of times, before one of them finally falls.

Quoth The Raven; Jim Vieira <WhiplashrAT@wiDOT.rrDOT.com> in
<F6R8g.68099$Tf1.17413@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>
> <gray.wizard@moria.mines> wrote in message
> news:7ue662h8eh5m7kgsuim7fk448a5fslsocm@4ax.com...
>> It was also rather cool to see River turn out to be a Major
>> Bad-Ass(tm).
>
> Really? I thought that was rather simple and obvious.. I would rather
> have seen her end up being some kind of psychic warrior or something.
> That's the way the series seemed to be going and seemed far more
> interesting to me.  Psychic powers.. reading minds, telekenisis, etc.
>
> She's a frail little girl.  I don't care how many martial arts moves
> she knows, she's not going to be single handidly kicking ass on huge,
> brute men.  That's not to say that no woman can beat any man.. but
> it was said in the movie she's a 90 pound woman.  She simply is
> not going to have enough power to seriously hurt anyone big, strong
> and with stamina.
>
> I know women will get all in uproar over my above statement, but it's
> true. People don't just get knocked out from a single punch of kick.
> Watch some ultimate fighting for example, where guys are getting
> pummeled repeatedly and will not submit, let alone get knocked out
> cold.   Or boxing... People can take quite a bit of abuse before they
> go down.  Many punches (hard) to the head included.
>
> Her kicking everyones ass was completely laughable. Most especially
> on all the reavers. What a joke.
>
> But I know many will buy it and defend it because "fake" fighting has
> been the norm in the movie industry for decades.  Where people lay
> each other out with one solid punch and so forth.  That's not real at
> all.  Most people have alot more stamina and can take a serious
> beating before they give
> up.  Seriously, if anyone doubts this, you haven't seen enough REAL
> LIFE fights.  Like at hockey rinks where guys each have one hand
> holding the collar of the other guy, and are PUMMELING each other
> directly in the
> face and nose, like dozens of times, before one of them finally falls.

you do know Bruce lee was skinny and weak looking? his style allowed for 
small physiques, however those ppl using his style had to be wirery and 
honed.

-- 
Remove the _CURSEING to reply to me

Ignoranus: A person who's both stupid and an arsehole. 

"Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> once tried to test me with:

>> Really? I thought that was rather simple and obvious.. I would rather
>> have seen her end up being some kind of psychic warrior or something.
>> That's the way the series seemed to be going and seemed far more
>> interesting to me.  Psychic powers.. reading minds, telekenisis, etc.

That's what i was hoping for also

-- 

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.

>> Really? I thought that was rather simple and obvious.. I would rather
>> have seen her end up being some kind of psychic warrior or something.
>> That's the way the series seemed to be going and seemed far more
>> interesting to me.  Psychic powers.. reading minds, telekenisis, etc.

That's what I wanted to see also but I still enjoyed Serenity a lot.

-- 

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.

"Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> wrote in message 
news:4463efe9$0$15709$c30e37c6@ken-reader.news.telstra.net...

> you do know Bruce lee was skinny and weak looking?


Well, no, he wasn't.  He looked like what he was- a professional athlete.

Jim Vieira wrote:
> She's a frail little girl.  I don't care how many martial arts moves
> she knows, she's not going to be single handidly kicking ass on huge,
> brute men.  That's not to say that no woman can beat any man.. but
> it was said in the movie she's a 90 pound woman.  She simply is
> not going to have enough power to seriously hurt anyone big, strong
> and with stamina.
>


Difference in size alone is probably enough to tip the scales, regardless of 
any other factors.

I hauled my son to taekwondo lessons/tourneys for 10+ years, and although 
his instructor taught exactly that, along with the fact that in most 
confrontations the best thing to do was to either give over the wallet/purse 
or look for the first chance to RUN, some people still just didn't get it.

Over the years I saw him have to demonstrate many times to some of his 
better women students just how little their training would help them win a 
fight against someone who was much bigger/stronger, and even helped in some 
of those demonstrations, since I was pretty good sized and everyone knew I 
had no training myself.  Finally most of them would get it that the best way 
to use their training was in situations of last resort where they felt 
physically endangered was simply to try to create an opening where they 
could run like hell.

Assuming no weapons are involved, if a 100 pound woman ends up in a fight 
with a 200 pound man who's ever able to get his hands on her, odds are that 
when that happens the fight's over, even if said woman is a martial arts 
world champion, and at that point winning for her would simply be getting 
away.

-- 
chainbreaker 

>> She's a frail little girl.  I don't care how many martial arts moves
>> she knows, she's not going to be single handidly kicking ass on huge,
>> brute men.  That's not to say that no woman can beat any man.. but
>> it was said in the movie she's a 90 pound woman.  She simply is
>> not going to have enough power to seriously hurt anyone big, strong
>> and with stamina.

>Difference in size alone is probably enough to tip the scales, regardless of 
>any other factors.
>
>I hauled my son to taekwondo lessons/tourneys for 10+ years, and although 
>his instructor taught exactly that, along with the fact that in most 
>confrontations the best thing to do was to either give over the wallet/purse 
>or look for the first chance to RUN, some people still just didn't get it.

I'm no martial arts expert, but...

A human, no matter how powerful or heavy, has weak points.  You are taught
this in basic street fighting classes: go for the eyes, nose, throat,
groin, fingers, etc.  Tell me of anybody who won't go down when he's poked
in the eyes and have a knee up his nose.  Against untrained opponents,
which most confrontations usually involve, an experienced streetfighter
would kick ass, no matter how large the size differential is.  The
operative word of course is "experienced."  Ju-jitsu, or judo, teaches that
fighting isn't a force-on-force affair.  Its basic premise, using the
opponent's weight & momentum against himself, is well used in street
fighting techniques.

I'd agree, though, that in most confrontations, the best course is
avoidance, simply because of the possibility of weapons involved.  When you
have a knife or gun in play, then things get more problematic.

Bip <bop@boo.net> writes:

>>> She's a frail little girl.  I don't care how many martial arts moves
>>> she knows, she's not going to be single handidly kicking ass on huge,
>>> brute men.  That's not to say that no woman can beat any man.. but
>>> it was said in the movie she's a 90 pound woman.  She simply is
>>> not going to have enough power to seriously hurt anyone big, strong
>>> and with stamina.
>
>>Difference in size alone is probably enough to tip the scales, regardless of 
>>any other factors.
>>
>>I hauled my son to taekwondo lessons/tourneys for 10+ years, and although 
>>his instructor taught exactly that, along with the fact that in most 
>>confrontations the best thing to do was to either give over the wallet/purse 
>>or look for the first chance to RUN, some people still just didn't get it.
>
> I'm no martial arts expert, but...
>
> A human, no matter how powerful or heavy, has weak points.  You are taught
> this in basic street fighting classes: go for the eyes, nose, throat,
> groin, fingers, etc.  Tell me of anybody who won't go down when he's poked
> in the eyes and have a knee up his nose.  Against untrained opponents,

A boxer/fullcontact adversary is certainly less likely to "go down" or
"go blind with tears" if smacked in the eye or the nose, but is as
likely to be knocked out if caught by a haymaker. There is no doubt
that a small one can beat a good one if the big one is totally untrained
: the big one, however, if they get in close evens the odds very, very
rapidly.

