🚀 go-pugleaf

On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 1:32:00 AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
> Ran across this on YouTube:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuYPOC-gCGA
> a video showing how to dial a number on a rotary telephone.

The Bell System and the Independents prepared a number of
customer education films on how to dial.  Back in old days,
people used to manual operator service had to learn how
to use a telephone dial.

In the 1960s, long distance dialing came out.  A number of
older people were terrified of using it, even though it was
just three more digits.  It took time until they got used
to it (and Bell System discounts for dialing direct instead
of using the operator for a toll call.)

see Bell ad:
https://books.google.com/books?id=kVMEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA55&dq=life%20%22dial%20direct%22&pg=PA54#v=onepage&q&f=false
(Also note 1971 Chevy Monte Carlo--big as a boat!)

also
https://books.google.com/books?id=F0AEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA25&dq=life%20%22dial%20direct%22&pg=PA25#v=onepage&q&f=false

hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
> The Bell System and the Independents prepared a number of
> customer education films on how to dial.  Back in old days,
> people used to manual operator service had to learn how
> to use a telephone dial.

In _1954_ ? Are you serious? How backward was the US at that time?
Just wondering...

Christian

On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 2:20:02 AM UTC-6, Christian Corti wrote:

> In _1954_ ? Are you serious? How backward was the US at that time?
> Just wondering...

While it is true that automated telephone exchanges were introduced in the 1920s, 
I'm sure that they started in the major cities. That rural areas still used 
operator-assisted calling for local calls up until the 1950s in some cases does 
not strike me as too unbelievable.

John Savard

On Tue, 2018-03-27, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 2:20:02 AM UTC-6, Christian Corti wrote:
>
>> In _1954_ ? Are you serious? How backward was the US at that time?
>> Just wondering...
>
> While it is true that automated telephone exchanges were introduced in the 1920s, 
> I'm sure that they started in the major cities. That rural areas still used 
> operator-assisted calling for local calls up until the 1950s in some cases does 
> not strike me as too unbelievable.

Yes. Mom described to me how that worked in rural Sweden, around 1950:
who ran the village exchange, which hops my grandfather had to specify
to reach his siblings two parishes away, and so on.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .     .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .

On 27/03/2018 16:24, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> On Tue, 2018-03-27, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 2:20:02 AM UTC-6, Christian Corti wrote:
>>
>>> In _1954_ ? Are you serious? How backward was the US at that time?
>>> Just wondering...
>>
>> While it is true that automated telephone exchanges were introduced in the 1920s,
>> I'm sure that they started in the major cities. That rural areas still used
>> operator-assisted calling for local calls up until the 1950s in some cases does
>> not strike me as too unbelievable.
> 
> Yes. Mom described to me how that worked in rural Sweden, around 1950:
> who ran the village exchange, which hops my grandfather had to specify
> to reach his siblings two parishes away, and so on.
> 
> /Jorgen
> 

LLechryd, Ceredigion, in Darkest Wales, was a manual exchange well
into the 1960s; we had a great aunt whom we phoned.

On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 10:09:04 +0200, Christian Corti <u...@reply.to>
wrote:

>hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>> The Bell System and the Independents prepared a number of
>> customer education films on how to dial.  Back in old days,
>> people used to manual operator service had to learn how
>> to use a telephone dial.
>
>In _1954_ ? Are you serious? How backward was the US at that time?
>Just wondering...
>
>Christian

Yes, teaching my great grandmother how to use dial phones was
difficult. And yes, in the 1950s.

On 2018-03-27, Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

> On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 2:20:02 AM UTC-6, Christian Corti wrote:
>
>> In _1954_ ? Are you serious? How backward was the US at that time?
>> Just wondering...
>
> While it is true that automated telephone exchanges were introduced in the
> 1920s, I'm sure that they started in the major cities. That rural areas
> still used operator-assisted calling for local calls up until the 1950s
> in some cases does not strike me as too unbelievable.

The whole world isn't New York, however much it wants to think so.
I grew up just outside Vancouver and remember the transition from
operators to dial phones sometime prior to 1960 - at which time we
moved out to the sticks and went back to operators for a while.
I remember reading about the last cord board in B.C. (out in a
remote community) being retired sometime in the 1970s.

-- 
/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
 X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
/ \  HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored.  Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!

