🚀 go-pugleaf

Years if you realy suck. I mean to get big ships i think you realy
need to build facotrys, trade like a son of a bitch. Capture lot sof
ships and sell them.

And when you do get them contolling your fleet is a real pain from
what i remeber. No drag a cursor on your fleet and point them to where
you want to go nooooo. You have to tell each ship to go where you want
them to go :)

Well from my memory. Unless they fixed this somehow. Please correct me
if iam wrong people. Would love to have a fleet take on some pirates
and such. But it has to be easy to control.

Bye.



On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 08:57:18 -0600, Halada
(banshee@jadeentertainement.com) wrote:

>Im really interesting in getting a game where capital ships are 
>impressive and all, but they say it takes months to get enought 
>money without cheating... is that true?

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 03:23:18 +1100, Alex broden <notme.com.au> wrote:

>
>Years if you realy suck. I mean to get big ships i think you realy
>need to build facotrys, trade like a son of a bitch. Capture lot sof
>ships and sell them.

You can get more money from trading with large transports rather than
factories. 

>And when you do get them contolling your fleet is a real pain from
>what i remeber. No drag a cursor on your fleet and point them to where
>you want to go nooooo. You have to tell each ship to go where you want
>them to go :)

Of if you have a raiding party you can send a single command to all your ships
to protect you, or become your wingmen and join formation.

>Well from my memory. Unless they fixed this somehow. Please correct me
>if iam wrong people. Would love to have a fleet take on some pirates
>and such. But it has to be easy to control.

Pretty easy, telling them all to attack all targets, defend you etc. It gets
tricky when you want a specific ship to attack a specific target but most of
the time you won't want to do that as there is no point. Just get them all to
hammer the nearest one.

>Bye.
>
>
>
>On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 08:57:18 -0600, Halada
>(banshee@jadeentertainement.com) wrote:
>
>>Im really interesting in getting a game where capital ships are 
>>impressive and all, but they say it takes months to get enought 
>>money without cheating... is that true?

This is another really stupid thing about X3 imo (ok so I know Im not a fan 
but these things really seem obvious omissions to me). One of the most 
imortant things in terms of marketing the game is that you can supposedly 
get massive fleets and fight massive enemy fleets. But to do this you would 
have to play the game for six months constantly and no one with any sanity 
is going to do that. Why on earth didnt they just add an option to start the 
game with a massive destroyer, and another option to start with a war fleet 
for ships. So for those of us who would want to experience that side of the 
game could do so without all of the boring trading. Its just another example 
of the short sightedness of the developers to me. Elite allowed you various 
start options for those of us who wanted a challenge and for those who 
wanted an easier option. Would it have been so blooming difficult to 
implement. Or are the developers so serious about their game that they 
expect everyone who buys it to be so interested that they they will play it 
for the rest of their natural lives?

Nats

"Alex broden" <notme.com.au> wrote in message 
news:4f84n19m1to62a9nek6ihs328crto0dlpp@4ax.com...
>
> Years if you realy suck. I mean to get big ships i think you realy
> need to build facotrys, trade like a son of a bitch. Capture lot sof
> ships and sell them.
>
> And when you do get them contolling your fleet is a real pain from
> what i remeber. No drag a cursor on your fleet and point them to where
> you want to go nooooo. You have to tell each ship to go where you want
> them to go :)
>
> Well from my memory. Unless they fixed this somehow. Please correct me
> if iam wrong people. Would love to have a fleet take on some pirates
> and such. But it has to be easy to control.
>
> Bye.
>
>
>
> On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 08:57:18 -0600, Halada
> (banshee@jadeentertainement.com) wrote:
>
>>Im really interesting in getting a game where capital ships are
>>impressive and all, but they say it takes months to get enought
>>money without cheating... is that true?
> 

"Nats" <nstutt@nstutt.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:dl4vj4$qko$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> This is another really stupid thing about X3 imo (ok so I know Im not a fan 
> but these things really seem obvious omissions to me). One of the most 
> imortant things in terms of marketing the game is that you can supposedly get 
> massive fleets and fight massive enemy fleets. But to do this you would have 
> to play the game for six months constantly and no one with any sanity is going 
> to do that. Why on earth didnt they just add an option to start the game with 
> a massive destroyer, and another option to start with a war fleet for ships. 
> So for those of us who would want to experience that side of the game could do 
> so without all of the boring trading. Its just another example of the short 
> sightedness of the developers to me. Elite allowed you various start options 
> for those of us who wanted a challenge and for those who wanted an easier 
> option. Would it have been so blooming difficult to implement. Or are the 
> developers so serious about their game that they expect everyone who buys it 
> to be so interested that they they will play it for the rest of their natural 
> lives?

More irony like this and I'm going to GPF! =D

// Xan, Ph.D.
// As you command, Divine Shadow. 