> which most confrontations usually involve, an experienced streetfighter
> would kick ass, no matter how large the size differential is.  The
> operative word of course is "experienced."  Ju-jitsu, or judo, teaches
> that

Are invariably totally useless in a pub or crowded area where fists and bottles
travel short distances very, very quickly.

> fighting isn't a force-on-force affair.  Its basic premise, using the
> opponent's weight & momentum against himself, is well used in street
> fighting techniques.

Combined with vicious blows to unprotected parts...

>
> I'd agree, though, that in most confrontations, the best course is
> avoidance, simply because of the possibility of weapons involved.  When you
> have a knife or gun in play, then things get more problematic.

Chuck Norris would kick the knife out of their hand so that it stuck in
the ceiling .... and thats what most "Karate guys" with 1 years training
think they can do - until someone punches them on the nose of course.

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg tilvios <toxaristhrasoe@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Lynley wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 May 2006 07:18:30 -0400, Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Never saw the show when it was aired - didn't even know it existed -
>> >mostly because I don't even own a TV.
>>
>> Then how did you watch the DVD ;O)
> 
> I can watch DVDs without a television.  Hint: I'm using a device that
> can do this at this very moment. :)

I only recently got a DVD player for my TV. For ages my only DVD player
was in my PC. The problem is that most movies, including the opening
scenes of the Firefly pilot, are way too dark for my monitor, so I tend
to see mostly black. I don't think I'll have that problem with my TV.


mcv.

mcv <mcvmcv@xs4all.nl> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>In comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg tilvios <toxaristhrasoe@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Lynley wrote:
>>> On Thu, 11 May 2006 07:18:30 -0400, Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >Never saw the show when it was aired - didn't even know it existed -
>>> >mostly because I don't even own a TV.
>>>
>>> Then how did you watch the DVD ;O)
>> 
>> I can watch DVDs without a television.  Hint: I'm using a device that
>> can do this at this very moment. :)
>
>I only recently got a DVD player for my TV. For ages my only DVD player
>was in my PC. The problem is that most movies, including the opening
>scenes of the Firefly pilot, are way too dark for my monitor, so I tend
>to see mostly black. I don't think I'll have that problem with my TV.

Doesn't your dvd playing software have a brightness control?
See also the "overlay" section of the video card options under color
correction.  
You can, and I do, have the overlay at a different brightness than the
normal desktop, and that overlay applies to the movie player.
Both MSIDVD (came with the card) and PowerDvd get the brighter picture
from this for me.

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr

On Thu, 11 May 2006 14:26:00 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Besides, the character just sounded fruity saying it. Shepard Booke could get
>away with that line, not Wash! It was like Wheedon was the one speaking and not
>the character. It didn't make sense and the way he delivered the line

No, Wash said things like that a couple times in the TV series when
things got hectic when he was piloting. His character could get quite
excitable at times & those little tricks helped keep him calm & cool
when in tense situations.

What I would have found more unrealistic is if he was portrayed as the
stereotypical spaceship pilot with nerves of steel & even when being
beared down upon by 20 capital ships nothing would shake him.

Everyone has tricks & quirks to help them get through stressful
situations. Being a leaf in the wind was one of his. I thought it made
him more human.

On Thu, 11 May 2006 16:57:59 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg, Xocyll wrote:

>Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
>the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>>On Thu, 11 May 2006 08:49:22 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,
>>gray.wizard@moria.mines wrote: 
>>
>>>On Wed, 10 May 2006 20:54:51 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>an outlaw, and hers, as a "space hooker" are seen by our real world culture in
>>>
>>>I think in the parlance of today's youth that would be a 'stank ho'.
>>>
>>>Actually, she's more along the lines of a Beverly Hills high-priced
>>>call girl a la Heidi Fleiss or the Mayflower Madam, but I just wanted
>>>to say stank ho. :)
>>>
>>No way. Inara is MUCH more respected by her society. What she's doing isn't
>>even considered prostitution by the Alliance. It *is* by Mal. That's what makes
>>it so interesting. The society she lives in reveres her as a priestess, but the
>>main character has *our* sensabilities. The show seems to have the Alliance's
>>understanding of "companions," frequently making Mal look like an unwashed hick
>>in comparison. I found it the boldest, and most dangerous, thing the show did.
>
>Ya know, I sometimes got the feeling that Mal was doing it deliberately
>- keeping her at a distance.
>
Well of course. She was the _allure_ of the Alliance. All the things that were
good about it. The "culture" that he had left behind.

Until he came to terms with a life of defeat, he had to keep her at arms
length. He had to stop fighting the war before he could have her.

Great character interaction, and Inara's "noble prostitute" character was just
strange enough to us as viewers to make it work.

>>>>No. The "leaf in the wind" stuff was just vaguely Zen and had nothing to do
>>>>with the TV series. A lot of people liked that line. I, too, hated it.
>>>
>>>It's been my experience that the people who usually hate that 'leaf in
>>>the wind' line usually lead very anti-Zen lives. Is that you, Zag? ;)
>>
>>Not specifically *anti* Zen, but I find emotion to be a useful, and
>>ungovernable, experience, so Zen has little appeal. If I relate to any Eastern
>>philosophy, it's Daoism.
>>
>>Besides, the character just sounded fruity saying it. Shepard Booke could get
>>away with that line, not Wash! It was like Wheedon was the one speaking and not
>>the character. It didn't make sense and the way he delivered the line
>>demonstrated that. To me, it sounded like he didn't understand *why* he was
>>saying it. He may as well have started saying "OM."
>
>I didn't get that feel at all.
>He's a pilot heading into one hell of a shitstorm when he says that.
>And, like a leaf on the wind, serenity twisted and turned and soared.
>
Yeah, but you sure as *fuck* don't say something like that when you are a
pilot! He's driving that leaf!

The surrender of control implied by the line, combined with the look of extreme
concentration on his face, was complete disconnect for me.

>
>The funny bit was when he said "Don't worry, I'm a leaf on the wind" and
>Mal replied "But what does that mean?" in an exasperated voice.
>
Exactly. I was asking the same question.

