🚀 go-pugleaf

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 02:11:13 GMT, "DocScorpio"
<DocScorpio@strupra-spammeros.com> wrote:

>Might want to give this one a try (if you've got a hi-speed connection and 
>919 megs free).  Demo installed and ran w/o a hitch at 12x10 on my P4 3.4 
>6800GT.  Only played a training mission, so I can't say much about it.  Very 
>pretty tho' and with a killer intro cutscene.  Is this going to be the new 
>"open-ended" space-sim?  Anybody know when the full version is going to hit 
>the street? 

What's the flight model like?

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 19:23:42 GMT, Memnoch
<memnoch@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 02:11:13 GMT, "DocScorpio"
><DocScorpio@strupra-spammeros.com> wrote:
>
>>Might want to give this one a try (if you've got a hi-speed connection and 
>>919 megs free).  Demo installed and ran w/o a hitch at 12x10 on my P4 3.4 
>>6800GT.  Only played a training mission, so I can't say much about it.  Very 
>>pretty tho' and with a killer intro cutscene.  Is this going to be the new 
>>"open-ended" space-sim?  Anybody know when the full version is going to hit 
>>the street? 
>
>What's the flight model like?

Theres a thread over at AFE about this game as well. Doesn't seem to
be anything but a Freelancer clone, with high-end requirements. 950
meg download for a 2 hour limit demo. =P

"Shingen" <shingen@aolsuks.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message 
news:s15oa2ttn8h25t3r3bb146mjkcf3d89io7@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 19:23:42 GMT, Memnoch
> <memnoch@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 02:11:13 GMT, "DocScorpio"
>><DocScorpio@strupra-spammeros.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Might want to give this one a try (if you've got a hi-speed connection 
>>>and
>>>919 megs free).  Demo installed and ran w/o a hitch at 12x10 on my P4 3.4
>>>6800GT.  Only played a training mission, so I can't say much about it. 
>>>Very
>>>pretty tho' and with a killer intro cutscene.  Is this going to be the 
>>>new
>>>"open-ended" space-sim?  Anybody know when the full version is going to 
>>>hit
>>>the street?
>>
>>What's the flight model like?
>
> Theres a thread over at AFE about this game as well. Doesn't seem to
> be anything but a Freelancer clone, with high-end requirements. 950
> meg download for a 2 hour limit demo. =P

Essentially, the same flight-model as FL.  I'm using mouse/KB controls (too 
lazy to reach behind the FPD for my stick).  Default controls are simple 
and, while not genre standard, are, IMO, intuitive.....at least for me.  I 
like the WASD-layout for AB, braking, strafing, and the mouse for direction, 
speed, and weapons.

I thought the demo didn't have a time-limit.  Don't know tho' because I've 
only completed 4-5 missions.  I'm at the point where I've got to make some 
money before I can buy a better drive so I can go on to the next 
story-mission.

I've seen no option for planet landings or anything like that yet.  You dock 
with stations, as in most other space-sims these days.

In terms of graphics, the game is gorgeous.  The CGI cutscenes are some of 
the best I've ever seen (probably account for a good portion of 919 
megs).....right up there with the intro cutscene for WH40K: DOW.  Tho' they 
have nothing to do with actual game-play, they obviously were included to 
help sell the game to graphic whores, such as myself. :)

In fact, the game is just a tad too pretty for my taste (maybe I need to 
adjust the FPD :) ).  There's not a lot out there (read:  "nothing") in the 
space genre....so I'll probably be getting it.

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 21:09:32 GMT, "DocScorpio"
<DocScorpio@strupra-spammeros.com> wrote:

>
>I thought the demo didn't have a time-limit.  Don't know tho' because I've 
>only completed 4-5 missions.  I'm at the point where I've got to make some 
>money before I can buy a better drive so I can go on to the next 
>story-mission.
>

So what, is it a game on rails or is there any freeform mode? What's
the trade model like? I'm also wondering if it's a 900 meg download,
what's the install amount it takes? 

I read somewhere about the 2 hour limit, I think it was the official
site, but I might be wrong. If there is no time limit, I might try to
grab it, but if there is, it would take longer to download it then the
2 hour game limit.

"Shingen" <shingen@aolsuks.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message 
news:k9coa29b1r83q9u47f2anf42cei8ifeksm@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 21:09:32 GMT, "DocScorpio"
> <DocScorpio@strupra-spammeros.com> wrote:
>
[snip]
>
> So what, is it a game on rails or is there any freeform mode? What's
> the trade model like? I'm also wondering if it's a 900 meg download,
> what's the install amount it takes?
>
> I read somewhere about the 2 hour limit, I think it was the official
> site, but I might be wrong. If there is no time limit, I might try to
> grab it, but if there is, it would take longer to download it then the
> 2 hour game limit.

AFAICT, it has a story-line, which I assume is on rails, but from which you 
can step out of when you want to go freeform.  I don't know if you can avoid 
the story-line at start-up and just go pure freeform.  It has all the usual 
stuff, trading, buy new equip and weapons, bulletin-board missions (cargo, 
escort, bounty, etc.  Looks like more variety than FL....which had none).

The demo limits you to two regions of space, each containing several solar 
systems.  There's no actual time-limit.  The readme says it'll take you 1 
1/2 hours to explore the demo, but I don't think it shuts down after that. 
I suspect that's how long it takes to play the story-line missions in the 
demo.  The relevant info from the readme is quoted at the end of  the post.

As a rough analogy, I'd say that DS1 is to FL what Darkstone was to Diablo. 
Even the name conjurs up Darkstone. :)  Could be wrong, however.  This is 
just my first take on it.

Can't say anything about the trade model, tho' I think I saw a note in 
Octopus Overlords that it was "somewhat dynamic" (or words to that 
effect).....whatever that means.

I dled the demo from Filefront and it took me an hour and change (at c. 
190).  Installed, the game folder shows 980 megs.  Here's the readme info:

"Welcome to the Darkstar One Universe!

This demo offers you the opportunity to enjoy an extensive introduction to 
Darkstar One.

Assume the role of Kayron Jarvis, a young pilot, explore the universe and 
attempt to unravel a mysterious conspiracy.

In this demo you will have access to two clusters (groups of solar systems). 
You may explore the solar systems within these clusters with relative 
freedom. It is your choice how you act, whether as a pirate, a bounty 
hunter, a trader, or your own combination of the careers on offer. However, 
bear in mind that your actions will have consequences...

Exploring the entire demo content provides approximately one and a half 
hours of gameplay. There is no time limit, allowing you more scope for 
discovering additional features and hunting down ships."

