🚀 go-pugleaf

"AnonGoo" <christopherz.lee@gmail.com> schreef in bericht 
news:1173001813.485631.170130@30g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>A short video clip rekindled an old memories on Doom2 at
> http://geekvideo.blogspot.com/2007/03/doom-2-hell-on-earth.html ,
> featuring on-camera shots of John Romero, American McGee, Shawn Green
> and Jay Wilbur. :)

The music in the background made it so 1985... 

"Jahwe" <nobody@home.nl> wrote in message 
news:45eadb7b$0$748$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl...
> "AnonGoo" <christopherz.lee@gmail.com> schreef in bericht 
> news:1173001813.485631.170130@30g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>A short video clip rekindled an old memories on Doom2 at
>> http://geekvideo.blogspot.com/2007/03/doom-2-hell-on-earth.html ,
>> featuring on-camera shots of John Romero, American McGee, Shawn Green
>> and Jay Wilbur. :)
>
> The music in the background made it so 1985...

Surely you mean '95

"Jim Vieira"
>>>A short video clip rekindled an old memories on Doom2 at
>>> http://geekvideo.blogspot.com/2007/03/doom-2-hell-on-earth.html ,
>>> featuring on-camera shots of John Romero, American McGee, Shawn Green
>>> and Jay Wilbur. :)
>>
>> The music in the background made it so 1985...
>
> Surely you mean '95

I guessed someone would say that... But it seems to me more '85ish. Or else 
'95 was just as awful... Brrrr.

>
> 

Can you imagine if Doom came out in 1985.. I think our heads would have 
exploded.


"Jahwe" <nobody@home.nl> wrote in message 
news:45eae8a5$0$718$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl...
>
> "Jim Vieira"
>>>>A short video clip rekindled an old memories on Doom2 at
>>>> http://geekvideo.blogspot.com/2007/03/doom-2-hell-on-earth.html ,
>>>> featuring on-camera shots of John Romero, American McGee, Shawn Green
>>>> and Jay Wilbur. :)
>>>
>>> The music in the background made it so 1985...
>>
>> Surely you mean '95
>
> I guessed someone would say that... But it seems to me more '85ish. Or 
> else '95 was just as awful... Brrrr.
>
>>
>>
>
> 

On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 10:58:13 -0500, "room88" <Yenc@power-post.org>
wrote:

>Can you imagine if Doom came out in 1985.. I think our heads would have 
>exploded.

Even if the PC and game cost 5 grand, it would have saved me money. I
spent that much in quarters at arcades between 84 and 87.

On 4 Mar 2007, "AnonGoo" wrote:

> A short video clip rekindled an old memories on Doom2 at
> http://geekvideo.blogspot.com/2007/03/doom-2-hell-on-earth.html ,
> featuring on-camera shots of John Romero, American McGee, Shawn Green
> and Jay Wilbur. :)

American McGee has nothing to do with the masterpiece called DOOM
And if I remember correctly Shawn Green was only the tech support at
that time and Wilbur was business only, so the choice is totally
incorrect... Romero obviously, and John Carmack, Adrian Carmack, Kevin
Cloud, Something Petersen and the Prince with the sound and music,
that was the dream team... Tom Hall started but left I think in the
beginning...
I hope I'm not forgetting anyone
That was talent, and those talents together made magic and history
DOOM which includes 1 and 2 will always be no matter what The First
Person Shooter. The First Person Shooter, THE First Person Shooter,
The one that set the standard we all know about... everything else is
followers

pc games <pcgamer23708@yahoo.com> writes:

> On 4 Mar 2007, "AnonGoo" wrote:
>
>> A short video clip rekindled an old memories on Doom2 at
>> http://geekvideo.blogspot.com/2007/03/doom-2-hell-on-earth.html ,
>> featuring on-camera shots of John Romero, American McGee, Shawn Green
>> and Jay Wilbur. :)
>
> American McGee has nothing to do with the masterpiece called DOOM

American Mcgee started at ID. He was a level designer for Doom 2 you
muppet.

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007, Walter Mitty wrote:

> American Mcgee started at ID. He was a level designer for Doom 2 you

Quake, he worked in Quake not in DOOM 2, although I didn't remember
about he working in support with Shawn
http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/doom-ii-hell-on-earth

On 03/04/07 3:47 PM, pc games wrote:

> American McGee has nothing to do with the masterpiece called DOOM

Not the original game, but he did a couple of Ultimate Doom levels, and
several Doom 2 levels:
http://www.rome.ro/lee_killough/history/designer.shtml

-- 
Chris Odorjan - codorjan@gmail.com - http://www.execulink.com/~bobnet/

pc games <pcgamer23708@yahoo.com> writes:

> On Sun, 04 Mar 2007, Walter Mitty wrote:
>
>> American Mcgee started at ID. He was a level designer for Doom 2 you
>
> Quake, he worked in Quake not in DOOM 2, although I didn't remember
> about he working in support with Shawn
> http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/doom-ii-hell-on-earth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_McGee

"He was a level designer for such games as Doom II, Quake, and Quake
II."