"Nats" <nstutt@nstutt.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:dl4vj4$qko$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> This is another really stupid thing about X3 imo (ok so I know Im not a 
> fan but these things really seem obvious omissions to me). One of the most 
> imortant things in terms of marketing the game is that you can supposedly 
> get massive fleets and fight massive enemy fleets. But to do this you 
> would have to play the game for six months constantly and no one with any 
> sanity is going to do that. Why on earth didnt they just add an option to 
> start the game with a massive destroyer, and another option to start with 
> a war fleet for ships. So for those of us who would want to experience 
> that side of the game could do so without all of the boring trading. Its 
> just another example of the short sightedness of the developers to me. 
> Elite allowed you various start options for those of us who wanted a 
> challenge and for those who wanted an easier option.

Elite never allowed you to start of with a Panther Clipper and a Large 
Plasma Accellerator.

You had to earn those, just like you do in X3. X3 does let you start on 
varying difficulties, and they make a big differenec.

Many people have fleets of Destroyers etc already, go check out the Relic 
forums, it doesn't take 6 months at all. Having said that those people could 
just have played it all day non stop since they got it. Which isn't possible 
for people who work/have commitments.

Ceo- 

"Ceowulf" <ceo@NOSPAMii.ATALLnet> wrote in message 
news:43769da9$0$9972$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
[snip]

> Many people have fleets of Destroyers etc already, go check out the Relic 
> forums, it doesn't take 6 months at all. Having said that those people 
> could just have played it all day non stop since they got it. Which isn't 
> possible for people who work/have commitments.
>
> Ceo-
>
Ceo

All I can find on the Relic forums is stuff about space marines, orks and 
eldar. :)  Seriously, I bought X3 yesterday and will load it up and give it 
a go soon. 

"Ceowulf" <ceo@NOSPAMii.ATALLnet> wrote in message 
news:43769da9$0$9972$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> "Nats" <nstutt@nstutt.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:dl4vj4$qko$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Elite never allowed you to start of with a Panther Clipper and a Large 
> Plasma Accellerator.
>
> You had to earn those, just like you do in X3. X3 does let you start on 
> varying difficulties, and they make a big differenec.

Well that is true but then the Panther Clipper was the thing that everyone 
aspired to when playing elite. IF they had provided it as a starting point 
it would have ruined the sense of gaining larger and larger ships. The 
difference with X3 is that owning a large ship or fleet isnt the end point 
of the game its just a mid point. Owning a whole series of stations etc is 
supposed to be the main goal. I think being given a large destroyer type 
ship would have been a fun starting point as you could have sold it to get 
some fast money to really enable you to get into the game. Anyway 
progression in Elite was always second to exploration for me. But then 
exploration was fun in ELite becuase you didnt have to go through ten 
systems to get to your destination every time. This is a game breaker for me 
with X3. I dont enjoy it at all. In fact its a right pain in the bum.

For me FFE/FE and X3 are on opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of 
enjoyment.

Nats 

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 12:23:17 -0000, "Nats" <nstutt@nstutt.freeserve.co.uk>
wrote:

>"Ceowulf" <ceo@NOSPAMii.ATALLnet> wrote in message 
>news:43769da9$0$9972$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>> "Nats" <nstutt@nstutt.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message 
>> news:dl4vj4$qko$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
>> Elite never allowed you to start of with a Panther Clipper and a Large 
>> Plasma Accellerator.
>>
>> You had to earn those, just like you do in X3. X3 does let you start on 
>> varying difficulties, and they make a big differenec.
>
>Well that is true but then the Panther Clipper was the thing that everyone 
>aspired to when playing elite. IF they had provided it as a starting point 
>it would have ruined the sense of gaining larger and larger ships. The 
>difference with X3 is that owning a large ship or fleet isnt the end point 
>of the game its just a mid point. Owning a whole series of stations etc is 
>supposed to be the main goal. I think being given a large destroyer type 
>ship would have been a fun starting point as you could have sold it to get 
>some fast money to really enable you to get into the game.

Yes, and for the money you get for it you could buy what...loads of stations!
Instant end game.

> Anyway 
>progression in Elite was always second to exploration for me. But then 
>exploration was fun in ELite becuase you didnt have to go through ten 
>systems to get to your destination every time. This is a game breaker for me 
>with X3. I dont enjoy it at all. In fact its a right pain in the bum.

You don't in X3 either with a Jump Drive, which funnily enough you are given
at the start of the game. The only difference is you have to have visited the
sector once before. Which makes sense really as how can you jump to somewhere
if you don't know where it is.

>For me FFE/FE and X3 are on opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of 
>enjoyment.

It helps if you understand how the game works.....

"Memnoch" <memnoch@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> wrote in message 
news:u0ien110v48n66cjaom0ndjtvst37nq40i@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 12:23:17 -0000, "Nats" <nstutt@nstutt.freeserve.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> You don't in X3 either with a Jump Drive, which funnily enough you are 
> given
> at the start of the game. The only difference is you have to have visited 
> the
> sector once before. Which makes sense really as how can you jump to 
> somewhere
> if you don't know where it is.

Well thats just plain stupid if you think about it. So we are supposed to be 
in the far future with space ships and massive stations and yet the 
navigation software doesnt even know any of the systems you are travelling 
to. I mean in Star Wars ofr example Han Solo programs his navigation 
software with known stellar features in order to navigate to his target. 
Similarly in Elite you have a huge database of known systems in your ships 
computer with just sketchy info on unknown systems. That to me is realistic. 
But here we are supposedly in the third segment of a game and the ships 
still dont know anyhting about their surroundings. Even to the point where 
you dont even know the known Argon sectors? How bloody stupid. It just shows 
that no one is thinking in the development team. Are they all on some kind 
of drug when they come up with the concepts for these games or something??!!