>As for getting away with silly lines, do recall that this is a guy that
>plays with plastic dinosaurs at his station.
>
LOL. It's just a show. It dinnae work for me. As someone who at least games as
an aircraft pilot, you are never saying "I am a leaf in the wind" in that
situation. You are either gripping your rosaries for all you're worth, or
shouting "EJECT EJECT EJECT!"


--
Zag

I thought I could organize freedom, how very
Scandinavian of me. ...Björk

On Fri, 12 May 2006 12:16:11 +1000, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg, Highlandish
wrote: 

>Quoth The Raven; Jim Vieira <WhiplashrAT@wiDOT.rrDOT.com> in
><F6R8g.68099$Tf1.17413@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>
>> <gray.wizard@moria.mines> wrote in message
>> news:7ue662h8eh5m7kgsuim7fk448a5fslsocm@4ax.com...
>>> It was also rather cool to see River turn out to be a Major
>>> Bad-Ass(tm).
>>
>> Really? I thought that was rather simple and obvious.. I would rather
>> have seen her end up being some kind of psychic warrior or something.
>> That's the way the series seemed to be going and seemed far more
>> interesting to me.  Psychic powers.. reading minds, telekenisis, etc.
>>
>> She's a frail little girl.  I don't care how many martial arts moves
>> she knows, she's not going to be single handidly kicking ass on huge,
>> brute men.  That's not to say that no woman can beat any man.. but
>> it was said in the movie she's a 90 pound woman.  She simply is
>> not going to have enough power to seriously hurt anyone big, strong
>> and with stamina.
>>
>> I know women will get all in uproar over my above statement, but it's
>> true. People don't just get knocked out from a single punch of kick.
>> Watch some ultimate fighting for example, where guys are getting
>> pummeled repeatedly and will not submit, let alone get knocked out
>> cold.   Or boxing... People can take quite a bit of abuse before they
>> go down.  Many punches (hard) to the head included.
>>
>> Her kicking everyones ass was completely laughable. Most especially
>> on all the reavers. What a joke.
>>
>> But I know many will buy it and defend it because "fake" fighting has
>> been the norm in the movie industry for decades.  Where people lay
>> each other out with one solid punch and so forth.  That's not real at
>> all.  Most people have alot more stamina and can take a serious
>> beating before they give
>> up.  Seriously, if anyone doubts this, you haven't seen enough REAL
>> LIFE fights.  Like at hockey rinks where guys each have one hand
>> holding the collar of the other guy, and are PUMMELING each other
>> directly in the
>> face and nose, like dozens of times, before one of them finally falls.
>
>you do know Bruce lee was skinny and weak looking? his style allowed for 
>small physiques, however those ppl using his style had to be wirery and 
>honed.

Yeah. Remember when he took down Chuck Norris in that movie. Chuck just kept
coming until he had to kill him, WOW.

You know what happened to Lee in real life? He was in traction for months and
almost got paralized. It wasn't against Chuck Norris. He was fighting for the
right to teach martial arts in the US and he almost got himself killed. The
movie "Dragon" says it was a cheap shot to the back, but I doubt it.

Lightweight vs. Heavyweight = dead lightweight, unless he's got the drop or
superior knowledge on his side. Case closed.


--
Zag

I thought I could organize freedom, how very
Scandinavian of me. ...Björk

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net> wrote:
> mcv <mcvmcv@xs4all.nl> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
> spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:
> 
>>In comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg tilvios <toxaristhrasoe@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Lynley wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 11 May 2006 07:18:30 -0400, Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >Never saw the show when it was aired - didn't even know it existed -
>>>> >mostly because I don't even own a TV.
>>>>
>>>> Then how did you watch the DVD ;O)
>>> 
>>> I can watch DVDs without a television.  Hint: I'm using a device that
>>> can do this at this very moment. :)
>>
>>I only recently got a DVD player for my TV. For ages my only DVD player
>>was in my PC. The problem is that most movies, including the opening
>>scenes of the Firefly pilot, are way too dark for my monitor, so I tend
>>to see mostly black. I don't think I'll have that problem with my TV.
> 
> Doesn't your dvd playing software have a brightness control?
> See also the "overlay" section of the video card options under color
> correction.  
> You can, and I do, have the overlay at a different brightness than the
> normal desktop, and that overlay applies to the movie player.
> Both MSIDVD (came with the card) and PowerDvd get the brighter picture
> from this for me.

Couldn't you have told me that two years ago? Now I don't need it
anymore. In any case, I never noticed any brightness control in my
(really simple, and not too reliable) DVD playing software. I'll
have a look at those videocard options.


mcv.

Zaghadka <zagh...@hotmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Thu, 11 May 2006 16:57:59 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg, Xocyll wrote:
>
>>Zaghadka <zagh...@hotmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
>>the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>>
>>>On Thu, 11 May 2006 08:49:22 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,
>>>gray.wizard@moria.mines wrote: 
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 10 May 2006 20:54:51 -0500, Zaghadka <zagh...@hotmail.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>an outlaw, and hers, as a "space hooker" are seen by our real world culture in
>>>>
>>>>I think in the parlance of today's youth that would be a 'stank ho'.
>>>>
>>>>Actually, she's more along the lines of a Beverly Hills high-priced
>>>>call girl a la Heidi Fleiss or the Mayflower Madam, but I just wanted
>>>>to say stank ho. :)
>>>>
>>>No way. Inara is MUCH more respected by her society. What she's doing isn't
>>>even considered prostitution by the Alliance. It *is* by Mal. That's what makes
>>>it so interesting. The society she lives in reveres her as a priestess, but the
>>>main character has *our* sensabilities. The show seems to have the Alliance's
>>>understanding of "companions," frequently making Mal look like an unwashed hick
>>>in comparison. I found it the boldest, and most dangerous, thing the show did.
>>
>>Ya know, I sometimes got the feeling that Mal was doing it deliberately
>>- keeping her at a distance.
>>
>Well of course. She was the _allure_ of the Alliance. All the things that were
>good about it. The "culture" that he had left behind.
>
>Until he came to terms with a life of defeat, he had to keep her at arms
>length. He had to stop fighting the war before he could have her.
>
>Great character interaction, and Inara's "noble prostitute" character was just
>strange enough to us as viewers to make it work.
>
>>>>>No. The "leaf in the wind" stuff was just vaguely Zen and had nothing to do
>>>>>with the TV series. A lot of people liked that line. I, too, hated it.
>>>>
>>>>It's been my experience that the people who usually hate that 'leaf in
>>>>the wind' line usually lead very anti-Zen lives. Is that you, Zag? ;)
>>>
>>>Not specifically *anti* Zen, but I find emotion to be a useful, and
>>>ungovernable, experience, so Zen has little appeal. If I relate to any Eastern
>>>philosophy, it's Daoism.
>>>
>>>Besides, the character just sounded fruity saying it. Shepard Booke could get
>>>away with that line, not Wash! It was like Wheedon was the one speaking and not
>>>the character. It didn't make sense and the way he delivered the line
>>>demonstrated that. To me, it sounded like he didn't understand *why* he was
>>>saying it. He may as well have started saying "OM."
>>
>>I didn't get that feel at all.
>>He's a pilot heading into one hell of a shitstorm when he says that.
>>And, like a leaf on the wind, serenity twisted and turned and soared.
>>
>Yeah, but you sure as *fuck* don't say something like that when you are a
>pilot! He's driving that leaf!

