🚀 go-pugleaf

Alaska (ff...@aurora.alaska.edu) wrote:

: My brother went looking for a joystick to use with DESCENT because he
: hated the mouse and keyboard setups. I told him to look for one with
: analog capability because I seemed to remember reading in this newsgroup
: that analog would work better with a game like DESCENT. I still don't know
: if that true, anyone want to clarify?

All PC joysticks are analog. Only the gamepad things are digital.

: Anyway so he went down to Sam's wharehouse and bought a Gravis Mousestick
: II analog FOR ONLY $30! From all I can tell this thing works perfectly.
: It's smooth, fast, I can't really see much wrong with it and the price
: can't be beat. I tried it for a while myself and used the
: keyboard/joystick combination and it worked quite well. I used the
: keyboard for strafing, accelerating, etc. and used the joystick for
: spinning, firing primary and secondary, and tilt forward and backwards.

There are actually cheaper joysticks that work just fine. I suspect the
Mousestick is just a well-made standard joystick.

: I have to say it really worked well. I'm not sure if I'm as proficient at
: it yet as I am with the mouse but it's close. Furthermore it seems to
: avoid some of the problems with the mouse. I find that I tend to "spin
: out" often with the mouse. I don't know why this happens but it's
: disconcerting. This doesn't happen with the MouseStick II. You turn to the
: left and it turns, smooth and even. I like this quality a lot.

Welcome to the wonderful world of PC joysticks.

: So for those of you who are looking for a cheap but good joystick to use
: with the game I guess I would recommend the MouseStick II. It seems to
: have done the trick for us.

I would have recommended a Logitech Wingman. It cost about the same amount
and has a throttle control. It is shaped more like an aircraft's joystick.


Spam-235 / John Williams / say...@tcet.unt.edu
"But if there's no Silicon Hell, where do all the Macintoshes go?"

*Matt "iD rather be playing DooM" Sayler* wrote about *Re: Good, cheap
joystick works well with DESCENT*:

> Alaska (ff...@aurora.alaska.edu) wrote:
> 
> : My brother went looking for a joystick to use with DESCENT because he
> : hated the mouse and keyboard setups. I told him to look for one with
> : analog capability because I seemed to remember reading in this
> newsgroup
> : that analog would work better with a game like DESCENT. I still don't
> know
> : if that true, anyone want to clarify?
> 
> All PC joysticks are analog. Only the gamepad things are digital.

Not completely true.
There are digital sticks out also, such as the Competition Pro.
I had to search thru the whole city of Munich to find one. It is
perfect for jump-and-run, shoot-em-up and C64 emulator games.

  =========== // ============================================================
             //     Doom * Laserdiscs * Fiction * Role-Playing * Horror
   regards, //  -----------------------------------------------------------
           //                  Andreas "Goonie" Schildbach
          //  email schi...@informatik.tu-muenchen.de, phone +49-8151-290288
      \ //     -----------------------------------------------------------
       /          Commodore Amiga * Rollercoasters * Cthulhu * Trance
  ===========================================================================

Andreas Schildbach (schi...@informatik.tu-muenchen.de) wrote:
: *Matt "iD rather be playing DooM" Sayler* wrote about *Re: Good, cheap
: joystick works well with DESCENT*:

: > Alaska (ff...@aurora.alaska.edu) wrote:
: > 
: > : My brother went looking for a joystick to use with DESCENT because he
: > : hated the mouse and keyboard setups. I told him to look for one with
: > : analog capability because I seemed to remember reading in this
: > newsgroup
: > : that analog would work better with a game like DESCENT. I still don't
: > know
: > : if that true, anyone want to clarify?
: > 
: > All PC joysticks are analog. Only the gamepad things are digital.

: Not completely true.
: There are digital sticks out also, such as the Competition Pro.
: I had to search thru the whole city of Munich to find one. It is
: perfect for jump-and-run, shoot-em-up and C64 emulator games.

To clarify this a bit (I reworked my old C64 competition pro to work as a
PC joystick) - You need a bit of electronics (two transistors and a couple
of resistors) to convert the digital signal of the joystick (on/off) to
an analog signal. The drawback is of course that you have only one value
in each direction (forward and not forward, no values in between).
Very cheap PC joysticks work that way.