God Im really gald I havent bought the game. What a load of crap.

Nats 

NAts we related :)


Iam going to try thegame hwne the uassie version is riped or the US
versionw ithout Securrom. 7.

The game seems to remove fun from the game. The devlopers are RETARDED
when it comes to fun. Everyship should be able to fit FTL drives
atleast and at most jump drives. WHICH have reactors in the ships so
you can jump where ever you want and it takes a certian ammount of
time to chrage the jump engines to make jumps. longer tim the longer
the jump. Though each jump engine would have a certain range depending
on its charge ammount. And you can't fit huge jump engines to small
ships.

That would make th egame more fun. throw in jump jammers and scanners
and Trgeting of sub systems like engines and the effects of taking out
specfic bits of enemy ships. now that would abe a cool game. And all
the possibilitys of  missions types just with that.

Like just stoping somoen getting to a contracrt signing on time or
somthing. Right up to assination or just being a pirate takingout the
engine sof a ship so you can go in and steal the cargo. The hitting
the comms so they can't call the for help, or jamming the siginal with
jammers.


They have missed SO MANY chances in this game. It just make sme cry.


ADD your mission tyoe  here.







On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:30:58 -0000, "Nats"
<nstutt@nstutt.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>"Memnoch" <memnoch@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> wrote in message 
>news:u0ien110v48n66cjaom0ndjtvst37nq40i@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 12:23:17 -0000, "Nats" <nstutt@nstutt.freeserve.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>> You don't in X3 either with a Jump Drive, which funnily enough you are 
>> given
>> at the start of the game. The only difference is you have to have visited 
>> the
>> sector once before. Which makes sense really as how can you jump to 
>> somewhere
>> if you don't know where it is.
>
>Well thats just plain stupid if you think about it. So we are supposed to be 
>in the far future with space ships and massive stations and yet the 
>navigation software doesnt even know any of the systems you are travelling 
>to. I mean in Star Wars ofr example Han Solo programs his navigation 
>software with known stellar features in order to navigate to his target. 
>Similarly in Elite you have a huge database of known systems in your ships 
>computer with just sketchy info on unknown systems. That to me is realistic. 
>But here we are supposedly in the third segment of a game and the ships 
>still dont know anyhting about their surroundings. Even to the point where 
>you dont even know the known Argon sectors? How bloody stupid. It just shows 
>that no one is thinking in the development team. Are they all on some kind 
>of drug when they come up with the concepts for these games or something??!!
>
>God Im really gald I havent bought the game. What a load of crap.
>
>Nats 
>

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:30:58 -0000, "Nats" <nstutt@nstutt.freeserve.co.uk>
wrote:

>"Memnoch" <memnoch@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> wrote in message 
>news:u0ien110v48n66cjaom0ndjtvst37nq40i@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 12:23:17 -0000, "Nats" <nstutt@nstutt.freeserve.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>> You don't in X3 either with a Jump Drive, which funnily enough you are 
>> given
>> at the start of the game. The only difference is you have to have visited 
>> the
>> sector once before. Which makes sense really as how can you jump to 
>> somewhere
>> if you don't know where it is.
>
>Well thats just plain stupid if you think about it. So we are supposed to be 
>in the far future with space ships and massive stations and yet the 
>navigation software doesnt even know any of the systems you are travelling 
>to.

I can see where you are coming from but its also a game mechanic. If they
opened up the map showing all sectors, what would be the point of exploration.
That would be a large chunk of the game completely out the window.

> I mean in Star Wars ofr example Han Solo programs his navigation 
>software with known stellar features in order to navigate to his target. 
>Similarly in Elite you have a huge database of known systems in your ships 
>computer with just sketchy info on unknown systems. That to me is realistic. 
>But here we are supposedly in the third segment of a game and the ships 
>still dont know anyhting about their surroundings. Even to the point where 
>you dont even know the known Argon sectors? How bloody stupid.

LOL You've got me there of course. That is one of the reasons I won't play RTS
games because I just cannot get my head around the fact that when you complete
one map you effectively start over from scratch and I just can't be bothered
with that at all. 

> It just shows 
>that no one is thinking in the development team. Are they all on some kind 
>of drug when they come up with the concepts for these games or something??!!

They are but of course you have to factor in what effects this would have on
the game. See above about exploration.

>God Im really gald I havent bought the game. What a load of crap.

You are missing out on a great game but fair enough.

"Memnoch" <memnoch@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> wrote in message 
news:v5dfn198lrb54nbubu07sb2a3jl5p77vum@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:30:58 -0000, "Nats" <nstutt@nstutt.freeserve.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>"Memnoch" <memnoch@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>>news:u0ien110v48n66cjaom0ndjtvst37nq40i@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 12:23:17 -0000, "Nats" 
>>> <nstutt@nstutt.freeserve.co.uk>
>>Well thats just plain stupid if you think about it. So we are supposed to 
>>be
>>in the far future with space ships and massive stations and yet the
>>navigation software doesnt even know any of the systems you are travelling
>>to.
>
> I can see where you are coming from but its also a game mechanic. If they
> opened up the map showing all sectors, what would be the point of 
> exploration.
> That would be a large chunk of the game completely out the window.

