🚀 go-pugleaf

On Mon, 11 May 2015 06:16:57 +0200, "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum>
wrote:

>Down from 10 mio subs.
>
><http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/4878-WoW-Down-to-7-1-Million-Subscribers>

Sadly not a surprise, this expansion was not well-made for retaining
subs. I suspect a good few of the 7 million remaining are like me:
disappointed but still holding on because I enjoy playing older
content. There's not much in WoD content for me other than
Garrisonville, although in fairness now I finally tried Blackrock
Foundry LFR (the gating was so ridiculous that I'd lost interest by
the time I had access to most of it), there's actually some very fun
fights in there. Still too easy compared with MoP LFR, but at least
there's fun concepts there.

Wonder what's going on at Blizz lately: this expansion feels
beautifully crafted, up to a point, then like they just stopped caring
and rushed it out unfinished, and are just doing the bare minimum
after that (Twitter and selfies as the focus of a patch... nuff said).
Maybe it means they're putting more effort into whatever comes next
and that'll set it back on track... or maybe they've lost interest and
it'll be a steady decline from here :-/

On Mon, 11 May 2015 14:20:18 +0100, Catriona R
<catrion...@totalise.co.uk> wrote:

>
>On Mon, 11 May 2015 06:16:57 +0200, "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum>
>wrote:
>
>>Down from 10 mio subs.
>>
>><http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/4878-WoW-Down-to-7-1-Million-Subscribers>
>
>Sadly not a surprise, this expansion was not well-made for retaining
>subs. I suspect a good few of the 7 million remaining are like me:
>disappointed but still holding on because I enjoy playing older
>content. There's not much in WoD content for me other than
>Garrisonville, although in fairness now I finally tried Blackrock
>Foundry LFR (the gating was so ridiculous that I'd lost interest by
>the time I had access to most of it), there's actually some very fun
>fights in there. Still too easy compared with MoP LFR, but at least
>there's fun concepts there.
>
>Wonder what's going on at Blizz lately: this expansion feels
>beautifully crafted, up to a point, then like they just stopped caring
>and rushed it out unfinished, and are just doing the bare minimum
>after that (Twitter and selfies as the focus of a patch... nuff said).
>Maybe it means they're putting more effort into whatever comes next
>and that'll set it back on track... or maybe they've lost interest and
>it'll be a steady decline from here :-/

Or its up for sale...and the finished product is someone else's
problem.

redvet

On Mon, 11 May 2015 06:16:57 +0200, "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum>
wrote:

>Down from 10 mio subs.
>
><http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/4878-WoW-Down-to-7-1-Million-Subscribers>

Make that 7.0mil or less now... massive banwave on users of a popular
bot tonight, some forum post linked a screeny of a GM saying 100k+
accounts banned - take with a pinch of salt but still, seems likely to
be a high number going by the amount of noise about it on various
sites. Good riddance, shame it's only 6-month bans rather than
permanent...

Den 14-05-2015 kl. 02:27 skrev Catriona R:
>
> On Mon, 11 May 2015 06:16:57 +0200, "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum>
> wrote:
>
>> Down from 10 mio subs.
>>
>> <http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/4878-WoW-Down-to-7-1-Million-Subscribers>
>
> Make that 7.0mil or less now... massive banwave on users of a popular
> bot tonight, some forum post linked a screeny of a GM saying 100k+
> accounts banned - take with a pinch of salt but still, seems likely to
> be a high number going by the amount of noise about it on various
> sites. Good riddance, shame it's only 6-month bans rather than
> permanent...

Ouch!  Im reading about it now.  I hope Blizzard doesnt consider 
Autohotkey as third party software as I use it for disabling the NumLock 
key. :/

I'm left-handed so my WASD is the keypad.  And the NumLock key is placed 
just above "7" on my laptop...

-- 
Peter T.

<https://www.elitedangerous.com/>

Den 14-05-2015 kl. 06:41 skrev Peter T.:
> Den 14-05-2015 kl. 02:27 skrev Catriona R:
>>
>> On Mon, 11 May 2015 06:16:57 +0200, "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Down from 10 mio subs.
>>>
>>> <http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/4878-WoW-Down-to-7-1-Million-Subscribers>
>>>
>>
>> Make that 7.0mil or less now... massive banwave on users of a popular
>> bot tonight, some forum post linked a screeny of a GM saying 100k+
>> accounts banned - take with a pinch of salt but still, seems likely to
>> be a high number going by the amount of noise about it on various
>> sites. Good riddance, shame it's only 6-month bans rather than
>> permanent...
>
> Ouch!  Im reading about it now.  I hope Blizzard doesnt consider
> Autohotkey as third party software as I use it for disabling the NumLock
> key. :/
>
> I'm left-handed so my WASD is the keypad.  And the NumLock key is placed
> just above "7" on my laptop...

Oh well.  I hope theyre going for the pvp bots next time.  Until then I 
will enjoy the bot trains attacking just one player in the BGs. :)

-- 
Peter T.

<https://www.elitedangerous.com/>

On Thu, 14 May 2015 09:40:55 +0200, "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum>
wrote:

>Den 14-05-2015 kl. 06:41 skrev Peter T.:
>> Den 14-05-2015 kl. 02:27 skrev Catriona R:
>>>
>>> On Mon, 11 May 2015 06:16:57 +0200, "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Down from 10 mio subs.
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/4878-WoW-Down-to-7-1-Million-Subscribers>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Make that 7.0mil or less now... massive banwave on users of a popular
>>> bot tonight, some forum post linked a screeny of a GM saying 100k+
>>> accounts banned - take with a pinch of salt but still, seems likely to
>>> be a high number going by the amount of noise about it on various
>>> sites. Good riddance, shame it's only 6-month bans rather than
>>> permanent...
>>
>> Ouch!  Im reading about it now.  I hope Blizzard doesnt consider
>> Autohotkey as third party software as I use it for disabling the NumLock
>> key. :/
>>
>> I'm left-handed so my WASD is the keypad.  And the NumLock key is placed
>> just above "7" on my laptop...

