🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <30eje6$c...@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> egg...@physics.ubc.ca (Sebastian Eggert) writes:

>Finally:  Doom is DEAD.

>This weekend the TOP100 games chart, compiled by the readers
>of the internet has declared the strategy game: UFO, Enemy Unknown
>as the highest rated game above Doom. 

-blah,blah,yak,yak.

You want votes?  How about a count of the number of people posting 
about a given game.  I haven't done so myself, but I think DOOM would 
still come out quite high.

But just for the sake of argument, how many times has the info to vote
been posted to a.g.d? 

And finally, so what?

In article <30ergb$d...@news.bu.edu> y-t...@bu.edu (Yan Lee) writes:
>Sebastian Eggert (egg...@physics.ubc.ca) wrote:
>: Finally:  Doom is DEAD.
>
>: This weekend the TOP100 games chart, compiled by the readers
>: of the internet has declared the strategy game: 
>                                   ^^^^^^^^
>: UFO, Enemy Unknown
>: as the highest rated game above Doom.  That means that  the highly
>: celebrated "Doom" was the number one for only 28 weeks (compared to
>: Civilization which was number one for 44 weeks and is still number 3).
>
>Strategy game?????  Doom is more of a mayhem shoot 'em up.
>Doom has excellent graphics and excellent realism, but certainly it has 
>very little strategy.

Thats not really true in a two or more player game. It takes alot of
strategy just from shooting your team mates. (mind you this takes away
from the fun of doom a great deal but strategy is required)

Rob Merritt     email:...@magnus1.com   OR rcme...@cbda9.apgea.army.mil
-* Opinions expressed here are mine and not of my employer.
-*"It is all true. We are space aliens. I'm amazed it took you this long
   to find out." - US Senetor Phil Gramm

Yan Lee (y-t...@bu.edu) wrote:
: Sebastian Eggert (egg...@physics.ubc.ca) wrote:
: : Finally:  Doom is DEAD.

: : This weekend the TOP100 games chart, compiled by the readers
: : of the internet has declared the strategy game: 
:                                    ^^^^^^^^
: : UFO, Enemy Unknown
: : as the highest rated game above Doom.  That means that  the highly
: : celebrated "Doom" was the number one for only 28 weeks (compared to
: : Civilization which was number one for 44 weeks and is still number 3).

: Strategy game?????  Doom is more of a mayhem shoot 'em up.
: Doom has excellent graphics and excellent realism, but certainly it has 
: very little strategy.

Well, it may not be the same strategy imployed in chess, but certainly
during multi-player games (cooperative or deathmatch), strategy will
be useful, and in one-player games, you won't find yourself charging
head on into a crowd of demons. ;)

The Top 100 list does NOT reflect the intent of the voters.  The rating
system is influenced by of how steadily a game can attract new players.
A given voter can rate a given game not more than 26 times.  After 26
weeks, his VOTES ARE IGNORED BY THE VOTING SYSTEM.

When did doom plunge on the list?  About 26 weeks after it's introduction!  

egg...@physics.ubc.ca (Sebastian Eggert) writes:
>Finally:  Doom is DEAD.
>
>This weekend the TOP100 games chart, compiled by the readers
>of the internet has declared the strategy game: UFO, Enemy Unknown
>as the highest rated game above Doom.

The chart is compiled by jojo, not the "readers of the internet."  I
contacted jojo a week ago regarding his voting system.  His reply was
that if a game cannot consistently attract new players, then it is not
much of a game.  I have a problem with this reasoning.  Take the extreme
case.  Suppose, for example, the Game-To-End-All-Games is released tomorrow.
It is played exclusively by everyone.  Twenty-six weeks from now, it
will have a rating of 0 on jojo's list.

(Note:  I am not saying Doom is the GTEAG.  I am not saying a GTEAGs will
ever exist - I am using an extreme, fictitious case to demonstrate a point.)

I have no doubt jojo has put a lot of work into maintaining it.
It contains a lot of important information, and is a great
contribution to the gaming community.  I for one, thank jojo greatly.
However, I don't feel the list is rating exactly what it presumes to,
at least not in this case.  Many systems exhibit bizarre behavior
in extreme cases.  Doom's rating suffers unnaturally for this reason.

> That means that  the highly
>celebrated "Doom" was the number one for only 28 weeks (compared to
>Civilization which was number one for 44 weeks and is still number 3).

Civilization is a commercial game.  The retail nature of its distribution
gears it toward a more steady introduction of new players.  Doom was
available to everybody on week 1.  Doom SKYROCKETED on the first list that
reflected its votes.  It plunged about 26 weeks later.

>Soon, Doom will drop even further since it has only a limited
>replay value for most people.

But you bring up an interesting point.  Are we measuring the worth
of the game, or the worth of the game to _most_ people?  Doom's replay
value increases incredibly with the availability of external missions
(i.e., PWADs).

Either way, the list is not a good indication of Doom's replay value,
nor it's current popularity.  It's votes are being ignored.

>It was a good game, but the best game yet?  Most people don't think so.

Did you interview everybody personally?  Wow, I'm impressed!  Or are you
implying that X-Com is the best game EVER because it is at the top of the
list.

>But Doom has also an advantage:  it is shareware and therefore more
>accessible for voters.

True, this is a great advantage.  But this immediate accessibility also
caused Doom's rating to plunge around week 26.  Remove the restriction
and Doom is still the most popular game on the internet.
-- 
==============================================================================
ji...@point.cs.uwm.edu       DOOM: Forget Disney World ... I'm goin' to Hell!

In article <30eje6$c...@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> egg...@physics.ubc.ca (Sebastian Eggert) writes:
>Soon, Doom will drop even further since it has only a limited
>replay value for most people.

