🚀 go-pugleaf

"ArtDent" <par@noyd.invalidname> wrote in
news:13jmfm7668o4d39@corp.supernews.com: 

> I am currently trying to build a clone killing pally.  I am in nm.  I
> have killed quite a few bosses - including Hephasto - that were Fire
> Enchanted, but my life ball only goes down about 10-20 percent.  Is
> this because I am maxed on my resistances, or, is this because I have
> items that give me 'damage reduced by x' as well as items that give me
> 'damage reduced by x%' (I also have 'magic damage reduced by x')?  Or
> have I just been 'lucky' so far and the next one could take me with
> him when he goes? 
> 

I don't know for sure, but in my observations I get away with it often 
enough to lose my respect for the bug and then it kills me--BLAMMO!

Sometimes you don't see the FE notice until you've already started to zeal, 
and then it's already too late; you just have to hope either that you don't 
kill him before you can put some distance between you or that this will be 
one of the lucky times.

Mark.

-- 
While I'll admit that anyone can make a mistake once, to go on making
the same lethal errors century after century seems to me nothing short
of deliberate.--V.

"Mark P. Nelson" <markpnelson@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message 
news:Xns99E88B89849A6mpndisorg@207.115.17.102...
> "ArtDent" <par@noyd.invalidname> wrote in
> news:13jmfm7668o4d39@corp.supernews.com:
>
>> I am currently trying to build a clone killing pally.  I am in nm.  I
>> have killed quite a few bosses - including Hephasto - that were Fire
>> Enchanted, but my life ball only goes down about 10-20 percent.  Is
>> this because I am maxed on my resistances, or, is this because I have
>> items that give me 'damage reduced by x' as well as items that give me
>> 'damage reduced by x%' (I also have 'magic damage reduced by x')?  Or
>> have I just been 'lucky' so far and the next one could take me with
>> him when he goes?
>>
>
> I don't know for sure, but in my observations I get away with it often
> enough to lose my respect for the bug and then it kills me--BLAMMO!
>
> Sometimes you don't see the FE notice until you've already started to 
> zeal,
> and then it's already too late; you just have to hope either that you 
> don't
> kill him before you can put some distance between you or that this will be
> one of the lucky times.
>
> Mark.
>
> -- 
> While I'll admit that anyone can make a mistake once, to go on making
> the same lethal errors century after century seems to me nothing short
> of deliberate.--V.

I suffered the consequences of the bug the other day. I had my pally at 
level 75.5 and was almost able to wear his dracs when SPLAT!.. I didn't know 
there was a boss with FE on him and i went splat. :(

-- 
Jake Mysterio - The Mysterious One of Nothingness. 

In article <Xns99E88B89849A6mpndisorg@207.115.17.102>,
Mark P. Nelson <markpnelson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>"ArtDent" <par@noyd.invalidname> wrote in
>news:13jmfm7668o4d39@corp.supernews.com: 
>
>> I am currently trying to build a clone killing pally.  I am in nm.  I
>> have killed quite a few bosses - including Hephasto - that were Fire
>> Enchanted, but my life ball only goes down about 10-20 percent.  Is
>> this because I am maxed on my resistances, or, is this because I have
>> items that give me 'damage reduced by x' as well as items that give me
>> 'damage reduced by x%' (I also have 'magic damage reduced by x')?  Or
>> have I just been 'lucky' so far and the next one could take me with
>> him when he goes? 
>> 
>
>I don't know for sure, but in my observations I get away with it often 
>enough to lose my respect for the bug and then it kills me--BLAMMO!
>
>Sometimes you don't see the FE notice until you've already started to zeal, 
>and then it's already too late; you just have to hope either that you don't 
>kill him before you can put some distance between you or that this will be 
>one of the lucky times.

Perhaps it's blockable?

This is just speculation, I don't know the intricate details... But I've 
noticed with my only melee char I made recently (also an UT Smiter, 1 
succesful run behind him this ladder), that it's not always 'BLAMMO' when 
killing an FE enchanted boss. ;)

Regards,

Patrick.

