🚀 go-pugleaf

just passing through (depa...@netcom.com) wrote:
: Minor note on Warcraft:

: Units can play follow-the-leader.

: Isn't it annoying when you send a group off somewhere, and since they
: move at different rates, they all straggle in separately, and probably
: get slaughtered  ... ?

: But if you tell unit A to move, and then click on unit B, unit A will 
: follow unit B until it reaches it and B is no longer moving.

: What this means in terms of gameplay is that if you have a group consisting
: of, say, a catapult, two knights, and two archers, you can direct the
: whole mass to the other side of the map and have them arrive at the same
: time.  Just direct the catapult way over there, and direct the knights and
: the archers to move (NOT ATTACK) on to the catapult.

: You can also tell your units to move onto an enemy unit, and they will
: follow it faithfully (or until they are next to it and it stops moving.)
: They will fight it when they get next to it, of course.

: Anyhow, I thought it was interesting to find out something 
: new about Warcraft after having played it for a year or so ...

I've never done this myself, but I _think_ that you can also tell one of your
troops to attack an _area_.  He will move toward the area, attacking anything
that threatens him along the way (contrast with the simple move command;
your troops move, totally ignoring enemy troops)


Dean Svendsen :-das...@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au

"Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time."

In article <departed...@netcom.com>, depa...@netcom.com says...
>
>Minor note on Warcraft:
>
>Units can play follow-the-leader.
>
>Isn't it annoying when you send a group off somewhere, and since they
>move at different rates, they all straggle in separately, and probably
>get slaughtered  ... ?
(snip)

   This gives me an idea for managing large numbers of troop in WC2.  In 
WC1, you could only select up to 4 units at a time and give them simple 
move or attack orders.  In WC2, I'd like to see groups of much larger 
size and the ability to make them permanent. (eg  Select a group of 8 
archers and press the 'form group' button, and then a small icon appears 
at the top of the screen.  Clicking on this icon later in the game will 
select the 8 archers)  I'd also like to see advanced formation commands 
such as 'single file', 'abreast', and 'box' (eg With the archer group 
mentioned above, click the 'abreast' button, then click on the enemy 
town, then the archers will automatically line up side by side facing the 
target)  This would allow the user to spend more time watching the battle 
instead of madly pointing and clicking.

      Dan Goertzen

DA Svendsen (das...@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au) wrote:
:I've never done this myself, but I _think_ that you can also tell one of your
:troops to attack an _area_.  He will move toward the area, attacking anything
:that threatens him along the way (contrast with the simple move command;
:your troops move, totally ignoring enemy troops)

  An area? How do you go about making this happen? I know that every once 
in awhile some of my knights wake up to discover their friend 3 blocks 
away is being attacked, but not always.

  I either use the grouping command, or move one guy and make others 
follow the leader. (A habbit from Dune 2)

--
      ^       
    _' `_      * Kevin Lo -- http://www.geopages.com/SiliconValley/1070/    
 .-~'   `~-.    - k...@digital.net         * FDC Merlin   
(  ' __. `  )  * FreeBSD 2.0.5R / DOS     * AKA Radnor on most MUSH/MUSEs
 `-''   ``-'  GCS/MU/Od+H-s!gp?!aua--w++v++C++++HU+P+L3N+++E----KW+M--V---po+
               Y+t+++5--jRG+@tv++b++D++B---e(+)u++h!f+!rn---x?
  

Kevin (k...@digital.net) wrote:
: DA Svendsen (das...@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au) wrote:
: :I've never done this myself, but I _think_ that you can also tell one of your
: :troops to attack an _area_.  He will move toward the area, attacking anything
: :that threatens him along the way (contrast with the simple move command;
: :your troops move, totally ignoring enemy troops)

:   An area? How do you go about making this happen? I know that every once 
: in awhile some of my knights wake up to discover their friend 3 blocks 
: away is being attacked, but not always.