I dunno.  The big replay value for me is modem play.  Playing with
or against another player (or players) doesn't get stale in a hurry.

In the old days, there was a game called Mazewars.  It was played on
an ascii terminal on a timesharing system and was basically a multi-
player shoot-em-up game.  (I've seen an updated version for the Mac
recently.  I don't know how good a game it is.)  Regardless of how
primitive Mazewars was, it held the attention of a generation of hackers
for a number of years.  It wasn't always the most popular game, but it
had staying power.  I think Doom is going to have similar staying power
for similar reasons.

For other people, creating wad files and playing other people's wads is
the main attraction.  Doom is open ended (thanks, ID!) and that increases
it's lifespan.

I don't think we've seen the last of Doom.  But if you want to think
so, by all means feel free.


			Ron
--
"Watching a dog sleep has an odd calming effect.  Not the alert dozing you
usually see, but the deep, blissful, totally relaxed sleep that you have to
get a running start at.  The sleep that says 'everything is in their proper
place and all is right in the world'." -- Oliver

Chainsaw Jim (ji...@point.cs.uwm.edu) wrote:
: The Top 100 list does NOT reflect the intent of the voters.  The rating
: system is influenced by of how steadily a game can attract new players.
: A given voter can rate a given game not more than 26 times.  After 26
: weeks, his VOTES ARE IGNORED BY THE VOTING SYSTEM.

You stated two incongruous things: Voting 26 times is NOT the same as 26
weeks of votes. Each vote lasts up to four weeks. Now I'm sure there are
people who have a login script to vote for DOOM every week, but most
people probably vote every few weeks at best.

: The chart is compiled by jojo, not the "readers of the internet."  I
: contacted jojo a week ago regarding his voting system.  His reply was
: that if a game cannot consistently attract new players, then it is not
: much of a game.  I have a problem with this reasoning.  Take the extreme
: case.  Suppose, for example, the Game-To-End-All-Games is released tomorrow.
: It is played exclusively by everyone.  Twenty-six weeks from now, it
: will have a rating of 0 on jojo's list.

Actually, the game could last up to 2 years (26 Votes * 4 weeks / vote).

: Civilization is a commercial game.  The retail nature of its distribution
: gears it toward a more steady introduction of new players.  Doom was
: available to everybody on week 1.  Doom SKYROCKETED on the first list that
: reflected its votes.  It plunged about 26 weeks later.

DOOM is also commercially available in stores (albeit the Shareware version).

Based on all the hubbub about this tho', I'll bet DOOM reclaims its #1
standing within two weeks - All the true DOOM HEADS will stop writing
WADS and vote instead.

Since this system is a voting system and not a poll, every article posted
will help to skew the results: people who have a strong feeling about
DOOM will vote for it, and cause an upward spike in its rating.

Neal

In article <30h9a4$d...@news.bu.edu>, Neal Patrick <npat...@bu.edu> wrote:
>
>Since this system is a voting system and not a poll, every article posted 
>will help to skew the results: people who have a strong feeling about 
>DOOM will vote for it, and cause an upward spike in its rating. 

Wrong. I feel very strongly about DOOM. I think DOOM is simply the best 
action game ever made. But would I vote for it on some pointless top game
list? No. Instead of a favorite game list, what we need is a true top-game
list. There is a difference. As to how this would be implemented, I have  no
idea. It probably is not possible.
Hmm, I think part of my point has been lost...
The main thing I'm trying to say is that if a number of DOOM players feel like
I do, they realize that it takes a certain kind of person to really enjoy 
DOOM, and it doesn't matter where somone puts DOOM on a top games poll.
We will continue to play DOOM fanatically till every kind of kill has been
done hundreds of times... Then we will play DOOM II  :)

Todd

-- 
"Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time
he will pick himself up and move on." --Winston Churchill

In <dprice.10...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> dpr...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Don Price) writes:

>In article <30eje6$c...@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> egg...@physics.ubc.ca (Sebastian Eggert) writes:

>>Finally:  Doom is DEAD.

>>This weekend the TOP100 games chart, compiled by the readers
>>of the internet has declared the strategy game: UFO, Enemy Unknown
>>as the highest rated game above Doom. 

>-blah,blah,yak,yak.

>You want votes?  How about a count of the number of people posting 
>about a given game.  I haven't done so myself, but I think DOOM would 
>still come out quite high.

>But just for the sake of argument, how many times has the info to vote
>been posted to a.g.d? 

>And finally, so what?

Exactly, so what?  So why does reading this get the people in this group
so aggravated/fired up?  Does it personally hinder your ability to play
DOOM?  I play and love DOOM deathmatches.  I just recently discovered
the networking side of DOOM.  But I also was just able to get X-COM, and
I must say that it is one of the best games I have ever played.  It is
really difficult to compare these two games, being so different, but
game popularity waxes and wanes, and while it will probably always be
popular (until QUAKE), it will become less so.  Its just kind of amazing
the fanaticism this game generates.  Its great, but just because some-
one posts a message proclaiming the death of DOOM being #1, it doesn't
mean it will drop off the face of the earth.  The original post may or
may not have been flame-bait, but I don't see where it could have 
possibly been so compelling as to have generated the amount of traffic
I can see right now.  Instead of filling the net with useless game
war posts, it seems a better use of time and resources to just keep 
playing our favorites game(s) (whatever it/they may be) and keeping
the flame wars to a minimum.  
--
*****************************************************************************
*    Jude M. Greer                           * "Too much power is almost    *
*    jmgr...@starbase.spd.louisville.edu    *  enough"  Mickey Thompson    *
*****************************************************************************

ji...@point.cs.uwm.edu (Chainsaw Jim) writes:

>The Top 100 list does NOT reflect the intent of the voters.  The rating
>system is influenced by of how steadily a game can attract new players.
>A given voter can rate a given game not more than 26 times.  After 26
>weeks, his VOTES ARE IGNORED BY THE VOTING SYSTEM.