ArtDent wrote:
> I am currently trying to build a clone killing pally.  I am in nm.  I have
> killed quite a few bosses - including Hephasto - that were Fire Enchanted,
> but my life ball only goes down about 10-20 percent.  Is this because I am
> maxed on my resistances, or, is this because I have items that give me
> 'damage reduced by x' as well as items that give me 'damage reduced by x%'
> (I also have 'magic damage reduced by x')?  Or have I just been 'lucky' so
> far and the next one could take me with him when he goes?
> 
u havent encountered the bug, when u do its bye bye

On 14-Nov-2007, RJ <ss33ss33@yahoo.com> wrote:

> u havent encountered the bug, when u do its bye bye

Seriously?  There is nothing that can let you live through it?
Because I think I did get hit by it just a little bit ago.
My life ball went ALMOST empty.
>>From full to looking empty in the blink of an eye.
But, I did not die.
I sure came close, fingers are still a bit shaky, heh.
I have damage reduced by 27 total, and reduced by at least 10 percent too.
Magic damage reduced by ~22 I think.

-- 
As I sit here planning my world takeover...
The government is watching.
<waves> Hi government!

ArtDent wrote:
> On 14-Nov-2007, RJ <ss33ss33@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> u havent encountered the bug, when u do its bye bye
> 
> Seriously?  There is nothing that can let you live through it?
> Because I think I did get hit by it just a little bit ago.
> My life ball went ALMOST empty.
> From full to looking empty in the blink of an eye.
> But, I did not die.
> I sure came close, fingers are still a bit shaky, heh.
> I have damage reduced by 27 total, and reduced by at least 10 percent too.
> Magic damage reduced by ~22 I think.
> 

Sure it's not just the FE explosion getting a critical hit (if this can 
happen? Though ISTR that ALL monster attacks can critical, even ones 
that wouldn't be able to from a player)?

In any case, regarding the original post, FE explosions appear to be 
similar to the ones from Corpse Explosion, so part fire and part 
physical damage, so fire res and damage reduced by % items do help.

And the only FE "bugs" I know about don't really even concern FE alone, 
but rather FE in combination with other effects, specifically CE and LE 
(or scarab's lightning thing), which seem to apparently have the 
following results -

a) FE + LE/scarab = Invisible FE explosion each time you trigger the bolts

b) FE + CE = FE explosion and cold nova on death, but apparently these 
actually happen *twice* each

c) CE + LE/scarab = Invisible cold nova each time you trigger the bolts

d) FE + CE + LE/scarab = Invisible FE explosion AND cold nova (2 of 
each?? Not sure) each time you trigger the bolts AND double dose of FE 
and CE damage on death

Or is this a different bug?

ArtDent wrote:
> On 14-Nov-2007, RJ <ss33ss33@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> u havent encountered the bug, when u do its bye bye
> 
> Seriously?  There is nothing that can let you live through it?
> Because I think I did get hit by it just a little bit ago.
> My life ball went ALMOST empty.
> From full to looking empty in the blink of an eye.
> But, I did not die.
> I sure came close, fingers are still a bit shaky, heh.
> I have damage reduced by 27 total, and reduced by at least 10 percent too.
> Magic damage reduced by ~22 I think.
> 
It also depends who that FE bugger is. It's amazing you can live 
to tell the tale about killing a FE Fatso. I can't remember if 
FE is all fire or if there's a physical component in it. MDR 
surely helps, but I'm not sure about DRx/DRx%. Tommi Gustafsson 
used to have a couple of pages digging into game mechanics like 
this on www.hut.fi/~tgustafs/ but I can't find it anymore.

Anyway, I still remember a key factor of FE damage is the 
monster's life in Normal difficulty (I think this is what the 
bug is in NM -- they probably have used NM life.) So a FE Fallen 
unique in a solo game probably won't do too much to you and 
you'll survive nicely. If it's Lister (I think he's the 
non-act-boss with the most blood in Normal) then good luck.

Note also that FE is not just deadly in NM. In hell it's usually 
no biggie, but if the monster is spawned with other nasty mods, 
it's as deadly. I lost a hammerdin to a hell FE+CE+Conviction 
Fatso in a solo game. 95% res.all, 75% block, 2k life, nothing 
mattered. I whined in channel afterwards, and was met with 
scornful remark -- "only 2k life? my barb with 5k life has just 
died to the same bugger!"

