🚀 go-pugleaf

"Hypnotron" <me@here.com> wrote in news:JdcKe.8549$7d.1367@trnddc08:

> Was it a mistake to go with matrixgames over self publishing?  It
> seemed to me that the marketing matrixgames did for starshatter was
> minimal.  Was starshatter even available on retail shelves?  If not,
> then I dont even see the point of having a boxed version of the game
> if all the orders will be taken online.

I dont have a stance on this particular game but Ive seen this subject 
come up elsewhere. There is an important difference between publicity and 
marketing. Both have pros and cons. Publicity involves time and effort, 
marketing involves money. There are a number of game companys which will 
provide for packaging, online sales, forums, customer support, and have a 
full time publicist. Many of that level of games publisher are 
owned/started by game developers who had bad experiences with the next 
type of publisher.

On the other hand there are ones which will also get you into stores, get 
you ads all over the place, tons of higher level services. Even pre-pay 
you to develop the game.

The big difference between the two is that the second type of publisher 
involves a large layout of money which must be paid back before the 
author gets any. The profit checks are a long time in coming, and are 
often disputed since its more difficult to draw definate conclusions from 
sales.

Everything has its pros and cons. Which type I would recomend depends on 
alot of things like which version of the game, how large an fan base 
already exists, whether the author can do without royalties for a year or  
more, how important is trust, how important is control, lots of other 
factors.

One specific case that I jumped in on recently, FOR THEM I recommended 
version 1    self publishing (build up a fan base for testers and team 
members)
version 2    type A publisher (build up funds and a development team)
version 3    Type B publisher (live off of version 2 funds while building 
up retail-store fanbase)
version 4    if not bought out, return to type A publisher for larger 
returns, less stress, and enjoy the larger fanbase that version 3 got 
you. Hopefully the checks for version 3 are starting to come in also

But that was just one example. Its not an exact pattern that everyone can 
follow.

Gandalf  Parker



Gandalf  Parker

"Hypnotron" <me@here.com> wrote:
>milo or anyone else with an opinion (and you know that means you),
>
>Was it a mistake to go with matrixgames over self publishing?  It seemed to 
>me that the marketing matrixgames did for starshatter was minimal.  Was 
>starshatter even available on retail shelves?  If not, then I dont even see 
>the point of having a boxed version of the game if all the orders will be 
>taken online.
>
>I once asked on the starshatter forums at matrixgames that I didnt see any 
>banner ads for starshatter on sites like shacknews, bluesnews, gamespot, 
>gamespy, etc.  The reply was that they only placed banner ads on sites 
>within the matrix games network of gaming related websites.  So in other 
>words, if they didnt own the gaming portal, they didnt advertise on it.  How 
>retarded is that?  Anyone have more info on the polcies of matrix games when 
>it comes to marketing their games?  Maybe there are different "levels" of 
>marketing they do and that it depends on what milo signed on for?
>
>I think Starshatter is a good game and still with alot of potential for more 
>depth of play.  But if milo didnt make enough money to warrant development 
>of a new version with more features, then we all lose.

Yeah and self publishing games gets them on the shelves
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

"Bateau" <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> wrote in message 
news:8ghkf1h3jauhbusqgr740upp624ttg48dl@4ax.com...
> "Hypnotron" <me@here.com> wrote:
>>milo or anyone else with an opinion (and you know that means you),
>>
>>Was it a mistake to go with matrixgames over self publishing?  It seemed 
>>to
>>me that the marketing matrixgames did for starshatter was minimal.  Was
>>starshatter even available on retail shelves?  If not, then I dont even 
>>see
>>the point of having a boxed version of the game if all the orders will be
>>taken online.
>>
>>I once asked on the starshatter forums at matrixgames that I didnt see any
>>banner ads for starshatter on sites like shacknews, bluesnews, gamespot,
>>gamespy, etc.  The reply was that they only placed banner ads on sites
>>within the matrix games network of gaming related websites.  So in other
>>words, if they didnt own the gaming portal, they didnt advertise on it. 
>>How
>>retarded is that?  Anyone have more info on the polcies of matrix games 
>>when
>>it comes to marketing their games?  Maybe there are different "levels" of
>>marketing they do and that it depends on what milo signed on for?
>>
>>I think Starshatter is a good game and still with alot of potential for 
>>more
>>depth of play.  But if milo didnt make enough money to warrant development
>>of a new version with more features, then we all lose.
>
> Yeah and self publishing games gets them on the shelves
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

I never said/implied that it did.  You must not be fluent in English. 
Please re-read the post.
What other grand insights can you share? 

"Hypnotron" <me@here.com> wrote in message
news:xjtKe.10061$0d.6649@trnddc02...
>
> "Bateau" <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> wrote in message
> news:8ghkf1h3jauhbusqgr740upp624ttg48dl@4ax.com...

> > Yeah and self publishing games gets them on the shelves
> > HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
> I never said/implied that it did.  You must not be fluent in English.
> Please re-read the post.
> What other grand insights can you share?

Young Batty?  Not many  :D  He's just an angst-ridden spotty teenager with a
bad case of "ME! ME!  LOOK AT ME!!!"  Ignore him, the rest of us usually do
;)

--
Daniel Blakemore
ICQ:14459824  Yahoo IM: mylordkhorne

"Hypnotron" <me@here.com> wrote:
>"Bateau" <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> wrote in message 
>news:8ghkf1h3jauhbusqgr740upp624ttg48dl@4ax.com...
>> "Hypnotron" <me@here.com> wrote:
>>>milo or anyone else with an opinion (and you know that means you),
>>>
>>>Was it a mistake to go with matrixgames over self publishing?  It seemed 
>>>to
>>>me that the marketing matrixgames did for starshatter was minimal.  Was
>>>starshatter even available on retail shelves?  If not, then I dont even 
>>>see
>>>the point of having a boxed version of the game if all the orders will be
>>>taken online.
>>>
>>>I once asked on the starshatter forums at matrixgames that I didnt see any
>>>banner ads for starshatter on sites like shacknews, bluesnews, gamespot,
>>>gamespy, etc.  The reply was that they only placed banner ads on sites
>>>within the matrix games network of gaming related websites.  So in other
>>>words, if they didnt own the gaming portal, they didnt advertise on it. 
>>>How
>>>retarded is that?  Anyone have more info on the polcies of matrix games 
>>>when
>>>it comes to marketing their games?  Maybe there are different "levels" of
>>>marketing they do and that it depends on what milo signed on for?
>>>
>>>I think Starshatter is a good game and still with alot of potential for 
>>>more
>>>depth of play.  But if milo didnt make enough money to warrant development
>>>of a new version with more features, then we all lose.
>>
>> Yeah and self publishing games gets them on the shelves
>> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
>
>I never said/implied that it did.  You must not be fluent in English. 
>Please re-read the post.
>What other grand insights can you share? 

"Was it a mistake to go with matrixgames over self publishing?  It
seemed to me that the marketing matrixgames did for starshatter was
minimal.  Was starshatter even available on retail shelves?"

So if good marketing means getting the game on shelves and their mistake
in choosing Matrix Games resulted in poor marketing, the correct path
would have been to self publish which also would not get it on shelves?
Just how is that any different?

Bateau wrote:
> "Hypnotron" <me@here.com> wrote:
> 
>>"Bateau" <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> wrote in message 
>>news:8ghkf1h3jauhbusqgr740upp624ttg48dl@4ax.com...
>>
>>>"Hypnotron" <me@here.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>milo or anyone else with an opinion (and you know that means you),
>>>>
>>>>Was it a mistake to go with matrixgames over self publishing?  It seemed 
>>>>to
>>>>me that the marketing matrixgames did for starshatter was minimal.  Was
>>>>starshatter even available on retail shelves?  If not, then I dont even 
>>>>see
>>>>the point of having a boxed version of the game if all the orders will be
>>>>taken online.
>>>>
>>>>I once asked on the starshatter forums at matrixgames that I didnt see any
>>>>banner ads for starshatter on sites like shacknews, bluesnews, gamespot,
>>>>gamespy, etc.  The reply was that they only placed banner ads on sites
>>>>within the matrix games network of gaming related websites.  So in other
>>>>words, if they didnt own the gaming portal, they didnt advertise on it. 
>>>>How
>>>>retarded is that?  Anyone have more info on the polcies of matrix games 
>>>>when
>>>>it comes to marketing their games?  Maybe there are different "levels" of
>>>>marketing they do and that it depends on what milo signed on for?
>>>>
>>>>I think Starshatter is a good game and still with alot of potential for 
>>>>more
>>>>depth of play.  But if milo didnt make enough money to warrant development
>>>>of a new version with more features, then we all lose.
>>>
>>>Yeah and self publishing games gets them on the shelves
>>>HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
>>
>>I never said/implied that it did.  You must not be fluent in English. 
>>Please re-read the post.
>>What other grand insights can you share? 
> 
> 
> "Was it a mistake to go with matrixgames over self publishing?  It
> seemed to me that the marketing matrixgames did for starshatter was
> minimal.  Was starshatter even available on retail shelves?"
> 
> So if good marketing means getting the game on shelves and their mistake
> in choosing Matrix Games resulted in poor marketing, the correct path
> would have been to self publish which also would not get it on shelves?
> Just how is that any different?

If Matrix wasn't working out, the correct path might have been to search 
for another publisher who might get it on the shelves.  If D.S. can get 
someone to put his product on the shelf, then ... well ... LOL.

In message <h9dpf11tepaa596gjpdnkb1kjl9m9u0s01@4ax.com>, Bateau 
<Gamera@work.stomping.aza> writes
>"Hypnotron" <me@here.com> wrote:
>>"Bateau" <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> wrote in message
>>news:8ghkf1h3jauhbusqgr740upp624ttg48dl@4ax.com...
>"Was it a mistake to go with matrixgames over self publishing?  It
>seemed to me that the marketing matrixgames did for starshatter was
>minimal.  Was starshatter even available on retail shelves?"
>
>So if good marketing means getting the game on shelves and their mistake
>in choosing Matrix Games resulted in poor marketing, the correct path
>would have been to self publish which also would not get it on shelves?
>Just how is that any different?
It's cheaper?
-- 
John Secker

Rico <TrooperRico@bugplanet.com> wrote:
>Bateau wrote:
>> "Hypnotron" <me@here.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>"Bateau" <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> wrote in message 
>>>news:8ghkf1h3jauhbusqgr740upp624ttg48dl@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>>"Hypnotron" <me@here.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>milo or anyone else with an opinion (and you know that means you),
>>>>>
>>>>>Was it a mistake to go with matrixgames over self publishing?  It seemed 
>>>>>to
>>>>>me that the marketing matrixgames did for starshatter was minimal.  Was
>>>>>starshatter even available on retail shelves?  If not, then I dont even 
>>>>>see
>>>>>the point of having a boxed version of the game if all the orders will be
>>>>>taken online.
>>>>>
>>>>>I once asked on the starshatter forums at matrixgames that I didnt see any
>>>>>banner ads for starshatter on sites like shacknews, bluesnews, gamespot,
>>>>>gamespy, etc.  The reply was that they only placed banner ads on sites
>>>>>within the matrix games network of gaming related websites.  So in other
>>>>>words, if they didnt own the gaming portal, they didnt advertise on it. 
>>>>>How
>>>>>retarded is that?  Anyone have more info on the polcies of matrix games 
>>>>>when
>>>>>it comes to marketing their games?  Maybe there are different "levels" of
>>>>>marketing they do and that it depends on what milo signed on for?
>>>>>
>>>>>I think Starshatter is a good game and still with alot of potential for 
>>>>>more
>>>>>depth of play.  But if milo didnt make enough money to warrant development
>>>>>of a new version with more features, then we all lose.
>>>>
>>>>Yeah and self publishing games gets them on the shelves
>>>>HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
>>>
>>>I never said/implied that it did.  You must not be fluent in English. 
>>>Please re-read the post.
>>>What other grand insights can you share? 
>> 
>> 
>> "Was it a mistake to go with matrixgames over self publishing?  It
>> seemed to me that the marketing matrixgames did for starshatter was
>> minimal.  Was starshatter even available on retail shelves?"
>> 
>> So if good marketing means getting the game on shelves and their mistake
>> in choosing Matrix Games resulted in poor marketing, the correct path
>> would have been to self publish which also would not get it on shelves?
>> Just how is that any different?
>
>If Matrix wasn't working out, the correct path might have been to search 
>for another publisher who might get it on the shelves.  If D.S. can get 
>someone to put his product on the shelf, then ... well ... LOL.

He presented the alternative as self publishing not going with a
different publisher.

"Bateau" <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> wrote in message 
news:h9dpf11tepaa596gjpdnkb1kjl9m9u0s01@4ax.com...
> "Hypnotron" <me@here.com> wrote:
>>"Bateau" <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> wrote in message
>>news:8ghkf1h3jauhbusqgr740upp624ttg48dl@4ax.com...
>>> "Hypnotron" <me@here.com> wrote:
>>>>milo or anyone else with an opinion (and you know that means you),
>>>>
>>>>Was it a mistake to go with matrixgames over self publishing?  It seemed
>>>>to
>>>>me that the marketing matrixgames did for starshatter was minimal.  Was
>>>>starshatter even available on retail shelves?  If not, then I dont even
>>>>see
>>>>the point of having a boxed version of the game if all the orders will 
>>>>be
>>>>taken online.
>>>>
>>>>I once asked on the starshatter forums at matrixgames that I didnt see 
>>>>any
>>>>banner ads for starshatter on sites like shacknews, bluesnews, gamespot,
>>>>gamespy, etc.  The reply was that they only placed banner ads on sites
>>>>within the matrix games network of gaming related websites.  So in other
>>>>words, if they didnt own the gaming portal, they didnt advertise on it.
>>>>How
>>>>retarded is that?  Anyone have more info on the polcies of matrix games
>>>>when
>>>>it comes to marketing their games?  Maybe there are different "levels" 
>>>>of
>>>>marketing they do and that it depends on what milo signed on for?
>>>>
>>>>I think Starshatter is a good game and still with alot of potential for
>>>>more
>>>>depth of play.  But if milo didnt make enough money to warrant 
>>>>development
>>>>of a new version with more features, then we all lose.
>>>
>>> Yeah and self publishing games gets them on the shelves
>>> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
>>
>>I never said/implied that it did.  You must not be fluent in English.
>>Please re-read the post.
>>What other grand insights can you share?
>
> "Was it a mistake to go with matrixgames over self publishing?  It
> seemed to me that the marketing matrixgames did for starshatter was
> minimal.  Was starshatter even available on retail shelves?"
>
> So if good marketing means getting the game on shelves and their mistake
> in choosing Matrix Games resulted in poor marketing, the correct path
> would have been to self publish which also would not get it on shelves?
> Just how is that any different?

Good lord.  The meaning I intended to convey was that Matrix Games seems to 
have done little in the way of advertising.  And _IF_ they also failed to 
put the game onto retail shelves, then why go with such a publisher?  Boxed 
versions of games that you can ONLY buy online seems silly.  The only other 
thing Matrix Games seems to be doing for Starshatter is handling sales.

IF all this is strue, I suggest self publishing is a better choice so I ask 
"Was it a mistake...?"

Now can we get on with it please?

"Hypnotron" <me@here.com> wrote:
>
>"Bateau" <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> wrote in message 
>news:h9dpf11tepaa596gjpdnkb1kjl9m9u0s01@4ax.com...
>> "Hypnotron" <me@here.com> wrote:
>>>"Bateau" <Gamera@work.stomping.aza> wrote in message
>>>news:8ghkf1h3jauhbusqgr740upp624ttg48dl@4ax.com...
>>>> "Hypnotron" <me@here.com> wrote:
>>>>>milo or anyone else with an opinion (and you know that means you),
>>>>>
>>>>>Was it a mistake to go with matrixgames over self publishing?  It seemed
>>>>>to
>>>>>me that the marketing matrixgames did for starshatter was minimal.  Was
>>>>>starshatter even available on retail shelves?  If not, then I dont even
>>>>>see
>>>>>the point of having a boxed version of the game if all the orders will 
>>>>>be
>>>>>taken online.
>>>>>
>>>>>I once asked on the starshatter forums at matrixgames that I didnt see 
>>>>>any
>>>>>banner ads for starshatter on sites like shacknews, bluesnews, gamespot,
>>>>>gamespy, etc.  The reply was that they only placed banner ads on sites
>>>>>within the matrix games network of gaming related websites.  So in other
>>>>>words, if they didnt own the gaming portal, they didnt advertise on it.
>>>>>How
>>>>>retarded is that?  Anyone have more info on the polcies of matrix games
>>>>>when
>>>>>it comes to marketing their games?  Maybe there are different "levels" 
>>>>>of
>>>>>marketing they do and that it depends on what milo signed on for?
>>>>>
>>>>>I think Starshatter is a good game and still with alot of potential for
>>>>>more
>>>>>depth of play.  But if milo didnt make enough money to warrant 
>>>>>development
>>>>>of a new version with more features, then we all lose.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah and self publishing games gets them on the shelves
>>>> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
>>>
>>>I never said/implied that it did.  You must not be fluent in English.
>>>Please re-read the post.
>>>What other grand insights can you share?
>>
>> "Was it a mistake to go with matrixgames over self publishing?  It
>> seemed to me that the marketing matrixgames did for starshatter was
>> minimal.  Was starshatter even available on retail shelves?"
>>
>> So if good marketing means getting the game on shelves and their mistake
>> in choosing Matrix Games resulted in poor marketing, the correct path
>> would have been to self publish which also would not get it on shelves?
>> Just how is that any different?
>
>Good lord.  The meaning I intended to convey was that Matrix Games seems to 
>have done little in the way of advertising.

Then you suck at communicating.

>And _IF_ they also failed to 
>put the game onto retail shelves, then why go with such a publisher?  Boxed 
>versions of games that you can ONLY buy online seems silly.  The only other 
>thing Matrix Games seems to be doing for Starshatter is handling sales.
>
>IF all this is strue, I suggest self publishing is a better choice so I ask 
>"Was it a mistake...?"
>
>Now can we get on with it please?

Bateau wrote:
> "Hypnotron" <me@here.com> wrote:
> 
>>milo or anyone else with an opinion (and you know that means you),
>>
>>Was it a mistake to go with matrixgames over self publishing?  It seemed to 
>>me that the marketing matrixgames did for starshatter was minimal.  Was 
>>starshatter even available on retail shelves?  If not, then I dont even see 
>>the point of having a boxed version of the game if all the orders will be 
>>taken online.
>>
>>I once asked on the starshatter forums at matrixgames that I didnt see any 
>>banner ads for starshatter on sites like shacknews, bluesnews, gamespot, 
>>gamespy, etc.  The reply was that they only placed banner ads on sites 
>>within the matrix games network of gaming related websites.  So in other 
>>words, if they didnt own the gaming portal, they didnt advertise on it.  How 
>>retarded is that?  Anyone have more info on the polcies of matrix games when 
>>it comes to marketing their games?  Maybe there are different "levels" of 
>>marketing they do and that it depends on what milo signed on for?
>>
>>I think Starshatter is a good game and still with alot of potential for more 
>>depth of play.  But if milo didnt make enough money to warrant development 
>>of a new version with more features, then we all lose.
> 
> 
> Yeah and self publishing games gets them on the shelves
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Hey dude, where did your big ascii pictures go, they were cool!

Beetlecat <beetlecat@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Bateau wrote:
>> "Hypnotron" <me@here.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>milo or anyone else with an opinion (and you know that means you),
>>>
>>>Was it a mistake to go with matrixgames over self publishing?  It seemed to 
>>>me that the marketing matrixgames did for starshatter was minimal.  Was 
>>>starshatter even available on retail shelves?  If not, then I dont even see 
>>>the point of having a boxed version of the game if all the orders will be 
>>>taken online.
>>>
>>>I once asked on the starshatter forums at matrixgames that I didnt see any 
>>>banner ads for starshatter on sites like shacknews, bluesnews, gamespot, 
>>>gamespy, etc.  The reply was that they only placed banner ads on sites 
>>>within the matrix games network of gaming related websites.  So in other 
>>>words, if they didnt own the gaming portal, they didnt advertise on it.  How 
>>>retarded is that?  Anyone have more info on the polcies of matrix games when 
>>>it comes to marketing their games?  Maybe there are different "levels" of 
>>>marketing they do and that it depends on what milo signed on for?
>>>
>>>I think Starshatter is a good game and still with alot of potential for more 
>>>depth of play.  But if milo didnt make enough money to warrant development 
>>>of a new version with more features, then we all lose.
>> 
>> 
>> Yeah and self publishing games gets them on the shelves
>> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
>
>Hey dude, where did your big ascii pictures go, they were cool!

They were distracting people from my true art.

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 20:54:45 +0800, Bateau <Gamera@work.stomping.aza>
wrote:

>Beetlecat <beetlecat@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>Bateau wrote:
>>> "Hypnotron" <me@here.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>milo or anyone else with an opinion (and you know that means you),
>>>>
>>>>Was it a mistake to go with matrixgames over self publishing?  It seemed to 
>>>>me that the marketing matrixgames did for starshatter was minimal.  Was 
>>>>starshatter even available on retail shelves?  If not, then I dont even see 
>>>>the point of having a boxed version of the game if all the orders will be 
>>>>taken online.
>>>>
>>>>I once asked on the starshatter forums at matrixgames that I didnt see any 
>>>>banner ads for starshatter on sites like shacknews, bluesnews, gamespot, 
>>>>gamespy, etc.  The reply was that they only placed banner ads on sites 
>>>>within the matrix games network of gaming related websites.  So in other 
>>>>words, if they didnt own the gaming portal, they didnt advertise on it.  How 
>>>>retarded is that?  Anyone have more info on the polcies of matrix games when 
>>>>it comes to marketing their games?  Maybe there are different "levels" of 
>>>>marketing they do and that it depends on what milo signed on for?
>>>>
>>>>I think Starshatter is a good game and still with alot of potential for more 
>>>>depth of play.  But if milo didnt make enough money to warrant development 
>>>>of a new version with more features, then we all lose.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Yeah and self publishing games gets them on the shelves
>>> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
>>
>>Hey dude, where did your big ascii pictures go, they were cool!
>
>They were distracting people from my true art.

Being a complete cunt?

Lemming
-- 
Curiosity *may* have killed Schrodinger's cat.

Lemming <thiswillbounce@bumblbee.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 20:54:45 +0800, Bateau <Gamera@work.stomping.aza>
>wrote:
>
>>Beetlecat <beetlecat@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>Bateau wrote:
>>>> "Hypnotron" <me@here.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>milo or anyone else with an opinion (and you know that means you),
>>>>>
>>>>>Was it a mistake to go with matrixgames over self publishing?  It seemed to 
>>>>>me that the marketing matrixgames did for starshatter was minimal.  Was 
>>>>>starshatter even available on retail shelves?  If not, then I dont even see 
>>>>>the point of having a boxed version of the game if all the orders will be 
>>>>>taken online.
>>>>>
>>>>>I once asked on the starshatter forums at matrixgames that I didnt see any 
>>>>>banner ads for starshatter on sites like shacknews, bluesnews, gamespot, 
>>>>>gamespy, etc.  The reply was that they only placed banner ads on sites 
>>>>>within the matrix games network of gaming related websites.  So in other 
>>>>>words, if they didnt own the gaming portal, they didnt advertise on it.  How 
>>>>>retarded is that?  Anyone have more info on the polcies of matrix games when 
>>>>>it comes to marketing their games?  Maybe there are different "levels" of 
>>>>>marketing they do and that it depends on what milo signed on for?
>>>>>
>>>>>I think Starshatter is a good game and still with alot of potential for more 
>>>>>depth of play.  But if milo didnt make enough money to warrant development 
>>>>>of a new version with more features, then we all lose.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Yeah and self publishing games gets them on the shelves
>>>> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
>>>
>>>Hey dude, where did your big ascii pictures go, they were cool!
>>
>>They were distracting people from my true art.
>
>Being a complete cunt?
>
>Lemming

Yes.