 What I think we need is all the people who have NOT voted 26 times for
 DOOM, and get them to vote for DOOM, and shoot past the narrow margin
 needed to push UFO down to #2(not that I have anything against UFO, it's
 that I like DOOM. :)

In article <Ct8Mp...@wtc35a.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>, David...@Daytonoh.ncr.com writes...
>All I can say is.. DOOM now bores me to tears.  How much senseless violence can 
>you have before it becomes redundant?

..UNTIL YOU BECOME DESENSITIZE TO IT! muhahaha.  

Death!
Pain!
Violence!!!
Blood! yeah!

alan

All I can say is.. DOOM now bores me to tears.  How much senseless violence can 
you have before it becomes redundant?

Where is the Star Wars version I've heard rumors about?

Doom?  Dead?  The reports of its death are premature.  Look in
that staid bastion of business computing, PC Computing(August
1994 issue).  It actually has Doom tips.
-- Brian
(BTW, I spend all my gametime with XCOM now, but when it wears
off, I'll get into DOOM probably)

Sebastian Eggert (egg...@physics.ubc.ca) wrote:
: Finally:  Doom is DEAD.

: This weekend the TOP100 games chart, compiled by the readers
: of the internet has declared the strategy game: UFO, Enemy Unknown
: as the highest rated game above Doom.  That means that  the highly
: celebrated "Doom" was the number one for only 28 weeks (compared to
: Civilization which was number one for 44 weeks and is still number 3).

: Soon, Doom will drop even further since it has only a limited
: replay value for most people.  It was a good game, but the best game
: yet? Most people don't think so.
: You may say that it is not fair to compare Doom to a strategy game,
: which is generally more addictive and has much deeper gameplay.
: But Doom has also an advantage:  it is shareware and therefore more
: accessible for voters.

Doom is an okay game and was fun, but was just another shoot 'em up. UFO is
F@#ckin awesome and requires thinking.

In article <30h3ln...@uwm.edu> ji...@point.cs.uwm.edu (Chainsaw Jim) writes:
>The Top 100 list does NOT reflect the intent of the voters.  The rating
>system is influenced by of how steadily a game can attract new players.
>A given voter can rate a given game not more than 26 times.  After 26
>weeks, his VOTES ARE IGNORED BY THE VOTING SYSTEM.

An interesting philosophy for a rating system.  I would think that
ability of a game to remain a player's favorite even after 26 weeks
would count for something.

-- 
Scott Amspoker                     |
Basis International                |  [X] None of the above
s...@rt66.com  *or*                 |
sc...@basis.com                    |

: Doom is an okay game and was fun, but was just another shoot 'em up. UFO is
: F@#ckin awesome and requires thinking.

	Get real.  Nothing comes close to the action DOOM has.  If you 
think some cheesy UFO puzzle-game is better than DOOM, you're too old to 
be playin' it.  DOOM kicked the butts off of every game that was out 
there and the only reason it's fallen is because the friggin' voting 
system is screwed.
	How long has DOOM been out?  ~26 weeks.
	How long can 1 person's 
	  vote count for 1 game?      26 weeks.

Duh!  Go figure.

[SARCASTIC MODE ON]

In article <30jtr3$d...@cronkite.cisco.com> cxro...@cisco.com (Claude Robinson) writes:

> Doom is an okay game and was fun, but was just another shoot 'em up. UFO is
> F@#ckin awesome and requires thinking.

Uh, to my knowledge, there isn't any other shoot 'em up like Doom. The
next bext thing  is perhaps Virtua  Fighter, but they haven't  made an
Intel port yet :-)

"Just another  shoot' em  up" is the   understatement of the  century,
don't you think?

Please note: I'm not criticizing your lack of interest in shoot 'em up
games. Just because 100,000 registered Doomers and 1 zillion shareware
Doomers happen  to  like shoot 'em ups,   you're entitled to  your own
opinion.

However, classifying Doom as "just another shoot 'em up" is pushing it
to far. Do you  think that Windows   NT is "just another PC  graphical
program"?  Unix is "just  another variant of   CP/M"? IBM (insert your
favorite computer  company  here  :-)  )  is "just  another   computer
company"?  Microsoft is "just another software   house"? Bill Gates is
"just another billionaire"?

I'm not exactly on   my knees and praying to   the Id Gods   for their
Ultimate   Game, just  acknowledging  the  BEST   shoot  'em  up  ever
created... until Quake is released, of course. :-)

Have fun  with  your  serious  games.  Hope  that all   that  thinking
seriously  stimulates  your brain  activity.  As  mine is  almost zero
anyway, I'll keep playing Doom,

[SARCASTIC MODE OFF]

	Luis

--

Flames welcome. Flamethrowers too.  Nevertheless, I'll keep my shotgun
ready :-)
--
        ,,,
       (o o)      
---oOO--(_)--OOo------------------------------------------------------------
    l...@lnec.pt                          Luis Miguel Sequeira
                               Laboratorio Nacional de Engenharia Civil
Phone +351-1-8482131 Ext. 2821 Centro Informatica/Sector de Multimedia
Pager 067700 Code 204913       Av. Brasil, 101 - 1799 Lisboa Codex, Portugal

In Article <30eje6$c...@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>, egg...@physics.ubc.ca (Sebastian
Eggert) wrote:
>Finally:  Doom is DEAD.
>
>This weekend the TOP100 games chart, compiled by the readers
>of the internet has declared the strategy game: UFO, Enemy Unknown
>as the highest rated game above Doom.  That means that  the highly
>celebrated "Doom" was the number one for only 28 weeks (compared to
>Civilization which was number one for 44 weeks and is still number 3).
>
>Soon, Doom will drop even further since it has only a limited
>replay value for most people.  It was a good game, but the best game
>yet? Most people don't think so.
>You may say that it is not fair to compare Doom to a strategy game,
>which is generally more addictive and has much deeper gameplay.
>But Doom has also an advantage:  it is shareware and therefore more
>accessible for voters.