When meleeing in HC, what I do when I see a pack coming is to 
step back, let the merc engage first (and if he doesn't, I'll do 
what he usually does: lure the monsters to him), and then I'll 
check mods of the boss before I decide if I'll join in for the 
fun or not.

Bing

"Amarande" <nospam@lunasanguine.com> wrote in message
news:NmO_i.5290$K01.266@newsfe05.lga...
> ArtDent wrote:
>> On 14-Nov-2007, RJ <ss33ss33@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> u havent encountered the bug, when u do its bye bye
>>
>> Seriously?  There is nothing that can let you live through it?
>> Because I think I did get hit by it just a little bit ago.
>> My life ball went ALMOST empty.
>> From full to looking empty in the blink of an eye.
>> But, I did not die.
>> I sure came close, fingers are still a bit shaky, heh.
>> I have damage reduced by 27 total, and reduced by at least 10 percent
>> too.
>> Magic damage reduced by ~22 I think.
>>
>
> Sure it's not just the FE explosion getting a critical hit (if this can
> happen? Though ISTR that ALL monster attacks can critical, even ones that
> wouldn't be able to from a player)?
>
> In any case, regarding the original post, FE explosions appear to be
> similar to the ones from Corpse Explosion, so part fire and part physical
> damage, so fire res and damage reduced by % items do help.
>
> And the only FE "bugs" I know about don't really even concern FE alone,
> but rather FE in combination with other effects, specifically CE and LE
> (or scarab's lightning thing), which seem to apparently have the following
> results -
>
> a) FE + LE/scarab = Invisible FE explosion each time you trigger the bolts
>
> b) FE + CE = FE explosion and cold nova on death, but apparently these
> actually happen *twice* each
>
> c) CE + LE/scarab = Invisible cold nova each time you trigger the bolts
>
> d) FE + CE + LE/scarab = Invisible FE explosion AND cold nova (2 of each??
> Not sure) each time you trigger the bolts AND double dose of FE and CE
> damage on death
>
> Or is this a different bug?

This occures in NM games.  Run the council in Act 3 NM a dozen times... you
will most likely run into it.  Do it softcore though....   = D

Jaffir

On 14-Nov-2007, Amarande <nospam@lunasanguine.com> wrote:

> ArtDent wrote:
> > On 14-Nov-2007, RJ <ss33ss33@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> u havent encountered the bug, when u do its bye bye
> >
> > Seriously?  There is nothing that can let you live through it?
> > Because I think I did get hit by it just a little bit ago.
> > My life ball went ALMOST empty.
> > From full to looking empty in the blink of an eye.
> > But, I did not die.
> > I sure came close, fingers are still a bit shaky, heh.
> > I have damage reduced by 27 total, and reduced by at least 10 percent
> > too.
> > Magic damage reduced by ~22 I think.
> >
>
> Sure it's not just the FE explosion getting a critical hit (if this can
> happen? Though ISTR that ALL monster attacks can critical, even ones
> that wouldn't be able to from a player)?

**********************************
* Important FE info follows **
**********************************

> In any case, regarding the original post, FE explosions appear to be
> similar to the ones from Corpse Explosion, so part fire and part
> physical damage, so fire res and damage reduced by % items do help.
>
> And the only FE "bugs" I know about don't really even concern FE alone,
> but rather FE in combination with other effects, specifically CE and LE
> (or scarab's lightning thing), which seem to apparently have the
> following results -
>
> a) FE + LE/scarab = Invisible FE explosion each time you trigger the
> bolts
>
> b) FE + CE = FE explosion and cold nova on death, but apparently these
> actually happen *twice* each
>
> c) CE + LE/scarab = Invisible cold nova each time you trigger the bolts
>
> d) FE + CE + LE/scarab = Invisible FE explosion AND cold nova (2 of
> each?? Not sure) each time you trigger the bolts AND double dose of FE
> and CE damage on death
>
> Or is this a different bug?

