🚀 go-pugleaf

shadowfax wrote:

: 	i blockaded a gold mine used by the orcs.  i kept on killing peons 
: and anything else that came my way.  but the village kept on producing 
: peons and other characters!  i am quite sure that this is the one mine 
: they are using.

: 	the only answer is that the AI is cheating!

Two other possible answers:
1) The orcs had a large gold storage plus might have already had some 
units in training

2) There was another gold mine that you didn't see.

--
-----------------------
Hugh Tipping
tm...@dorsai.org
-----------------------

In <3rvfdq$2...@muss.CIS.McMaster.CA>, shadowfax writes:
>yo all
>
>	did anyone come across this?
>
>	i blockaded a gold mine used by the orcs.  i kept on killing peons 
>and anything else that came my way.  but the village kept on producing 
>peons and other characters!  i am quite sure that this is the one mine 
>they are using.
>
>	the only answer is that the AI is cheating!
>
>		s

I had a situation where there were only two bridges to my side of the map
and I had them both barracaded such that nothing could walk accross them.
Somehow, however, invisible units from the computer repeatedly kept appearing
inside my town.....  Yes, the AI cheats.....

gtl@gastops.com@igs.net wrote:
: In <3rvfdq$2...@muss.CIS.McMaster.CA>, shadowfax writes:
: >yo all
: >
: >	did anyone come across this?
: >
: >	i blockaded a gold mine used by the orcs.  i kept on killing peons 
: >and anything else that came my way.  but the village kept on producing 
: >peons and other characters!  i am quite sure that this is the one mine 
: >they are using.
: >
: >	the only answer is that the AI is cheating!
: >
: >		s

: I had a situation where there were only two bridges to my side of the map
: and I had them both barracaded such that nothing could walk accross them.
: Somehow, however, invisible units from the computer repeatedly kept appearing
: inside my town.....  Yes, the AI cheats.....

Ever seen buildings start being rebuilt from nowhere, and also 
Raiders/Knights long before you even had a chance to get a lumber mill?  
I also noticed if in a custom game that you disable units, it only 
disables them for you.

-- 
_ dare...@america.com   _-~-_-~ my home page -
- Pagefault/DWA coder _-~-_-~ http://www.america.com/~daredevl/web/home.html
- C / C++ / ASM    _-~-_-~ without coders your hardware is useless.
~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-~-_-~--------------------------------------------_-~-_-~-_	

In article <3rvfdq$2...@muss.CIS.McMaster.CA>, shadowfax writes:
>yo all
>
>	did anyone come across this?
>
>	i blockaded a gold mine used by the orcs.  i kept on killing peons 
>and anything else that came my way.  but the village kept on producing 
>peons and other characters!  i am quite sure that this is the one mine 
>they are using.
>
>	the only answer is that the AI is cheating!
>
>		s


I did that too, to the same effect.  Of course the AI "cheats", how else would they make it so that a pc could provide a challenge to your average gamer?

That's bullshit...The Cleric can teleport characters.

gtl@gastops.com@igs.net wrote:
>In <3rvfdq$2...@muss.CIS.McMaster.CA>, shadowfax writes:
>>yo all
>>
>>	did anyone come across this?
>>
>>	i blockaded a gold mine used by the orcs.  i kept on killing peons 
>>and anything else that came my way.  but the village kept on producing 
>>peons and other characters!  i am quite sure that this is the one mine 
>>they are using.
>>
>>	the only answer is that the AI is cheating!
>>
>>		s
>
>I had a situation where there were only two bridges to my side of the map
>and I had them both barracaded such that nothing could walk accross them.
>Somehow, however, invisible units from the computer repeatedly kept appearing
>inside my town.....  Yes, the AI cheats.....
>
>

Perhaps you was the orcs, and the humans can do sightless someone, and if 
the blockage are not very good, they can across.

gtl@gastops.com@igs.net writes:

>I had a situation where there were only two bridges to my side of the map
>and I had them both barracaded such that nothing could walk accross them.
>Somehow, however, invisible units from the computer repeatedly kept appearing
>inside my town.....  Yes, the AI cheats.....

I think the AI cheats in the number of $$$ or production, but I doubt it
cheats in terms of movement.