"DocScorpio" <DocScorpio@strupra-spammeros.com> wrote in message 
news:BlXqg.4149$M%2.3366@trnddc02...
>
> "Shingen" <shingen@aolsuks.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message 
> news:k9coa29b1r83q9u47f2anf42cei8ifeksm@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 21:09:32 GMT, "DocScorpio"
>> <DocScorpio@strupra-spammeros.com> wrote:
>>
> [snip]
>>
>> So what, is it a game on rails or is there any freeform mode? What's
>> the trade model like? I'm also wondering if it's a 900 meg download,
>> what's the install amount it takes?
>>
>> I read somewhere about the 2 hour limit, I think it was the official
>> site, but I might be wrong. If there is no time limit, I might try to
>> grab it, but if there is, it would take longer to download it then the
>> 2 hour game limit.
>
> AFAICT, it has a story-line, which I assume is on rails, but from which 
> you can step out of when you want to go freeform.  I don't know if you can 
> avoid the story-line at start-up and just go pure freeform.  It has all 
> the usual stuff, trading, buy new equip and weapons, bulletin-board 
> missions (cargo, escort, bounty, etc.  Looks like more variety than 
> FL....which had none).
>
> The demo limits you to two regions of space, each containing several solar 
> systems.  There's no actual time-limit.  The readme says it'll take you 1 
> 1/2 hours to explore the demo, but I don't think it shuts down after that. 
> I suspect that's how long it takes to play the story-line missions in the 
> demo.  The relevant info from the readme is quoted at the end of  the 
> post.
>
> As a rough analogy, I'd say that DS1 is to FL what Darkstone was to 
> Diablo. Even the name conjurs up Darkstone. :)  Could be wrong, however. 
> This is just my first take on it.
>
> Can't say anything about the trade model, tho' I think I saw a note in 
> Octopus Overlords that it was "somewhat dynamic" (or words to that 
> effect).....whatever that means.
>
> I dled the demo from Filefront and it took me an hour and change (at c. 
> 190).  Installed, the game folder shows 980 megs.  Here's the readme info:
>
> "Welcome to the Darkstar One Universe!
>
> This demo offers you the opportunity to enjoy an extensive introduction to 
> Darkstar One.
>
> Assume the role of Kayron Jarvis, a young pilot, explore the universe and 
> attempt to unravel a mysterious conspiracy.
>
> In this demo you will have access to two clusters (groups of solar 
> systems). You may explore the solar systems within these clusters with 
> relative freedom. It is your choice how you act, whether as a pirate, a 
> bounty hunter, a trader, or your own combination of the careers on offer. 
> However, bear in mind that your actions will have consequences...
>
> Exploring the entire demo content provides approximately one and a half 
> hours of gameplay. There is no time limit, allowing you more scope for 
> discovering additional features and hunting down ships."
>
>
BIT OF AN ADDENDUM

Oh yeah, the player has only one ship.....the Darkstar One. :(  You "evolve" 
the ship, using "artifacts" that you find throughout the game universe. 
Something on the order of X:BTF, I guess.  For me, this is a negative.  I 
want to be able to buy different ship and be able to own several ships that 
I can switch between.  The era of the "one-ship" game is something from the 
far past.

However, from an RPG-perspective, I guess the ship is your character and you 
develop it as such.  That may be why the developers went this way (sound 
like a fanboy now.  "It's really a feature").  I've obtained my first 
artifact and it gives me the choice to develop the ship first in three 
different areas:  wings (for additional weapons), engines,......and 
something else which I forget.

Within each of these categories, it gives you more choices.  I took wings, 
so it gave me a plasma weapon choice which I can implement in three 
different ways (attack weapon, shield, or recharger for main weapon, IIRC). 

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 22:49:05 GMT, "DocScorpio"
<DocScorpio@strupra-spammeros.com> wrote:

>
>As a rough analogy, I'd say that DS1 is to FL what Darkstone was to Diablo. 
>Even the name conjurs up Darkstone. :)  Could be wrong, however.  This is 
>just my first take on it.
>
>Can't say anything about the trade model, tho' I think I saw a note in 
>Octopus Overlords that it was "somewhat dynamic" (or words to that 
>effect).....whatever that means.
>
>I dled the demo from Filefront and it took me an hour and change (at c. 
>190).  Installed, the game folder shows 980 megs.
>
hmm ok thanks. I'll prolly check it out then. WTF, there aren't many
new space-sims to choose from this year. 

Did u ever get the full version of Evochron?

"Shingen" <shingen@aolsuks.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message 
news:3hioa214rv5g2qt9a5oeek4rupghuuirlu@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 22:49:05 GMT, "DocScorpio"
> <DocScorpio@strupra-spammeros.com> wrote:
>
[snip]
> hmm ok thanks. I'll prolly check it out then. WTF, there aren't many
> new space-sims to choose from this year.
>
> Did u ever get the full version of Evochron?

You know, I was going to buy it......but then I got sucked into EVE (kind of 
like a black hole; no gaming time can escape from it).

We're lucky to get one space-sim a year....and they're by no means A-list 
titles.

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 00:45:00 GMT, "DocScorpio"
<DocScorpio@strupra-spammeros.com> wrote:

>
>You know, I was going to buy it......but then I got sucked into EVE (kind of 
>like a black hole; no gaming time can escape from it).
>
>We're lucky to get one space-sim a year....and they're by no means A-list 
>titles.
>

Bah! I tried that 14 day Eve trial, but never made it past 3-4 hours
before I uniinstalled it. If there would have been a singleplayer
component to that game, I might've kept with it, but I loath Massive
MP games like that. I game as recreation, not for a full-time
life-style.

Plus the forced 3rd person flight model was all "point and click" but
I didn't stay with it long enough to figure if there was a 1st person
"cockpit" view. However, the universe seemed interesting, but not
enough to warrant any pay-2-play gaming.

"Shingen" <shingen@aolsuks.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message 
news:kjooa211d2h3onltijdiqdr5lvubvfkgqs@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 00:45:00 GMT, "DocScorpio"
> <DocScorpio@strupra-spammeros.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>You know, I was going to buy it......but then I got sucked into EVE (kind 
>>of
>>like a black hole; no gaming time can escape from it).
>>
>>We're lucky to get one space-sim a year....and they're by no means A-list
>>titles.
>>
>
> Bah! I tried that 14 day Eve trial, but never made it past 3-4 hours
> before I uniinstalled it. If there would have been a singleplayer
> component to that game, I might've kept with it, but I loath Massive
> MP games like that. I game as recreation, not for a full-time
> life-style.
>
> Plus the forced 3rd person flight model was all "point and click" but
> I didn't stay with it long enough to figure if there was a 1st person
> "cockpit" view. However, the universe seemed interesting, but not
> enough to warrant any pay-2-play gaming.

I'm going to give it a try for a while.  Tho' I'm playing it as a SP game 
atm (npc mission-running and storylines), I like the overall complexity of 
the total game. 

On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 02:11:13 GMT, "DocScorpio"
<DocScorpio@strupra-spammeros.com> wrote:

>Might want to give this one a try (if you've got a hi-speed connection and 
>919 megs free).  Demo installed and ran w/o a hitch at 12x10 on my P4 3.4 
>6800GT.  Only played a training mission, so I can't say much about it.  Very 
>pretty tho' and with a killer intro cutscene.  Is this going to be the new 
>"open-ended" space-sim?  Anybody know when the full version is going to hit 
>the street? 
>
Tried that demo. Seems to be the usual Freelancer remake, even the
characters look almost exactly to Freelancer. It looks like they were
modeled by the same artists even.