Christian Corti <u...@reply.to> writes:

> hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>
>> The Bell System and the Independents prepared a number of
>> customer education films on how to dial.  Back in old days,
>> people used to manual operator service had to learn how
>> to use a telephone dial.
> 
> In _1954_ ? Are you serious? How backward was the US at that time?
> Just wondering...

In 1953, I moved from rural New Hampshire to urban Massachusetts.  The
NH town (pop. ca 1000) had party lines, crank phones and a plug board
operator up near the high school.  The Mass. city had dial phones.  I
didn't need to see an educational film to learn how to use the phone,
though. 

-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

I was born in 1956; my grandmother's home was in a town with 150 people and an operator-run exchange until 1964. If you picked up the handset, you listened for a call in progress, and hung up if that was the case. If not, you rang the operator, who would come on and ask who you wanted to call.

My grandmother's telephone number was three longs and two shorts. When direct dialing became available, that became 812-366-3424.

On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 4:20:02 AM UTC-4, Christian Corti wrote:
> hancock4 wrote:
> > The Bell System and the Independents prepared a number of
> > customer education films on how to dial.  Back in old days,
> > people used to manual operator service had to learn how
> > to use a telephone dial.
> 
> In _1954_ ? Are you serious? How backward was the US at that time?
> Just wondering...

Roughly 30% of the telephones were still in manual service at that
time.

Installing dial service was an expensive and major undertaking.
It not only involved design and hookup of dial switchgear in the
town, but often required a new building to house it, as well
as changed interconnections of nearby exchanges.   All the 
subscribers had to get new sets and taught how to use them.
Sometimes subscribers got new phone numbers, which had to be
distributed and new phone books printed.

Note that in addition to films, Bell sent out representatives
to people's homes to explain how to dial.

On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 4:52:45 AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:

> > In _1954_ ? Are you serious? How backward was the US at that time?
> > Just wondering...
> 
> While it is true that automated telephone exchanges were introduced in the 1920s, 
> I'm sure that they started in the major cities. That rural areas still used 
> operator-assisted calling for local calls up until the 1950s in some cases does 
> not strike me as too unbelievable.

While the Bell System first automated a New York City exchange
in 1922, some rural areas were converted earlier, especially by
the Independent companies.  A very tiny village needed only a
part-time operator, and it was not cost-effective to pay
someone to sit 24/7 at a switchboard to handle occasional
calls.  (Indeed, in some places, the switchboard was in
the operator's house, and she or her daughters would answer
calls while doing other house chores.)

The last Bell Telephone manual exchange, on Santa Catalina Island,
was converted in the early 1980s.  I think some Independent
exchanges held on a little longer.

The following from the NYT should be viewable by anyone:
https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1922/03/12/98782373.pdf

https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1922/10/08/107071271.pdf

The capital cost of dial switchgear was very expensive; manual
switchboards were far cheaper.  Further, operators could be
economically added or subtracted per the demands of service, e.g.
only one operator during overnight hours.  Dial switchgear had to
be built to handle peak loads.

Also, maintenance staff needed more training to repair dial switchgear.

Lastly, especially in the early days, dial subscribers could only
call within their own town; anything beyond that still required an
operator.

Also, unlike today, Bell believed strongly in full human backup
in case there was an automation malfunction.

On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 1:46:00 PM UTC-4, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> The whole world isn't New York, however much it wants to think so.
> I grew up just outside Vancouver and remember the transition from
> operators to dial phones sometime prior to 1960 - at which time we
> moved out to the sticks and went back to operators for a while.
> I remember reading about the last cord board in B.C. (out in a
> remote community) being retired sometime in the 1970s.

In Canada, in the 1970s there were some manual exchanges that
still required the hand-crank "local battery" telephones.

On 2018-03-27, Christian Corti <u...@reply.to> wrote:
> In _1954_ ? Are you serious? How backward was the US at that time?
> Just wondering...

Rural areas can take a while to catch up. In early 1980s New Hampshire
I had to have a party line for a while.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

  NSA sedition and treason        -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 4:20:02 AM UTC-4, Christian Corti wrote:
> In _1954_ ? Are you serious? How backward was the US at that time?
> Just wondering...

The telephone companies (Bell and Independent) had something 
called a "Community Automatic Exchanged", an unattended facility
designed for small towns.