"pc games" <pcgamer23708@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:o4gmu2ppk5p7jntal3r9slskdluao3mk4v@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 04 Mar 2007, Walter Mitty wrote:
>
>> American Mcgee started at ID. He was a level designer for Doom 2 you
>
> Quake, he worked in Quake not in DOOM 2, although I didn't remember
> about he working in support with Shawn
> http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/doom-ii-hell-on-earth

http://www.rome.ro/lee_killough/history/designer.shtml

http://www.rome.ro/lee_killough/history/levels.shtml

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007, Walter Mitty wrote:

> "He was a level designer for such games as Doom II, Quake, and Quake

Ok my mistake

In article <a2bmu29n7lgqfj5cj6st6lqmatsmbjouur@4ax.com>, pcgamer23708
@yahoo.com says...
> That was talent, and those talents together made magic and history
> DOOM which includes 1 and 2 will always be no matter what The First
> Person Shooter. The First Person Shooter, THE First Person Shooter,
> The one that set the standard we all know about... everything else is
> followers

yep :)

On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 16:41:25 +0100, "Jahwe" <nobody@home.nl> wrote:

>
>"Jim Vieira"
>>>>A short video clip rekindled an old memories on Doom2 at
>>>> http://geekvideo.blogspot.com/2007/03/doom-2-hell-on-earth.html ,
>>>> featuring on-camera shots of John Romero, American McGee, Shawn Green
>>>> and Jay Wilbur. :)
>>>
>>> The music in the background made it so 1985...
>>
>> Surely you mean '95
>
>I guessed someone would say that... But it seems to me more '85ish. Or else 
>'95 was just as awful... Brrrr.

Let me guess, you like whatever is fashionable + showtunes...

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 20:47:11 +0000, pc games <pcgamer23708@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On 4 Mar 2007, "AnonGoo" wrote:
>
>> A short video clip rekindled an old memories on Doom2 at
>> http://geekvideo.blogspot.com/2007/03/doom-2-hell-on-earth.html ,
>> featuring on-camera shots of John Romero, American McGee, Shawn Green
>> and Jay Wilbur. :)
>
>American McGee has nothing to do with the masterpiece called DOOM
>And if I remember correctly Shawn Green was only the tech support at
>that time and Wilbur was business only, so the choice is totally
>incorrect... Romero obviously, and John Carmack, Adrian Carmack, Kevin
>Cloud, Something Petersen and the Prince with the sound and music,
>that was the dream team... Tom Hall started but left I think in the
>beginning...
>I hope I'm not forgetting anyone
>That was talent, and those talents together made magic and history
>DOOM which includes 1 and 2 will always be no matter what The First
>Person Shooter. The First Person Shooter, THE First Person Shooter,
>The one that set the standard we all know about... everything else is
>followers

THE first FPS was Wolf 3D... 

But it was inevitable that someone would invent it.

The real followers are console games... In those games you circle-jerk
your way through targets by pressing buttons then firing... How about
using a mouse and aiming for yourself? 

Duke 3D was the first to come up with 2-axis mouse aiming...
everything else is followers.

 

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 22:10:19 +0100, Walter Mitty <mitticus@gmail.com>
wrote:

>pc games <pcgamer23708@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> On 4 Mar 2007, "AnonGoo" wrote:
>>
>>> A short video clip rekindled an old memories on Doom2 at
>>> http://geekvideo.blogspot.com/2007/03/doom-2-hell-on-earth.html ,
>>> featuring on-camera shots of John Romero, American McGee, Shawn Green
>>> and Jay Wilbur. :)
>>
>> American McGee has nothing to do with the masterpiece called DOOM
>
>American Mcgee started at ID. He was a level designer for Doom 2 you
>muppet.

Fuck American Mcgee... All his games sucked on cock

On Tue, 06 Mar 2007, count zero wrote:

> THE first FPS was Wolf 3D... 

Agree
But DOOM was the defining moment
 
> The real followers are console games... In those games you circle-jerk
> your way through targets by pressing buttons then firing... How about
> using a mouse and aiming for yourself? 

Consoles are crap
Consolist are dumb
Console makers are monopolist companies wanting to turn customers into
SLAVES
 
> Duke 3D was the first to come up with 2-axis mouse aiming...
> everything else is followers.

