🚀 go-pugleaf

Erland Andreassen wrote:
> 
> One thing I love with JA2 is the ability to snipe the enemy. However, since
> most bigger weapons makes a loud crack when fired it draws attention. Is there
> only silencers for smg's and pistols? How far away can you be firing a shot
> and not alerting the rest of the enemy?

I've tried this and I don't think you can mount the silencer onto a
rifle, or the more powerful submachine guns like the MP53 and AKSU-74. I
guess the reasoning behind it was they're too powerful to suppress, but
IRL suppressed rifles are excellent sniping weapons because the report
of the firearm is muffled. The sonic crack of the bullet isn't clear
enough to tell where the shot came from and leaves the enemy confused.

Perhaps for JADG2 or JA3...

Andy K.

-- 
**NEW** E-mail:  gryphon223 <AT> home <DOT> com
ICQ:  5025799 (authorization required)

"Gun control is using both hands"

"I'm gettin you back bully, now once and for good!"
	-- Eminem - Brain Damage (Slim Shady LP)

On 29-Aug-99 08:15:37 the geek with name Andy Krywonizka wrote:
>> there only silencers for smg's and pistols? How far away can you be firing
>> a shot and not alerting the rest of the enemy?
>I've tried this and I don't think you can mount the silencer onto a
>rifle, or the more powerful submachine guns like the MP53 and AKSU-74. I
>guess the reasoning behind it was they're too powerful to suppress, but
>IRL suppressed rifles are excellent sniping weapons because the report
>of the firearm is muffled. The sonic crack of the bullet isn't clear
>enough to tell where the shot came from and leaves the enemy confused.

>Perhaps for JADG2 or JA3...

Yeah, or the use of crossbows as someone else mentioned. 

The loud "crack" you hear would be the sonic boom of the bullet breaking the sound
barrier.  While is is not as loud as the weapon it is loud enough, I  still need
hearing protection to prevent damage if you are inspecting the targets, down
range, if the range has a bunker set up.

5.56mm N 7.62mm N 7.62mm X 39 and 5.45mm WP all exceed the speed of sound @ 1080
FPS at sea level.  Most pistol rounds do also, so the silencer would have a speed
reducer, to slow the bullet down.  This would in lower the effectiviness of the
weapon.  .45 is ideal for silenced weapons because it never exceeds the speed of
sound.  The game dose not however incorporate this.  To silence a rifle you would
need to slow the bullet down to almost ineffective speed.  The game dose not have
crossbows or bows, like it should either.

Erland Andreassen wrote:

> One thing I love with JA2 is the ability to snipe the enemy. However, since
> most bigger weapons makes a loud crack when fired it draws attention. Is there
> only silencers for smg's and pistols? How far away can you be firing a shot
> and not alerting the rest of the enemy?

--
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the
gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise
and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that
nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your
gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks."
--Thomas Jefferson

Have Gun Will Travel
Wire Pali...@uswest.net

In article <37C8F06C...@uswest.net>, pali...@uswest.net says...
> need to slow the bullet down to almost ineffective speed.  The game dose not have
> crossbows or bows, like it should either.
> 

Why does the game need crossbows or bows?  They would serve the same 
function as silenced pistols, but they would be even less effective, slow 
to reload, and short ranged.  Once you got silencers you would never need 
the bow weapons.


BTW, anyone else remember Wages of War?  It came out around the same time 
as JA:DG, and it had bows and such.  Too bad the game really sucked 
though, but JA2 took some of its ideas like a weapons catalogue, 
training, and LMGs.



> Have Gun Will Travel
> Wire Pali...@uswest.net
> 
> 
> 

A good compound bow is good for at least 100 yards and a crossbow is good for 200
yards.  Out ranging any pistol, or SMG, yes they are slow to reload but they are
quiet.  They would have there uses, but with the inaccurate damage model, in the game
they would be of little effect.

Handgun rounds are only marginally effective.  There advantage is that they are easy to
carry around.  A 9mm had about 350 foot pounds of energy, while 308 has 2000 foot
pounds.  There is no substitute for a rifle.  A arrow/bolt also has more energy and
penetration than any handgun round, I would use the bows until they were alerted then
break out the rifles.

Jeremy Lam wrote:

>
> Why does the game need crossbows or bows?  They would serve the same
> function as silenced pistols, but they would be even less effective, slow
> to reload, and short ranged.  Once you got silencers you would never need
> the bow weapons.
>
> BTW, anyone else remember Wages of War?  It came out around the same time
> as JA:DG, and it had bows and such.  Too bad the game really sucked
> though, but JA2 took some of its ideas like a weapons catalogue,
> training, and LMGs.
>
> > Have Gun Will Travel
> > Wire Pali...@uswest.net
> >
> >
> >

--
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun.
While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and
independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are
too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be
your constant companion of your walks."
--Thomas Jefferson

