🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <DUBACH1.95...@fas.harvard.edu>,
Joev Dubach <dub...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote:
>I would like to know if there is any programmatic way to prevent
>opponents from using these cheats, or at the very least, to be
>notified that they are being used.  If there isn't, why doesn't
>Parallax release an upgrade that prevents these tactics to some
>degree?  It hurts network play to even think it possible that somebody
>could be cheating against you.

I would hope there would be a way to detect it somehow, via a checksum, or
other mechanism...  Question for Parallax: is net cheating possible with a
third party patch?

>From one joev to another... And I thought I was the only one.. :)

>Joev                            <URL:"http://www.math.harvard.edu/~joev/">

-- 
jo...@wpi.edu               WPI Computer Science '97                      Linux!
             <a href="http://www.wpi.edu/~joev"> Click Here! </a>

I'll say this slowly so its clear.  There are NO cheats in network or
serial mode in any version of Descent.  Nor will there be.  However
we disclaim all responsibility if people modify the programs we shipped.
This is not only unfair and unsportsmanlike, it is a violation of the
software licensing agreement and thus illegal.
----
Robert Huebner
Interplay Productions

Joev Dubach (dub...@fas.harvard.edu) wrote:
: It is my understanding that there is a patch to the registered Descent
: executable that allows one to use the normal gabbagabbahey cheat codes
: during network play.  Also, though I don't have concrete evidence, I
: believe there is a cheat sequence that works on the unmodified
: registered Descent, causing one to become invulnerable for an
: arbitrary amount of time.

	What the hell is so fun about using cheat codes to beat your 
opponents?  I for one know that if I ever discovered my opponent was 
using cheat codes to try and get an advantage over me, I'd never play him 
again and I'd make sure I told as many people as possible that he uses them.

In article <virtuallD...@netcom.com>,  <virt...@netcom.com> wrote:
>I'll say this slowly so its clear.  There are NO cheats in network or
>serial mode in any version of Descent.  Nor will there be.  However
>we disclaim all responsibility if people modify the programs we shipped.
>This is not only unfair and unsportsmanlike, it is a violation of the
>software licensing agreement and thus illegal.

Umm... even though the first part of the original poster's message may have
looked like he was looking for a netcheat, he was actually asking if there
was a way to detect if his *opponent* was using a netcheat.  I believe Doom
does this.
-- 
            Michael Constant (mco...@soda.csua.berkeley.edu)

In article <virtuallD...@netcom.com>, virt...@netcom.com writes:

> I'll say this slowly so its clear.  There are NO cheats in network or
> serial mode in any version of Descent.  Nor will there be.  

Yes, it turned out that my opponent had not used a cheat sequence, but
had simply patched the executable to give himself an extremely large
amount of initial health.

> However we disclaim all responsibility if people modify the programs
> we shipped.  This is not only unfair and unsportsmanlike, it is a
> violation of the software licensing agreement and thus illegal.

Quite right.  Nevertheless, it would be nice if you had just a little
bit of protection to allow one to know if someone else cheated; for
example, my executable could send a 32-bit hash h based on the current
time to your executable; then, your executable would go through itself
in 32-bit chunks a, accumulating the sum of all h mod a, mod 2^32.
You'd return that number to me, and I'd verify that your executable
was the same as mine by performing the same operation on myself.  If
they weren't the same, my copy would relay the message, "JohnDoe has a
modified copy of Descent, and may be cheating."

Now, of course, this could be defeated by someone who patched the code
around to read an unmodified copy of the excutable (from disk, etc.)
but this would at least provide a little deterrent.  As I understand
it currently, it's just a matter of looking through the interpreted
code for hex 64 00 (100 health) and replacing it with something
larger.  I haven't seen the "Equalizer" patch, so I'm not sure how it
works; but I'll bet it's similarly simple.  (Equalizer is a misnomer,
but I suppose whoever created it didn't quite feel comfortable calling
it "Cheat against your fellow humans like the dirty scoundrel you are,
taking all the fun out of the game.")