No it wasn't it was Terminator Future Shock, one of the most
innovative FPS ever created and one to be together with Wold3D (yes
definitely the first FPS ever created) and DOOM as all time best
Duke Nukem 3D is a very well made DOOM clone and became a classic, but
its a clone nonetheless
The innovation is with the humor which then gave birth to titles like
Serious Sam
Serious Sam is a "child" of Duke Nukem 3D and I feel that is a big
compliment cause Serious Sam is now also classic material

On Mar 4, 10:14 am, Tim O <tim...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 10:58:13 -0500, "room88" <Y...@power-post.org>
> wrote:
>
> >Can you imagine if Doom came out in 1985.. I think our heads would have
> >exploded.
>
> Even if the PC and game cost 5 grand, it would have saved me money. I
> spent that much in quarters at arcades between 84 and 87.


Yes!I spend around $20 a week which was a lot when you are 10-14 years
old trying to find coke bottles to return for .10 each....

"count zero" <countzero1942@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht 
news:np6qu25gapt07op09e0uuoudflet9k1lo2@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 4 Mar 2007 16:41:25 +0100, "Jahwe" <nobody@home.nl> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Jim Vieira"
>>>>>A short video clip rekindled an old memories on Doom2 at
>>>>> http://geekvideo.blogspot.com/2007/03/doom-2-hell-on-earth.html ,
>>>>> featuring on-camera shots of John Romero, American McGee, Shawn Green
>>>>> and Jay Wilbur. :)
>>>>
>>>> The music in the background made it so 1985...
>>>
>>> Surely you mean '95
>>
>>I guessed someone would say that... But it seems to me more '85ish. Or 
>>else
>>'95 was just as awful... Brrrr.
>
> Let me guess, you like whatever is fashionable + showtunes...

??? 

On Mar 6, 4:41 am, pc games <pcgamer23...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Mar 2007, count zero wrote:

> > Duke 3D was the first to come up with 2-axis mouse aiming...
> > everything else is followers.
>
> No it wasn't it was Terminator Future Shock, one of the most
> innovative FPS ever created and one to be together with Wold3D (yes
> definitely the first FPS ever created)

Have you tried Robocop 3D (Ocean)?  Released shortly after Wolf 3D in
1992, and used the mouse for 2-axis aiming.  It wasn't strictly an FPS
though, so it may not count.

On 03/06/07 3:12 AM, count zero wrote:

> THE first FPS was Wolf 3D... 

Wolfenstein 3D wasn't even id's first FPS, let alone the world's:
Catacombs 3D used a similar engine (although for EGA instead of VGA),
and the even older Hovertank 3D could probably be classified as a
first-person shooter.

Nor was Doom the first multiplayer FPS. That honour probably goes to
MIDI Maze.

Although it's probably true that Wolf3D, and to a greater extent Doom,
ushered in the modern FPS era...

-- 
Chris Odorjan - codorjan@gmail.com - http://www.execulink.com/~bobnet/

Chris Odorjan said the following on 3/7/2007 10:24 AM:
> On 03/06/07 3:12 AM, count zero wrote:
> 
>> THE first FPS was Wolf 3D... 
> 
> Wolfenstein 3D wasn't even id's first FPS, let alone the world's:
> Catacombs 3D used a similar engine (although for EGA instead of VGA),
> and the even older Hovertank 3D could probably be classified as a
> first-person shooter.
> 
> Nor was Doom the first multiplayer FPS. That honour probably goes to
> MIDI Maze.
> 
> Although it's probably true that Wolf3D, and to a greater extent Doom,
> ushered in the modern FPS era...
> 
ahhh... the 70's and 80's: mid 70's Adventure type games (Zork 1,2 & 3, 
etc;) to the 80's ascii games that waited for input on a background 
picture that depicted the current game environment. Then to the 90's 
with id's first PC game with motion: Commander Keen - that got the ball 
rolling with a new marketing method: give away part of the game free... 
pay later for the rest of the game. And herewe are now fussing over 
whether our video card can get a gazillion frames per second with the 
latest game. How time flies when you're having fun  :-)

-- 
(^\pop/^) (not bob, qoq or dod)
I Stopped to think but forgot to start again.
--

pop wrote:
> Chris Odorjan said the following on 3/7/2007 10:24 AM:
> 
>> On 03/06/07 3:12 AM, count zero wrote:
>>
>>> THE first FPS was Wolf 3D... 
>>
>>
>> Wolfenstein 3D wasn't even id's first FPS, let alone the world's:
>> Catacombs 3D used a similar engine (although for EGA instead of VGA),
>> and the even older Hovertank 3D could probably be classified as a
>> first-person shooter.
>>
>> Nor was Doom the first multiplayer FPS. That honour probably goes to
>> MIDI Maze.
>>
>> Although it's probably true that Wolf3D, and to a greater extent Doom,
>> ushered in the modern FPS era...
>>
> ahhh... the 70's and 80's: mid 70's Adventure type games (Zork 1,2 & 3, 
> etc;) to the 80's ascii games that waited for input on a background 
> picture that depicted the current game environment. Then to the 90's 
> with id's first PC game with motion: Commander Keen - that got the ball 
> rolling with a new marketing method: give away part of the game free... 
> pay later for the rest of the game. And herewe are now fussing over 
> whether our video card can get a gazillion frames per second with the 
> latest game. How time flies when you're having fun  :-)
> 
Oh yeah, I remember. First monitor was mono B&W, then Hercules, then 
CGA, then EGA, then VGA, then SVGA.......