Anyway, the game was rather sluggish on my kit, but it was quite
pretty visually. The story seemed to be more rehash of the
freelancer/X2 plot. Ugh! Can't any of these game writers think of more
original storylines?

didn't get much more into the game then that as the framerates were
pretty low, so I'll pass on this one till my next PC gets built. I
think I'm going with a AMD64 this time. I'm bored with Celerons. They
suck at gaming. =P

"Shingen" <shingen@aolsuks.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message 
news:8o8qa2liqss31ds3sjb9bu1tbm7s4kbo4p@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 02:11:13 GMT, "DocScorpio"
> <DocScorpio@strupra-spammeros.com> wrote:
>
[snip]
> Tried that demo. Seems to be the usual Freelancer remake, even the
> characters look almost exactly to Freelancer. It looks like they were
> modeled by the same artists even.
>
> Anyway, the game was rather sluggish on my kit, but it was quite
> pretty visually. The story seemed to be more rehash of the
> freelancer/X2 plot. Ugh! Can't any of these game writers think of more
> original storylines?
>
> didn't get much more into the game then that as the framerates were
> pretty low, so I'll pass on this one till my next PC gets built. I
> think I'm going with a AMD64 this time. I'm bored with Celerons. They
> suck at gaming. =P

I've backed off to 10x7 (the install default), as it was a little too choppy 
at 12x10.  (I think it actually looks better at the lower res.)  The res 
choices go up to 2560x1600!  I mean who's got a rig that could run this 
thing at that res.  This thing takes more resources than Oblivion....which I 
run comfortably at 12x10.

I agree about the FL similarities and the plot.......well, there seems to be 
about one space-sim plot-line these days (and maybe two for all games).  The 
plot I can ignore (hopefully, the game continues after you finish it).  What 
bothers me most is that you only have one ship.  Not one ship at a time as 
in FL (which was bad enough), but one ship.....period.  This is a totally 
weird game-design decision.  Having many ships, even one at a time, is not a 
novel concept.  It's been around since Elite.  X2/X3 represents where 
space-sim designers should be when it comes to the ship issue.

I'm deep into the demo now.  No surprises and no major complaints.  Combat 
seems easy, but maybe I haven't gotten to the toughies yet.  I find the 
artifact business to be kind of hokey.  I've found two so far and both were 
located inside of asteroids.....down identical mini-Descent-like tunnels. 
Seems kind of arcadish.....you fly down a tunnel into a big open area where 
all this mechanical or construction activity is taking place and there's the 
artifact (big green jewel-like structure on the wall) in plain sight.  You 
approach and your ship just seems to suck it up.  Strange.

Don't mean to be so negative.  It's really early days with this one.  I 
think I've become completely jaded by pc gaming, as I seem to complain about 
everything these days.

 

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 17:27:55 GMT, "DocScorpio"
<DocScorpio@strupra-spammeros.com> wrote:


>
>Don't mean to be so negative.  It's really early days with this one.  I 
>think I've become completely jaded by pc gaming, as I seem to complain about 
>everything these days.
>

Well there is alot to complain about given the prices of games and the
upgrades needed to play them. Hell now a days, you need a DVD-Rom just
to install the damn things.

People will disagree (but most haven't spent anytime playing them),
but the BC games STILL tend to be the best open-ended space-sims to
date, even with all the bugs. 

In 5 years, I doubt there will be any new PC space-sim games, if Elite
4 never comes.

"Shingen" <shingen@aolsuks.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message 
news:iejqa2ptcg7vmtgbv8c5ukh5qkcgm3cfe0@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 17:27:55 GMT, "DocScorpio"
> <DocScorpio@strupra-spammeros.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Don't mean to be so negative.  It's really early days with this one.  I
>>think I've become completely jaded by pc gaming, as I seem to complain 
>>about
>>everything these days.
>>
>
> Well there is alot to complain about given the prices of games and the
> upgrades needed to play them. Hell now a days, you need a DVD-Rom just
> to install the damn things.
>
> People will disagree (but most haven't spent anytime playing them),
> but the BC games STILL tend to be the best open-ended space-sims to
> date, even with all the bugs.
>
> In 5 years, I doubt there will be any new PC space-sim games, if Elite
> 4 never comes.

A-list developers/publishers don't do space sims anymore.  It'll take some 
major resurgence in interest among the general public, like a block-buster 
major sci-fi flick (like the first "Star Wars") to maybe fire things up 
again.  I don't think the Star Wars or Star Trek franchises are going to do 
it because both are really, IMO, stale.  They've been done to death in 
games.  Sure, both have a solid geek base.....but the kind of general frenzy 
that attended the first Star Wars flick, which gave rise to the Star Trek 
flicks and a bazillion rip-offs and games.....nah.

As for DS1, I've gone beyond the end of the demo story-line.  There's some 
things I haven't quite figured out yet.  I did a side mission where I had to 
help blow up some pirate freighters and their escorts to get a key to a 
secret solar system.  Well, the combat was strange.  Even tho' my shields 
never dropped to critical levels, I was taking damage to my nose section 
(finished the mission with only 2% left on the nose).  Maybe the shields 
only protect against energy weapons or something.

One other thing that's odd.  My ship is automatically repaired when I return 
to a trade station.....and it's free, as far as I can tell.  This seems a 
bit odd in a mercenary-type game.  Why isn't combat expense a factor?  I 
also don't see any option for buying ammo and missiles.  Just bought another 
gun and a launcher so maybe I'll find out how this works in the next 
mission.

"DocScorpio" <DocScorpio@strupra-spammeros.com> wrote in message 
news:6qfrg.20065$0G2.17094@trnddc07...
>
> "Shingen" <shingen@aolsuks.sbcglobal.net> wrote in message 
> news:iejqa2ptcg7vmtgbv8c5ukh5qkcgm3cfe0@4ax.com...
>>
>> In 5 years, I doubt there will be any new PC space-sim games, if Elite
>> 4 never comes.
>
> A-list developers/publishers don't do space sims anymore.  It'll take some 
> major resurgence in interest among the general public, like a block-buster 
> major sci-fi flick (like the first "Star Wars") to maybe fire things up 
> again.  I don't think the Star Wars or Star Trek franchises are going to 
> do it because both are really, IMO, stale.
.
Agreed, I didn't even bother with the most recent Star Wars, there is only 
so much Jar-Jar Binks I can handle.  But two nights ago I watched the DVD 
Serenity and even though I never saw Firefly (wish I had now), the TV series 
it evolved from, I really liked the movie as well as the universe it took 
place in.  If a space-sim came out that did it justice I would snap it up.

>
>  Even tho' my shields never dropped to critical levels, I was taking 
> damage to my nose section (finished the mission with only 2% left on the 
> nose).  Maybe the shields only protect against energy weapons or 
> something.
>
.
Probably, do you have the option to build up your armor levels?

-- 
-Don
Ever had one of those days where you just felt like:
http://cosmoslair.com/BadDay.html ?
(Eating the elephant outside the box, one paradigm at a time)

Shingen <shingen@aolsuks.sbcglobal.net> writes:

> Tried that demo. Seems to be the usual Freelancer remake

Have there been many freelancer remakes then? I found Freelancer
utterly forgettable, so maybe it's no wonder I haven't noticed any
remakes...

> Anyway, the game was rather sluggish on my kit, but it was quite
> pretty visually. The story seemed to be more rehash of the
> freelancer/X2 plot. Ugh! Can't any of these game writers think of more
> original storylines?

Wasn't Freelancer's plot about some kind of aliens taking over humans
or something? Not exactly very original. I've been playing DS1 a while
(German release, released in May already), but so far the plot has
been pretty much a man hunt, running around in daddy's unique ship,
looking for the guy who killed him.

