🚀 go-pugleaf

This is in reference to <MPG.113e18c6a...@news.demon.co.uk>, in
which a one ma...@mhetherington.demon.co.uk (Mark) wrote:
> In article <dZJA2.23$_21....@server1.news.adelphia.net>, 
> tabm...@geoshitties.com says...
> > > > No, because they are not learned behaviours.  
> > > 
> > > Nor is homosexuality. If it is then so is heterosexuality.
> > 
> > Yes, heterosexuality can be.  
> 
> Can be?

As with nearly everything in life, it's different in each
situation.

> > > Now these obviously compare since they have a victim of discrimination 
> > > and perpetrator(s) who are abusing them. 
> > > 
> > > You have claimed that homosexuality can be cured. It cannot.
> > 
> > There is more evidence suggesting it can be cured than there is
> > evidence that a gene is involved with it.
> 
> I have seen *no* evidence of "cures". I have seen *some* evidence of 
> genetic roots. 

And I have seen that there is *no* evidence of genetic roots.  I
*have* seen evidence of treatment. 

> > > You have claimed homosexuality is wrong because homosexuals invite 
> > > discrimination by their acts. This is comparable to any form of 
> > > discrimination based on sex, religion, ability, race, etc. It is not the 
> > > victim(s) that needs to change it is the perpetrator(s) of the abuse.
> > > 
> > > Discriminating against homosexuality is as bad as discriminating against 
> > > someone who has blue eyes. They are both genetic. They are both natural. 
> > > They are both immutable.
> > 
> > Obesity is genetic.  Alcoholism is genetic.  
> 
> Alcoholism is not genetic. A tendency to become addicted to certain 
> things is. 

Yes, and it is still possible to overcome that addiction.

> > Genetic != Good
> 
> Genetic !=Bad

Genetic *can* be bad.  (Rape may be caused by a gene too.)

> > [snip rape scenario]
> > 
> > > Now, can you honestly say that your feelings of hatred are only for what 
> > > he did and not against him? 
> > 
> > Yes, if he honestly really changed then I wouldn't hold it against him.
> 
> If he changed? That was not the question.

If he doesn't change, then I would agree that a change needs to
take place.

> > I wouldn't stop others from holding it against him though.
> 
> Well since the only relevant victims are your parents, maybe they share 
> your view anyway so he may as well get away with it.
> 
> > > And what do you do about the child?
> > 
> > Give it up for adoption.  (My mother is too old to have any more
> > children BTW.)
> 
> Unless she has had a hysterectomy anything is possible. Besides this was 
> a fictitious scenario featuring your mother for the simple reason she was 
> the only female I could pretty much guarantee in your life. 

Obviously, that's why I gave my answer anyhow.

> > > If you met the guy in a bar would you buy him a beer and "shoot some 
> > > pool". During the conversation you could drop in, "Look I like you as 
> > > a person but you ought to get help with your rape problem". 
> > 
> > All this from someone who said homosexuality couldn't be compared
> > to rape :P
> 
> I was not comparing homosexuality with rape though was I? I was 
> addressing a point specifically related to rape. You introduced the 
> original point on loving rapists. Although the general conversation is 
> about homosexuality, this was a slight tangent in response to a specific 
> comment by yourself that held no inference of homosexual discussion.
> 
> > If your brother/friend/son/whatever had a mental problem would you
> > want to help him get better?  Why or why not?
> 
> Be more specific. Mental Problem in your terminology is anything unlike 
> yourself. 

Really?  So I now think that women and blacks all have mental problems?
Thanks for letting me know, I was unaware that I had such views.

> If they were like you I would definitely want them cured since 
> they have definite faschist tendencies :P but maybe you want to clarify 
> what you are suggesting as a mental problem and we'll take it from there. 

Let's say they had voices in their head that "made" them randomly
beat the living daylights out of random people.

> > > > > > > The action makes the person what they are. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I don't think so.  A non-smoker is still the same person they are
> > > > > > when they start smoking.  And then still the same person after that
> > > > > > when they stop.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Disagree.
> > > > 
> > > > They are the same person doing different things.  
> > > > If a murderer was sentenced to prison, and then he stopped,
> > > > he is still the same man he was when he killed someone.
> > > > He is also the same guy he was before he killed someone.
> > > 
> > > Wrong.
> > 
> > And you call it childish of me when I say similar things not
> > marked with an IMHO :P
> > 
> > He's the same guy, he has all the same memories, the same
> > DNA, the same wardrobe, the same adress, so unless he has
> > one of those multiple or split personality disorders, I
> > don't see how you can say he's a different person.
> 
> He is different. Possessions do not make a person. Life does.

You seem to have ignored all the other things I mentioned (like
memories) so please re-read.

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