🚀 go-pugleaf

On Thu, 21 Feb 2013 03:41:35 -0000, "Trimble Bracegirdle"
<no-spam@never.spam> wrote:

>Ha !!! (he says) Yes I say Ha ! to this new Crysis 'yet-another-one' & its 
>empty Flashy .
>& HA HA to  Aliens: Colonial Marines  the most expensive terribly rubbish
>game ever (maybe)
>& also Sniff n POO ! to FarCry 3 ...You total mess you.
>
>I'm right now playing 1st UNREAL (1998) I clearly remember buying it
>on day of release in The Virgin store on London's Oxford Street.
>Mind you its was years before it could be played in all its glistening glory
>when the Patches & Graphic Drivers had been released.
>This is one of those games I go back to to play a bit more every few months 
>(or years).

Yes and no.  When it was first released, the word on the street was
you needed a monster PC to enjoy it.  I don't remember what graphics
card I had at the time... maybe a 3DFX in a Pentium something?  Anyway
it was very close to top of the line, but those who didn't have the
horse power to play it properly bitched about the game even though it
was perfectly playable from Day 1 with the right hardware.

I do actually remember buying this in the store and having a brief
conversation with the guy at the desk, and he was saying he wasn't
going to get it until he had a PC that was worthy, but a friend of his
had told him that it did indeed live up to its name.

I thought it was a pretty good title at the time but I was more of a
Quake fan with all the multiplayer mods.

>I suppose I don't ever expect to finish it.
>Indeed I suspect that UNREAL may go on forever.
>Where the Beginning might be would be joined to where an Ending might be
>with so many  levels of similar design Linearly connected with a weak Plot
>a player would take so long to get around they couldn't tell where they 
>might be.
>
>I was lost as to where my game saves were pointing to in the endless levels.
>Looked up a Game Guide, quite shook me.
>After all these years I'm only on Level 15 out of a total of 39 Levels.
>Perhaps in fact it really does go on forever.
>But I enjoy it & there are still Multiplayer Servers active.
>
>I've been looking around at what action games are due within a year or so.
>Interesting list "Most Anticipated" here:
>http://www.metacritic.com/feature/video-game-preview-2013
>
>Worries that I find very little I look forward to.Perhaps:
>Bioshock Infinite
>Tomb Raider
>GTA V
>Star Wars 1313
>Raven's Cry
>http://blogs.amd.com/play/2013/01/28/ravens-cry/
>seems to be the only hopefully decent Action RPG type upcoming.
>
>Thief 4 is 2014. Doom 4 is definitely, sometime not soon

Well don't feel alone in that you sometimes wonder if it's the lack of
titles, where the industry is going in general.... or the part I hate
the worst is when you start questioning yourself and wondering if
you've just changed too much, crossed the threshold into oldmanism
that puts you outside the age demographic that can still enjoy games.

Then something like Crysis 3 multiplayer comes along, and reminds me
why I started gaming in the first place, and sends a loud reminder
that I'm getting better at everything with age and its the rest of the
world that's sucking :)  

Seriously though, after the disappointment that FC3 multi was for me,
Crysis 3 multiplayer complete reaffirmed that I'm still here and
fundamentally just as willing to enjoy a good title as they come
out... they just don't come out as much anymore.

C3 multiplayer is an accessible-but-deep and enormously satisfying
action game.  I literally feel sorry for all the folks who don't have
the PC horsepower or the bandwidth or the confidence in their hand-eye
coordination (or reflexes)....any/all of the above to experience this.
They are truly missing out on a major portion of PC gaming.

"Trimble Bracegirdle" <no-spam@never.spam> looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs
say:
<snip>
>I've been looking around at what action games are due within a year or so.
>Interesting list "Most Anticipated" here:
>http://www.metacritic.com/feature/video-game-preview-2013
>
>Worries that I find very little I look forward to.
Well half that list is console only.

>Perhaps:
>Bioshock Infinite
Looks kinda of interesting, very atmospheric anyway.

>Tomb Raider
I have my doubts since it's the same studio that made
Legend/Anniversary/etc - very consolized version of Tomb Raider with
highly contrived levels - they forgot the first law of level design -
make it believable.

>GTA V
I wonder how many online things you'll have to be connected to to even
_install_ this much less play it.
I have yet to play GTA IV due to the forced connections to "social
clubs" and the like that I have less than zero interest in.

>Star Wars 1313
>Raven's Cry
>http://blogs.amd.com/play/2013/01/28/ravens-cry/
>seems to be the only hopefully decent Action RPG type upcoming.
>
>Thief 4 is 2014. Doom 4 is definitely, sometime not soon

I wonder if iD having been bought by Zenimax/Bethesda will result in
DOOM4 not being a "walk down a corridor in the dark" experience?

>I have very big maybes against even that short list.
>I never seem to get far in GTA's  before interest is worn out.
>The no quick save system doesn't help.
>
>I thought the 1st Bioshock unpleasant & made me progressively angry
>at being led on & on with little plot resolution in samey settings.

I still haven't played that.  Bought but have yet to install Bioshock2 -
been looking around for the first one to play first.

>The games industry seems to be increasingly stretching less & less 'new'
>out as far as possible.
>Sequels, Games into Films ...Dues Ex ...Assassins Creed...Splinter Cell

Nothing really new here, they've been doing that since the turn of the
millennia if not before.
The suits took over and only "guaranteed profitable" projects get green
lit these days.   Pity those same bean counters never seem to remember
that those franchises they're milking to death weren't guaranteed when
they started, they were something new that caught the eye of the gaming
public by doing something different.
Add in the "must cater to the widest possible audience on as many
platforms as possible" that goes with the bean counters aims to make as
much money as possible and is it any wonder that damn near all we get
now is dumbed down, consolized sequels on PC?

Hollywood seems to be doing the same - remakes and rehashes and action
films best summarized by that Robot Chicken spoof  "Michael Bay presents
EXPLOSIONS"  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7ssUivM-eM

Oh for the gaming heyday of the 90s.

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of 
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, 
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So 
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr 

On Thu, 21 Feb 2013 07:41:35 +0400, Trimble Bracegirdle <no-spam@never.spam> wrote:

> PC Gaming Dies Again

forget action games. There is Civilization V!
As a veteran of the franchise from the beginning I argue
it is the best incarnation and first when I did not want to return
to Alpha Centauri after few days.

I invested > 800 hours (mind you, I played it in windowed mode so I could do
something else, anyway...) and just forced myself to uninstall it 2 days ago.
And the whole yesterday I struggled with desire to reinstall it :))

-- 
Andrew Rybenkov

On Thu, 21 Feb 2013 03:41:35 -0000, "Trimble Bracegirdle"
<no-spam@never.spam> wrote:


>Worries that I find very little I look forward to.Perhaps:
>Bioshock Infinite
>Tomb Raider
>GTA V
>Star Wars 1313
>Raven's Cry

We have "Watch Dogs"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgRynhNnGTE


and

"Remember Me"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uL84jWdCps



Both of which could be released in 2013. At the moment Watch Dogs is
TBA but Remember Me is supposedly being released this May.

I am looking forward to both of those greatly.

-- 
Rob

In article <op.wsu3j8iiowpbh0@obscureserver>, aryb...@gmail.com 
says...
> 
> On Thu, 21 Feb 2013 07:41:35 +0400, Trimble Bracegirdle <no-spam@never.spam> wrote:
> 
> > PC Gaming Dies Again
> 
> forget action games. There is Civilization V!
> As a veteran of the franchise from the beginning I argue
> it is the best incarnation and first when I did not want to return
> to Alpha Centauri after few days.
> 
> I invested > 800 hours (mind you, I played it in windowed mode so I could do
> something else, anyway...) and just forced myself to uninstall it 2 days ago.
> And the whole yesterday I struggled with desire to reinstall it :))


I get no joy out of action games, fps games either. When I see a games 
review for a new title, or a 'specials' mailout from my games store, I 
move on the moment I see it's FPS, or AOE-stype RTS. 
Just.Not.Interested.

Amalur is a nice entrance in the RPG world. I actually enjoy it a heck 
of a lot more than Skyrim, say. I guess it's a thing of personal taste, 
because I sure could not really lay my finger on just why this is so.

Civ5 is ok, particularly with some of the mods out there, but as far as 
the joy of discovering a huge world and embarking on grand and risky 
strategic (ad)ventures goes, the Fall from Heaven mod for BTS is still 
the most enthralling in my perception.