Exactly - he's going to take that ship and zip and turn and go in
unexpected direction just like, a leaf on the wind being flipped around
by stray gusts.

>The surrender of control implied by the line, combined with the look of extreme
>concentration on his face, was complete disconnect for me.

It's nothing about surrender of control, it's a straight statement of
how he's going to be handling the ship.

Remember the other part of that line;  "Watch how I soar."

>>The funny bit was when he said "Don't worry, I'm a leaf on the wind" and
>>Mal replied "But what does that mean?" in an exasperated voice.
>>
>Exactly. I was asking the same question.
>
>>As for getting away with silly lines, do recall that this is a guy that
>>plays with plastic dinosaurs at his station.
>>
>LOL. It's just a show. It dinnae work for me. As someone who at least games as
>an aircraft pilot, you are never saying "I am a leaf in the wind" in that
>situation. You are either gripping your rosaries for all you're worth, or
>shouting "EJECT EJECT EJECT!"

Remember the start bit of the movie with him and the line (from memory
so probably not exactly right.)
Wash: "If Kaylee doesn't give us some more flow to offset the burn
through, this is going to get pretty interesting"
Mal: Define interesting.
Wash: Oh God, Oh God, we're all going to die.

Sure doesn't sound like he's the type to be worried about a crash- he
seems pretty damn sure of his ability.

Not to mention the various bits throughout the season showing that he's
not a good pilot, he's beyond exceptional.
The crazy Ivan, the dodging through canyons in the Message, the return
to space station under no power in War games, etc.

He's not flying a stunt craft or military ship, he's doing all that in
an aging freighter.

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr

Quoth The Raven; Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> in
<qrh9629gg8sofbqebtlbbj0cnktjm1lvso@4ax.com>
> On Fri, 12 May 2006 12:16:11 +1000, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,
> Highlandish wrote:
>
>>Quoth The Raven; Jim Vieira <WhiplashrAT@wiDOT.rrDOT.com> in
>><F6R8g.68099$Tf1.17413@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>
>>> <gray.wizard@moria.mines> wrote in message
>>> news:7ue662h8eh5m7kgsuim7fk448a5fslsocm@4ax.com...
>>>> It was also rather cool to see River turn out to be a Major
>>>> Bad-Ass(tm).
>>>
>>> Really? I thought that was rather simple and obvious.. I would
>>> rather have seen her end up being some kind of psychic warrior or
>>> something. That's the way the series seemed to be going and seemed
>>> far more interesting to me.  Psychic powers.. reading minds,
>>> telekenisis, etc.
>>>
>>> She's a frail little girl.  I don't care how many martial arts moves
>>> she knows, she's not going to be single handidly kicking ass on
>>> huge, brute men.  That's not to say that no woman can beat any
>>> man.. but
>>> it was said in the movie she's a 90 pound woman.  She simply is
>>> not going to have enough power to seriously hurt anyone big, strong
>>> and with stamina.
>>>
>>> I know women will get all in uproar over my above statement, but
>>> it's true. People don't just get knocked out from a single punch of
>>> kick. Watch some ultimate fighting for example, where guys are
>>> getting pummeled repeatedly and will not submit, let alone get
>>> knocked out cold.   Or boxing... People can take quite a bit of
>>> abuse before they go down.  Many punches (hard) to the head
>>> included.
>>>
>>> Her kicking everyones ass was completely laughable. Most especially
>>> on all the reavers. What a joke.
>>>
>>> But I know many will buy it and defend it because "fake" fighting
>>> has been the norm in the movie industry for decades.  Where people
>>> lay each other out with one solid punch and so forth.  That's not
>>> real at all.  Most people have alot more stamina and can take a
>>> serious beating before they give
>>> up.  Seriously, if anyone doubts this, you haven't seen enough REAL
>>> LIFE fights.  Like at hockey rinks where guys each have one hand
>>> holding the collar of the other guy, and are PUMMELING each other
>>> directly in the
>>> face and nose, like dozens of times, before one of them finally
>>> falls.
>>
>>you do know Bruce lee was skinny and weak looking? his style allowed
>>for small physiques, however those ppl using his style had to be
>>wirery and honed.
>
> Yeah. Remember when he took down Chuck Norris in that movie. Chuck
> just kept coming until he had to kill him, WOW.
>
> You know what happened to Lee in real life? He was in traction for
> months and almost got paralized. It wasn't against Chuck Norris. He
> was fighting for the right to teach martial arts in the US and he
> almost got himself killed. The movie "Dragon" says it was a cheap
> shot to the back, but I doubt it.
>
> Lightweight vs. Heavyweight = dead lightweight, unless he's got the
> drop or superior knowledge on his side. Case closed.

by the way, we know that River was the 3rd outcome of PAX after all the ones 
that lay down and died, Reavers survived and went insane, and River was the 
perfect mutated freak weapon. so she cant be equated to anything in real 
life. i'm surprised that she was the only one of her kind

-- 
Remove the _CURSEING to reply to me

"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) 

"Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:44652413$0$15721$c30e37c6@ken-reader.news.telstra.net...
> by the way, we know that River was the 3rd outcome of PAX after all the
ones
> that lay down and died, Reavers survived and went insane, and River was
the
> perfect mutated freak weapon. so she cant be equated to anything in real
> life. i'm surprised that she was the only one of her kind
>
River was never exposed to PAX

Jason

"Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs
say:

<snip>
>by the way, we know that River was the 3rd outcome of PAX after all the ones 
>that lay down and died, Reavers survived and went insane, and River was the 
>perfect mutated freak weapon. so she cant be equated to anything in real 
>life. i'm surprised that she was the only one of her kind

Where the heck did you get this from?
River knows about Miranda because she's PSYCHIC and read the minds of
the Top Alliance Personal who instigated the PAX on Miranda and know
what happened as a result.

Those aren't her memories, they're theirs as she even says in the movie.
"They're not mine and I shouldn't have to carry them."

Think you're confusing River with Alice from the Resident Evil movies.

