🚀 go-pugleaf

On Fri, 19 Sep 2014 10:59:29 +0400, Snowwhite <johnda...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Haven't been here in a long while.
>
> How come no one is talking about Wasteland 2 which launches today?
>

personally I ignore all games made with Unity engine.
It's "Quick Basic" category for me.

-- 
Andrew Rybenkov

On Fri, 19 Sep 2014 11:05:19 +0400, "Andrew Rybenkov"
<aryb...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 19 Sep 2014 10:59:29 +0400, Snowwhite <johnda...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Haven't been here in a long while.
>>
>> How come no one is talking about Wasteland 2 which launches today?
>>
>
>personally I ignore all games made with Unity engine.
>It's "Quick Basic" category for me.

Anything cross-platform always amounts to shit performance.  I'm not
sure how much performance matters in a game like Wasteland 2 though.

I might try it once it hits maybe ten bucks.  I'd agree that using
Unity is more something you reach for when bitten by the mobile bug.  

Am 19.09.14 08:59, schrieb Snowwhite:
> Haven't been here in a long while.
>
> How come no one is talking about Wasteland 2 which launches today?
>
Downloading it atm it is a whopping 8 Gig download (delta from the steam 
beta), will start playing it in a few days.


Werner

Am 19.09.14 18:36, schrieb Rin Stowleigh:
> On Fri, 19 Sep 2014 11:05:19 +0400, "Andrew Rybenkov"
> <aryb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 19 Sep 2014 10:59:29 +0400, Snowwhite <johnda...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Haven't been here in a long while.
>>>
>>> How come no one is talking about Wasteland 2 which launches today?
>>>
>>
>> personally I ignore all games made with Unity engine.
>> It's "Quick Basic" category for me.
>
> Anything cross-platform always amounts to shit performance.  I'm not
> sure how much performance matters in a game like Wasteland 2 though.
>

I played the beta a little bit, besides that there was a good game 
underneath, the performance was pretty ok for me. It was a little bit 
laggish on the Mac but on the PC it ran perfectly fine. I will probably 
play the final version with steam streaming instead on the mac. The 
performance of streamed games often is better than playing natively on 
the Mac.

> I might try it once it hits maybe ten bucks.  I'd agree that using
> Unity is more something you reach for when bitten by the mobile bug.
>
Not really also when you want to cover PC/MAC/Linux at the same time, 
which they apparently do.


Werner

On Fri, 19 Sep 2014 19:58:28 +0200, Werner Punz <we...@gmx.at> wrote:

>Am 19.09.14 18:36, schrieb Rin Stowleigh:
>> On Fri, 19 Sep 2014 11:05:19 +0400, "Andrew Rybenkov"
>> <aryb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 19 Sep 2014 10:59:29 +0400, Snowwhite <johnda...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Haven't been here in a long while.
>>>>
>>>> How come no one is talking about Wasteland 2 which launches today?
>>>>
>>>
>>> personally I ignore all games made with Unity engine.
>>> It's "Quick Basic" category for me.
>>
>> Anything cross-platform always amounts to shit performance.  I'm not
>> sure how much performance matters in a game like Wasteland 2 though.
>>
>
>I played the beta a little bit, besides that there was a good game 
>underneath, the performance was pretty ok for me. It was a little bit 
>laggish on the Mac but on the PC it ran perfectly fine. I will probably 
>play the final version with steam streaming instead on the mac. The 
>performance of streamed games often is better than playing natively on 
>the Mac.
>
>> I might try it once it hits maybe ten bucks.  I'd agree that using
>> Unity is more something you reach for when bitten by the mobile bug.
>>
>Not really also when you want to cover PC/MAC/Linux at the same time, 
>which they apparently do.

What I mean though is that mobile is the lowest common denominator.
So, unless you see a feature-equal mobile version as being a definite
future need, gambling that the Unity engine will even be supported in
the long term would be a very risky development decision for a game
like this.

On Fri, 19 Sep 2014 21:58:28 +0400, Werner Punz <we...@gmx.at> wrote:

> I played the beta a little bit, besides that there was a good game underneath, the performance was pretty ok for me.

Back in spring they did write (in the game Steam forum) that
32-bit users would experience performance problems.
It is of course exceptionally ridiculous.
I wrote there what I thought about their programming skills,
though Brother None promptly deleted my message.

Requiring 64-bits for mediocre-looking game is a shame.