Arno

--
Arno Schaefer - Technische Hochschule Darmstadt, Fachbereich Informatik
scha...@rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de
The nice thing about Windows is - It does not just crash, it displays a
dialog box and lets you press 'OK' first.

ff...@aurora.alaska.edu (Alaska) writes:

> [...]
>I have to say it really worked well. I'm not sure if I'm as proficient at
>it yet as I am with the mouse but it's close. Furthermore it seems to
>avoid some of the problems with the mouse. I find that I tend to "spin
>out" often with the mouse. I don't know why this happens but it's
>disconcerting. 

I have also had problems with mouse--tend to "overshoot" while
turning. The fact is, usually PC mice are "accelerated", i.e. the effect
of the movement--displacement of the pointer on the screen or turn of the
ship--depends not only on how far you move the mouse, but also on
how *fast* you move it. With fast movement, the effect is greater. So in 
critical moments you move the mouse faster than usual, and the effect is 
greater than you expect. I turned off acceleration, and it helped! 
(Look up the mouse driver's docs for the info of how to turn acceleration 
off. For MS Mouse driver, run mousemgr.exe and choose "Unaccelerated").

--VB

*Arno Schaefer* wrote about *Re: Good, cheap joystick works well with
DESCENT*: 

> : There are digital sticks out also, such as the Competition Pro.
> : I had to search thru the whole city of Munich to find one. It is
> : perfect for jump-and-run, shoot-em-up and C64 emulator games.
> 
> To clarify this a bit (I reworked my old C64 competition pro to work as a
> PC joystick) - You need a bit of electronics (two transistors and a couple
> of resistors) to convert the digital signal of the joystick (on/off) to
> an analog signal. The drawback is of course that you have only one value
> in each direction (forward and not forward, no values in between).
> Very cheap PC joysticks work that way.

Yes, you are right.

But I think for most people it is easy to buy the PC version of
the Competition Pro that has this logic built in. Also, you have two
different fire buttons that can toggle different actions. Old Competi-
tion Pro's don't do this.


  =========== // ============================================================
             //     Doom * Laserdiscs * Fiction * Role-Playing * Horror
   regards, //  -----------------------------------------------------------
           //                  Andreas "Goonie" Schildbach
          //  email schi...@informatik.tu-muenchen.de, phone +49-8151-290288
      \ //     -----------------------------------------------------------
       /          Commodore Amiga * Rollercoasters * Cthulhu * Trance
  ===========================================================================

In article <3e95mo$h...@nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca>, vt...@uoguelph.ca (Vincent
Tan) wrote:

> What I want to know from all you joystick/keyboard combo enthusiasts, is 
> how in the world do you control the joystick properly with only one 
> hand!?! Whenever *I* use a joystick I need *both* hands. One for control 
> and the other to steady the silly thing so that it doesn't flop over.

Ah yes we had this problem in the beginning. I don't know about some of
the other sticks out there but for the Mousestick II I have the solution.
There is a huge round dial on the bottom of the base of the unit. Spin it
in one direction and it tightens the stick, the other direction loosens
it. Once you get it loose enough you can pull the stick back without
having the base come off the table. 

If this is not an option on your joystick then I suggest it's time to pull
out some really sticky tape and attach the thing physically.

Clint

In article <3e95mo$h...@nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca>,
vt...@uoguelph.ca (Vincent Tan) wrote:
> What I want to know from all you joystick/keyboard combo enthusiasts, is
> how in the world do you control the joystick properly with only one
> hand!?! Whenever *I* use a joystick I need *both* hands. One for control
> and the other to steady the silly thing so that it doesn't flop over.

That's what the big base on the higher quality joysticks is for (e.g., CH
Flightstick, Flightstick Pro, Logitech Wingman, Wingman Extreme,
Thrustmaster FSC Mark II).  Given enough desk space, I have absolutely no
problems controlling a joystick w/ one hand.  This is especially true w/
the Wingman Extreme - it has a metal base (as does the Mark II) making it
quite heavy.

Another option would be buying one of those upside down t-shaped stands
that you mountyour joystick on top (via velcro) and place the t-shaped part
between your thigh and your chair.  It's supposed to keep the joystick from
moving as well, but, from looking at it, I would think it'd be ackward when
standing up.

>
> Just curious.
>
> Vince
> (A mouse/keyboard combo user)

You use a mouse while playing games like Doom?


-------------------------------------
Marcos D. Villaroman
mar...@netcom.com
--
Marcos Villaroman
mar...@netcom.com

What I want to know from all you joystick/keyboard combo enthusiasts, is 
how in the world do you control the joystick properly with only one 
hand!?! Whenever *I* use a joystick I need *both* hands. One for control 
and the other to steady the silly thing so that it doesn't flop over.