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr

On 11 May 2006 13:05:52 -0700, "tilvios" <toxaristhrasoe@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
>Lynley wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 May 2006 07:18:30 -0400, Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >>I just watched both the film and the series and thank god I watched
>> >>the series before the film.  Anyone who went into the film "cold"
>> >>would've been instantly lost and bored.  The film relied far too much
>> >>on the audience being fans and knowing the characters and the
>> >>backstory.  The way the movie played out, kinda made a mockery of
>> >>Whedon's intro on the DVD, I think he filmed this for a ComicCon
>> >>screening, asking people to get everyone they knew, even non-fans,
>> >>into theatres to watch the film.
>> >
>> >I didn't find it so.
>> >I bought the film on DVD one day at Walmart having read a few mentions
>> >of it in one of the newsgroups I read.   Didn't remember anything except
>> >the title so I took a chance and bought it.
>> >
>> >On the strength of the movie, I later bought the series on DVD.
>> >
>> >Never saw the show when it was aired - didn't even know it existed -
>> >mostly because I don't even own a TV.
>>
>> Then how did you watch the DVD ;O)
>
>I can watch DVDs without a television.  Hint: I'm using a device that
>can do this at this very moment. :)

Stupid me, but how can you stand watching on even a 21" monitor?  I've
tried on mine and it just irrtitates the crap outa me.  Luckinly I
know have a DVD-R/HDD recorder in my lounge that plays a few common
formats including DivX.

Lynley

"Lynley" <lynley.james@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:r2j962psejlm3ekv1rmo8mvdc8jcr0iqjj@4ax.com...
> On 11 May 2006 13:05:52 -0700, "tilvios" <toxaristhrasoe@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>I can watch DVDs without a television.  Hint: I'm using a device that
>>can do this at this very moment. :)
>
> Stupid me, but how can you stand watching on even a 21" monitor?  I've
> tried on mine and it just irrtitates the crap outa me.  Luckinly I
> know have a DVD-R/HDD recorder in my lounge that plays a few common
> formats including DivX.
>

I have a 21" Dell monitor but my second 'monitor' at the moment is an Epson 
projector.  Much prefer Serenity on a four foot screen with surround sound. 
Funnily I tried games on it and hated it (Far Cry looked very nice tho). 
The 21" CRT is still best for games.

Quoth The Raven; Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net> in
<mleb621q7hesaeu4icmrng52kn7aovgf4a@4ax.com>
> "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> looked up from reading
> the entrails of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the
> signs say:
>
> <snip>
>>by the way, we know that River was the 3rd outcome of PAX after all
>>the ones that lay down and died, Reavers survived and went insane,
>>and River was the perfect mutated freak weapon. so she cant be
>>equated to anything in real life. i'm surprised that she was the only
>>one of her kind
>
> Where the heck did you get this from?
> River knows about Miranda because she's PSYCHIC and read the minds of
> the Top Alliance Personal who instigated the PAX on Miranda and know
> what happened as a result.
>
> Those aren't her memories, they're theirs as she even says in the
> movie. "They're not mine and I shouldn't have to carry them."
>
> Think you're confusing River with Alice from the Resident Evil movies.
>
> Xocyll

of course i have been known to be wrong, but i'm pretty sure River was the 
third outcome of the experiments

-- 
Remove the _CURSEING to reply to me

To be intoxicated is to feel sophisticated, but not be able to say it. 

"Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> wrote in message
news:4465dc2d$0$15725$c30e37c6@ken-reader.news.telstra.net...
> Quoth The Raven; Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net> in
> <mleb621q7hesaeu4icmrng52kn7aovgf4a@4ax.com>
> > "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> looked up from reading
> > the entrails of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the
> > signs say:
> >
> > <snip>
> >>by the way, we know that River was the 3rd outcome of PAX after all
> >>the ones that lay down and died, Reavers survived and went insane,
> >>and River was the perfect mutated freak weapon. so she cant be
> >>equated to anything in real life. i'm surprised that she was the only
> >>one of her kind
> >
> > Where the heck did you get this from?
> > River knows about Miranda because she's PSYCHIC and read the minds of
> > the Top Alliance Personal who instigated the PAX on Miranda and know
> > what happened as a result.
> >
> > Those aren't her memories, they're theirs as she even says in the
> > movie. "They're not mine and I shouldn't have to carry them."
> >
> > Think you're confusing River with Alice from the Resident Evil movies.
> >
> > Xocyll
>
> of course i have been known to be wrong, but i'm pretty sure River was the
> third outcome of the experiments
>
No, River was never involved in the PAX experiments.  She was experimented
on by the Alliance, as we saw at the beginning of the film, but these were
experiments into her psychic nature, not exposure to PAX.

Jason

On Sat, 13 May 2006 23:16:36 +1000, "Highlandish"
<ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> wrote:

>Quoth The Raven; Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net> in
><mleb621q7hesaeu4icmrng52kn7aovgf4a@4ax.com>
>> "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> looked up from reading
>> the entrails of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the
>> signs say:
>>
>> <snip>
>>>by the way, we know that River was the 3rd outcome of PAX after all
>>>the ones that lay down and died, Reavers survived and went insane,
>>>and River was the perfect mutated freak weapon. so she cant be
>>>equated to anything in real life. i'm surprised that she was the only
>>>one of her kind
>>
>> Where the heck did you get this from?
>> River knows about Miranda because she's PSYCHIC and read the minds of
>> the Top Alliance Personal who instigated the PAX on Miranda and know
>> what happened as a result.
>>
>> Those aren't her memories, they're theirs as she even says in the
>> movie. "They're not mine and I shouldn't have to carry them."
>>
>> Think you're confusing River with Alice from the Resident Evil movies.
>>
>> Xocyll
>
>of course i have been known to be wrong, but i'm pretty sure River was the 
>third outcome of the experiments

No, she was tagged as 'special' as a young girl and sent to a
goivernment school for special kids - Simon realised something was
wrong after he graduated and spent years trying to get her out.

She was getting some sort of treatments to enhance her psychic and
combat abilities, but I don't recall any of that being linked to the
Miranda experiment.

-- 

Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes !
They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
And what's with all the carrots ?  
What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
Bunnies !  Bunnies !  It must be BUNNIES !