-- 
Andrew Rybenkov

Am 19.09.14 20:57, schrieb Andrew Rybenkov:
> On Fri, 19 Sep 2014 21:58:28 +0400, Werner Punz <we...@gmx.at> wrote:
>
>> I played the beta a little bit, besides that there was a good game
>> underneath, the performance was pretty ok for me.
>
> Back in spring they did write (in the game Steam forum) that
> 32-bit users would experience performance problems.
> It is of course exceptionally ridiculous.
> I wrote there what I thought about their programming skills,
> though Brother None promptly deleted my message.
>
> Requiring 64-bits for mediocre-looking game is a shame.
>
I have a 64 bit system so no problem on my side.

Werner

On Fri, 19 Sep 2014 20:36:14 +0400, Rin Stowleigh <rstow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Anything cross-platform always amounts to shit performance.  I'm not
> sure how much performance matters in a game like Wasteland 2 though.
>

game with such like graphics (I took the link at rpgcodex)
http://puu.sh/bFdqf/47c2f0fa2b.png
requires 30GB of disk space, and  64-bit for better performance.
<facepalm>

-- 
Andrew Rybenkov

On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 06:42:28 +0400, Andrew Rybenkov <aryb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> game with such like graphics (I took the link at rpgcodex)
> http://puu.sh/bFdqf/47c2f0fa2b.png
> requires 30GB of disk space, and  64-bit for better performance.
> <facepalm>
>

or check this
http://abload.de/img/533efc31d11b3f12d57d9xyag2.jpg

33FPS!

-- 
Andrew Rybenkov

Am 20.09.14 17:29, schrieb Andrew Rybenkov:
> On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 06:42:28 +0400, Andrew Rybenkov
> <aryb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> game with such like graphics (I took the link at rpgcodex)
>> http://puu.sh/bFdqf/47c2f0fa2b.png
>> requires 30GB of disk space, and  64-bit for better performance.
>> <facepalm>
>>
>
> or check this
> http://abload.de/img/533efc31d11b3f12d57d9xyag2.jpg
>
> 33FPS!
>
Which of course is important in a turn based fps :-)

Am 21.09.14 08:38, schrieb Werner Punz:
> Am 20.09.14 17:29, schrieb Andrew Rybenkov:
>> On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 06:42:28 +0400, Andrew Rybenkov
>> <aryb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> game with such like graphics (I took the link at rpgcodex)
>>> http://puu.sh/bFdqf/47c2f0fa2b.png
>>> requires 30GB of disk space, and  64-bit for better performance.
>>> <facepalm>
>>>
>>
>> or check this
>> http://abload.de/img/533efc31d11b3f12d57d9xyag2.jpg
>>
>> 33FPS!
>>
> Which of course is important in a turn based fps :-)
>
Sorry I meant rpg, way to early in the morning.

Werner

On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 10:38:25 +0400, Werner Punz <we...@gmx.at> wrote:

> Which of course is important in a turn based fps :-)
>

it shows embarrassing inefficiency of the engine.

The Fall: Last Days of Gaia (2004) had comparable (if not better) graphics
http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/fall-last-days-of-gaia/screenshots

yet gave you more tactical opportunities (ie you could shoot laying or kneeling),
and happily ran on Pentium 4.

-- 
Andrew Rybenkov

Am 21.09.14 10:00, schrieb Andrew Rybenkov:
> On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 10:38:25 +0400, Werner Punz <we...@gmx.at> wrote:
>
>> Which of course is important in a turn based fps :-)
>>
>
> it shows embarrassing inefficiency of the engine.
>
> The Fall: Last Days of Gaia (2004) had comparable (if not better) graphics
> http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/fall-last-days-of-gaia/screenshots
>
> yet gave you more tactical opportunities (ie you could shoot laying or
> kneeling),
> and happily ran on Pentium 4.
>
Never played the game, was it good?


Werner

Am 21.09.14 10:00, schrieb Andrew Rybenkov:
> On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 10:38:25 +0400, Werner Punz <we...@gmx.at> wrote:
>
>> Which of course is important in a turn based fps :-)
>>
>
> it shows embarrassing inefficiency of the engine.
>
First of all I dont mind the inefficiency as long as it runs fine which 
it does. But, this has less to do with Unity and more with inXiles RGP 
engine on top of it.
I also play the latest Tex Murphy installment which is also Unity based 
and there in the 3d part I  get a constant 60+ fps in 1920x1200. So it 
is less Unity more the engine on top of it.



