🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <2dtrc6...@no-names.nerdc.ufl.edu>, rep...@oak.circa.ufl.edu writes...
>MKII is a 64-bit machine.  Therefore Atari's Jaguar and Nintendo's Project\
>Reality will be able to do pixel-perfect renditions.

Even if Nintendo WOULD (which I doubt they will), Project Reality has an
early 1995 appearing date ... and it's probably safe to say it may be later
than that in truth ...

In article <2dtrc6...@no-names.nerdc.ufl.edu> rep...@oak.circa.ufl.edu writes:
>MKII is a 64-bit machine.  Therefore Atari's Jaguar and Nintendo's Project\
>Reality will be able to do pixel-perfect renditions.  But will Nintendo?
>Hell no!  Baraka will probably knock sweat off of his opponent with his
>blade fury.  Everyone please join me in extending a heart felt FUCK YOU
>to Nintendo.  An exciting contender is Atari's mega machine the Jaguar.
>Available now, it will be able to do a perfect MKII.  But will it?  I think
>it might because Atari's Pit Fighter was kind of violent, and besides,
>Atari will need the sales to repair their terrible reputation.  Now all
>we need is for Acclaim to sign with Atari - unless Midway decides to program
>their own home games (PLEEEEEEEEASE, Midway!!!!!!)  
[stuff deleted]

I agree that Nintendo will never go anywhere with this thing.  Not only 
can't the SNES handle it, but they'll have to tone down the fatalities 
and moves even MORE...  (bet they wouldn't even have the screaming/flaming
skeleton with Scorpion's fatality).  I really hope Acclaim doesn't get to
write it for any system...  I've never been impressed with their games, and
especially not their conversions.  (Hrm, let's see, on the SNES we'll give
it awesome sound and graphics but make the gameplay crappy, on the Genesis
we'll keep the gameplay but screw the other stuff...)  Especially on the
SNES version, they could have done much better with the original MK than
they did.  I wonder if they bothered to playtest it, or if they just said
"hell, it's Mortal Kombat, people will buy it".

>-REPTILE

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Come with me to my pretty, pretty    | dark...@netsys.com
 pain cave!"                          | Sysop: The Astral Plane (205)461-9720
   --Wayne & Garth, "Pain Cave"       | Huntsville, Alabama

In article <2dtrc6...@no-names.nerdc.ufl.edu> , rep...@oak.circa.ufl.edu
writes:
> With MKII's rapid success, you can bet it'll be on home systems pretty
> soon.  Here are the facts:
> 
> MKII is a 64-bit machine.  Therefore Atari's Jaguar and Nintendo's Project
> Reality will be able to do pixel-perfect renditions.

Could you please site sources for your "facts?" The Williams T-unit CPU board
found in Mortal Kombat II is not 64-bit in _any_ aspect. Let's try
illuminating the details:

The main CPU is a Texas Instruments TMS34010-50, bring run at 48MHz. Some
facts from the TMS34010 User's Guide:
	The register file is all 32-bits wide.
	The external bus is 16-bits wide, although it is triply-multiplexed. (Wacky.)
	Addressing is 32-bits wide, but 4-bits describe the bit field to extract, and
two bits are not used externally, so it's 26-bits wide, although each external
address represents a 16-bit word, so it can address 128 megabytes of external
addressing.

In addition to the 34010, the T-unit CPU board contains a custom DMA
controller (image bus 32-bits wide) and a FPGA (field-programmable gate array)
that appears to handle the memory map. Graphics are 256 colors (8-bit) only.

MKII contains 1 megabyte of code ROM and 12 megabytes of image data.

> The superb sound you hear in MKII is brought to you courtesy of DCS - 
> digitally compressed sound.  Whether a non CD based system could duplicate
> this sound is currently unknown.  I am really looking to Atari for this
> one.  It's a shot in the dark, but the system does have the capability
> to do it.  Nintendo could do it but won't.

The DCS sound board contains an Analog Devices ADSP2105KP-40. The Atari Jaguar
does contains a custom DSP (in the Jerry chip), although I don't know enough
of it's features to compare it to the ADSP-2105, although I suspect that it
could decompress digital data as quickly enough. Given the name of the system
(DCS), I would assume that the main focus of this system is to save on ROM,
although the DCS board in MKII contains 3 megabytes of ROM.