On 7 Mar 2007, rob.ocelot@gmail.com wrote:

> Have you tried Robocop 3D (Ocean)?  Released shortly after Wolf 3D in
> 1992, and used the mouse for 2-axis aiming.  It wasn't strictly an FPS
> though, so it may not count.

Never played it... didn't know it existed
Is it a PC game? Did it played in First Person view?

Future Shock introduced what is now the standard...
Head movement is done by the mouse when previously with the id
standard Wolf3D/DOOM it was fixed.
That was the innovation which for me was an enormous one cause its
still used nowadays

On Wed, 07 Mar 2007, Chris Odorjan wrote:

> Wolfenstein 3D wasn't even id's first FPS, let alone the world's:
> Catacombs 3D used a similar engine (although for EGA instead of VGA),
> and the even older Hovertank 3D could probably be classified as a
> first-person shooter.

Hovertank is not a First Person Shooter cause you are driving a tank.
Its like calling any Driving game a First Person Shooter, yes the view
is First Person but nobody calls Driving games FPS and Hovertank is a
driving tank Action game.

Catacomb 3D is different cause its an Action game played in First
Person view but I do prefer to name Wolfenstein 3D the first cause, in
Catacomb 3D you don't have a weapon... ok probably it sounds strange
but try playing Catacomb 3D... it feels like a FPS, it even plays like
a FPS but at the end you feel Wolfenstein 3D is the first and Catacomb
3D was more of an "experience"
Ok I admit Catacomb 3D can be consider the first one, but I will
probably always name Wolfenstein 3D the one
Don't forget both are from id so id will always be credited as the
creators... now if its Catacomb 3D or Wolfenstein 3D I feel its a
secondary issue

"Chris Odorjan" <codorjan@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:gj53c4-tna.ln1@bobnet.odorjan.ca...
> On 03/06/07 3:12 AM, count zero wrote:
>
>> THE first FPS was Wolf 3D...
>
> Wolfenstein 3D wasn't even id's first FPS, let alone the world's:
> Catacombs 3D used a similar engine (although for EGA instead of VGA),
> and the even older Hovertank 3D could probably be classified as a
> first-person shooter.
>
> Nor was Doom the first multiplayer FPS. That honour probably goes to
> MIDI Maze.
>
> Although it's probably true that Wolf3D, and to a greater extent Doom,
> ushered in the modern FPS era...

Could you shoot in the C64 game, Scarabeus?

"Jahwe" <nobody@home.nl> wrote in
news:45eae8a5$0$718$5fc3050@dreader2.news.tiscali.nl: 

> 
> "Jim Vieira"
>>>>A short video clip rekindled an old memories on Doom2 at
>>>> http://geekvideo.blogspot.com/2007/03/doom-2-hell-on-earth.html ,
>>>> featuring on-camera shots of John Romero, American McGee, Shawn
>>>> Green and Jay Wilbur. :)
>>>
>>> The music in the background made it so 1985...
>>
>> Surely you mean '95
> 
> I guessed someone would say that... But it seems to me more '85ish. Or
> else '95 was just as awful... Brrrr.
> 


The video's from early 1994 or even late 1993, when Doom was still only 
shareware and they were ramping up to the retail release and planning Doom 
2. 

-- 
Tweek

On Mar 7, 3:56 pm, pc games <pcgamer23...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 7 Mar 2007, rob.oce...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Have you tried Robocop 3D (Ocean)?  Released shortly after Wolf 3D in
> > 1992, and used the mouse for 2-axis aiming.  It wasn't strictly an FPS
> > though, so it may not count.
>
> Never played it... didn't know it existed
> Is it a PC game? Did it played in First Person view?
>
> Future Shock introduced what is now the standard...
> Head movement is done by the mouse when previously with the id
> standard Wolf3D/DOOM it was fixed.
> That was the innovation which for me was an enormous one cause its
> still used nowadays

PC, Amiga, and ST though it is probably best known in it's Amiga form
because it used the Epic game engine (which was a 3D space shooter).
Parts of the game were FPS with keyboard control for movement and
mouse for aiming, other parts were first person driving and 3rd person
flying with a jetpack.  In an ironic way it's more in tune with what
the game industry seems to want now, a game where you are in different
vehicles/scenarios like GTA as opposed to a pure straight up FPS.