Werner

In article <f740a7f3-b822-4d5c...@googlegroups.com>, 
johnda...@gmail.com says...
> 
> Haven't been here in a long while.
> 
> How come no one is talking about Wasteland 2 which launches today?

Well for starters I don't like talking about a game that I have not seen 
or played yet - unless it's publishing date or some such.

I finished downloading my copy yesterday, I didn't have to wait for it 
to cost only 10 bucks since I am an early kickstarter foundation member 
of the game, but I haven't wanted to be in on the beta testing, I'm 
interested in playing a finished game (more or less) rather than paying 
MORE for less (i.e. pay extra to be a free beta tester). So it's all new 
to me.

The download from GOG is 9.62 gigabytes on  the HDD, broken into 6 files 
as you download it from that source. The installed game is 21.1 GB on 
the harddrive (PC). It took a fair while to download and install. 

I've gone and played to the first set point in-game with prefab 
characters, then made my own party twice, learning the interface as I 
went on, and my third home-baked party is now at "The Ag-Centre" which 
is the second (or third, depending on your choices) destination in  the 
game's storyline. 

The feeling of the game is very Fallout_1-like. The interface is a 
little un-obvious at times, for instance when you do your party creation 
you can actually see, on the tooltips of various skills, if another 
member of your party already HAS this skill. Took me all the 3 creation 
processes mentioned to suss that out. Clever, but, well, in the absence 
of a printed manual not obvious at all. Similarly I had to watch a 
youtube video of somebody playing the beta to figure out how 
weaponsmithing works. I guess I will  get around to reading the pdf 
manual eventually! 

So far I can't say a hell of a lot about the story. Yes, story. I can 
only laugh about people who bitch about framerates and graphics in a 
game of this nature, the graphics of Fallout 1 would be just fine for me 
in a game of this type: I am interested in the substance of the story, 
the subtlety of the way the game can be played and  not the bling. The 
game plays fine and smoothly in 2560x1600 resolution - that's all I can 
say. Ok, I would probably not settle  for Wizardry 2 style gfx, but ...
 
I need to  rotate the camera a lot to see into all the nooks and 
crannies of the isometric landscape, and that is somewhat tedious since 
I haven't found  a 'free camera' control button yet - i.e. I need to 
press the mousewheel down to rotate  the camera.

So far I have found that there are at least 3 fundamentally different 
ways to play the first encounter with hostiles, all yield experience for 
the team, and in my purview that is a Good Thing. Many ways to skin a 
cat, and many ways of skinning to discover, test, and play around with.
I am sure there are yet many things to discover, even about basic 
gameplay, that I haven't scratched the surface of. I have begun to do 
some save-scumming just to facilitate experimentation with different 
approaches to a problem the game sets me. I.e.: Hey, demolition skill 
can be used to defuse traps!

Happy to discuss gameplay and experience-based impressions from here on  
as I am working my way into the game (rather than waffling on about 
someone's conjecture about something they haven't even seen).

-P.

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On Monday, September 22, 2014 8:55:21 AM UTC+10, Peter Huebner wrote:
> 