Descriptions:
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/bruce-crawford-library/automatic-electric/bulletins/428-ae-bulletin-819-community-automatic-exchanges

http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/catalogs-manuals-educational-docs-by-company/other-manufacturers/11630-federal-telephone-radio-catalog-ocr

In article <36b94692-59f5-4fb5...@googlegroups.com>,
Daiyu Hurst  <daiyu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I was born in 1956; my grandmother's home was in a town with 150 people
>and an operator-run exchange until 1964. If you picked up the handset,
>you listened for a call in progress, and hung up if that was the case.
>If not, you rang the operator, who would come on and ask who you wanted
>to call.
>
>My grandmother's telephone number was three longs and two shorts. When
>direct dialing became available, that became 812-366-3424.

My grandfather had the first radio in Fernandina Beach Florida.  When
nobody was using the phone, he would wire the radio headset into it so
the operator could listen to the radio.  Or that's the family story.
Nobody with first-hand knowledge is still with us unfortunately.
-- 
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

In article <4158a121-b091-4ccd...@googlegroups.com>,
 <hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 4:20:02 AM UTC-4, Christian Corti wrote:
>> hancock4 wrote:
>> > The Bell System and the Independents prepared a number of
>> > customer education films on how to dial.  Back in old days,
>> > people used to manual operator service had to learn how
>> > to use a telephone dial.
>> 
>> In _1954_ ? Are you serious? How backward was the US at that time?
>> Just wondering...
>
>Roughly 30% of the telephones were still in manual service at that
>time.
>
>Installing dial service was an expensive and major undertaking.
>It not only involved design and hookup of dial switchgear in the
>town, but often required a new building to house it, as well
>as changed interconnections of nearby exchanges.   All the 
>subscribers had to get new sets and taught how to use them.
>Sometimes subscribers got new phone numbers, which had to be
>distributed and new phone books printed.
>
>Note that in addition to films, Bell sent out representatives
>to people's homes to explain how to dial.
>

I was wondering about that.  Where would this film be seen?  Would the
Bell System buy time in the trailers at local theaters?
-- 
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On 3/27/2018 3:04 PM, Roger Blake wrote:
> On 2018-03-27, Christian Corti <u...@reply.to> wrote:
>> In _1954_ ? Are you serious? How backward was the US at that time?
>> Just wondering...
> 
> Rural areas can take a while to catch up. In early 1980s New Hampshire
> I had to have a party line for a while.
> 

In the United States, phones in the 1980's ram the gamut from touch-tone 
"full featured" phones to phones that had no way to dial.  You pick up 
the receiver and the operator said "number please"!

-- 
numerist at aquaporin4 dot com

On 2018-03-28, Charles Richmond <nume...@aquaporin4.com> wrote:

> On 3/27/2018 3:04 PM, Roger Blake wrote:
>
>> On 2018-03-27, Christian Corti <u...@reply.to> wrote:
>>
>>> In _1954_ ? Are you serious? How backward was the US at that time?
>>> Just wondering...
>> 
>> Rural areas can take a while to catch up. In early 1980s New Hampshire
>> I had to have a party line for a while.
>
> In the United States, phones in the 1980's ram the gamut from touch-tone 
> "full featured" phones to phones that had no way to dial.  You pick up 
> the receiver and the operator said "number please"!

PA: Captain Oveur, white courtesy phone.  Captain Clarence Oveur,
    white courtesy phone.

[Oveur picks up the red phone.]

PA: No, the white phone.

PA: Captain Oveur, white courtesy phone.  Captain Clarence Oveur,
    white courtesy phone.

Oveur: I GOT IT!

-- 
/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
 X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
/ \  HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored.  Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!

On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 5:28:46 PM UTC-4, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:

> >> > The Bell System and the Independents prepared a number of
> >> > customer education films on how to dial.  Back in old days,
> >> > people used to manual operator service had to learn how
> >> > to use a telephone dial.


> I was wondering about that.  Where would this film be seen?  Would the
> Bell System buy time in the trailers at local theaters?