"Anssi Saari" <as@sci.fi> wrote in message 
news:vg3bqs2cr37.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi...
> Shingen <shingen@aolsuks.sbcglobal.net> writes:
>
>> Tried that demo. Seems to be the usual Freelancer remake
>
> Have there been many freelancer remakes then? I found Freelancer
> utterly forgettable, so maybe it's no wonder I haven't noticed any
> remakes...
>
>> Anyway, the game was rather sluggish on my kit, but it was quite
>> pretty visually. The story seemed to be more rehash of the
>> freelancer/X2 plot. Ugh! Can't any of these game writers think of more
>> original storylines?
>
> Wasn't Freelancer's plot about some kind of aliens taking over humans
> or something? Not exactly very original. I've been playing DS1 a while
> (German release, released in May already), but so far the plot has
> been pretty much a man hunt, running around in daddy's unique ship,
> looking for the guy who killed him.

Because of the intro cutscene, I leapt to the perhaps unwarranted assumption 
that DS1 was also about an alien invasion.

I see from the demo in-ship cutscene that the Darkstar One is not really a 
one-man, fighter-sized ship, but something considerably larger.....perhaps 
similar to the ships in Parkan, or a smaller version of the M. Falcon.

Also, I like the new playmate....er, fellow adventurer....you acquire near 
the end of the demo storyline.  Nice to have some company in your ship on 
those long nights (and it's always night in space). :) 

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 22:54:01 GMT, "DocScorpio"
<DocScorpio@strupra-spammeros.com> wrote:

>
>"Anssi Saari" <as@sci.fi> wrote in message 
>news:vg3bqs2cr37.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi...
>> Shingen <shingen@aolsuks.sbcglobal.net> writes:
>>
>>> Tried that demo. Seems to be the usual Freelancer remake
>>
>> Have there been many freelancer remakes then? I found Freelancer
>> utterly forgettable, so maybe it's no wonder I haven't noticed any
>> remakes...
>>
>>> Anyway, the game was rather sluggish on my kit, but it was quite
>>> pretty visually. The story seemed to be more rehash of the
>>> freelancer/X2 plot. Ugh! Can't any of these game writers think of more
>>> original storylines?
>>
>> Wasn't Freelancer's plot about some kind of aliens taking over humans
>> or something? Not exactly very original. I've been playing DS1 a while
>> (German release, released in May already), but so far the plot has
>> been pretty much a man hunt, running around in daddy's unique ship,
>> looking for the guy who killed him.
>
>Because of the intro cutscene, I leapt to the perhaps unwarranted assumption 
>that DS1 was also about an alien invasion.
>
>I see from the demo in-ship cutscene that the Darkstar One is not really a 
>one-man, fighter-sized ship, but something considerably larger.....perhaps 
>similar to the ships in Parkan, or a smaller version of the M. Falcon.
>
>Also, I like the new playmate....er, fellow adventurer....you acquire near 
>the end of the demo storyline.  Nice to have some company in your ship on 
>those long nights (and it's always night in space). :) 

This game is so much like Freelancer.  The way you pick up missions seems
almost identical, including the way they all seem to scale to your 'level'. I
think this may be nothing more than a weeks diversion for me but I'll probably
get it anyway since what else is out there at the moment.

"Memnoch" <memnoch@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> wrote in message 
news:8l7ta25lhobcr9f6g2dnoruc3fa02mdgr3@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 22:54:01 GMT, "DocScorpio"
> <DocScorpio@strupra-spammeros.com> wrote:
>
[snip]
> This game is so much like Freelancer.  The way you pick up missions seems
> almost identical, including the way they all seem to scale to your 
> 'level'. I
> think this may be nothing more than a weeks diversion for me but I'll 
> probably
> get it anyway since what else is out there at the moment.

My major complaint so far is that the solar systems seem....really small, 
very similar, and not particularly interesting compared to FL.  I thought FL 
systems were pretty small, but they seem huge compared with those in DS1. 
Also, the FL systems are visually much more interesting (if not 
astronomically accurate) than those I've seen in DS1 so far.  All the DS1 
systems I've been in have the same planet, trade station, hollow asteroid or 
two, and asteroid field.  You enter on a kill mission, the pirates or 
whatever are right there, you fight them, dock at the trade station and auto 
repair.....then on to the next mission.

I note that the hollow asteroids all have gun turrets in their tunnels.  Are 
there going to be Descent-type missions in the full game where you have to 
fight your way to the artifacts?

Based on the demo, I earlier drew an analogy between DS1 and FL and 
Darkstone and Diablo.  I'm no longer sure that's the case.  So far, DS1 
strikes me as being both less and more than FL......and I'm not sure at this 
point that the "more" makes up for the "less."  I do like Eona, even if the 
info she provides in combat is not particularly useful (I think the sidekick 
in Darkstone was lots better).

 

"DocScorpio" <DocScorpio@strupra-spammeros.com> writes:

> My major complaint so far is that the solar systems seem....really
> small, very similar, and not particularly interesting compared to
> FL. [...] All the DS1 systems I've been in have the same planet,
> trade station, hollow asteroid or two, and asteroid field. You enter
> on a kill mission, the pirates or whatever are right there, you
> fight them, dock at the trade station and auto repair.....then on to
> the next mission.

Maybe these are limitations of the demo? The full game does have
different planets, even a gas giant on occasion. Seems to be just one
planet per system, though. One sun, too. Some planets seem to have
huge structures on the surface which can be seen from space. Sometimes
the asteroids are white and so it's an ice field instead of asteroid
field... Hmm, you can mine the asteroids with some gear I think. I'll
have to try that.

But yes, that doesn't make for much variation. Every system also seems
to have one or more research stations, but those need to be visited
only on some plot missions. You can otherwise land on some of these,
but there's nothing to do.

Most clusters also have one hidden system and one or two systems that
are under siege by pirates. For the hidden systems there's some kind
of sidequest you have to complete and for the besieged, you have to
kill all pirates. Freeing these systems seemed really hard at first,
but once I got enough upgrades for the plasma thing, I can now take
them.

Of course, this kind of systems also have an artifact, which is the
biggest reason to go there. They pay nicely too, so you get a break
from the "ordinary" missions you can pick up any time.

I think they put at least some effort into the ordinary missions too,
there seem to be quite a few different ones, even though many of them
seem to play out the same way every time. Weren't Freelancer missions
all just "go to X and kill everyone"?

> I note that the hollow asteroids all have gun turrets in their tunnels.  Are 
> there going to be Descent-type missions in the full game where you have to 
> fight your way to the artifacts?

Not so far. 

> Based on the demo, I earlier drew an analogy between DS1 and FL and 
> Darkstone and Diablo.  I'm no longer sure that's the case.  So far, DS1 
> strikes me as being both less and more than FL......and I'm not sure at this 
> point that the "more" makes up for the "less."  

It's hard for me to say, I remember very little of Freelancer and I
never played Diablo or Darkstone. I did play Harbinger, which was said
to be Diablo in space.

> I do like Eona, even if the info she provides in combat is not
> particularly useful (I think the sidekick in Darkstone was lots
> better).

Oh yeah, I really wish she'd act like a real co-pilot, like scanning
and classifying the opposition based on their weaponry or coordinating
with other ships... It seems the opposition isn't uniform and it also
seems the AI often puts weaker ships in the lead while the guys with
big guns try to get on your six. Since you can only target what's
closest or under your sights, it's pretty hard to tell which of the
opponents is the most dangerous.