On Mar 4, 1:50 am, "AnonGoo" <christopherz....@gmail.com> wrote:
> A short video clip rekindled an old memories on Doom2 athttp://geekvideo.blogspot.com/2007/03/doom-2-hell-on-earth.html,
> featuring on-camera shots of John Romero, American McGee, Shawn Green
> and Jay Wilbur. :)

Any Doom fans should check out the classic Doom mod for Doom 3. It's
the classic Doom game using the Doom 3 engine. Really cool.

http://cdoom.d3files.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=29&Itemid=15

count zero wrote:
> On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 22:10:19 +0100, Walter Mitty <mitticus@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> pc games <pcgamer23708@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 4 Mar 2007, "AnonGoo" wrote:
>>>
>>>> A short video clip rekindled an old memories on Doom2 at
>>>> http://geekvideo.blogspot.com/2007/03/doom-2-hell-on-earth.html ,
>>>> featuring on-camera shots of John Romero, American McGee, Shawn
>>>> Green and Jay Wilbur. :)
>>>
>>> American McGee has nothing to do with the masterpiece called DOOM
>>
>> American Mcgee started at ID. He was a level designer for Doom 2 you
>> muppet.
>
> Fuck American Mcgee... All his games sucked on cock

Including THE second most popular multiplayer FPS ever, Quake II?
(The most popular for some reason is Counterstrike, but then it's always 
attracted a far greater number of lamers...)

-- 
-- 
* I always hope for the best. Experience, unfortunately, has taught me
to expect the worst.

Yahoo: evilbill_agqx
Web: http://www.evilbill.org.uk 

On Thu, 08 Mar 2007, Tweek wrote:

>>>>> featuring on-camera shots of John Romero, American McGee, Shawn
>>>>> Green and Jay Wilbur. :)
>>> Surely you mean '95
>> 
>> I guessed someone would say that... But it seems to me more '85ish. Or
>> else '95 was just as awful... Brrrr.
> 
> The video's from early 1994 or even late 1993, when Doom was still only 
> shareware and they were ramping up to the retail release and planning Doom 
> 2. 

Are you sure? Did American McGree start working at id so soon?

On 8 Mar 2007, "rob.ocelot@gmail.com" wrote:

> PC, Amiga, and ST though it is probably best known in it's Amiga form
> because it used the Epic game engine (which was a 3D space shooter).
> Parts of the game were FPS with keyboard control for movement and
> mouse for aiming, other parts were first person driving and 3rd person
> flying with a jetpack.  In an ironic way it's more in tune with what
> the game industry seems to want now, a game where you are in different
> vehicles/scenarios like GTA as opposed to a pure straight up FPS.

http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/robocop-3_/screenshots/gameShotId,168431/
Not impressed by the 1st person screenshot from Moby Games

Are you sure this game deserves to be talked about?
Even Hovertank looks much better

On Thu, 8 Mar 2007 20:26:05 -0000, "EvilBill" <quake2lives@gmail.com>
wrote:

>count zero wrote:
>> On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 22:10:19 +0100, Walter Mitty <mitticus@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> pc games <pcgamer23708@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 4 Mar 2007, "AnonGoo" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> A short video clip rekindled an old memories on Doom2 at
>>>>> http://geekvideo.blogspot.com/2007/03/doom-2-hell-on-earth.html ,
>>>>> featuring on-camera shots of John Romero, American McGee, Shawn
>>>>> Green and Jay Wilbur. :)
>>>>
>>>> American McGee has nothing to do with the masterpiece called DOOM
>>>
>>> American Mcgee started at ID. He was a level designer for Doom 2 you
>>> muppet.
>>
>> Fuck American Mcgee... All his games sucked on cock
>
>Including THE second most popular multiplayer FPS ever, Quake II?

That wasn't exactly his game...

I was talking about the games that had his name in it, like "America
Mcgee's Alice" and  some other games which all got bad reviews.

>(The most popular for some reason is Counterstrike, but then it's always 
>attracted a far greater number of lamers...)

That's cool if he did Counterstrike and CS Source... I have it
installed on my computer but I haven't gotten around to playing it
yet... It came with HL2

On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 09:41:29 +0000, pc games <pcgamer23708@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On Tue, 06 Mar 2007, count zero wrote:
>
>> THE first FPS was Wolf 3D... 
>
>Agree
>But DOOM was the defining moment
> 
>> The real followers are console games... In those games you circle-jerk
>> your way through targets by pressing buttons then firing... How about
>> using a mouse and aiming for yourself? 
>
>Consoles are crap
>Consolist are dumb
>Console makers are monopolist companies wanting to turn customers into
>SLAVES
> 
>> Duke 3D was the first to come up with 2-axis mouse aiming...
>> everything else is followers.
>
>No it wasn't it was Terminator Future Shock, one of the most
>innovative FPS ever created and one to be together with Wold3D 

Im pretty sure TFS came after because it wouldn't play on my 386 AMD
40 Mhz 4 MB which Wolf 3D rocked on... 