In the 4x offerings I've played Stardock's Fallen Enchantress a fair bit 
lately, but ultimately I am somewhat disappointed. Things could be quite 
exciting with the 'wildlands' concept, but a) it takes way too long to 
get armies built up that have a mere smidgen of survival in there and b) 
those areas are bug-ridden, and I don't mean the monsters populating 
them. To the point where I have tried playing the game with wildlands 
disabled 'cause they're such a source of frustration, but then the game 
is even shallower. Last patch they slowed it down even further by making 
the ability to build settler units dependent on population cost. Not an 
enhancement as I see it. I think I prefer Twilight of the Arnor over 
this.

The one game I am looking forward to is Wasteland 2. Squad based 
tactical rpg adventure, hopefully at its best. InExile recently put a 
trailer/preview up - I see it's shifted to youtube because vimeo was 
being precious about something and took it down. IIRC the target was to 
have it out by October '13, but I may be mis-remembering.

-P.

Andrew "..forget action games..."

You're right. I expect to much from the Action/RPG releases.
Must try Strategy & adventure.
I have Sims II in my 'Bargain brought, still sealed' collection & Grim 
Fandango.

IMO Bioshock 2 is much better / less unpleasant than the 1st.
The games are pretty self contained so don't you need to play  the 1st one.

Mr Robs suggestions look good. Both sort of Deus Ex / early Max Payne / 
Assassins Creed-ish
bit Tomb Raider-ish  .

Is that  'Watch Dogs' essentially Adventure ?
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")  mouse (So Many 'ish'es')

Raven's Cry might suit Peter .
Some descriptions have it as Action RPG some as Adventure some say Strategy.
Seems to have been due late 2012 but now announced for early March.
@@@mouse@@@ 

> (sigh...PC Gaming Dies Again)

There is a good news, a good thing that is coming out of this. 
Any computer, just anything can run all the good games and do all the good things. Get to the nearby store, buy the cheapest junk you find. 
Chances are it will run Fallouts, Morrowind, the Ultima Series, System Shock 2, Civilization III, Starcraft, Sim City 4, will have decent performance under DosBox.

That thing will also allow you to do all the stuff that any computer does.

Do not lament on the old games, reinstall those of old ! Discover mods! Find the ones you didn't play and enjoy some indie goodness ! It is a golden age for video games, although not the one we would have expected.

-Moa Dragon

> Is that  'Watch Dogs' essentially Adventure ?

Watch Dogs appear to be GTA with hacking. Or a modern's day Assassin's Creed. It is unknown if the game is going to be any good so far ;  a fair portion of what has been shown already look pretty much scripted.

-Moa Dragon

> I get no joy out of action games, fps games either. When I see a games 
> review for a new title, or a 'specials' mailout from my games store, I 
> move on the moment I see it's FPS, or AOE-stype RTS. 
> Just.Not.Interested.

You are not in luck with today's gaming then. Most of the different genres 
have been streamlined into action games, including RPGs. 

I do like an action game from time to time, I just hate it that it is 
my only choice, except...

> The one game I am looking forward to is Wasteland 2. Squad based 
> tactical rpg adventure, hopefully at its best. InExile recently put a 
> trailer/preview up - I see it's shifted to youtube because vimeo was 
> being precious about something and took it down. IIRC the target was to 
> have it out by October '13, but I may be mis-remembering.

except pretty much this. As of now, Kickstarter and the indie crowd are 
the only hope I have for good games.

I am not even 30 yet. I feel like an old nostalgic geezer, but truly, something
has died in gaming that we are not getting back, whether it being a gameplay 
style and depth, or simply the fact no more imagination is required from
all those graphics. 

Just being old.

-Moa Dragon

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 08:25:02 -0600, Zaghadka <zagh...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>(Current replay is "Pool of Radiance." I never played that series past
>"Curse of the Azure Bonds," and I'm hoping to take a transferrable party
>right from the start of the saga through to "Pools of Darkness." It holds
>up pretty well.)

Make sure they are all human or you will be very very sorry. And yes,
the Gold Box games do hold up well.

> Make sure they are all human or you will be very very sorry. And yes,
> the Gold Box games do hold up well.

To be honest, I never tried any. Which one would you recommend to newbie ?

-Moa Dragon

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 12:23:46 -0800 (PST), mick...@gmail.com wrote:

>To be honest, I never tried any. Which one would you recommend to newbie ?
>
>-Moa Dragon

I have three suggestions.

1. Start with POOL OF RADIANCE because it is the very first gold box
game. And if you like it, you should like all of the others. You can
move your characters over to the next game which is fun.

2. Start with CURSE OF THE AZURE BONDS (the sequel to Pool of
Radiance) because Pool has two problems you might not be able to look
past. First,  it has no fix command making healing your party a chore.
Second, combat can sometimes take a very long time to get through. I
*think* they fixed this by the second game. Certainly by the third.

3. Start with the game that is set in the world you find the most
appealing. Here is the entire sequence of games -->

FORGOTTEN REALMS

1. Pool of Radiance
2. Curse of the Azure Bonds
3. Secret of the Silver Blades
4. Pools of Darkness

DRAGONLANCE

1. Champions of Krynn
2. Death Knights of Krynn
3. Dark Queen of Krynn

SAVAGE FRONTIER

1. Gateway to the Savage Frontier
2. Treasures of the Savage Frontier

BUCK ROGERS

1. Countdown to Doomsday
2. Matrix Cubed

<<<<"something has died in gaming that we are not getting back, 
...I am not even 30 yet. ....Just being old">>>.

Now there's a comfort . I'm twice that age + + +. 
& struggle to think "Its me = Old.....not the games gone boring"
But IT IS  the dull unimaginative, energy gone out sequels..sequels .. 

I see a lot of comments on upcoming titles re. waiting for the next Gen.
Consoles e.g.. 2014.
So perhaps it will all wake up then.
But there is a dreadful shortage of new game ideas anywhere. 

(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.

<<<<".Do not lament on the old games, reinstall those of old ..">>>>

Yes I certainly agree.
I can play games, many 6+ years old with little or no sense of them being 
'old'.
Half-Life 2 Ep 2 ...Gothic 3 ...The Chronicles of Riddick...Thief 3 etc..

Only the graphics seemed to have improved & then only in mostly superficial 
ways.
I swear the 'A.I' gets worse/more simplistic/repetitive.
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(") Mouse

> I have three suggestions.

Thanks for all the advice. But then I realize I never completed BG1 and not moved to BG2. Maybe this should be my priority.

Moa Dragon

"Trimble Bracegirdle" <no-spam@never.spam> looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs
say:

><<<<"something has died in gaming that we are not getting back, 
>...I am not even 30 yet. ....Just being old">>>.
>
>Now there's a comfort . I'm twice that age + + +. 
>& struggle to think "Its me = Old.....not the games gone boring"
>But IT IS  the dull unimaginative, energy gone out sequels..sequels .. 
>
>I see a lot of comments on upcoming titles re. waiting for the next Gen.
>Consoles e.g.. 2014.
>So perhaps it will all wake up then.
>But there is a dreadful shortage of new game ideas anywhere. 

Oh I don't think that's true exactly.

There's a dreadful shortage of new game ideas actually being developed
by any major game studio since the bean counters in charge all follow
the sequels = guaranteed profit mantra.
Same thing Hollywood is doing, same reasons, same result, crappy sequels
and "remakes".

The imaginations are out there, the ideas are out there, just no one
seems willing to even consider risking the financing to make them,
instead staying on the rehash/remake treadmill.

The seeming dumbing down of games from all genres to be able to be
played with a console controller isn't helping either - it almost always
"forces" the developers to "streamline" the controls/gameplay.

Some small studio will make one of those new idea games, manage to get
it published somewhere and sell like wildfire if for no reason other
than it's not the same old game in new clothes, then all the big studios
will leap to make 3rd rate clones of it for the next 5 years until the
process repeats.

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of 
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, 
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So 
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr 

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 21:36:41 -0600, Zaghadka <zagh...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>I personally think Pool of Radiance is the best one. It has no "fix"
>option, though, as mentioned. You can download a hack to put that in if
>you Google it.