The worst cheat that I have found (and I don't mind them cheating, otherwise
the AI would be too easy to beat) is that when you attack their town and
"expose" some of it or explore or whatever, most of the units move out of
your vision.  They do this clearly on purpose.  You attack, get beaten, then
all the units spread out into the black area.

Rob.

	It does - I've played custom games where I started with only a peasant
and everything except footmen turned off (actually, I only played one of
these..), and within minutes of my starting the game, I was overrun by
catapults..

	The reason for this appears to be that the computer starts with
a full city and some units of every type, but I'm not sure if it builds
types you can't..I've never lasted long enough on a game with some types
turned off, since the computer has them.. :(

	Daniel

Yep. The guys who made it said they do. Warcraft 2 will hit the stands 
around Thanksgiving. UNBELIEVABLE is all I can say about the pics I saw. 
The characters are 3-D, you can now also mine metal and oil, you use 
zepplins, and boats to transport warriors, and you also can choose from 
other races like elves and dwarves!! Imagine! With modem play, you can 
team up with someone else and whip ass on others!! I CAN'T WAIT for that 
game!!!
 Oh, yeah, they hired a separate guy to do AI. This time, the CPU will 
start off as lowly as you are!!

In <rlang.8...@mocha.newcastle.edu.au> rl...@mocha.newcastle.edu.au (Robert Lang) writes:

}gtl@gastops.com@igs.net writes:
}
}>I had a situation where there were only two bridges to my side of the map
}>and I had them both barracaded such that nothing could walk accross them.
}>Somehow, however, invisible units from the computer repeatedly kept appearing
}>inside my town.....  Yes, the AI cheats.....
}
}I think the AI cheats in the number of $$$ or production, but I doubt it
}cheats in terms of movement.
}
}Rob.
}

This must be on orcs  level 9. I haven't seen the computer cheating.
But I've seen knights crossing the lower bridges, and then stay in hiding
somewhere out of your vision, to become active after a long time. Also,
sometimes an invisible enemy knight will just stand near whatever you
have blocking the bridge, and pop trough whenever you shift some of
your men.... One of these is probably what happened here.

This is a tough level, btw. Those humans deliberately go for your peons,
the cowards...

Twan.

Yep. The guys who made it said they do. Warcraft 2 will hit the stands 
around Thanksgiving. UNBELIEVABLE is all I can say about the pics I saw. 
The characters are 3-D, you can now also mine metal and oil, you use 
zepplins, and boats to transport warriors, and you also can choose from 
other races like elves and dwarves!! Imagine! With modem play, you can 
team up with someone else and whip ass on others!! I CAN'T WAIT for that 
game!!!
 Oh, yeah, they hired a separate guy to do AI. This time, the CPU will 
start off as lowly as you are!!

gtl@gastops.com@igs.net wrote:
: In <3rvfdq$2...@muss.CIS.McMaster.CA>, shadowfax writes:
: >yo all
: >
: >	did anyone come across this?
: >
: >	i blockaded a gold mine used by the orcs.  i kept on killing peons 
: >and anything else that came my way.  but the village kept on producing 
: >peons and other characters!  i am quite sure that this is the one mine 
: >they are using.
: >
: >	the only answer is that the AI is cheating!
: >
: >		s

: I had a situation where there were only two bridges to my side of the map
: and I had them both barracaded such that nothing could walk accross them.
: Somehow, however, invisible units from the computer repeatedly kept appearing
: inside my town.....  Yes, the AI cheats.....

	No that is not it!  The human scum have an invisiblity spell but 
they passed my guards too.  My guards did not close the gap but thye 
passed unseen anyway.  SO WHAT if the AI cheats you are supposed to 
smarter.  No Wussin' on the net please.

pis...@imap2.asu.edu wrote:
: : I had a situation where there were only two bridges to my side of the map
: : and I had them both barracaded such that nothing could walk accross them.
: : Somehow, however, invisible units from the computer repeatedly kept appearing
: : inside my town.....  Yes, the AI cheats.....

Hmmm... is this really possible? I'm sure I have done the same thing and 
they didn't pass my men unless there was an opening...

John

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  John Christian Lonningdal   |   Computer Science at Molde regional college
 John.C.L...@himolde.no | Address: BOX 1841, Mek / N-6401 MOLDE / NORWAY
    TLF: +47 712 56 075       | Project: Making a great action/strategy game!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Get JOBE 1.1 a sprite editor at http://www.himolde.no/~lonning/jobe.htm

John C. Lonningdal (lon...@hiMolde.no) wrote:
: pis...@imap2.asu.edu wrote:
: : : I had a situation where there were only two bridges to my side of the map
: : : and I had them both barracaded such that nothing could walk accross them.
: : : Somehow, however, invisible units from the computer repeatedly kept appearing
: : : inside my town.....  Yes, the AI cheats.....

: Hmmm... is this really possible? I'm sure I have done the same thing and 
: they didn't pass my men unless there was an opening...

Warcraft AI does NOT cheat via game mechanics.  It only "cheats"  by
having a great advantage in either number of units or gold.  Maybe there's
a magic user in a unexplored square on your side of the map conjuring
these units up or if they somehow got throught your barracade.  I finished
both races and have not encountered something like this.

GL

Night Stalker (gcl0@neptune) wrote:
: John C. Lonningdal (lon...@hiMolde.no) wrote:
: : pis...@imap2.asu.edu wrote:
: : : : I had a situation where there were only two bridges to my side of the map
: : : : and I had them both barracaded such that nothing could walk accross them.
: : : : Somehow, however, invisible units from the computer repeatedly kept appearing
: : : : inside my town.....  Yes, the AI cheats.....

: : Hmmm... is this really possible? I'm sure I have done the same thing and 
: : they didn't pass my men unless there was an opening...

: Warcraft AI does NOT cheat via game mechanics.  It only "cheats"  by
: having a great advantage in either number of units or gold.  Maybe there's
: a magic user in a unexplored square on your side of the map conjuring
: these units up or if they somehow got throught your barracade.  I finished
: both races and have not encountered something like this.

: GL

I have seen it where the computer teleports human units into your orc town.
Evidently the computer gets a spell as the humans that the human players don't
--

- Mike "ekiM" Kent 
  San Jacinto College Central
  mk...@phoenix.net

Mike Kent (mk...@phoenix.phoenix.net) wrote:

: I have seen it where the computer teleports human units into your orc town.
: Evidently the computer gets a spell as the humans that the human players don't

Nope, I don't think so. It's the invisible spell. It just walks straigt 
into your city. It won't be spotted until it attacks somebody.... No 
teleport spell here...

John

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  John Christian Lonningdal   |   Computer Science at Molde regional college
 John.C.L...@himolde.no | Address: BOX 1841, Mek / N-6401 MOLDE / NORWAY
    TLF: +47 712 56 075       | Project: Making a great action/strategy game!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Get JOBE 1.1 a sprite editor at http://www.himolde.no/~lonning/jobe.htm

In article <3u0tat$c...@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> dp...@falun.cs.ualberta.ca (Denis R. Papp) writes:

>   I always thougt a really pathetic way to make the computer tougher is
>   to allow it to start with more stuff.  This is exactly what Warcraft does.

	I agree with you there!  Though I'd amend that (in the case of action
games) to add giving it tons more firepower, shields, etc..

>   I hope Warcraft II is better.  But I fear they will rely on the same method. 
>   -- 
>   Denis Papp                              dp...@cs.ualberta.ca
>					   http://ugweb.cs.ualberta.ca/~dpapp
>   "Are you American?"				- Kids in the Hall
>   "No I'm Canadian.  It's like American, but without the gun."

	One of the things I really like about Warcraft 2 is that (according
to an article in the most recent PCGamer - the one with "The Dig" on front)
the AI is supposed to be as much like playing a human as possible.  It
supposedly adapts to your moves, so that rather than rushing lemming-like at
10 archers, it sends in catapults and dragons and other flying guys to take
them out (almost a direct quote from the PCG article)  I can't say it'll
be this good until I've played it, but they're definitely taknig away its
inherent advantage..

	One other thing: don't say all Americans carry guns, or I'll shoot
you.. :) (I already know my sense of humor is twisted.  You don't need to tell
me..)
--
Daniel Burrows

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you agree with these opinions, they are mine.  | "Come back, cowards!
If you disagree, they are someone else's.         |   Everyone knows
--------------------------------------------------|   Merfolk can't wield
Morphy's law - in any position, the move that     |   magic!" - Pashadar Dirf,
seems to be the most natural, brilliant, and      |   Goblin Flotilla
crushing is the one for which your opponent has   |   Commander, last words
prepared a devastating reply.                     |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|                     "Everything keeps going wrong!" - Murphy               |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In article <3u0ioi$5...@ulke.hiMolde.no> lon...@hiMolde.no (John C. Lonningdal) writes:

>   Mike Kent (mk...@phoenix.phoenix.net) wrote:
>
>   : I have seen it where the computer teleports human units into your orc town.
>   : Evidently the computer gets a spell as the humans that the human players don't
>
>   Nope, I don't think so. It's the invisible spell. It just walks straigt 
>   into your city. It won't be spotted until it attacks somebody.... No 
>   teleport spell here...
>
>   John

	Actually, you CAN spot invisible units (I found this out by accident)
On occasion, the cursor will change to the magnifying glass while over an
apparently empty area of land - click, and while a box doesn't appear, the
info area at the left changes to display the invisible guy.  Unfortunately,
you can't attack it.  Anyone know if an invisible guy killed by a catapult
shot aimed at a unit near him leaves an invisible corpse?  If not, that should
be implemented in Warcraft 2.  (I don't know why.  I just think it would be
fun..?)  Maybe a Raise Dead spell cast nearby gives you a temporarily invisible
skeleton?

--
Daniel Burrows

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you agree with these opinions, they are mine.  | "Come back, cowards!
If you disagree, they are someone else's.         |   Everyone knows
--------------------------------------------------|   Merfolk can't wield
Morphy's law - in any position, the move that     |   magic!" - Pashadar Dirf,
seems to be the most natural, brilliant, and      |   Goblin Flotilla
crushing is the one for which your opponent has   |   Commander, last words
prepared a devastating reply.                     |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|                     "Everything keeps going wrong!" - Murphy               |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In article <3t053h$e...@wavefront.wavefront.com>, jme...@luminet.net says...
>
>Yep. The guys who made it said they do. Warcraft 2 will hit the stands 
>around Thanksgiving. UNBELIEVABLE is all I can say about the pics I saw. 
>The characters are 3-D, you can now also mine metal and oil, you use 
>zepplins, and boats to transport warriors, and you also can choose from 
>other races like elves and dwarves!! Imagine! With modem play, you can 
>team up with someone else and whip ass on others!! I CAN'T WAIT for that 
>game!!!
> Oh, yeah, they hired a separate guy to do AI. This time, the CPU will 
>start off as lowly as you are!!
>

Where did you see the pics? I would love too take a lock at them..Thanks
TTYL.

mrb...@passport.com

CyberPunk: High-Tech Low life.

John C. Lonningdal (lon...@hiMolde.no) wrote:
> pis...@imap2.asu.edu wrote:
>  I had a situation where there were only two bridges to my side of the map
>  and I had them both barracaded such that nothing could walk accross them.
>  Somehow, however, invisible units from the computer repeatedly kept appearing
>  inside my town.....  Yes, the AI cheats.....

I had this happen to me, your problem is that you are not completely 
blocking the bridges. Troops can sneak through areas that look blocked 
off, and I'm sure it's on a high level where the computer has the 
invisibility spell too.

	-ChriS-

dp...@falun.cs.ualberta.ca (Denis R. Papp) wrote:

>Also annoying is the fact that peasants are really stupid and get involved
>in some major traffic jams.  (between the mine and your town hall).

This problem is one everyone has probably encountered, and it has
significant implications for the way your town should be constructed.
These days I make absolutely sure not to have anything at all between
the town hall and the mine (at least, until I deplete it and all my
peasants wind up standing around looking stupid.)  I have had my guys
get trapped in other more insidious ways, though--once I built my
church in the wrong place and when the clerics were created they were
trapped between it and trees, so I had to send peasants to cut them
out.  Other times peasants have built buildings right next to the
river and then gotten trapped until I sent an archer to kill 'em off
(no point letting them eat my food, right?)  Anyone know if there's
any hope for relief from this kind of thing in Warcraft II?

