Thread View: alt.games.descent
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Started by rms
Tue, 17 Aug 2004 22:41
Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: rms
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 22:41
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 22:41
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http://www.descentbb.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2677&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40&sid=85fc81187384044cca516f891c249e91 They aim for a D1/D2 gameplay, rather than Descent3. Guess we'll see! rms
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: Ped Xing
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 22:58
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 22:58
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"rms" <rsquires@flashREMOVE.net> wrote in news:PQvUc.2164$7Q1.1715@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com: > http://www.descentbb.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2677&postdays=0&postorde > r=asc&start=40&sid=85fc81187384044cca516f891c249e91 I am skeptical, but if something comes of this it could be great. I don't know what it is about the Descent series, but I simply adore it, despite not being very good. In each of the 3 games, I played single-player until I could progress no further. The bots just started wiping the mines with me. And I was too stubborn to set the game to the lowest difficulty level. I fondly recall many hours playing it online as well. Ahh, my poor Microsoft Sidewinder 3D joystick has gone neglected and unused since this series' demise. I think I'm going to have to install Descent 2 (my fav) again, and see if there is a good OpenGL or Direct3D patch for it. -- Ped Xing
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: rms
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 23:16
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 23:16
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> I think I'm going to have to install Descent 2 (my fav) again, and see if
> there is a good OpenGL or Direct3D patch for it.
http://icculus.org/d2x/
Ask if you have any problems running it.
rms
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: Tim O
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 23:26
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 23:26
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On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 22:58:31 GMT, Ped Xing <pedx1ng@lycos.com> wrote: >"rms" <rsquires@flashREMOVE.net> wrote in >news:PQvUc.2164$7Q1.1715@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com: > >> http://www.descentbb.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2677&postdays=0&postorde >> r=asc&start=40&sid=85fc81187384044cca516f891c249e91 > >I am skeptical, but if something comes of this it could be great. I don't >know what it is about the Descent series, but I simply adore it, despite >not being very good. In each of the 3 games, I played single-player until >I could progress no further. The bots just started wiping the mines with >me. And I was too stubborn to set the game to the lowest difficulty level. >I fondly recall many hours playing it online as well. Ahh, my poor >Microsoft Sidewinder 3D joystick has gone neglected and unused since this >series' demise. > >I think I'm going to have to install Descent 2 (my fav) again, and see if >there is a good OpenGL or Direct3D patch for it. Descent was cool for me until I got burned out on having to escape every cave with the timer running. One of those "beat the countdown" missions is OK in a game, 25 isn't. Maybe I missed out, but I never tried either sequel based on that experience. Still willing to give the new game a look though. I loved the freedom of movement.
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: ZiggyPopp
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 03:20
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 03:20
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rms wrote: > http://www.descentbb.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2677&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40&sid=85fc81187384044cca516f891c249e91 > > They aim for a D1/D2 gameplay, rather than Descent3. Guess we'll see! > > rms > > Hi, Can you please explain "They aim for a D1/D2 gameplay, rather than Descent3". I've played much d1 and d2 but never d3 so I don't understand. Thanks
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: Raymond Martineau
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 03:43
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 03:43
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On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 19:26:09 -0400, Tim O <timo56REMOVE@hotmail.com> wrote: >On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 22:58:31 GMT, Ped Xing <pedx1ng@lycos.com> wrote: > >>"rms" <rsquires@flashREMOVE.net> wrote in >>news:PQvUc.2164$7Q1.1715@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com: >> >>> http://www.descentbb.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2677&postdays=0&postorde >>> r=asc&start=40&sid=85fc81187384044cca516f891c249e91 >> >>I am skeptical, but if something comes of this it could be great. I don't >>know what it is about the Descent series, but I simply adore it, despite >>not being very good. In each of the 3 games, I played single-player until >>I could progress no further. The bots just started wiping the mines with >>me. And I was too stubborn to set the game to the lowest difficulty level. >>I fondly recall many hours playing it online as well. Ahh, my poor >>Microsoft Sidewinder 3D joystick has gone neglected and unused since this >>series' demise. >> >>I think I'm going to have to install Descent 2 (my fav) again, and see if >>there is a good OpenGL or Direct3D patch for it. > >Descent was cool for me until I got burned out on having to escape >every cave with the timer running. One of those "beat the countdown" >missions is OK in a game, 25 isn't. Maybe I missed out, but I never >tried either sequel based on that experience. D3 cut down significantly on the "beat the countdown", and instead replaced it with mission-based objectives - just like those other FPS/groundpounder games. Even so, the countdown is only really a threat on the upper difficulty levels, where you only have 30 seconds to reach the exit (it's generally recommended that you find the exit before destroying the final opponent. Even if you didn't, the guidebot in D2 could easily point the way.) There are only three cases in Descent 3 where you must do something within a timelimit. Of those three, the timer is either generous enough, or you have multiple attempts to perform the task.