I had no idea there was a fix command hack. It did not even occur to
me that someone might have done something about this. Thanks for
mentioning this. Here is the link for anyone who is interested. -->

http://personal.inet.fi/koti/jhirvonen/gbc/

On Wed, 27 Feb 2013 21:25:26 -0800 (PST), mick...@gmail.com wrote:

>
>> I have three suggestions.
>
>Thanks for all the advice. But then I realize I never completed BG1 and not moved to BG2. Maybe this should be my priority.

The Baldur's Gate games are my two favorite RPGs of all time. Go for
it. 

There is a mod called EasyTutu that will let you play BG1 with the BG2
engine. One of the best mods ever as far as I am concerned.

<<<"There's a dreadful shortage of new game ideas actually being developed
......bean counters in charge all follow
the sequels = guaranteed profit mantra......
Same thing Hollywood  ...... crappy sequels and "remakes".>>>>

True ..."Call Of Duty: Die Hard With Online Elder Scrolls Hobbit" 

"The imaginations are out there....."

I don't know so much....Comp. gaming is 30+ years old.
It can't be 'New' & exciting for ever.
A 20 something programmer must see the industry as dull & uninviting

The hardware advances drive a lot of new-ness in game design.
IMO there has not been any meaningful hardware advances in (say) 10 years.
Just bigger, faster, more glossy...not new.
If the computers/consoles were (say) ten times faster than now 
their ability in terms of A.I. & game structure complexity would be 
not much more. Online Multiplayer advances also IMO has hit a ceiling.
(\__/)
(='.'=) 
(")_(")  mouse (There's Always Scrabble)

On Fri, 1 Mar 2013 00:54:28 -0000, "Trimble Bracegirdle"
<no-spam@never.spam> wrote:

><<<"There's a dreadful shortage of new game ideas actually being developed
>......bean counters in charge all follow
>the sequels = guaranteed profit mantra......
>Same thing Hollywood  ...... crappy sequels and "remakes".>>>>
>
>True ..."Call Of Duty: Die Hard With Online Elder Scrolls Hobbit" 
>
>"The imaginations are out there....."
>
>I don't know so much....Comp. gaming is 30+ years old.
>It can't be 'New' & exciting for ever.
>A 20 something programmer must see the industry as dull & uninviting
>
>The hardware advances drive a lot of new-ness in game design.
>IMO there has not been any meaningful hardware advances in (say) 10 years.
>Just bigger, faster, more glossy...not new.
>If the computers/consoles were (say) ten times faster than now 
>their ability in terms of A.I. & game structure complexity would be 
>not much more. Online Multiplayer advances also IMO has hit a ceiling.

The ceiling applies not just to gaming but computing in general.  I
consider myself lucky to have been alive and old enough to understand
what was going on as computers went from something that most people
did not even have in their homes to something that most people on this
planet interact with on a daily basis now.

It's been something similar to watching the first airplane take flight
or the first motor vehicle hit the road.  At some point during the
evolution of those two, someone sat back and said "meh!  Nothing
really new happening in the plane or car scene, planes still have the
same runway and landing limitations and cars still require a human
driver" ...or whatever other disappointment of expectation they can
think of.  Every technology has those ceilings.  

Mobile computing has been stealing the show over the last few years
and there have been a number of interesting innovations there -- they
may not be ones you or I in particular prefer or care about, but life
goes on and does not necessarily cater to us as individuals or evolve
in ways we want.

But how amazing was it that we were alive when the first video games
were ever made available to consumers (home console systems, arcade
games, etc).  Some will get into all sorts of elaborate discussions
and split hairs on what the first true video game really was, but it's
also fair to say that video games at the consumer level didn't really
happen until sometime around until the 70s.

"Trimble Bracegirdle" <no-spam@never.spam> looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs
say:

><<<"There's a dreadful shortage of new game ideas actually being developed
>......bean counters in charge all follow
>the sequels = guaranteed profit mantra......
>Same thing Hollywood  ...... crappy sequels and "remakes".>>>>
>
>True ..."Call Of Duty: Die Hard With Online Elder Scrolls Hobbit" 

Or on the movie side of things:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1498870/?ref_=fn_al_tt_2

>"The imaginations are out there....."
>
>I don't know so much....Comp. gaming is 30+ years old.
>It can't be 'New' & exciting for ever.
>A 20 something programmer must see the industry as dull & uninviting
>
>The hardware advances drive a lot of new-ness in game design.
>IMO there has not been any meaningful hardware advances in (say) 10 years.
>Just bigger, faster, more glossy...not new.
>If the computers/consoles were (say) ten times faster than now 
>their ability in terms of A.I. & game structure complexity would be 
>not much more. Online Multiplayer advances also IMO has hit a ceiling.

Well all the hardware in the world won't help if the developers won't
make use of it.
They can do good pseudo AI now, but all too often they just don't bother
with anything more but the most simplistic stuff and just concentrate on
graphics and cutscenes instead.

Just look at pathing, it's usually just best path = only path, instead
of choosing best 3 or 4 paths and randomly assigning the critters to
those paths so they seem more alive and actually attack from multiple
directions.
We generally just get either them all following the best path, or them
following pre-assigned multiple paths activated by trigger spots which
of course are _always_ going to be exactly the same.

The big problem is, they do this because pathing breaks unless you
really do it right - critters get caught on invisible bits of scenery
and look ridiculous - have critters following 4 paths and those paths
changing in real time as you move means they can't cheat and "smooth"
the path to make sure things don't catch.

Ditto for complex level layouts - the more complexity, the more chance
the AI pathing will hang up some where (not to mention most consoles
simply could not fit a really complex level in their hardware,) and
nothing breaks immersion more than an NPC baddie stuck on a chair or in
a doorway.

While it was a horrible game in almost every aspect (graphics, level
design, cutscenes and especially dialog,) Daikatana had incredibly
impressive pathing.  You could, and I did, abandon the NPC "buddies" at
the start of a level (so they didn't kill themselves in a door or shoot
me in the back,) reach the end of the level (and get the inane "I can't
leave without my buddy Superfly" message,) at which point those buddies
would navigate the entire level to me on their own, opening doors,
climbing ladders, jumping over gaps, etc.
Most games once you'd cleared out the level you'd have to go back to the
start them painstakingly lead them through everything.


Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of 
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, 
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So 
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr 

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:10:20 +0400, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote:

> The seeming dumbing down of games from all genres to be able to be
> played with a console controller isn't helping either - it almost always
> "forces" the developers to "streamline" the controls/gameplay.

Deja-vu: somewhat 20 years ago they used to say the same when Sierra went
"mouse-only way" in its quests. "They" included me.


-- 
Andrew Rybenkov

Rin Stowleigh <rstow...@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails
of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Fri, 1 Mar 2013 00:54:28 -0000, "Trimble Bracegirdle"
><no-spam@never.spam> wrote:
>
>><<<"There's a dreadful shortage of new game ideas actually being developed
>>......bean counters in charge all follow
>>the sequels = guaranteed profit mantra......
>>Same thing Hollywood  ...... crappy sequels and "remakes".>>>>
>>
>>True ..."Call Of Duty: Die Hard With Online Elder Scrolls Hobbit" 
>>
>>"The imaginations are out there....."
>>
>>I don't know so much....Comp. gaming is 30+ years old.
>>It can't be 'New' & exciting for ever.
>>A 20 something programmer must see the industry as dull & uninviting
>>
>>The hardware advances drive a lot of new-ness in game design.
>>IMO there has not been any meaningful hardware advances in (say) 10 years.
>>Just bigger, faster, more glossy...not new.
>>If the computers/consoles were (say) ten times faster than now 
>>their ability in terms of A.I. & game structure complexity would be 
>>not much more. Online Multiplayer advances also IMO has hit a ceiling.
>
>The ceiling applies not just to gaming but computing in general.  I
>consider myself lucky to have been alive and old enough to understand
>what was going on as computers went from something that most people
>did not even have in their homes to something that most people on this
>planet interact with on a daily basis now.
>
>It's been something similar to watching the first airplane take flight
>or the first motor vehicle hit the road.  At some point during the
>evolution of those two, someone sat back and said "meh!  Nothing
>really new happening in the plane or car scene, planes still have the
>same runway and landing limitations and cars still require a human
>driver" ...or whatever other disappointment of expectation they can
>think of.  Every technology has those ceilings.  

Well planes in general do, and with the advent of jet engines those
runway and landing limitations increased.
But on the other hand there's stuff like Harriers that could take off
and land in your back yard.

