🚀 go-pugleaf

Well, I tend to play to win, not to 'beat', unless I'm in a really
bad mood...

I remember when I first started and I had NO idea how to play...
good thing I was palying with some nice people, or I might have stayed
with SF2...

I usually find that the former way of playing is more fun, and I'm always
willing to give out freely the moves, although not the fatalities... ;^)

Spencer Olson
ols...@elof.iit.edu
sol...@imsa.edu

In <1993Sep8.0...@hal.depaul.edu> jleo...@falcon.depaul.edu (Jim R. Leonard) writes:

>	- Playing to win means playing the game in an oppurtunity-taking
>manner without exploiting true weaknesses of your opponent (i.e., if I just
>started playing 2 weeks ago, I'm not going to know how to block throwing).
>When I play, I play with "friendly" people; that is, my opponent test the 
>waters with a quarter or two to see how good we are, and if one is greatly
>unbalanced, someone teaches the other something new about the game they didn't
>know.  This may seem stupid, but it makes for more involved gameplay with less
>frustration.

>	- Playing to "beat people" means just that--using every lame, cheesy,
>cheap, cornering, throwing, and generally exploiting-the-weaknesses-of-the
>game-or-your-opponent moves in order to win as quickly as possible.  Whenever
>I fight one of these people, and it's clear I'm worse, the game is over in
>about 20 seconds with a 2:0 win on his side.  Is this considered fun?
>I did this once on someone who was worse than me, and the look of frustration
>on his face just wasn't worth it.

I think that I am in the middle, I start out playing fair, but if I find a
weakness, I will hit it (not untill he is dead ... just to weaken him).

I was playing at an arcade that is not my home arcade and just got PISSED OFF
by those who know all of those shitty moves that are made for those who want
to "beat people". (I think I am above average, so these moves are REAL CHEAP!)

At the arcade that I am used to, everyone plays fair (for the most part), I 
would rather lose a game and laugh, than win a game with a cheap ass player, 
being upset about the tactics of the other.

I think that others may agree with this.

=============================================================================
Jesse Waldack - University of Minnesota        <<<<<<<<<The Flash>>>>>>>>>
wald...@student.tc.umn.edu	               fl...@mermaid.micro.umn.edu
					       
                                               Sysop of The Dragon's Nest 
                                                      Bloomington, MN
                                                       (612)887-2147
=============================================================================

In article <CD0r7...@news2.cis.umn.edu> fl...@moby.micro.umn.edu (Jesse R. Waldack) writes:
>In <1993Sep8.0...@hal.depaul.edu> jleo...@falcon.depaul.edu (Jim R. Leonard) writes:
>
>>	- Playing to win means playing the game in an oppurtunity-taking
>>manner without exploiting true weaknesses of your opponent (i.e., if I just
>>started playing 2 weeks ago, I'm not going to know how to block throwing).
>>When I play, I play with "friendly" people; that is, my opponent test the 
>>waters with a quarter or two to see how good we are, and if one is greatly
>>unbalanced, someone teaches the other something new about the game they didn't
>>know.  This may seem stupid, but it makes for more involved gameplay with less
>>frustration.
>
>>	- Playing to "beat people" means just that--using every lame, cheesy,
>>cheap, cornering, throwing, and generally exploiting-the-weaknesses-of-the
>>game-or-your-opponent moves in order to win as quickly as possible.  Whenever
>>I fight one of these people, and it's clear I'm worse, the game is over in
>>about 20 seconds with a 2:0 win on his side.  Is this considered fun?
>>I did this once on someone who was worse than me, and the look of frustration
>>on his face just wasn't worth it.
>
	I play the game very defensively, I use Sonya and just counter-attack
whatever they do to me. (ex. If anyone leg sweeps me, I can easily leg-throw 
them.) I almost never throw and NEVER use the infamous leg-throw bug.
Unfortunately, the version in the arcade I go to is a version 2.0 and there are
so many combos in there it's unbelievable. But I don't call any of them cheap,
unless it's impossible to get out of, like the leg-throw or Sub-Zero's freeze,
throw, freeze, throw, etc. bit. They just happen to be part of the machine.
I've told any one who tries to throw me why they don't seem to be able to, and 
some have learned the correct way to block. Whenever a newcomer to the game 
comes along, if they don't know all of the moves, I try to show them what I 
know about that player and some of the general strategies that all players can
use. If a player is of a reasonable level, I use counter-attack whenever I
want, but if he is not as good, I use them less, and sometimes let them go
totally, maybe even letting him take a round. I do keep a few secrets, although
it's nothing that will totally change the outcome of a game.  I always
congratulate a player that beats me fairly. I adjust to certain patterns a
player gets into, and I do exploit them to a point. If they say that the move
is cheap, I just say that it is a fair counter-move and that if they didn't
do the move that I countered, nothing would have happened. I consider myself
one of the best players of the game at the arcade I'm at, (20+ wins in a row
on a regular basis) but I know that others that know how to properly attack
and counter-attack can knock me off on a regular basis when I make mistakes.
I get mad when I lose sometimes, but it is more being mad at myself for making
a mistake than anything else.