Have Gun Will Travel
Wire Pali...@uswest.net

Lord Mark pali...@uswest.net wrote:
>The loud "crack" you hear would be the sonic boom of the bullet breaking the sound
>barrier.  While is is not as loud as the weapon it is loud enough, I  still need
>hearing protection to prevent damage if you are inspecting the targets, down
>range, if the range has a bunker set up.
>
>5.56mm N 7.62mm N 7.62mm X 39 and 5.45mm WP all exceed the speed of sound @ 1080
>FPS at sea level.  Most pistol rounds do also, so the silencer would have a speed
>reducer, to slow the bullet down.  This would in lower the effectiviness of the
>weapon.  .45 is ideal for silenced weapons because it never exceeds the speed of
>sound.  The game dose not however incorporate this.  To silence a rifle you would
>need to slow the bullet down to almost ineffective speed.  The game dose not have
>crossbows or bows, like it should either.

It has throwing knives and combat knives. If you want to go stealthy
don't bother with silencers (unless maybe you have a MAC-10), just
sneak up and knife em. 

As long as the enemy either KOs or dies in the same turn he can't
report your position. You'll see him go for the radio if he does. In
addition to that if he yells out it's likely someone near him heard
the sound.

All in all, going 100% stealthy is next to impossible unless you
have a heck of a lot of patience, good planning, camoflage, and
possibly an hour or two :) I've been able to knife out an enemy
patrol of 6 very very slowly.

-- 
Thamer Al-Herbish                          <URL http://www.whitefang.com/>
[ The Secure UNIX Programming FAQ <URL http://www.whitefang.com/sup/ >   ]

Lord Mark <pali...@uswest.net> writes:
: A good compound bow is good for at least 100 yards

Bowhunters usually use at least "good" compound bows, and the ones who
take home deer probably didn't shoot at anything further away than 50
yards.  I don't deny that the bow could fire a shot that could kill
someone at that longer range; longbows at Agincourt were killing armored
men at longer ranges, but you don't *aim* at someone that far away.  

On Sun, 29 Aug 1999 20:09:26 -0700, Lord Mark <pali...@uswest.net>
wrote:

>A good compound bow is good for at least 100 yards and a crossbow is good for 200
>yards.  Out ranging any pistol, or SMG, yes they are slow to reload but they are
>quiet.  They would have there uses, but with the inaccurate damage model, in the game
>they would be of little effect.
>
>Handgun rounds are only marginally effective.  There advantage is that they are easy to
>carry around.  A 9mm had about 350 foot pounds of energy, while 308 has 2000 foot
>pounds.  There is no substitute for a rifle.  A arrow/bolt also has more energy and
>penetration than any handgun round, I would use the bows until they were alerted then
>break out the rifles.

It's been awhile since I pulled a bow, but accuracy with a bow takes a
lot of practice.  A bow also is seriously difficult to shoot while
running and I think it may be a tad difficult to shoot while lying
prone.  A crossbow on the other hand, is a different story.  Crossbows
in the game may have been viable in the game but I can already imagine
that after knocking off a sentry his partner steps around the corner
and he gets 5 free turns to use you for target practice before you get
your crossbow winded up and ready to shoot again...8-).

Given the number of slots that you have available, I don't know if I'd
really like to carry around a weapon and ammo, that has a one-shot
effectiveness instead of carrying other weapons and ammo that I can
still use in an actual firefight.  But, in the interests of making the
game more flexible, crossbows and maybe bows may have been an
interesting addition to the game.

Jeremy Lam wrote:

> Why does the game need crossbows or bows?  They would serve the same
> function as silenced pistols, but they would be even less effective, slow
> to reload, and short ranged.  Once you got silencers you would never need
> the bow weapons.

They would be nice for a bit of variety (not that the game needs any..phew! ), and
would enable sad people like me to fulfil their unhealthy Rambo fantasies.
;-P

Old Wolf
------------

How about a bow/crossbow with an explosive arrowhead/bolt? (Yes, I was a
Rambo fan....)   ;)

John Smith <jsm...@fgm.upu.edu> wrote in message
news:4WmN3.295$_m2.1479@news...
>
> How about a bow/crossbow with an explosive arrowhead/bolt? (Yes, I was a
> Rambo fan....)   ;)

Just a normal crossbow would be a great stealth weapon!

Selby Dyer <renata.NO...@zg.tel.hr> writes:


: Just a normal crossbow would be a great stealth weapon!

No, it wouldn't, because you're very unlikely to get an instant kill.  You're
going to put your target on the ground, he's going to be very wounded, and
probably going to be screaming his head off.  Not stealthy.

Bill Seurer BillS...@vnet.ibm.com wrote:

>Any new kinds of weapons should add something missing in the game.  What
>would a crossbow add that a silenced pistol or SMG doesn't already
>provide?

Consider the dart guns. Love to have a crossbow-dart-weapon type of
thing.  Only it has a much higher chance of outright downing the
opponent (lethal injection arrows?)

Anyway the "ninja" factor makes it cool.