>(yes
>definitely the first FPS ever created) and DOOM as all time best
>Duke Nukem 3D is a very well made DOOM clone and became a classic, but
>its a clone nonetheless

Duke 3D was groundbreaking at the time. It had 2 axis mouse look,
creative weapons like the ice gun where you shatter the frozen enemy
and the shrink gun where you step on it. It also had good location
graphics, like city scapes, plus collapsing buildings and mountains,
not to mention great dialog for the time... Too bad Duke Nukem Forever
never materialized... 

>The innovation is with the humor which then gave birth to titles like
>Serious Sam
>Serious Sam is a "child" of Duke Nukem 3D and I feel that is a big
>compliment cause Serious Sam is now also classic material

Yeah maybe Duke Forever should've used the Quake 3 engine like Serious
Sam and got it over and done with... Now all we have is Duke Fornever
still haunting us 12 years later...

Duke is no doubt rolling in his grave...

BTW, did anyone actually beat Serious Sam 1???

I gave up after the arena of endless Rhinos...

On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 11:24:51 -0500, Chris Odorjan <codorjan@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 03/06/07 3:12 AM, count zero wrote:
>
>> THE first FPS was Wolf 3D... 
>
>Wolfenstein 3D wasn't even id's first FPS, let alone the world's:
>Catacombs 3D used a similar engine (although for EGA instead of VGA),

Wow that's weird... Catacombs 3D came out in 1991 but I never heard of
it, even though I played other Carmack games like Commander Keen
around the same time... I guess it didn't make much of a buzz around
the BBS's at the time... (I would've loved to own a 14.4 Kbps USR back
then!) 

>and the even older Hovertank 3D could probably be classified as a
>first-person shooter.
>
>Nor was Doom the first multiplayer FPS. That honour probably goes to
>MIDI Maze.
>
>Although it's probably true that Wolf3D, and to a greater extent Doom,
>ushered in the modern FPS era...

count zero said the following on 3/9/2007 4:54 AM:
> On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 11:24:51 -0500, Chris Odorjan <codorjan@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 03/06/07 3:12 AM, count zero wrote:
>>
>>> THE first FPS was Wolf 3D... 
>> Wolfenstein 3D wasn't even id's first FPS, let alone the world's:
>> Catacombs 3D used a similar engine (although for EGA instead of VGA),
> 
> Wow that's weird... Catacombs 3D came out in 1991 but I never heard of
> it, even though I played other Carmack games like Commander Keen
> around the same time... I guess it didn't make much of a buzz around
> the BBS's at the time... (I would've loved to own a 14.4 Kbps USR back
> then!) 
> 
>> and the even older Hovertank 3D could probably be classified as a
>> first-person shooter.
>>
>> Nor was Doom the first multiplayer FPS. That honour probably goes to
>> MIDI Maze.
>>
>> Although it's probably true that Wolf3D, and to a greater extent Doom,
>> ushered in the modern FPS era...
> 

There were three games of Catacombs 3D: Catacombs abyss, Catacombs curse 
and Catacombs terror. I don't remember which order they were released 
but I think abyss was the first one.

-- 
(^\pop/^) (not bob, qoq or dod)
I Stopped to think but forgot to start again.
--

count zero wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Mar 2007 20:26:05 -0000, "EvilBill" <quake2lives@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> count zero wrote:
>>> On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 22:10:19 +0100, Walter Mitty
>>> <mitticus@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> pc games <pcgamer23708@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 4 Mar 2007, "AnonGoo" wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> A short video clip rekindled an old memories on Doom2 at
>>>>>> http://geekvideo.blogspot.com/2007/03/doom-2-hell-on-earth.html ,
>>>>>> featuring on-camera shots of John Romero, American McGee, Shawn
>>>>>> Green and Jay Wilbur. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> American McGee has nothing to do with the masterpiece called DOOM
>>>>
>>>> American Mcgee started at ID. He was a level designer for Doom 2
>>>> you muppet.
>>>
>>> Fuck American Mcgee... All his games sucked on cock
>>
>> Including THE second most popular multiplayer FPS ever, Quake II?
>
> That wasn't exactly his game...
>

He did work on it. <g>

> I was talking about the games that had his name in it, like "America
> Mcgee's Alice" and  some other games which all got bad reviews.
>

Ah, never played any of those.

>> (The most popular for some reason is Counterstrike, but then it's
>> always attracted a far greater number of lamers...)
>
> That's cool if he did Counterstrike and CS Source... I have it
> installed on my computer but I haven't gotten around to playing it
> yet... It came with HL2

Nope, no American McGee involvement there (well, unless you can count 
HL1 for using parts of the original Quake engine, but then they might 
just as well credit John Carmack. <g>)

-- 
-- 
* I always hope for the best. Experience, unfortunately, has taught me
to expect the worst.