On Fri, 12 May 2006 16:50:08 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg, Xocyll wrote:

>Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
>the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>>On Thu, 11 May 2006 16:57:59 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg, Xocyll wrote:
>>
>>>Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
>>>the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 11 May 2006 08:49:22 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,
>>>>gray.wizard@moria.mines wrote: 
>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 10 May 2006 20:54:51 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>an outlaw, and hers, as a "space hooker" are seen by our real world culture in
>>>>>
>>>>>I think in the parlance of today's youth that would be a 'stank ho'.
>>>>>
>>>>>Actually, she's more along the lines of a Beverly Hills high-priced
>>>>>call girl a la Heidi Fleiss or the Mayflower Madam, but I just wanted
>>>>>to say stank ho. :)
>>>>>
>>>>No way. Inara is MUCH more respected by her society. What she's doing isn't
>>>>even considered prostitution by the Alliance. It *is* by Mal. That's what makes
>>>>it so interesting. The society she lives in reveres her as a priestess, but the
>>>>main character has *our* sensabilities. The show seems to have the Alliance's
>>>>understanding of "companions," frequently making Mal look like an unwashed hick
>>>>in comparison. I found it the boldest, and most dangerous, thing the show did.
>>>
>>>Ya know, I sometimes got the feeling that Mal was doing it deliberately
>>>- keeping her at a distance.
>>>
>>Well of course. She was the _allure_ of the Alliance. All the things that were
>>good about it. The "culture" that he had left behind.
>>
>>Until he came to terms with a life of defeat, he had to keep her at arms
>>length. He had to stop fighting the war before he could have her.
>>
>>Great character interaction, and Inara's "noble prostitute" character was just
>>strange enough to us as viewers to make it work.
>>
>>>>>>No. The "leaf in the wind" stuff was just vaguely Zen and had nothing to do
>>>>>>with the TV series. A lot of people liked that line. I, too, hated it.
>>>>>
>>>>>It's been my experience that the people who usually hate that 'leaf in
>>>>>the wind' line usually lead very anti-Zen lives. Is that you, Zag? ;)
>>>>
>>>>Not specifically *anti* Zen, but I find emotion to be a useful, and
>>>>ungovernable, experience, so Zen has little appeal. If I relate to any Eastern
>>>>philosophy, it's Daoism.
>>>>
>>>>Besides, the character just sounded fruity saying it. Shepard Booke could get
>>>>away with that line, not Wash! It was like Wheedon was the one speaking and not
>>>>the character. It didn't make sense and the way he delivered the line
>>>>demonstrated that. To me, it sounded like he didn't understand *why* he was
>>>>saying it. He may as well have started saying "OM."
>>>
>>>I didn't get that feel at all.
>>>He's a pilot heading into one hell of a shitstorm when he says that.
>>>And, like a leaf on the wind, serenity twisted and turned and soared.
>>>
>>Yeah, but you sure as *fuck* don't say something like that when you are a
>>pilot! He's driving that leaf!
>
>Exactly - he's going to take that ship and zip and turn and go in
>unexpected direction just like, a leaf on the wind being flipped around
>by stray gusts.
>
>>The surrender of control implied by the line, combined with the look of extreme
>>concentration on his face, was complete disconnect for me.
>
>It's nothing about surrender of control, it's a straight statement of
>how he's going to be handling the ship.
>
>Remember the other part of that line;  "Watch how I soar."
>
You've never known a pilot, have you? They have nightmares about that shit. ;^)

I had a friend who flew Cessna's and he would have a shit fit if I screwed up
while flying Flight Simulator 98. You should have seen the *actual fear* on his
face when I punched up the Lear.

Besides the fact that the reality was "I am a rock in thin atmo, watch how I
plummet!" ;^)

Can you see Chuck Yeager saying that line in his cockpit?!

>>>The funny bit was when he said "Don't worry, I'm a leaf on the wind" and
>>>Mal replied "But what does that mean?" in an exasperated voice.
>>>
>>Exactly. I was asking the same question.
>>
>>>As for getting away with silly lines, do recall that this is a guy that
>>>plays with plastic dinosaurs at his station.
>>>
>>LOL. It's just a show. It dinnae work for me. As someone who at least games as
>>an aircraft pilot, you are never saying "I am a leaf in the wind" in that
>>situation. You are either gripping your rosaries for all you're worth, or
>>shouting "EJECT EJECT EJECT!"
>
>Remember the start bit of the movie with him and the line (from memory
>so probably not exactly right.)
>Wash: "If Kaylee doesn't give us some more flow to offset the burn
>through, this is going to get pretty interesting"
>Mal: Define interesting.
>Wash: Oh God, Oh God, we're all going to die.
>
"Oh god oh god we're all going to die" refers to the helplessness of a pilot
when your chief engineer isn't holding the ship together. That's how
interesting it's going to be for Wash if Kaylee doesn't do her job.

Even Chuck's hoping he packed his chute right when the guide wires to his
ailerons snap. If you exceed CTV, you're fucked.

I know a lot of pilots that won't fly planes they can't personally maintain for
this reason. All of them know who takes care of their bird.

>Sure doesn't sound like he's the type to be worried about a crash- he
>seems pretty damn sure of his ability.
>
>Not to mention the various bits throughout the season showing that he's
>not a good pilot, he's beyond exceptional.
>The crazy Ivan, the dodging through canyons in the Message, the return
>to space station under no power in War games, etc.
>
I personally love the actor's commentary about how they blew the series canon
that he would always become deadly serious in that canyon run because they new
the series was over. His Jerry Lewis impression was priceless.

I wish they had returned to canon for the movie, for me, knowing what little I
know about piloting, it just didn't "fly." ;^)

>He's not flying a stunt craft or military ship, he's doing all that in
>an aging freighter.
>
That's exactly what the Millenium Falcon was too. A "few modifications" go a
long way. ;^P


--
Zag

I thought I could organize freedom, how very
Scandinavian of me. ...Björk

On Fri, 12 May 2006 09:21:47 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,
gray.wizard@moria.mines wrote: 

>On Thu, 11 May 2006 14:26:00 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Besides, the character just sounded fruity saying it. Shepard Booke could get
>>away with that line, not Wash! It was like Wheedon was the one speaking and not
>>the character. It didn't make sense and the way he delivered the line
>
>No, Wash said things like that a couple times in the TV series when
>things got hectic when he was piloting. His character could get quite
>excitable at times & those little tricks helped keep him calm & cool
>when in tense situations.
>
>What I would have found more unrealistic is if he was portrayed as the
>stereotypical spaceship pilot with nerves of steel & even when being
>beared down upon by 20 capital ships nothing would shake him.
>
>Everyone has tricks & quirks to help them get through stressful
>situations. Being a leaf in the wind was one of his. I thought it made
>him more human.

"Looks like I quit the wrong week to quit smoking!" ;^)


--
Zag

I thought I could organize freedom, how very
Scandinavian of me. ...Björk

On Sat, 13 May 2006 10:10:58 +1000, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg, Highlandish
wrote: 

>Quoth The Raven; Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> in
><qrh9629gg8sofbqebtlbbj0cnktjm1lvso@4ax.com>
>> On Fri, 12 May 2006 12:16:11 +1000, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg,
>> Highlandish wrote:
>>
>>>Quoth The Raven; Jim Vieira <WhiplashrAT@wiDOT.rrDOT.com> in
>>><F6R8g.68099$Tf1.17413@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com>
>>>> <gray.wizard@moria.mines> wrote in message
>>>> news:7ue662h8eh5m7kgsuim7fk448a5fslsocm@4ax.com...
>>>>> It was also rather cool to see River turn out to be a Major
>>>>> Bad-Ass(tm).
>>>>
>>>> Really? I thought that was rather simple and obvious.. I would
>>>> rather have seen her end up being some kind of psychic warrior or
>>>> something. That's the way the series seemed to be going and seemed
>>>> far more interesting to me.  Psychic powers.. reading minds,
>>>> telekenisis, etc.
>>>>
>>>> She's a frail little girl.  I don't care how many martial arts moves
>>>> she knows, she's not going to be single handidly kicking ass on
>>>> huge, brute men.  That's not to say that no woman can beat any
>>>> man.. but
>>>> it was said in the movie she's a 90 pound woman.  She simply is
>>>> not going to have enough power to seriously hurt anyone big, strong
>>>> and with stamina.
>>>>
>>>> I know women will get all in uproar over my above statement, but
>>>> it's true. People don't just get knocked out from a single punch of
>>>> kick. Watch some ultimate fighting for example, where guys are
>>>> getting pummeled repeatedly and will not submit, let alone get
>>>> knocked out cold.   Or boxing... People can take quite a bit of
>>>> abuse before they go down.  Many punches (hard) to the head
>>>> included.
>>>>
>>>> Her kicking everyones ass was completely laughable. Most especially
>>>> on all the reavers. What a joke.
>>>>
>>>> But I know many will buy it and defend it because "fake" fighting
>>>> has been the norm in the movie industry for decades.  Where people
>>>> lay each other out with one solid punch and so forth.  That's not
>>>> real at all.  Most people have alot more stamina and can take a
>>>> serious beating before they give
>>>> up.  Seriously, if anyone doubts this, you haven't seen enough REAL
>>>> LIFE fights.  Like at hockey rinks where guys each have one hand
>>>> holding the collar of the other guy, and are PUMMELING each other
>>>> directly in the
>>>> face and nose, like dozens of times, before one of them finally
>>>> falls.
>>>
>>>you do know Bruce lee was skinny and weak looking? his style allowed
>>>for small physiques, however those ppl using his style had to be
>>>wirery and honed.
>>
>> Yeah. Remember when he took down Chuck Norris in that movie. Chuck
>> just kept coming until he had to kill him, WOW.
>>
>> You know what happened to Lee in real life? He was in traction for
>> months and almost got paralized. It wasn't against Chuck Norris. He
>> was fighting for the right to teach martial arts in the US and he
>> almost got himself killed. The movie "Dragon" says it was a cheap
>> shot to the back, but I doubt it.
>>
>> Lightweight vs. Heavyweight = dead lightweight, unless he's got the
>> drop or superior knowledge on his side. Case closed.
>
>by the way, we know that River was the 3rd outcome of PAX after all the ones 
>that lay down and died, Reavers survived and went insane, and River was the 
>perfect mutated freak weapon. so she cant be equated to anything in real 
>life. i'm surprised that she was the only one of her kind

ya' cannae change the laws of physics.


--
Zag

I thought I could organize freedom, how very
Scandinavian of me. ...Björk

On Sat, 13 May 2006 23:16:36 +1000, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg, Highlandish
wrote: 

>Quoth The Raven; Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net> in
><mleb621q7hesaeu4icmrng52kn7aovgf4a@4ax.com>
>> "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> looked up from reading
>> the entrails of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the
>> signs say:
>>
>> <snip>
>>>by the way, we know that River was the 3rd outcome of PAX after all
>>>the ones that lay down and died, Reavers survived and went insane,
>>>and River was the perfect mutated freak weapon. so she cant be
>>>equated to anything in real life. i'm surprised that she was the only
>>>one of her kind
>>
>> Where the heck did you get this from?
>> River knows about Miranda because she's PSYCHIC and read the minds of
>> the Top Alliance Personal who instigated the PAX on Miranda and know
>> what happened as a result.
>>
>> Those aren't her memories, they're theirs as she even says in the
>> movie. "They're not mine and I shouldn't have to carry them."
>>
>> Think you're confusing River with Alice from the Resident Evil movies.
>>
>> Xocyll
>
>of course i have been known to be wrong, but i'm pretty sure River was the 
>third outcome of the experiments

Perhaps the result of the psychological damage of having to live with all those
memories of the planet Miranda in her head, but she was not a direct result of
the PAX experiment as near as I can tell fromt the material presented.

Joss, buddy, ya' out there?


--
Zag

I thought I could organize freedom, how very
Scandinavian of me. ...Björk

Lynley <lynley.james@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On 11 May 2006 13:05:52 -0700, "tilvios" <toxaristhrasoe@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>Lynley wrote:
>>> On Thu, 11 May 2006 07:18:30 -0400, Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> >>I just watched both the film and the series and thank god I watched
>>> >>the series before the film.  Anyone who went into the film "cold"
>>> >>would've been instantly lost and bored.  The film relied far too much
>>> >>on the audience being fans and knowing the characters and the
>>> >>backstory.  The way the movie played out, kinda made a mockery of
>>> >>Whedon's intro on the DVD, I think he filmed this for a ComicCon
>>> >>screening, asking people to get everyone they knew, even non-fans,
>>> >>into theatres to watch the film.
>>> >
>>> >I didn't find it so.
>>> >I bought the film on DVD one day at Walmart having read a few mentions
>>> >of it in one of the newsgroups I read.   Didn't remember anything except
>>> >the title so I took a chance and bought it.
>>> >
>>> >On the strength of the movie, I later bought the series on DVD.
>>> >
>>> >Never saw the show when it was aired - didn't even know it existed -
>>> >mostly because I don't even own a TV.
>>>
>>> Then how did you watch the DVD ;O)
>>
>>I can watch DVDs without a television.  Hint: I'm using a device that
>>can do this at this very moment. :)
>
>Stupid me, but how can you stand watching on even a 21" monitor?  I've
>tried on mine and it just irrtitates the crap outa me.  Luckinly I
>know have a DVD-R/HDD recorder in my lounge that plays a few common
>formats including DivX.


21" monitor at a distance of 2 feet gives a better and clearer picture
than a TV set 6 feet away, unless you've got a huge high end TV.