>Machetes are a waste of space in the current game.  Yes, they do a bit
>more damage but given their weight and size does anyone really ever use
>them were a normal knife wouldn't do?  I've played 3 times and am on a
>4th and I've never used one.

Well have you been able to down the opponent with one knife hit?
It's not very easy. I think if you surprise them from the back it
works more often.

I used to use knives (not machetes) to sneak up and cut down an
opponent. Worked great with a knifing skilled custom merc.

-- 
Thamer Al-Herbish                      <URL http://www.whitefang.com/>
I'm working on "Buccaneer Heroes"
Hardy! Har Har! Matey.             <URL: http://www.whitefang.com/bh/>

Bill Seurer wrote:
> 
> X-no-archive: yes
> 
> Brian Trosko wrote:
> > Selby Dyer <renata.NO...@zg.tel.hr> writes:
> >
> > : Just a normal crossbow would be a great stealth weapon!
> >
> > No, it wouldn't, because you're very unlikely to get an instant kill.  You're
> > going to put your target on the ground, he's going to be very wounded, and
> > probably going to be screaming his head off.  Not stealthy.
> 
> Any new kinds of weapons should add something missing in the game.  What
> would a crossbow add that a silenced pistol or SMG doesn't already
> provide?


Recoverable ammo?

When fired at empty space distract attention without alarming? (Anyone
tried thrown rocks for this?)

Fire-arrows?

Up and over fire to get snipers on roofs/behind walls?

Kill diedranna via arrow in eye...see the tapestry in JA3 :-)


> 
> Machetes are a waste of space in the current game.  Yes, they do a bit
> more damage but given their weight and size does anyone really ever use
> them were a normal knife wouldn't do?  I've played 3 times and am on a
> 4th and I've never used one.
> --
> 
> Bill Seurer           Compiler Development             IBM Rochester, MN
> Bill_Seurer AT us.ibm.com                             Bill AT seurer.net
> http://www.seurer.net/             (replace " AT " with "@" to email me)

-- 
Remove some of the address if you wish to reply.
This is the identity that I use for NewsGroups. Modified
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Bill Seurer <BillS...@vnet.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:38147136.98C89A3D@vnet.ibm.com...
> X-no-archive: yes
>
> > Kill diedranna via arrow in eye...see the tapestry in JA3 :-)
>
> ???

I think this is a reference to the Bayeux Tapestry, which depicts (amongst
other things) the battle of Hastings where King Harold got an arrow in the
eye.


Selby

Bill Seurer wrote:
> 
> X-no-archive: yes
> 
> "Thurstan R. McDougle" wrote:
> > Recoverable ammo?
> 
> Like throwing knives.

But with better range (in theory)

> 
> > When fired at empty space distract attention without alarming? (Anyone
> > tried thrown rocks for this?)
> 
> That's what rocks are for.  Toss one and a guy will turn to look. Then
> chuck a knife into his back.
> 
> > Fire-arrows?
> 
> Fire might be interesting but would get out of hand too easily.
> 
> > Up and over fire to get snipers on roofs/behind walls?
> 
> Arrows don't work that way.

Direct aimed arrows- the way they are used today with modern very
powerful bows do not get used this way.
Traditional Agincourt/Robin Hood bows could be used that way, if rarely
done in movies (this is a use common to armys, but movies normally
cannot afford sufficient men to show army combat properly-they tend to
show a close up view of a small part of the melee instead).
You might need several shots before you hit as this method is less
accurate (both distance and line not just line need to be spot on to
hit), this may be one of the reasons muskets caught on so quickly, as in
the start they had a much slower firing rate and where much more
expensive to produce (and run out of ammo!).

Tradition firing arc:-
          -------
        /         \
     /              \
   /                  \
  /                    \
}/    @@@@@            @@@@@
	|                |
  Your infantry       Their infantry (or other troops)

Modern Style
             ------------
}------------            ------------|
                                  Target

> 
> > Kill diedranna via arrow in eye...see the tapestry in JA3 :-)
> 
> ???
> --
> 
> Bill Seurer           Compiler Development             IBM Rochester, MN
> Bill_Seurer AT us.ibm.com                             Bill AT seurer.net
> http://www.seurer.net/             (replace " AT " with "@" to email me)

-- 
Remove some of the address if you wish to reply.
This is the identity that I use for NewsGroups. Modified
as some /people/ @hotmail.com have been spamming me.

On Sunday, August 29, 1999 8:00:00 AM UTC+1, Erland Andreassen wrote:
> One thing I love with JA2 is the ability to snipe the enemy. However, since
> most bigger weapons makes a loud crack when fired it draws attention. Is there
> only silencers for smg's and pistols? How far away can you be firing a shot
> and not alerting the rest of the enemy?

I live in Namibia and it is more and more common yo use silenced rifles with standard (Hi-Vel) ammo. A 30-06 fired from 25m sounds like spech at 1m. Games gets spooked 40m or less, but will stand still at more than 100m and more shots can be fired. I have pioneered rifle silencers since 1982 and I am publishing a book on practical use of them soon. Some guys do not underst