> 
> > 
> 
> > Haven't been here in a long while.
> 
> > 
> 
> > How come no one is talking about Wasteland 2 which launches today?
> 
> 
> 
> Well for starters I don't like talking about a game that I have not seen 
> 
> or played yet - unless it's publishing date or some such.
> 
> 
> 
> I finished downloading my copy yesterday, I didn't have to wait for it 
> 
> to cost only 10 bucks since I am an early kickstarter foundation member 
> 
> of the game, but I haven't wanted to be in on the beta testing, I'm 
> 
> interested in playing a finished game (more or less) rather than paying 
> 
> MORE for less (i.e. pay extra to be a free beta tester). So it's all new 
> 
> to me.
> 
> 
> 
> The download from GOG is 9.62 gigabytes on  the HDD, broken into 6 files 
> 
> as you download it from that source. The installed game is 21.1 GB on 
> 
> the harddrive (PC). It took a fair while to download and install. 
> 
> 
> 
> I've gone and played to the first set point in-game with prefab 
> 
> characters, then made my own party twice, learning the interface as I 
> 
> went on, and my third home-baked party is now at "The Ag-Centre" which 
> 
> is the second (or third, depending on your choices) destination in  the 
> 
> game's storyline. 
> 
> 
> 
> The feeling of the game is very Fallout_1-like. The interface is a 
> 
> little un-obvious at times, for instance when you do your party creation 
> 
> you can actually see, on the tooltips of various skills, if another 
> 
> member of your party already HAS this skill. Took me all the 3 creation 
> 
> processes mentioned to suss that out. Clever, but, well, in the absence 
> 
> of a printed manual not obvious at all. Similarly I had to watch a 
> 
> youtube video of somebody playing the beta to figure out how 
> 
> weaponsmithing works. I guess I will  get around to reading the pdf 
> 
> manual eventually! 
> 
> 
> 
> So far I can't say a hell of a lot about the story. Yes, story. I can 
> 
> only laugh about people who bitch about framerates and graphics in a 
> 
> game of this nature, the graphics of Fallout 1 would be just fine for me 
> 
> in a game of this type: I am interested in the substance of the story, 
> 
> the subtlety of the way the game can be played and  not the bling. The 
> 
> game plays fine and smoothly in 2560x1600 resolution - that's all I can 
> 
> say. Ok, I would probably not settle  for Wizardry 2 style gfx, but ...
> 
>  
> 
> I need to  rotate the camera a lot to see into all the nooks and 
> 
> crannies of the isometric landscape, and that is somewhat tedious since 
> 
> I haven't found  a 'free camera' control button yet - i.e. I need to 
> 
> press the mousewheel down to rotate  the camera.
> 
> 
> 
> So far I have found that there are at least 3 fundamentally different 
> 
> ways to play the first encounter with hostiles, all yield experience for 
> 
> the team, and in my purview that is a Good Thing. Many ways to skin a 
> 
> cat, and many ways of skinning to discover, test, and play around with.
> 
> I am sure there are yet many things to discover, even about basic 
> 
> gameplay, that I haven't scratched the surface of. I have begun to do 
> 
> some save-scumming just to facilitate experimentation with different 
> 
> approaches to a problem the game sets me. I.e.: Hey, demolition skill 
> 
> can be used to defuse traps!
> 
> 
> 
> Happy to discuss gameplay and experience-based impressions from here on  
> 
> as I am working my way into the game (rather than waffling on about 
> 
> someone's conjecture about something they haven't even seen).
> 
> 
> 
> -P.
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> 
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
> 
> http://www.avast.com

I am playing the game.  I have some trouble with the digital manual and find it difficult to get my questions answered there so am going to post them here when/if.  

Right now I have some characters that have a plus sign on there little portraits at the bottom of the screen.  Can't figure out what this means.  It does not seem to be related to skill points or action points.  Any help would be great.

For the record, I am an enthusiastic but not very good rpg player.  Notwithstanding I loved the original Fallout Games and very much enjoyed Fallout 3 and New Vegas.  This game is much harder than they were (at least for me).  I find it much easier to coddle one main character than 4.  I do like the game though I can sense many hours of frustration as I work my way through it.  the graphics are fine for the kind of game this is.  And there are certainly challenges.  It is just a bit of a shame that part of the challenge involves figuring out what things mean and how to do things rather than just the things to do.

Anyway, any help would be great.

In article <0732a166-ea38-4887...@googlegroups.com>,
johnda...@gmail.com says...
> I am playing the game. I have some trouble with the digital manual and
> find it difficult to get my questions answered there so am going to
> post them here when/if.
> 
> Right now I have some characters that have a plus sign on there little
> portraits at the bottom of the screen. Can't figure out what this
> means. It does not seem to be related to skill points or action
> points. Any help would be great.
> 
> For the record, I am an enthusiastic but not very good rpg player.
> Notwithstanding I loved the original Fallout Games and very much
> enjoyed Fallout 3 and New Vegas. This game is much harder than they
> were (at least for me). I find it much easier to coddle one main
> character than 4. I do like the game though I can sense many hours of
> frustration as I work my way through it. the graphics are fine for the
> kind of game this is. And there are certainlychallenges. It is just a 
bit of a shame that part of the challenge
involves figuring out what things mean and how to do things rather than
just the things to do.
> 
> Anyway, any help would be great.

A plus sign on a character's portrait means they qualify for a field 
promotion. Use the 'radio' button in the top right corner of the screen 
and radio in an 'update'.
You can go directly to the character's screen and allocate the points, 
but I think that does not exactly do the same things. I think you get 
extra skill points or experience points when you radio in for a 
promotion. Not 100$ certain on this but that is what it looked like to 
me on one occasion.