:   I either use the grouping command, or move one guy and make others 
: follow the leader. (A habbit from Dune 2)

You define an area by the usual method; holding down the CTRL key and click-
dragging with the mouse.  Whether it actually _works_ is another thing entirely,
though.

Dean Svendsen :-das...@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au

"Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time."

     You're confused.  Your units automatically attack any enemies that come within a 
certain distance.  They are not set to "guard."  Most importantly, you cannot get 
them to not attack a nearby enemy.  This is a source of MANY frustrations.

Carlin
mar...@on-ramp.ior.com

Daniel Goertzen (umgo...@cc.umanitoba.ca) wrote:
:    This gives me an idea for managing large numbers of troop in WC2.  In 
: WC1, you could only select up to 4 units at a time and give them simple 
: move or attack orders.  In WC2, I'd like to see groups of much larger 
: size and the ability to make them permanent. (eg  Select a group of 8 
: archers and press the 'form group' button, and then a small icon appears 
: at the top of the screen.  Clicking on this icon later in the game will 
: select the 8 archers)  I'd also like to see advanced formation commands 
: such as 'single file', 'abreast', and 'box' (eg With the archer group 
: mentioned above, click the 'abreast' button, then click on the enemy 
: town, then the archers will automatically line up side by side facing the 
: target)  This would allow the user to spend more time watching the battle 
: instead of madly pointing and clicking.

:       Dan Goertzen

I totally agree with you. Your suggestion is perfect. I'm a
person who likes strategy and battle formations are one of my
favorite thing. Many times I have had a large group of archers,
or knights that I have wanted to attack in formation and stay in
formation. I've noticed (especially with Knights) that they tend
to get strung out in a line. This leaves the second knight open
to catapult fire (Since the catapult would fire at the first
knight and naturally hit the second one.). A solid formation
would prevent this.
		Jody Bailey

jtba...@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca (Jody Thomas Bailey) writes:

>Daniel Goertzen (umgo...@cc.umanitoba.ca) wrote:
>:    This gives me an idea for managing large numbers of troop in WC2.  In 
>: WC1, you could only select up to 4 units at a time and give them simple 
>: move or attack orders.  In WC2, I'd like to see groups of much larger 
>: size and the ability to make them permanent. (eg  Select a group of 8 
>: archers and press the 'form group' button, and then a small icon appears 
>: at the top of the screen.  Clicking on this icon later in the game will 
>: select the 8 archers)  I'd also like to see advanced formation commands 
>: such as 'single file', 'abreast', and 'box' (eg With the archer group 
>: mentioned above, click the 'abreast' button, then click on the enemy 
>: town, then the archers will automatically line up side by side facing the 
>: target)  This would allow the user to spend more time watching the battle 
>: instead of madly pointing and clicking.

>I totally agree with you. Your suggestion is perfect. I'm a
>person who likes strategy and battle formations are one of my
>favorite thing. Many times I have had a large group of archers,
>or knights that I have wanted to attack in formation and stay in
>formation. I've noticed (especially with Knights) that they tend
>to get strung out in a line. This leaves the second knight open
>to catapult fire (Since the catapult would fire at the first
>knight and naturally hit the second one.). A solid formation
>would prevent this.

I am also another in 100% agreement.  I like watching battles more than 
anything, and I like to keep guys in the formation that I intended them 
to be in.  When its messy, it doesn't look as cool.  Often times I'll 
try to move them back into formation, even if they get slaughtered in 
the meanwhile.  If you could have formations, the defense will no longer 
have as big of an advantage as it does now.  Currently, the defense 
stays in formation while the offense comes in one by one, never at full 
force at once.  Also, archers should be able to get a "fire arrow" 
upgrade, and have longer range.