A little Warcraft tidbit, by the way, just in case anyone hasn't
noticed this:  try clicking on a unit several times in succession and
listening to what he says.  I laughed out loud the first time it
happened to me.

-Andy

> In article <3u0tat$c...@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> dp...@falun.cs.ualberta.ca (Denis R. Papp) writes:
> >   I always thougt a really pathetic way to make the computer tougher is
> >   to allow it to start with more stuff.  This is exactly what Warcraft does.

	I _like_ fighting against superior forces. 

Actualy that's not entirly true. When the enemy begins the game 
with a larger potential, it adds a real sence of urgency. Like dune 2 
final level, the only way I could win was to send everyone to destroy the 
death hands. The whole manuver always has a sence of urgency, because the 
situation is make or break.

	In playing games like warcraft dune etc. starting out with the 
same amount of stuff is borring. Of cource I'm smarter than the computer. 
Of cource I'll destroy the village in short order.

	I like fighting against the superior odds because 
fighting against superior odds is what makes a protagonist a hero!


			-Kenji

Oops, I meant to say "fighting against superior odds  _sucsessfuly_
 is what makes a protagonist a hero...."

>Where did you see the pics? I would love too take a lock at them..Thanks
>TTYL.

Check last months PC Gamer if you can find it, as well as last month's 
Strategy + and Computer Game Review if you want to take a look at the 
gorgeous graphics Warcraft II touts around.  Unbelievably gorgeous...

In article <Pine.A32.3.91j.95071...@homer25.u.washington.edu> Kenji Ulstein <ken...@u.washington.edu> writes:

>   > In article <3u0tat$c...@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> dp...@falun.cs.ualberta.ca (Denis R. Papp) writes:
>   > >   I always thougt a really pathetic way to make the computer tougher is
>   > >   to allow it to start with more stuff.  This is exactly what Warcraft does.
>
>	   I _like_ fighting against superior forces. 
>
>   Actualy that's not entirly true. When the enemy begins the game 
>   with a larger potential, it adds a real sence of urgency. Like dune 2 
>   final level, the only way I could win was to send everyone to destroy the 
>   death hands. The whole manuver always has a sence of urgency, because the 
>   situation is make or break.
>
>	   In playing games like warcraft dune etc. starting out with the 
>   same amount of stuff is borring. Of cource I'm smarter than the computer. 
>   Of cource I'll destroy the village in short order.
>
>	   I like fighting against the superior odds because 
>   fighting against superior odds is what makes a protagonist a hero!
>
>
>			   -Kenji
>
>   Oops, I meant to say "fighting against superior odds  _sucsessfuly_
>    is what makes a protagonist a hero...."

	Hmm..I think the odds in the campaign game are OK, since it's supposed
to get tough.  On the other hand, in the campaign game, you often start with
tons of guys and a lumber mill etc., which means that you can survive for
a while at the beginning.  Play a custom game in which you start with 6 footmen
and 2 peasants and then talk about how much fun superior odds are.. :)
--
Daniel Burrows

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you agree with these opinions, they are mine.  | "Come back, cowards!
If you disagree, they are someone else's.         |   Everyone knows
--------------------------------------------------|   Merfolk can't wield
Morphy's law - in any position, the move that     |   magic!" - Pashadar Dirf,
seems to be the most natural, brilliant, and      |   Goblin Flotilla
crushing is the one for which your opponent has   |   Commander, last words
prepared a devastating reply.                     |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|                     "Everything keeps going wrong!" - Murphy               |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>blocking the bridges. Troops can sneak through areas that look 
blocked 
>off, and I'm sure it's on a high level where the computer has the 
>invisibility spell too.

I found the best way to check if your bridges are blocked is to try 
and send a unit across the bridge when you think you've got it 
blocked.  If they find a way, it's not blocked...

mk...@phoenix.phoenix.net (Mike Kent) writes:

>I have seen it where the computer teleports human units into your orc town.
>Evidently the computer gets a spell as the humans that the human players don't

No way!  They're just invisible until they attack your town at which point
they become visible and you see them!

Rob.