    Did this guy post this jsut to see what kind of rise he could get out of
people?!?!  Holy cow!  Well what the heck...I'll join in.

    As for DOOM being dead.....think again Pal.  It's #2!!!!!  I would say
that's not too shabby, and 26 weeks at #1 ain't too bad.

    I will admit....since I purchased X-COM, I haven't fired off too many
shots at the beasts of hell.....X-COM is addicting.  However, X-COM wears on
me after about an hour and a half.  I'll either walk away from my machine,
or fire up DOOM (using one of the HUNDREDS of homemade WADS that I still
haven't played!!).  Ahhhh DOOM.  No serious thinking involved, just pure,
un-adulterated violence and gore.

    No, DOOM isn't dead.  It's popularity will wane, as does any game's. 
I'd be willing to bet that all of the DOOMers out there who have never voted
before will rush to there terminals and vote.  DOOM will hit #1 again. 
Heck, you could actually make a case that this thread (which will live for
weeks) is going to affect the votes and skew the results!

    Well I've contributed enough to this drivel.  Bottom line...Doom and
X-COM are both great games!!!
****************************
Christopher D. Croad
cro...@venus.se.rl.af.mil (Weekdays)
cro...@delphi.com (Weekends)

>From article <30eje6$c...@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca>, by egg...@physics.ubc.ca (Sebastian Eggert):
> Finally:  Doom is DEAD.
> 
> This weekend the TOP100 games chart, compiled by the readers
> of the internet has declared the strategy game: UFO, Enemy Unknown
> as the highest rated game above Doom.  That means that  the highly
> celebrated "Doom" was the number one for only 28 weeks (compared to
> Civilization which was number one for 44 weeks and is still number 3).
> 
> Soon, Doom will drop even further since it has only a limited
> replay value for most people.  It was a good game, but the best game
> yet? Most people don't think so.
> You may say that it is not fair to compare Doom to a strategy game,
> which is generally more addictive and has much deeper gameplay.
> But Doom has also an advantage:  it is shareware and therefore more
> accessible for voters.

I think that maybe DOOM players are too busy playing DOOM to vote :-)
(Which may not be far from the truth, really!)

Cheers, Justin

In article <30lakp$c...@illuminati.io.com>, hard...@io.com (Hardball) writes:
|> : Doom is an okay game and was fun, but was just another shoot 'em up. UFO is
|> : F@#ckin awesome and requires thinking.
|> 
|> 	Get real.  Nothing comes close to the action DOOM has.  If you 
|> think some cheesy UFO puzzle-game is better than DOOM, you're too old to 
|> be playin' it.  DOOM kicked the butts off of every game that was out 
|> there and the only reason it's fallen is because the friggin' voting 
|> system is screwed.
|> 	How long has DOOM been out?  ~26 weeks.
|> 	How long can 1 person's 
|> 	  vote count for 1 game?      26 weeks.
|> 
|> Duh!  Go figure.

How can some people be SO F%&(*IN stupid.  Have you looked at the
top 100.  Take a look at CIV, the same rules apply for voting
for CIV as they did for DOOM, how long was CIV #1.

Yeah, I know..  You don't have enough fingers and toes to count
that high..

John Fedor (johnf@linus.NoSubdomain.NoDomain) wrote:
> In article <30lakp$c...@illuminati.io.com>, hard...@io.com (Hardball) writes:
> |> : Doom is an okay game and was fun, but was just another shoot 'em up. UFO is
> |> : F@#ckin awesome and requires thinking.
> |> 
> |> 	Get real.  Nothing comes close to the action DOOM has.  If you 
> |> think some cheesy UFO puzzle-game is better than DOOM, you're too old to 
> |> be playin' it.  DOOM kicked the butts off of every game that was out 
> |> there and the only reason it's fallen is because the friggin' voting 
> |> system is screwed.
> |> 	How long has DOOM been out?  ~26 weeks.
> |> 	How long can 1 person's 
> |> 	  vote count for 1 game?      26 weeks.
> |> 
> |> Duh!  Go figure.

> How can some people be SO F%&(*IN stupid.  Have you looked at the
> top 100.  Take a look at CIV, the same rules apply for voting
> for CIV as they did for DOOM, how long was CIV #1.

> Yeah, I know..  You don't have enough fingers and toes to count
> that high..

That is not true.  The rules for voting and the method that the result 
were calculated has changed.   Actually, they changed right before DOOM 
came out.  So, you are the one who is so FUCKING stupid not to know what 
the history is.

--
ba...@noc.unt.edu			
DOOM FTP ADMIN  infant2.sphs.indiana.edu /pub/doom
--

: How can some people be SO F%&(*IN stupid.  Have you looked at the
: top 100.  Take a look at CIV, the same rules apply for voting
: for CIV as they did for DOOM, how long was CIV #1.

	Duh, no... what's a top 100 list anyway?  I've only looked at it 
recently and detest the fact that a person's vote can only count 26 
times.  How stupid!

In message <30lakp$c...@illuminati.io.com> on 21 Jul 1994 08:12:09 GMT, Hardball (hard...@io.com) wrote:
: : Doom is an okay game and was fun, but was just another shoot 'em up. UFO is
: : F@#ckin awesome and requires thinking.

: 	Get real.  Nothing comes close to the action DOOM has.  If you 
: think some cheesy UFO puzzle-game is better than DOOM, you're too old to 
: be playin' it.  DOOM kicked the butts off of every game that was out 
: there and the only reason it's fallen is because the friggin' voting 
: system is screwed.
: 	How long has DOOM been out?  ~26 weeks.
: 	How long can 1 person's 
: 	  vote count for 1 game?      26 weeks.

: Duh!  Go figure.

Whoa. Doesn't ONE vote last for FOUR weeks? If you get 26 votes, and that 
is indeed correct, that means that Doom could have stayed at the top for 
TWO YEARS.

--
--
Jason Burrell    |GCS/CM/S/M d++ H s:+ !g !p+ !au !a w+++ v+>!v C++ UC+ 
Jbur...@crl.com |P+>++++ L+ 3 E+ N+++ K--- W--- M-- !V -po+ Y++ t++++ 5+++
San Antonio, TX  |jx R+ G tv++ b++ D- B-- e u++>+++ h* f+ r* n---->+++ y?
World Wide Web:  |file://crl.com/users/ro/jburrell/Index.html

>> Doom is an okay game and was fun, but was just another shoot 'em up. UFO is
>> F@#ckin awesome and requires thinking.
>
>Uh, to my knowledge, there isn't any other shoot 'em up like Doom. The
>next bext thing  is perhaps Virtua  Fighter, but they haven't  made an
>Intel port yet :-)
>
>"Just another  shoot' em  up" is the   understatement of the  century,
>don't you think?

Not really.  Doom is "just another shoot em up" with great graphics.
Beyond the graphics, there is not much of a game.  It has modem support
which is cool, but this could be added with virtually any shoot em up
game and you'd get similar results minus the graphics.  Personally, I
look for more in a game than graphic displays.  Raptor kicks Doom's butt
on both gameplay _and_ graphics; it just doesn't have the modem support --
and Raptor isn't much for gameplay either, though I enjoy it a lot.

>However, classifying Doom as "just another shoot 'em up" is pushing it
>to far. Do you  think that Windows   NT is "just another PC  graphical
>program"?

Maybe not just another graphical program, but it IS "just another graphical
based OS".  Windows NT sucks -- it's only nice compared to MS-Windows.

>Unix is "just  another variant of   CP/M"?

Which variant of Unix?

>IBM (insert your
>favorite computer  company  here  :-)  )  is "just  another   computer
>company"?

Actually yeah.  They invented the PC, but the clones have surpassed it.
AIX is quite possibly the worst brand of UNIX ever made.  OS/2 is
an improvement over MS-DOS, but not much more.

>Microsoft is "just another software   house"?

Heavens, no.  It's much worse than just aanother software house.

>Bill Gates is "just another billionaire"?

Basically.

>I'm not exactly on   my knees and praying to   the Id Gods   for their
>Ultimate   Game, just  acknowledging  the  BEST   shoot  'em  up  ever
>created... until Quake is released, of course. :-)

Serious mode on -- this is the kind of idolatry I simply cannot understand.
It goes *way* beyond the love for a good computer game.  Quake isn't even
out yet, and for all you guys know, it'll suck dirt.  But already, there's
a large faction of Quake worshippers, anxiously awaiting the second coming
of ID.  It's disgusting -- almost makes me believe some of those Doom
demons came alive and possessed you all.  Just look at this humongous
thread that should never have made such a splash.  All the original poster
said was that he didn't like Doom and that since it was starting to fall
from the top, maybe it would continue to fall and maybe THEN there could
be some topic of discussion in csipga besides doom doom doom doom doom.
You guys are less than considerate, you know.  It's an impossibility to
discuss any action game besides Doom anymore and get a decent conversation.

>Have fun  with  your  serious  games.  Hope  that all   that  thinking
>seriously  stimulates  your brain  activity.  As  mine is  almost zero
>anyway, I'll keep playing Doom,

(Why does this not surprise me?)

>Flames welcome. Flamethrowers too.  Nevertheless, I'll keep my shotgun
>ready :-)

Geez.



-- 
####%%####%#%##########                    "There are some days when
   V   ' ' q   ' 'D   ###%%%%###%###%##     a Wand of Clone Monster
########'###%%+#######..L...D.p...W...+     just isn't going to help."
       # #        ####...@W.....q....V#
  %###%%'##%%%+####  W..qq....B.....D.#                           -- DARWATER
  %..L....p.....D..####%'%%##'%'%%Q#'%######'###%#%######
  #p.....L...q.....#   % #  #W  #  #    DD ' '  L   V  W
  #########'%%######   #L#  #####  #%%%%###%#%#%#%%######     s...@kepler.unh.edu

David Soule <David...@Daytonoh.ncr.com> writes:

>All I can say is.. DOOM now bores me to tears.  How much senseless violence can 
>you have before it becomes redundant?

>Where is the Star Wars version I've heard rumors about?

 Well, in infant2 in /pub/doom/themes/starwars(I THINK this is right), just
 download all the files and you will have as close to starwars doom as is
 out right now. In winter, Dark Forces will come out, Lucasart's version of
 Starwars DOOM. 

Jason Burrell (jbur...@crl.com) wrote:
> In message <30lakp$c...@illuminati.io.com> on 21 Jul 1994 08:12:09 GMT, Hardball (hard...@io.com) wrote:
> : : Doom is an okay game and was fun, but was just another shoot 'em up. UFO is
> : : F@#ckin awesome and requires thinking.

> : 	Get real.  Nothing comes close to the action DOOM has.  If you 
> : think some cheesy UFO puzzle-game is better than DOOM, you're too old to 
> : be playin' it.  DOOM kicked the butts off of every game that was out 
> : there and the only reason it's fallen is because the friggin' voting 
> : system is screwed.
> : 	How long has DOOM been out?  ~26 weeks.
> : 	How long can 1 person's 
> : 	  vote count for 1 game?      26 weeks.

> : Duh!  Go figure.

> Whoa. Doesn't ONE vote last for FOUR weeks? If you get 26 votes, and that 
> is indeed correct, that means that Doom could have stayed at the top for 
> TWO YEARS.

Wrong....

You can only vote 4 times for any one game.  Each time you vote,
you can only give a maximum of 5 points per game.  You have 20
points to spread around however you like.  At 5 points per game,
you can vote for 4 different games.  At 1 vote per game you can
vote for 20 different games.  You can mix and match giving more
points to better games, and less to not as good games.  Each time
you vote, the points are used for 4 top 100 issues (which come out
once a week).  So if I vote for DOOM, 5 points, DOOM will get 5
points from me for 4 weeks.  Since I can only vote for DOOM 4 times,
assuming that I vote exactly every 4 weeks, no sooner or later, the
maximum points I can give is 20, for a maximum 16 weeks.

If i could vote for DOOM again, I would...
--
----------------------------<>---------------------------

Gun Control Laws:  Hunting Licenses for Deranged Husbands.

   If Guns Are Outlawed: Only Outlaws Will Have Guns.

           Criminal Control: NOT Gun Control.

 Censorship Is Un-American.  Gun Control Is Un-American.
         Freedom of Religion.  Freedom of Choice.
Protect America, and Keep The Government out of our Lives,
         Our Bodies, Our Computers, and Our Minds.
             ===============================
    John Reinhold           Portales, New Mexico (USA)

: Not really.  Doom is "just another shoot em up" with great graphics.
: Beyond the graphics, there is not much of a game.  It has modem support
: which is cool, but this could be added with virtually any shoot em up
: game and you'd get similar results minus the graphics.  Personally, I
: look for more in a game than graphic displays.  Raptor kicks Doom's butt

	DOOM has modem support and network support, meaning you can play 
it over the modem with your buddy across town or you can network a few 
computers together and have up to 4 people running around in a level, 
shooting and killing each other like mad while they sweat off a few 
pounds.  Grab some of the .LMP demos off of infant2, some of the 4-player 
deathmatch .LMP's and tell me THAT isn't an adrenaline rush.  Best of 
all, if you have acess to it, you can play 4-player DOOM over the net.  
All you have to do is get on the #doom channel on IRC and there's ALWAYS 
someone there who wants to play.
	And Raptor?  Get real.  Raptor is a simple scrolling game, not 
nearly as complex as DOOM.  Looks like every other scroller that ever 
came out.

: Serious mode on -- this is the kind of idolatry I simply cannot understand.
: It goes *way* beyond the love for a good computer game.  Quake isn't even
: out yet, and for all you guys know, it'll suck dirt.  But already, there's

	I seriously doubt Quake will suck dirt.  The only time it'll 
suck is when it sucks everybody into its gaming environment.  Of course, 
it'll probably spit YOU right back out.

: thread that should never have made such a splash.  All the original poster
: said was that he didn't like Doom and that since it was starting to fall
: from the top, maybe it would continue to fall and maybe THEN there could
: be some topic of discussion in csipga besides doom doom doom doom doom.
: You guys are less than considerate, you know.  It's an impossibility to
: discuss any action game besides Doom anymore and get a decent conversation.

	Well, for one, the original poster was implying that he hopes the 
supposed downfall of DOOM in the ratings chart would continue so that the 
fuss over DOOM would cease to be.  THAT is not being considerate, so why 
should he expect any civility in kind from the DOOM players if he posts 
flamebait like that?
	Why don't you start your own newsgroup if you don't like the 
discussion of DOOM?  Hell, DOOM already has 4 of them that I know of, not 
including the more general groups like c.s.i.p.g.a.

I have been following this thread for a while hoping that someone 
knowledgeable would comment on this so called 'survey'. It is by no 
means a represention of the people who 1) buy computer games,
2) play computer games or 3) are users of electronic bulletin
boards. It is a survey of those people interested enough to send a
reply to the collector AND BY THAT NATURE is therefore skewed. 
People who play a particular game may have less access or be less 
willing to participate in the survey. Something I find not very 
difficult to understand. This survey even with a 26 week limit is
still subject to a form of 'ballot stuffing' as a result. I would
estimate that (and this somewhat conjecture) that the effects
of twenty people could significantly skew the results. Voluntary
surveys are notoriously bad. 

In article <30n7dk$q...@mozz.unh.edu>, The Rink <s...@kepler.unh.edu> wrote:
>>> Doom is an okay game and was fun, but was just another shoot 'em up. UFO is
>>> F@#ckin awesome and requires thinking.
>>
>>Uh, to my knowledge, there isn't any other shoot 'em up like Doom. The
>>next bext thing  is perhaps Virtua  Fighter, but they haven't  made an
>>Intel port yet :-)
>>
>>"Just another  shoot' em  up" is the   understatement of the  century,
>>don't you think?
>
>Not really.  Doom is "just another shoot em up" with great graphics.
>Beyond the graphics, there is not much of a game.  It has modem support
>which is cool, but this could be added with virtually any shoot em up
>game and you'd get similar results minus the graphics.  Personally, I
>look for more in a game than graphic displays.  Raptor kicks Doom's butt
>on both gameplay _and_ graphics; it just doesn't have the modem support --
	 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>and Raptor isn't much for gameplay either, though I enjoy it a lot.
     ^^^^^^
    
RAPTOR?  RAPTOR?????  Come on!  You couldn't come up with a better
game than Raptor?  There is no spaceship AI, and the game consists of
holding down the fire button and moving around.  Yeah, real 
sophisticated. 

That comment made me laugh.

The monsters in DOOM are quite intelligent, more intelligent than
Wolfenstein or Blake Stone anyway.

Graphic-wise, those can be done better on an Amiga or at the arcades.
The explosions were nice, but that's about it.

I thought the graphics were the best I've seen in a first person view
game (look at the Ultima Underworlds, Blake Stone, Wolf 3D, etc.).  Of
course, system shock looks to overtake DOOM and others as well.  We'll
see.

Steven

In article <30n7dk$q...@mozz.unh.edu>, The Rink <s...@kepler.unh.edu> wrote:
>Not really.  Doom is "just another shoot em up" with great graphics.
>Beyond the graphics, there is not much of a game.  It has modem support
>which is cool, but this could be added with virtually any shoot em up
>game and you'd get similar results minus the graphics.  Personally, I
>look for more in a game than graphic displays.  Raptor kicks Doom's butt
>on both gameplay _and_ graphics; it just doesn't have the modem support --
>and Raptor isn't much for gameplay either, though I enjoy it a lot.

You have the right to foolishly state your opinion that Raptor has better
gameplay than DOOM. However, "it kicks DOOM's butt on graphics"???
I do not see how you could possibly come up with such a statement.
Beyond the obvious, Raptor's graphics have less detail, less variety, and
less depth.

Todd

-- 
"Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time
he will pick himself up and move on." --Winston Churchill

Alright, I've heard enough.  Everybody's expressed themselves on this one
and There's really nothing left to be said.  Just let it go.

--
________________________________________________________________
What difference does it make if you die of cancer or capitalism?
Go ahead and smoke as many cigarettes as you want.

: Alright, I've heard enough.  Everybody's expressed themselves on this one
: and There's really nothing left to be said.  Just let it go.

Gee.  You haven't been on the net too long, have you?  :)

    _______________pin...@access.digex.net : Ben Parrish_______________
   /  I do not like the men on this spaceship.  They are uncouth, and   \
  /\_______________fail to appreciate my better qualities.______________/\
 /            "Leave the gun.  Take the cannolis." - Clemenza             \
<___Unofficial TANKS! FTP site : ftp.digex.net /pub/access/nukenin/tanks___>

In article <1994Jul26.132124.6451@integrity.uucp>, usenet@integrity.uucp (Integrity News System) writes:
>Just read any post by one of the fanatics.
>
>You guys need to get a little more sun...

there should be four guys with chainsaws chewing up your front door by the 
time I finish typin

Integrity News System <usenet@integrity.uucp> wrote:
>Just read any post by one of the fanatics.
>
>You guys need to get a little more sun...

The only people with less life and sun than Doom players are the 
jackasses who go into newsgroups and try to tell us this, hoping to 
establish their own position in the pecking order of life.

In article <1994Jul28.0...@honte.uleth.ca> std_...@hg.uleth.ca writes:

>>Just read any post by one of the fanatics.

>>You guys need to get a little more sun...

>there should be four guys with chainsaws chewing up your front door by the 
>time I finish typin

Ah Oooh!    One point for... who's keepin' score?       :P




____________________________________________________________
"So I shot him. Then I shot him again. Then, to be safe, I shot him one last time. Then I shot him once more."  --Richard Nixon, Inaugural Speech, 1972
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
William C Roeben				jnu...@nas.com
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

In article <axg708.78...@cscgpo.anu.edu.au>, axg...@cscgpo.anu.edu.au (Ashraf Ghebranious) writes:
>>P.S. I blow away deamons out here too.
> 
> More like you give them blow jobs.

This is a response from a twelve-year old.  Did you think it up all by 
yourself?  Or did you just learn the term, and just HAD to use it?
Or maybe you make a custom wad, in which you walk around sucking monster
dicks, to satisfy some weird mental anomaly of yours.

>  
> ---
> **************************************************************************
> Ashraf Ghebranious
> DBA    
> Management Information Systems Division
> The Australian National University
> Canberra ACT 0200
> PH:    61 6 249 0620
> Fax:   61 6 249 0449
> Email: ashraf.gh...@anu.edu.au
> **************************************************************************

Ashraf.

You are an ass.  Checking back, you've been active in this group for less
three weeks.  Almost every post of yours ( Constitution ravings, DOOM 
bashing, and Bill Clinton? ) is pathetic, stupid, pointless, poorly
thought out, a waste of time, and your sig file is much to big for
such a small (Non-existant) contributor to IBM GAMES/DOOM.   Run-on
sentence, I know - but you aren't worthy of good grammar.

Dick-head.

						Akira (The Overlord)
						Geoff Dyment to others...

(Advertising the fact that you have an IQ equivalent to a burnt piece of
 toast is no way to gain credability in any newsgroup.)

In article <1994Jul19....@apgea.army.mil> rcme...@apgea.army.mil (Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>) writes:
>>Strategy game?????  Doom is more of a mayhem shoot 'em up.
>>Doom has excellent graphics and excellent realism, but certainly it has 
>>very little strategy.

>Thats not really true in a two or more player game. It takes alot of
>strategy just from shooting your team mates. (mind you this takes away
>from the fun of doom a great deal but strategy is required)

Actually whenever I used to play co-operative I used to always get shot in the 
back, not by any demons, but from my team members. It always happened when you 
decided to charge out in front..... dang it!

BTW We usually played it via the network here at work, usually with more than 
two people, it was great fun, especially when we set up a comference call on 
the PABX, then we could all talk with each other. Much easier than typing in 
your message, rather stupid really.


--
FROM:  Mick J Hellstrom  -  Email: mi...@jtec.com.au
                Cruci dum spiro fido
+------------------------+------------------------+
|__________Work__________|__________Home__________|
| Ph: +61 2 390 0188     | Ph: +61 2 416 9073     |
| Jtec Pty Ltd           | Mick J Hellstrom       |
| 118-122 Bowden St.     | P.O. Box 235           |
| Meadowbank, NSW 2114   | Gordon, NSW 2072       |
| Australia              | Australia              |
+------------------------+------------------------+
DISCLAIMER:Any resemblance between the above views
and those of my employer, my terminal, or the view
out my window are purely coincidental.

In article <1994Jul30....@mtroyal.ab.ca>, ady...@mtroyal.ab.ca (ALAN) writes:
|> > In article <axg708.78...@cscgpo.anu.edu.au>, axg...@cscgpo.anu.edu.au (Ashraf Ghebranious) writes:
|> >>P.S. I blow away deamons out here too.
|> > 
|> > More like you give them blow jobs.
|>  
|>  This is a response from a twelve-year old.  Did you think it up all by 
|>  yourself?  Or did you just learn the term, and just HAD to use it?
|>  Or maybe you make a custom wad, in which you walk around sucking monster
|>  dicks, to satisfy some weird mental anomaly of yours.
|>  
|> >  
|> > ---
|> > **************************************************************************
|> > Ashraf Ghebranious
|> > DBA    
|> > Management Information Systems Division
|> > The Australian National University
|> > Canberra ACT 0200
|> > PH:    61 6 249 0620
|> > Fax:   61 6 249 0449
|> > Email: ashraf.gh...@anu.edu.au
|> > **************************************************************************
|>  
|>  Ashraf.
|>  
|>  You are an ass.  Checking back, you've been active in this group for less
|>  three weeks.  Almost every post of yours ( Constitution ravings, DOOM 
|>  bashing, and Bill Clinton? ) is pathetic, stupid, pointless, poorly
|>  thought out, a waste of time, and your sig file is much to big for
|>  such a small (Non-existant) contributor to IBM GAMES/DOOM.   Run-on
|>  sentence, I know - but you aren't worthy of good grammar.
|>  
|>  Dick-head.
|>  
|>  						Akira (The Overlord)
|>  						Geoff Dyment to others...
|>  
|>  (Advertising the fact that you have an IQ equivalent to a burnt piece of
|>   toast is no way to gain credability in any newsgroup.) 


   In believe that this posting is flame-bait and belongs in alt.flame, 
   not this forum.  I further believe that its originator is not 
   interested in a serious dialog and that any response to the originator, 
   other than this canned message, will only encourage further outbursts.

On Monday, July 18, 1994 1:10:30 PM UTC-6, Sebastian Eggert wrote:
> Finally:  Doom is DEAD.
> 
> This weekend the TOP100 games chart, compiled by the readers
> of the internet has declared the strategy game: UFO, Enemy Unknown
> as the highest rated game above Doom.  That means that  the highly
> celebrated "Doom" was the number one for only 28 weeks (compared to
> Civilization which was number one for 44 weeks and is still number 3).
> 
> Soon, Doom will drop even further since it has only a limited
> replay value for most people.  It was a good game, but the best game
> yet? Most people don't think so.
> You may say that it is not fair to compare Doom to a strategy game,
> which is generally more addictive and has much deeper gameplay.
> But Doom has also an advantage:  it is shareware and therefore more
> accessible for voters.

Daddy please hear this song that I sing
In your heart there's a spark that just screams
For a lover to bring a child to your chest that could lay as you sleep
And love all you have left like your boy used to be
Long ago wrapped in sheets warm and wet

Blister please with those wings in your spine
Love to be with a brother of mine
How he'd love to find your tongue in his teeth
In a struggle to find secret songs that you keep wrapped in boxes so tight
Sounding only at night as you sleep

And in my dreams you're alive and you're crying
As your mouth moves in mine, soft and sweet
Rings of flowers 'round your eyes
And I'll love you for the rest of your life when you're ready

Brother see we are one in the same
And you left with your head filled with flames
And you watched as your brains fell out through your teeth
Push the pieces in place
Make your smile sweet to see
Don't you take this away
I'm still wanting my face on your cheek

And when we break we'll wait for our miracle
God is a place where some holy spectacle lies
When we break we'll wait for our miracle
God is a place you will wait for the rest of your life

Two headed boy she is all you could need
She will feed you tomatoes and radio wires
And retire to sheets safe and clean

In article <86cbb730-3257-4493-bb40-3e4f0240b430@googlegroups.com>, 
j.yake14@gmail.com says...
> On Monday, July 18, 1994 1:10:30 PM UTC-6, Sebastian Eggert wrote:
> > Finally:  Doom is DEAD.
> > 
> > This weekend the TOP100 games chart, compiled by the readers
> > of the internet has declared the strategy game: UFO, Enemy Unknown
> > as the highest rated game above Doom.  That means that  the highly
> > celebrated "Doom" was the number one for only 28 weeks (compared to
> > Civilization which was number one for 44 weeks and is still number 3).

In other news, Martin Luther dropped out of the charts after only 23 
weeks, failing to reach the 32 week record of Genghis Khan.

- Gerry Quinn