As for the catapult thing, its happened much too often.  What I do now 
is send in knights and catapults, one by one, to pick off the defense.  
I target catapults and magic users, only.  Once the catapult defense is 
down, I'll charge my remaining catapults and knights.  
-- 
                      _________________________________
          __    _____|                                 |_____    __
_________|  |__|    :|       Bryant Fong               |     |__|  |_________
\       :|  |::|    :|       bry...@netcom.com         |     |::|  |        /
  \     :|  |::|    :|       Doom II Butt-Kicker       |     |::|  |      /
    >   :|  |::|    :|_________________________________|     |::|  |    <
  /     :|__|::|____:/ Everybody wants to go to heaven \.____|::|__|      \
/_______:/  \::/           but nobody wants to die.          \::/  \._______\

Mark or Carlin <markcln> wrote:

>     You're confused.  Your units automatically attack any enemies that come within a 
>certain distance.  They are not set to "guard."  Most importantly, you cannot get 
>them to not attack a nearby enemy.  This is a source of MANY frustrations.

Actually, this is incorrect.  They will attack anything that comes
into their viewing range if they are just standing around.  They will
also attack anything that attacks them if they are just standing
around.  The important thing to notice here, is that your troops can't
be doing anything.  If you tell a troop to go somewhere, the will walk
there no matter what, even if they are getting pelted by arrows.  This
is sometimes annoying but it's the only way you can retreat without
attacking whoever is following you.

>Carlin
>mar...@on-ramp.ior.com

k...@digital.net (Kevin) wrote:
>DA Svendsen (das...@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au) wrote:
>:I've never done this myself, but I _think_ that you can also tell one of your
>:troops to attack an _area_.  He will move toward the area, attacking anything
>:that threatens him along the way (contrast with the simple move command;
>:your troops move, totally ignoring enemy troops)
>
>  An area? How do you go about making this happen? I know that every once 
>in awhile some of my knights wake up to discover their friend 3 blocks 
>away is being attacked, but not always.
>
>  I either use the grouping command, or move one guy and make others 
>follow the leader. (A habbit from Dune 2)
>
>--
>      ^       
>    _' `_      * Kevin Lo -- http://www.geopages.com/SiliconValley/1070/    
> .-~'   `~-.    - k...@digital.net         * FDC Merlin   
>(  ' __. `  )  * FreeBSD 2.0.5R / DOS     * AKA Radnor on most MUSH/MUSEs
> `-''   ``-'  GCS/MU/Od+H-s!gp?!aua--w++v++C++++HU+P+L3N+++E----KW+M--V---po+
>               Y+t+++5--jRG+@tv++b++D++B---e(+)u++h!f+!rn---x?
>  


Gosh.. 'Attack an area' thing is explained on readme file in WarCraft!
Please, read 'readme' file first..


-JI

In <3v4ire$s...@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca>, jtba...@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca (Jody Thomas Bailey) writes:
>Daniel Goertzen (umgo...@cc.umanitoba.ca) wrote:
>:    This gives me an idea for managing large numbers of troop in WC2.  In 
>: WC1, you could only select up to 4 units at a time and give them simple 
>: move or attack orders.  In WC2, I'd like to see groups of much larger 
>: size and the ability to make them permanent. (eg  Select a group of 8 
>: archers and press the 'form group' button, and then a small icon appears 
>: at the top of the screen.  Clicking on this icon later in the game will 
>: select the 8 archers)  I'd also like to see advanced formation commands 
>: such as 'single file', 'abreast', and 'box' (eg With the archer group 
>: mentioned above, click the 'abreast' button, then click on the enemy 
>: town, then the archers will automatically line up side by side facing the 
>: target)  This would allow the user to spend more time watching the battle 
>: instead of madly pointing and clicking.
>
>:       Dan Goertzen
>
>I totally agree with you. Your suggestion is perfect. I'm a
>person who likes strategy and battle formations are one of my
>favorite thing. Many times I have had a large group of archers,
>or knights that I have wanted to attack in formation and stay in
>formation. I've noticed (especially with Knights) that they tend
>to get strung out in a line. This leaves the second knight open
>to catapult fire (Since the catapult would fire at the first
>knight and naturally hit the second one.). A solid formation
>would prevent this.
>		Jody Bailey

I wish they would allow something similar to the old game Anicent Art
of Warfare.  AOW allowed the creation of squads each with a unique 
formation (chosen from several premade and one definable).  That would 
allow players to not worry about keeping the grunts up front while the 
archers and Cavalry hung back waiting to charge.  I don't know if they 
could design it to be that flexable but it would take a lot of pressure
off the player to keep clicking and selecting targets.