fl...@moby.micro.umn.edu (Jesse R. Waldack) writes:

>In <1993Sep8.0...@hal.depaul.edu> jleo...@falcon.depaul.edu (Jim R. Leonard) writes:

>>	- Playing to win means playing the game in an oppurtunity-taking
>>manner without exploiting true weaknesses of your opponent (i.e., if I just
>>started playing 2 weeks ago, I'm not going to know how to block throwing).
>>When I play, I play with "friendly" people; that is, my opponent test the 
>>waters with a quarter or two to see how good we are, and if one is greatly
>>unbalanced, someone teaches the other something new about the game they didn't
>>know.  This may seem stupid, but it makes for more involved gameplay with less
>>frustration.

>>	- Playing to "beat people" means just that--using every lame, cheesy,
>>cheap, cornering, throwing, and generally exploiting-the-weaknesses-of-the
>>game-or-your-opponent moves in order to win as quickly as possible.  Whenever
>>I fight one of these people, and it's clear I'm worse, the game is over in
>>about 20 seconds with a 2:0 win on his side.  Is this considered fun?
>>I did this once on someone who was worse than me, and the look of frustration
>>on his face just wasn't worth it.

>I think that I am in the middle, I start out playing fair, but if I find a
>weakness, I will hit it (not untill he is dead ... just to weaken him).

>I was playing at an arcade that is not my home arcade and just got PISSED OFF
>by those who know all of those shitty moves that are made for those who want
>to "beat people". (I think I am above average, so these moves are REAL CHEAP!)

>At the arcade that I am used to, everyone plays fair (for the most part), I 
>would rather lose a game and laugh, than win a game with a cheap ass player, 
>being upset about the tactics of the other.

>I think that others may agree with this.

I generally agree.  There are people out there that insist on just doing the
same thing to every player.  (Try to imagine the scenario Jesse...)

A player enters a tournament on v. 5 or 6 machines (where two hits in the air
will turn the gravity up and drop the character down before another hit can be
done) and takes Sonya throughout.  In the matchup all he does is first test
to see if the player can get out of the leg grab pattern.  If that doesn't
work, he just foot sweeps.  Surprise, surprise, he wins.  Question:  Did this
person have any friends or anyone who sympathized with him?  Answer:  No.
He tried to get some of us to empathize with him when an opponent couldn't
get past the leg grab phase.  He failed.
Not out of bitterness, but out of pity, I hope I don't see this person again.

::: All I demand is those I work for,
::: Those I give, all my skills,
::: All my time and pain,
::: Those that I entertain,
::: Give me the same, compassion, in return.
::: But the fools never learn.
	-Chess:  End of "Florence Quits" prelude to "Pity the Child"

I never got a chance to play him, but I knew how to do it.  I think they should
also weigh in the quality of the person playing.  I think that in a tournament,
the final matches should be decided by a set of several rounds.  What I'd
love to play in is a tournament where the second to the last round is the
best of three matchups (different characters each time for each player) and
the final round the best of the seven mirror matches.  This way, there is
no such thing as unfairness or inequality, outside of the players.

According to an arcade employee I talked to here in Minnesota, he intends to
run an MK tournament weekly (on Mondays) and have various prizes depending
on the size of the tourney.  I'm intending to visiting occasionally.

Someone yell when the hack comes out of MK where all of the maneuvers can be
done in the air.  It will happen, it's just a matter of when.

Also, can we hold off on the comments regarding the home versions of MK until
Mortal Monday when the commercial market can generate some input.

Greetings from Minnesota, MKers.
..Brett.

I usually play to "win".  I really like it when I start playing rounds
with people who can beat me at least 25% of the time.  If they're not
so good, I might switch from my best character (Scorpion) to some of
my standbys (Cage, Liu Kang), and if that doesn't work, then I'll
really scrape my personal "bottom of the barrel" (Kano, Sonya).

I find the most satisfaction comes from beating the crap out of people
who are obviously playing to "beat".  Whenever a new player chooses
Sonya, I'll play a very defensive game at first (get a bit of damage
on them, and then stand back).  If I see that they're a "Sonya-scum",
I'll start mopping up the floor with them.  If/when they land a leg
throw, I watch in amusement as they try to repeat the throw, then:
Back-Back Lowpunch... *TWUNK* "Get over here!" *SMASH*.  I love it :)

Sometimes I'll even say, in a very arrogant voice, "Don't even try
it!"  Just to drive the point home.

While I'm on the subject of cheesy moves, can somebody help me out
with a move that really tends to be my Achilles Heel?  When I'm
playing Scorpion, the Mighty Super-Slow One, people tend to jump over
my head and get a throw in before I can turn around.  I know you can
counter with a spear if the jump is initiated at close range (so that
they're landing far away from you), but if they jump from a distance
and land in close behind you, it's hard to get the spear to launch.
Anybody care to share their thoughts on this one?