Doesn't sound like it'd be any issue, they're going for things
actually intended to be bots, rather than just stuff that controls how
your keyboard buttons work, so unless you're using a WoW-orientated
botting program to change your keyboard layout, there's unlikely to be
much problem there :-)

>Oh well.  I hope theyre going for the pvp bots next time.  Until then I 
>will enjoy the bot trains attacking just one player in the BGs. :)

Well it was one of the bigger pvp bots this time (doing a whole load
of other stuff too by what I'm reading), hopefully it'll help a bit.
Wonder if there'll be slightly fewer bots hanging out in various
instances now... will also be interesting to see if it affects the AH
market much,, wouldn't mind if mat prices went up a little to make
them more worth selling! 

Going by the tantrums on the official forum the raid leader of one of
the larger guilds on Draenor got done... it's a bit tough luck on the
guildies who have to rebuild now but I've no sympathy at all for the
cheaters, and those who've lost guildies would do well to point the
finger of blame in the right place.

On 11/05/2015 1:46 PM, Peter T. wrote:
> Down from 10 mio subs.
>
> <http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/4878-WoW-Down-to-7-1-Million-Subscribers>
>
>
Well, I am out again probably for a while.
At least for a few months, can't say forever ever but right now not much 
interest.

I have tokens bought but have let subscription lapse.
Bought some at start for 27K, then more at around 18k on 3-4rd may.
https://wowtoken.info/
NA realms, oceanic seems to still run as NA
It looks like there was a bit of adjustment in the pricing algorithm on 
9th and a greater one on the 14th May.
Either price is dirt cheap, not even 2 days gold.

I had 6 lvl 100 and mostly just did garrison and restocking for 
garrison. The characters were ilvl 645 and hadn't run any Wod dungeon. 
None, I hate instances now and that is probably why interest waned even 
further. They all hit walls that required instances to get beyond. Nope 
not going there. Too many bad tempered workers in there, workers not 
players. I miss timeless isle when you could just grind all day and pray 
to the rng gods:-)

40-ish followers on each , many at ilvl 675  and can generally run 645 
and 660 at 100% when they pop unless it is a particularly bad 
distribution of counters. Quite a few pieces of upgraded and follower 
drop 660+ gear on the chars but no real need apart from making farming 
easier.

With 25 followers and 21 possibilities chances of an uncovered double 
counter are high but a little bit of extra power usually tips it over 
100%.
The last week I can't even be bothered logging in to collect 6-10k in 
follower tasks.
For the past 2 weeks I haven't done much more than look at wowhead for 
the daily Harrison.
  5 are waiting for one quest .
I had them on all 6 in the morning and I was helping friends until about 
8        2 Fridays ago.
Maintenance from 7:30-11:30 on a Friday night , after maintenance took 
the usual Tuesday night out as well.
   So I got one done after midnight , meh, it will be along soon.
It hasn't popped since , 19 %%$%^$^ days.

I know it is 3% RNG chance and all and it is my choice it is a block but 
it typifies the potential unbalance and time gate. Although there is 
heaps to do I tend to do much the same thing on each alt and explore 
around the task with each rather than try to do everything possible.
I don't even need Harrison, it just would have been a bit of use...way 
back when I started on it.

Besides the daily garrison welfare gold I do AH a lot.
Since the bot ban AH dropped from typically 65k to 40k items and a few 
of the most active sellers disappeared. They always seemed to have good 
supplies and there wasn't much to do but snipe away between their 
submissions.
I pretty much dominate some segments now. Rivers of gold, except I can't 
really be bothered. It is pretty much like fishing with grenades right 
now. Funny how the sniping was much more fun.
I don't even gouge much, I am happy to sell at the same old prices, just 
the upper end :-) With buy-low sell-high I ended up with more and more 
in stock , filling up those 20 or so redundant bank tabs with e.g 2 
thousand borean leather someone put up at 10% above vendor, day after 
day. Now seem to be the only one posting my few dozen main lines and 
filling in gaps for people pleading on trade. They seem surprised to get 
only a mild gouging.
I do offer to return say 20 stacks for 1-stack price, but I figure 
slightly above, or sometimes below, is their lookout.
There really isn't any risk apart from it just won't sell , ever, and I 
can still get 90% back from vendor.

  I don't even know why people buy all the pre-WOD stuff, just that they 
do and the bots provided plenty of low-priced to stockpile.

On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 11:04:23 +0930, | || ||| ||||| || |
<|||||||||||||||||||||> wrote:

>Well, I am out again probably for a while.
>At least for a few months, can't say forever ever but right now not much 
>interest.

I'm fairly low on interest myself, back in ironman challenge mode
lately, which is generally what I do at the end of an expansion in the
long content drought waiting for the next one.

>I have tokens bought but have let subscription lapse.
>Bought some at start for 27K, then more at around 18k on 3-4rd may.
>https://wowtoken.info/
>NA realms, oceanic seems to still run as NA
>It looks like there was a bit of adjustment in the pricing algorithm on 
>9th and a greater one on the 14th May.
>Either price is dirt cheap, not even 2 days gold.

Lucky, it's 40k+ over here, and that takes me a week or two to get,
I've not bothered buying any yet as I'm saving up for the ZG tiger,
should it ever appear on our black market. 

>I had 6 lvl 100 and mostly just did garrison and restocking for 
>garrison. The characters were ilvl 645 and hadn't run any Wod dungeon. 
>None, I hate instances now and that is probably why interest waned even 
>further. They all hit walls that required instances to get beyond. Nope 
>not going there. Too many bad tempered workers in there, workers not 
>players. I miss timeless isle when you could just grind all day and pray 
>to the rng gods:-)

LFR is fine for people's behaviour, at least on European servers, so
are Rukhmar groups. I'm up to 665 ilvl now, hit a bit of a wall due to
not having any real upgrades left to aim for, I guess I really need to
force myself to do the 5-mans needed for the legendary ring chain,
sigh - I've no problem at all with grinding LFR for the chain but I
have to get past those damn heroic 5-mans first, and I've had enough
bad 5-man experiences in the past to really not want to do them :-/

>Besides the daily garrison welfare gold I do AH a lot.
>Since the bot ban AH dropped from typically 65k to 40k items and a few 
>of the most active sellers disappeared. They always seemed to have good 
>supplies and there wasn't much to do but snipe away between their 
>submissions.

Yeah I noticed a number of my glyph competitors appear to have
vanished, and herb/ore prices have gone up significantly, reckon a few
of the more active types maybe got hit. Or more people got bored and
quit.

>  I don't even know why people buy all the pre-WOD stuff, just that they 
>do and the bots provided plenty of low-priced to stockpile.

I buy tons of pre-WoD herbs, because if they're cheaper than the WoD
equivalent, they're more profitable for my scribe - cheaper ink for my
glyphs, and can craft lower lvl cards from the leftovers, which do
sell still (slightly surprising at times). I actually far prefer
buying older herbs if I can, as it's annoying having to trek over to
the ink vendor and actually have the ink to trade in my bags instead
of inevitably sitting in the bank and needing a few journeys to get
all I want lol. Luckily most are relatively cheap on my server, it's
only the Cataclysm herbs which are crazy high prices compared with WoD
ones, rest are generally cheaper or about the same.

On 3/06/2015 11:10 PM, Catriona R wrote:
>
> On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 11:04:23 +0930, | || ||| ||||| || |
> <|||||||||||||||||||||> wrote:
>
>> Well, I am out again probably for a while.
>> At least for a few months, can't say forever ever but right now not much
>> interest.
>
> I'm fairly low on interest myself, back in ironman challenge mode
> lately, which is generally what I do at the end of an expansion in the
> long content drought waiting for the next one.
>
>> I have tokens bought but have let subscription lapse.
>> Bought some at start for 27K, then more at around 18k on 3-4rd may.
>> https://wowtoken.info/
>> NA realms, oceanic seems to still run as NA
>> It looks like there was a bit of adjustment in the pricing algorithm on
>> 9th and a greater one on the 14th May.
>> Either price is dirt cheap, not even 2 days gold.
>
> Lucky, it's 40k+ over here, and that takes me a week or two to get,
> I've not bothered buying any yet as I'm saving up for the ZG tiger,
> should it ever appear on our black market.

Having something with a trend from day to day was just begging to buy 
low. I was very suspicious of the trends, the input was way too 
responsive. If it was a machine it would have been building resonance to 
destruction.
  Not so much an error, they corrected it , and can't have know the 
push-pull force (price-demand) before hand. Still suspicious of what was 
actually being sold and if it was 1-1. I don't think they actually 
reflected token being bought for $ initially and suspect a bit of 
salting was going on. Okay , be kind and call it pump priming :-)
   I am not even sure what the pricing and zone comparisons mean. Not 
many markets where the seller will sell below their cost. The gold cost 
is something they mostly create from nothing and the buyers may be 
pouring the gold straight into gold sinks.
   I think it probably should be 70k, but have no access to blizzards 
numbers, maybe they make sense but then again....blizzard...no flying ever.

Den 03-06-2015 kl. 15:02 skrev Lewis:

> Tokens can be bought on the login screen for about 22K.

~40K in europe. :(

-- 
Peter T.

<https://www.elitedangerous.com/>

On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 18:56:28 +0200, "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum>
wrote:

>Den 03-06-2015 kl. 15:02 skrev Lewis:
>
>> Tokens can be bought on the login screen for about 22K.
>
>~40K in europe. :(

Although at least we're not in Taiwan or Korea... can only assume they
have enormous botting/goldbuying operations for prices to be that
high, it's insane! https://wowtoken.info/ is scary...

Den 03-06-2015 kl. 20:39 skrev Catriona R:

> Although at least we're not in Taiwan or Korea... can only assume they
> have enormous botting/goldbuying operations for prices to be that
> high, it's insane! https://wowtoken.info/ is scary...

holy mothe....! 169k! ^^

-- 
Peter T.

<https://www.elitedangerous.com/>

On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 21:01:14 +0200, "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum>
wrote:

>Den 03-06-2015 kl. 20:39 skrev Catriona R:
>
>> Although at least we're not in Taiwan or Korea... can only assume they
>> have enormous botting/goldbuying operations for prices to be that
>> high, it's insane! https://wowtoken.info/ is scary...
>
>holy mothe....! 169k! ^^

212k even worse... that's just insane, no idea how that even works
unless people only pay for a month every few months!

Den 03-06-2015 kl. 21:12 skrev Catriona R:

>> holy mothe....! 169k! ^^
>
> 212k even worse... that's just insane, no idea how that even works
> unless people only pay for a month every few months!

I missed the taiwanese part.  Did a little conversion:

     North America: $20 USD
     Europe: €20 EUR or £15 GBP
     China: ¥30 CNY
     Taiwan: NT$500 TWD
     South Korea: ₩22,000 KRW

€20 = $17,77 - $20 ,      $20 = €22,51
€20 = ¥138 CNY <<-- !! ,  ¥30 = €4,31 - cheap cheap subscription :)
€20 = NT$693 TWD ,     NT$500 = €14,43
€20 = ₩24930 KRW ,     ₩22000 = €17,65

-- 
Peter T.

<https://www.elitedangerous.com/>

On 3/06/2015 11:04 AM, | || ||| ||||| || | wrote:

> For the past 2 weeks I haven't done much more than look at wowhead for
> the daily Harrison.
>   5 are waiting for one quest .
> I had them on all 6 in the morning and I was helping friends until about
> 8        2 Fridays ago.
> Maintenance from 7:30-11:30 on a Friday night , after maintenance took
> the usual Tuesday night out as well.
>    So I got one done after midnight , meh, it will be along soon.
> It hasn't popped since , 19 %%$%^$^ days.
>
> I know it is 3% RNG chance and all and it is my choice it is a block but
> it typifies the potential unbalance and time gate. Although there is
> heaps to do I tend to do much the same thing on each alt and explore
> around the task with each rather than try to do everything possible.
> I don't even need Harrison, it just would have been a bit of use...way
> back when I started on it.

Just keeping an eye on wowhead for it,wowhead shows the region dailies 
rhs 2 panels down.
Mainly because it is something incomplete and annoying me. 'How long 
would I have had to wait?'
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/17999420662
and others , a different quest in the set
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/16951405510?page=2
also show some long waits .
A very long stretch down to below 0.6% could be just RNG but multiples? 
in succession?
So it turns up today and guess what, 30 days, same as the other long wait.

It is possible I missed a day,with time zones and such, murphy says it 
turned up on that day but otherwise what's the odds? rng , time gate or bug?





Spoilers

Do not proceed if you want to enjoy wow this can really destroy immersion.
















Seriously, go back















Okay





Next time you are really bored try counting bugs
this can really destroy immersion.
Just before stopping I counted 146 in 6 hours. By the 4 bars-slash 
method, no details but probably 2/3 were close together, 
bug-retry-bug-retry-success. Quest reset, relogs, reloadui, quest not 
opening, anything at all since it was just a count.
The response to bugs was so automatic it was hard at first to notice and 
break flow.
So, one every 2-1/2 minutes or so, actually every 5 to 10 minutes since 
they were often grouped but I was getting really unforgiving after a while.

Now tell me missing quests are all just RNG :-)

On Thu, 14 May 2015 01:27:51 +0100, Catriona R
<catrion...@totalise.co.uk> wrote:

>On Mon, 11 May 2015 06:16:57 +0200, "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum>
>wrote:
>
>>Down from 10 mio subs.
>>
>><http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/4878-WoW-Down-to-7-1-Million-Subscribers>
>
>Make that 7.0mil or less now... massive banwave on users of a popular
>bot tonight, some forum post linked a screeny of a GM saying 100k+
>accounts banned - take with a pinch of salt but still, seems likely to
>be a high number going by the amount of noise about it on various
>sites. Good riddance, shame it's only 6-month bans rather than
>permanent...

And another banwave tonight,  Blizz are certainly cracking down on
bots for a change! Smaller bots this time, apparently (I know zero
about any bots so I'm going by what people on MMO-C forums are saying)
so probably not as big a banwave, but this time it's permanent rather
than 6 months. I guess if people will keep on botting after it being
pretty public about the last banwave, they get what they deserve,
really...

Den 19-06-2015 kl. 04:46 skrev Catriona R:
>
> On Thu, 14 May 2015 01:27:51 +0100, Catriona R
> <catrion...@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 11 May 2015 06:16:57 +0200, "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Down from 10 mio subs.
>>>
>>> <http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/4878-WoW-Down-to-7-1-Million-Subscribers>
>>
>> Make that 7.0mil or less now... massive banwave on users of a popular
>> bot tonight, some forum post linked a screeny of a GM saying 100k+
>> accounts banned - take with a pinch of salt but still, seems likely to
>> be a high number going by the amount of noise about it on various
>> sites. Good riddance, shame it's only 6-month bans rather than
>> permanent...
>
> And another banwave tonight,  Blizz are certainly cracking down on
> bots for a change! Smaller bots this time, apparently (I know zero
> about any bots so I'm going by what people on MMO-C forums are saying)
> so probably not as big a banwave, but this time it's permanent rather
> than 6 months. I guess if people will keep on botting after it being
> pretty public about the last banwave, they get what they deserve,
> really...

Good news.

-- 
Peter T.

<https://www.elitedangerous.com/>

On Fri, 19 Jun 2015 06:07:54 +0200, "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum>
wrote:

>Den 19-06-2015 kl. 04:46 skrev Catriona R:
>>
>> On Thu, 14 May 2015 01:27:51 +0100, Catriona R
>> <catrion...@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 11 May 2015 06:16:57 +0200, "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Down from 10 mio subs.
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/4878-WoW-Down-to-7-1-Million-Subscribers>
>>>
>>> Make that 7.0mil or less now... massive banwave on users of a popular
>>> bot tonight, some forum post linked a screeny of a GM saying 100k+
>>> accounts banned - take with a pinch of salt but still, seems likely to
>>> be a high number going by the amount of noise about it on various
>>> sites. Good riddance, shame it's only 6-month bans rather than
>>> permanent...
>>
>> And another banwave tonight,  Blizz are certainly cracking down on
>> bots for a change! Smaller bots this time, apparently (I know zero
>> about any bots so I'm going by what people on MMO-C forums are saying)
>> so probably not as big a banwave, but this time it's permanent rather
>> than 6 months. I guess if people will keep on botting after it being
>> pretty public about the last banwave, they get what they deserve,
>> really...
>
>Good news.

Hmmm. For the last few weeks, whenever I've done a glyph listing on
the AH, I've noticed a few distinctive names as being the current
cheapest auctions which I'm undercutting, on large numbers of glyphs;
no matter the time of day, these names are there. I did a listing just
now and... they're not there, at all. Interesting.... ;-)

Den 19-06-2015 kl. 19:44 skrev Catriona R:

> Hmmm. For the last few weeks, whenever I've done a glyph listing on
> the AH, I've noticed a few distinctive names as being the current
> cheapest auctions which I'm undercutting, on large numbers of glyphs;
> no matter the time of day, these names are there. I did a listing just
> now and... they're not there, at all. Interesting.... ;-)

Cool. :)

I stopped the AH bashing completely more than a year ago.  So now I try 
to optimize my garrison as much as possible.  5 chars yields around 3-4k 
gold every day by vendoring most of the stuff from the bigger crates = 
~100k gold a month.  Of course I keep the most interesting x-mog'ish 
items mainly for personal use. :)

-- 
Peter T.

<https://www.elitedangerous.com/>

On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 13:16:48 +0200, "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum>
wrote:

>Den 19-06-2015 kl. 19:44 skrev Catriona R:
>> Hmmm. For the last few weeks, whenever I've done a glyph listing on
>> the AH, I've noticed a few distinctive names as being the current
>> cheapest auctions which I'm undercutting, on large numbers of glyphs;
>> no matter the time of day, these names are there. I did a listing just
>> now and... they're not there, at all. Interesting.... ;-)
>
>Cool. :)
>
>I stopped the AH bashing completely more than a year ago.  So now I try 
>to optimize my garrison as much as possible.  5 chars yields around 3-4k 
>gold every day by vendoring most of the stuff from the bigger crates = 
>~100k gold a month.  Of course I keep the most interesting x-mog'ish 
>items mainly for personal use. :)

I love the salvage yard, yep - only got 2 lvl 100s but they both get
good gold from vendoring stuff, or auctioning off the epics/blues.
Trading post is decent for gold as well, convert garrison resources to
something that sells ok, draenic dust is generally highest price,
though it's gone down a bit of late. Treasure hunter followers are
handy as well, I recruited several through the inn, so I can usually
max them out on my missions, nice when you can put 3 of them on a high
gold missions and get 1k+ for it!

Since JC got gutted with WoD I mostly just craft with my scribe, some
idiot crashed the market down to really low prices recently though,
sigh, hopefully that was one of those who have mysteriously
disappeared and it'll get back to normal again soon! Used to love
putting tons of gems on the AH as well though, the old JC was far more
fun than it is now :-(

On 20/06/2015 10:20 PM, Catriona R wrote:
>
> On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 13:16:48 +0200, "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum>
> wrote:
>
>> Den 19-06-2015 kl. 19:44 skrev Catriona R:
>>> Hmmm. For the last few weeks, whenever I've done a glyph listing on
>>> the AH, I've noticed a few distinctive names as being the current
>>> cheapest auctions which I'm undercutting, on large numbers of glyphs;
>>> no matter the time of day, these names are there. I did a listing just
>>> now and... they're not there, at all. Interesting.... ;-)
>>
>> Cool. :)
>>
>> I stopped the AH bashing completely more than a year ago.  So now I try
>> to optimize my garrison as much as possible.  5 chars yields around 3-4k
>> gold every day by vendoring most of the stuff from the bigger crates =
>> ~100k gold a month.  Of course I keep the most interesting x-mog'ish
>> items mainly for personal use. :)
>
> I love the salvage yard, yep - only got 2 lvl 100s but they both get
> good gold from vendoring stuff, or auctioning off the epics/blues.
> Trading post is decent for gold as well, convert garrison resources to
> something that sells ok, draenic dust is generally highest price,
> though it's gone down a bit of late. Treasure hunter followers are
> handy as well, I recruited several through the inn, so I can usually
> max them out on my missions, nice when you can put 3 of them on a high
> gold missions and get 1k+ for it!

6 lvl 100 give 7-10k a day in loot and vendor, inn missions unlock 
treasure hunter missions for more gold.
With 21 counter combinations you need 40 or so followers balanced to do 
the 660s with double counters easily at 100%, not that it will often 
happen since it costs a bucket of GR to roll changes but you can get a 
fair way to it. With that anything lower for gold and GR just roll in.

I run almost every mission going even the 90s just to get salvage, had a 
couple of 665 (?) drops from it early on.
Login, get loot, Oh sigh, 82 boxes to unpack on 6 alts.
Using Undermine Journal addon for prices I vendor anything under ~150g 
estimated and put those up for half or 1/3, unless it indicates 
spectacular prices then I bother to research it.
I may put something less up for AH if the 48hour price is low.

Inflated prices are mostly transmog so likely won't get the indicated in 
a hurry. No point putting the 600+ up, 150g on a 25 deposit and 50 
vendor isn't likely to pay. Or spirit, or mail.

Takes a bit of effort to vendor stuff. Keep telling myself it isn't 
losing potential gold, it is saving a lot of wasted time trying to sell 
it, just a RNG that didn't pay off much.



> Since JC got gutted with WoD I mostly just craft with my scribe, some
> idiot crashed the market down to really low prices recently though,
> sigh, hopefully that was one of those who have mysteriously
> disappeared and it'll get back to normal again soon! Used to love
> putting tons of gems on the AH as well though, the old JC was far more
> fun than it is now :-(

The JC daily from an assigned JC follower in the hut gives 125-250g a 
day for minimal mats, mostly nearer 225g and it counts to some gold in 
draenor achievement that unlocks something else. .

On 21/06/2015 8:20 PM, | || ||| ||||| || | wrote:

>> Since JC got gutted with WoD I mostly just craft with my scribe, some
>> idiot crashed the market down to really low prices recently though,
>> sigh, hopefully that was one of those who have mysteriously
>> disappeared and it'll get back to normal again soon! Used to love
>> putting tons of gems on the AH as well though, the old JC was far more
>> fun than it is now :-(
>
> The JC daily from an assigned JC follower in the hut gives 125-250g a
> day for minimal mats, mostly nearer 225g and it counts to some gold in
> draenor achievement that unlocks something else. .

Just remember to accept quest BEFORE making item, doesn't count if you 
look it up, click create on automatic then try and hand in :-(   :-)

Den 21-06-2015 kl. 12:50 skrev | || ||| ||||| || |:

> [...]
>> Since JC got gutted with WoD I mostly just craft with my scribe, some
>> idiot crashed the market down to really low prices recently though,
>> sigh, hopefully that was one of those who have mysteriously
>> disappeared and it'll get back to normal again soon! Used to love
>> putting tons of gems on the AH as well though, the old JC was far more
>> fun than it is now :-(
>
> The JC daily from an assigned JC follower in the hut gives 125-250g a
> day for minimal mats, mostly nearer 225g and it counts to some gold in
> draenor achievement that unlocks something else. .
>

7-10k a day on 6 followers?  Not bad. :)  I vendor everything except the 
610 items which I DE.  Almost all 610 items from the crates goes for 
1-2g if you vendor it which I find odd.  So I DE those as dust goes for 
2-3g at the AH.  I hit a little more than 3k gold a day.

Mebbe I should start AH'ing stuff again.  But I have to talk to Catriona 
about that so I dont cross her markets. ;)

Oh well.  I know I have some very nice xmog items in the bags.  Actually 
almost 2 guild banks full of it.  Once I have reinstalled win7 and a 
fresh WoW install I might start AH'ing the xmogs...

-- 
Peter T.

<https://www.elitedangerous.com/>

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 20:20:02 +0930, | || ||| ||||| || |
<|||||||||||||||||||||> wrote:

>6 lvl 100 give 7-10k a day in loot and vendor, inn missions unlock 
>treasure hunter missions for more gold.

I never understood why the good garrison missions had a requirement of
doing heroic dungeons to unlock them, would've been better tied to the
1k missions achievement or something. I still don't have it... maybe
with Tanaan gear it may be possible to do some more with my bf
(interestingly, normal mode lowbie dungeons counts for the bosskill
bit according to my quest progress, just need to loot the items on
heroic...)

I make good gold from having 6-7 treasure hunters and 5-6 scavengers
plus a trading post: I do all gold and resource missions then convert
resources to whatever's good value at the trading post, at one point
draenic dust was 800g a stack, easy gold when I was getting 1k+
resources from some missions :-)

>With 21 counter combinations you need 40 or so followers balanced to do 
>the 660s with double counters easily at 100%, not that it will often 
>happen since it costs a bucket of GR to roll changes but you can get a 
>fair way to it. With that anything lower for gold and GR just roll in.

I have a good number with extra bonus traits so I can usually 100%
those, rest of the time it's 90ish, good enough, even though I haven't
gone out of my way to optimise combinations, I just got a good range
of stats and hope for the best! My main has every active follower at
675, that'll do :-)

>I run almost every mission going even the 90s just to get salvage, had a 
>couple of 665 (?) drops from it early on.

Likewise, haven't had any high lvl drops for months, but the salvage
is still decent. the lower lvl bags aren't worth it though, I only do
those if I've got a free follower that can't do a 95+ mission.

>Inflated prices are mostly transmog so likely won't get the indicated in 
>a hurry. No point putting the 600+ up, 150g on a 25 deposit and 50 
>vendor isn't likely to pay. Or spirit, or mail.

I find some low lvl stuff with good stats sells, if stats are rubbish
I vendor though. High lvl gear tends to sell if blue/epic, I'm often
surprised that it does sell well, when I'd have thought there was
easier stuff available!

>The JC daily from an assigned JC follower in the hut gives 125-250g a 
>day for minimal mats, mostly nearer 225g and it counts to some gold in 
>draenor achievement that unlocks something else. .

Yeah, it's great if you get the easier ones, I don't do the craft
rings/necks though, 60/120 ore, when ore is 2-4g each, the 60 ore one
I guess pays on a cheaper ore day, the 120 one never pays enough to be
worth it (I've already got the loot gold acheivement)

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 15:49:24 +0200, "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum>
wrote:

>Den 21-06-2015 kl. 12:50 skrev | || ||| ||||| || |:
>
>> [...]
>>> Since JC got gutted with WoD I mostly just craft with my scribe, some
>>> idiot crashed the market down to really low prices recently though,
>>> sigh, hopefully that was one of those who have mysteriously
>>> disappeared and it'll get back to normal again soon! Used to love
>>> putting tons of gems on the AH as well though, the old JC was far more
>>> fun than it is now :-(
>>
>> The JC daily from an assigned JC follower in the hut gives 125-250g a
>> day for minimal mats, mostly nearer 225g and it counts to some gold in
>> draenor achievement that unlocks something else. .
>>
>
>7-10k a day on 6 followers?  Not bad. :)  I vendor everything except the 
>610 items which I DE.  Almost all 610 items from the crates goes for 
>1-2g if you vendor it which I find odd.  So I DE those as dust goes for 
>2-3g at the AH.  I hit a little more than 3k gold a day.
>
>Mebbe I should start AH'ing stuff again.  But I have to talk to Catriona 
>about that so I dont cross her markets. ;)

Lol, sell what you like, I don't have any particular markets, just a
bit of everything, and even if I did, Draenor is so high pop that
there's tons of competition in every market, so I really don't care
who else is out there undercutting me :-)

>Oh well.  I know I have some very nice xmog items in the bags.  Actually 
>almost 2 guild banks full of it.  Once I have reinstalled win7 and a 
>fresh WoW install I might start AH'ing the xmogs...

Good idea, might sell better on DMF than Draenor though, less
competition and more RPers wanting good looking gear. There's a few
transmog people on Draenor but it's a bit slow moving unless you get a
really popular item :-/

Best item I got recently was a crossrealm move though; was looking for
pets on Earthen Ring to use up the assets of a dead ironman, spotted
Hatespark the Tiny for 10k! Ridiculously cheap, even there the others
were 30k+, anyway I learned it, then caged it on Draenor and sold it
for 55k, brilliant :-D

On 21/06/2015 11:19 PM, Peter T. wrote:
> Den 21-06-2015 kl. 12:50 skrev | || ||| ||||| || |:

>> The JC daily from an assigned JC follower in the hut gives 125-250g a
>> day for minimal mats, mostly nearer 225g and it counts to some gold in
>> draenor achievement that unlocks something else. .
>>
>
> 7-10k a day on 6 followers?  Not bad. :)  I vendor everything except the
> 610 items which I DE.  Almost all 610 items from the crates goes for
> 1-2g if you vendor it which I find odd.  So I DE those as dust goes for
> 2-3g at the AH.  I hit a little more than 3k gold a day.
>
> Mebbe I should start AH'ing stuff again.  But I have to talk to Catriona
> about that so I dont cross her markets. ;)
>
> Oh well.  I know I have some very nice xmog items in the bags.  Actually
> almost 2 guild banks full of it.  Once I have reinstalled win7 and a
> fresh WoW install I might start AH'ing the xmogs...

I have several guld tabs , even after getting pretty savage regularly. 
That is just stuff like lvl20 0.5g vendor 800g regions average, put it 
up for 500 nosalenosale, but the deposit is low. And maybe a tab of 
multi k stuff that could sell, one day, maybe.

It seems like there is a limited set on the loot table, I have 5 or 6 of 
each for some high price xmogs and some others lesser items come up 
regularly. I haven't looted that many to do all loots several times 
over.  This probably means everyone else has more of those.

  I really like the UJ addon even though it needs updates regularly, 
saves a heap of wasted time checking things and gives pretty good 
results. Heatmaps and such give a good idea of  how quickly things shift.

Maybe the price is very high and everybody is fighting it out at 25k 
because someone somewhere once clicked on a ridiculous price to cross 
faction gold, or put it up to make the other 3 from alts at 18k look 
worth buying. Nobody at all is looking and buying now.


The exact level change depending on how bored
sub 600, Not 200g estimated? vendor,
600-630 vendor if more than 15 gold
630+ de
   leaves maybe 25 a day to look into, 10 of which have competition/too low
That may give you 5k a day extra, not counting multi kg randoms.

The only real problem is staying awake while you do ah and followers

I often snooze off with only 3 or 4 done, have to change order from 
bottom to top next day just to get through them.

Den 21-06-2015 kl. 15:52 skrev Catriona R:

> I never understood why the good garrison missions had a requirement of
> doing heroic dungeons to unlock them,

Isnt it enough with a tier 3 inn/tavern?  I mean...  Afaik there should 
be no reason to run heroics.  Am I wrong?

 From 
<http://ptr.wowhead.com/guides/garrisons/guide-to-garrisons-in-warlords-of-draenor#medium-plots-inn>

"Level 3 Lunarfall Inn / Frostwall Tavern: Unlocks the particularly 
lucrative treasure hunter missions."

-- 
Peter T.

<https://www.elitedangerous.com/>

On Mon, 22 Jun 2015 15:01:19 +0200, "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum>
wrote:

>Den 21-06-2015 kl. 15:52 skrev Catriona R:
>
>> I never understood why the good garrison missions had a requirement of
>> doing heroic dungeons to unlock them,
>
>Isnt it enough with a tier 3 inn/tavern?  I mean...  Afaik there should 
>be no reason to run heroics.  Am I wrong?
>
> From 
><http://ptr.wowhead.com/guides/garrisons/guide-to-garrisons-in-warlords-of-draenor#medium-plots-inn>
>
>"Level 3 Lunarfall Inn / Frostwall Tavern: Unlocks the particularly 
>lucrative treasure hunter missions."

Yes, but you have to do heroics to *get* the lvl 3 inn in the first
place... at least, I don't think enough of the quests can be done on
normal to get it? I've not even done the dungeons on normal, so
admittedly, it *might* be possible now, certainly wasn't at launch
when all the quests had to be done, now it's only half some might be,
but even half the ones in dungeons which have a lvl 100 normal version
still require heroic mode. 

I really don't understand the logic, when garrison missions are such a
total individual, solo thing, that you're forced to do dungeons to
unlock them?

On 22/06/2015 10:31 PM, Peter T. wrote:
> Den 21-06-2015 kl. 15:52 skrev Catriona R:
>
>> I never understood why the good garrison missions had a requirement of
>> doing heroic dungeons to unlock them,
>
> Isnt it enough with a tier 3 inn/tavern?  I mean...  Afaik there should
> be no reason to run heroics.  Am I wrong?
>
>  From
> <http://ptr.wowhead.com/guides/garrisons/guide-to-garrisons-in-warlords-of-draenor#medium-plots-inn>
>
>
> "Level 3 Lunarfall Inn / Frostwall Tavern: Unlocks the particularly
> lucrative treasure hunter missions."
Some of the stay a while quests to unlock it are, or at least were, 
heroic and it used to be 20 I believe, now 10

http://ptr.wowhead.com/achievement=9703/stay-awhile-and-listen#comments:id=2079690

I only mentioned the inn missions give more gold ,
I don't have it because it needs *shudder* instances

They don't seem all that lucrative but they do give more easy missions 
and more salvage
http://www.wowhead.com/missions=1.35

On Mon, 22 Jun 2015 23:36:28 +0930, | || ||| ||||| || |
<|||||||||||||||||||||> wrote:

>Some of the stay a while quests to unlock it are, or at least were, 
>heroic and it used to be 20 I believe, now 10
>
>http://ptr.wowhead.com/achievement=9703/stay-awhile-and-listen#comments:id=2079690

Yep. I got 6 done before they made it so you had to kill the boss, as
some items were actually lootable with stealth/careful play, I realise
they had to change it so people stopped abandoning group as soon as
they got their item, but it was a shame for people like me who enjoyed
the challenge of getting to things solo! 

I did discover that the bosskill part actually works on normal mode
though; got credit for a few boosting my bf through lowbie dungeons,
so hmm, will have to have another shot at getting the items from those
- the game reckons I've completed the two in Bloodmaul Slag Mines,
however the items expired long ago as I got them after the bosskill
bit got added (why do quest items need a duration on them?), so got to
do those again... *hopefully* it'll work, that'll put me to 8/10 if
so...

>I only mentioned the inn missions give more gold ,
>I don't have it because it needs *shudder* instances

Glad it's not just me! ;-) I really really have to get down to some
soon and get onto the legendary chain; I'm already 6 months behind but
urgh, hate pugging and haven't got enough friends still playing to
form a group of people I actually know. 

On 22/06/2015 10:31 PM, Peter T. wrote:
> Den 21-06-2015 kl. 15:52 skrev Catriona R:
>
>> I never understood why the good garrison missions had a requirement of
>> doing heroic dungeons to unlock them,
>
> Isnt it enough with a tier 3 inn/tavern?  I mean...  Afaik there should
> be no reason to run heroics.  Am I wrong?
>
>  From
> <http://ptr.wowhead.com/guides/garrisons/guide-to-garrisons-in-warlords-of-draenor#medium-plots-inn>
>
>
> "Level 3 Lunarfall Inn / Frostwall Tavern: Unlocks the particularly
> lucrative treasure hunter missions."
here is someone with 10 lvl 100 and lvl 3 inns quoting over 10k a day 
which is pretty much in line with my 6

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1748129-10-Characters-all-with-max-tavern-and-max-treasure-hunters

When I am doing stuff I run a high rotation and all missions. Sometimes 
none are left available which probably compensates for not having inn 
missions.
Balance varies but most have something like 6 epic mount followers 
(mission duration) 6 scavenger and 6 treasure hunter.
I try to get epic PLUS scav or treasure so they go more quickly, 2 or 3 
epics makes for short profitable missions.
It does take a lot of GR for re rolls.

One alt just has no luck at all, seriously it can't even get enough 
picks to do the mine quickly while the others have plenty.
For a long while before getting enough inn followers it had 16 of one 
counter, 1 epic, 1 scavenger, zero treasure,and when I reroll the some 
ones seem to turn up again after 2 or 3 rolls. So it doesn't harvest GR 
quickly and easily, so can't reroll much..catch 22.

Den 22-06-2015 kl. 15:25 skrev Catriona R:

> Yes, but you have to do heroics to *get* the lvl 3 inn in the first
> place...

Aahhh...!  I got my first T3 inn back in december.  Long time ago. :) 
So I cant remember how I got access to the plan for it.  But today I 
just buy the plan for any newly dinged lvl 100 char.  Maybe its 
account-wide?  Once you have got the T3 plan for the inn/tavern on one 
char you dont have to do heroics for it on other lvl 100 chars anymore.

> I really don't understand the logic, when garrison missions are such a
> total individual, solo thing, that you're forced to do dungeons to
> unlock them?

Same here.  But I dont understand why we have to complete Proving 
Grounds for access to heroics.  It has absolutely _nothing_ to do with 
heroics! :/

-- 
Peter T.

<https://www.elitedangerous.com/>

Den 22-06-2015 kl. 16:32 skrev | || ||| ||||| || |:

> http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1748129-10-Characters-all-with-max-tavern-and-max-treasure-hunters

Very intersting!  Thank you for that link. :)

> When I am doing stuff I run a high rotation and all missions. Sometimes
> none are left available which probably compensates for not having inn
> missions.
> Balance varies but most have something like 6 epic mount followers
> (mission duration) 6 scavenger and 6 treasure hunter.
> I try to get epic PLUS scav or treasure so they go more quickly, 2 or 3
> epics makes for short profitable missions.
> It does take a lot of GR for re rolls.

True.  Luckily I make loads of GR on each char every day so I spend 
those on Dwarven Bunker rush orders now and then.

> One alt just has no luck at all, seriously it can't even get enough
> picks to do the mine quickly while the others have plenty.
> For a long while before getting enough inn followers it had 16 of one
> counter, 1 epic, 1 scavenger, zero treasure,and when I reroll the some
> ones seem to turn up again after 2 or 3 rolls. So it doesn't harvest GR
> quickly and easily, so can't reroll much..catch 22.

Hehe.  I've read about this issue a few months ago before I logged.  But 
I have loads of those reroll items in my bags so maybe I should try out 
some of them on my followers.  Oh well.  I get my legendary follower 
within the next 3-4 weeks, meh thinks.

-- 
Peter T.

<https://www.elitedangerous.com/>

On Mon, 22 Jun 2015 17:21:23 +0200, "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum>
wrote:

>Den 22-06-2015 kl. 15:25 skrev Catriona R:
>
>> Yes, but you have to do heroics to *get* the lvl 3 inn in the first
>> place...
>
>Aahhh...!  I got my first T3 inn back in december.  Long time ago. :) 
>So I cant remember how I got access to the plan for it.  But today I 
>just buy the plan for any newly dinged lvl 100 char.  Maybe its 
>account-wide?  Once you have got the T3 plan for the inn/tavern on one 
>char you dont have to do heroics for it on other lvl 100 chars anymore.

Yep, all lvl 3 plans are accountwide, do it once, all characters have
access. It's people like me who didn't even do it once that are out of
luck lol. 

>> I really don't understand the logic, when garrison missions are such a
>> total individual, solo thing, that you're forced to do dungeons to
>> unlock them?
>
>Same here.  But I dont understand why we have to complete Proving 
>Grounds for access to heroics.  It has absolutely _nothing_ to do with 
>heroics! :/

Dps one doesn't, but the healing one does - it's literally, heal a
5-man group through an encounter with tough mobs! Great way to
practice before doing real groups, it's a very good simulation of what
to expect. Although the dps are unrealistically good at not standing
in the fire :-P

In <mm995i$i9s$1...@speranza.aioe.org> "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum> writes:

> Same here.  But I dont understand why we have to complete Proving 
> Grounds for access to heroics.  It has absolutely _nothing_ to do with 
> heroics! :/

Heroics don't require proving grounds -- if you have a premade group.

If you want to *randomly queue* for heroics, then yes, you need proving
grounds.  Blizzard is trying to improve the quality of random matchmaking
by ensuring that everyone is competent at playing their chosen role.

At least that's the theory; I'm sure it doesn't always work that way in
practice.  But at least they are trying.

-- 
John Gordon                   A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gor...@panix.com              B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
                                -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"

On Mon, 22 Jun 2015 15:31:43 +0100, Catriona R
<catrion...@totalise.co.uk> wrote:

>I did discover that the bosskill part actually works on normal mode
>though; got credit for a few boosting my bf through lowbie dungeons,
>so hmm, will have to have another shot at getting the items from those
>- the game reckons I've completed the two in Bloodmaul Slag Mines,
>however the items expired long ago as I got them after the bosskill
>bit got added (why do quest items need a duration on them?), so got to
>do those again... *hopefully* it'll work, that'll put me to 8/10 if
>so...

It works!! :-) Unfortunately if you once had the item and it expired,
you can't loot it again without abandoning and retaking the quest, but
Cro's Revenge is up today, so, went in on heroic with my bf (620
pally, he went prot for this) and me as 665 disc priest, early trash
packs are easy enough for us to kill with our gear lvl, head dropped,
went out and back in on normal, killed boss, boom, quest complete.
Brilliant, 7/10 for me then, and we can repeat the process when the
other quest in there spawns. 

Given how relatively easy the trash was (not like really easy, but we
were in no danger of dying), I reckon with Tanaan gear we might manage
some endbosses of normal 100 dungeons, and get far enough into heroics
for the items, maybe I will get my inn soon!

Still got to get brave and find a pug for the legendary quest
though... *sigh*.

On 23/06/2015 4:01 AM, Catriona R wrote:

> Given how relatively easy the trash was (not like really easy, but we
> were in no danger of dying), I reckon with Tanaan gear we might manage
> some endbosses of normal 100 dungeons, and get far enough into heroics
> for the items, maybe I will get my inn soon!
>
> Still got to get brave and find a pug for the legendary quest
> though... *sigh*.

Is this the full legendary or the legendary follower?
There is one. Beyond my reach.

Oh,seems it is part of the legendary quest line anyway.
a little extra incentive :-)
http://www.wowhead.com/follower=466/garona-halforcen#comments:id=2085775

I like 
http://www.wowhead.com/follower=466/garona-halforcen#comments:id=2122599
"Blizzard HAVE TO increase follower cap. With 6.1, profession followers 
have to work in small buildings all time to increase the yield. So we 
have around 19-20 active followers. I'll headhunt treasure hunter 
followers, all we get Garona and cap is still 25 followers..."

It would be nice BUT
42 counter combinations, 21 possibilities with duplicates cover all 
single counter combinations
plus 4 in garrison mine,herb, 2 profs
then they throw in double counters for the high missions so you may have 
to rotate in from the reserves pool.

looks like 'working as intended' :-)