                                               Cor...@IBM.Net

umgo...@cc.umanitoba.ca (Daniel Goertzen) wrote:

>In article <departed...@netcom.com>, depa...@netcom.com says...
>>
>>Minor note on Warcraft:
>>
>>Units can play follow-the-leader.
>>
>>Isn't it annoying when you send a group off somewhere, and since they
>>move at different rates, they all straggle in separately, and probably
>>get slaughtered  ... ?
>(snip)

>   This gives me an idea for managing large numbers of troop in WC2.  In 
>WC1, you could only select up to 4 units at a time and give them simple 
>move or attack orders.  In WC2, I'd like to see groups of much larger 
>size and the ability to make them permanent. (eg  Select a group of 8 
>archers and press the 'form group' button, and then a small icon appears 
>at the top of the screen.  Clicking on this icon later in the game will 
>select the 8 archers)  I'd also like to see advanced formation commands 
>such as 'single file', 'abreast', and 'box' (eg With the archer group 
>mentioned above, click the 'abreast' button, then click on the enemy 
>town, then the archers will automatically line up side by side facing the 
>target)  This would allow the user to spend more time watching the battle 
>instead of madly pointing and clicking.

>      Dan Goertzen

Excellent idea Dan!!  I have been thinking along those same lines, and
it would be great if WCII would incorporate this type of grouping!!  I
would say many battles have been lost due to frantic point and click
operations which could have been avoided with additional code :) 
I don't know if anyone is familiar with the game Empire, but it has
this ability, although somewhat limited since you can't do things like
move in line formations etc.. But then again this is unfeasable in
that game due to the terrain.  Anyway, just thought I'd say you had a
good suggestion there Dan, and all we can do is hope and wait :>

Pete

Ji K. Yu (jky...@psu.edu) wrote:
: Gosh.. 'Attack an area' thing is explained on readme file in WarCraft!
: Please, read 'readme' file first..

  READ the readme?? What kind of person do you take me for? :)

--
      ^       
    _' `_      * Kevin Lo -- http://www.geopages.com/SiliconValley/1070/    
 .-~'   `~-.    - k...@digital.net         * FDC Merlin   
(  ' __. `  )  * FreeBSD 2.0.5R / DOS     * AKA Radnor on most MUSH/MUSEs
 `-''   ``-'  GCS/MU/Od+H-s!gp?!aua--w++v++C++++HU+P+L3N+++E----KW+M--V---po+
               Y+t+++5--jRG+@tv++b++D++B---e(+)u++h!f+!rn---x?
  

In article <3v6nhh$9...@giga.bga.com>, garble@gobledy.gook says...
>umgo...@cc.umanitoba.ca (Daniel Goertzen) wrote:

>>move or attack orders.  In WC2, I'd like to see groups of much larger 
>>size and the ability to make them permanent. (eg  Select a group of 8 
>>archers and press the 'form group' button, and then a small icon appears 
>>at the top of the screen.  Clicking on this icon later in the game will 
>>select the 8 archers)  I'd also like to see advanced formation commands 
>>such as 'single file', 'abreast', and 'box' (eg With the archer group 

>Excellent idea Dan!!  I have been thinking along those same lines, and
>it would be great if WCII would incorporate this type of grouping!!  I
>would say many battles have been lost due to frantic point and click
>operations which could have been avoided with additional code :) 

Yeah, and I'd like to see these permanent units respond as a group 
when enemies approach. I *hate* it when enemies are pounding away on
my archers while a pair of my knights stand two squares away
picking their noses.