This is the bug.
I am pretty sure the FE + LE combo is what *almost* got me, I did see one
boss with those.  But it could have been the 'triple whammy' for all I
know for sure.  There were at least three bosses and their packs.  All
'big' boys in the River of Flame, heh.  Urdars, Blood Lords, and another
pack of Urdars.  I think it was one of the Urdar bosses.  I didn't even
have time to see all their mods before it happened, there were too many
big monster bodies all bunched up together.

Deja Vu all over again.
-- 
And on the 8th day God said: "Ok, Murphy, you take over."

Patrick Vervoorn wrote:
> In article <Xns99E88B89849A6mpndisorg@207.115.17.102>,
> Mark P. Nelson <markpnelson@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> "ArtDent" <par@noyd.invalidname> wrote in
>> news:13jmfm7668o4d39@corp.supernews.com:
>>
>>> I am currently trying to build a clone killing pally.  I am in nm.
>>> I have killed quite a few bosses - including Hephasto - that were
>>> Fire Enchanted, but my life ball only goes down about 10-20
>>> percent.  Is this because I am maxed on my resistances, or, is this
>>> because I have items that give me 'damage reduced by x' as well as
>>> items that give me 'damage reduced by x%' (I also have 'magic
>>> damage reduced by x')?  Or have I just been 'lucky' so far and the
>>> next one could take me with him when he goes?
>>>
>>
>> I don't know for sure, but in my observations I get away with it
>> often enough to lose my respect for the bug and then it kills
>> me--BLAMMO!
>>
>> Sometimes you don't see the FE notice until you've already started
>> to zeal, and then it's already too late; you just have to hope
>> either that you don't kill him before you can put some distance
>> between you or that this will be one of the lucky times.
>
> Perhaps it's blockable?
>
> This is just speculation, I don't know the intricate details... But
> I've noticed with my only melee char I made recently (also an UT
> Smiter, 1 succesful run behind him this ladder), that it's not always
> 'BLAMMO' when killing an FE enchanted boss. ;)

I tend to agree with you Patrick. I've just been playing with a friend, me 
with a pally, the friend with a frenzy barb. We took out the council and one 
was FE. The barb's (and my merc's) life ball went down to about 10% while 
mine hardly moved. All I could think was I was the only one with a shield.
-- 
TTFN,

Shaun. 

Jaffir wrote:

> 
> This occures in NM games.  Run the council in Act 3 NM a dozen times... you
> will most likely run into it.  Do it softcore though....   = D
> 

Ahh, I recall that one now.

That's more a balancing issue than a bug - IIRC what happened there was 
that the multiplier (basically % of max monster life) used to determine 
how much damage an FE explosion causes is not as well balanced on 
Nightmare as it is on Normal or Hell.

In fact, it used to be even worse on Hell, but it got rebalanced during 
the 1.10 beta ... NM wasn't balanced as well or at all though, possibly 
because it depends quite a lot on the max HP of the particular boss 
concerned. Indeed it is not so noticeable with bosses that don't have 
much HP, unless the other behavior (interaction between multiple *E 
mods, and *that*, I believe, is much more likely to really be a bug, 
though 1.11 did not to my knowledge fix it) is involved. Else you would 
constantly hear about people dying to the Countess's death, or to the 
Grand Vizier's or Colenzo's during Chaos or Baal runs, while this 
doesn't seem to normally be the case; it seems to almost always be 
high-HP enemies like Council, Urdars, Venom Lords, Act 5 minotaurs, and 
probably Lister when he gets that mod where people post of losing a 
hardcore character.

In fact the NM behavior may actually be more consistent with the 
original intent of the Fire Enchanted mod ... by comparison it actually 
seems somewhat wimpy on Hell after the rebalance, unless again the 
multiple-enchantment bug is involved. But it does seem to be the general 
opinion that it's a tad too powerful with high-HP bosses ...

"Bingain" <bingain@doYouYahoo.com> wrote:
> I can't remember if FE is all fire or if there's a physical component
> in it. MDR surely helps, but I'm not sure about DRx/DRx%. Tommi
> Gustafsson used to have a couple of pages digging into game mechanics
> like this on www.hut.fi/~tgustafs/ but I can't find it anymore.

The site appears to still be available here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20050212193038/http://www.hut.fi/~tgustafs/

RelMark