Yahoo: evilbill_agqx
Web: http://www.evilbill.org.uk

count zero wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 09:41:29 +0000, pc games <pcgamer23708@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 06 Mar 2007, count zero wrote:
>>
>>> THE first FPS was Wolf 3D...
>>
>> Agree
>> But DOOM was the defining moment
>>
>>> The real followers are console games... In those games you
>>> circle-jerk your way through targets by pressing buttons then
>>> firing... How about using a mouse and aiming for yourself?
>>
>> Consoles are crap
>> Consolist are dumb
>> Console makers are monopolist companies wanting to turn customers
>> into SLAVES
>>
>>> Duke 3D was the first to come up with 2-axis mouse aiming...
>>> everything else is followers.
>>
>> No it wasn't it was Terminator Future Shock, one of the most
>> innovative FPS ever created and one to be together with Wold3D
>
> Im pretty sure TFS came after because it wouldn't play on my 386 AMD
> 40 Mhz 4 MB which Wolf 3D rocked on...
>
>> (yes
>> definitely the first FPS ever created) and DOOM as all time best
>> Duke Nukem 3D is a very well made DOOM clone and became a classic,
>> but its a clone nonetheless
>
> Duke 3D was groundbreaking at the time. It had 2 axis mouse look,
> creative weapons like the ice gun where you shatter the frozen enemy
> and the shrink gun where you step on it. It also had good location
> graphics, like city scapes, plus collapsing buildings and mountains,
> not to mention great dialog for the time... Too bad Duke Nukem Forever
> never materialized...
>
>> The innovation is with the humor which then gave birth to titles like
>> Serious Sam
>> Serious Sam is a "child" of Duke Nukem 3D and I feel that is a big
>> compliment cause Serious Sam is now also classic material
>
> Yeah maybe Duke Forever should've used the Quake 3 engine like Serious
> Sam and got it over and done with... Now all we have is Duke Fornever
> still haunting us 12 years later...
>
> Duke is no doubt rolling in his grave...
>
> BTW, did anyone actually beat Serious Sam 1???
>

Yup.


...On the easiest diffixulty. ;)

> I gave up after the arena of endless Rhinos...

-- 
-- 
* I always hope for the best. Experience, unfortunately, has taught me
to expect the worst.

Yahoo: evilbill_agqx
Web: http://www.evilbill.org.uk 

count zero said the following on 3/9/2007 4:40 AM:
> On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 09:41:29 +0000, pc games <pcgamer23708@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, 06 Mar 2007, count zero wrote:
>>
<snip>
> 
> BTW, did anyone actually beat Serious Sam 1???
> 
> I gave up after the arena of endless Rhinos...

me, me, me did (pffft - but I used cheats :)

-- 
(^\pop/^) (not bob, qoq or dod)
I Stopped to think but forgot to start again.
--

On Fri, 09 Mar 2007, count zero wrote:

> Yeah maybe Duke Forever should've used the Quake 3 engine like Serious

DNF is still in development... yes its not a joke... they switched to
the Unreal 2 engine a couple of years ago... and since then Epic
already released a third version of that engine
There were some rumors about they switching (again) now to the DOOM 3
engine but they denied

> Sam and got it over and done with... Now all we have is Duke Fornever
> still haunting us 12 years later...

Serious Sam didn't use Quake 3 engine but its own called appropriately
"Serious engine", although I bet it was highly inspired by Quake 3
engine
 
> Duke is no doubt rolling in his grave...

Duke is not dead, he will be back, at least I hope so...
 
> BTW, did anyone actually beat Serious Sam 1???

Yep, first encounter and second encounter
I finished them at least two times

> I gave up after the arena of endless Rhinos...

A classic First Person Shooter moment
Simply indescribable
Pure genius

Unbelievable what Croteam them do with Serious Sam 2
So awful...
How can such talent disappear all the sudden
I hope the same doesn't happen with DNF/3D Realms, so in that regard
its better they take time to do it right

On Fri, 09 Mar 2007, pop wrote:

> There were three games of Catacombs 3D: Catacombs abyss, Catacombs curse 
> and Catacombs terror. I don't remember which order they were released 
> but I think abyss was the first one.

We all really need some PC Game history lessons
Catacomb 3D was id's creation when they worked at Softdisk
Now after they left, Softdisk picked up the game and made 3 sequels
called Abyss, Apocalypse and Armageddon.
Neither are from id, but they use the same characters and engine
So to resume...
Catacomb 3D, the first, the original from id, published by Softdisk
Catacomb Abyss, Apocalypse and Armageddon, sequels not made by id that
came later are were also published by Softdisk

On Mar 7, 8:24 am, Chris Odorjan <codor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 03/06/07 3:12 AM, count zero wrote:
>
> > THE first FPS was Wolf 3D...
>
> Wolfenstein 3D wasn't even id's first FPS, let alone the world's:
> Catacombs 3D used a similar engine (although for EGA instead of VGA),
> and the even older Hovertank 3D could probably be classified as a
> first-person shooter.
>
> Nor was Doom the first multiplayer FPS. That honour probably goes to
> MIDI Maze.
>
> Although it's probably true that Wolf3D, and to a greater extent Doom,
> ushered in the modern FPS era...
>
> --
> Chris Odorjan - codor...@gmail.com -http://www.execulink.com/~bobnet/

http://www.classic-pc-games.com/pc/arcade_action/castle_wolfenstein.html

The real Wolfenstein!! I recall my brother playing this til all hours
of the night and how glued to the screen I was as a 10 year old. Cool
game.

