🚀 go-pugleaf

On Sat, 9 Nov 2013 05:51:54 +0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

>In message <be5ber...@mid.individual.net> 
>  Catriona R <catrion...@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
>> Instant 90, well, ok, it's just one character so fair enough 
>
>This is just silliness. Leveling is not at all interesting, challenging,
>or rewarding. it is just a slog to max level at which point you can
>start gearing up. Making you slog 100 levels for all but one toon? No
>thanks. I've still not leveled a panda past about 35 because I just
>cannot face doing outland and northrend again.

Yet some of us do find it interesting, and think the world would be a
poorer place if everyone bypassed it on every alt, and particularly if
newer players never even saw all the storylines and places that make
the game so interesting. One boosted character is quite enough IMO.
Personally I'd have zero connection with an instant 90 character since
I'd spent no time on it, and it wouldn't feel like mine. So your view
is not the only one ;-)

>Once I get a toon to max level I should be able to start any toon I want
>at about Max-15, that I would do.

I guess perhaps fair enough if it's conditional on having a max lvl
character, but since this works for returning and new accounts with no
high lvls, one is plenty. I reckon it's more intended for
newer/returning folk than us who've been playing all along, anyway.

>The last time I ground through Northrend was for my worgen lock, and it
>will be the *last* time I do it too. I leveled my Paladin from 45ish-85
>purely tanking instances just to avoid having to do zones for the 47th
>time.

Northrend and Outland, I'm with you, although I can still find variety
by picking zones I haen't done in several years, but 1-60, no, those
were freshened up not that long ago, it's easy enough to find a path
you've not done far too many times there. Unless you levelled tons of
alts after Cataclysm; many of mine were before it so only a few have
done the redone zones. In any case, this whole thing isn't really for
altaholics (it's just a handy bonus for them), it's for people who
haven't seen everything yet, so why on earth should it give everyone a
permanent bypass to stuff they've not done and so aren't bored of?
Once works fine there.

>>and I for one still enjoy levelling, but one is a fair enough idea to
>>get people up to speed if they want it. I don't much like the idea of
>>making an instant 90 of a new character for me, as I'd have no
>>connection to it, but what I *may* do is use it on my draenei priest,
>>who is stuck at 71 atm. That being said, they said something about
>>clearing questlogs and I still have the original questchains which I
>>*believe* will lead me to Hand of A'dal/Champion of the Naaru, so tbh I
>>don't think I can risk losing those. Oh well, I'll just have to get
>>levelling the normal way, because I really really want to play that
>>character on Draenor! 
>
>I don't think it is possible to finish Hand of A'Dal anymore, even if
>you still have the quest.

It is, at least people have been doing it up until very recently. You
have to have the *original* questline, not the one which replaced it
(same quests but different quest ID markers), and I have the
originals. It may not work out, as I don't know how far on in the
chain you had to be to be able to reach the end, but I am definitely
on the right line at present, it just remains to be seen if I can get
to the end or not.

On Sun, 10 Nov 2013 01:59:57 +0930, "| || ||| ||||| || |"
<|||||||||||||||||||||> wrote:

>"Catriona R" <catrion...@totalise.co.uk> wrote in message 
>news:be6kovFg2m3U1@mid.individual.net...
>
>>>Once I get a toon to max level I should be able to start any toon I want
>>>at about Max-15, that I would do.
>>
>> I guess perhaps fair enough if it's conditional on having a max lvl
>> character, but since this works for returning and new accounts with no
>> high lvls, one is plenty. I reckon it's more intended for
>> newer/returning folk than us who've been playing all along, anyway.
>"To help new and returning players answer the call to arms on Draenor, the 
>expansion will enable anyone to instantly boost one character to level 90, 
>including a newly created character, quickly getting them up to speed and 
>ready to enjoy the latest content with their friends."
>
>I read that as any new or returning get a free 90, much like SOR gives 80 
>now
>Could be good, could be bad

Yep, I read it as *all* of us get it with the expansion though, so a
free 90 alt for people already playing (pretty sure they said as much
in the presentation), as well as helping new/returning people.

>I remember high level players complained bitterly about the fail healer
>  lockinafrock says     8-o 

Yeah I think it's always been a concern that people won't kow how to
play, think that's why there's a DK start zone-esque intro to Draenor,
so hopefully it'll teach the insta-90s a little of how to play! I've
never been keen on the idea but fair enough, I guess it's time, since
it really is too big a jump for new/returning folk to reach their
friends, so ok. It's not like levelling teaches tanks or healers how
to tank or heal anyway, so I guess on that front it's no worse than
current, although I do hope there's a decentish tutoial system for
totally new players. 10 lvls isn't long to figure out stuff like what
stats your class uses and don't stand in the fire... :-P

"Catriona R" <catrion...@totalise.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:be6kovFg2m3U1@mid.individual.net...