Hmm, I'd like to be able to set units to defend things - other units
or buildings. If someone attacks the thing they're defending, the
units should go after the attacker, just like they do when someone
attacks them. Again, it annoys me when I have units standing around
watching enemy spearmen or archers shooting the building next to them.

I spend most of my WC playing time shouting at the stupidity of
my troops. Doesn't have much effect, though.


-- 
/*****************************************************************
          Kief Morris - <http://www.cs.utk.edu/~kmorris>
       Guns don't kill people, violent TV shows kill people.
 *****************************************************************/

Way to go Dan, hope blizzard is reading these posts.
As we all know the shape of a formation in warcraft makes
all the difference in the world whether you win or lose
a battle.  If a unit is killed out of the formation should
it stay in that formation or try to adapt to its programed
shape?  What do you guys think?  I vote to not rechange its
shape till I give it orders to!
Later,
Drone...
j...@cris.com

Kief Morris (ki...@utk.edu) wrote:

: Hmm, I'd like to be able to set units to defend things - other units
: or buildings. If someone attacks the thing they're defending, the
: units should go after the attacker, just like they do when someone
: attacks them. Again, it annoys me when I have units standing around
: watching enemy spearmen or archers shooting the building next to them.

: I spend most of my WC playing time shouting at the stupidity of
: my troops. Doesn't have much effect, though.

Yea, me too.  Problem is that the game is so much fun that you can't just
say screw it and play something else :)
-- 
Eric VanHeest (er...@netcom.com)        Don't ask me, I just eat bananas.

In article <3vb8i5$a9c...@news.cris.com>, j...@cris.com says...
>
>Way to go Dan, hope blizzard is reading these posts.
>As we all know the shape of a formation in warcraft makes
>all the difference in the world whether you win or lose
>a battle.  If a unit is killed out of the formation should
>it stay in that formation or try to adapt to its programed
>shape?  What do you guys think?  I vote to not rechange its
>shape till I give it orders to!

   My initial line of thought was that moving into a formation was a one 
shot deal, and not permanent, but sure, why not have permanent 
formations!  If formations are permanent, I think you should be able to 
choose how strictly the troops stay in formation:  Footman squads should 
be relatively free to attack nearby enemies, but it is important for 
archer squads to keep formation.  Permanent formations could be difficult 
to implement effectively though.  What do you think Blizzard?
   How about multiple level of organisation?  Several units make a squad, 
several squads make a platoon, several platoons make a company, etc etc. 
 Control an entire task force with a single click!

      Dan Goertzen 

r...@tiac.net (Robert Costello) writes:

>Mark or Carlin <markcln> wrote:

>>     You're confused.  Your units automatically attack any enemies that come within a 
>>certain distance.  They are not set to "guard."  Most importantly, you cannot get 
>>them to not attack a nearby enemy.  This is a source of MANY frustrations.

>Actually, this is incorrect.  They will attack anything that comes
>into their viewing range if they are just standing around.  They will
>also attack anything that attacks them if they are just standing
>around.  The important thing to notice here, is that your troops can't
>be doing anything.  If you tell a troop to go somewhere, the will walk
>there no matter what, even if they are getting pelted by arrows.  This
>is sometimes annoying but it's the only way you can retreat without
>attacking whoever is following you.

Yeah, that is annoying.  Perhaps they need two types of move - sort of a
"move aware" and a "move regardless".  The former makes them move but respond
to attacks along the way, the latter is for a retreat or pursuit and makes them
move no matter what.

Awesome game, come on WC2.

Also, I must commend Blizzard on doing what I have always wanted someone to
do: authorise copying the game for the purpose of network game.  My friend
bought it (I'm going to buy WC2!) and so I've only played network because
we're allowed to install the network portion on my computer.  Awesome idea
guys - keep it up!