But, in the end, DS1 is an arcade shooter with some plot included, not
a space simulator.

"Anssi Saari" <as@sci.fi> wrote in message 
news:vg33bdccub7.fsf@pepper.modeemi.cs.tut.fi...
> "DocScorpio" <DocScorpio@strupra-spammeros.com> writes:
>
[snip]
>
> Maybe these are limitations of the demo? The full game does have
> different planets, even a gas giant on occasion. Seems to be just one
> planet per system, though. One sun, too. Some planets seem to have
> huge structures on the surface which can be seen from space. Sometimes
> the asteroids are white and so it's an ice field instead of asteroid
> field... Hmm, you can mine the asteroids with some gear I think. I'll
> have to try that.
>
> But yes, that doesn't make for much variation. Every system also seems
> to have one or more research stations, but those need to be visited
> only on some plot missions. You can otherwise land on some of these,
> but there's nothing to do.
>
> Most clusters also have one hidden system and one or two systems that
> are under siege by pirates. For the hidden systems there's some kind
> of sidequest you have to complete and for the besieged, you have to
> kill all pirates. Freeing these systems seemed really hard at first,
> but once I got enough upgrades for the plasma thing, I can now take
> them.

The demo has at least one "hidden system."  I've done the side-mission to 
find it, but haven't tried to free it yet.
>
> Of course, this kind of systems also have an artifact, which is the
> biggest reason to go there. They pay nicely too, so you get a break
> from the "ordinary" missions you can pick up any time.
>
> I think they put at least some effort into the ordinary missions too,
> there seem to be quite a few different ones, even though many of them
> seem to play out the same way every time. Weren't Freelancer missions
> all just "go to X and kill everyone"?

Yes, DS1 has more mission variety than FL.
>
>> I note that the hollow asteroids all have gun turrets in their tunnels. 
>> Are
>> there going to be Descent-type missions in the full game where you have 
>> to
>> fight your way to the artifacts?
>
> Not so far.
>
>> Based on the demo, I earlier drew an analogy between DS1 and FL and
>> Darkstone and Diablo.  I'm no longer sure that's the case.  So far, DS1
>> strikes me as being both less and more than FL......and I'm not sure at 
>> this
>> point that the "more" makes up for the "less."
>
> It's hard for me to say, I remember very little of Freelancer and I
> never played Diablo or Darkstone. I did play Harbinger, which was said
> to be Diablo in space.
>
>> I do like Eona, even if the info she provides in combat is not
>> particularly useful (I think the sidekick in Darkstone was lots
>> better).
>
> Oh yeah, I really wish she'd act like a real co-pilot, like scanning
> and classifying the opposition based on their weaponry or coordinating
> with other ships... It seems the opposition isn't uniform and it also
> seems the AI often puts weaker ships in the lead while the guys with
> big guns try to get on your six. Since you can only target what's
> closest or under your sights, it's pretty hard to tell which of the
> opponents is the most dangerous.
>
> But, in the end, DS1 is an arcade shooter with some plot included, not
> a space simulator.

Thanks for all the info.  One big question:
What kind of copy protection does the full game have?
Recently, German games, such as X3, have tended toward Starforce.  I'm 
wondering if this is the case with DS1. 

"DocScorpio" <DocScorpio@strupra-spammeros.com> writes:

> Thanks for all the info.  One big question:
> What kind of copy protection does the full game have?
> Recently, German games, such as X3, have tended toward Starforce.  I'm 
> wondering if this is the case with DS1. 

Apparently it's "Protectdisc", which seems to be a simple disc
checking thing.

DocScorpio wrote:

> Exploring the entire demo content provides approximately one and a half
> hours of gameplay. There is no time limit, allowing you more scope for
> discovering additional features and hunting down ships."

Is it like a souped-up Project Freedom / Space Interceptor (that got
very boring very quickly)? Also, do the craft auto-level (who's the
idiots?) like in PF/SI?

As for new space sims -- Dark Matter: the Baryon Project is supposed to
be in the works.
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/darkmattertbp/news.html

On 16 Jul 2006 01:17:24 -0700, sweepster@ev1.net wrote:

>DocScorpio wrote:
>
>> Exploring the entire demo content provides approximately one and a half
>> hours of gameplay. There is no time limit, allowing you more scope for
>> discovering additional features and hunting down ships."
>
>Is it like a souped-up Project Freedom / Space Interceptor (that got
>very boring very quickly)? Also, do the craft auto-level (who's the
>idiots?) like in PF/SI?

The mission specific ships seem to level. But the random pirates you meet
don't.

>As for new space sims -- Dark Matter: the Baryon Project is supposed to
>be in the works.
>http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/darkmattertbp/news.html

On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:56:07 -0700, "Don Freeman" <freemand@sonic.net>
wrote:

>But two nights ago I watched the DVD 
>Serenity and even though I never saw Firefly (wish I had now), the TV series 
>it evolved from, I really liked the movie as well as the universe it took 
>place in.  

Agreed, loved the film and wanted more.  A thread in this froup a few
weeks ago slagged it off something awful, something to do with it not
being true to the comics, but hey - I don't read comics.

ISTR the FireFly series is available on DVD.  Hmm, might have to give
Amazon a click ...

Lemming
-- 
Curiosity *may* have killed Schrodinger's cat.

In article <0o70c2p1u77fbeuonphvvii4mt0iom0scn@4ax.com>, Lemming <thiswillbounce@bumblbee.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:56:07 -0700, "Don Freeman" <freemand@sonic.net>
>wrote:
>
>>But two nights ago I watched the DVD 
>>Serenity and even though I never saw Firefly (wish I had now), the TV series 
>>it evolved from, I really liked the movie as well as the universe it took 
>>place in.  
>
>Agreed, loved the film and wanted more.  A thread in this froup a few
>weeks ago slagged it off something awful, something to do with it not
>being true to the comics, but hey - I don't read comics.
>
>ISTR the FireFly series is available on DVD.  Hmm, might have to give
>Amazon a click ...

[Comics?]
Do so.  The series, in general, is better than the movie.  And that 
makes it some of the best TV watching around.  Though it would have 
been better to see the movie last ...

In news:vKbrg.23101$Ap2.12826@trnddc03,
DocScorpio <DocScorpio@strupra-spammeros.com> typed:

> What bothers me most is that you only have one
> ship.  Not one ship at a time as in FL (which was bad enough), but
> one ship.....period.  This is a totally weird game-design decision. Having 
> many ships, even one at a time, is not a novel concept.  It's
> been around since Elite.

ISTR that Elite only allowed you to fly one ship.

That storyline mentioned (flying your ship looking for the ship that killed 
your dad) sounds awfully like the Elite story too.

D.

"Dunny" <paul.dunn4@ntlworld.com> writes:

> That storyline mentioned (flying your ship looking for the ship that killed 
> your dad) sounds awfully like the Elite story too.

There was a story in Elite? As I remember, it was just trade trade
trade until you have all the cool stuff in the ship and then kill kill
kill until you make elite status... Well, there were a couple of extra
missions along the way. I only played Elite on the Commodore 64 about
20 years ago and only made deadly, not elite.

