🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <yIUA2.226$_21....@server1.news.adelphia.net>, 
tabm...@geoshitties.com says...
> > > > > No, because they are not learned behaviours.  
> > > > 
> > > > Nor is homosexuality. If it is then so is heterosexuality.
> > > 
> > > Yes, heterosexuality can be.  
> > 
> > Can be?
> 
> As with nearly everything in life, it's different in each
> situation.

ROTFL. 

> > > > Now these obviously compare since they have a victim of discrimination 
> > > > and perpetrator(s) who are abusing them. 
> > > > 
> > > > You have claimed that homosexuality can be cured. It cannot.
> > > 
> > > There is more evidence suggesting it can be cured than there is
> > > evidence that a gene is involved with it.
> > 
> > I have seen *no* evidence of "cures". I have seen *some* evidence of 
> > genetic roots. 
> 
> And I have seen that there is *no* evidence of genetic roots.  I
> *have* seen evidence of treatment. 

But have been unable to present such evidence. 

> > > > You have claimed homosexuality is wrong because homosexuals invite 
> > > > discrimination by their acts. This is comparable to any form of 
> > > > discrimination based on sex, religion, ability, race, etc. It is not the 
> > > > victim(s) that needs to change it is the perpetrator(s) of the abuse.
> > > > 
> > > > Discriminating against homosexuality is as bad as discriminating against 
> > > > someone who has blue eyes. They are both genetic. They are both natural. 
> > > > They are both immutable.
> > > 
> > > Obesity is genetic.  Alcoholism is genetic.  
> > 
> > Alcoholism is not genetic. A tendency to become addicted to certain 
> > things is. 
> 
> Yes, and it is still possible to overcome that addiction.

Overcome != cure

> > > Genetic != Good
> > 
> > Genetic !=Bad
> 
> Genetic *can* be bad.  (Rape may be caused by a gene too.)

For someone who claimed the whole homosexual gene theory was a setup by 
homosexuals you suddenly have a lot of faith in genetics. Oh well, I 
suppose at least you are not claiming some higher power to be the cause.

> 
> > > [snip rape scenario]
> > > 
> > > > Now, can you honestly say that your feelings of hatred are only for what 
> > > > he did and not against him? 
> > > 
> > > Yes, if he honestly really changed then I wouldn't hold it against him.
> > 
> > If he changed? That was not the question.
> 
> If he doesn't change, then I would agree that a change needs to
> take place.

But would your *like* him if he did not? 

This is typical, I ask a question and I am still awaiting your answer 
some four messages later. If you did not wish to answer, why did you not 
just ignore the message?

> > > If your brother/friend/son/whatever had a mental problem would you
> > > want to help him get better?  Why or why not?
> > 
> > Be more specific. Mental Problem in your terminology is anything unlike 
> > yourself. 
> 
> Really?  So I now think that women and blacks all have mental problems?
> Thanks for letting me know, I was unaware that I had such views.

You random word insertion news reader at work again there Kombat or is 
your paranoia on overdrive? :P

> > If they were like you I would definitely want them cured since 
> > they have definite faschist tendencies :P but maybe you want to clarify 
> > what you are suggesting as a mental problem and we'll take it from there. 
> 
> Let's say they had voices in their head that "made" them randomly
> beat the living daylights out of random people.

I would expect them to have been prosecuted by now and in the care of 
some institution. 

Did this order just appear one day or was it always present? If it is a 
developed disorder, was it gradual or sudden?

> > > > > > > > The action makes the person what they are. 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I don't think so.  A non-smoker is still the same person they are
> > > > > > > when they start smoking.  And then still the same person after that
> > > > > > > when they stop.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Disagree.
> > > > > 
> > > > > They are the same person doing different things.  
> > > > > If a murderer was sentenced to prison, and then he stopped,
> > > > > he is still the same man he was when he killed someone.
> > > > > He is also the same guy he was before he killed someone.
> > > > 
> > > > Wrong.
> > > 
> > > And you call it childish of me when I say similar things not
> > > marked with an IMHO :P
> > > 
> > > He's the same guy, he has all the same memories, the same
> > > DNA, the same wardrobe, the same adress, so unless he has
> > > one of those multiple or split personality disorders, I
> > > don't see how you can say he's a different person.
> > 
> > He is different. Possessions do not make a person. Life does.
> 
> You seem to have ignored all the other things I mentioned (like
> memories) so please re-read.

I have no need to. How come it is OK for you to read my comments and 
ignore the parts you choose but when someone dies the same with yours you 
tell me to read it again. Hypocrite!

Anyway - Address irrelevant to what makes a person
Wardrobe - similarly irrelevant

This is what my point was about. I did not see the point in getting into 
another discussion with you which goes nowhere. Hence my short and 
uninvolved answers.

Since you insist, 

DNA - irrelevant for the purpose of this discussion

Leaving...

memories - a memory of murder that is with him for life. Murder is only 
difficult the first time so next time he may well have a completely 
different attitude. He will have a different outlook on life. Prison will 
have had some effects on the way he is. He is different in many ways. He 
may look the same although older and may have the same possessions 
assuming he did not lose everything whilst in prison but these things are 
not relevant. Experiences change people. 

His experiences are due to actions of his choice. Therefore his actions 
made him what he was. 

You will argue this as you do everything. If I claimed the sky was blue 
you would argue it and present statistical evidence from years ago from 
biased persons to back up your claim so I expect nothing less in your 
response <sigh>

Mark.

Mark.