🚀 go-pugleaf

"Todd Day" <thetodd@bellsouth.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:q9Wxe.40379$du.20730@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> Hello all ....
>
> I fell in love with Quake from the first few seconds of the first level
> .... and then Quake 2 came along and blew me away even more! Years
> later, I still play and replay Quake 2 over and over .... LOL ...
>
> One thing about Quake that bothers me thougth .... I liked the top-down
> map of each level in Doom. I know it's piddly shit ... but it was cool
> to be able to see where you'd been and if you had missed anything along
> the way through the level. I wish they had included that feature in Quake.
>
> Anyone know if anyone has ever developed an "add-on" utility, that sort
> of thing, that would enable a map-view of each level? I've tried a
> couple of Google searches but couldn't really come up with anything.
>
> TIA
>
> Frag on ...
>
> thetodd

none that I am aware of. I don't think it would be really possible, because
of the true 3D map structure in Quake.
in Doom you saw the level the same way as in the level editor when you used
the automap. the level consisted of linedefs and sidedefs which were
connected and made sectors which were connected to bigger structures. the
feeling of three-dimensionality in Doom has always dazzled me and still
does, considering the simple 2D-like structure of the levels. you won't find
a room above a room anywhere in Doom, because this does not exist. the map
shows you exactly where you are and is really useful.

in Quake, a 2D map view would not give a representative view of the level
and could confuse you more than doing anything else. you would need
something like a rotating 3D map, but this would be much more difficult to
use ( and to code :)
noone found it a rewarding idea to create something like this yet.

Grieve wrote:
> "Todd Day" <thetodd@bellsouth.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:q9Wxe.40379$du.20730@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> 
>>Hello all ....
>>
>>I fell in love with Quake from the first few seconds of the first level
>>.... and then Quake 2 came along and blew me away even more! Years
>>later, I still play and replay Quake 2 over and over .... LOL ...
>>
>>One thing about Quake that bothers me thougth .... I liked the top-down
>>map of each level in Doom. I know it's piddly shit ... but it was cool
>>to be able to see where you'd been and if you had missed anything along
>>the way through the level. I wish they had included that feature in Quake.
>>
>>Anyone know if anyone has ever developed an "add-on" utility, that sort
>>of thing, that would enable a map-view of each level? I've tried a
>>couple of Google searches but couldn't really come up with anything.
>>
>>TIA
>>
>>Frag on ...
>>
>>thetodd
> 
> 
> none that I am aware of. I don't think it would be really possible, because
> of the true 3D map structure in Quake.
> in Doom you saw the level the same way as in the level editor when you used
> the automap. the level consisted of linedefs and sidedefs which were
> connected and made sectors which were connected to bigger structures. the
> feeling of three-dimensionality in Doom has always dazzled me and still
> does, considering the simple 2D-like structure of the levels. you won't find
> a room above a room anywhere in Doom, because this does not exist. the map
> shows you exactly where you are and is really useful.
> 
> in Quake, a 2D map view would not give a representative view of the level
> and could confuse you more than doing anything else. you would need
> something like a rotating 3D map, but this would be much more difficult to
> use ( and to code :)
> noone found it a rewarding idea to create something like this yet.
> 
> 


Funny ... all the times I played Doom and Quake I never stopped to think 
that Doom was all one level and Quake uses multiple levels on top of one 
another! Simple but I never thought of it. That map problem makes sense, 
then!

Thanks!!

thetodd

I've always thought that it was just an excuse when they said the true
3D nature of the game made it impossible to have an in-game map.  When
this came up in the past, people have given examples of other "true 3D"
games that had maps.

I remember using the fly cheat to go up as high as you can, and you can
see much of the layout from that vantage point.  It's not quite the same
as a map, but it can help you get oriented if you've gotten confused.

"don" <don@no.spam> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:42C95604.E91D13BB@no.spam...
> I've always thought that it was just an excuse when they said the true
> 3D nature of the game made it impossible to have an in-game map.  When
> this came up in the past, people have given examples of other "true 3D"
> games that had maps.
>
> I remember using the fly cheat to go up as high as you can, and you can
> see much of the layout from that vantage point.  It's not quite the same
> as a map, but it can help you get oriented if you've gotten confused.


a 2D map with a birds view would be most likely very, very confusing and
frustrating. Imagine a building with several stories, but how should the map
code seperate them from each other ? for the game it's all only brushes (
resp. polygons), the game does not really have criteria to interpret the map
structure like a human does.
in birds view you would see through several stories at the same time without
knowing which detail belongs to which level.  there are lots of  wall
stuctures or map objects which are made of the same material as the rest of
the map .... generators, machines, inventory.
the map won't be able to recognize what the structures are intended to be
and how to seperathe each from other and how to show the details that are
most relevant for navigation ( main wall / floor structure ). you would see
a horrible mess of connected lines in your map, that's all.

try this: decompile a Quake map which was made by someone else and look at
it in the editor. I did sometimes. even with three different views it is
nearly impossible to get an idea what the map structure really is like. most
of the time I need the OpenGL preview window which shows the map like the
game itself does to find my way through and finally localize the deatails
that are of interest.