>Mobile computing has been stealing the show over the last few years
>and there have been a number of interesting innovations there -- they
>may not be ones you or I in particular prefer or care about, but life
>goes on and does not necessarily cater to us as individuals or evolve
>in ways we want.

I blame mobile computer for a lot of the stagnation in gaming, since
those mobile devices (portable game players, phones, etc) had
substantially inferior hardware to a PC so the only games that could
possible play on them HAD to be quite limited.

>But how amazing was it that we were alive when the first video games
>were ever made available to consumers (home console systems, arcade
>games, etc).  Some will get into all sorts of elaborate discussions
>and split hairs on what the first true video game really was, but it's
>also fair to say that video games at the consumer level didn't really
>happen until sometime around until the 70s.

I always thought the first real video game was Spacewar!
Available on PDPs in the 60's then as a commercial coin op game in 1971
(shown in the movie Soylent Green if you've never seen one anywhere
else.)

While there were tic-tac-toe and chess games on computer before that,
those aren't really _video_ games, any more than a series of comic
panels, complete with dialog, strung together sequentially on video is a
movie.   A slide show is not a movie.

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of 
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, 
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So 
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr 

"Andrew Rybenkov" <aryb...@gmail.com> looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs
say:

>On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:10:20 +0400, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote:
>
>> The seeming dumbing down of games from all genres to be able to be
>> played with a console controller isn't helping either - it almost always
>> "forces" the developers to "streamline" the controls/gameplay.
>
>Deja-vu: somewhat 20 years ago they used to say the same when Sierra went
>"mouse-only way" in its quests. "They" included me.

Yep, the game companies have become so unoriginal, they're even
recycling their old mistakes.

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of 
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, 
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So 
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr 

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:12:05 -0600, Zaghadka <zagh...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>That's one of them. And now we will not hear from Mike S. for a while...
>
>}:^>

I replied to this yesterday but I don't see the message on my own
server so I am not sure if it got posted or not. 

I don't post a lot only because I really only play older RPGs and MMOs
these days, neither of which is a topic of discussion most of the
time. But I am always here. :-P

Mike S. <Mik...@nowhere.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the
porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:12:05 -0600, Zaghadka <zagh...@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>That's one of them. And now we will not hear from Mike S. for a while...
>>
>>}:^>
>
>I replied to this yesterday but I don't see the message on my own
>server so I am not sure if it got posted or not. 
>
>I don't post a lot only because I really only play older RPGs and MMOs
>these days, neither of which is a topic of discussion most of the
>time. But I am always here. :-P

You could always try to make them a topic of discussion.
It's not like the group is flooded with talk of current RPGs at the
moment.

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of 
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, 
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So 
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr 

On Fri, 01 Mar 2013 13:16:14 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>
wrote:

>You could always try to make them a topic of discussion.
>It's not like the group is flooded with talk of current RPGs at the
>moment.

While I used to post more often, I rarely started my own threads. That
probably isn't going to change now. Though if I do have something to
say, I certainly will start one. The last thing I read about that
really mattered to me was the cancellation of City of Heroes and I did
start a thread about that.

Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote in
news:9ubci8l6548dm6...@4ax.com: 

> "Trimble Bracegirdle" <no-spam@never.spam> looked up from reading the
> entrails of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs
> say:
> 
>>The games industry seems to be increasingly stretching less & less
>>'new' out as far as possible.
>>Sequels, Games into Films ...Dues Ex ...Assassins Creed...Splinter
>>Cell 
> 
> Nothing really new here, they've been doing that since the turn of the
> millennia if not before. The suits took over and only "guaranteed
> profitable" projects get green lit these days.

If not stuck in Japan.

*makes a note to import Jump Ultimate Stars one day*

> Add in the ['feed da sheep' attitude] and is it any wonder that damn near
> all we get now is dumbed down, consolized sequels on PC?

Thank goodness for the indie circuit (although, even here, your mileage may 
vary). ^_^U

> Hollywood seems to be doing the same - remakes and rehashes and action
> films best summarized by that Robot Chicken spoof  "Michael Bay
> presents EXPLOSIONS"  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7ssUivM-eM

This is why I like to revisit classic flicks and series like Aliens, 
Terminator 1&2, Daria, Downtown and even Megas XLR once in a while.

The 80s and 90s were when TV/film was good (or, at least, somewhat 
watchable). ^_^

Signed,
Warewolf
who would find it ironic to see Earthworm Jim in a Robot Chicken sketch.

"Trimble Bracegirdle" <no-spam@never.spam> wrote in news:kgm502$i5d$1
@speranza.aioe.org:

> I see a lot of comments on upcoming titles re. waiting for the next
> Gen. Consoles e.g.. 2014.
> So perhaps it will all wake up then.
> But there is a dreadful shortage of new game ideas anywhere. 

Continuity
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/581441

Monster Bark
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/584766

These Robotic Hearts of Mine
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/585599

Fracuum
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/594354

Dead Pixel
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/595754

Psychout
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/596834

Flippin' Dead
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/605013

Simian Interface
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/612107

Faultline
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/570001

The I of It
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/570709

Gap Monsters
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/575508

Sugar Sugar 1 & 2
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/564746
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/597694

Liquid Meaure 2
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/554015

Haunt the House
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/552005

Apples in the Tree
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/547881

Depict1
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/546057

Shift 1-4
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/422855
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/429930
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/448901
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/496220

Laser Crawler
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/509011

Every Day the Same Dream
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/540741

In other words there are a lot of (semi-)original titles out there if 
you know where to look. ^_^

Signed,
Warewolf
who stopped purchasing the 'same old same mold' a long time ago.

"Trimble Bracegirdle" <no-spam@never.spam> wrote in
news:kgou8b$4fc$1...@speranza.aioe.org: 

> "The imaginations are out there....."
> 
> I don't know so much....Comp. gaming is 30+ years old.
> It can't be 'New' & exciting for ever.
> A 20 something programmer must see the industry as dull & uninviting

The retail software industry, maybe.

The indie circuit, I'm not so sure.

I've seen games (ie World of Goo) that did something different and, unless 
I'm mistaken, were moderately successful.

Even the most boring condo has space for a window garden.

> The hardware advances drive a lot of new-ness in game design.
> IMO there has not been any meaningful hardware advances in (say) 10
> years. Just bigger, faster, more glossy...not new.
> If the computers/consoles were (say) ten times faster than now 
> their ability in terms of A.I. & game structure complexity would be 
> not much more. Online Multiplayer advances also IMO has hit a ceiling.

Then perhaps it's time for the Big Boys (if not the hobbyists) to dust off 
a few of the dusty old tomes on their shelves. If oldies such as Lode 
Runner, Stunts/4D Driving and Nyet III can do things that many modern games 
cannot do today, it may be time for them to rethink their 
design/programming stretegies.

'Work smarter not harder' is still a good lesson to learn.

Signed,
Warewolf

Warewolf <warewol...@shaw.ca> looked up from reading the entrails
of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote in
>news:9ubci8l6548dm6...@4ax.com: 
>
>> "Trimble Bracegirdle" <no-spam@never.spam> looked up from reading the
>> entrails of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs
>> say:
>> 
>>>The games industry seems to be increasingly stretching less & less
>>>'new' out as far as possible.
>>>Sequels, Games into Films ...Dues Ex ...Assassins Creed...Splinter
>>>Cell 
>> 
>> Nothing really new here, they've been doing that since the turn of the
>> millennia if not before. The suits took over and only "guaranteed
>> profitable" projects get green lit these days.
>
>If not stuck in Japan.

Another issue entirely but yeah the Japanese seem to make a lot of stuff
that never leaves their country - greedy bastards.

>*makes a note to import Jump Ultimate Stars one day*
>
>> Add in the ['feed da sheep' attitude] and is it any wonder that damn near
>> all we get now is dumbed down, consolized sequels on PC?
>
>Thank goodness for the indie circuit (although, even here, your mileage may 
>vary). ^_^U

At least the indies are willing to try stuff outside the mainstream.
And I guess there's always the hope that another indie game will sell
big and attract a major studio into making a big budget version of it.
Now as to whether the big budget version will be worth playing, since
they'll probably misunderstand what made it popular in the first place,
we'll just have to see.