>>Once I get a toon to max level I should be able to start any toon I want
>>at about Max-15, that I would do.
>
> I guess perhaps fair enough if it's conditional on having a max lvl
> character, but since this works for returning and new accounts with no
> high lvls, one is plenty. I reckon it's more intended for
> newer/returning folk than us who've been playing all along, anyway.
"To help new and returning players answer the call to arms on Draenor, the 
expansion will enable anyone to instantly boost one character to level 90, 
including a newly created character, quickly getting them up to speed and 
ready to enjoy the latest content with their friends."

I read that as any new or returning get a free 90, much like SOR gives 80 
now
Could be good, could be bad

I remember high level players complained bitterly about the fail healer
  lockinafrock says     8-o 

On Sat, 9 Nov 2013 19:11:08 +0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

>In message <be6kov...@mid.individual.net> 
>  Catriona R <catrion...@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 9 Nov 2013 05:51:54 +0000 (UTC), Lewis
>> <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>
>>>In message <be5ber...@mid.individual.net> 
>>>  Catriona R <catrion...@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Instant 90, well, ok, it's just one character so fair enough 
>>>
>>>This is just silliness. Leveling is not at all interesting, challenging,
>>>or rewarding. it is just a slog to max level at which point you can
>>>start gearing up. Making you slog 100 levels for all but one toon? No
>>>thanks. I've still not leveled a panda past about 35 because I just
>>>cannot face doing outland and northrend again.
>
>> Yet some of us do find it interesting, and think the world would be a
>> poorer place if everyone bypassed it on every alt,
>
>You find it interesting, so EVERYONE should have to do it?

You don't, so everyone should skip it?

>>and particularly if newer players never even saw all the storylines and
>>places that make the game so interesting.
>
>You like lore, so everyone should like lore?

You don't, so everyone should skip it?

>>One boosted character is quite enough IMO. Personally I'd have zero
>>connection with an instant 90 character since I'd spent no time on it,
>>and it wouldn't feel like mine. So your view is not the only one ;-)
>
>But I never said "Everyone should be forced to start at 90."

But you know perfectly well that that is what would effectively
happen. Look at flying vs ground mounts. NOBODY uses the ground mount
where flying mounts are available, even though many of us find the
world more engaging when you're on the ground; the convenience just
wins every time. It'll be exactly the same with free lvl 90s for all,
and you know it. 

Oh sure, a handful of people like me will still level normally (like
I'm one of the rare holdouts who doesn't use heirlooms/monk buff while
levelling because I actually like my questchains to not go grey before
I finish them), but the vast majority won't, and will never see things
that they MIGHT actually like if they gave it a chance...

>>>Once I get a toon to max level I should be able to start any toon I want
>>>at about Max-15, that I would do.
>
>> I guess perhaps fair enough if it's conditional on having a max lvl
>> character, but since this works for returning and new accounts with no
>> high lvls, one is plenty.
>
>See, there I disagree. I don't think a new account should be able to
>boost to 90. This pretty much proves my point though, why is Blizzard
>doing this? To get new players interested in playing the *real* game,
>which starts at max-level. They know the 100 level slog is something
>fewer and fewer players are willing to do. It should be a reward for
>getting to the max level, not something everyone gets to do once
>regardless of the number of toons they play.

Absolute opposite to my view; the point is to allow new people to be
with their friends without the grind. I don't like the idea of them
skipping it all myself, but I at least see the point. Older players on
the other hand, *have* a lvl 90 to do endgame content with, so why do
they need a boost? Alts to me are something that includes the
levelling process, else, why bother?

>>>The last time I ground through Northrend was for my worgen lock, and it
>>>will be the *last* time I do it too. I leveled my Paladin from 45ish-85
>>>purely tanking instances just to avoid having to do zones for the 47th
>>>time.
>
>> Northrend and Outland, I'm with you, although I can still find variety
>> by picking zones I haen't done in several years, but 1-60, no, those
>> were freshened up not that long ago,
>
>Yeah, but you progress from 1-60 so fast it hardly matters. Seriously,
>If I really wanted to, I could probably do 60, solo, in a weekend.

Yeah, you also get through the others pretty damn fast now they've
been sped up so much. Difference is I've done them a lot more times so
it's harder work. 1-60 is fun still :-)

>Because nothing you do at low levels has the slightest effect on your
>character at max level. Not even talents. I never respeced my main
>character, so I had a talent tree that I built up based on "which skill
>sounds best right now to get me through level 32?"

I find I know how to play a character way better if I level it and use
the abilities as I get them though. Even boosting a character through
a few dungeons throws me; next time I play I suddenly have 4-5 new
abilities that I never used before, and half of them don't end up in
my mind as ones I should use, even when they are useful ones; it can
take me ages to fully realise I have the more situational ones.
Someone starting at 90 with absolutely everything new... well they're
gonna be a right mess for a while, especially if they're new to the
game.

>>>I don't think it is possible to finish Hand of A'Dal anymore, even if
>>>you still have the quest.
>
>> It is, at least people have been doing it up until very recently.
>
>Ah, good to know.
>
>>You have to have the *original* questline,
>
>I had that questline for ever, but when I race-changed to worgen,
>Blizzard tok it away.

Ouch :-( I'm not taking any risks with my character who has the
questline, as it's the *only* character I played enough at that time
to have the right quests. My current main has run through the chains,
but clearly picked them up too late as I didn't get it. From what I
can see my draenei's quests have the right IDs, so fingers crossed!

Loved the sounds of the stat and itemisation changes announced just
now; quick copy+paste from MMO-C:

   " Getting new items should be exciting. Right now it feels like you
have to do a lot of work when you get a new item.
    Hit and Expertise don't feel like a bonus, so they are now gone!
    Dodge and Parry, gone!
    Reforging, gone!
    Enchanting is still around, but fewer items can be enchanted.
There will be more enchant choices for those items.
    The number of items with gem sockets will be gone. Only one gem
slot per item. Gems are more powerful. Sockets are a bonus that don't
count towards item level budget. No more socket bonuses or meta gems.
    The stats on armor will now change based on your spec. Plate drops
and it will have whatever stats your class needs, no more Intellect
plate! No more PvP Priest Healing set and PvP Priest DPS set, just a
Priest set.
    Jewelery, cloak, trinkets, and weapons will be more role focused
and might keep stats.
    Armor will become a good tanking stat again, Spirit will be good
for healers.
    Tertiary stats are bonus stats that can appear on gear that don't
count towards the item level budget. Lifesteal, avoidance, sturdiness,
movement speed (stacks with other bonuses), cleave, and more.
    Item squish is in! All of the big jumps from old expansions and
raid tiers will be flattened.
    Your relative power won't change, just the numbers. The speed at
which you kill things won't change. You can still solo old content."


So, the best bit: armour primary stat changes with your spec. It'll be
awesome to be able to consider specs that use different stats without
having two sets of gear! The bullet points above don't mention it but
setbonuses also change with your spec so there's just a priest set, a
druid set, etc and you get whatever bonus is relevant.

The tertiary stats stuff sounds kinda cool, doesn't reduce regular
stats so just a bonus, but some nice bonuses indeed. Item squish will
take getting used to, but so long as it really doesn't make me feel
weaker in old raids and stuff, I'll live with it.

Another change I love the sound of: the old raid finder will be
expanded for anything you like, transmog runs, achievements,
worldbosses, the lot - and it's crossrealm. Think there's some addons
which do that but to have it builtin, I love that idea, might persuade
me to group up occasionally in that case! ;-)

Seems like they're doing a whole bunch of interesting things here,
some of the ite changes took me by surprise, others I think cool, was
hoping they'd do that. All seems like improvements to me anyway.

On Sat, 9 Nov 2013 23:10:09 +0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

>In message <be7lao...@mid.individual.net> 
>  Catriona R <catrion...@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 9 Nov 2013 19:11:08 +0000 (UTC), Lewis
>> <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>
>>>In message <be6kov...@mid.individual.net> 
>>>  Catriona R <catrion...@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 9 Nov 2013 05:51:54 +0000 (UTC), Lewis
>>>> <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>In message <be5ber...@mid.individual.net> 
>>>>>  Catriona R <catrion...@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> Instant 90, well, ok, it's just one character so fair enough 
>>>>>
>>>>>This is just silliness. Leveling is not at all interesting, challenging,
>>>>>or rewarding. it is just a slog to max level at which point you can
>>>>>start gearing up. Making you slog 100 levels for all but one toon? No
>>>>>thanks. I've still not leveled a panda past about 35 because I just
>>>>>cannot face doing outland and northrend again.
>>>
>>>> Yet some of us do find it interesting, and think the world would be a
>>>> poorer place if everyone bypassed it on every alt,
>>>
>>>You find it interesting, so EVERYONE should have to do it?
>
>> You don't, so everyone should skip it?
>
>I never said that. I said that once you reach max level you should be
>*able* to start any toon at about maxlevel-15. I never said it should be
>required.

Like I said, if it's available, everyone will take it, and miss out on
stuff they may find enjoyable if they actually tried it. Maybe you've
done every single questchain in every single zone, but I bet there's a
lot of people out there who haven't... and never will see some fun
stuff if the option's there to skip it. That just seems daft, and I
can well see why it's not going to be available for more than one
character. It's only, what, 3 years since they redesigned the whole
world. Can't see them wanting to make that content completely obsolete
and never even seen already. Maybe in a few more years, but not yet.

>>>>and particularly if newer players never even saw all the storylines and
>>>>places that make the game so interesting.
>>>
>>>You like lore, so everyone should like lore?
>
>> You don't, so everyone should skip it?
>
>As long as I *can* ignore lore, I will. Quests that ask me questions
>about the lore are avoided unless there's a nice list of answers on
>Wowhead. I don't care about the lore. I am not interested in the story
>of the space goats or the orcs or in what King Douchebag's wife's name
>was.

I have to ask: why do you even play, then? The story is such a big
part of the game, I find it boring as hell if I do speed levelling
runs and ignore the story, I would've quit in no time if I hadn't got
into the storyline, as without that, there's just no point to any of
it.  It's no wonder you want to skip levelling if you ignore the best
bit!

>>>>One boosted character is quite enough IMO. Personally I'd have zero
>>>>connection with an instant 90 character since I'd spent no time on it,
>>>>and it wouldn't feel like mine. So your view is not the only one ;-)
>>>
>>>But I never said "Everyone should be forced to start at 90."
>
>> But you know perfectly well that that is what would effectively
>> happen.
>
>If that is what happens, then it proves that the long slog of leveling
>is something people *don't* want to do.

Or that people are naturally lazy.

"Catriona R" <catrion...@totalise.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:be7lqmF6mk1U1@mid.individual.net...

This comes out later next year , right ?
I have been trying to organise a couple of weeks to play since last 
November, and it still isn't happening.
Other games are scenarios, wow is a 24/7 campaign, it needs preparation.
If I do get a slot this will affect allocation of objectives.
[ As an aside, SOR instant 80
  worgen druid skinner herbalist should be okay primarily as a healer??
  I don't have any high level healers  , I know it will be a complicated LTP
  Have to at least make sure to get the 80 before it comes out then the 90
  and some welfare epics, and a set of steak knives :-)
]


> So, the best bit: armour primary stat changes with your spec. It'll be
> awesome to be able to consider specs that use different stats without
> having two sets of gear! The bullet points above don't mention it but
> setbonuses also change with your spec so there's just a priest set, a
> druid set, etc and you get whatever bonus is relevant.

>
> The tertiary stats stuff sounds kinda cool, doesn't reduce regular
> stats so just a bonus, but some nice bonuses indeed. Item squish will
> take getting used to, but so long as it really doesn't make me feel
> weaker in old raids and stuff, I'll live with it.

 Sound like glyphs. A lot of games have stat manipulation and multiple 
enchants.
 A minor downside is they can get very complicated very quickly.
 A lot also have housing, garrison battles, pets, wings, multiple 
hearthstones.
 No reason not to harvest the good bits, if it can be done well.

>
> Seems like they're doing a whole bunch of interesting things here,
> some of the ite changes took me by surprise, others I think cool, was
> hoping they'd do that. All seems like improvements to me anyway.

  I felt a bit hopeful as well, but a quick nip of vinegar and lemon cured 
it.

  They seem to have a strategy of periodically upending the game, the 
changes are a game in themselves.
  The game make winning an artform, the changes make whining an artform :-)

  Bags/banks remain pathetic, and warriors are still broken :-P ( I feel 
better now )

On Sun, 10 Nov 2013 12:46:27 +0930, "| || ||| ||||| || |"
<|||||||||||||||||||||> wrote:

>"Catriona R" <catrion...@totalise.co.uk> wrote in message 
>news:be7lqmF6mk1U1@mid.individual.net...
>
>This comes out later next year , right ?

No release date but I assume summer or later. They didn't mention beta
so I guess that's not too imminent.