"Dunny" <paul.dunn4@ntlworld.com> wrote in message 
news:mWKyg.8719$oo2.2594@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
> In news:vKbrg.23101$Ap2.12826@trnddc03,
> DocScorpio <DocScorpio@strupra-spammeros.com> typed:
>
>> What bothers me most is that you only have one
>> ship.  Not one ship at a time as in FL (which was bad enough), but
>> one ship.....period.  This is a totally weird game-design decision. 
>> Having many ships, even one at a time, is not a novel concept.  It's
>> been around since Elite.
>
> ISTR that Elite only allowed you to fly one ship.
>
> That storyline mentioned (flying your ship looking for the ship that 
> killed your dad) sounds awfully like the Elite story too.
>
> D.
>
I may be confusing it with FE2. 

In news:CXQyg.768$jt.680@trnddc04,
DocScorpio <DocScorpio@strupra-spammeros.com> typed:

> "Dunny" <paul.dunn4@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:mWKyg.8719$oo2.2594@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...

>> In news:vKbrg.23101$Ap2.12826@trnddc03,
>> DocScorpio <DocScorpio@strupra-spammeros.com> typed:

>>> What bothers me most is that you only have one
>>> ship.  Not one ship at a time as in FL (which was bad enough), but
>>> one ship.....period.  This is a totally weird game-design decision.
>>> Having many ships, even one at a time, is not a novel concept.  It's
>>> been around since Elite.

>> ISTR that Elite only allowed you to fly one ship.
>>
>> That storyline mentioned (flying your ship looking for the ship that
>> killed your dad) sounds awfully like the Elite story too.

> I may be confusing it with FE2.

Ah. Yes, that would account for it :-)

Buyable/Flyable ships first made an appearance in FE:2, and continued in 
FFE. Not that FFE was a patch on FE:2, but some people seem to like it.

Original Elite came with just the one ship, Cobra MkIII, and no chance to 
fly others. There have been hacks to some of the 8bit versions which allowed 
you to buy other ships and I even heard of a version that allowed you to 
utilise wingmen, but I've personally never seen them.

Elite also came with a story - in the form of a novella, "The Dark Wheel", 
of which the Dark Star One story is basically a ripoff. Of course, in the 
days of 64kb of RAM there wasn't much room for a story so you made do with 
the bonus material included in the box :-)

Nowadays they ruin every single space game with either a story-arc, 
jumpgates or crappy flight systems. Freelancer is about as close as I've 
found to the ease-of-flight of the original elite, but it totally cripples 
the gameplay in much the same way as the X-BTF series by forcing the user to 
utilise jumpgates rather than having an onboard hyperspace engine. I've 
always wondered why that was.

D.

On the 29 Jul 2006, Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> wrote:

> "Dunny" <paul.dunn4@ntlworld.com> writes:
> 
>> That storyline mentioned (flying your ship looking for the ship that killed
>> your dad) sounds awfully like the Elite story too.
> 
> There was a story in Elite?

"The Dark Wheel" by Robert Holdstock, a 43 page novella set in the 
Elite universe, was bundled with most of the 8-bit versions of the 
game. You can download a copy from Ian Bell's website.

-- 
Jades' First Encounters Site - http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm
The best Frontier: First Encounters site on the Web.

nospam@jades.org /is/ a real email address!

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 17:27:55 GMT, "DocScorpio"
<DocScorpio@strupra-spammeros.com> wrote:

>Don't mean to be so negative.  It's really early days with this one.  I 
>think I've become completely jaded by pc gaming, as I seem to complain about 
>everything these days.

Tends to happen when everything coming out is shit, you know :)

On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:56:07 -0700, "Don Freeman" <freemand@sonic.net>
wrote:

>> A-list developers/publishers don't do space sims anymore.  

A-list developers don't make anything worth playing at all, and never
did. Start-ups make the revolutionary games, and then get bought out
by "A-List" devlopers (or they evolve into A-List devlopers) at which
point all the creative life is sucked out of them and they start
cranking out tedious formulaic garbage that they think they can pawn
off to 12 year olds and retards.

>>It'll take some  major resurgence in interest among the general public

No, it won't. It's a niche market, as all PC games are a niche market.
It'll take recognition that niche markets can be profitable.

>> like a block-buster  major sci-fi flick (like the first "Star Wars") to maybe
>>fire things up  again.  

Interesting comment, considering the best Fantasy movies of all time
have come out in the middle of the the longest running RPG drought in
electronic gaming history, with no impact on aforemenntioned drought
at all.

Lord of the Rings Trilofy, Harry Potter, etc... did *what* exactly for
the CRPG genre?

Nothing.

>>I don't think the Star Wars or Star Trek franchises are going to 
>> do it because both are really, IMO, stale.

Of course they are stale. Just like the games are stale. And for the
same reasons. Nobody is being creative anymore. 

"Thrasher" <spectre911@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:4nprf2pq17rqeot9bf590pcq8kajjq518e@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:56:07 -0700, "Don Freeman" <freemand@sonic.net>
> wrote:
>
>>> A-list developers/publishers don't do space sims anymore.
>
> A-list developers don't make anything worth playing at all, and never
> did. Start-ups make the revolutionary games, and then get bought out
> by "A-List" devlopers (or they evolve into A-List devlopers) at which
> point all the creative life is sucked out of them and they start
> cranking out tedious formulaic garbage that they think they can pawn
> off to 12 year olds and retards.
>
>>>It'll take some  major resurgence in interest among the general public
>
> No, it won't. It's a niche market, as all PC games are a niche market.
> It'll take recognition that niche markets can be profitable.
>
>>> like a block-buster  major sci-fi flick (like the first "Star Wars") to 
>>> maybe
>>>fire things up  again.
>
> Interesting comment, considering the best Fantasy movies of all time
> have come out in the middle of the the longest running RPG drought in
> electronic gaming history, with no impact on aforemenntioned drought
> at all.
>
> Lord of the Rings Trilofy, Harry Potter, etc... did *what* exactly for
> the CRPG genre?
>
> Nothing.
>
>>>I don't think the Star Wars or Star Trek franchises are going to
>>> do it because both are really, IMO, stale.
>
> Of course they are stale. Just like the games are stale. And for the
> same reasons. Nobody is being creative anymore.
>
Well, I can't really disagree with what you say.  Maybe it's just me and 
age, but very few games do anything for me these days.  Not like back in the 
day, when I bought a couple of games a week.  Seems like things were really 
clicking from say about '92 to '98 or so. 

In news:4nprf2pq17rqeot9bf590pcq8kajjq518e@4ax.com,
Thrasher <spectre911@hotmail.com> typed:

> On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:56:07 -0700, "Don Freeman" <freemand@sonic.net>
> wrote:
>
>>> A-list developers/publishers don't do space sims anymore.
>
> A-list developers don't make anything worth playing at all, and never
> did. Start-ups make the revolutionary games, and then get bought out
> by "A-List" devlopers (or they evolve into A-List devlopers) at which
> point all the creative life is sucked out of them and they start
> cranking out tedious formulaic garbage that they think they can pawn
> off to 12 year olds and retards.

I'd have to disagree with that statement to some degree - there are some 
"A-List" developers producing content that's at least fun to play. I've just 
got hold of Half-Life 2 Ep 1, and it's great fun. No, it's not original 
content and certainly not revolutionary, but still fun if you fancy a 
mindless few hours shooting things. Although not A-List, Looking Glass 
performed some real magic with Thief 1 and 2 (let's not go there for Thief 
3, eh?) and they certainly had some cash behind them.

In the main though, I'd have to say that *most* A-Listers are producing 
shite. The odd one comes out with something good, but they're few and far 
between now. Go back to the high point of my gaming life - 1982 to 1990 and 
most developers were start-ups as the genre was fresh and boundaries were 
being pushed back. Ocean software were, back then, the equivalent of the 
A-List we have now and the certainly produced the goods as far as playable 
and well written games were concerned, as were a number of other major 
software houses (remember when we called them that?). Once it became 
recognised that people would shell out for a game based purely on the name 
behind it, then things went tits-up :(

> Of course they are stale. Just like the games are stale. And for the
> same reasons. Nobody is being creative anymore.

And that is so true.

There have been some good examples of excellent, engaging gameplay - 
Introversion produced Darwinia and Uplink, both excellent, imo. Marc Incitti 
produced the ill-fated GridWars which is so much fun it hurts. The Oolite 
team have reproduced and enhanced Elite marvellously (until Braben gets 
heavy handed again).

However, none of the recent great games have been in the slightest bit 
innovative :(

D.

On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 21:13:08 GMT, Thrasher <spectre911@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:56:07 -0700, "Don Freeman" <freemand@sonic.net>
>wrote:
>
>>> A-list developers/publishers don't do space sims anymore.  
>
>A-list developers don't make anything worth playing at all, and never
>did. Start-ups make the revolutionary games, and then get bought out
>by "A-List" devlopers (or they evolve into A-List devlopers) at which
>point all the creative life is sucked out of them and they start
>cranking out tedious formulaic garbage that they think they can pawn
>off to 12 year olds and retards.

Morons.  Yes, you.  What is this "A-List?" anyway?  

A-List should mean "making games worth playing".  If the "A-List"
developer's game isn't worth playing, then the developer isn't
"A-List" (whatever that means).

D'Oh.

Lemming
-- 
Curiosity *may* have killed Schrodinger's cat.

"Lemming" <thiswillbounce@bumblbee.demon.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:enheg2padi4nm0nvsd7jejaoqkrjfvb3k2@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 21:13:08 GMT, Thrasher <spectre911@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:56:07 -0700, "Don Freeman" <freemand@sonic.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>> A-list developers/publishers don't do space sims anymore.
>>
>>A-list developers don't make anything worth playing at all, and never
>>did. Start-ups make the revolutionary games, and then get bought out
>>by "A-List" devlopers (or they evolve into A-List devlopers) at which
>>point all the creative life is sucked out of them and they start
>>cranking out tedious formulaic garbage that they think they can pawn
>>off to 12 year olds and retards.
>
> Morons.  Yes, you.  What is this "A-List?" anyway?
>

This coming from someone who can't even get their quoting attributions 
correct.

I wrote nothing of what was quoted in your post.

-Don 

"Don Freeman" <freemand@sonic.net> wrote in message 
news:45074c76$0$96177$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>
> "Lemming" <thiswillbounce@bumblbee.demon.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:enheg2padi4nm0nvsd7jejaoqkrjfvb3k2@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 21:13:08 GMT, Thrasher <spectre911@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:56:07 -0700, "Don Freeman" <freemand@sonic.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>> A-list developers/publishers don't do space sims anymore.
>>>
>>>A-list developers don't make anything worth playing at all, and never
>>>did. Start-ups make the revolutionary games, and then get bought out
>>>by "A-List" devlopers (or they evolve into A-List devlopers) at which
>>>point all the creative life is sucked out of them and they start
>>>cranking out tedious formulaic garbage that they think they can pawn
>>>off to 12 year olds and retards.
>>
>> Morons.  Yes, you.  What is this "A-List?" anyway?
>>
>
> This coming from someone who can't even get their quoting attributions 
> correct.
>
> I wrote nothing of what was quoted in your post.

Hi Don,

If you look at the quoting attributions, nothing in Lemmings post was 
attributed to you. It was all attributed to Thrasher. That's okay though. 
I'll forgive you. 

"Bill Huffman" <bhuffma1@san.rr.com> wrote in message 
news:pxKNg.3270$xg7.1849@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>
> "Don Freeman" <freemand@sonic.net> wrote in message 
> news:45074c76$0$96177$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>>
>> "Lemming" <thiswillbounce@bumblbee.demon.co.uk> wrote in message 
>> news:enheg2padi4nm0nvsd7jejaoqkrjfvb3k2@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 21:13:08 GMT, Thrasher <spectre911@hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:56:07 -0700, "Don Freeman" <freemand@sonic.net>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> A-list developers/publishers don't do space sims anymore.
>>>>
>>>>A-list developers don't make anything worth playing at all, and never
>>>>did. Start-ups make the revolutionary games, and then get bought out
>>>>by "A-List" devlopers (or they evolve into A-List devlopers) at which
>>>>point all the creative life is sucked out of them and they start
>>>>cranking out tedious formulaic garbage that they think they can pawn
>>>>off to 12 year olds and retards.
>>>
>>> Morons.  Yes, you.  What is this "A-List?" anyway?
>>>
>>
>> This coming from someone who can't even get their quoting attributions 
>> correct.
>>
>> I wrote nothing of what was quoted in your post.
>
> Hi Don,
>
> If you look at the quoting attributions, nothing in Lemmings post was 
> attributed to you. It was all attributed to Thrasher. That's okay though. 
> I'll forgive you.
>


Look above again and find:

">>>>On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:56:07 -0700, "Don Freeman" <freemand@sonic.net>
>>>>wrote:"

<NIT-PICK>
It's common USENET practice not to copy an attrib if no quote belongs to it. 
Not everyone counts the number of angle brackets to determine which quote 
belongs to which attrib.  It is usually read in a LIFO manner (Last In, 
First Out) so the quote under the "Don Freeman" attrrib looks like it 
belongs to that attrib.
</NIT-PICK>

-- 
-Don
Ever had one of those days where you just felt like:
http://cosmoslair.com/BadDay.html ?
(Eating the elephant outside the box, one paradigm at a time) 

"Don Freeman" <freemand@sonic.net> wrote in message 
news:4508310e$0$96187$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>
> "Bill Huffman" <bhuffma1@san.rr.com> wrote in message 
> news:pxKNg.3270$xg7.1849@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>>
>> "Don Freeman" <freemand@sonic.net> wrote in message 
>> news:45074c76$0$96177$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>>>
>>> "Lemming" <thiswillbounce@bumblbee.demon.co.uk> wrote in message 
>>> news:enheg2padi4nm0nvsd7jejaoqkrjfvb3k2@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 21:13:08 GMT, Thrasher <spectre911@hotmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:56:07 -0700, "Don Freeman" <freemand@sonic.net>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> A-list developers/publishers don't do space sims anymore.
>>>>>
>>>>>A-list developers don't make anything worth playing at all, and never
>>>>>did. Start-ups make the revolutionary games, and then get bought out
>>>>>by "A-List" devlopers (or they evolve into A-List devlopers) at which
>>>>>point all the creative life is sucked out of them and they start
>>>>>cranking out tedious formulaic garbage that they think they can pawn
>>>>>off to 12 year olds and retards.
>>>>
>>>> Morons.  Yes, you.  What is this "A-List?" anyway?
>>>>
>>>
>>> This coming from someone who can't even get their quoting attributions 
>>> correct.
>>>
>>> I wrote nothing of what was quoted in your post.
>>
>> Hi Don,
>>
>> If you look at the quoting attributions, nothing in Lemmings post was 
>> attributed to you. It was all attributed to Thrasher. That's okay though. 
>> I'll forgive you.
>>
>
>
> Look above again and find:
>
> ">>>>On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:56:07 -0700, "Don Freeman" <freemand@sonic.net>
>>>>>wrote:"
>
> <NIT-PICK>
> It's common USENET practice not to copy an attrib if no quote belongs to 
> it. Not everyone counts the number of angle brackets to determine which 
> quote belongs to which attrib.  It is usually read in a LIFO manner (Last 
> In, First Out) so the quote under the "Don Freeman" attrrib looks like it 
> belongs to that attrib.
> </NIT-PICK>
>
> -- 
> -Don
> Ever had one of those days where you just felt like:
> http://cosmoslair.com/BadDay.html ?
> (Eating the elephant outside the box, one paradigm at a time)
>
I think the "A-List" thing was originally mine...but I'm not even sure 'bout 
that now.  After all, it was a while back.
To answer Lemming, I don't equate "A-List publisher" with 
"quality-publisher"....in fact, it's more frequently just the opposite.  The 
"A-List" publishers are the BIG guys, the guys that do the BIG budget games, 
with the BIG roll-out campaigns, who buy favorable reviews and put lots of 
copies on the shelves of lots of major retailers.  IMO, they mostly produce 
crap or mediocre (but flashy) retreads (a lot like commercial TV and most 
films these days), but every now and they manage (despite themselves) to 
publish a gem.  They're like the Empire in Star Wars.  The "little guys," 
the "Rebel Alliance," produce their share of crap too, but also lots games 
that have me saying:  "This is pretty good stuff.  If they'd only had the 
resources and time to do it right."  Well, that's my rant for today. :) 

"Don Freeman" <freemand@sonic.net> wrote in message 
news:4508310e$0$96187$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>
> "Bill Huffman" <bhuffma1@san.rr.com> wrote in message 
> news:pxKNg.3270$xg7.1849@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>>
>> "Don Freeman" <freemand@sonic.net> wrote in message 
>> news:45074c76$0$96177$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>>>
>>> "Lemming" <thiswillbounce@bumblbee.demon.co.uk> wrote in message 
>>> news:enheg2padi4nm0nvsd7jejaoqkrjfvb3k2@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 21:13:08 GMT, Thrasher <spectre911@hotmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:56:07 -0700, "Don Freeman" <freemand@sonic.net>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> A-list developers/publishers don't do space sims anymore.
>>>>>
>>>>>A-list developers don't make anything worth playing at all, and never
>>>>>did. Start-ups make the revolutionary games, and then get bought out
>>>>>by "A-List" devlopers (or they evolve into A-List devlopers) at which
>>>>>point all the creative life is sucked out of them and they start
>>>>>cranking out tedious formulaic garbage that they think they can pawn
>>>>>off to 12 year olds and retards.
>>>>
>>>> Morons.  Yes, you.  What is this "A-List?" anyway?
>>>>
>>>
>>> This coming from someone who can't even get their quoting attributions 
>>> correct.
>>>
>>> I wrote nothing of what was quoted in your post.
>>
>> Hi Don,
>>
>> If you look at the quoting attributions, nothing in Lemmings post was 
>> attributed to you. It was all attributed to Thrasher. That's okay though. 
>> I'll forgive you.
>>
>
>
> Look above again and find:
>
> ">>>>On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:56:07 -0700, "Don Freeman" <freemand@sonic.net>
>>>>>wrote:"
>
> <NIT-PICK>
> It's common USENET practice not to copy an attrib if no quote belongs to 
> it. Not everyone counts the number of angle brackets to determine which 
> quote belongs to which attrib.  It is usually read in a LIFO manner (Last 
> In, First Out) so the quote under the "Don Freeman" attrrib looks like it 
> belongs to that attrib.
> </NIT-PICK>

This is all true and explains why I was so "forgiving". :-)

On the other hand, Lemming probably abused you so ruthlessly on purpose so 
he probably deserves it in return with interest. One must beware those 
little lemmings they can appear so cute and innocent then they drag you over 
the cliff. 

"Bill Huffman" <bhuffma1@san.rr.com> wrote in message 
news:fj6Og.4995$%i.4100@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>
>
> On the other hand, Lemming probably abused you so ruthlessly on purpose so 
> he probably deserves it in return with interest. One must beware those 
> little lemmings they can appear so cute and innocent then they drag you 
> over the cliff.
>
But they make such a satisfying sound when they hit bottom.

-- 
-Don
Ever had one of those days where you just felt like:
http://cosmoslair.com/BadDay.html ?
(Eating the elephant outside the box, one paradigm at a time) 

On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 17:10:30 -0700, "Don Freeman" <freemand@sonic.net>
wrote:

>> On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 21:13:08 GMT, Thrasher <spectre911@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>This coming from someone who can't even get their quoting attributions 
>correct.
>
>I wrote nothing of what was quoted in your post.
>
>-Don 
>

Sorry, I'll try to do better in future.

Lemming
-- 
Curiosity *may* have killed Schrodinger's cat.

On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 10:11:52 +0100, Lemming
<thiswillbounce@bumblbee.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 17:10:30 -0700, "Don Freeman" <freemand@sonic.net>
>wrote:
>
>This coming from someone who can't even get their quoting attributions 
>correct.
>>
>>> wrote nothing of what was quoted in your post.
>>
>>-Don 
>>
>
>Sorry, I'll try to do better in future.
>
I can't believe it's been more than 6 weeks and nobody has picked me
up on this.  I guess the rumour is true.  Usenet is dead.

Lemming
-- 
Curiosity *may* have killed Schrodinger's cat.

Lemming wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 10:11:52 +0100, Lemming
> <thiswillbounce@bumblbee.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 17:10:30 -0700, "Don Freeman" <freemand@sonic.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> This coming from someone who can't even get their quoting attributions 
>> correct.
>>>> wrote nothing of what was quoted in your post.
>>> -Don 
>>>
>> Sorry, I'll try to do better in future.
>>
> I can't believe it's been more than 6 weeks and nobody has picked me
> up on this.  I guess the rumour is true.  Usenet is dead.
> 
> Lemming

UseNet is alive and well, it's just that *you* died and we didn't 
want to bum you out.


-- 
"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the 
blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing 
of misery." - Winston Churchill

On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:25:22 +0000, Lemming wrote:

> On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 10:11:52 +0100, Lemming
> <thiswillbounce@bumblbee.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>>On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 17:10:30 -0700, "Don Freeman" <freemand@sonic.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>This coming from someone who can't even get their quoting attributions 
>>correct.
>>>
>>>> wrote nothing of what was quoted in your post.
>>>
>>>-Don 
>>>
>>
>>Sorry, I'll try to do better in future.
>>
> I can't believe it's been more than 6 weeks and nobody has picked me
> up on this.  

*BING*

> I guess the rumour is true.  Usenet is dead.

Didn't you know?  I'm pretty sure it's in the FAQ.

OTOH, Doctor Who is alive and well, and that mostly makes up for it.  My
wife gave me the Chris Eccleston series for my birthday -- good stuff.

Ob space-sim: [This Space For Rent.  Cheap.]

Bret