Years ago, it was common for larger companies and government agencies*
to produce films to showcase to the public and new employees their 
mission and accomplishments, as well as making training films for
internal use for their employees.  Many of these films are now
viewable on YouTube (some are available for purchase).  Personally,
I find them fascinating.  The AT&T Archive has a collection of both
internal training and external p/r films going way back.  We've talked
here about some of their computer usage films.  AT&T/Bell Telephone
made a great many films.  The Independent companies made a few, but
they're pretty interesting too (such as showing a small town 
telephone company upgrading their switch.)

Often these films were professionally done and in color (at a time
when most films were b&w).

I once got to see an internal IBM film on their factory work of the
late 1930s.  It showed the many steps in the machine shops.  It was
rather dry, but still interesting to see the work.  Some old IBM
films are viewable on the history section of their website.

Burroughs has an interesting old film, available on YouTube, about
their manufacturing.  Worth a look.

I don't know about Remington Rand/Univac, but probably they made
films, too.  Don't know about the computer divisions of RCA, GE,
Honeywell, CDC, NCR, etc.

Anyway, one of the tasks of the p/r department was to have a
Speakers Bureau.  These folks, generally personable and well
trained, went around to schools and clubs--anywhere when invited--
and brought along the training or p/r film from the company.


* During WW II, the US Signal Corps prepared both p/r and training
films for the Army.  Initially, it was done inhouse, but the results
were crappy.  Then they turned to Hollywood, which made high quality
training and p/r films for them at cost.  These include the Frank
Capra series, "Why We Fight".

>From time to time, TCM shows various government "motivational" films
made during the war to encourage citizens to be selfless and take
work in a defense plant, conserve critical materials, recycle,
and otherwise contribute to the war effort.  Feature films made
in Hollywood at that time also included a lot of wartime 
propaganda embedded in the story.  In return for Hollywood's
many contributions, the government went after them in the 1950s
accusing Hollywood of being all communists.

On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 11:37:15 AM UTC-4, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> PA: Captain Oveur, white courtesy phone.  Captain Clarence Oveur,
>     white courtesy phone.
> [Oveur picks up the red phone.]
> PA: No, the white phone.
> PA: Captain Oveur, white courtesy phone.  Captain Clarence Oveur,
>     white courtesy phone.
> Oveur: I GOT IT!

That was a damn funny movie!  Amazing how much dialogue was adopted
from the original film, Zero Hour, and how a seriously earnest 
phrase became comical in the remake.

On 3/28/2018 10:36 AM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2018-03-28, Charles Richmond <nume...@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 3/27/2018 3:04 PM, Roger Blake wrote:
>>
>>> On 2018-03-27, Christian Corti <u...@reply.to> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In _1954_ ? Are you serious? How backward was the US at that time?
>>>> Just wondering...
>>>
>>> Rural areas can take a while to catch up. In early 1980s New Hampshire
>>> I had to have a party line for a while.
>>
>> In the United States, phones in the 1980's ram the gamut from touch-tone
>> "full featured" phones to phones that had no way to dial.  You pick up
>> the receiver and the operator said "number please"!
> 
> PA: Captain Oveur, white courtesy phone.  Captain Clarence Oveur,
>      white courtesy phone.
> 
> [Oveur picks up the red phone.]
> 
> PA: No, the white phone.
> 
> PA: Captain Oveur, white courtesy phone.  Captain Clarence Oveur,
>      white courtesy phone.
> 
> Oveur: I GOT IT!
> 

PA:  "Dr. Howard... Dr. Fine...  Dr. Howard...
       Dr. Howard... Dr. Fine...  Dr. Howard..."

-- 
numerist at aquaporin4 dot com

Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> writes:

> On 2018-03-27, Christian Corti <u...@reply.to> wrote:
>
>> In _1954_ ? Are you serious? How backward was the US at that time?
>> Just wondering...
> 
> Rural areas can take a while to catch up. In early 1980s New Hampshire
> I had to have a party line for a while.

Same in rural Nova Scotia.  Party line in my little hamlet of 4 houses
until mid-80s.  I got my first computer, an already obsolete Osborne 1,
in '87 and was happy that we'd very recently been upgraded to a
private line so I could visit a BBS and, a  couple of years later,
dialup to an academic Unix host.