For comparison's sake, MKI had only 6 megabytes of image data ROM, 768K of
sound ROM, and 64 colors (6-bit, although I suspect that this was only a per
object restriction).

I believe that any home system could have a rendition of MKII on it, although
some would be "better" than others from a technical stand-point.

I don't think that technical details really have anything to do with the
quality of enjoyment in a video game, and I really wish that the marketing
guys would just drop the whole "number of bits, number of MIPS"-type hype, as
it doesn't mean a thing, and only serves to confuse consumers.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-  Alexander M. Rosenberg  - INTERNET: al...@apple.com      - Yoyodyne    -
-  330 Waverley St., Apt B - UUCP:ucbvax!apple!alexr        - Propulsion  -
-  Palo Alto, CA 94301     -                                - Systems     -
-  (415) 329-8463          - Nobody is my employer so       - :-)         -
-  (408) 974-3110          - nobody cares what I say.       -             -

In article <1993Dec6.0...@gallant.apple.com>, Alexander M. Rosenberg <al...@apple.com> writes:
> In article <2dtrc6...@no-names.nerdc.ufl.edu> , rep...@oak.circa.ufl.edu
> writes:
>> With MKII's rapid success, you can bet it'll be on home systems pretty
>> soon.  Here are the facts:
>> 
>> MKII is a 64-bit machine.  Therefore Atari's Jaguar and Nintendo's Project
>> Reality will be able to do pixel-perfect renditions.
> 
> Could you please site sources for your "facts?" The Williams T-unit CPU board
> found in Mortal Kombat II is not 64-bit in _any_ aspect. Let's try
> illuminating the details:
> 
> The main CPU is a Texas Instruments TMS34010-50, bring run at 48MHz. Some
> facts from the TMS34010 User's Guide:
> 	The register file is all 32-bits wide.
> 	The external bus is 16-bits wide, although it is triply-multiplexed. (Wacky.)
> 	Addressing is 32-bits wide, but 4-bits describe the bit field to extract, and
> two bits are not used externally, so it's 26-bits wide, although each external
> address represents a 16-bit word, so it can address 128 megabytes of external
> addressing.
> 
> In addition to the 34010, the T-unit CPU board contains a custom DMA
> controller (image bus 32-bits wide) and a FPGA (field-programmable gate array)
> that appears to handle the memory map. Graphics are 256 colors (8-bit) only.
> 
> MKII contains 1 megabyte of code ROM and 12 megabytes of image data.

Just an aside, only a high-definition TV can take real advantage of ANY system
over 32-bits, so 64-bit systems are (at present) a bit of overkill, so MKII
and Atari Jaguar wouldn't be the incredible leap yet, since (as far as I know)
HDTV hasn't reached the marketplace...(at least, not for anything a college
student can afford!)...give it about 3 years, but by then, you could have a
combination PC/CDi/Game System/Hi-Def Montior, but I'm looking ahead...
Reality check over...

Keith N.h.			sl...@cc.usu.edu
"Utah, I can't believe I'm still in Utah..."

rep...@oak.circa.ufl.edu writes:

>With MKII's rapid success, you can bet it'll be on home systems pretty
>soon.  Here are the facts:

>MKII is a 64-bit machine.  Therefore Atari's Jaguar and Nintendo's Project\
>Reality will be able to do pixel-perfect renditions.  But will Nintendo?
  First of all, I have heard it is 32bit, and the gfx are only 24bit.  
But those numbers realy dont matter with shit.  Since after 24bits the 
human cant distinguish that many colors, and itsj ust a matter of
how fast you manipulate those bits.

)Hell no!  Baraka will probably knock sweat off of his opponent 
)with his
>blade fury.  Everyone please join me in extending a heart felt FUCK YOU
>to Nintendo.  An exciting contender is Atari's mega machine the Jaguar.
>Available now, it will be able to do a perfect MKII.  But will it?  I think
>it might because Atari's Pit Fighter was kind of violent, and besides,
>Atari will need the sales to repair their terrible reputation.  Now all
>we need is for Acclaim to sign with Atari - unless Midway decides to program
>their own home games (PLEEEEEEEEASE, Midway!!!!!!)  
  Yes, Nintendo would NEVER let MK II on their system (If it EVER comes 
to be.)  And yes, the Jag could do it.  