-P.



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

Someone else already helped with the plus, I just want to give a general 
hint (according to what I discovered in the beta, I have yet to play the 
final version). Water is vital in the game, you should find some oasises 
as soon as possible. There is one near the first mission place. Once you 
have discovered a set of
oasises the game becomes way easier because you are not limited in your 
movements during the exploration/travel mode that much anymore.



Werner


Am 22.09.14 01:32, schrieb Snowwhite:
> On Monday, September 22, 2014 8:55:21 AM UTC+10, Peter Huebner wrote:
>>
>
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Haven't been here in a long while.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> How come no one is talking about Wasteland 2 which launches today?
>>
>>
>>
>> Well for starters I don't like talking about a game that I have not seen
>>
>> or played yet - unless it's publishing date or some such.
>>
>>
>>
>> I finished downloading my copy yesterday, I didn't have to wait for it
>>
>> to cost only 10 bucks since I am an early kickstarter foundation member
>>
>> of the game, but I haven't wanted to be in on the beta testing, I'm
>>
>> interested in playing a finished game (more or less) rather than paying
>>
>> MORE for less (i.e. pay extra to be a free beta tester). So it's all new
>>
>> to me.
>>
>>
>>
>> The download from GOG is 9.62 gigabytes on  the HDD, broken into 6 files
>>
>> as you download it from that source. The installed game is 21.1 GB on
>>
>> the harddrive (PC). It took a fair while to download and install.
>>
>>
>>
>> I've gone and played to the first set point in-game with prefab
>>
>> characters, then made my own party twice, learning the interface as I
>>
>> went on, and my third home-baked party is now at "The Ag-Centre" which
>>
>> is the second (or third, depending on your choices) destination in  the
>>
>> game's storyline.
>>
>>
>>
>> The feeling of the game is very Fallout_1-like. The interface is a
>>
>> little un-obvious at times, for instance when you do your party creation
>>
>> you can actually see, on the tooltips of various skills, if another
>>
>> member of your party already HAS this skill. Took me all the 3 creation
>>
>> processes mentioned to suss that out. Clever, but, well, in the absence
>>
>> of a printed manual not obvious at all. Similarly I had to watch a
>>
>> youtube video of somebody playing the beta to figure out how
>>
>> weaponsmithing works. I guess I will  get around to reading the pdf
>>
>> manual eventually!
>>
>>
>>
>> So far I can't say a hell of a lot about the story. Yes, story. I can
>>
>> only laugh about people who bitch about framerates and graphics in a
>>
>> game of this nature, the graphics of Fallout 1 would be just fine for me
>>
>> in a game of this type: I am interested in the substance of the story,
>>
>> the subtlety of the way the game can be played and  not the bling. The
>>
>> game plays fine and smoothly in 2560x1600 resolution - that's all I can
>>
>> say. Ok, I would probably not settle  for Wizardry 2 style gfx, but ...
>>
>>
>>
>> I need to  rotate the camera a lot to see into all the nooks and
>>
>> crannies of the isometric landscape, and that is somewhat tedious since
>>
>> I haven't found  a 'free camera' control button yet - i.e. I need to
>>
>> press the mousewheel down to rotate  the camera.
>>
>>
>>
>> So far I have found that there are at least 3 fundamentally different
>>
>> ways to play the first encounter with hostiles, all yield experience for
>>
>> the team, and in my purview that is a Good Thing. Many ways to skin a
>>
>> cat, and many ways of skinning to discover, test, and play around with.
>>
>> I am sure there are yet many things to discover, even about basic
>>
>> gameplay, that I haven't scratched the surface of. I have begun to do
>>
>> some save-scumming just to facilitate experimentation with different
>>
>> approaches to a problem the game sets me. I.e.: Hey, demolition skill
>>
>> can be used to defuse traps!
>>
>>
>>
>> Happy to discuss gameplay and experience-based impressions from here on
>>
>> as I am working my way into the game (rather than waffling on about
>>
>> someone's conjecture about something they haven't even seen).
>>
>>
>>
>> -P.
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
>>
>> http://www.avast.com
>
> I am playing the game.  I have some trouble with the digital manual and find it difficult to get my questions answered there so am going to post them here when/if.
>
> Right now I have some characters that have a plus sign on there little portraits at the bottom of the screen.  Can't figure out what this means.  It does not seem to be related to skill points or action points.  Any help would be great.
>
> For the record, I am an enthusiastic but not very good rpg player.  Notwithstanding I loved the original Fallout Games and very much enjoyed Fallout 3 and New Vegas.  This game is much harder than they were (at least for me).  I find it much easier to coddle one main character than 4.  I do like the game though I can sense many hours of frustration as I work my way through it.  the graphics are fine for the kind of game this is.  And there are certainly challenges.  It is just a bit of a shame that part of the challenge involves figuring out what things mean and how to do things rather than just the things to do.
>
> Anyway, any help would be great.
>