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: walter mitty
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 03:43
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 03:43
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rms wrote: > http://www.descentbb.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2677&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40&sid=85fc81187384044cca516f891c249e91 > > They aim for a D1/D2 gameplay, rather than Descent3. Guess we'll see! > > rms > > D1 : the first true 3d game IMO. Jesus that rocked. Plasma cannons, mega missiles (with rivets). Sigh. Fully lan enabled. Awesome.
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: walter mitty
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 03:45
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 03:45
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ZiggyPopp wrote: > rms wrote: > >> http://www.descentbb.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2677&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40&sid=85fc81187384044cca516f891c249e91 >> >> >> They aim for a D1/D2 gameplay, rather than Descent3. Guess we'll see! >> >> rms >> > > Hi, > Can you please explain "They aim for a D1/D2 gameplay, rather than > Descent3". > I've played much d1 and d2 but never d3 so I don't understand. > > Thanks > D3 was more "engine" than substance - some of the dickwads here would cream themselves about the engines ability to move "seamlessly" between tight indoor "corridoor" scenarios to wide open outdoor maps. Frankly I was unimpressed because they threw the baby out with the bathwater : eg the gameplay sucked.
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: Paul Angstrom
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 04:14
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 04:14
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On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 05:43:48 +0200, walter mitty <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message <cfuj9l$10u$05$1@news.t-online.com>: >D1 : the first true 3d game IMO. I'm pretty sure there's a sizable number of 3D flight sim games that preceded Descent by a long shot. -- A: Because it disturbs the logical flow of a message. Q: Why is top posting a sloppy form of writing?
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: Monster
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 06:06
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 06:06
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you missed what he meant by 3D. You can fake 3D in 2D. "Paul Angstrom" <angstrom@go.away.spammers.invalid> wrote in message news:mml5i094sd8g79lpmiohfi6etc5ug5oc9p@news... > On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 05:43:48 +0200, walter mitty <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> > wrote in message <cfuj9l$10u$05$1@news.t-online.com>: > >>D1 : the first true 3d game IMO. > > I'm pretty sure there's a sizable number of 3D flight sim games that > preceded Descent by a long shot. > > > -- > A: Because it disturbs the logical flow of a message. > Q: Why is top posting a sloppy form of writing? >
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: Paul Angstrom
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 06:51
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 06:51
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On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 02:06:56 -0400, "Monster" <monster.this@monster.that> wrote in message <4122f1f8$0$56172$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>: >"Paul Angstrom" <angstrom@go.away.spammers.invalid> wrote in message >news:mml5i094sd8g79lpmiohfi6etc5ug5oc9p@news... >> On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 05:43:48 +0200, walter mitty <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> >> wrote in message <cfuj9l$10u$05$1@news.t-online.com>: >> >>>D1 : the first true 3d game IMO. >> >> I'm pretty sure there's a sizable number of 3D flight sim games that >> preceded Descent by a long shot. > >you missed what he meant by 3D. You can fake 3D in 2D. Descent came out in 1995. It used a software-rendered 3D polygonal engine. All of the following games used a software-rendered fully 3D polygonal engine: Tie Fighter (1994) X-Wing (1993) F-15 Strike Eagle III (1992) F-117 Stealth Fighter 2.0 (1991) Falcon 3.0 (1991) Dragon Strike (1990) Red Baron (1990) A-10 Tank Killer (1989) Ultima Underworld, which was an RPG (not even a flight sim), preceded Descent by 2 years with a fully 3D engine. -- A: Because it disturbs the logical flow of a message. Q: Why is top posting a sloppy form of writing?
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: Andrew
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 09:13
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 09:13
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On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 23:51:39 -0700, Paul Angstrom <angstrom@go.away.spammers.invalid> wrote: >All of the following games used a software-rendered fully 3D polygonal >engine: The first one I remember was Driller on the 8bit machines, some time around 1983 I think. It was a pretty dire game, but it did have a 3D engine. -- Andrew. To email unscramble nrc@gurjevgrzrboivbhf.pbz & remove spamtrap. Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards, please don't top post. Trim messages to quote only relevant text. Check groups.google.com before asking a question.