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr

On Sat, 13 May 2006 13:55:21 +0100, "Shawk"
<shawk@clara.co.uk.3guesses> wrote:

>
>"Lynley" <lynley.james@gmail.com> wrote in message 
>news:r2j962psejlm3ekv1rmo8mvdc8jcr0iqjj@4ax.com...
>> On 11 May 2006 13:05:52 -0700, "tilvios" <toxaristhrasoe@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>I can watch DVDs without a television.  Hint: I'm using a device that
>>>can do this at this very moment. :)
>>
>> Stupid me, but how can you stand watching on even a 21" monitor?  I've
>> tried on mine and it just irrtitates the crap outa me.  Luckinly I
>> know have a DVD-R/HDD recorder in my lounge that plays a few common
>> formats including DivX.
>>
>
>I have a 21" Dell monitor but my second 'monitor' at the moment is an Epson 
>projector.  Much prefer Serenity on a four foot screen with surround sound. 
>Funnily I tried games on it and hated it (Far Cry looked very nice tho). 
>The 21" CRT is still best for games.
>
>


SHow off ;OP  I can see why you would prefer a projector, I just wish
I had the sapce for something like that, and let's not even talk about
the money ;O)

Lynley

On Sat, 13 May 2006 23:16:36 +1000, "Highlandish"
<ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> wrote:

>Quoth The Raven; Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net> in
><mleb621q7hesaeu4icmrng52kn7aovgf4a@4ax.com>
>> "Highlandish" <ckreskay_CURSEING@dodo.com.au> looked up from reading
>> the entrails of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the
>> signs say:
>>
>> <snip>
>>>by the way, we know that River was the 3rd outcome of PAX after all
>>>the ones that lay down and died, Reavers survived and went insane,
>>>and River was the perfect mutated freak weapon. so she cant be
>>>equated to anything in real life. i'm surprised that she was the only
>>>one of her kind
>>
>> Where the heck did you get this from?
>> River knows about Miranda because she's PSYCHIC and read the minds of
>> the Top Alliance Personal who instigated the PAX on Miranda and know
>> what happened as a result.
>>
>> Those aren't her memories, they're theirs as she even says in the
>> movie. "They're not mine and I shouldn't have to carry them."
>>
>> Think you're confusing River with Alice from the Resident Evil movies.
>>
>> Xocyll
>
>of course i have been known to be wrong, but i'm pretty sure River was the 
>third outcome of the experiments


IIRC Xocyll is correct.  At the beginning the Alliance agent kills the
scientist for among other things bringing the MP's into a room with a
psychic.  One of the reason's for the intense hunt for River was that
she could've gained the knowledge of what happened on Miranda from
this brief contact.

One thing that puzzled me about he Reavers was that they were based
around this planet with tons of high tech scrap and they seem to be
scavengers as well as violent cannibals and the planet is untouched.

Lynley

"Lynley" <lynley.james@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:g7ec62139pb3km9gvt7dsls86koor5rhhk@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 13 May 2006 13:55:21 +0100, "Shawk"
> <shawk@clara.co.uk.3guesses> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Lynley" <lynley.james@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:r2j962psejlm3ekv1rmo8mvdc8jcr0iqjj@4ax.com...
>>> On 11 May 2006 13:05:52 -0700, "tilvios" <toxaristhrasoe@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>I can watch DVDs without a television.  Hint: I'm using a device that
>>>>can do this at this very moment. :)
>>>
>>> Stupid me, but how can you stand watching on even a 21" monitor?  I've
>>> tried on mine and it just irrtitates the crap outa me.  Luckinly I
>>> know have a DVD-R/HDD recorder in my lounge that plays a few common
>>> formats including DivX.
>>>
>>
>>I have a 21" Dell monitor but my second 'monitor' at the moment is an 
>>Epson
>>projector.  Much prefer Serenity on a four foot screen with surround 
>>sound.
>>Funnily I tried games on it and hated it (Far Cry looked very nice tho).
>>The 21" CRT is still best for games.
>>
>>
>
>
> SHow off ;OP  I can see why you would prefer a projector, I just wish
> I had the sapce for something like that, and let's not even talk about
> the money ;O)

...shhhhhh... it's the Company's - provided for when I undertake training. 
Well... if they want me to store it for free for them there has to be a 
kickback eh?  ;)

"Lynley" <lynley.james@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:pk8462tevkt3ufafrbccjjbref3g2hff76@4ax.com...

> I just watched both the film and the series and thank god I watched
> the series before the film.  Anyone who went into the film "cold"
> would've been instantly lost and bored.

Hmm. Might want to retune that mind-reading cap. My wife and I rented it a 
couple weeks ago and like it enough to grab the whole series. 

On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 06:01:16 GMT, "Martin Feller"
<martinfeller@sxfxcxgxlxoxbxaxlx.nxext> wrote:

>
>"Lynley" <lynley.james@gmail.com> wrote in message 
>news:pk8462tevkt3ufafrbccjjbref3g2hff76@4ax.com...
>
>> I just watched both the film and the series and thank god I watched
>> the series before the film.  Anyone who went into the film "cold"
>> would've been instantly lost and bored.
>
>Hmm. Might want to retune that mind-reading cap. My wife and I rented it a 
>couple weeks ago and like it enough to grab the whole series. 
>


Huh.  I guess I was wrong, but when I watched it I just kept thinking
to myslef thank god I know who the Shep and courtesan are because if I
didn't I wouldn't understand their importance.  What did confuse me
was why the Shephard had suddenly disappeared, luckily I got a hold of
the Dark Horse comic which fills in the gap between the series and
movie.

Lynley

Lynley <lynley.james@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 06:01:16 GMT, "Martin Feller"
><martinfeller@sxfxcxgxlxoxbxaxlx.nxext> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Lynley" <lynley.james@gmail.com> wrote in message 
>>news:pk8462tevkt3ufafrbccjjbref3g2hff76@4ax.com...
>>
>>> I just watched both the film and the series and thank god I watched
>>> the series before the film.  Anyone who went into the film "cold"
>>> would've been instantly lost and bored.
>>
>>Hmm. Might want to retune that mind-reading cap. My wife and I rented it a 
>>couple weeks ago and like it enough to grab the whole series. 
>>
>
>
>Huh.  I guess I was wrong, but when I watched it I just kept thinking
>to myslef thank god I know who the Shep and courtesan are because if I
>didn't I wouldn't understand their importance.  What did confuse me
>was why the Shephard had suddenly disappeared, luckily I got a hold of
>the Dark Horse comic which fills in the gap between the series and
>movie.

Yes, but the movie didn't require you to know anything about Book and
Inara - all you _needed_ to know was in the movie.

I'm another who bought the movie, and based on my enjoyment of it,
bought the series.

Book - some religious type dude who at some point was semi-important to
Mal and the crew and who's a big shot of sorts at that colony they went
to.  Inara - the movie would kinda give you the impression that's she's
Mal's ex - the whole prostitute angle isn't there in the movie, but it
didn't need to be.  
The movie really didn't require a hooker or a preacher, so them having
marginalized parts really doesn't make an issue.

I will agree that you get more out of the movie having seen the series
first, but it's not required, any more than watching Star Trek: The
Movie required you to have seen any of the series.

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr