🚀 go-pugleaf

Hmm.... I think Talos, you're probably on your own when wanting a RTS XCOM
game, judging by the posts to the group.

There are several definitive aspects which give XCOM - UFO/TFTD it's
uniqueness and long term appeal;

The myth which is now XCOM

The fact it was small unit tactics and strategy

It was turn based and not RT.

    Taking those points and lumping them together has created a series of
games which has a) grabbed the long term interest of gamers, and b) given
MPS a sure fire success, due to the XCOM licence.  However, the fundamental
point remains - most of us gamers are hankering after a game which goes back
to its roots, but with the benefits of 4 yrs of technology and hindsight of
other XCOM titles being somewhat diverse [not necessarily a bad thing] and
moving further away from our interest in the original.  Clearly, both
Interceptor and Alliance has and will gain its own followers, who will
probably have the same fanatical interest in those games as we do in the
originals.
    Most of us still keep coming back to the originals - UFO/TFD, with Apoc
coming next, judging from the posts - an assumption, btw.  With the advent
of Interceptor and Alliance, MPS has pretty much used the XCOM licence to
cover most of the gaming genre's going, so I for one would not be surprised
to see an XCOM game which caters for your needs - simply to milk the licence
for all it's worth.  However, in an ideal world, we would see a
representative from MPS contributing to this ng and we would be involved in
the next incarnation of an XCOM title.  This, I feel I can say in absolute
certainty, would definitely be a game which improves on the original game -
not diversify into another area.
    When considering games such as Diablo and Commandos, you only have to
look at the graphics alone to see how far technology has moved on.  Added to
this is the fact that online gaming - multiplayer and email games - has
skyrocketed.  XCOM - A had grand ideas at attempting the latter, but was
ultimately axed.  My own personal view is that during the projects, gamers
were left out, which meant the design and specifics were left to the
developers, who had a passion for the game they were making, but left little
room for the consumer to add their own opinion - another assumption, btw.
Checking through dejanews articles for XCOM threads will uncover a huge
supply of ideas myself and other regular contributors have added, to the
issue of a new XCOM game.

    Ultimately there are two issues which will shape the next XCOM game;

1.  MPS being motivated purely by profit, which results in an XCOM game
which will cater for mainstream gamers - we've had FPS, Flight sim and the
turn based/RT affairs of UFO/TFTD & APOC.  This leaves the RTS large unit
genre left uncovered at present - add to the list as required.

2.  MPS actually open a dialogue with us and we have a game which does in
fact offer what we want, instead of a perceived, and clouded idea based on
market trends, idea of what we need.

However, business is rarely a democratic process, so I would imagine some
form of No. 1 taking precedence - ultimately, MPS wants profits to survive,
keep the shareholders happy and so forth.

The last issue contends with the actual demand for such a RTS game wrapped
in the XCOM format.  How many RTS games are on the market at present?
Definitely into double figures.  Would another RTS game be of any interest
to gamers?  Take a look at the D2K threads in the strategic forum to gauge
the response.  People remembered and really liked the original Dune 2, but
the remake... New gamers expected an RTS game which was wrapped up in up to
date technologically and even surpassed it, but were disappointed, but the
older [and original players of Dune 2] gamers were more forgiving.  It's a
relevant point worth considering when it comes to the next XCOM game.
    If there is going to be a remake, it requires some hard thinking by us,
the gamers, as well as the developers and management of MPS.  We obviously
don't want a D2K scenario, but do want to keep the uniqueness of the
original titles intact.  I believe it will take a leap of faith from MPS to
actually become involved with us and create a game which reflects our
desires.

    MPS are in a bit of a sticky situation at present, financially.  Hasboro
has bought the company, and their agenda may be totally different to what
the current MPS management and developers have.  Ultimately, Hasboro will
have the final say on matters and it depends on how perceptive their
management are to consumer demands, hard core fans and related issues.

Well, a bit long and involved, but hopefully some food for thought for
everyone.  I admit my examples have been somewhat 'black and white', which
has been intentional to induce debate.  Please refrain from flaming though -
I am open to debate and have no doubt my own personal perspective may be way
off the mark of the overall situation - that includes any MPS who are
reading, btw.  I am simply trying to open a dialogue which explores the
issue, nothing more.

Detonate


Talos wrote in message <199809281...@zetnet.co.uk>...
>Hi folks.
>I have been a fan for X-com, since UFO landed on my system. But after
>a few years, Red Alert and Starcraft come out. I think a new X-com
>should be made, with the battle scale of C&C. You know, lots of
>units, running about a huge battle field, with tanks and other
>vehicles. (I really missed the support of tanks on a tough mission on
>Apoc). But the idea of building a base on the batlefield should be
>left out. The base building on X-com is great. Also, shouldn't they
>bring out a new X-com, that intertwines the UFO and TFTD themes. Ya
>know, Land and sea assuslts.
>See ya Talos.
>

Talos wrote in message <199809281...@zetnet.co.uk>...
>Hi folks.
>I have been a fan for X-com, since UFO landed on my system. But after
>a few years, Red Alert and Starcraft come out. I think a new X-com
>should be made, with the battle scale of C&C. You know, lots of
>units, running about a huge battle field, with tanks and other
>vehicles. (I really missed the support of tanks on a tough mission on
>Apoc). But the idea of building a base on the batlefield should be
>left out. The base building on X-com is great. Also, shouldn't they
>bring out a new X-com, that intertwines the UFO and TFTD themes. Ya
>know, Land and sea assuslts.
>See ya Talos.


The addition I would like to see is moveable furnature/landscape items.
Perhaps things that could be thrown in a pinch, Flour = Smoke
Sand = stun
Rocks = impact/damage

You get the drift.

Raille

Raille wrote:
>The addition I would like to see is moveable furnature/landscape items.
>Perhaps things that could be thrown in a pinch, Flour = Smoke
>Sand = stun
>Rocks = impact/damage


Ah yes! In fact, lets just faze out those wimpy weapons and technology all
together!
After all, why the heck would you use a big dumb smoke grenade, when you can
use flour? or stun bombs, when you can just throw sand at em? and who needs
a plasma rifle? I got a handful of pebbles with your name on em,
sectoid-boy!

-Jakob

Long and very interesting post. I too would love to see a remake of the
original. I'd even settle for a third party releasing an update to the
original XCOM/UFO(requiring you to have the original).
IMHO, large scale tactics would seem a bit off for XCOM, but hey, if there's
demand then MPS just might bite the bullet. RTS in the style of Apocalypse
might be something to consider (unfortunately, turn-based wasn't as good in
that game). Something more interesting however, would be realtime a la
Rainbow Six. The only problem with such a game is it could alienate some of
the XCOM fans who don't have 3dfx hardware.
Anyway, just my 2 cents =)

Detonate skrev i meddelandet
<907020507.27647.0...@news.demon.co.uk>...
>Hmm.... I think Talos, you're probably on your own when wanting a RTS XCOM
>game, judging by the posts to the group.
>
>There are several definitive aspects which give XCOM - UFO/TFTD it's
>uniqueness and long term appeal;
>
>The myth which is now XCOM
>
>The fact it was small unit tactics and strategy
>
>It was turn based and not RT.
>
>    Taking those points and lumping them together has created a series of
>games which has a) grabbed the long term interest of gamers, and b) given
>MPS a sure fire success, due to the XCOM licence.  However, the fundamental
>point remains - most of us gamers are hankering after a game which goes
back
>to its roots, but with the benefits of 4 yrs of technology and hindsight of
>other XCOM titles being somewhat diverse [not necessarily a bad thing] and
>moving further away from our interest in the original.  Clearly, both
>Interceptor and Alliance has and will gain its own followers, who will
>probably have the same fanatical interest in those games as we do in the
>originals.
>    Most of us still keep coming back to the originals - UFO/TFD, with Apoc
>coming next, judging from the posts - an assumption, btw.  With the advent
>of Interceptor and Alliance, MPS has pretty much used the XCOM licence to
>cover most of the gaming genre's going, so I for one would not be surprised
>to see an XCOM game which caters for your needs - simply to milk the
licence
>for all it's worth.  However, in an ideal world, we would see a
>representative from MPS contributing to this ng and we would be involved in
>the next incarnation of an XCOM title.  This, I feel I can say in absolute
>certainty, would definitely be a game which improves on the original game -
>not diversify into another area.
>    When considering games such as Diablo and Commandos, you only have to
>look at the graphics alone to see how far technology has moved on.  Added
to
>this is the fact that online gaming - multiplayer and email games - has
>skyrocketed.  XCOM - A had grand ideas at attempting the latter, but was
>ultimately axed.  My own personal view is that during the projects, gamers
>were left out, which meant the design and specifics were left to the
>developers, who had a passion for the game they were making, but left
little
>room for the consumer to add their own opinion - another assumption, btw.
>Checking through dejanews articles for XCOM threads will uncover a huge
>supply of ideas myself and other regular contributors have added, to the
>issue of a new XCOM game.
>
>    Ultimately there are two issues which will shape the next XCOM game;
>
>1.  MPS being motivated purely by profit, which results in an XCOM game
>which will cater for mainstream gamers - we've had FPS, Flight sim and the
>turn based/RT affairs of UFO/TFTD & APOC.  This leaves the RTS large unit
>genre left uncovered at present - add to the list as required.
>
>2.  MPS actually open a dialogue with us and we have a game which does in
>fact offer what we want, instead of a perceived, and clouded idea based on
>market trends, idea of what we need.
>
>However, business is rarely a democratic process, so I would imagine some
>form of No. 1 taking precedence - ultimately, MPS wants profits to survive,
>keep the shareholders happy and so forth.
>
>The last issue contends with the actual demand for such a RTS game wrapped
>in the XCOM format.  How many RTS games are on the market at present?
>Definitely into double figures.  Would another RTS game be of any interest
>to gamers?  Take a look at the D2K threads in the strategic forum to gauge
>the response.  People remembered and really liked the original Dune 2, but
>the remake... New gamers expected an RTS game which was wrapped up in up to
>date technologically and even surpassed it, but were disappointed, but the
>older [and original players of Dune 2] gamers were more forgiving.  It's a
>relevant point worth considering when it comes to the next XCOM game.
>    If there is going to be a remake, it requires some hard thinking by us,
>the gamers, as well as the developers and management of MPS.  We obviously
>don't want a D2K scenario, but do want to keep the uniqueness of the
>original titles intact.  I believe it will take a leap of faith from MPS to
>actually become involved with us and create a game which reflects our
>desires.
>
>    MPS are in a bit of a sticky situation at present, financially.
Hasboro
>has bought the company, and their agenda may be totally different to what
>the current MPS management and developers have.  Ultimately, Hasboro will
>have the final say on matters and it depends on how perceptive their
>management are to consumer demands, hard core fans and related issues.
>
>Well, a bit long and involved, but hopefully some food for thought for
>everyone.  I admit my examples have been somewhat 'black and white', which
>has been intentional to induce debate.  Please refrain from flaming
though -
>I am open to debate and have no doubt my own personal perspective may be
way
>off the mark of the overall situation - that includes any MPS who are
>reading, btw.  I am simply trying to open a dialogue which explores the
>issue, nothing more.
>
>Detonate
>
>
>Talos wrote in message <199809281...@zetnet.co.uk>...
>>Hi folks.
>>I have been a fan for X-com, since UFO landed on my system. But after
>>a few years, Red Alert and Starcraft come out. I think a new X-com
>>should be made, with the battle scale of C&C. You know, lots of
>>units, running about a huge battle field, with tanks and other
>>vehicles. (I really missed the support of tanks on a tough mission on
>>Apoc). But the idea of building a base on the batlefield should be
>>left out. The base building on X-com is great. Also, shouldn't they
>>bring out a new X-com, that intertwines the UFO and TFTD themes. Ya
>>know, Land and sea assuslts.
>>See ya Talos.
>>
>
>

I'd like to see a 3d-accelerated turn-based 3rd person perspective
squad-level tactical combat sim. It would have selectable views etc.
It could be done pretty neat. Sort of a cross between the X-Com UFO &
TFTD tactical combat interface, and a rotateable selectable and
scaleable third person view. That way you could manuever through
absolutely all kinds of terrain and buildings and obsticles etc.
Making the game in 3d would make adding and making objects for the
game would be easier as well. I guess sorta like X-Com Alliance...
only with the first-person view, and with the essense of gameplay,
style and organization management of UFO and TFTD. I'd like to see
Helicopters and tanks and stuff be used as well. That would rock :-)
--


Sticks and stones may break your bones, but a fifty foot fall will kill ya'll.

Reply by mail to jb...@jancomulti.com

You mean something like Rainbow Six and Spec Ops:Ranger??

Rune Boersjoe skrev i meddelandet <361029c3...@news.jancomulti.com>...
>I'd like to see a 3d-accelerated turn-based 3rd person perspective
>squad-level tactical combat sim. It would have selectable views etc.
>It could be done pretty neat. Sort of a cross between the X-Com UFO &
>TFTD tactical combat interface, and a rotateable selectable and
>scaleable third person view. That way you could manuever through
>absolutely all kinds of terrain and buildings and obsticles etc.
>Making the game in 3d would make adding and making objects for the
>game would be easier as well. I guess sorta like X-Com Alliance...
>only with the first-person view, and with the essense of gameplay,
>style and organization management of UFO and TFTD. I'd like to see
>Helicopters and tanks and stuff be used as well. That would rock :-)
>--
>
>
>Sticks and stones may break your bones, but a fifty foot fall will kill
ya'll.
>
>Reply by mail to jb...@jancomulti.com

>You mean something like Rainbow Six and Spec Ops:Ranger??

Sort of I suppose... use the graphics engine. Throw in a little
turn-based X-Com UFO and a dash of Dungeon Keeper.
--


Sticks and stones may break your bones, but a fifty foot fall will kill ya'll.

Reply by mail to jb...@jancomulti.com

In alt.games.x-com, article <199809281...@zetnet.co.uk>, Talos 
(tal...@zetnet.co.uk) wrote:
> Hi folks.
> I have been a fan for X-com, since UFO landed on my system. But after 
> a few years, Red Alert and Starcraft come out. I think a new X-com 
> should be made, with the battle scale of C&C. You know, lots of 
> units, running about a huge battle field, with tanks and other 
> vehicles.

I've recently started writing a game which is exactly that. It's called 
'Fatal Alliance', but because it is such a huge project for one person 
to do, it won't be finished for years.

-- 
Andrew Gillett
http://argnet.fatal-design.com/
ICQ: 12142937

In article <MPG.107a3098f...@news.virgin.net>,
  a.gi...@virgin.net (Andrew R. Gillett) wrote:
> In alt.games.x-com, article <199809281...@zetnet.co.uk>, Talos
> (tal...@zetnet.co.uk) wrote:
> > Hi folks.
> > I have been a fan for X-com, since UFO landed on my system. But after
> > a few years, Red Alert and Starcraft come out. I think a new X-com
> > should be made, with the battle scale of C&C. You know, lots of
> > units, running about a huge battle field, with tanks and other
> > vehicles.
>
> I've recently started writing a game which is exactly that. It's called
> 'Fatal Alliance', but because it is such a huge project for one person
> to do, it won't be finished for years.
>
> --
> Andrew Gillett
> http://argnet.fatal-design.com/
> ICQ: 12142937

Want help with graphics?

Liam Slater
LSG...@yahoo.com

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

In alt.games.x-com, article <6utnvl$qo1$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, 
lsg...@my-dejanews.com (lsg...@my-dejanews.com) wrote:
> In article <MPG.107a3098f...@news.virgin.net>,
>   a.gi...@virgin.net (Andrew R. Gillett) wrote:
> > In alt.games.x-com, article <199809281...@zetnet.co.uk>, Talos
> > (tal...@zetnet.co.uk) wrote:
> > > Hi folks.
> > > I have been a fan for X-com, since UFO landed on my system. But after
> > > a few years, Red Alert and Starcraft come out. I think a new X-com
> > > should be made, with the battle scale of C&C. You know, lots of
> > > units, running about a huge battle field, with tanks and other
> > > vehicles.
> >
> > I've recently started writing a game which is exactly that. It's called
> > 'Fatal Alliance', but because it is such a huge project for one person
> > to do, it won't be finished for years.
> 
> Want help with graphics?

Probably - I'm not a great artist. I'm writing two other games at the 
moment which I need to get out of the way, and I need a few sprites done 
for one of those. I've done some basic graphics for Fatal Alliance, they 
look quite nice because it runs in 800x600x16bit with lots of 
transparency. (It needs an AGP video card to run at something approaching 
a playable speed)

I've already worked out what the aliens will be. If anyone's interested, 
a quick picture I drew of one of them is at:

http://argnet.fatal-design.com/gfx/

A few bits of information on Fatal Alliance can be found at:

http://argnet.fatal-design.com/pilsbry/

(not much there yet, FA does not have its own page)

-- 
Andrew Gillett
http://argnet.fatal-design.com/
ICQ: 12142937