>> Hollywood seems to be doing the same - remakes and rehashes and action
>> films best summarized by that Robot Chicken spoof  "Michael Bay
>> presents EXPLOSIONS"  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7ssUivM-eM
>
>This is why I like to revisit classic flicks and series like Aliens, 
>Terminator 1&2, Daria, Downtown and even Megas XLR once in a while.

I actually liked all the Alien movies (even Prometheus), although Aliens
is the best of the bunch.
Ditto for Terminator - liked all 3 movies and the TV series.  Who
couldn't like the Rivernator.

>The 80s and 90s were when TV/film was good (or, at least, somewhat 
>watchable). ^_^

I'm actually watching Roswell on DVD at the moment.

>who would find it ironic to see Earthworm Jim in a Robot Chicken sketch.

Maybe someday if they keep making them.

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of 
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, 
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So 
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr 

On 02/03/2013 11:59, Xocyll wrote:
> I actually liked all the Alien movies (even Prometheus), although Aliens
> is the best of the bunch.
> Ditto for Terminator - liked all 3 movies and the TV series.  Who
> couldn't like the Rivernator.

Yes Aliens was the best one. Loved the fight at the end with Ridley in 
the lifting machine vs the Alien Queen. I haven't seen Prometheus yet.
And Terminator 2 is one of my favourite films. Robert Patrick played his 
part to perfection. No idea what the Rivernator is as I haven't seen the 
TV series but I suspect I know what it may be.
I have a sense of nostalgia for the old 70 and 80s sci-fi series. 6 
Million Dollar Man, Incredible Hulk, Knight Rider...fond childhood 
memories which I am reliving thanks to DVD boxsets...:)




-- 
Words with Friends/Chess with Friends/Naked War username: HaggisHunter

Using an Intel i7 PC with a Zotac GTX580 gfx card, ASUS Xonar D2X 
soundcard, 30" Samsung monitor, 6GB of memory and Windows 7 64-bit

3DS friend code 0404 - 5484 - 5096

William McNee <wullie@hame.the.noo.invalid> looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs
say:

>On 02/03/2013 11:59, Xocyll wrote:
>> I actually liked all the Alien movies (even Prometheus), although Aliens
>> is the best of the bunch.
>> Ditto for Terminator - liked all 3 movies and the TV series.  Who
>> couldn't like the Rivernator.
>
>Yes Aliens was the best one. Loved the fight at the end with Ridley in 
>the lifting machine vs the Alien Queen. I haven't seen Prometheus yet.
>And Terminator 2 is one of my favourite films. Robert Patrick played his 
>part to perfection. No idea what the Rivernator is as I haven't seen the 
>TV series but I suspect I know what it may be.

That's just my name for her since it's the same actress playing the
Terminator as played River Tam in Firefly.

http://tederick.com/reviews/scc.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fqUPDOz_dXs/Ta7BS5Ug1tI/AAAAAAAAAQ4/Ic9NFLRHRh8/s400/TerminatorCameron.jpg
http://www.rrr.org.au/assets/sccseason2_image4.jpg

You know it just now occurred to me that there were actually 4
Terminator films not 3.  As well as the machinima series.

>I have a sense of nostalgia for the old 70 and 80s sci-fi series. 6 
>Million Dollar Man, Incredible Hulk, Knight Rider...fond childhood 
>memories which I am reliving thanks to DVD boxsets...:)

Heh, I have The Rockford Files, Space:1999, Quincy and the Hardy
Boys/Nancy Drew combo series from the 70s on DVD as well as the 60s
series The Time Tunnel.
The downside is a lot of stuff has just never been released and the
stuff that is is released season by season, so it can take friggen years
for the whole series to be released if it ever is.
Quincy season 1/2 combo - dvd release June 2005.
Season 5 is coming March 2013,  8 years later.
There were 8 seasons in total, so probably another 5-6 years before it's
all out, if it ever is.

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of 
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, 
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So 
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr 

On 3/1/2013 8:48 PM, Warewolf wrote:
> Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote in
> news:9ubci8l6548dm6...@4ax.com:
>
>> "Trimble Bracegirdle" <no-spam@never.spam> looked up from reading the
>> entrails of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs
>> say:
>>
>>> The games industry seems to be increasingly stretching less & less
>>> 'new' out as far as possible.
>>> Sequels, Games into Films ...Dues Ex ...Assassins Creed...Splinter
>>> Cell
>>
>> Nothing really new here, they've been doing that since the turn of the
>> millennia if not before. The suits took over and only "guaranteed
>> profitable" projects get green lit these days.

Better than Any Shit that Exercises the three D Processor Flies

-- 
Annnooothherr Maybe YAH

    -- The Thor Doctrine encircling NATO and Greco-Roman Soviet + 
Deutschlka Ehre Ehre Ehre Ehre m

On 3/1/2013 11:42 PM, Warewolf wrote:
> "Trimble Bracegirdle" <no-spam@never.spam> wrote in
> news:kgou8b$4fc$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
>
>> "The imaginations are out there....."
>>
>> I don't know so much....Comp. gaming is 30+ years old.
>> It can't be 'New' & exciting for ever.
>> A 20 something programmer must see the industry as dull & uninviting

This oinie ist weak in the Force

-- 
Annnooothherr Maybe YAH

    -- The Thor Doctrine encircling NATO and Greco-Roman Soviet + 
Deutschlka Ehre Ehre Ehre Ehre m

On 3/1/2013 11:26 PM, Warewolf wrote:
> "Trimble Bracegirdle" <no-spam@never.spam> wrote in news:kgm502$i5d$1
> @speranza.aioe.org:
>
>> I see a lot of comments on upcoming titles re. waiting for the next
>> Gen. Consoles e.g.. 2014.
>> So perhaps it will all wake up then.
>> But there is a dreadful shortage of new game ideas anywhere.

Go back and play some of the 3 million titles the industry forced you to 
buy over the last 8 years

-- 
Annnooothherr Maybe YAH

    -- The Thor Doctrine encircling NATO and Greco-Roman Soviet + 
Deutschlka Ehre Ehre Ehre Ehre m

Zaghadka <zagh...@hotmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Sat, 02 Mar 2013 14:21:29 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
>Xocyll wrote: 
>
>>William McNee <wullie@hame.the.noo.invalid> looked up from reading the
>>entrails of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs
>>say:
>>
>>>On 02/03/2013 11:59, Xocyll wrote:
>>>> I actually liked all the Alien movies (even Prometheus), although Aliens
>>>> is the best of the bunch.
>>>> Ditto for Terminator - liked all 3 movies and the TV series.  Who
>>>> couldn't like the Rivernator.
>>>
>>>Yes Aliens was the best one. Loved the fight at the end with Ridley in 
>>>the lifting machine vs the Alien Queen. I haven't seen Prometheus yet.
>>>And Terminator 2 is one of my favourite films. Robert Patrick played his 
>>>part to perfection. No idea what the Rivernator is as I haven't seen the 
>>>TV series but I suspect I know what it may be.
>>
>>That's just my name for her since it's the same actress playing the
>>Terminator as played River Tam in Firefly.
>>
>>http://tederick.com/reviews/scc.jpg
>>http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fqUPDOz_dXs/Ta7BS5Ug1tI/AAAAAAAAAQ4/Ic9NFLRHRh8/s400/TerminatorCameron.jpg
>>http://www.rrr.org.au/assets/sccseason2_image4.jpg
>>
>>You know it just now occurred to me that there were actually 4
>>Terminator films not 3.  As well as the machinima series.
>>
>>>I have a sense of nostalgia for the old 70 and 80s sci-fi series. 6 
>>>Million Dollar Man, Incredible Hulk, Knight Rider...fond childhood 
>>>memories which I am reliving thanks to DVD boxsets...:)
>>
>>Heh, I have The Rockford Files, Space:1999, Quincy and the Hardy
>>Boys/Nancy Drew combo series from the 70s on DVD as well as the 60s
>>series The Time Tunnel.
>>The downside is a lot of stuff has just never been released and the
>>stuff that is is released season by season, so it can take friggen years
>>for the whole series to be released if it ever is.
>>Quincy season 1/2 combo - dvd release June 2005.
>>Season 5 is coming March 2013,  8 years later.
>>There were 8 seasons in total, so probably another 5-6 years before it's
>>all out, if it ever is.
>>
>
>You and I have similar tastes in television.

I'm not strictly old stuff, mostly newer stuff in fact, but when I come
across one of those old favored series on dvd I pretty much have to buy
it, especially if I never got to see all of the episodes back in the
day.