I understand that you don't want to waste your time getting in a
battle with cheaters; but, faced with the evidence that they're out
there, I think you would be well-advised to use something like the
above method to deter all but the most determined of them.

Joev                            <URL:"http://www.math.harvard.edu/~joev/">

  "What we ought to do is scan RFDs into a JPEG and post it to the
   alt.binaries groups. "Hot, pumping, RFD-muscle" or something like
   that.
   *Everyone* will download it -- the problem is solved!"
	  -- Andrew Hackard, on voter apathy

jo...@pyramid.res.wpi.edu (Joseph W. Vigneau) writes:

>I would hope there would be a way to detect it somehow, via a checksum, or
>other mechanism...  Question for Parallax: is net cheating possible with a
>third party patch?

  Yes.  We don't do any checking.  It just wasn't possible to prevent it
  with Descent.  Please, no "Use checksum" replies.  The trainer that we
  saw puts a RET at the top of our subroutine apply_damage_to_player,
  and since we want all the different versions of shareware
  Descent to be compatible, we couldn't do an exe checksum.
  Its like sex. If you don't trust your parnter, don't play with 'em.

  John Slagel
 

Joev Dubach (dub...@fas.harvard.edu) wrote:
: It is my understanding that there is a patch to the registered Descent
: executable that allows one to use the normal gabbagabbahey cheat codes
: during network play.  Also, though I don't have concrete evidence, I
: believe there is a cheat sequence that works on the unmodified
: registered Descent, causing one to become invulnerable for an
: arbitrary amount of time.

: I would like to know if there is any programmatic way to prevent
: opponents from using these cheats, or at the very least, to be
: notified that they are being used.  If there isn't, why doesn't
: Parallax release an upgrade that prevents these tactics to some
: degree?  It hurts network play to even think it possible that somebody
: could be cheating against you.

I really hate it when games are like this.  It ruins modem play.  Why 
would anyone want to put this bit of code into the game anyway?  What use 
is it other than to piss off the people who are dying because someone is 
Cheating???
Later
	1K


: Joev                            <URL:"http://www.math.harvard.edu/~joev/">

:   "> Having problems with your computer?  The network?  Has no one been
:    > able to help you so far?  HCS COMPUTER PHONE HELP is online!
:    Illiterate? Write to us for a free pamphlet!"
: 	  -- Eugene Kim, Aaron Mandel

Kolt Cowie (ko...@nucleus.com) wrote:
: Joev Dubach (dub...@fas.harvard.edu) wrote:
: : It is my understanding that there is a patch to the registered Descent
: : executable that allows one to use the normal gabbagabbahey cheat codes
: : during network play.  Also, though I don't have concrete evidence, I
: : believe there is a cheat sequence that works on the unmodified
: : registered Descent, causing one to become invulnerable for an
: : arbitrary amount of time.

: : I would like to know if there is any programmatic way to prevent
: : opponents from using these cheats, or at the very least, to be
: : notified that they are being used.  If there isn't, why doesn't
: : Parallax release an upgrade that prevents these tactics to some
: : degree?  It hurts network play to even think it possible that somebody
: : could be cheating against you.

: I really hate it when games are like this.  It ruins modem play.  Why 
: would anyone want to put this bit of code into the game anyway?  What use 
: is it other than to piss off the people who are dying because someone is 
: Cheating???
: Later
: 	1K

Actually, when used in coop mode, you can crank up the violence
and survive a while. It would be nice. As far as anarchy, I agree

that there is no place for cheats, but in coop, it may lighten up
gameplay. But then, in head to head play it would also be nice to
give a player with lesser abilities an advantage. I have only
played over modem, and generally, its hard to find oponents that
are an equal match. Most people I've played with haven't flown 
flight sims, and the spacial reality of a 3D environment and 
situational awareness in general is not existant. 

	So here it is, make it an option at the start of the match.
And like many modem games(airwarrior) have it be okayed by both(or
more) players. Lan games are a different ball game. Since I haven't
played...I will refrain from commenting...