Am 21.09.14 15:52, schrieb Werner Punz:
> Am 21.09.14 10:00, schrieb Andrew Rybenkov:
>> On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 10:38:25 +0400, Werner Punz <we...@gmx.at> wrote:
>>
>>> Which of course is important in a turn based fps :-)
>>>
>>
>> it shows embarrassing inefficiency of the engine.
>>
> First of all I dont mind the inefficiency as long as it runs fine which
> it does. But, this has less to do with Unity and more with inXiles RGP
> engine on top of it.
> I also play the latest Tex Murphy installment which is also Unity based
> and there in the 3d part I  get a constant 60+ fps in 1920x1200. So it
> is less Unity more the engine on top of it.
>
>
Btw. I just started the game for the first time in 3 months, not only my 
savegames were carried over from the beta
which was a nice surprise, also I am getting constant 60fps with steam 
streaming 1920x1200 everything turned on to the max.



Werner

I just got it Saturday, and have been playing is as much as I can which 
isn't an awful lot.

The game seems to be playing fine... once it loads.  The loading times 
are pretty long between areas and especially upon first loading the 
game.  It's not quite as bad as I had with Witcher originally, but it's 
noticeably bad.  Once an area is loaded going back and forth is pretty 
quick though, and I haven't noticed any frame-rate problems, Other than 
right after an area loads it seems to take a second or two to kick into 
gear.  I am running 64 bit win 8, and something like a 6 year old dual 
core pentium at 2.4 ghz, and Gforce 250 something or other with 4GB of ram.

I really don't like having to rotate the view to see stuff, it's as said 
'tedious'.  You can zoom all the way out and it becomes more like at top 
down, but details are harder to make out.  I've been using Q and E to 
rotate the view since I'm doing it so much.  I'm also finding it tedious 
to keep to have switching back and forth from group to solo all the time, 
and occasionally screwing something up because I'm in the wrong mode.

I took pregens first up to the 2nd area, but started over swapping one 
out for a home made one as one of the pregens had a skill that I didn't 
want.  

I never did play the original Wasteland very far, coming to it only after 
fallout 2, so I can't say how true it is to that, but it feels somewhat 
Fallout like, although more like Fallout Tactics with a bit more RP.  I 
think I prefer the single PC with NPCs vs. this 4 person squad with NPCs, 
it makes the fights really long in turn based.  Maybe an 'auto' fight is 
needed.  I really need to find the manual, some of the stuff isn't very 
obvious.  I'm still trying to figure out what the 'recovery' surgeon 
items do.  I don't really know what the effects of various ability scores 
are either other than the obvious of Intelligence giving you more skills 
at level up and something affecting AP points, I don't really see any 
effect to any of the other ability scores.  I think I'd like to make more 
effective characters, but I don't know how yet and don't want to spoil 
the fun of trying to figure it out on my own... yet.

I've come across a considerable number of pop-culture references, but 
nothing seems to be terribly funny.  They seem to be trying to do like 
Fallout 1 & 2 in that regard but failing.  

I'd give it a cautious recommend at this point.  If you liked Tactics I'd 
say it's a full recommend.  If you don't like turn based, it's not for you.

Spoilers for Ag Center
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
I'm at the Ag Center, and I've got a couple of my people infected, one 
because I couldn't see a pod hidden under some other foliage and around a 
corner when a fight started in the mushrooms.  The other because of a 
group/solo mess up.  

I've been told there's fungicide in the basement I need for the cure, but 
I've been unable to find any amongst the mushrooms, and I'm running out 
of packs for field medic to heal people from poison air and monsters, I'm 
running out of time before my infected turn into zombies, but it's 
seeming to be more interesting to play through to see what happens than 
reload a save, so I'm going with it.