First TV-on-Dvd purchase was Babylon 5 which I was convinced I had
missed a lot of episodes of - I thought I'd missed the whole last season
(turned out I had seen it, but I still enjoyed watching it all again.)
Then Space 1999 special ordered, then Buffy the Vampire Slayer (which
I'd only seen part of 3 seasons of), then Stargate SG-1 which I'd seen
parts of 2 seasons of.
It's an addicting hobby and has in the past seriously curtailed my
gaming hobby (when there's limited money available and you are buying
dvds, it takes _much_ longer to save up for a major, multi-piece
upgrade.)

Beats watching dreck like Survivor or Big Brother (I am so disgusted
there's a Canadian Big Brother now) or crap like Storage Wars.

Oh Jesus Christ, I just noticed on the TV listings for tonight
"Celebrity Wife Swap"!  
That's it, civilization has fallen, bring on the Apocalypse.

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of 
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, 
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So 
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr 

On Feb 21, 7:51 am, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote:
> "Trimble Bracegirdle" <no-s...@never.spam> looked up from reading the
> entrails of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs
> say:
> <snip>>I've been looking around at what action games are due within a year or so.
> >Interesting list "Most Anticipated" here:
> >http://www.metacritic.com/feature/video-game-preview-2013
>
> >Worries that I find very little I look forward to.

>
> >GTA V
>
> I wonder how many online things you'll have to be connected to to even
> _install_ this much less play it.
> I have yet to play GTA IV due to the forced connections to "social
> clubs" and the like that I have less than zero interest in.
>

Yeesh.  Games for windows and social club, both which I couldn't care
less about.

> >I have very big maybes against even that short list.
> >I never seem to get far in GTA's  before interest is worn out.
> >The no quick save system doesn't help.

I just finished GTA IV now that it works on my system - upgraded to
win 8, wouldn't work on XP for some reason, same hardware.

Anyway, I give it a thumbs down.  Rather disappointing.  No Rampages!
I think they just took themselves too seriously (GTA serious?
really!?!)

> Nothing really new here, they've been doing that since the turn of the
> millennia if not before.

I think Indie is the only way now if you want something new and
interesting (much like movies), the gaming industry has "matured".
Portal, Minecraft (not that I get Minecraft), Grimrock (not that I've
played it), etc.

> Hollywood seems to be doing the same - remakes and rehashes and action
> films best summarized by that Robot Chicken spoof  "Michael Bay presents
> EXPLOSIONS"  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7ssUivM-eM
>

I think I've seen this series on the Discovery Channel.

- Justisaur

I played at least some of all the GTA's since III & find IV the most 
satisfying
...the save system spoils them for me..& I seem to have abandoned it early 
on.
I think recent patches have removed or at least simplified the DRM / Social 
Club annoyances
winch may be why it works for you now not before.

I see reports that GTA V should be far less annoying in this respect.
Looks like Games For Windows is dying out.
@@@mouse@@@
 

Justisaur <just...@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Feb 21, 7:51�am, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote:
>> "Trimble Bracegirdle" <no-s...@never.spam> looked up from reading the
>> entrails of the porn spammer to utter �"The Augury is good, the signs
>> say:
>> <snip>>I've been looking around at what action games are due within a year or so.
>> >Interesting list "Most Anticipated" here:
>> >http://www.metacritic.com/feature/video-game-preview-2013
>>
>> >Worries that I find very little I look forward to.
>
>>
>> >GTA V
>>
>> I wonder how many online things you'll have to be connected to to even
>> _install_ this much less play it.
>> I have yet to play GTA IV due to the forced connections to "social
>> clubs" and the like that I have less than zero interest in.
>>
>
>Yeesh.  Games for windows and social club, both which I couldn't care
>less about.

Bingo.  I have no intention of using either of those. GFWL I never had
interest in and Rockstar Social Club, sorry guys, I'm not 10, I'm not
going to try and impress people with my game scores like that's some
kind of real achievement.

>> >I have very big maybes against even that short list.
>> >I never seem to get far in GTA's �before interest is worn out.
>> >The no quick save system doesn't help.
>
>I just finished GTA IV now that it works on my system - upgraded to
>win 8, wouldn't work on XP for some reason, same hardware.

That might explain some of the issues I had getting it to run - it
didn't but since it required the GFWL and RSC links active, I didn't
explore further.  Had I paid full retail I would have, but this was
bought on sale so it just never felt worth the effort.

>Anyway, I give it a thumbs down.  Rather disappointing.  No Rampages!
>I think they just took themselves too seriously (GTA serious?
>really!?!)

Yeah, what ever happened to running over a string of chanting Hari
Krishas and getting GOURANGA! on your screen?

For that matter, what ever happened to stealing cars and selling them to
a chop shop?  Curiously little actual GTA going on in GTA titles.
What used to be a core part of the game to make money is now reduced to,
usually, one mission or mission string.  GTA3 had that one timed mission
where you had to steal 10 cars.  Vice City - if you bought the car shop
there were 3 boards worth of cars to steal 10 each I think, then
nothing.  San Andreas had one mission to steal some cars I think.

But none of them just let you steal cars and deliver them to the docks
and sell them for cash.

Haven't actually played GTA4 yet so...

>> Nothing really new here, they've been doing that since the turn of the
>> millennia if not before.
>
>I think Indie is the only way now if you want something new and
>interesting (much like movies), the gaming industry has "matured".
>Portal, Minecraft (not that I get Minecraft), Grimrock (not that I've
>played it), etc.

Yeah I have been highly impressed by Path of Exile - everything Diablo3
should have been - lots of depth and choice in character development,
and therefore lots of potential builds and massive replay value.

Although some of the mature developers still do it right - just started
playing Skyrim and am favorably impressed.   It's not perfect and
continues on in the direction I didn't like with Oblivion (removal of
flight/levitate spells/items to mention but one) but it's still damn
good.

Now if only they would remake Daggerfall with the engine used for
Skyrim, without gutting the features of Daggerfall, I would be a very
happy man.

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of 
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, 
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So 
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr 

Justisaur <just...@gmail.com> writes:

> Yeesh.  Games for windows and social club, both which I couldn't care
> less about.

Was the Social Club ever required? I thought you could just skip it.

As for GFWL I think online login was only required if you had bought DLC
via it, otherwise a local account was fine.

Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> writes:

> But none of them just let you steal cars and deliver them to the docks
> and sell them for cash.

True but then again, there wasn't that much you could do with cash
anyways. Well, in San Andreas there were quite a few safe houses you
could buy but the earlier ones not so much. GTA3, Vice City and San
Andreas all had an extremely similar thing, here's a list of cars,
bring any one of them for cash and a bonus if you get them all. 

GTA3 had also this emergency vehicle crane which accepted all of those
for cash but only one each. Vice City Stories or Liberty City Stories
expanded this sort of thing to boats too. Which was excruciatingly
boring to do especially with a slow sailing boat... In the end these
were nothing but fedex quests and you had to be careful too to not
damage the car at least from SA onwards. They should've added an option
to hire a truck to take the car to wherever... Or in SA with the gang
stuff it could've been a car theft management minigame. Hire guys, find
buyers, bribe the cops etc. Take part sometimes if you want to,
otherwise watch the money roll in.

> Haven't actually played GTA4 yet so...

As I recall you get emails in GTA4 about cars that are wanted and a
general area where it could be found. Didn't do those much, again not
much use for money in GTA4. Real improvement over SA though where some
cars could get seriously rare or only had one specific spawn location.

On Wed, 27 Mar 2013 06:39:24 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>
wrote:

>Justisaur <just...@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
>the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>>On Feb 21, 7:51�am, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote:
>>> "Trimble Bracegirdle" <no-s...@never.spam> looked up from reading the
>>> entrails of the porn spammer to utter �"The Augury is good, the signs
>>> say:
>>> <snip>>I've been looking around at what action games are due within a year or so.
>>> >Interesting list "Most Anticipated" here:
>>> >http://www.metacritic.com/feature/video-game-preview-2013
>>>
>>> >Worries that I find very little I look forward to.
>>
>>>
>>> >GTA V
>>>
>>> I wonder how many online things you'll have to be connected to to even
>>> _install_ this much less play it.
>>> I have yet to play GTA IV due to the forced connections to "social
>>> clubs" and the like that I have less than zero interest in.
>>>
>>
>>Yeesh.  Games for windows and social club, both which I couldn't care
>>less about.
>
>Bingo.  I have no intention of using either of those. GFWL I never had
>interest in and Rockstar Social Club, sorry guys, I'm not 10, I'm not
>going to try and impress people with my game scores like that's some
>kind of real achievement.

I could be wrong about this, but if I recall correctly the Rockstar
Social Club thing was basically just the mechanism that facilitates
multiplayer.  I only played GTV IV multiplayer for a few minutes, but
there was a definately a valid MP game and community there.  It was
reasonable fun driving around the city and killing each other.

I think you're speaking about the achievements aspect of it, but I
think that is more of a side thing than the social club's reason for
being.  Most "social" features in MP games use that term because its
the current trendy buzzword, and I guess it does apply in some ways,
but most of the time social simply means jumping into games with the
people you want to be playing with, as opposed to random fucktards
that might diminish the fun.

Anssi Saari  <a...@sci.fi> wrote:
>Was the Social Club ever required? I thought you could just skip it.

They initially required you to login to Rockstar Social Club to play,
but they later patched out that requirement.  It's still not obvious
that you don't need it, or that you don't need online GFWL account.

				Ross Ridge

-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //	  

On Mar 27, 7:15 am, Anssi Saari <a....@sci.fi> wrote:
> Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> writes:

> > Haven't actually played GTA4 yet so...
>
> As I recall you get emails in GTA4 about cars that are wanted and a
> general area where it could be found. Didn't do those much, again not
> much use for money in GTA4. Real improvement over SA though where some
> cars could get seriously rare or only had one specific spawn location.

Yep, pretty much.  The rampages and car stealing aren't the only
things.  I used to like to do all the various car based missions, cop,
fire, & ambulence... only cop missions remain, and you have to get
about 1/3 of the though the game to be able to get them.

- Justisaur

Anssi Saari <a...@sci.fi> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> writes:
>
>> But none of them just let you steal cars and deliver them to the docks
>> and sell them for cash.
>
>True but then again, there wasn't that much you could do with cash
>anyways. Well, in San Andreas there were quite a few safe houses you
>could buy but the earlier ones not so much. GTA3, Vice City and San
>Andreas all had an extremely similar thing, here's a list of cars,
>bring any one of them for cash and a bonus if you get them all. 
>
>GTA3 had also this emergency vehicle crane which accepted all of those
>for cash but only one each. Vice City Stories or Liberty City Stories
>expanded this sort of thing to boats too. Which was excruciatingly
>boring to do especially with a slow sailing boat... In the end these
>were nothing but fedex quests and you had to be careful too to not
>damage the car at least from SA onwards. They should've added an option
>to hire a truck to take the car to wherever... Or in SA with the gang
>stuff it could've been a car theft management minigame. Hire guys, find
>buyers, bribe the cops etc. Take part sometimes if you want to,
>otherwise watch the money roll in.

I guess what bugs me about the whole thing is that most car theft isn't
the high end stuff that's going to be sold elsewhere - it's the more
middle of the road stuff that's stripped for parts and then the parts
are sold.  The first game reflected this - you could sell pretty much
anything to the dock guy.

The later games - it was a list of high end or rare cars only "steal to
order" not the basic car theft you'd expect in a game called grand theft
auto.

>> Haven't actually played GTA4 yet so...
>
>As I recall you get emails in GTA4 about cars that are wanted and a
>general area where it could be found. Didn't do those much, again not
>much use for money in GTA4. Real improvement over SA though where some
>cars could get seriously rare or only had one specific spawn location.

Again - sounds like the "steal to order" bit which is not the core of
the "industry."

They're called chop shops for a reason - the cars do NOT leave intact.

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of 
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, 
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So 
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr 

Rin Stowleigh <rstow...@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails
of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Wed, 27 Mar 2013 06:39:24 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Justisaur <just...@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
>>the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>>
>>>On Feb 21, 7:51�am, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote:
>>>> "Trimble Bracegirdle" <no-s...@never.spam> looked up from reading the
>>>> entrails of the porn spammer to utter �"The Augury is good, the signs
>>>> say:
>>>> <snip>>I've been looking around at what action games are due within a year or so.
>>>> >Interesting list "Most Anticipated" here:
>>>> >http://www.metacritic.com/feature/video-game-preview-2013
>>>>
>>>> >Worries that I find very little I look forward to.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> >GTA V
>>>>
>>>> I wonder how many online things you'll have to be connected to to even
>>>> _install_ this much less play it.
>>>> I have yet to play GTA IV due to the forced connections to "social
>>>> clubs" and the like that I have less than zero interest in.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Yeesh.  Games for windows and social club, both which I couldn't care
>>>less about.
>>
>>Bingo.  I have no intention of using either of those. GFWL I never had
>>interest in and Rockstar Social Club, sorry guys, I'm not 10, I'm not
>>going to try and impress people with my game scores like that's some
>>kind of real achievement.
>
>I could be wrong about this, but if I recall correctly the Rockstar
>Social Club thing was basically just the mechanism that facilitates
>multiplayer.  I only played GTV IV multiplayer for a few minutes, but
>there was a definately a valid MP game and community there.  It was
>reasonable fun driving around the city and killing each other.

Yeah but I have zero interest in multiplayer in a game like this.
It's one of the reasons I've played them - they weren't infected with
multiplayer (which generally means the single player aspect gets
shortchanged in order to bolt on multiplayer modes.)

>I think you're speaking about the achievements aspect of it, but I
>think that is more of a side thing than the social club's reason for
>being.  Most "social" features in MP games use that term because its
>the current trendy buzzword, and I guess it does apply in some ways,
>but most of the time social simply means jumping into games with the
>people you want to be playing with, as opposed to random fucktards
>that might diminish the fun.

What's wrong with "multiplayer" and "friends list" - in use for the
better part of 2 decades - that they have to try and redefine "social"
to mean those?

It was one of the complaints of the "have no achievements in real life"
set that they couldn't show off their GTA:SA etc achievements.

Doesn't steam also do this?  I know games that have achievements of any
kind like fallout3 store them on steam to be shown off.

If those types want that, fine, but I wish they'd stop forcing the rest
of us to join their club.

Why the fuck do I have to be online with GFWL and this social club in
order to play the purely local, single player game?

It's not a "if you want to play multi you have to link to these," it's
"if you want to play at all," and that's fucking retarded.

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of 
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, 
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So 
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr 

On Thu, 28 Mar 2013 04:57:50 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>
wrote:

>Rin Stowleigh <rstow...@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails
>of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>>On Wed, 27 Mar 2013 06:39:24 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Justisaur <just...@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
>>>the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>>>
>>>>On Feb 21, 7:51�am, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote:
>>>>> "Trimble Bracegirdle" <no-s...@never.spam> looked up from reading the
>>>>> entrails of the porn spammer to utter �"The Augury is good, the signs
>>>>> say:
>>>>> <snip>>I've been looking around at what action games are due within a year or so.
>>>>> >Interesting list "Most Anticipated" here:
>>>>> >http://www.metacritic.com/feature/video-game-preview-2013
>>>>>
>>>>> >Worries that I find very little I look forward to.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >GTA V
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder how many online things you'll have to be connected to to even
>>>>> _install_ this much less play it.
>>>>> I have yet to play GTA IV due to the forced connections to "social
>>>>> clubs" and the like that I have less than zero interest in.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Yeesh.  Games for windows and social club, both which I couldn't care
>>>>less about.
>>>
>>>Bingo.  I have no intention of using either of those. GFWL I never had
>>>interest in and Rockstar Social Club, sorry guys, I'm not 10, I'm not
>>>going to try and impress people with my game scores like that's some
>>>kind of real achievement.
>>
>>I could be wrong about this, but if I recall correctly the Rockstar
>>Social Club thing was basically just the mechanism that facilitates
>>multiplayer.  I only played GTV IV multiplayer for a few minutes, but
>>there was a definately a valid MP game and community there.  It was
>>reasonable fun driving around the city and killing each other.
>
>Yeah but I have zero interest in multiplayer in a game like this.
>It's one of the reasons I've played them - they weren't infected with
>multiplayer (which generally means the single player aspect gets
>shortchanged in order to bolt on multiplayer modes.)

Not always, it works both ways.  If you're a player of both, you
really see how some games strive to do both, but get unbalanced on one
side.  Far Cry 3 is an example of a recent MP disappointment.  They
spent a lot of resources trying to compensate for the SP shortcomings
of FC2 and please a wider audience.  In the process, they lost A LOT
of what made the MP mode in FC2 great, sadly enough.  That's just one
example but I see this all the time.  

>>I think you're speaking about the achievements aspect of it, but I
>>think that is more of a side thing than the social club's reason for
>>being.  Most "social" features in MP games use that term because its
>>the current trendy buzzword, and I guess it does apply in some ways,
>>but most of the time social simply means jumping into games with the
>>people you want to be playing with, as opposed to random fucktards
>>that might diminish the fun.
>
>What's wrong with "multiplayer" and "friends list" - in use for the
>better part of 2 decades - that they have to try and redefine "social"
>to mean those?

Some marketing douche thought adding some "social media" tags to his
resume would be a good career move, that's all.

>It was one of the complaints of the "have no achievements in real life"
>set that they couldn't show off their GTA:SA etc achievements.
>
>Doesn't steam also do this?  I know games that have achievements of any
>kind like fallout3 store them on steam to be shown off.

A lot of games have Steam achievements.  You don't have to make them
publicly viewable by others unless you want to.

They are useful in many ways though, not just for showing off.  For
example, in Bioshock Infinite, one of the achievements is basically a
counter of how many voxaphone or kinetoscope locations you've found
(like 15 of 90 or whatever).  This can give you a sense of how much of
the total map you've explored.  Also, in some games the achievements
themselves, how they are worded by the game's designers and when you
get them can sometimes be quite funny.  As I said, not necessarily
just for bragging rights.  I'm sure there are some 10 year olds out
there that see it that way, but I actually see very few young kids in
the multiplayer world.  I don't ask everyone their age, but the
majority of players I encounter are in the 30-60 age group.  Younger
players just can't afford to keep buying new games.  I suspect after
the game has been out for sale longer, and discounted to a much lower
price, they might be able to talk Mommy into typing in a credit card
number, but usually by that time months or years have elapsed and I
have moved on to a different game, so I just don't see them. 

If you play a lot of free to play games, you see a much more immature
user base.

>If those types want that, fine, but I wish they'd stop forcing the rest
>of us to join their club.
>
>Why the fuck do I have to be online with GFWL and this social club in
>order to play the purely local, single player game?
>It's not a "if you want to play multi you have to link to these," it's
>"if you want to play at all," and that's fucking retarded.

I don't know the whole GFWL thing sucks.  If I'm using Steam I don't
want to have to authenticate under another account, and it really
doesn't matter if its GFWL or UPlay or MyCrysis or Blizzardnet or
whatever..  However, my wish is not granted since most games have gone
to this anyway.  I understand their business reasons for doing it.

Rin Stowleigh <rstow...@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails
of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Thu, 28 Mar 2013 04:57:50 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Rin Stowleigh <rstow...@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails
>>of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>>
>>>On Wed, 27 Mar 2013 06:39:24 -0500, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Justisaur <just...@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
>>>>the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>>>>
>>>>>On Feb 21, 7:51�am, Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote:
>>>>>> "Trimble Bracegirdle" <no-s...@never.spam> looked up from reading the
>>>>>> entrails of the porn spammer to utter �"The Augury is good, the signs
>>>>>> say:
>>>>>> <snip>>I've been looking around at what action games are due within a year or so.
>>>>>> >Interesting list "Most Anticipated" here:
>>>>>> >http://www.metacritic.com/feature/video-game-preview-2013
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >Worries that I find very little I look forward to.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >GTA V
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder how many online things you'll have to be connected to to even
>>>>>> _install_ this much less play it.
>>>>>> I have yet to play GTA IV due to the forced connections to "social
>>>>>> clubs" and the like that I have less than zero interest in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Yeesh.  Games for windows and social club, both which I couldn't care
>>>>>less about.
>>>>
>>>>Bingo.  I have no intention of using either of those. GFWL I never had
>>>>interest in and Rockstar Social Club, sorry guys, I'm not 10, I'm not
>>>>going to try and impress people with my game scores like that's some
>>>>kind of real achievement.
>>>
>>>I could be wrong about this, but if I recall correctly the Rockstar
>>>Social Club thing was basically just the mechanism that facilitates
>>>multiplayer.  I only played GTV IV multiplayer for a few minutes, but
>>>there was a definately a valid MP game and community there.  It was
>>>reasonable fun driving around the city and killing each other.
>>
>>Yeah but I have zero interest in multiplayer in a game like this.
>>It's one of the reasons I've played them - they weren't infected with
>>multiplayer (which generally means the single player aspect gets
>>shortchanged in order to bolt on multiplayer modes.)
>
>Not always, it works both ways.  If you're a player of both, you
>really see how some games strive to do both, but get unbalanced on one
>side.  Far Cry 3 is an example of a recent MP disappointment.  They
>spent a lot of resources trying to compensate for the SP shortcomings
>of FC2 and please a wider audience.  In the process, they lost A LOT
>of what made the MP mode in FC2 great, sadly enough.  That's just one
>example but I see this all the time.  

Yeah but I was talking specifically about GTA, which _was_ a single
player game series for most of it's existence and had it (and the
various other forced online links) bolted onto it.

>>>I think you're speaking about the achievements aspect of it, but I
>>>think that is more of a side thing than the social club's reason for
>>>being.  Most "social" features in MP games use that term because its
>>>the current trendy buzzword, and I guess it does apply in some ways,
>>>but most of the time social simply means jumping into games with the
>>>people you want to be playing with, as opposed to random fucktards
>>>that might diminish the fun.
>>
>>What's wrong with "multiplayer" and "friends list" - in use for the
>>better part of 2 decades - that they have to try and redefine "social"
>>to mean those?
>
>Some marketing douche thought adding some "social media" tags to his
>resume would be a good career move, that's all.

Probably.

>>It was one of the complaints of the "have no achievements in real life"
>>set that they couldn't show off their GTA:SA etc achievements.
>>
>>Doesn't steam also do this?  I know games that have achievements of any
>>kind like fallout3 store them on steam to be shown off.
>
>A lot of games have Steam achievements.  You don't have to make them
>publicly viewable by others unless you want to.
>
>They are useful in many ways though, not just for showing off.  For
>example, in Bioshock Infinite, one of the achievements is basically a
>counter of how many voxaphone or kinetoscope locations you've found
>(like 15 of 90 or whatever).  This can give you a sense of how much of
>the total map you've explored.  Also, in some games the achievements
>themselves, how they are worded by the game's designers and when you
>get them can sometimes be quite funny.  As I said, not necessarily
>just for bragging rights.  I'm sure there are some 10 year olds out
>there that see it that way, but I actually see very few young kids in
>the multiplayer world.  I don't ask everyone their age, but the
>majority of players I encounter are in the 30-60 age group.  Younger
>players just can't afford to keep buying new games.  I suspect after
>the game has been out for sale longer, and discounted to a much lower
>price, they might be able to talk Mommy into typing in a credit card
>number, but usually by that time months or years have elapsed and I
>have moved on to a different game, so I just don't see them. 

When I said 10, I wasn't necessarily talking about physically 10 -
there's a lot of people out there with the maturity and intellect of a
10 year old despite being over 20.

>If you play a lot of free to play games, you see a much more immature
>user base.

I've actually seen much much worse in pay MMOs - people with the
vocabulary of an adult, but the maturity and social skills of an 8 year
old bully.

Most kids on the other hand tend to be nice and helpful.

>>If those types want that, fine, but I wish they'd stop forcing the rest
>>of us to join their club.
>>
>>Why the fuck do I have to be online with GFWL and this social club in
>>order to play the purely local, single player game?
>>It's not a "if you want to play multi you have to link to these," it's
>>"if you want to play at all," and that's fucking retarded.
>
>I don't know the whole GFWL thing sucks.  If I'm using Steam I don't
>want to have to authenticate under another account, and it really
>doesn't matter if its GFWL or UPlay or MyCrysis or Blizzardnet or
>whatever..  However, my wish is not granted since most games have gone
>to this anyway.  I understand their business reasons for doing it.

See I don't mind steam that much - it does it's authentication to let me
play whether I'm online or offline - but GWFL I guess does not and this
retarded social club certainly did not.

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of 
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, 
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So 
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr