🚀 go-pugleaf

Jon wrote:

> So I guess the questions I have are as follows:
> (1)Could a carrier beat a battlecruiser in a one-on-one battle? And
> how?

Possibly... We have tested the theory, I don't recall the result though.

> (2)Could any unit outrun a charging yamato gun? More specifically,
> could a carrier? If so, what is the difference between moving the
> carrier away, and using an ability, such as recall, to transport the
> unit away.


 From what I recall, moving doesn't have any effect once the yamato 
canon starts charging, the game mechanics will guide the shot to its 
target regardless of position. I'm not sure if that's still the case if 
you use  something like recall or the canals.

"Spyderizer" <n...@spam.com> wrote in message 
news:f2h88r$7c4$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> From what I recall, moving doesn't have any effect once the yamato canon 
> starts charging, the game mechanics will guide the shot to its target 
> regardless of position. I'm not sure if that's still the case if you use 
> something like recall or the canals.

Pfft!  I wouldn't consider recall as a viable strategy for evading yamato 
unless you had OverWind micro skills.

Besides - such a test would be easy to setup.

Interceptors will not engage if a carrier is given a flee command.

And BCs are stronger than Carriers - but the carrier itself has to be 
targets.  If the BC fucks around and shoots the interceptors while the other 
player churns out more of them then he is hosed.   . . . Um . . IIRC.

It would be easy to setup a test.

So someone less lazy than me go do it

--
LTP

:) 

On May 17, 7:51 am, "Luc The Perverse"
<sll_noSpamli...@cc.usu.edu> wrote:
> "Spyderizer" <n....@spam.com> wrote in message
>
> news:f2h88r$7c4$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
>
> > From what I recall, moving doesn't have any effect once the yamato canon
> > starts charging, the game mechanics will guide the shot to its target
> > regardless of position. I'm not sure if that's still the case if you use
> > something like recall or the canals.
>
> Pfft!  I wouldn't consider recall as a viable strategy for evading yamato
> unless you had OverWind micro skills.
>
> Besides - such a test would be easy to setup.
>
> Interceptors will not engage if a carrier is given a flee command.
>
> And BCs are stronger than Carriers - but the carrier itself has to be
> targets.  If the BC fucks around and shoots the interceptors while the other
> player churns out more of them then he is hosed.   . . . Um . . IIRC.
>
> It would be easy to setup a test.
>
> So someone less lazy than me go do it
>
> --
> LTP
>
> :)

Thanks guys.
That's pretty much what I thought the result would be.
Unfortunately, the only time we tested BC vs. Car was a direct
assault, during which the BC would obviously win.
My friend is not available to test his hit-and-run theory. If he does
in fact have such awesome control.

"Jon" <dini...@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1179453466.827935.227160@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> It would be easy to setup a test.
>> So someone less lazy than me go do it
> Thanks guys.
> That's pretty much what I thought the result would be.
> Unfortunately, the only time we tested BC vs. Car was a direct
> assault, during which the BC would obviously win.
> My friend is not available to test his hit-and-run theory. If he does
> in fact have such awesome control.

Unless you guys are playing BGH!!nr20mins - it shouldn't be "just carriers 
on BCs".  There should be some support units, Ghosts, High Templars, Science 
Vessel - maybe a shield battery etc.

Usually if I am making a carrier fleet - I will have one or two shield 
batteries to run back to for recharging purposes.  (Of course I usually lose 
too - so what do I know.)

I made a test map once where you have a number of rounds in which you are 
greatly outnumbered for firepower, but you had a series of caster units that 
you could use to defend and attack with.  (A sort of 1 player micro practice 
map.)

I practiced things like lockdown - but some of the most amazing results came 
from doing weird stuff, like putting a defensive matrix on a pair of 
firebats - stim packing them and then having them take hits while marines 
pwned lings.

--
LTP

:) 

IN TEH PALECE KNOWEN AS alt.games.starcraft, TEH FAGGORTER Jon
<dini...@gmail.com> DUMPED HIS GHEYE SHIET ON MY COMPUTAR
SCREEN!!!!:
>So I guess the questions I have are as follows:
>(1)Could a carrier beat a battlecruiser in a one-on-one battle? And
>how?

Possibly, though I'm not going to bet any money on it in a 1v1
situation only.

But yes, in a multiple unit engagement, doing hit & run on the BCs is
key. Carriers do outrange the normal BC laser with their interceptor
attack, and they move  a good deal faster, so technically you should
be able to keep yourself at the edge of their range.
 Mind you OTOH that all the terran needs to do in that situation is to
select BCs in pairs and Yamato the crap out of your force, so you
really need to be careful how you play your approaches - Don't want
half your units nuked out immediately.

 But BC Vs. Carriers _only_ is a scenario that's not very likely to
come up in a real game anyway.


>(2)Could any unit outrun a charging yamato gun? More specifically,
>could a carrier? If so, what is the difference between moving the
>carrier away, and using an ability, such as recall, to transport the
>unit away.

Once the BC starts charging up the Yamato cannon, it should be a
guaranteed hit, no matter where the unit runs off to. No idea about
the recall, though.

"Jon" <dini...@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1179387227.008384.71360@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> So I guess the questions I have are as follows:
> (1)Could a carrier beat a battlecruiser in a one-on-one battle? And
> how?

    Generally, no.  You can try to get the interceptors to attack the battle 
cruiser and then fly to the perimeter of the cruiser's attack range but the 
carrier is no faster than it so, if both are micromanaged, the cruiser would 
just chase the carrier and ensure that it's within attacking range...
    I would hope this goes without saying but I guess I'll mention it, 
anyways.  Against most types of units, the carrier has more damage 
throughput than the battle cruiser so, in many ways, it's a more powerful 
unit.  However, it doesn't do as well against heavily armoured units as the 
battle cruiser does...


> (2)Could any unit outrun a charging yamato gun? More specifically,
> could a carrier? If so, what is the difference between moving the
> carrier away, and using an ability, such as recall, to transport the
> unit away.

    I'm surprised more people don't know about this.
    No unit can "outrun" a yamato gun.  Once the yamato gun has been cast on 
a unit, it will get hit, regardless of where it is.  Even if you were to 
recall the unit across the entire map, the shot will just traverse the 
entire map to hit it...

On May 24, 1:24 pm, "Just Another Victim of the Ambient Morality"
<i_hat...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Jon" <dini...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1179387227.008384.71360@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > So I guess the questions I have are as follows:
> > (1)Could a carrier beat a battlecruiser in a one-on-one battle? And
> > how?
>
>     Generally, no.  You can try to get the interceptors to attack the battle
> cruiser and then fly to the perimeter of the cruiser's attack range but the
> carrier is no faster than it so, if both are micromanaged, the cruiser would
> just chase the carrier and ensure that it's within attacking range...
>     I would hope this goes without saying but I guess I'll mention it,
> anyways.  Against most types of units, the carrier has more damage
> throughput than the battle cruiser so, in many ways, it's a more powerful
> unit.  However, it doesn't do as well against heavily armoured units as the
> battle cruiser does...
>
> > (2)Could any unit outrun a charging yamato gun? More specifically,
> > could a carrier? If so, what is the difference between moving the
> > carrier away, and using an ability, such as recall, to transport the
> > unit away.
>
>     I'm surprised more people don't know about this.
>     No unit can "outrun" a yamato gun.  Once the yamato gun has been cast on
> a unit, it will get hit, regardless of where it is.  Even if you were to
> recall the unit across the entire map, the shot will just traverse the
> entire map to hit it...

Wow. I didn't know that. Thanks.

IN TEH PALECE KNOWEN AS alt.games.starcraft, TEH FAGGORTER "Just
Another Victim of the Ambient Morality" <i_hat...@hotmail.com>
DUMPED HIS GHEYE SHIET ON MY COMPUTAR SCREEN!!!!:
>
>> So I guess the questions I have are as follows:
>> (1)Could a carrier beat a battlecruiser in a one-on-one battle? And
>> how?
>
>    Generally, no.  You can try to get the interceptors to attack the battle 
>cruiser and then fly to the perimeter of the cruiser's attack range but the 
>carrier is no faster than it so, if both are micromanaged, the cruiser would 
>just chase the carrier and ensure that it's within attacking range...

Actually, the Carrier is a good 30-50% or so faster than the BC and
has better acceleration. It can outrun the BC easily.

"MuuMiMan" <ihatespamandyoumustremov...@mbnet.fi> wrote 
in message news:rahe5399ea2sid2rf2cqt1jq089p9h271u@4ax.com...
> IN TEH PALECE KNOWEN AS alt.games.starcraft, TEH FAGGORTER "Just
> Another Victim of the Ambient Morality" <i_hat...@hotmail.com>
> DUMPED HIS GHEYE SHIET ON MY COMPUTAR SCREEN!!!!:
>>
>>> So I guess the questions I have are as follows:
>>> (1)Could a carrier beat a battlecruiser in a one-on-one battle? And
>>> how?
>>
>>    Generally, no.  You can try to get the interceptors to attack the 
>> battle
>>cruiser and then fly to the perimeter of the cruiser's attack range but 
>>the
>>carrier is no faster than it so, if both are micromanaged, the cruiser 
>>would
>>just chase the carrier and ensure that it's within attacking range...
>
> Actually, the Carrier is a good 30-50% or so faster than the BC and
> has better acceleration. It can outrun the BC easily.
>

But . . . It cannot acquire targets while moving - and it has an insanely 
high interceptor deploy time - so you wouldn't be able to do anything like 
the vulture run and shoot.   If you are just trying to run away then it 
would be fine - but it seems useless for micromanaging a battle

--
LTP

:) 

"Just Another Victim of the Ambient Morality" <i_hat...@hotmail.com> 
wrote in message news:fwm5i.561672$c62.57727@fe07.news.easynews.com...
>> (2)Could any unit outrun a charging yamato gun? More specifically,
>> could a carrier? If so, what is the difference between moving the
>> carrier away, and using an ability, such as recall, to transport the
>> unit away.
>
>    I'm surprised more people don't know about this.
>    No unit can "outrun" a yamato gun.  Once the yamato gun has been cast 
> on a unit, it will get hit, regardless of where it is.  Even if you were 
> to recall the unit across the entire map, the shot will just traverse the 
> entire map to hit it...

It's kinda like trying to advance your pawn two spaces to escape capture 
from an enemy pawn.  You just can't do it!

However - this thread was kinda pissing me off - so I decided to do some 
tests with Carrier versus BC to find out.

I found out that a fully upgraded carrier can be defeated by an unupgraded 
BC (with Yamato gun) if properly micromanaged.  The secret is to deploy the 
yamato after the shields of the carrier are depleted.  After I realized 
that - making further comparisons seemed a little silly.

I have sent a copy of my report and some extended notes to Overwind to add 
to his SC site - if he decides they are good enough.  (We tried to post the 
file I sent him directly - but until further notice we are having technical 
difficulties)

--
LTP

:) 

IN TEH PALECE KNOWEN AS alt.games.starcraft, TEH FAGGORTER "Luc The
Perverse" <sll_noSpamli...@cc.usu.edu> DUMPED HIS GHEYE
SHIET ON MY COMPUTAR SCREEN!!!!:
>"MuuMiMan" <ihatespamandyoumustremov...@mbnet.fi> wrote 
>in message news:rahe5399ea2sid2rf2cqt1jq089p9h271u@4ax.com...
>> Actually, the Carrier is a good 30-50% or so faster than the BC and
>> has better acceleration. It can outrun the BC easily.
>>
>
>But . . . It cannot acquire targets while moving -

You first attack-move to get the interceptors out, then use move
commands on the carrier, and the interceptors will still stay out
(unless you target something specifically and that target dies, or hit
stop) and attack. Of course, you can't do concentrated fire, but you
can run & shoot.

> and it has an insanely 
>high interceptor deploy time - so you wouldn't be able to do anything like 
>the vulture run and shoot.   If you are just trying to run away then it 
>would be fine - but it seems useless for micromanaging a battle

It seems useless because you suck at Carriers.

But BC Vs. Carrier is not a fight you'd see in a real game anyway.