It may not seem too important a fact to a developer but to someone who wants 
to play a great space game and feel like its sort of realistic its bloody 
important. I mean Elite had systems programmed in but the ones that were 
outside known space were unknown in terms of most details. So in order to 
find out about them you had to explore. I dont see how it would be any 
different in the X games. If you are an Argon pilot at the start of the game 
you should have all of the Argon and surrounding systems in your nav 
computer. Thats a fact that is inescapable in any realistic space game. So 
the fact that youre being dropped into a system you know absolutely nothing 
about for me breaks the realism before you even start the game. And from 
there its just down hill because when you actually do bother to explore the 
other systems you find out that theyre pretty much exactly the same as the 
ones you just left - and the next and the next... to infinity probably.

In the past Ive always gone through the same procedure of playing X games 
(and Ive stupidly bought three of them!). I get used to the ship, I trade a 
bit to get some decent equipment, and then I go off exploring. And that when 
I start getting bored - usually a few days into the game. Because every 
system I come to is the same. Theres no reason to stop in any of them. So I 
keep going and going until I have seen twenty or so systems all the same. 
Then I stop playing, the game goes on the shelf and I move onto a better 
game like RTW or Civ 4.

So you see why I refuse to buy this one. I know where it will end up. Im 
sick of wasting my money.

Nats 

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 22:30:23 -0000, "Nats" <nstutt@nstutt.freeserve.co.uk>
wrote:

>"Memnoch" <memnoch@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> wrote in message 
>news:v5dfn198lrb54nbubu07sb2a3jl5p77vum@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:30:58 -0000, "Nats" <nstutt@nstutt.freeserve.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Memnoch" <memnoch@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>>>news:u0ien110v48n66cjaom0ndjtvst37nq40i@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 12:23:17 -0000, "Nats" 
>>>> <nstutt@nstutt.freeserve.co.uk>
>>>Well thats just plain stupid if you think about it. So we are supposed to 
>>>be
>>>in the far future with space ships and massive stations and yet the
>>>navigation software doesnt even know any of the systems you are travelling
>>>to.
>>
>> I can see where you are coming from but its also a game mechanic. If they
>> opened up the map showing all sectors, what would be the point of 
>> exploration.
>> That would be a large chunk of the game completely out the window.
>
>It may not seem too important a fact to a developer but to someone who wants 
>to play a great space game and feel like its sort of realistic its bloody 
>important. I mean Elite had systems programmed in but the ones that were 
>outside known space were unknown in terms of most details. So in order to 
>find out about them you had to explore. I dont see how it would be any 
>different in the X games. If you are an Argon pilot at the start of the game 
>you should have all of the Argon and surrounding systems in your nav 
>computer. Thats a fact that is inescapable in any realistic space game. So 
>the fact that youre being dropped into a system you know absolutely nothing 
>about for me breaks the realism before you even start the game. And from 
>there its just down hill because when you actually do bother to explore the 
>other systems you find out that theyre pretty much exactly the same as the 
>ones you just left - and the next and the next... to infinity probably.
>
>In the past Ive always gone through the same procedure of playing X games 
>(and Ive stupidly bought three of them!). I get used to the ship, I trade a 
>bit to get some decent equipment, and then I go off exploring. And that when 
>I start getting bored - usually a few days into the game. Because every 
>system I come to is the same. Theres no reason to stop in any of them. So I 
>keep going and going until I have seen twenty or so systems all the same. 
>Then I stop playing, the game goes on the shelf and I move onto a better 
>game like RTW or Civ 4.

That was my fear also. The problem is they still can't get away from having
the stations on this tiny little grid, just like the first one. Despite what
their sales blurbs say about this now using the "vertial axis" or some such,
all this means is that some of the station are just a little bit more above
and below the ecliptic than they were before. As a bullet point to attract
buyers I think they must have been getting desperate at that point. But
despite it all I am really enjoying myself. I'm probably 5 or 6 missions into
the main plot, ticking over at around 5 million credits with probably another
2-3 million in captured ships ready to sell and a freighter making most of the
money. Currently saving for a Corvette which are around 9 million or so. I
think the reason why I haven't got bored with it as I have had a break from it
for a few years and I didn't really play X2 to death. Ask me again a month
from now? ;-)

>So you see why I refuse to buy this one. I know where it will end up. Im 
>sick of wasting my money.

I know where you are coming from, believe me.

"Memnoch" <memnoch@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> wrote in message 
news:0btkn19jhv5d0ru1i9s140rl5amsjiidb1@4ax.com...
>>So you see why I refuse to buy this one. I know where it will end up. Im
>>sick of wasting my money.
>
> I know where you are coming from, believe me.

Anyway Im glad people are enjoying the game. I remember the way I enjoyed 
playing Frontier and FFE - I played it for years literally! I would really 
love to get back into a space sim game but there are just none around that 
attract me. But good luck in your pursuits.

For me I think I will stick with Civ 4 - its taking all of my waking 
non-employed time at the moment. In fact its the first game Ive played in 
years that really has rekindled my interest in computer gaming. I have 
played every incarnation of Civ through the years and was very disappointed 
with Civ 3. This one though gets the gameplay exactly right again! And it 
even has a little rocket building at the end! What more could you ask for!

Nats 

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 05:42:57 +1100, Alex broden <notme.com.au> wrote:

>
>
>NAts we related :)

Judging from your use of English and your penchant for top-posting,
yes, I think you probably are related to Stan.  (That's a BAD thing,
BTW).

>
>Iam going to try thegame hwne the uassie version is riped or the US
>versionw ithout Securrom. 7.
>
>The game seems to remove fun from the game. The devlopers are RETARDED
>when it comes to fun. Everyship should be able to fit FTL drives
>atleast and at most jump drives. WHICH have reactors in the ships so
>you can jump where ever you want and it takes a certian ammount of
>time to chrage the jump engines to make jumps. longer tim the longer
>the jump. Though each jump engine would have a certain range depending
>on its charge ammount. And you can't fit huge jump engines to small
>ships.
>
>That would make th egame more fun. throw in jump jammers and scanners
>and Trgeting of sub systems like engines and the effects of taking out
>specfic bits of enemy ships. now that would abe a cool game. And all
>the possibilitys of  missions types just with that.
>
>Like just stoping somoen getting to a contracrt signing on time or
>somthing. Right up to assination or just being a pirate takingout the
>engine sof a ship so you can go in and steal the cargo. The hitting
>the comms so they can't call the for help, or jamming the siginal with
>jammers.
>
>
>They have missed SO MANY chances in this game. It just make sme cry.
>
>
>ADD your mission tyoe  here.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 18:30:58 -0000, "Nats"
><nstutt@nstutt.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>"Memnoch" <memnoch@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> wrote in message 
>>news:u0ien110v48n66cjaom0ndjtvst37nq40i@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 12:23:17 -0000, "Nats" <nstutt@nstutt.freeserve.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> You don't in X3 either with a Jump Drive, which funnily enough you are 
>>> given
>>> at the start of the game. The only difference is you have to have visited 
>>> the
>>> sector once before. Which makes sense really as how can you jump to 
>>> somewhere
>>> if you don't know where it is.
>>
>>Well thats just plain stupid if you think about it. So we are supposed to be 
>>in the far future with space ships and massive stations and yet the 
>>navigation software doesnt even know any of the systems you are travelling 
>>to. I mean in Star Wars ofr example Han Solo programs his navigation 
>>software with known stellar features in order to navigate to his target. 
>>Similarly in Elite you have a huge database of known systems in your ships 
>>computer with just sketchy info on unknown systems. That to me is realistic. 
>>But here we are supposedly in the third segment of a game and the ships 
>>still dont know anyhting about their surroundings. Even to the point where 
>>you dont even know the known Argon sectors? How bloody stupid. It just shows 
>>that no one is thinking in the development team. Are they all on some kind 
>>of drug when they come up with the concepts for these games or something??!!
>>
>>God Im really gald I havent bought the game. What a load of crap.
>>
>>Nats 

Lemming
-- 
Curiosity *may* have killed Schrodinger's cat.

Hmm and the posting you copied was in fact bottom posted by me. I told you I 
vary my posting dependant on the manner of the reply. For quick replies to 
inane posts like yours I top posst becuase no one is going to want to read 
your daft comments.

Its also not good to quote endless lines of unrelated text in posts either 
Lemming. But then again Im not bothered at all by posting etiquette its a 
load of boring old tosh suitable for discussion by boring prats who have 
nothing better to do.

Nats

"Lemming" <thiswillbounce@bumblbee.demon.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:u1eqn1ha1gpnqkfeme8pl2m01njv6godhg@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 05:42:57 +1100, Alex broden <notme.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>NAts we related :)
>
> Judging from your use of English and your penchant for top-posting,
> yes, I think you probably are related to Stan.  (That's a BAD thing,
> BTW). 

Like U nats ?



On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 21:11:23 -0000, "Nats"
<nstutt@nstutt.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>Hmm and the posting you copied was in fact bottom posted by me. I told you I 
>vary my posting dependant on the manner of the reply. For quick replies to 
>inane posts like yours I top posst becuase no one is going to want to read 
>your daft comments.
>
>Its also not good to quote endless lines of unrelated text in posts either 
>Lemming. But then again Im not bothered at all by posting etiquette its a 
>load of boring old tosh suitable for discussion by boring prats who have 
>nothing better to do.
>
>Nats
>
>"Lemming" <thiswillbounce@bumblbee.demon.co.uk> wrote in message 
>news:u1eqn1ha1gpnqkfeme8pl2m01njv6godhg@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 05:42:57 +1100, Alex broden <notme.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>NAts we related :)
>>
>> Judging from your use of English and your penchant for top-posting,
>> yes, I think you probably are related to Stan.  (That's a BAD thing,
>> BTW). 
>

Nats wrote:
> Hmm and the posting you copied was in fact bottom posted by me. I told you I 
> vary my posting dependant on the manner of the reply. For quick replies to 
> inane posts like yours I top posst becuase no one is going to want to read 
> your daft comments.
> 
> Its also not good to quote endless lines of unrelated text in posts either 
> Lemming. But then again Im not bothered at all by posting etiquette its a 
> load of boring old tosh suitable for discussion by boring prats who have 
> nothing better to do.
> 
> Nats
> 
> "Lemming" <thiswillbounce@bumblbee.demon.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:u1eqn1ha1gpnqkfeme8pl2m01njv6godhg@4ax.com...
> 
>>On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 05:42:57 +1100, Alex broden <notme.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>>NAts we related :)
>>
>>Judging from your use of English and your penchant for top-posting,
>>yes, I think you probably are related to Stan.  (That's a BAD thing,
>>BTW). 
> 
> 
> 


Uh oh, another usenet anarchist that spits in the face of adopted 
convention.

Wanker.

On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 03:24:45 +0100, Walter Mitty <mitticus@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Nats wrote:
>> Hmm and the posting you copied was in fact bottom posted by me. I told you I 
>> vary my posting dependant on the manner of the reply. For quick replies to 
>> inane posts like yours I top posst becuase no one is going to want to read 
>> your daft comments.
>> 
>> Its also not good to quote endless lines of unrelated text in posts either 
>> Lemming. But then again Im not bothered at all by posting etiquette its a 
>> load of boring old tosh suitable for discussion by boring prats who have 
>> nothing better to do.
>> 
>> Nats
>> 
>> "Lemming" <thiswillbounce@bumblbee.demon.co.uk> wrote in message 
>> news:u1eqn1ha1gpnqkfeme8pl2m01njv6godhg@4ax.com...
>> 
>>>On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 05:42:57 +1100, Alex broden <notme.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>>NAts we related :)
>>>
>>>Judging from your use of English and your penchant for top-posting,
>>>yes, I think you probably are related to Stan.  (That's a BAD thing,
>>>BTW). 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>
>
>Uh oh, another usenet anarchist that spits in the face of adopted 
>convention.

Anarchist?  I don't think so.  I think Stan would probably call
himself an apathist.

>Wanker.

That's what everyone else calls him.

Lemming
-- 
Curiosity *may* have killed Schrodinger's cat.

"Lemming" <thiswillbounce@bumblbee.demon.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:sl03o1d8migmm1ejnth45tdtap3ghb2fgp@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 03:24:45 +0100, Walter Mitty <mitticus@gmail.com>
> wrote:

>>Uh oh, another usenet anarchist that spits in the face of adopted
>>convention.
>
> Anarchist?  I don't think so.  I think Stan would probably call
> himself an apathist.
>
>>Wanker.
>
> That's what everyone else calls him.

I'm just glad I dont conform like you. I don't call myself anything because 
to call myself a name would be to place myself in a niche and that would 
enable you to find a stereotypical image for me. And I dont want that. So I 
am what I am. I do what I do. I like it and thats good enough for me. Thank 
you and goodnight.

Nats 

Nats wrote:
> "Lemming" <thiswillbounce@bumblbee.demon.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:sl03o1d8migmm1ejnth45tdtap3ghb2fgp@4ax.com...
> 
>>On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 03:24:45 +0100, Walter Mitty <mitticus@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
> 
> 
>>>Uh oh, another usenet anarchist that spits in the face of adopted
>>>convention.
>>
>>Anarchist?  I don't think so.  I think Stan would probably call
>>himself an apathist.
>>
>>
>>>Wanker.
>>
>>That's what everyone else calls him.
> 
> 
> I'm just glad I dont conform like you. I don't call myself anything because 
> to call myself a name would be to place myself in a niche and that would 
> enable you to find a stereotypical image for me. And I dont want that. So I 
> am what I am. I do what I do. I like it and thats good enough for me. Thank 
> you and goodnight.
> 
> Nats 
> 
> 


Brilliant : he even parodies himself - well done.

Do you drive down the wrong way on the street too?

On the 13 Nov 2005, "Nats" <nstutt@nstutt.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

<snip>

> Well that is true but then the Panther Clipper was the thing that everyone 
> aspired to when playing elite.

Nah, Boa all the way for me. Much better ship.

-- 
Jades' First Encounters Site - http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm
The best Frontier: First Encounters site on the Web.

nospam@jades.org /is/ a real email address!

"DocScorpio" <docscorpio@strupra-spammeros.com> wrote in message 
news:mzzdf.953$9T4.632@trnddc04...
>
> "Ceowulf" <ceo@NOSPAMii.ATALLnet> wrote in message 
> news:43769da9$0$9972$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> [snip]
>
>> Many people have fleets of Destroyers etc already, go check out the Relic 
>> forums, it doesn't take 6 months at all. Having said that those people 
>> could just have played it all day non stop since they got it. Which isn't 
>> possible for people who work/have commitments.
>>
>> Ceo-
>>
> Ceo
>
> All I can find on the Relic forums is stuff about space marines, orks and 
> eldar. :)  Seriously, I bought X3 yesterday and will load it up and give 
> it a go soon.

Whoops, sorry, you know I meant EgoSoft right? :P Hrmmm, only a week or two 
late :)

Ceo- 

"Nats" <nstutt@nstutt.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:dl7b7k$ske$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> "Ceowulf" <ceo@NOSPAMii.ATALLnet> wrote in message 
> news:43769da9$0$9972$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>> "Nats" <nstutt@nstutt.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message 
>> news:dl4vj4$qko$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
>> Elite never allowed you to start of with a Panther Clipper and a Large 
>> Plasma Accellerator.
>>
>> You had to earn those, just like you do in X3. X3 does let you start on 
>> varying difficulties, and they make a big differenec.
>
> Well that is true but then the Panther Clipper was the thing that everyone 
> aspired to when playing elite. IF they had provided it as a starting point 
> it would have ruined the sense of gaining larger and larger ships. The 
> difference with X3 is that owning a large ship or fleet isnt the end point 
> of the game its just a mid point. Owning a whole series of stations etc is 
> supposed to be the main goal. I think being given a large destroyer type 
> ship would have been a fun starting point as you could have sold it to get 
> some fast money to really enable you to get into the game. Anyway 
> progression in Elite was always second to exploration for me. But then 
> exploration was fun in ELite becuase you didnt have to go through ten 
> systems to get to your destination every time. This is a game breaker for 
> me with X3. I dont enjoy it at all. In fact its a right pain in the bum.

Sorry I could be flogging a dead horse here due to the lateness of a reply, 
but I have to dissagree with some of those comments. Firstly many people's 
penultimate ship in FFE was the Imperial Explorer ;) Hehe but in all 
seriousness. In X3 it is the fleet of big ships that's the main goal. One 
Argon Titan (Destroyer) costs in the hundreds of millions (after its being 
fully equiped). A cost of a factory empire is insignificant compared to a 
fleet of Cap Ships.

I've got to say here though, that once you've got your tremendous amount of 
big ships and several fleets patroling your space, you've got to ask... 
whats left? I find myself thinking about that a bit, because there doesn't 
seem to be a reason for that huge fleet and trading empire. I guess thats 
where the "true" fans say, its all up to you. Your imagination is the limit, 
go conquer the Split, take out the Paranid, that kinda stuff. For some 
people thats a dream come true. For others its a bit of a meh. *shrugs* To 
each their own.

> For me FFE/FE and X3 are on opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of 
> enjoyment.

I agree on this, they are completely different, but are still fitting in the 
space-sim genre. And X3 is a leading space-sim whether you want to think it 
or not. Once upon a time I would say I-War 2 was the boss, and is still a 
contender for "modern" (not all, as the Elite trio still win hands down 
overall) space-sims. With no other companies really taking this genre 
seriously, and fans short in supply (compare traffic of this group to rpg or 
strategic, though that's showing its age too) I am grateful that Egosoft 
have a dream and a desire to make a good space-sim. If they are still 
falling a bit short then that's cool, as long as they keep the dream or so 
to say.

Ceo- 

"Graham Thurlwell" <nospam@jades.org> wrote in message 
news:30a652ce4d.jades@d.thurlwell.btopenworld.com...
> On the 13 Nov 2005, "Nats" <nstutt@nstutt.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Well that is true but then the Panther Clipper was the thing that 
>> everyone
>> aspired to when playing elite.
>
> Nah, Boa all the way for me. Much better ship.

I tend to agree there Graham, I loved the Python, Anaconda and Boa range of 
ships. Looked amazing and had some extra power in the old engines.

Ceo- 

"Nats" <nstutt@nstutt.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:dlgeg6$sj4$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> "Memnoch" <memnoch@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> wrote in message 
> news:0btkn19jhv5d0ru1i9s140rl5amsjiidb1@4ax.com...
>>>So you see why I refuse to buy this one. I know where it will end up. Im
>>>sick of wasting my money.
>>
>> I know where you are coming from, believe me.
>
> Anyway Im glad people are enjoying the game. I remember the way I enjoyed 
> playing Frontier and FFE - I played it for years literally! I would really 
> love to get back into a space sim game but there are just none around that 
> attract me. But good luck in your pursuits.

Yeah and believe it or not those of us that like the game are cool with 
people not liking it. Well, those of us in the NG's anyway, I'm not sure how 
their forums would take you or someone like Alex, probably a quick path to 
bandom for Alex I'd guess :p

You ever considered loading up JJFFE? As I said before it works flawlessly, 
sound and all, and it's amazing how quickly you get used to the graphics 
again.

> For me I think I will stick with Civ 4 - its taking all of my waking 
> non-employed time at the moment. In fact its the first game Ive played in 
> years that really has rekindled my interest in computer gaming. I have 
> played every incarnation of Civ through the years and was very 
> disappointed with Civ 3. This one though gets the gameplay exactly right 
> again! And it even has a little rocket building at the end! What more 
> could you ask for!

Ditto on the Civ3, though I did start up plenty of games only to finish when 
I hit modern technology ages, the start always seemed the most fun. I had 
trouble getting into Civ 4, the raging barbarians that would smack into my 
rear "safe" cities due to a big patch of desert or dense mountains that 
couldn't be colonized kinda pissed me off.

Ceo- 

"Ceowulf" <ceo@NOSPAMii.ATALLnet> wrote in message 
news:43882d86$0$12457$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> "Nats" <nstutt@nstutt.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:dl7b7k$ske$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
[snip]
>
> I agree on this, they are completely different, but are still fitting in 
> the space-sim genre. And X3 is a leading space-sim whether you want to 
> think it or not. Once upon a time I would say I-War 2 was the boss, and is 
> still a contender for "modern" (not all, as the Elite trio still win hands 
> down overall) space-sims. With no other companies really taking this genre 
> seriously, and fans short in supply (compare traffic of this group to rpg 
> or strategic, though that's showing its age too) I am grateful that 
> Egosoft have a dream and a desire to make a good space-sim. If they are 
> still falling a bit short then that's cool, as long as they keep the dream 
> or so to say.
>
> Ceo-
>
That's pretty much why I bought it.  Haven't played it much beyond barely 
starting.  I can't bring myself to restart another X game quite yet. 

Yeah but didnt you just want to Panther Clipper to have to fit it through 
the space station doors. Personally I never actually got past my Asp 
Explorer which I loved (bit like the Millenium Falcon). I did get an 
Imperial ship once but didnt like it much.

Nats

"Ceowulf" <ceo@NOSPAMii.ATALLnet> wrote in message 
news:43883239$0$12477$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> "Graham Thurlwell" <nospam@jades.org> wrote in message 
> news:30a652ce4d.jades@d.thurlwell.btopenworld.com...
>> On the 13 Nov 2005, "Nats" <nstutt@nstutt.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Well that is true but then the Panther Clipper was the thing that 
>>> everyone
>>> aspired to when playing elite.
>>
>> Nah, Boa all the way for me. Much better ship.
>
> I tend to agree there Graham, I loved the Python, Anaconda and Boa range 
> of ships. Looked amazing and had some extra power in the old engines.
>
> Ceo-
> 

"Nats" <nstutt@nstutt.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:dmcbh6$tsp$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Yeah but didnt you just want to Panther Clipper to have to fit it through 
> the space station doors. Personally I never actually got past my Asp 
> Explorer which I loved (bit like the Millenium Falcon). I did get an 
> Imperial ship once but didnt like it much.

Thats true, manual dockings became a bit more tense with something as big as 
the Clipper. I did love taking off from a outside world, watching the 
Panther from the outside, as the four engine nasels moved from upward thrust 
postion to normal movement. Magic moment the first time I noticed it :)

I have to admit to being a Federation man through and through, never liked 
the Imperial ships, and also flew the Asp for the majority of my time. It 
just looks so damn sexy! :)

Ceo- 

On the 26 Nov 2005, "Ceowulf" <ceo@NOSPAMii.ATALLnet> wrote:

> I had trouble getting into Civ 4, the raging barbarians that would
> smack into my  rear "safe" cities due to a big patch of desert or
> dense mountains that  couldn't be colonized kinda pissed me off.

Regular patrols with spare Warriors? I haven't played Civ 4 yet, but on
Civ 3 the barbs tended to turn up in areas covered by Fog of War that
hadn't been seen for a while.

-- 
Jades' First Encounters Site - http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm
The best Frontier: First Encounters site on the Web.

nospam@jades.org /is/ a real email address!

On the 26 Nov 2005, "Ceowulf" <ceo@NOSPAMii.ATALLnet> wrote:

<snip>

> I've got to say here though, that once you've got your tremendous amount of 
> big ships and several fleets patroling your space, you've got to ask... 
> whats left? I find myself thinking about that a bit, because there doesn't 
> seem to be a reason for that huge fleet and trading empire.

Well, one thing I always fancied trying was a scheme I call Operation
Sunset on that old classic X-Tension. I worked out that it was possible
to totally cripple the economy based on three simple facts about the
trading engine - /everything/ in the game requires resources to run,
factories can be destroyed, and the AI is unable to buy replacement
factories (I'm fairly sure they can't).

Pretty much all of the structures in the first two X games (can't
comment on X2 or X3 as I haven't played them) need energy cells in
order to run. Without them, everything grinds to a halt. In the
original X, the energy cells magically appeared from the AI factories,
needing no resources - although the player needed to buy crystals. On
the other hand, X-Tension levels the playing field by making the AI
need them as well.

This reliance on crystals, then, creates the opportunity for the less
scrupulous player to throw a spanner in the works by restricting their
supply. The thing with Crystal Fabs is that there are only two per
race, so eliminating the universe's supply of new crystals can be quite
quickly accomplished by blatting all of the fabs with very big missiles.

At first, nothing much will seem to happen (apart from the AI being a
bit miffed) because the power plants don't use the crystals up all that
quickly. Eventually, all of the crystals have gone, and the power plants
will come to a juddering halt. Once all of the energy cells have all been
used up, then it's total economic meltdown as nobody can make anything
any more!

If you're not sadistic enough to permanently kill the economy, Operation
Sunset can be tweaked so that the only remaining source of crystals are
your own fabs - thus giving you the easiest and most complete monopoly
in the game. For best results, it will probably help if you own a number
of power plants too, so you can maximise your profit.

-- 
Jades' First Encounters Site - http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm
The best Frontier: First Encounters site on the Web.

nospam@jades.org /is/ a real email address!