						Gary Parnes

/============================================================================\
| "You're obviously misinformed.  Everything    | Gary Parnes                |
|  EAST of the San Andreas Fault is going to    | Computer Science Engineer  |
|  fall into the ATLANTIC Ocean."               | University of Pennsylvania |
|  * INTERNET: par...@grad1.cis.upenn.edu *     | *NOT* Penn State, Dammit   |
\============================================================================/

In article <145...@netnews.upenn.edu> par...@gradient.cis.upenn.edu (Gary Parnes) writes:
>
>While I'm on the subject of cheesy moves, can somebody help me out
>with a move that really tends to be my Achilles Heel?  When I'm
>playing Scorpion, the Mighty Super-Slow One, people tend to jump over
>my head and get a throw in before I can turn around.  I know you can
>counter with a spear if the jump is initiated at close range (so that
>they're landing far away from you), but if they jump from a distance
>and land in close behind you, it's hard to get the spear to launch.
>Anybody care to share their thoughts on this one?
>

The simplest way to get them to stop doing this is to do a coupla of
high punches as soon as you turn around, it's easier to time than a
spear and if you hit them just right it will pop them up into the
air:>


>						Gary Parnes
>
>/============================================================================\
>| "You're obviously misinformed.  Everything    | Gary Parnes                |
>|  EAST of the San Andreas Fault is going to    | Computer Science Engineer  |
>|  fall into the ATLANTIC Ocean."               | University of Pennsylvania |
>|  * INTERNET: par...@grad1.cis.upenn.edu *     | *NOT* Penn State, Dammit   |
>\============================================================================/
>


-- 
--
Nothing in Moderation		 /	za...@wpi.wpi.edu
Do what you do... Do it well	/	Benjamin C. Lee

jleo...@falcon.depaul.edu (Jim R. Leonard) writes:

>I recently got really pissed off playing a 14-year-old (I'm 22) getting beaten
>again and again; and although you might think this is a whiney post about
>"cornering sucks" and "throws suck" and so forth, it's not, because I'm an
>average to good player...

>The point is this:  Do you guys play to beat people or to win?  Let's look at
>those two distinctions:

>	- Playing to win means playing the game in an oppurtunity-taking
>manner without exploiting true weaknesses of your opponent (i.e., if I just
>started playing 2 weeks ago, I'm not going to know how to block throwing).
>When I play, I play with "friendly" people; that is, my opponent test the 
>waters with a quarter or two to see how good we are, and if one is greatly
>unbalanced, someone teaches the other something new about the game they didn't
>know.  This may seem stupid, but it makes for more involved gameplay with less
>frustration.

>	- Playing to "beat people" means just that--using every lame, cheesy,
>cheap, cornering, throwing, and generally exploiting-the-weaknesses-of-the
>game-or-your-opponent moves in order to win as quickly as possible.  Whenever
>I fight one of these people, and it's clear I'm worse, the game is over in
>about 20 seconds with a 2:0 win on his side.  Is this considered fun?
>I did this once on someone who was worse than me, and the look of frustration
>on his face just wasn't worth it.

    I tend to avoid resorting to cheese like throwing constantly (mainly
because I still can't throw).  But I NEVER play to beat people unless
I'm really, really, REALLY pissed, which doesn't happen too often.
As for characters, Sub-Zero is my fave, but I will never resort to the
cheeseball ice blast-uppercut-repeat-until-death bit (unless I'm
fighting Goro, in which case you pretty much have to).  
    While we're on the subject of cheese, here's one for the books.
Over the summer, while I was honing my MK skills, I'd end up fighting a
lot of matches against a kid who was about 11 or 12.  Almost every time
we played, regardless of who he was using, he'd get me down and
literally foot sweep me to death.  Since I still had a little trouble
blocking a foot sweep, I was basically FUBAR.  Just thought I'd mention
that.

-mu...@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu

Jim R. Leonard (jleo...@falcon.depaul.edu) wrote:

: 	- Playing to "beat people" means just that--using every lame, cheesy,
: cheap, cornering, throwing, and generally exploiting-the-weaknesses-of-the
: game-or-your-opponent moves in order to win as quickly as possible.  Whenever
: I fight one of these people, and it's clear I'm worse, the game is over in
: about 20 seconds with a 2:0 win on his side.  Is this considered fun?
: I did this once on someone who was worse than me, and the look of frustration
: on his face just wasn't worth it.

: I'd like a serious discussion on this--do you guys play to win, or beat people?

Well personally, I hate playing other people.  I would much rather play the
computer.  I consider myself an above average player.  When someone asks me
if I mind if they play, then I play to win.  If one of those little
buttholes walk up and just drop thier quarter/token in the machine, then I
play to beat, mangle, slaughter, etc etc...  It all depends on the
situation, but I never walk up to machine when I do want to play against
another player with the sole intent to beat THem to death.
-- 
                      ```
                     (o o)
-----------------oOO--(_)--OOo------------------------------------------------
Joel Erdtsieck                                   Internet: joel...@netcom.com
                                                 Team-Net: 19@ME
"Choosy perverts chose GIF"                      "Phantom Shark"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------