🚀 go-pugleaf

On Wed, 8 May 2002 19:01:27 -0500, Bradley Poe <bp...@prairienet.org>
wrote:

>>I think there are a few thing in the blurb that bear repeating
>>anyway, and besides....not all of us can download the thing.  :)

My point in taken...

>>The Bad News:
>>
>>--The initial character count is at 24 characters, which means that a
>>*lot* of both character cloning (one ninja for evey color of the rainbow,
>>for instance) and/or style cloning is likely.

Don't know this for a fact... I have heard of others from the rest of
the MK games coming back such as Kabal...

>>--And the Biggest Bad News of all:  No indication that MK:DA is going to
>>hit the arcades, where people can play the thing with a *REAL* controller.
>>Sony's standard digital Four Chiclets of Death bug the piss out of me...
>>it's possibly the *worst* single example of a crappy standard issue
>>controller I've ever seen (a $200 system deserves *better*, I don't care
>>if it *is* a DVD player).  Which means no MK for me this time out ;_( .
>>It's a shame too....the only modern fighting game in the arcades where
>>I live is Tekken or Marvel Vs. Crap.  I am sick to *death* of random
>>button-mashing bullshit that *looks* pretty and yet is broken with 
>>regard to either certain characters in two-player or certain new game
>>features.

This game was never made for the arcades... Boon said that before even
making the game cause he knows and Midway knows that the Arcade scene
is dead... And he can do 100% more with a playstation than arcade
mother board...

>>--Cyrax is back.  'Nuff Said.

Cyrax is still kewl...

>>--Did I already mention that MK:DA isn't headed to the arcades, and that
>>it's coming out on the one system with a total piece of shit controller...
>>ooops, I already did, sorry.

One system... Umm... It's been announced for all the systems...

Midway stopped making arcade games atleast over a year ago...where have you
been? Why don't you keep up with the fan sites...suck as trmk.net  and
mk5.org.

I highly doubt cloning characters will happen is this game. Even though this
game has 24 characters....more than half will be new.

Also, why are you bitching about not having a joystick? Doesn't sony have
one of the best arcade style sticks out? And I know I've seen a kick ass
arcade stick for Xbox.

As far as the full 3d game experience...this is true. I guess you'll have to
wait for your own proff when E3 is covered in 2 weeks by a few of the fan
sites.

"Gumbo ..." <Gu...@mkx.org> wrote in message
news:g4hjduskki9qfpobjk8nulsn91ohg7e08r@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 8 May 2002 19:01:27 -0500, Bradley Poe <bp...@prairienet.org>
> wrote:
>
> >>I think there are a few thing in the blurb that bear repeating
> >>anyway, and besides....not all of us can download the thing.  :)
>
> My point in taken...
>
> >>The Bad News:
> >>
> >>--The initial character count is at 24 characters, which means that a
> >>*lot* of both character cloning (one ninja for evey color of the
rainbow,
> >>for instance) and/or style cloning is likely.
>
> Don't know this for a fact... I have heard of others from the rest of
> the MK games coming back such as Kabal...
>
> >>--And the Biggest Bad News of all:  No indication that MK:DA is going to
> >>hit the arcades, where people can play the thing with a *REAL*
controller.
> >>Sony's standard digital Four Chiclets of Death bug the piss out of me...
> >>it's possibly the *worst* single example of a crappy standard issue
> >>controller I've ever seen (a $200 system deserves *better*, I don't care
> >>if it *is* a DVD player).  Which means no MK for me this time out ;_( .
> >>It's a shame too....the only modern fighting game in the arcades where
> >>I live is Tekken or Marvel Vs. Crap.  I am sick to *death* of random
> >>button-mashing bullshit that *looks* pretty and yet is broken with
> >>regard to either certain characters in two-player or certain new game
> >>features.
>
> This game was never made for the arcades... Boon said that before even
> making the game cause he knows and Midway knows that the Arcade scene
> is dead... And he can do 100% more with a playstation than arcade
> mother board...
>
> >>--Cyrax is back.  'Nuff Said.
>
> Cyrax is still kewl...
>
> >>--Did I already mention that MK:DA isn't headed to the arcades, and that
> >>it's coming out on the one system with a total piece of shit
controller...
> >>ooops, I already did, sorry.
>
> One system... Umm... It's been announced for all the systems...

> The Good News:
>
> --The Run button is *history*, and has left the building according
> to the programmers.

Now if they'd just get rid of the Block button...

> --The tone of the game is supposed to be darker and more serious, like
> the first two games...so no Babalities, Friendships, or silly stuff.

No repeat fatalities, either. All the fatals will be original and new.
No more rehashes.

> The Bad News:
>
> --The initial character count is at 24 characters, which means that a
> *lot* of both character cloning (one ninja for evey color of the rainbow,
> for instance) and/or style cloning is likely.

Nope. The textures for the Ninjas outfits vary enough in detail that
swapping is actually unlikely.

> --So far it seems that there are no new bosses.  The Deadly Alliance in
> the game is between Shang Tsung and Quan Chi.

There's a boss. One of the characters has a demon form that so far
is being called the "Oni-Tormentor" or some shit like that...

> --Some of the character models still look dorky (Jax?  Shang Tsung?).

Jax looks like a rube. Shang Tsung looks really good and those robes
flowing in the wind will look pretty damn cool.

> --Ed Boon and company are promising us full-3-D again.  I don't know
> whether I should root for them in terms of having them deliver on that
> promise or not....

It's got full 3D movement just like Soul Calibur.

> --And the Biggest Bad News of all:  No indication that MK:DA is going to
> hit the arcades, where people can play the thing with a *REAL* controller.

Arcades are dead. Midway's arcade division is history and we should
be glad that MK DA isn't going to the arcades because the cost of the
hardware and software would be through the roof and many arcades
wouldn't be able to afford it. There's no money to be made in arcades
anymore since the home systems are more sophisticated powerful than the
arcade hardware.

> --No projectiles in the early screens.  It would be our luck that Boon
> and company would try *so hard* this time to get the hand-to-hand done
> right, only to have the tossed-in-at-the-last-freakin'-minute projectiles
> *ruin* the game.

Very little projectiles and classic special moves will be in the game.
Scorpion has his spear, but I doubt Raiden will have his torpedo push.

> --Did I already mention that MK:DA isn't headed to the arcades, and that
> it's coming out on the one system with a total piece of shit controller...
> ooops, I already did, sorry.

It's coming for Gamecube, PS2, XBox, and GameBoy Advance.
I'd like to see them do a PC version, too.

-BH-

Hey,

Okay, I admit I've been under a *rock* for the past few months.
I've been having to deal with some obsessions, some things that
aren't quite *healthy*, let's just put it that way.  ;)  I mean,
anything that a) keeps me from playing video games and b) makes
me forget about Midway's (chickenshit) withdrawal from the arcade
scene isn't a good thing.

Nonetheless, thanks for the kind words so far, I'm impressed that
alt.games.mk *can* be merciful to the clueless on occasion.

Anyway, I admit I *do* have my biases.  I've been an old-school,
arcade rat since *pong*.  I can't help it, there is just something
about the *social* element of *going out* to play games that you
*can't* get at home.  Yeah, I understand the *online* games are
supposed to make up for that somewhat, but only if you're willing
to shell out the *bucks* for it (extra hardware for PS2, broadband
costs for XBox, etc, etc....).  And as for arcades being dead...

Two simple points: 1) Go to rec.games.video.arcade.  One of their
threads deals with the subject and somebody brought up in that
very thread that arcades, on average in the USA, have had their
*profits* rise by 17%.  So it's not *all* about people going broke
folks.

2) If the scene *is* dead, I blame *everyone*.  Let me explain:

   a) Maybe it would *help* if programmers didn't approach the writing
and making of arcade games as something of a way to *use* people.
Between the dumbing-down of games into button-scrubbing madness, and the
too-frequent use of Nazi Code to force players to *pump* in more tokens/
quarters, it's a wonder folks still play at all.  (by Nazi Code, I simply
mean, the way some games will just *take control away* from you beyond
a certain point....in fighting games, suddenly you can't *attack* anymore
or block anymore or *move* anymore because the computer *always* hits
first)  And Never Mind that some games have *worse* graphics in the
arcade than they do at home (thanks a *lot* Namco).
   b)  It would also help if Arcade Operators weren't so flagrantly lazy
and rude and unprofessional.  Lazy....they're hardly ever around and when
they are they act like it's *such* an imposition to check out a frozen
game or to make sure the change machine works.  Rude....there are no
smiles on the other side of the fence, only lots of "no, that's just
the way it is," or just flat-out walking away grumbling from *customers*.
Unprofessional...aside from being snarly and impolite and full of
attitude with their bread-and-butter gamers, when was the last time
you saw an arcade operator with the techincal skill to either *know*
how a video game *should* play, or more importantly, to *know* how to
fix things *on the spot* when they go wrong?  Last time I checked, it
was *over a decade ago*.
   c)  It would *really* help too if Gamers *cared* enough not to put
up with the bullshit.  I'm as guilty of this as anyone, either just
putting up with problems because I know they'll never be fixed and that
I need my gameplay fix *now*.  Or just trying my best to be cheap and
stay home when I *do* have the time and money to invest in a home system.
Neither one works well when it comes to giving a business *constructive*
feedback that might make it better.

Ahh, sorry about the rant.  I just get so tired of people saying "arcades
are dead" and *not* admitting that they were a party to the act of
*killing* them.  I mean, maybe once Sony and Microsoft *both* ruin online
play for people, the desire for a social element in gaming will return and
arcades will come back.  And note, this isn't the same as a desire for
competition necessarily.  I personally can't stand the uber-cutthroat
mentality that gets into some people when they are near a fighting game.
These days, I don't even bother talking to some folks, if they want to
intrude on my current game I'll just pick up my quarters and *leave*.
Why?  Because some folks just *don't* understand how frustrating it is
to *lose* over and over again, not because of any skill difference,
but because a game is *that* imbalanced, or a bit of collision detection
is *that* messed up.  ;)  But I digress.  Point is, there's your Nazi
Code at work again.

Back to Mortal Freakin' Kombat (finally!).

Some of the comments are interesting....

Okay, so it's coming out on all systems.  That's cool enough, I mean
the EGM article I saw was for the PS2 version but if there are others
I can sort of deal with it.  I mean, I don't particularly *like* any
of the current batch of systems out there, but the standard digital 
pad for Sony systems (both PS1 and PS2) drives me crazy.  And I don't
want to pay *double* the software price for Mortal Kombat just to
get a controller that doesn't drive me nuts.  :)

As for the apparent *lack* of projectiles.....don't bet on it.
I mean, what would Sub-Zero be without being able to *freeze*
folks?  And one of the pics *clearly* shows Cyrax being back.
Mister Net-and-Bombs.  It's a puzzle for sure.  On the one hand,
not too many folks *have* made a full-3-D game where there were
projectiles and they were done *right*.  And it really *is* about
damned time Midway focused on the hand-to-hand and took a bit
away from the Freaky Fireball contest.  But....

Distance attacks are a *part* of the game and an *integral* part of
some *characters*.  I don't see how it could be Mortal Kombat without
them.  My educated guess on this is....either they will be added at 
the last minute (on the presumption that the programmers know what
they are doing with the distance game and so it gets less time/priority),
or when they are added, they will be super-rare and super-damaging
attacks (that is, when Sub-Zero finally *does* freeze/uppercut you,
it *kills* you).

As for getting rid of the Block button.....not likely.  If the game
is to be full-3-D in the manner of Soul Calibur, then assigning blocking
to the directional controls would *seriously* hinder movement.  In a
game where the x-z *plane* is in active play mobility *matters*, it
matters more than *guarding* does in Soul Calibur because some of the
moves *are* unblockable and *must* be avoided.  And that might also
be a possibility with MK:DA too, not just from the projectiles angle
but also from the *throw* angle too.  I'm just wondering how Midway
is going to fit in their jump and juggle physics into the game (if 
they're going to do it at *all*).

What I'd like to see (though it's not going to happen, it would make
the game too hard), is something along the lines of a twitch defense.

Where say, you have a *parry* that is good for a single *hit* of defense
against most moves....then you have a reversal/counter button where
the Block button would be, and you could counter or reverse most moves
in the manner of Dead or Alive....in other words, make defense depend
more on *zoning* and timing, that's classic, old-school Mortal Kombat
right there.

And....if you wanted to make it easier, the method folds right into
Midway's plan to give characters multiple fighting styles...since
all you have to do is give each character *one* (at least) Defensive
Style where some degree of *autoguard* is present, say against most
high or mid hitting attacks.....With multiple stances and styles at
Midway's disposal, they could create the first ever fighting game to
go *totally* into *dynamic defense*, where instead of just *holding*
a static block all day, one would have to *always* pay attention to
the spacing and timing of attacks.  It could work.  Hell, if what I'm
hearing is correct, it *does* work already, to some degree, in VF4.

Point is, MK:DA has the potential to do something Mortal Kombat hasn't
done since the *first* one:  it has the potential to kick ass and take
some *names*.

It's just a pity it will only do so on home consoles.

Brad Poe

Quote from Baby Bonnie Hood (aka Bulleta), Big Bad Wolf
Attack Victim and enthusiastic Supporter of the Right to Bear
Arms:  "I'll be nice and happy after I kill everything in
this world."

Although I agree with most of this message, my comments to what I disagree 
with are below.

This is in reference to article 
<Pine.GSO.4.10.102050...@bluestem.prairienet.org>, in which a 
one Bradley Poe <bp...@prairienet.org> wrote:
>
> 
> The Good News:
> 
> --The Run button is *history*, and has left the building according
> to the programmers.

Some of us LIKE the run button...

> --Weapons, both hand-to-hand ones (which are treated as separate styles),
> and tossables (like skulls and such) will be in the game, as they were
> in MK4.

and dislike the weapons.  The Ice Scepter kind of makes Sub-Zero's powers, 
well, pointless since anyone who grabs that weapon has his power to freeze 
people.  Also, there's the fact that people get stuck with weapons that don't 
really fit them but they need to be assigned *something* since everyone else 
has them.

Although if done properly... ie, Kitana's Weapons = her fans, Kung Lao's = his 
hat, Baraka = his blades... it can make the next MK game truly unique.  It 
might be difficult for the programmers (I understand it's not Boon?) to do, 
but I think it would be well worth the effort required.

> --The initial character count is at 24 characters, which means that a
> *lot* of both character cloning (one ninja for evey color of the rainbow,
> for instance) and/or style cloning is likely.

I understand there's no point to doing that in a 3-D game, as it won't save 
any space or memory as it would with sprites.  So the odds of this happening 
are slim to none :)

> --So far it seems that there are no new bosses.  The Deadly Alliance in
> the game is between Shang Tsung and Quan Chi.

Is that really such a bad thing?  I think it's actually a good thing for 
the plot that the 'underdogs' have moved up.  It makes more sense than 
"Another evil ruler tries to take over Earth".

Maybe if Liu Kang's body were to be taken over by bad guys or evil spirits, he 
could make a great end boss.  Maybe for MK6 ;)

> --Mint-Zero, ermm....a female Sub-Zero character is in the game. ;) 
> Which means they *can't* make the male Sub-Zero hit like a *girl* anymore.
> Game balance is at risk.  :">

They said back in MK: Mythologies that she had a sister...you KNEW they would 
put her in eventually.

> --And the Biggest Bad News of all:  No indication that MK:DA is going to
> hit the arcades, where people can play the thing with a *REAL* controller.
> Sony's standard digital Four Chiclets of Death bug the piss out of me...
> it's possibly the *worst* single example of a crappy standard issue
> controller I've ever seen (a $200 system deserves *better*, I don't care
> if it *is* a DVD player).  Which means no MK for me this time out ;_( .
> It's a shame too....the only modern fighting game in the arcades where
> I live is Tekken or Marvel Vs. Crap.  I am sick to *death* of random
> button-mashing bullshit that *looks* pretty and yet is broken with 
> regard to either certain characters in two-player or certain new game
> features.

Well get a different controller than the one packaged with the system!
They do make them, you know.

http://tabmok99.mk5.org/horistick.jpg

That's what I use for PC gaming :)  Works great for MK/SF/etc.

> --No projectiles in the early screens.  It would be our luck that Boon
> and company would try *so hard* this time to get the hand-to-hand done
> right, only to have the tossed-in-at-the-last-freakin'-minute projectiles
> *ruin* the game.

I would hope that they have fireballs planned from the start.  Without 
fireballs it just wouldn't be MK.

> --Did I already mention that MK:DA isn't headed to the arcades, and that
> it's coming out on the one system with a total piece of shit controller...
> ooops, I already did, sorry.

Visit www.buyrite1.com or www.lan-kwei.com and pick up whatever kind of 
controller you want for any system.  You can even use PSX controllers on a 
GameCube, XBox, or PC, so pick out a really nice arcade joystick for PSX and 
play on it with all your consoles :)

> P.S. Yep, I *am* better at Virtua Fighter than I am at MK...but I'll
> be the *first and ONLY* one to admit that Sega owes Midway big time,
> for using a tap-and-chord engine to get VF started.  Whose idea was that?
> Boon and Tobias's.  :)

My girlfriend loves Virtua Fighter IV, haven't played it yet myself...
I'll let everyone know my thoughts on MK:DA when I come back from E3.

-- 
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This is in reference to article 
<yRkC8.68676$9F5.3...@typhoon.austin.rr.com>, in which a one "JRF" 
<jrf...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Also, why are you bitching about not having a joystick? Doesn't sony have
> one of the best arcade style sticks out? 

This is a good point, and with adapters easily found online you can use that 
very PSX joystick on any of the latest systems (PS2, XBox, GameCube, 
DreamCast, and PC).

-- 
_|    _|  _|_|_|  Visit the Kombat Pavilion today.
_|  _|    _|  _|  http://www.mk5.org/tabmok99/
_|_|      _|_|_|
_|  _|    _|      Change "Blahoo" to "Yahoo"
_|    _|  _|      To reply via e-mail.