- Justiaur

In article <a89e7221-a4de-4720...@googlegroups.com>, 
just...@gmail.com says...
> 
> I'm at the Ag Center, and I've got a couple of my people infected, one 
> because I couldn't see a pod hidden under some other foliage and around a 
> corner when a fight started in the mushrooms.  The other because of a 
> group/solo mess up.  
> 
> I've been told there's fungicide in the basement I need for the cure, but 
> I've been unable to find any amongst the mushrooms, and I'm running out 
> of packs for field medic to heal people from poison air and monsters, I'm 
> running out of time before my infected turn into zombies, but it's 
> seeming to be more interesting to play through to see what happens than 
> reload a save, so I'm going with it.
> 
> - Justiaur
> 
> 


Some things are over so fast you miss'em. I was given a location 
(mushroom caves) and a name (S....) for the location of the fungicide.
The first time I saw that little  dark spot in the wall and walked 
through the tunnel-like entrance, Mr. S. flashed up on the screen and 
disappeared again, I never opened dialogue with him, so I didn't manage 
to talk him into unlocking the door .... which you need to do to 
proceed. The next time I returned and stood by his locked front door 
(off the utility cave) he showed up properly and opened dialogue.

I hated the pods next to chests that blow up and infect your people. 
Some research showed that apparently there was a toggle for 
sneaking or walking up, but this does not seem to have made it into the 
release version - I have not found reference to walking or sneaking in 
the controls section of the options, nor in the manual. But since one of 
the main objectives here is to discourage the hostile vegetation, I've 
laid off going near them and am biding my time. 

Unfortunately I cannot find the email with the link to the manual. I 
downloaded it from googledocs before the release date, but it's also 
available in the download section on GOG - presumably also on Steam some 
place.

As for what  different attributes do in character generation: the 
tooltips not only give you a brief, if you want to change an attribute 
and hold the cursor over your prospective choice, you will get a tooltip 
that shows the resulting increase/decrease in various secondary stats, 
like action points, crit percentage, combat initiative etc. Some 
secondaries are compound which makes this a bit tricky to figure out - 
i.e. a fraction of several stats contribute, so to see the real effect 
you need to experimentally increase one stat by 2 or 3 to see all 
effects, but increasing two attributes by 1 will do the same. 

Luck, apart from crit chance, apparently influences loot drops from 
chests. But since all locked chests immediately open on unlock, I cannot 
give my lucky crit sniper all the relevant skills as well, safecrack, 
lockpick, computer literacy .... a minor peeve so far. Conversely if I 
put all that on my 'thief', plus lotsa luck, they become totally 
incompetent in combat. :-(

-P.

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

Thank you for the answers to the plus.  I have found the manual interesting but way too wordy when I need to know what key does what stuff.

Set the camera to follow the characters but to my mind, it doesn't work well and I have used the Q and E keys but sometimes i swing back and forth without being able to centre the camera and it feels a bit like being on boat.

I am finding that it is easy to miss small things that are important and that means that using a top down view is frequently not appropriate.  Got lost in the Ag centre and wandered around in circles a lot till I found out how to switch the fans on and off.  This happened because I was not looking at the walls but only the floor as I moved the guys around.

I found it was easier to save a lot and reload in the ag centre so that my characters never got infected.  With my manoevering issues I didn't want to add the possibility of turning into a zombie because i didn't watch the clock.

Also, it turns out that some skills I didn't bother to invest in are needed at my next stop in the game.  I played the ag centre and the radio tower without paying any attention to the communication skills.  In the Rail Nomad Camp, it appears I need more of them but I don't have the additional skill points yet to invest in them. 

I am enjoying the game generally, though I haven't played in a couple of days and am not feeling like I MUST get back to it, like I have with a number of other games.  It would have been very helpful if it were possible to put notes on the maps of places to return to, at least.  I may need to wait till someone puts a really big walkthrough together that has readable maps in it because of my navigation issues.

In article <99fd9176-c899-483b...@googlegroups.com>, 
johnda...@gmail.com says...
> I am finding that it is easy to miss small things that are important 
> and that means that using a top down view is frequently not 
> appropriate.  

I have only yesterday discovered, purely by chance, that if you hold 
down the 'z' key all items, doors, etc that you can interact with will 
be highlighted.

Previously I had similar problems, particularly in very narrow spaces 
that the camera would sway and jump unpredictably if I tried to look 
into every nook and cranny. Walls getting into the view and such.

Top down, press Z.

-P.

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

Gopher just posted a W2 preview on YouTube.