Just curious.

Vince
(A mouse/keyboard combo user)

+----------------------------------------+----------------------+
| Vincent Tan       Networking Services  | vt...@ccs.uoguelph.ca |
| Systems Analyst   University of Guelph |                      |
+----------------------------------------+----------------------+

Alaska (ff...@aurora.alaska.edu) wrote:
: I don't have a lot of experience with joysticks so I can't speak
: authoritatively about the Thrustmaster's and Flighsticks of the world and
: thus can't compare them but......

: Anyway so he went down to Sam's wharehouse and bought a Gravis Mousestick
: II analog FOR ONLY $30! From all I can tell this thing works perfectly.

At CompUSA the flightstick was about $30. The Flightstick Pro, which I
couldn't resist, was $59. I only had the crummy joystick that came with
my SoundBlaster/CDROM package before (which my son broke, thus the need
for a new one) to compare this against, but it is a dream. Large stable
base so I don't have to use both hands anymore and smooth operation.
The WCS/Thrustmaster looked nice too, but it was $180!

clint

In article <3e95mo$h...@nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca>,
Vincent Tan <vt...@uoguelph.ca> wrote:
>What I want to know from all you joystick/keyboard combo enthusiasts, is 
>how in the world do you control the joystick properly with only one 
>hand!?! Whenever *I* use a joystick I need *both* hands. One for control 
>and the other to steady the silly thing so that it doesn't flop over.

I find a desk works nicely. *grin* But seriously, my Flightstick has a nice, 
big, solid base that doesn't go anywhere when it's sitting on my desk. And
unlike the Thrustmaster (another quality joystick with a heavy base) the force
required to move the Flightstick doesn't flip the joystick over.

-- 
song...@bga.com        "Did you know? If you run with scissors you could hurt
Austin, TX           yourself." - one of Microsoft Word v6.0's Tips of the Day

In article <3e95mo$h...@nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca>,
Vincent Tan <vt...@uoguelph.ca> wrote:
>What I want to know from all you joystick/keyboard combo enthusiasts, is 
>how in the world do you control the joystick properly with only one 
>hand!?! Whenever *I* use a joystick I need *both* hands. One for control 
>and the other to steady the silly thing so that it doesn't flop over.
>
>Just curious.
>

Well, some of the new joystick that are on the market have nice wide 
bases that stick to tables.  ex: Gravis Phoenix.  (Btw...anyone here have 
this?  How is it?  I'm thinking about getting one, want to know if it's 
worth the money.


-- 
/----------------------------------\ GO -d+ H s+: !g p2+ !au a? w+++ v++>!v
|Mithril Mindfire | Phoenix Dragon | C++ UL++ !P L+ 3 E+ N++ K++ W--- M--
|jt...@netcom.com |    -=UDIC=-    | !V -po+ Y+ t++ 5++ jx R+ G++++>'''' tv--
\----------------------------------/ b+++ D++ B- e* u++ h+ r--- n+ y?
"Configuration is irrelevant." Borg Sysop

*Vincent Tan* wrote about *Re: Good, cheap joystick works well with
DESCENT*: 

> What I want to know from all you joystick/keyboard combo enthusiasts, is
> how in the world do you control the joystick properly with only one 
> hand!?! Whenever *I* use a joystick I need *both* hands. One for control
> and the other to steady the silly thing so that it doesn't flop over.

You can attach most joysticks to your table.
However, this is not true for the Competition Pro I talked about.

  =========== // ============================================================
             //     Doom * Laserdiscs * Fiction * Role-Playing * Horror
   regards, //  -----------------------------------------------------------
           //                  Andreas "Goonie" Schildbach
          //  email schi...@informatik.tu-muenchen.de, phone +49-8151-290288
      \ //     -----------------------------------------------------------
       /          Commodore Amiga * Rollercoasters * Cthulhu * Trance
  ===========================================================================

jt...@netcom.com (Mithril Mindfire) writes:

>In article <3e95mo$h...@nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca>,
>Vincent Tan <vt...@uoguelph.ca> wrote:
>>What I want to know from all you joystick/keyboard combo enthusiasts, is 
>>how in the world do you control the joystick properly with only one 
>>hand!?! Whenever *I* use a joystick I need *both* hands. One for control 
>>and the other to steady the silly thing so that it doesn't flop over.
>>
>>Just curious.
>>

	I have an Advanced Gravis ($20) which has a tension adjuster.  I
  just set the tension setting lower so it takes less force to move the
  stick around.  Not only does the base not come up, it's a hell of a lot
  easier to aim accurately from a distance.

				-Scott A.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Scott Adams - sco...@netcom.com - Atheism is a non-prophet organization ---
--------------------- Member of the DOOM / DOOM ][ WAD-TEAM -------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."
				- Albert Einstein 
===============================================================================

In article <ffjjd-31129...@137.229.10.155>,
ff...@aurora.alaska.edu (Alaska) wrote:

> Anyway so he went down to Sam's wharehouse and bought a Gravis Mousestick
> II analog FOR ONLY $30! From all I can tell this thing works perfectly.

Oops wrong name. MouseStick II is the name they give it on the Macintosh.
The correct name for the PC version is the Gravis Analog Pro. In smaller
whiter letters below it reads PC Analog Joystick. It is made by Advanced
Gravis.

This is the version you want to get if you're interested in this joystick.

Clint

In <3e95mo$h...@nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca>, vt...@uoguelph.ca (Vincent Tan) writes:
>What I want to know from all you joystick/keyboard combo enthusiasts, is 
>how in the world do you control the joystick properly with only one 
>hand!?! Whenever *I* use a joystick I need *both* hands. One for control 
>and the other to steady the silly thing so that it doesn't flop over.

If you have a good sturdy joystick with a heavy base (like my Flightstick Pro)
this is not needed, and you can keep your other hand on the keyboard.
______________________________________________________________________
Jeff Kirvin     |     Team OS/2     |     GATB     |    lun...@us.net
Disclaimer: I do _not_ speak for the United States Air Force...

In article <D1sGy...@skopen.dseg.ti.com> hast...@gasp.dseg.ti.com (Clint Hastings) writes:

>At CompUSA the flightstick was about $30. The Flightstick Pro, which I
>couldn't resist, was $59. I only had the crummy joystick that came with
>my SoundBlaster/CDROM package before (which my son broke, thus the need
>for a new one) to compare this against, but it is a dream. Large stable
>base so I don't have to use both hands anymore and smooth operation.
>The WCS/Thrustmaster looked nice too, but it was $180!

   Do any of you happen to know how good the new joystick by Gravis is?  All I
know is it does things similarly to what the Thrustmaster/WCS combo does,

Marcos Villaroman (mar...@netcom.com) wrote:
: In article <3e95mo$h...@nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca>,
: vt...@uoguelph.ca (Vincent Tan) wrote:
[my query deleted]

[majority of Marcos' response deleted]

: You use a mouse while playing games like Doom?

Most certainly! In all 3D 1st-person games in fact. I'll bet my turning 
rate with the mouse is a *heck* of a lot faster than either the keyboard 
or a joystick. 8)  Pretty useful I've found when being attacked from behind!

Vince
+----------------------------------------+----------------------+
| Vincent Tan       Networking Services  | vt...@ccs.uoguelph.ca |
| Systems Analyst   University of Guelph |                      |
+----------------------------------------+----------------------+

> In article <3e95mo$h...@nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca>,
> vt...@uoguelph.ca (Vincent Tan) wrote:
>
> You use a mouse while playing games like Doom?

A mouse provides better fine control.
Joysticks all have a "dead" area around the rest position. So to do fine-tuning
you need to rock back and forth across this dead zone.
Mice have no dead zone. You can smoothly adjust at the quantum resolution
of the mouse (the unit for which I believe is the mickey).

--
Jonathan Edwards				edw...@intranet.com
IntraNet, Inc					617-527-7020
One Gateway Center				FAX: 617-527-6779

Jonathan Edwards (edw...@world.std.com) wrote:
: > In article <3e95mo$h...@nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca>,
: > vt...@uoguelph.ca (Vincent Tan) wrote:
: >
: > You use a mouse while playing games like Doom?

: A mouse provides better fine control.
: Joysticks all have a "dead" area around the rest position. So to do 
: fine-tuning you need to rock back and forth across this dead zone. 
: Mice have no dead zone. You can smoothly adjust at the quantum resolution
: of the mouse (the unit for which I believe is the mickey).

: -- 
: Jonathan Edwards				edw...@intranet.com
: IntraNet, Inc					617-527-7020
: One Gateway Center				FAX: 617-527-6779

One of the reasons I think people don't understand why some of us use the 
mouse in Doom is they have tried it once, and didn't understand how to 
use it effectivley.  The biggest key is have a good mouse driver (like 
MSMouse 9.0 with Mouse Manager) so you can turn up the sensitivity of the 
mouse really high.  Then you can turn 180 degrees in like about a 1-2 
inch slide of the mouse.  I know some people will say 'there is more to 
Doom than 180 degree snap turns' and they are right.  But once you get 
used to 'how much you have to move the mouse in relation to how far you 
move' you will quickly be able to know exactly how much to move the mouse 
in order to turn x degrees.  The REAL secret in my opinion is not to use 
the mouse for movement. Only for turning.  I use S/X for up and down and 
Z/C for strafe left and right (I got trained on these keys by System 
Shock).  Then I can hold down shift with my pinky and use the other 
figners to control movement.  I use the other hand on the mouse to turn 
when moving forward and backwards.  I never use the mouse to strafe of 
move, only to turn and fire.  This way, it kinda feels like your left 
hand is controlling your feet while your right hand is controlling your 
hands and aiming.  For example, I can hold down C to strafe right, while 
slowly moving the mouse to the left.  Instant circle strafe (for those who 
don't know what a circle strafe is, you can 'circle' your enemy while always 
facing him.  Think about how I described it above and you will understand).
This for me was the difference in the game.  I played keyboard for months
and when I tried this mouse setup, it took only about 3-4 games (maybe 
an hour of playing) to get used to it.  Now I will never go back. Nothing
like just zipping the mouse left and right to make INSTANT turns in any 
direction.  Even holding down shift while turning in keyboard mode isn't 
even 25% as fast as the INSTANT turn.  And joystick mode is also difficult 
(with a Gravis you turn way to fast, and with a flightstick it is awkward 
IMHO).  Joysticks are for games like Descent (If only mine would work with 
it !!! Argh! Waiting on the 1.1 patch :)

--
						Jim Vieira
						jay...@earth.execpc.com

Is it me or does it seem that Descent was *MADE* for the Thrust/WCS 
system.  The joystick for direction and the throttle for acceleration.  
Man if you also had the pedals you could circle strafe like *nothing*!  
How much does all this cost (anyone know any good mail orders?)

No money here. :)

Jim Vieira (jay...@earth.execpc.com) wrote:

> One of the reasons I think people don't understand why some of us use the
> mouse in Doom is they have tried it once, and didn't understand how to
> in order to turn x degrees.  The REAL secret in my opinion is not to use
> the mouse for movement. Only for turning.  I use S/X for up and down and
> Z/C for strafe left and right (I got trained on these keys by System
> Shock).  Then I can hold down shift with my pinky and use the other
> figners to control movement.  I use the other hand on the mouse to turn
> when moving forward and backwards.  I never use the mouse to strafe of
> move, only to turn and fire.  This way, it kinda feels like your left
> hand is controlling your feet while your right hand is controlling your
> hands and aiming.  For example, I can hold down C to strafe right, while

I have to disagree, when using the mouse (I do for both Doom and Descent)
put as much control as possible into it.  On my 3 button mouse I have
fire, forward and backwards for descent.  For Doom I used the buttons for
fire, forward and strafe.  That way I have all the important functions in
one place.  Just moving over one key can screw you up royally.  I have
moved the strafe to keyboard, but only so I can circle.  With Descent I
have 10 keys I have to handle for basic actions, plus the keys to change
weapons.

I do however agree that the mouse is much more accurate than a joystick
for doom-alikes.

In article <3ei1o3$c...@nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca>, vt...@uoguelph.ca (Vincent Tan) says:

>: You use a mouse while playing games like Doom?
>
>Most certainly! In all 3D 1st-person games in fact. I'll bet my turning
>rate with the mouse is a *heck* of a lot faster than either the keyboard
>or a joystick. 8)  Pretty useful I've found when being attacked from behind!
>

While playing doom and others, I use a mouse,(my trakball to be specific)
The Keytrak pro keyboard (with built in trak ball) seems to have been made
with doom and clones in mind!\

HOWEVER.

with descent, i have found my Gravis Phoenix (with all 24 programmable buttons
the absolute best interface possible (IMHO).
there are buttons for slide left/right/up/down, cruise, bank/left/right,
forward/backwards.....  Every control is built in my Joystick like it was designed
for descent play!!!

Frank

In article <3ei1o3$c...@nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca>, vt...@uoguelph.ca (Vincent Tan) says:
>
>: You use a mouse while playing games like Doom?
>
>Most certainly! In all 3D 1st-person games in fact. I'll bet my turning
>rate with the mouse is a *heck* of a lot faster than either the keyboard
>or a joystick. 8)  Pretty useful I've found when being attacked from behind!
>

Unlikely.  While I may be an exception, I type extremely quickly, and find
that I can control a keyboard effectively and with minimal errors while
reading, talking, etc., even maintaining two trains of thought simultaneously.
With a keyboard I can get instant feedback with minimal motion, and my timing
is good enough to let me stop exactly where I want.  How good?  Well, I
finished Doom levels 1-3 in Nightmare mode with the keyboard.  I tried using
both a mouse and a trackball exclusively (each for 1 week) and still couldn't
get very far.  It's even worse for me with a joystick, BTW.  And yes, people
I know who use mice/sticks are impressed with my abilities.
I hate mouse-control on DOOM.


--
|  Bill White   +1-614-594-3434     | bwh...@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu         |
|  44 Canterbury, Athens OH  45701  | finger for PGP2.2 block             |
|  http://oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu/personal/bwhite.html (check it out!)       |

In article <3eq7ni$b...@spruce.cic.net>, Frank Walters <y...@mail.fgi.net> wrote:
>In article <3ei1o3$c...@nermal.cs.uoguelph.ca>, vt...@uoguelph.ca (Vincent Tan) says:
>
>HOWEVER.
>
>with descent, i have found my Gravis Phoenix (with all 24 programmable buttons
>the absolute best interface possible (IMHO).
>there are buttons for slide left/right/up/down, cruise, bank/left/right,
>forward/backwards.....  Every control is built in my Joystick like it was designed
>for descent play!!!

So how is this Phoenix? ? I've been looking at them in stores, deciding
whether or not to shell out 100 bucks for it.  Is it worth it for games
like descent and wc3?


--
/----------------------------------\ GO -d+ H s+: !g p2+ !au a? w+++ v++>!v
|Mithril Mindfire | Phoenix Dragon | C++ UL++ !P L+ 3 E+ N++ K++ W--- M--
|jt...@netcom.com |    -=UDIC=-    | !V -po+ Y+ t++ 5++ jx R+ G++++>'''' tv--
\----------------------------------/ b+++ D++ B- e* u++ h+ r--- n+ y?
... If it ain't stiff, it ain't worth a fuck.

>So how is this Phoenix? ? I've been looking at them in stores, deciding
>whether or not to shell out 100 bucks for it.  Is it worth it for games
>like descent and wc3?

  I just saved myself $90 and bought a Quikshot joystick for $10 at
CompUSA.  It is very good for the money.  Had it for a year and no problems.

: >with descent, i have found my Gravis Phoenix (with all 24 programmable buttons
: >the absolute best interface possible (IMHO).
: >there are buttons for slide left/right/up/down, cruise, bank/left/right,
: >forward/backwards.....  Every control is built in my Joystick like it was designed
: >for descent play!!!

I have Thrustmaster FCS, WCS and Pro Pedals-- another incredible setup
for playing Descent!!

: So how is this Phoenix? ? I've been looking at them in stores, deciding
: whether or not to shell out 100 bucks for it.  Is it worth it for games
: like descent and wc3?

Phoenix is the least expensive way to get analog/digital throttle and
rudder and buttons that you can program. Alot of people seem happy with
it.

If you have the money the Thrustmaster FLCS is a joystick that offers even
more programming options than the Phoenix. Thrustmaster Weapon Control
System is a great analog/digital throttle with six buttons and a 3 way
switch that allows you to also program a Thrustmaster FCS of PFCS and
works well with the FLCS.

The best advice I can give is to buy from a store that will allow you to
take it home, try it for a day or so and return it if you dont like it.

camiles

In article <SA073.162...@getty.onu.edu>
           SA...@getty.onu.edu "Daniel Woodard" writes:

> >So how is this Phoenix? ? I've been looking at them in stores, deciding
> >whether or not to shell out 100 bucks for it.  Is it worth it for games
> >like descent and wc3?
>
>   I just saved myself $90 and bought a Quikshot joystick for $10 at
> CompUSA.  It is very good for the money.  Had it for a year and no problems.
>
Yes, but Quickshots aren't as GOOD as Phoenixs. Vital difference.
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