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: pastorJohn
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:14
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:14
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Except... None of those games gave you the ability to roll / pitch / yaw and MOVE in both directions on all 3 axes. What mmade D1 so different was the stop, rotate, back up, slide abilities in true 3 dimensions. It was what made the game so frustrating to learn for newbies. I don't recall anyone getting vertigo or motion sickness from any of those other games. Descent was - and is - a different thing altogether. It also really was never seen as a flight sim, at least within the Descent community over all. At least that was the tone I get here on this newsgroup. There is no takeoff / landing. THere you are, floating at your insertion point, and you just get on with it and move around. No complicated procedures, no runway, just go hunting. The 3d engine itself was awesome at the time, especially for a time when 486s were the norm for new desktops. Pentium was still out there for a lot of players. Yet, I could run D1 on a 486 smoothly enough to play the whole game through. Were there better? Possibly, but for its day it was an awesome game. Still is to me. John Kiehn pastorJohn Why? Because my brain can follow a conversation and I hate to scroll down when going through a thread because people can't snip (See below) Top posting to this group since 1996 On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 23:51:39 -0700, Paul Angstrom <angstrom@go.away.spammers.invalid> wrote: **SNIP**> >Tie Fighter (1994) >X-Wing (1993) >F-15 Strike Eagle III (1992) >F-117 Stealth Fighter 2.0 (1991) >Falcon 3.0 (1991) >Dragon Strike (1990) >Red Baron (1990) >A-10 Tank Killer (1989) > >Ultima Underworld, which was an RPG (not even a flight sim), preceded >Descent by 2 years with a fully 3D engine. > > >-- >A: Because it disturbs the logical flow of a message. >Q: Why is top posting a sloppy form of writing? >
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: walter mitty
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:14
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 11:14
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Paul Angstrom wrote: > On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 05:43:48 +0200, walter mitty <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> > wrote in message <cfuj9l$10u$05$1@news.t-online.com>: > > >>D1 : the first true 3d game IMO. > > > I'm pretty sure there's a sizable number of 3D flight sim games that > preceded Descent by a long shot. > none of which (to my knowledge) were multiplayer megathrill action blasters.
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: Lueder Hoppe
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 12:09
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 12:09
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"pastorJohn" <fake@spambuster.ca> wrote: <snip> In addition to Johns informations Descent(1) was the first game with dynamic lighting. Descent was the first game that made it possible to light a room with shots or flares or even the engine glow, including the bug that a door sometimes started to glow when someone behind flew close to it... Lueder
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: Rick Russell
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:17
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:17
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In article <Xns9548C10652A06pedx1nglycoscom@140.99.99.130>, Ped Xing <pedx1ng@lycos.com> wrote: > I think I'm going to have to install Descent 2 (my fav) again, and see if > there is a good OpenGL or Direct3D patch for it. There was a Windows 95/Direct X patch for Descent, but I couldn't get it to work right under Windows. Instead, try D2X: http://www.icculus.org/d2x/ I haven't been able to compile it directly from source, though. But I'm a wuss. Rick R.
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: stePH
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:20
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:20
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Raymond Martineau wrote: > On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 19:26:09 -0400, Tim O <timo56REMOVE@hotmail.com> wrote: > >>Descent was cool for me until I got burned out on having to escape >>every cave with the timer running. One of those "beat the countdown" >>missions is OK in a game, 25 isn't. Maybe I missed out, but I never >>tried either sequel based on that experience. > > > D3 cut down significantly on the "beat the countdown", and instead replaced > it with mission-based objectives - just like those other FPS/groundpounder > games. Even so, the countdown is only really a threat on the upper > difficulty levels, where you only have 30 seconds to reach the exit (it's > generally recommended that you find the exit before destroying the final > opponent. Even if you didn't, the guidebot in D2 could easily point the > way.) Rover was too slow to get me to the exit in time. In a couple of cases I even had to use the afterburner to make it. stePH -- "A lion will exert himself to the utmost, even when entering the tiger's den to throw baby rabbits off a cliff!" -- Moroboshi Ataru
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: stePH
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:22
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:22
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Paul Angstrom wrote: > On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 05:43:48 +0200, walter mitty <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> > wrote in message <cfuj9l$10u$05$1@news.t-online.com>: > > >>D1 : the first true 3d game IMO. > > > I'm pretty sure there's a sizable number of 3D flight sim games that > preceded Descent by a long shot. To say nothing of Ultima Underworld, which predated even Doom. stePH -- "A lion will exert himself to the utmost, even when entering the tiger's den to throw baby rabbits off a cliff!" -- Moroboshi Ataru
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: walter mitty
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 15:50
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 15:50
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stePH wrote: > Paul Angstrom wrote: > >> On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 05:43:48 +0200, walter mitty <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> >> wrote in message <cfuj9l$10u$05$1@news.t-online.com>: >> >> >>> D1 : the first true 3d game IMO. >> >> >> >> I'm pretty sure there's a sizable number of 3D flight sim games that >> preceded Descent by a long shot. > > > To say nothing of Ultima Underworld, which predated even Doom. > None of which are in the same action category IMO.
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: Les
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:16
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:16
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Andrew wrote: > On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 23:51:39 -0700, Paul Angstrom > <angstrom@go.away.spammers.invalid> wrote: > > >>All of the following games used a software-rendered fully 3D polygonal >>engine: > > > The first one I remember was Driller on the 8bit machines, some time > around 1983 I think. It was a pretty dire game, but it did have a 3D > engine. Driller was class! Came out around 1987 though, I had it for my Amstrad CPC464 with colour monitor!! Also Tau Ceti was fully 3d and was out around the same time. -- Les AMD64 3200+ 2x512 MB corsair platinum 3500 Gigabyte GA-K8VNXP Leadtek A400 GT SB Audigy
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: stePH
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 18:55
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 18:55
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walter mitty wrote: > stePH wrote: > >> Paul Angstrom wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 05:43:48 +0200, walter mitty <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> >>> wrote in message <cfuj9l$10u$05$1@news.t-online.com>: >>> >>> >>>> D1 : the first true 3d game IMO. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I'm pretty sure there's a sizable number of 3D flight sim games that >>> preceded Descent by a long shot. >> >> >> >> To say nothing of Ultima Underworld, which predated even Doom. >> > > None of which are in the same action category IMO. They still had true 3D long before Descent, which was the point being made in this subthread. stePH -- "A lion will exert himself to the utmost, even when entering the tiger's den to throw baby rabbits off a cliff!" -- Moroboshi Ataru
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: Paul Angstrom
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 19:01
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 19:01
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On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:50:44 +0200, walter mitty <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message <cfvtsl$3t3$03$1@news.t-online.com>: >stePH wrote: >> Paul Angstrom wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 05:43:48 +0200, walter mitty <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> >>> wrote in message <cfuj9l$10u$05$1@news.t-online.com>: >>> >>>> D1 : the first true 3d game IMO. >>> >>> I'm pretty sure there's a sizable number of 3D flight sim games that >>> preceded Descent by a long shot. >> >> To say nothing of Ultima Underworld, which predated even Doom. > >None of which are in the same action category IMO. Ultima Underworld and flight sims such as Falcon 3.0 may not be in the same action category, but they were "true 3D games" that preceded Descent. Underworld even allowed the player to fly, although it did not allow you to roll. -- A: Because it disturbs the logical flow of a message. Q: Why is top posting a sloppy form of writing?
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: walter mitty
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 19:31
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 19:31
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Paul Angstrom wrote: > On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:50:44 +0200, walter mitty <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> > wrote in message <cfvtsl$3t3$03$1@news.t-online.com>: > > >>stePH wrote: >> >>>Paul Angstrom wrote: >>> >>> >>>>On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 05:43:48 +0200, walter mitty <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> >>>>wrote in message <cfuj9l$10u$05$1@news.t-online.com>: >>>> >>>> >>>>>D1 : the first true 3d game IMO. >>>> >>>>I'm pretty sure there's a sizable number of 3D flight sim games that >>>>preceded Descent by a long shot. >>> >>>To say nothing of Ultima Underworld, which predated even Doom. >> >>None of which are in the same action category IMO. > > > Ultima Underworld and flight sims such as Falcon 3.0 may not be in the > same action category, but they were "true 3D games" that preceded > Descent. Underworld even allowed the player to fly, although it did not > allow you to roll. > I landed myself in it. "True 3d network action game". IMO of course.
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: dexter
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 02:43
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 02:43
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In article <PQvUc.2164$7Q1.1715@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com>, rsquires@flashREMOVE.net says... > http://www.descentbb.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2677&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40&sid=85fc81187384044cca516f891c249e91 > > They aim for a D1/D2 gameplay, rather than Descent3. Guess we'll see! > > rms > > > whats the diff?
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: Raymond Martineau
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 03:30
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 03:30
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On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 05:45:28 +0200, walter mitty <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >ZiggyPopp wrote: > >> rms wrote: >> >>> http://www.descentbb.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2677&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40&sid=85fc81187384044cca516f891c249e91 >>> >>> >>> They aim for a D1/D2 gameplay, rather than Descent3. Guess we'll see! >>> >>> rms >>> >> >> Hi, >> Can you please explain "They aim for a D1/D2 gameplay, rather than >> Descent3". >> I've played much d1 and d2 but never d3 so I don't understand. >> >> Thanks >> > >D3 was more "engine" than substance - some of the dickwads here would >cream themselves about the engines ability to move "seamlessly" between >tight indoor "corridoor" scenarios to wide open outdoor maps. Actually that isn't true. I've managed to find one place where the transition between the surface and underground affects gameplay. It is minor, but involved the inability of the headlight to cross the boundry in one of the enterences to the base on mission 15. >Frankly I >was unimpressed because they threw the baby out with the bathwater : eg >the gameplay sucked. The gameplay in D3 is no different than that in D2 - it's a fact that was only noticed on the third iteration, as around that time, people were beginning to find that FPS games were generally the same "move backward and attack" style of combat. In fact, the gameplay in D3 was saved by the fact that the enemy AI players actually know how to dodge on the higher difficulty levels. This makes the game very hard on those difficulties, but it is one of the only games that results in dogfights because of the slightly improved AI. (Of course, it does have targetting bugs which still need to be fixed - not sure if they were present in 1.0 or if they were introduced in a patch..)
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: Raymond Martineau
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 03:56
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 03:56
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On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 23:51:39 -0700, Paul Angstrom <angstrom@go.away.spammers.invalid> wrote: >On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 02:06:56 -0400, "Monster" ><monster.this@monster.that> wrote in message ><4122f1f8$0$56172$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>: > >>"Paul Angstrom" <angstrom@go.away.spammers.invalid> wrote in message >>news:mml5i094sd8g79lpmiohfi6etc5ug5oc9p@news... >>> On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 05:43:48 +0200, walter mitty <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> >>> wrote in message <cfuj9l$10u$05$1@news.t-online.com>: >>> >>>>D1 : the first true 3d game IMO. >>> >>> I'm pretty sure there's a sizable number of 3D flight sim games that >>> preceded Descent by a long shot. >> >>you missed what he meant by 3D. You can fake 3D in 2D. > >Descent came out in 1995. It used a software-rendered 3D polygonal >engine. Actually, Descent appeared in Descember 1994, as the initial 1.0 Shareware version. What made the game significant was that it could handle both 3D-models and 3D maps and still work on the old computers. Not only that, but the Models and Maps were both textured, one of the few things that was implemented in such an environment. The reason Descent is considered the first true-3D game is because it was the first game where 3D-Graphics actually came to life (that, and the six-degrees of movement for the player character.) > >All of the following games used a software-rendered fully 3D polygonal >engine: > >Tie Fighter (1994) >X-Wing (1993) In these two cases, the software rendering handles ship models. With the exception of the Death Star missions, there is no planetary surface to worry about. >F-15 Strike Eagle III (1992) >F-117 Stealth Fighter 2.0 (1991) >Falcon 3.0 (1991) >Dragon Strike (1990) >Red Baron (1990) >A-10 Tank Killer (1989) In a significant number of these games, the things to worry about would be the ground, and the aircraft/whatever models. Given the processing power, the ship models were mainly a set of uni-colored polygons. They were 3D, but not overly impressive. >Ultima Underworld, which was an RPG (not even a flight sim), preceded >Descent by 2 years with a fully 3D engine. IIRC, Ultima Underworld used 2D sprites for some of the monsters (at least in the demo version). In addition, there is warping of the walls and floors at the edges of the FOV, and level construction indicates that the game uses vertical walls in the style of Doom. Also, the engine used seems to have an extremely low rendering distance, an indication that the computers released around that time could barely process something of the complexity of Doom.
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: Moon
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:57
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:57
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Paul Angstrom schrieb: > On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 05:43:48 +0200, walter mitty <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> > wrote in message <cfuj9l$10u$05$1@news.t-online.com>: > >>D1 : the first true 3d game IMO. > > I'm pretty sure there's a sizable number of 3D flight sim games that > preceded Descent by a long shot. None of which allowed that kinda 360 degrees of freedom that Descent did. Strafing is a must have feature! -- Moon's Descendarium - THE single-player guide to D1-D3 http://moon.descent-3.com Maintainer of The 'Official' D3 FAQ http://www.descent-3.com/faq/
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: walter mitty
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:57
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:57
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Raymond Martineau wrote: > On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 05:45:28 +0200, walter mitty <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> > wrote: > > >>ZiggyPopp wrote: >> >> >>>rms wrote: >>> >>> >>>>http://www.descentbb.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2677&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40&sid=85fc81187384044cca516f891c249e91 >>>> >>>> >>>>They aim for a D1/D2 gameplay, rather than Descent3. Guess we'll see! >>>> >>>>rms >>>> >>> >>>Hi, >>>Can you please explain "They aim for a D1/D2 gameplay, rather than >>>Descent3". >>>I've played much d1 and d2 but never d3 so I don't understand. >>> >>>Thanks >>> >> >>D3 was more "engine" than substance - some of the dickwads here would >>cream themselves about the engines ability to move "seamlessly" between >>tight indoor "corridoor" scenarios to wide open outdoor maps. > > > Actually that isn't true. I've managed to find one place where the > transition between the surface and underground affects gameplay. It is > minor, but involved the inability of the headlight to cross the boundry in > one of the enterences to the base on mission 15. > > >>Frankly I >>was unimpressed because they threw the baby out with the bathwater : eg >>the gameplay sucked. > > > The gameplay in D3 is no different than that in D2 - it's a fact that was > only noticed on the third iteration, as around that time, people were > beginning to find that FPS games were generally the same "move backward and > attack" style of combat. > > In fact, the gameplay in D3 was saved by the fact that the enemy AI players > actually know how to dodge on the higher difficulty levels. This makes the > game very hard on those difficulties, but it is one of the only games that > results in dogfights because of the slightly improved AI. (Of course, it > does have targetting bugs which still need to be fixed - not sure if they > were present in 1.0 or if they were introduced in a patch..) > > All valid points. The main problem is the "been there done that" feeling. D1 was unique : I was never so addicted to a game (LAN that is!). Its very, very hard for developers to do something now which has the same "omegod" factor. Sure, graphics get a little neater, suond a little nicer, but so many avenues have already been mapped.
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: Bateau
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:21
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:21
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Andrew <spamtrap@localhost> wrote:
>On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 23:51:39 -0700, Paul Angstrom
><angstrom@go.away.spammers.invalid> wrote:
>
>>All of the following games used a software-rendered fully 3D polygonal
>>engine:
>
>The first one I remember was Driller on the 8bit machines, some time
>around 1983 I think. It was a pretty dire game, but it did have a 3D
>engine.
Do we need to have this "What was the first true 3D game" argument every
week? Half the time no one even gets within 10 years of finding out what
the first true 3D game was.
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L \| >|| `--' J |' .`::\ `.:' .::::::::/ .' F
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`-.-' K I N G O F T H E M O N S T E R S
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: Bateau
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:23
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:23
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walter mitty <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>Paul Angstrom wrote:
>> On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:50:44 +0200, walter mitty <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk>
>> wrote in message <cfvtsl$3t3$03$1@news.t-online.com>:
>>
>>
>>>stePH wrote:
>>>
>>>>Paul Angstrom wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 05:43:48 +0200, walter mitty <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>>wrote in message <cfuj9l$10u$05$1@news.t-online.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>D1 : the first true 3d game IMO.
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm pretty sure there's a sizable number of 3D flight sim games that
>>>>>preceded Descent by a long shot.
>>>>
>>>>To say nothing of Ultima Underworld, which predated even Doom.
>>>
>>>None of which are in the same action category IMO.
>>
>> Ultima Underworld and flight sims such as Falcon 3.0 may not be in the
>> same action category, but they were "true 3D games" that preceded
>> Descent. Underworld even allowed the player to fly, although it did not
>> allow you to roll.
>>
>
>I landed myself in it. "True 3d network action game". IMO of course.
What kind of engine did Air Warrior use?
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J / | | | \ L J J | | `:::::::. `:::::::.
FJ | | | |L J/ / | \ :::::::. :::::::\
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J | |J:::::::|| | | | _/\ | :::::::: ::::::::| /(@ o`.
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`-.-' K I N G O F T H E M O N S T E R S
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: stePH
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:44
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:44
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dexter wrote: > In article <PQvUc.2164$7Q1.1715@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com>, > rsquires@flashREMOVE.net says... > >>http://www.descentbb.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2677&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40&sid=85fc81187384044cca516f891c249e91 >> >>They aim for a D1/D2 gameplay, rather than Descent3. Guess we'll see! >> >>rms >> >> >> > > > whats the diff? Less mission-based gameplay, would be my guess. stePH -- "A lion will exert himself to the utmost, even when entering the tiger's den to throw baby rabbits off a cliff!" -- Moroboshi Ataru
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: Steveski
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:22
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:22
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"Bateau" <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> wrote in message news:dfh9i0106o29upbhe7iqju9pb0tlrc4gq6@4ax.com... > walter mitty <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >Paul Angstrom wrote: > >> On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:50:44 +0200, walter mitty <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> > >> wrote in message <cfvtsl$3t3$03$1@news.t-online.com>: > >> > >> > >>>stePH wrote: > >>> > >>>>Paul Angstrom wrote: [snip] > >>3D games" that preceded > >> Descent. Underworld even allowed the player to fly, although it did not > >> allow you to roll. > >> > > > >I landed myself in it. "True 3d network action game". IMO of course. > > What kind of engine did Air Warrior use? A supercharged Bentley 51/2 litre, old chap . . . Steveski -- We are Pentium. Division is futile. You will be approximated.
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: ... et al.
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 18:45
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 18:45
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Bateau wrote: > Andrew <spamtrap@localhost> wrote: > >>On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 23:51:39 -0700, Paul Angstrom >><angstrom@go.away.spammers.invalid> wrote: >> >> >>>All of the following games used a software-rendered fully 3D polygonal >>>engine: >> >>The first one I remember was Driller on the 8bit machines, some time >>around 1983 I think. It was a pretty dire game, but it did have a 3D >>engine. > > > Do we need to have this "What was the first true 3D game" argument every > week? Half the time no one even gets within 10 years of finding out what > the first true 3D game was. If you ask that ... You gotta ask yourself one question: Do we really need to look at the same old ASCII-art every time a particular poster posts? All the time it has absolutely no bearing on the topic at hand. Do you feel lucky? .. viking-punk .. hmm, do you? -- Please followup in newsgroup. E-mail address is invalid due to spam-control.
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: stePH
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 16:05
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 16:05
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... et al. wrote: > Do we really need to look at the same old ASCII-art every time a > particular poster posts? All the time it has absolutely no bearing on > the topic at hand. Why don't you just bin him? I've never seen Bateau have anything interesting to post, and that skeleton gets old by the second viewing. stePH -- "A lion will exert himself to the utmost, even when entering the tiger's den to throw baby rabbits off a cliff!" -- Moroboshi Ataru
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: ... et al.
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 05:57
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 05:57
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stePH wrote: > ... et al. wrote: > >> Do we really need to look at the same old ASCII-art every time a >> particular poster posts? All the time it has absolutely no bearing on >> the topic at hand. > > Why don't you just bin him? I've never seen Bateau have anything > interesting to post, and that skeleton gets old by the second viewing. > I don't mind Bateau's succinct one- (or sometimes two-) liners. It's the other 60 or 70 lines .. Just thought i take a stab at Bateau for including them as he complained about something that is on topic (even if repetetive if you're an oldie/regular in the group(s) as Bateau is). Don't really expect any change though. -- Please followup in newsgroup. E-mail address is invalid due to spam-control.
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: ... et al.
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 06:04
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 06:04
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stePH wrote: > ... et al. wrote: > >> Do we really need to look at the same old ASCII-art every time a >> particular poster posts? All the time it has absolutely no bearing on >> the topic at hand. > > Why don't you just bin him? I've never seen Bateau have anything > interesting to post, and that skeleton gets old by the second viewing. > I don't mind Bateau's succinct one- (or sometimes two-) liners. It's the other 60 or 70 ... I just couldn't resist taking a stab at Bateau for including them as he complained about something that is on topic (even if repetetive if you're an oldie/regular in the group(s) as Bateau is). Don't really expect any change though. There have been so many stabs to that goal before mine. -- Please followup in newsgroup. E-mail address is invalid due to spam-control.
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: Bateau
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 13:31
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 13:31
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stePH <acetheta@earthlink.net> wrote:
>... et al. wrote:
>
>> Do we really need to look at the same old ASCII-art every time a
>> particular poster posts? All the time it has absolutely no bearing on
>> the topic at hand.
>
>Why don't you just bin him? I've never seen Bateau have anything
>interesting to post, and that skeleton gets old by the second viewing.
Haha I haven't used mr skeleton for months :D
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.-' `. /| | \
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.-' ___ `-. F F | | ||`-.___
.'.-' | `-. `. J J / | || _.>
/ /| | |`. \ | | |/ | ||_.-'
/ / | | | `. `. F F | |==============================
J / | | | \ L J J | | `:::::::. `:::::::.
FJ | | | |L J/ / | \ :::::::. :::::::\
J |() | () | () | () | J L/ | | ::::::: :::::::L
| F | .-'_ \ | | LJ | / L :::::::: :::::::J
| L | / \\ | | | L | | :::::::: ::::::::L
| L || ):|| | | | /| L :::::::: ::::::::|
J | ||:._.'::|| | | |----' | | :::::::: ::::::::| .---.
J | |J:::::::|| | | | _/\ | :::::::: ::::::::| /(@ o`.
LJ | \:::::/ | | | |---'\ | | :::::::: ::::::::| | /^^^
J L | `-:-' | | | F | \ | J :::::::: ::::::::| \ . \vvv
LJ()| () | () | () | F F | \ \--._L :::::::: ::::::::| \ `--'
J \ | | | | J J \ | | :::::::: ::::::::| \ `.
\ \| | | | / / | | | :::::::: ::::::::| L \
\ \ | | |/ /| | | .-'| :::::::: ::::::::| | \
`.`. | | .'.' | | |/ /`L :::::::: ::::::::| | L
| `.`-.____|.-'.-' | | | <`. \ :::::::: ::::::::| | |
| | `-.______.-' | \| |_`::\ `. :::::::: ::::::::| F |
| J\ | | | | /: \::. \:::::::: ::::::::F / |
| L\|--| | _.--|:: `::\ `.:::::: .:::::::J / F
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L \| >|| `--' J |' .`::\ `.:' .::::::::/ .' F
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L |< |J |\=/| ( _ \=/ _ `::\ `. \=/ _ \=/ _ \ /
J |\\|J | | / )_) | (_) \::. \ | (_) | (_) | /
\ |--|J |//\\ / //\ //`::\ `./\ //\ / .'
\| |L ` )/ )` `' '|`---// `---// `\::. \ `---// `---' .'
VK________| L_\ ' /___/ ' | |___//______//_____`::\ |___//_________.'_________
F F J`` -'| | | | | \:_|
`-' | "" | J ` |
| | L | |\ |\ /| /| |\ /|
| | \ | | \ | \ // // | \ || |\
J | `. | ||\\ ||\\ // // ||\\ || ||
L F )`---\ || >> || \\ / | << || \\ || ||
| J / `. ||// || || //|| \\ || || || ||
J J ( `-. |// | \ || |/ || \\ | \ || || ||
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| J `. ) ||\\ || \ | || // || \ | || ||
/ | `-----' || >> || || || // || || \\ ||
/ F ||// || || || << || || \\||
J J | / |/ || |/ \\ |/ || \ |
J | |/ \| \| \| \|
`-.-' K I N G O F T H E M O N S T E R S
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: Ajay Tanwar
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 19:33
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 19:33
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"... et al." <look@sig.bcause.this.is.invalid> thought that a good way to threaten somebody was to light a stick of dynamite, then call the guy and hold the burning fuse up to the phone and say: > I don't mind Bateau's succinct one- (or sometimes two-) liners. > It's the other 60 or 70 ... The only reason I haven't plonked him yet is because XNews automatically skips sigs. Hurray for XNews! -- Ajay Tanwar | MCSE | ajtanwar@spam.yahoo.com "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." -Despair.com
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: Arby
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 07:32
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 07:32
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Yes, The gameplay in Descent 3 didn't work. The baby indeed went out with the bath water. Descent 2 works... magnificently. It's just a freaking fun ride. If only the levels were unlimited and the game would play on my xp home. I gave the game away once I realized I couldn't play it anymore anyway. Then someone told me that they could get it to play on my xp home easily. Oh well. I might be interested in buying the game again, but I am not sure it's worth it. Afterall, I've played it numerous times already. And I don't know how to get others' levels. I'm stupid when it comes to computers. I'm not the dumbest user, but...
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: Bateau
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 09:04
Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 09:04
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"Arby" <rbattams@rogers.com> wrote: >Yes, The gameplay in Descent 3 didn't work. The baby indeed went out with >the bath water. Descent 2 works... magnificently. It's just a freaking fun >ride. If only the levels were unlimited and the game would play on my xp >home. I gave the game away once I realized I couldn't play it anymore >anyway. Then someone told me that they could get it to play on my xp home >easily. Oh well. I might be interested in buying the game again, but I am >not sure it's worth it. Afterall, I've played it numerous times already. And >I don't know how to get others' levels. I'm stupid when it comes to >computers. I'm not the dumbest user, but... Descent is crap.
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: rms
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:27
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:27
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> Descent 2 works... magnificently. It's just a freaking fun ride. If only
> the levels were unlimited and the game would play on my xp home.
You need to use D2X with your Descent2 install, and adjust the framerate
limiter to 35fps or so, and it should operate identically to the original
game under XP:
http://icculus.org/d2x/
rms
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: Walter Mitty
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 15:57
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 15:57
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Bateau wrote: > "Arby" <rbattams@rogers.com> wrote: > >>Yes, The gameplay in Descent 3 didn't work. The baby indeed went out with >>the bath water. Descent 2 works... magnificently. It's just a freaking fun >>ride. If only the levels were unlimited and the game would play on my xp >>home. I gave the game away once I realized I couldn't play it anymore >>anyway. Then someone told me that they could get it to play on my xp home >>easily. Oh well. I might be interested in buying the game again, but I am >>not sure it's worth it. Afterall, I've played it numerous times already. And >>I don't know how to get others' levels. I'm stupid when it comes to >>computers. I'm not the dumbest user, but... > > > Descent is crap. Must be. It was my all time favorite office MP game of all time. And the first true 3d action MP game. Excellent game. -- Walter Mitty - Useless, waste of money research of the day : http://tinyurl.com/3tdeu " Format wars could 'confuse users'" http://www.tinyurl.com
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: Doug
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 19:06
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 19:06
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What about Terminator: Future Shock? I think it came about before Descent and was true 3d and had multiplayer (IPX) and driveable vehicles. -- there is no .sig "Walter Mitty" <mitticus@gmail.com> wrote in message news:3kn4ruFuunptU3@uni-berlin.de... > Bateau wrote: >> "Arby" <rbattams@rogers.com> wrote: >> >>>Yes, The gameplay in Descent 3 didn't work. The baby indeed went out with >>>the bath water. Descent 2 works... magnificently. It's just a freaking >>>fun ride. If only the levels were unlimited and the game would play on my >>>xp home. I gave the game away once I realized I couldn't play it anymore >>>anyway. Then someone told me that they could get it to play on my xp home >>>easily. Oh well. I might be interested in buying the game again, but I am >>>not sure it's worth it. Afterall, I've played it numerous times already. >>>And I don't know how to get others' levels. I'm stupid when it comes to >>>computers. I'm not the dumbest user, but... >> >> >> Descent is crap. > > Must be. It was my all time favorite office MP game of all time. And the > first true 3d action MP game. > > Excellent game. > > -- > Walter Mitty > - > Useless, waste of money research of the day : http://tinyurl.com/3tdeu > " Format wars could 'confuse users'" > http://www.tinyurl.com >
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: Bateau
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 02:21
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 02:21
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"Doug" <pigdos@nospam.com> wrote: >What about Terminator: Future Shock? I think it came about before Descent >and was true 3d and had multiplayer (IPX) and driveable vehicles. As usual whenever someone says "such and such well known game was the first 3d blah blah blah" its wrong, and a fucking stupid thing to think in the first place.
Re: Rumours of a new Descent clone in development !!
Author: LEF
Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:00
Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 09:00
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rms wrote: >>Descent 2 works... magnificently. It's just a freaking fun ride. If only >>the levels were unlimited and the game would play on my xp home. > > > You need to use D2X with your Descent2 install, and adjust the framerate > limiter to 35fps or so, and it should operate identically to the original > game under XP: > http://icculus.org/d2x/ > > rms > > Actually, the best place to get it is here http://www.brockart.de/descent/d2x.html its a more recent build than you can find on the D2x developers site. Works a treat - a real nostalgia trip. You need the original though, so you might still have to buy it if you ..... gave it away? tch tch Lef
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