>The superb sound you hear in MKII is brought to you courtesy of DCS - 
>digitally compressed sound.  Whether a non CD based system could duplicate
>this sound is currently unknown.  I am really looking to Atari for this
>one.  It's a shot in the dark, but the system does have the capability
>to do it.  Nintendo could do it but won't.  Sega's Saturn is under wraps

>and they keep changing the specs on it, but in its current form it doesn't
>stand a chance on reproducing MKII to justice.  If anyone from Atari is 
  In its current form?? In its current form the Saturn will be able of 
producing the SAME gfx found in Virtua Fighters/Virtua Racing and Daytona 
Racers and Sonic the Arcade.  Manipulating 3D gfx is a LOT harder then 
2D.  The Sega CD could do MK II, it just wouldnt look as nice.  Any 
system with a reasonable processor (32 bit) and 24bit gfx capabiltie can 
do MK II.  

>within the sound of my voice, make a perfect (Yes, with all the blood and
>fatalities) version of MKII!!!!!  Atari could theoretically have this out
>before the other guys even have another system out.  If they accomplish this,
>they will be the video game leader.  So start calling Atari and telling
>them to do it, call Acclaim and tell them to do it, and call Midway and
>tell them to tell Acclaim to fuck themselves and program MKII for home 
>systems themselves.  If enough gamers speak, we'll be ripping off torsos in
>our living rooms in no time!

>-REPTILE

   Well, this would be interesting.  Unfortunatley, it would take at 
least a year to produce, and I doubt an agreement has been signed yet.  
You appear to be a big Jag fan.  Well, I am undecided, but I dont like 
how Atari claims its a 64 bit system when it actualy uses a 16bit 68000 
(Same found in the Genesis and Macintosh) as its cpu.  Yes, it has a 64 
bit data path and special chips for gfx and stuff, but that 68000 (Which 
makes it a cheap system to produce) is going to hurt it in the long run.

In <1993Dec6.1...@cc.usu.edu> sl...@cc.usu.edu writes:

>Just an aside, only a high-definition TV can take real advantage of ANY system
>over 32-bits, so 64-bit systems are (at present) a bit of overkill, so MKII
>and Atari Jaguar wouldn't be the incredible leap yet, since (as far as I know)
>HDTV hasn't reached the marketplace...(at least, not for anything a college
>student can afford!)...give it about 3 years, but by then, you could have a
>combination PC/CDi/Game System/Hi-Def Montior, but I'm looking ahead...
>Reality check over...

>Keith N.h.			sl...@cc.usu.edu
>"Utah, I can't believe I'm still in Utah..."



How did you draw a connection between the bus width and the screen resolution?

Although it's true that a 64-bit bus could speed up graphics operations on a
larger screen, it's untrue that 64-bits can yield no real advantage over
32-bits on standard TVs.  Resolution on the TV is limited, but not complexity
of image.  64-bit processors (if designed and used properly) can certainly
handle more complex images than 32-bit processors.


---Xeno
-- 
Gary L Snethen
xe...@iastate.edu

>You appear to be a big Jag fan.  Well, I am undecided, but I dont like 
>how Atari claims its a 64 bit system when it actualy uses a 16bit 68000 
>(Same found in the Genesis and Macintosh) as its cpu.  Yes, it has a 64 
>bit data path and special chips for gfx and stuff, but that 68000 (Which 
>makes it a cheap system to produce) is going to hurt it in the long run.

Well hell.  I don't know WHAT to think about the Jag anymore.  I've
heard so much contradictory info on it it's simply not funny.  Here's
a quick list :

        1) two RISC chips
        2) one 64bit RISC chip and a 32bit DSP(?) chip
        3) a 68000 (16bit)
        4) 68000 for handling I/O, whateverthehell that means.

There's more, I'm not going to list it all..

Oh yeah : 

       If you think they still make Macs with 68000 processors,
          you just don't know what you're talking about.