-- 
Mike Spencer                  Nova Scotia, Canada

On Friday, March 30, 2018 at 3:35:33 PM UTC-4, Mike Spencer wrote:

> Same in rural Nova Scotia.  Party line in my little hamlet of 4 houses
> until mid-80s.  I got my first computer, an already obsolete Osborne 1,
> in '87 and was happy that we'd very recently been upgraded to a
> private line so I could visit a BBS and, a  couple of years later,
> dialup to an academic Unix host.

At the time of Bell Divestiture, some rural areas actually had more
modern services than built-up areas.  Apparently, the independent
companies that served rural areas were free to do whatever they
wanted, so they quickly got into cable TV and other services that
originally Bell was not allowed to do.  Also, the old step-by-step
switchgear was generally old, worn out, and expensive to maintain.
Electronic switchgear took up a lot less footprint, which was a
significant cost saving, especially if the area was growing--it
saved the company from building a new building.

At the time of Divestiture, Bell still had quite a few electro-
mechanical offices in service and took the rest of the decade to
get them converted over to ESS.  Then Bell had to convert the
first generation analog ESS to newer digital ESS.  Note that
it was only ten years earlier, in 1973, that step-by-step was
at its peak deployment.  A lot of stepper and crossbar gear
was retired that still had plenty of useful life left in it.

On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 1:52:45 AM UTC-7, Quadibloc wrote:
> While it is true that automated telephone exchanges were introduced in the 1920s, 
> I'm sure that they started in the major cities. That rural areas still used 
> operator-assisted calling for local calls up until the 1950s in some cases does 
> not strike me as too unbelievable.

When I was in high school ca. 1980, I saw a note in the local paper that
Nine Mile Canyon was finally being converted to rotary dial. This was in
rural Utah.
-- 
roger ivie
roger...@gmail.com

On Sun, 1 Apr 2018 10:30:48 -0700 (PDT)
roger...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 1:52:45 AM UTC-7, Quadibloc wrote:
> > While it is true that automated telephone exchanges were introduced in
> > the 1920s, I'm sure that they started in the major cities. That rural
> > areas still used operator-assisted calling for local calls up until the
> > 1950s in some cases does not strike me as too unbelievable.
> 
> When I was in high school ca. 1980, I saw a note in the local paper that
> Nine Mile Canyon was finally being converted to rotary dial. This was in
> rural Utah.

	Wow I'm surprised they didn't skip pulse and go straight to tone
only.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

On 2018-04-02, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> wrote:

> On Sun, 1 Apr 2018 10:30:48 -0700 (PDT)
> roger...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 1:52:45 AM UTC-7, Quadibloc wrote:
>>
>>> While it is true that automated telephone exchanges were introduced in
>>> the 1920s, I'm sure that they started in the major cities. That rural
>>> areas still used operator-assisted calling for local calls up until the
>>> 1950s in some cases does not strike me as too unbelievable.
>> 
>> When I was in high school ca. 1980, I saw a note in the local paper that
>> Nine Mile Canyon was finally being converted to rotary dial. This was in
>> rural Utah.
>
> 	Wow I'm surprised they didn't skip pulse and go straight to tone
> only.

I think a lot of small exchanges updated to equipment being replaced in
larger ones to save the expense of purchasing new gear.

-- 
/~\  cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ /  I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
 X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
/ \  HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored.  Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!

On 2 Apr 2018 16:36:26 GMT
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:

> On 2018-04-02, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, 1 Apr 2018 10:30:48 -0700 (PDT)
> > roger...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >> On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 1:52:45 AM UTC-7, Quadibloc wrote:
> >>
> >>> While it is true that automated telephone exchanges were introduced in
> >>> the 1920s, I'm sure that they started in the major cities. That rural
> >>> areas still used operator-assisted calling for local calls up until
> >>> the 1950s in some cases does not strike me as too unbelievable.
> >> 
> >> When I was in high school ca. 1980, I saw a note in the local paper
> >> that Nine Mile Canyon was finally being converted to rotary dial. This
> >> was in rural Utah.
> >
> > 	Wow I'm surprised they didn't skip pulse and go straight to tone
> > only.
> 
> I think a lot of small exchanges updated to equipment being replaced in
> larger ones to save the expense of purchasing new gear.

	Hmm, late 1960s my sister was working as an operator at the main
exchange in Cambridge - it was a large building housing the switches and
the operators. While she was there the replacement exchange (one of the
first fully electronic exchanges) was delivered and installed in a small
storage room they cleared out for the purpose. It took a while for it to
start production use, but when it did they cleared out the old gear and
rented a lot of space as offices.