(Hey, the network starting interface where you see their pointer moving about
it damn good too...)

Rob.

umgo...@cc.umanitoba.ca (Daniel Goertzen) writes:

>   My initial line of thought was that moving into a formation was a one 
>shot deal, and not permanent, but sure, why not have permanent 
>formations!  If formations are permanent, I think you should be able to 
>choose how strictly the troops stay in formation:  Footman squads should 
>be relatively free to attack nearby enemies, but it is important for 
>archer squads to keep formation.  Permanent formations could be difficult 
>to implement effectively though.  What do you think Blizzard?
>   How about multiple level of organisation?  Several units make a squad, 
>several squads make a platoon, several platoons make a company, etc etc. 
> Control an entire task force with a single click!

>      Dan Goertzen 

     Excellent!  I totally agree on all points, however, I also want to be 
able to give more specific orders.  Two types of movement are definitely
a must in WC2.  For lack of better terms, marching and creeping.  Marching 
would be the same as moving in WC1.  The troops ignore everything until they 
reach their destination.  Creeping would allow them to respond to attacks 
enroute.  Defending would be nice, as would patrolling (important as I hear a
new line of sight enemy detection will be implemented).  Larger maps and 
missions are also a requirement. 
-- 
Serve the Emperor.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jon Martin * cs9...@cs.ualberta.ca * http://www.ualberta.ca/~jomartin/
Entering Department of Computing Science at University of Alberta.

In article <3vq1q1$1t...@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>, cs9...@cs.ualberta.ca 
says...
>
>umgo...@cc.umanitoba.ca (Daniel Goertzen) writes:
>
>>   My initial line of thought was that moving into a formation was a one 
>>shot deal, and not permanent, but sure, why not have permanent 
>>formations!  If formations are permanent, I think you should be able to 
>>choose how strictly the troops stay in formation:  Footman squads should 
>>be relatively free to attack nearby enemies, but it is important for 
>>archer squads to keep formation.  Permanent formations could be 
difficult 
>>to implement effectively though.  What do you think Blizzard?
>>   How about multiple level of organisation?  Several units make a 
squad, 
>>several squads make a platoon, several platoons make a company, etc etc. 
>> Control an entire task force with a single click!
>
>>      Dan Goertzen 
>
>     Excellent!  I totally agree on all points, however, I also want to 
be 
>able to give more specific orders.  Two types of movement are definitely
>a must in WC2.  For lack of better terms, marching and creeping.  
Marching 
>would be the same as moving in WC1.  The troops ignore everything until 
they 
>reach their destination.  Creeping would allow them to respond to attacks 
>enroute.  Defending would be nice, as would patrolling (important as I 
hear a
>new line of sight enemy detection will be implemented).  Larger maps and 
>missions are also a requirement. 
>-- 
>Serve the Emperor.
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~
>Jon Martin * cs9...@cs.ualberta.ca * http://www.ualberta.ca/~jomartin/
>Entering Department of Computing Science at University of Alberta.

I think Blizzard did an excellent job of Warcraft and I wouldn't change a 
thing.  Sure it would be nice to have formations, macros to program 
diffrent troop movements, more buttons and tecniques to play with, but 
sometimes too much of something becomes over kill.  I like the fact that 
sometimes you have to sit there and babysit your troops.  Most of my 
tactics I use in battle (and no one has beaten me yet except for my first 
game) only require some fast clicking and troop placement management.  Its 
hard to fathom the amount of time Ive spent moving troops and re-grouping, 
and moving and re-grouping.  I think I have gotten Carpal Tunnel just from 
playing this game, my wife has threatend divorce!!  But the guys at 
Blizzard made an awesome game the first time and I think they'll do an 
even better job at this one.  The screen shots I have seen, make me drool 
all over my keyboard.  I want this game now!!!!!

Just my 2 cents.

Rinkowitz

"I dont have a catchy quote to put on my messages"