I think the most recent mac with a 68000 is the Mac SE, or maybe the
Mac Classic.  (Dunno if the Classic II has 68000 or 68020, but in
any case noone buys those :) )

-- 
| Mitch Burton      | Think of it  |
| pel...@netcom.com | as evolution |
| pel...@io.com     | in action    |

In article <xeno.75...@pv6f02.vincent.iastate.edu>, xe...@iastate.edu (Gary L Snethen) writes:
> In <1993Dec6.1...@cc.usu.edu> sl...@cc.usu.edu writes:
> 
>>Just an aside, only a high-definition TV can take real advantage of ANY system
>>over 32-bits, so 64-bit systems are (at present) a bit of overkill, so MKII
>>and Atari Jaguar wouldn't be the incredible leap yet, since (as far as I know)
>>HDTV hasn't reached the marketplace...(at least, not for anything a college
>>student can afford!)...give it about 3 years, but by then, you could have a
>>combination PC/CDi/Game System/Hi-Def Montior, but I'm looking ahead...
>>Reality check over...
> 
>>Keith N.h.			sl...@cc.usu.edu
>>"Utah, I can't believe I'm still in Utah..."
> 
> 
> 
> How did you draw a connection between the bus width and the screen resolution?
> 
> Although it's true that a 64-bit bus could speed up graphics operations on a
> larger screen, it's untrue that 64-bits can yield no real advantage over
> 32-bits on standard TVs.  Resolution on the TV is limited, but not complexity
> of image.  64-bit processors (if designed and used properly) can certainly
> handle more complex images than 32-bit processors.
> 
> 
> ---Xeno
> -- 
> Gary L Snethen
> xe...@iastate.edu

Ah, but you get no distinct advantage (considering the price) of 64-bit systems
over a 32-bit as far as cost-effectiveness is concerned, as well as the fact
that the Jaguar might not be a REAL 64-bit system (pleading ignorance on that
one, but a post earlier up the list by de...@netcom.com makes me wonder...),
makes me wonder...now if we could get MK II on CD-i or 3DO...hmmm...Besides,
you said so yourself..."designed and used properly", which probably won't be
for a year or two (i.e. don't get carried away with euphoria guys!)

Eagerly awaiting MK for IBM...(which will HAVE to be cheaper than SNES or Sega,
and probably Game Boy and Game Gear as well!!!...any wonder I'm cynical...)

Keith N.h.				sl...@cc.usu.edu
"Utah...I can't believe I'm still in Utah..."

In article <peldorCH...@netcom.com>, pel...@netcom.com (Mitch Burton) writes:
>>You appear to be a big Jag fan.  Well, I am undecided, but I dont like 
>>how Atari claims its a 64 bit system when it actualy uses a 16bit 68000 
>>(Same found in the Genesis and Macintosh) as its cpu.  Yes, it has a 64 
>>bit data path and special chips for gfx and stuff, but that 68000 (Which 
>>makes it a cheap system to produce) is going to hurt it in the long run.
> 
> Well hell.  I don't know WHAT to think about the Jag anymore.  I've
> heard so much contradictory info on it it's simply not funny.  Here's
> a quick list :
> 
>         1) two RISC chips
>         2) one 64bit RISC chip and a 32bit DSP(?) chip
>         3) a 68000 (16bit)
>         4) 68000 for handling I/O, whateverthehell that means.

Maybe if we vivisected one...? :>  Seriously, does anyone KNOW, like a game
or tech magazine article ref. about it?  (Popular Science put it as a sideline
to Panasonic's 3DO, so I really know nothing about it)

> 
> There's more, I'm not going to list it all..
> 
> Oh yeah : 
> 
>        If you think they still make Macs with 68000 processors,
>           you just don't know what you're talking about.
> 
> I think the most recent mac with a 68000 is the Mac SE, or maybe the
> Mac Classic.  (Dunno if the Classic II has 68000 or 68020, but in
> any case noone buys those :) )

People buy Macs?  Weird...:>  If Macs are so much easier to use, why do you
have to go to so many steps to eject a disk from a disk drive (pull disk icon
over to trash, etc) when you just hit a button for IBMs?  (Ironic observation
of the day guys, and don't bother treating this paragraph seriously...I
didn't!) :>

Keith N.h.				sl...@cc.usu.edu
"Utah...I can't believe I'm still in Utah..."
> 
> -- 
> | Mitch Burton      | Think of it  |
> | pel...@netcom.com | as evolution |
> | pel...@io.com     | in action    |