On 03/09/07 5:54 AM, count zero wrote:

> Wow that's weird... Catacombs 3D came out in 1991 but I never heard of
> it, even though I played other Carmack games like Commander Keen
> around the same time... I guess it didn't make much of a buzz around
> the BBS's at the time... (I would've loved to own a 14.4 Kbps USR back
> then!) 

Same here; I usually kept up with games that were released as shareware,
but this one seemed to sneak in under the radar...

Actually, that could be because I didn't have an EGA-capable card until
1993 sometime. Although I was certainly aware of Commander Keen before then.

-- 
Chris Odorjan - codorjan@gmail.com - http://www.execulink.com/~bobnet/

"EvilBill" <quake2lives@gmail.com> wrote in news:55b9qhF23jjpeU1
@mid.individual.net:

> 
> Including THE second most popular multiplayer FPS ever, Quake II?
> (The most popular for some reason is Counterstrike, but then it's always 
> attracted a far greater number of lamers...)

For some reason, I could never appreciate Quake II as much as the original
Quake.


-- 

Aaron J. Bossig

http://www.GodsLabRat.com
http://www.dvdverdict.com 

Aaron J. Bossig wrote:
> "EvilBill" <quake2lives@gmail.com> wrote in news:55b9qhF23jjpeU1
> @mid.individual.net:
>
>>
>> Including THE second most popular multiplayer FPS ever, Quake II?
>> (The most popular for some reason is Counterstrike, but then it's
>> always attracted a far greater number of lamers...)
>
> For some reason, I could never appreciate Quake II as much as the
> original Quake.

Heretic! Infidel!! ;)

-- 
-- 
* I always hope for the best. Experience, unfortunately, has taught me
to expect the worst.

Yahoo: evilbill_agqx
Web: http://www.evilbill.org.uk 

On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 18:00:25 +0000, EvilBill wrote:

>> For some reason, I could never appreciate Quake II as much as the
>> original Quake.
 
> Heretic! Infidel!! ;)

I used to love Heretic.  Never got quite the same kick from Hexen, though.

As for the Quakes.... close one, but I'd have to go with Q2.

-- 
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".

On Mar 9, 4:23 am, pc games <pcgamer23...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 8 Mar 2007, "rob.oce...@gmail.com" wrote:
>
> > PC, Amiga, and ST though it is probably best known in it's Amiga form
> > because it used the Epic game engine (which was a 3D space shooter).
> > Parts of the game were FPS with keyboard control for movement and
> > mouse for aiming, other parts were first person driving and 3rd person
> > flying with a jetpack.  In an ironic way it's more in tune with what
> > the game industry seems to want now, a game where you are in different
> > vehicles/scenarios like GTA as opposed to a pure straight up FPS.
>
> http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/robocop-3_/screenshots/gameShotId,1...
> Not impressed by the 1st person screenshot from Moby Games
>
> Are you sure this game deserves to be talked about?
> Even Hovertank looks much better

Screenshots are from the EGA PC version, Eww.

And since when did graphics count anyway, this is a classic gaming
group :-)

On 10 Mar 2007, "rob.ocelot@gmail.com" wrote:

>> http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/robocop-3_/screenshots/gameShotId,1...
>> Not impressed by the 1st person screenshot from Moby Games
>>
>> Are you sure this game deserves to be talked about?
>> Even Hovertank looks much better
> 
> Screenshots are from the EGA PC version, Eww.
> 
> And since when did graphics count anyway, this is a classic gaming
> group :-)

I'm comparing it with Hovertank which was done one year before Robocop
3D and both are EGA so isn't it a fair comparison?

As for graphics in games... for me Wolfenstein 3D still looks awesome
and that will never change
You know graphics for me is not about resolution, its about creativity
and that is timeless

--
"8 hrs of gameplay ? When ?  Around Christmas 2008 ?
Joining DNF on the never-never merry-go-round ? The hold-up is
probably because Valve is still figuring where to put the in-game ads.
On Alyx's rear-end ?"
John Lewis (About upcoming ridiculously delayed Half-Life 2 Episode 2)
in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action March 9, 2007

I still have Doom up and running ... all of them.
I switched to Jdoom, and even have a mouse
and OpenGL graphics. Fireballs never looked
so good.

johns