>I have been trying to organise a couple of weeks to play since last 
>November, and it still isn't happening.
>Other games are scenarios, wow is a 24/7 campaign, it needs preparation.
>If I do get a slot this will affect allocation of objectives.
>[ As an aside, SOR instant 80
>  worgen druid skinner herbalist should be okay primarily as a healer??
>  I don't have any high level healers  , I know it will be a complicated LTP
>  Have to at least make sure to get the 80 before it comes out then the 90
>  and some welfare epics, and a set of steak knives :-)
>]

Hehe should be alright, yeah, suggest you try Proving Grounds at 90
for healing practice if you don't want to jump straight into a pug (I
wouldn't :-))

>> The tertiary stats stuff sounds kinda cool, doesn't reduce regular
>> stats so just a bonus, but some nice bonuses indeed. Item squish will
>> take getting used to, but so long as it really doesn't make me feel
>> weaker in old raids and stuff, I'll live with it.
>
> Sound like glyphs. A lot of games have stat manipulation and multiple 
>enchants.
> A minor downside is they can get very complicated very quickly.
> A lot also have housing, garrison battles, pets, wings, multiple 
>hearthstones.
> No reason not to harvest the good bits, if it can be done well.

I saw some people on forums mentioning garrisons seem like another
game, it sounds good anyway, so I'm happy to see it! I've not really
played any other MMOs, so it's all new to me, sounds like it has
plenty potential for fun.

>> Seems like they're doing a whole bunch of interesting things here,
>> some of the ite changes took me by surprise, others I think cool, was
>> hoping they'd do that. All seems like improvements to me anyway.
>
>  I felt a bit hopeful as well, but a quick nip of vinegar and lemon cured 
>it.
>
>  They seem to have a strategy of periodically upending the game, the 
>changes are a game in themselves.
>  The game make winning an artform, the changes make whining an artform :-)
>
>  Bags/banks remain pathetic, and warriors are still broken :-P ( I feel 
>better now )

Lol :-P They're improving bags a lot, in that you don't need to keep
so much stuff in them (heirlooms/toys getting put into accountwide
panels like pets/mounts) and a bunch of UI stuff that looks like
taking the best ideas from addons. Apparently they want to try and do
the Diablo 3 transmog system (once you learn a transmog look by
finding an item, it's there forever in the UI and you don't need to
keep the item clogging up your bank) too, but haven't got it working
enough to be able to promise it, but I hope they manage that
eventually.

"Catriona R" <catrion...@totalise.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:be9c0jFh0l2U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> On Sun, 10 Nov 2013 12:46:27 +0930, "| || ||| ||||| || |"
> <|||||||||||||||||||||> wrote:
>>  worgen druid skinner herbalist should be okay primarily as a healer??
>>  I don't have any high level healers  , I know it will be a complicated 
>> LTP
>>  Have to at least make sure to get the 80 before it comes out then the 90
>>  and some welfare epics, and a set of steak knives :-)
>>]
>
> Hehe should be alright, yeah, suggest you try Proving Grounds at 90
> for healing practice if you don't want to jump straight into a pug (I
> wouldn't :-))

I would probably run up a low level first to mid levels to practise the 
healing, I would need a serious relearning of the game anyway.  I enjoy a 
masochisticaly hard lowby level as much as anything high level , and the 
newer and unusual it is the better because it isn't a grind,
just that if an instant 80 is going free...it will be used pretty much as 
soon as it gets just a tad boring.

>>> The tertiary stats stuff sounds kinda cool, doesn't reduce regular
>>> stats so just a bonus, but some nice bonuses indeed. Item squish will
>>> take getting used to, but so long as it really doesn't make me feel
>>> weaker in old raids and stuff, I'll live with it.
>>
>> Sound like glyphs. A lot of games have stat manipulation and multiple
>>enchants.
>> A minor downside is they can get very complicated very quickly.
>> A lot also have housing, garrison battles, pets, wings, multiple
>>hearthstones.
>> No reason not to harvest the good bits, if it can be done well.
>
> I saw some people on forums mentioning garrisons seem like another
> game, it sounds good anyway, so I'm happy to see it! I've not really
> played any other MMOs, so it's all new to me, sounds like it has
> plenty potential for fun.

  Oh they are, and they are ALL coming to you in wow
started as rock-bandaid-scissors
[instance phases aren't pac-man ? ]
now
paper farm games,  tamagotchi, dress ups,
soon
tower wars, guild castles with pvp raids , trench wars
sparkleponies , battlescrabble , asteroids, pong :-)

 So Wow becomes an interface to every style of game that is or was ever 
popular

 this need not be a bad thing, unless you are a rabid completionist :-)

On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 10:20:30 +0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

>In message <be7v9t...@mid.individual.net> 
>  Catriona R <catrion...@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 9 Nov 2013 23:10:09 +0000 (UTC), Lewis
>> <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

>>>As long as I *can* ignore lore, I will. Quests that ask me questions
>>>about the lore are avoided unless there's a nice list of answers on
>>>Wowhead. I don't care about the lore. I am not interested in the story
>>>of the space goats or the orcs or in what King Douchebag's wife's name
>>>was.
>
>> I have to ask: why do you even play, then? 
>
>You know that most people don't care about the lore, right? You are in a
>marked minority.

No, I don't know that.I suspect you think you're in more of a majority
than you really are...

>I play because I enjoy the game.

You'd enjoy it more if there was a reason for killing stuff. The whole
story side makes it much more interesting doing things - killing
something just for loot isn't satisfying; killing it because you know
he's an evil git, is.

>> The story is such a big part of the game,
>
>No it's not. I don't know *anything* about the story and I play the game
>just fine. I know about 10 NPCs by name, and most of those are raid
>bosses.

You're missing out bigtime then.

>> I find it boring as hell if I do speed levelling runs and ignore the
>> story, I would've quit in no time if I hadn't got into the storyline,
>> as without that, there's just no point to any of it.  It's no wonder
>> you want to skip levelling if you ignore the best bit!
>
>You like it, so it's the best part of the game? Maybe for you, not for me.

Well considering you haven't even tried it, how can you know that?
You'd enjoy the game WAY more if you did... it's not even worth
playing if everything's a bunch of faceless nameless stuff with no
story behind it.

Den 11-11-2013 14:50, Catriona R skrev:

>> You like it, so it's the best part of the game? Maybe for you, not for me.
>
> Well considering you haven't even tried it, how can you know that?
> You'd enjoy the game WAY more if you did... it's not even worth
> playing if everything's a bunch of faceless nameless stuff with no
> story behind it.

The way WoW is built up today you can skip the storyline and lore easily 
- intenionally or unintentionally.  I personally skip it especially 
because there are way too many of those "kill XX specific mobs"/"farm XX 
specific items from mobs" quests (and it gets much worse when you play 
the Outland quests!).  The boredom/repetitive quest styles while 
leveling easily drowns the storyline.  But!  If I play games like 
Baldur's gate, Deus Ex etc., I learn the lore behind it.  The gameplay 
in such games slows me down automatically. :)

When that is said.  The lore in WoW *is* quite complex!  I have given up 
keeping track of all the major npcs years ago. :)

-- 
Peter T.

<https://elite.frontier.co.uk/>

On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 15:19:38 +0100, "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum>
wrote:

>Den 11-11-2013 14:50, Catriona R skrev:
>
>>> You like it, so it's the best part of the game? Maybe for you, not for me.
>>
>> Well considering you haven't even tried it, how can you know that?
>> You'd enjoy the game WAY more if you did... it's not even worth
>> playing if everything's a bunch of faceless nameless stuff with no
>> story behind it.
>
>The way WoW is built up today you can skip the storyline and lore easily 
>- intenionally or unintentionally.  I personally skip it especially 
>because there are way too many of those "kill XX specific mobs"/"farm XX 
>specific items from mobs" quests (and it gets much worse when you play 
>the Outland quests!).  The boredom/repetitive quest styles while 
>leveling easily drowns the storyline.  But!  If I play games like 
>Baldur's gate, Deus Ex etc., I learn the lore behind it.  The gameplay 
>in such games slows me down automatically. :)
>
>When that is said.  The lore in WoW *is* quite complex!  I have given up 
>keeping track of all the major npcs years ago. :)

Well I can't keep track of them all either; I try, but it's just too
complicated. But the major storylines that are easy enough to pick up
if you don't go out of your way to ignore them? They add a lot to it
IMO, even if Lewis chooses to avoid it entirely :-P 

Just for example, Siege of Orgrimmar. Tons of people on forums etc
were really excited to be fighting Garrosh. (And a lot were really sad
to kill Nazgrim, who we've done quests for during three expansions). I
don't think epics were the sole motivation in that excitement; most
comments were along the lines that people dislike him and want him
dead! Because the story has built him up to be a pretty nasty orc! I
don't think I'm in a "minority" to find that that added to the
interest in the raid...

Den 11-11-2013 15:50, Catriona R skrev:

>> When that is said.  The lore in WoW *is* quite complex!  I have given up
>> keeping track of all the major npcs years ago. :)
>
> Well I can't keep track of them all either; I try, but it's just too
> complicated. But the major storylines that are easy enough to pick up
> if you don't go out of your way to ignore them? They add a lot to it
> IMO, even if Lewis chooses to avoid it entirely :-P
>
> Just for example, Siege of Orgrimmar. Tons of people on forums etc
> were really excited to be fighting Garrosh. (And a lot were really sad
> to kill Nazgrim, who we've done quests for during three expansions). I
> don't think epics were the sole motivation in that excitement; most
> comments were along the lines that people dislike him and want him
> dead! Because the story has built him up to be a pretty nasty orc! I
> don't think I'm in a "minority" to find that that added to the
> interest in the raid...

I guess it depends which side you play on.  I dont think many dedicated 
ally players has the same feeling about Garrosh and Nazgrim as dedicated 
horde players do. :)

-- 
Peter T.

<https://elite.frontier.co.uk/>

On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 17:37:39 +0100, "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum>
wrote:

>Den 11-11-2013 15:50, Catriona R skrev:
>
>>> When that is said.  The lore in WoW *is* quite complex!  I have given up
>>> keeping track of all the major npcs years ago. :)
>>
>> Well I can't keep track of them all either; I try, but it's just too
>> complicated. But the major storylines that are easy enough to pick up
>> if you don't go out of your way to ignore them? They add a lot to it
>> IMO, even if Lewis chooses to avoid it entirely :-P
>>
>> Just for example, Siege of Orgrimmar. Tons of people on forums etc
>> were really excited to be fighting Garrosh. (And a lot were really sad
>> to kill Nazgrim, who we've done quests for during three expansions). I
>> don't think epics were the sole motivation in that excitement; most
>> comments were along the lines that people dislike him and want him
>> dead! Because the story has built him up to be a pretty nasty orc! I
>> don't think I'm in a "minority" to find that that added to the
>> interest in the raid...
>
>I guess it depends which side you play on.  I dont think many dedicated 
>ally players has the same feeling about Garrosh and Nazgrim as dedicated 
>horde players do. :)

True about Nazgrim, can't think many Alliance who've seen what
happened to Theramore would be huge fans of Garrosh though :-P Nor if
they played the 5.1 questlines and saw him try to kill Anduin. That
was a direct piece of nastiness, even if Theramore was a bit remote to
have such an impact, since the scenario never showed how much he was
behind what happened. Plus I'd have thought all Alliance would be
delighted to raid Orgrimmar and take out the Horde's Warchief for
real! :-)

On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 22:21:46 +0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

>In message <bec5kq...@mid.individual.net> 
>  Catriona R <catrion...@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 10:20:30 +0000 (UTC), Lewis
>> <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>>You know that most people don't care about the lore, right? You are in a
>>>marked minority.
>
>> No, I don't know that.I suspect you think you're in more of a majority
>> than you really are...
>
>At one of the Blizzcon's they said only abut 10% of the players follow
>the lore, IIRC.

Depends on what extent you're talking about though, I can believe that
for folk who really follow it in detail, finding out backstories,
reading novels etc, yeah. I'd be surprised if it's anything like that
low a number who at least care a little about the major characters
though. Way more than 10% hate Garrosh's guts (or alternatively, think
he's really cool!) IMO. My bf doesn't follow lore in particular, but
he has opinions about major characters and storylines, and I think the
majority would.

>>>I play because I enjoy the game.
>
>> You'd enjoy it more if there was a reason for killing stuff.
>
>No I wouldn't, but thanks for telling me what I would and would not like.

You don't know you wouldn't though, you haven't tried it :-P

>>>> I find it boring as hell if I do speed levelling runs and ignore the
>>>> story, I would've quit in no time if I hadn't got into the storyline,
>>>> as without that, there's just no point to any of it.  It's no wonder
>>>> you want to skip levelling if you ignore the best bit!
>>>
>>>You like it, so it's the best part of the game? Maybe for you, not for me.
>
>> Well considering you haven't even tried it, how can you know that?
>> You'd enjoy the game WAY more if you did... it's not even worth
>> playing if everything's a bunch of faceless nameless stuff with no
>> story behind it.
>
>Says you. Really, stop telling me what I should do to enjoy a game, OK?
>You have *absolutely* no basis for anything that you've said. You play
>the game the way you want, but don't tell me I'm playing it wrong just
>because I don't agreee with how you play.

I'm not telling you you're playing it "wrong". I'm telling you you're
missing out bigtime and shouldn't chuck away the chance to make it so
much BETTER.

Loving the sound of the new heirlooms interface:

"It's a new UI of (essentially) buttons that will "light up" when you
obtain one (or have obtained one) of the heirlooms. Click the button
and an item of that type will be generated and put into your bags."

Fully accountwide, and no need to wonder which alt has it (or mail it
around every time you switch character). Half my heirlooms barely get
used because it's too much hassle to go find them when I decide to
play a different alt! (I have 7 different characters who all want to
use the one intellect trinket I have...) I'm not so keen on the exp
boost heirlooms, given I actually enjoy levelling, but having my
weapons and trinkets available to all alts would be great, and would
probably make me actually bother to go and *get* said items, as I
don't actually have half of them, thinking it's a waste of time for
one character for a handful of levels. 

My main server is full, on two accounts, and most of the characters
are high enough level that it's really not worth getting more
heirlooms for them (18 50+, 12 70+ and 8 80+ who get no use at all
from most of them). But alts on other servers... now there's another
matter! I've got a cute little gnome priest all alone on one server,
would quite like to load her up with heirlooms and have a blast from
time to time, but I can't get at them right now, due to wrong server
(not enough slots to reroll her over on my main server). 

Btw thinking of alts and servers, these connected realms give a lovely
boost to anyone who wants more than 11 characters on one server btw:
join a connected realm and you can have 11 on each member realm, up to
the max of 50 per account, if you find a cluster of 5 realms. I'm a
little jealous, as my realm will most likely never be connected, due
to its insane population... oh well, at least having alts elsewhere
gives me someplace to go when I can't be bothered sitting through the
1 hour queue each evening the first few weeks of new patches :-P

"Catriona R" <catrion...@totalise.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:bek9kbFpt65U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> Loving the sound of the new heirlooms interface:
>
> "It's a new UI of (essentially) buttons that will "light up" when you
> obtain one (or have obtained one) of the heirlooms. Click the button
> and an item of that type will be generated and put into your bags."
>
> Fully accountwide, and no need to wonder which alt has it (or mail it
> around every time you switch character). Half my heirlooms barely get
> used because it's too much hassle to go find them when I decide to
> play a different alt! (I have 7 different characters who all want to
> use the one intellect trinket I have...) I'm not so keen on the exp
> boost heirlooms, given I actually enjoy levelling, but having my
> weapons and trinkets available to all alts would be great, and would
> probably make me actually bother to go and *get* said items, as I
> don't actually have half of them, thinking it's a waste of time for
> one character for a handful of levels.
>
> My main server is full, on two accounts, and most of the characters
> are high enough level that it's really not worth getting more
> heirlooms for them (18 50+, 12 70+ and 8 80+ who get no use at all
> from most of them). But alts on other servers... now there's another
> matter! I've got a cute little gnome priest all alone on one server,
> would quite like to load her up with heirlooms and have a blast from
> time to time, but I can't get at them right now, due to wrong server
> (not enough slots to reroll her over on my main server).
>
> Btw thinking of alts and servers, these connected realms give a lovely
> boost to anyone who wants more than 11 characters on one server btw:
> join a connected realm and you can have 11 on each member realm, up to
> the max of 50 per account, if you find a cluster of 5 realms. I'm a
> little jealous, as my realm will most likely never be connected, due
> to its insane population... oh well, at least having alts elsewhere
> gives me someplace to go when I can't be bothered sitting through the
> 1 hour queue each evening the first few weeks of new patches :-P

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8427764143

about eu connections , blues post

Of course it wouldn't be necessary if there was a non-silly upper limit on 
things

ww1? blizzards fault
big bang? blizzards fault
spilt milk? blizzards fault
and the main oztopia servers are not ever going to ever be connected 
ever
:-) or :-(

Den 15-11-2013 03:25, | || ||| ||||| || | skrev:

> http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8427764143
>
> about eu connections , blues post

Oh.  Hakkar will be connected too.  Last time I checked in july I saw 6 
online players and around 30 items on AH on ally side. :)

-- 
Peter T.

<https://elite.frontier.co.uk/>

On Fri, 15 Nov 2013 12:07:41 +0100, "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum>
wrote:

>Den 15-11-2013 03:25, | || ||| ||||| || | skrev:
>
>> http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8427764143
>>
>> about eu connections , blues post
>
>Oh.  Hakkar will be connected too.  Last time I checked in july I saw 6 
>online players and around 30 items on AH on ally side. :)

It's already connected to Emeriss and Crushridge - between them they
has 28 players online on alliance side when I visited a week or so
back lol. I'm guessing they'll join up with a few more realms soon ;-)