	I wouldn't expect it to be worthwhile moving an electromechanical
exchange at all, even to somewhere still on operator control.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

On Monday, April 2, 2018 at 1:30:04 PM UTC-4, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> > I think a lot of small exchanges updated to equipment being replaced in
> > larger ones to save the expense of purchasing new gear.
> 
> 	Hmm, late 1960s my sister was working as an operator at the main
> exchange in Cambridge - it was a large building housing the switches and
> the operators. While she was there the replacement exchange (one of the
> first fully electronic exchanges) was delivered and installed in a small
> storage room they cleared out for the purpose. It took a while for it to
> start production use, but when it did they cleared out the old gear and
> rented a lot of space as offices.
> 
> 	I wouldn't expect it to be worthwhile moving an electromechanical
> exchange at all, even to somewhere still on operator control.

Switchgear was engineered and built for a long service life.  Before
the 1980s, it was not unusual for removed switchgear to be transferred
to another exchange where it was needed.  This was commonly done for
step-by-step offices--if an office was upgraded, the equipment would
be moved to an office experiencing growth and needing more capacity.
Of course, this all depended on the age and condition of the equipment
being removed.

Electronic equipment had the advantage of needing a much smaller
footprint, and, required less maintenance.

In article <20180402093220.33ce...@eircom.net>,
Ahem A Rivet's Shot  <ste...@eircom.net> wrote:
>> When I was in high school ca. 1980, I saw a note in the local paper that
>> Nine Mile Canyon was finally being converted to rotary dial. This was in
>> rural Utah.
>
>	Wow I'm surprised they didn't skip pulse and go straight to tone only.

I expect it handled both rotary and pulse and the paper got it
slightly wrong.

I believe it's still pretty rare to have a switch on the PSTN that
can't handle pulse dialed numbers.  There's a lot of old burglar alarm
and other equipment that does pulse dialing and is not upgraded very
often.  On modern switches I wouldn't think the incremental cost of a
few pulse digit receivers would be significant.

-- 
Regards,
John Levine, jo...@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

In article <p9ulbg$1s3l$1...@gal.iecc.com>, John Levine  <jo...@taugh.com> wrote:
>In article <20180402093220.33ce...@eircom.net>,
>Ahem A Rivet's Shot  <ste...@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> When I was in high school ca. 1980, I saw a note in the local paper that
>>> Nine Mile Canyon was finally being converted to rotary dial. This was in
>>> rural Utah.
>>
>>	Wow I'm surprised they didn't skip pulse and go straight to tone only.
>
>I expect it handled both rotary and pulse and the paper got it
>slightly wrong.
>
>I believe it's still pretty rare to have a switch on the PSTN that
>can't handle pulse dialed numbers.  There's a lot of old burglar alarm
>and other equipment that does pulse dialing and is not upgraded very
>often.  On modern switches I wouldn't think the incremental cost of a
>few pulse digit receivers would be significant.
>

Regardless of what the telco switches can do, the ongoing conversion
to systems like Uverse inside houses will put paid to those old alarms
etc I think.  At any rate, my rotary kitchen phone stopped working after
my mandatory Uverse install (though they assured me it would be ok..)
-- 
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On Mon, 2018-04-02, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2018-04-02, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <ste...@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 1 Apr 2018 10:30:48 -0700 (PDT)
>> roger...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 1:52:45 AM UTC-7, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>
>>>> While it is true that automated telephone exchanges were introduced in
>>>> the 1920s, I'm sure that they started in the major cities. That rural
>>>> areas still used operator-assisted calling for local calls up until the
>>>> 1950s in some cases does not strike me as too unbelievable.
>>> 
>>> When I was in high school ca. 1980, I saw a note in the local paper that
>>> Nine Mile Canyon was finally being converted to rotary dial. This was in
>>> rural Utah.
>>
>> 	Wow I'm surprised they didn't skip pulse and go straight to tone
>> only.
>
> I think a lot of small exchanges updated to equipment being replaced in
> larger ones to save the expense of purchasing new gear.

Incidentally, the same explanation I got for why I don't get IPv6 at home:
old equipment being reused and pushed closer to the customer.

(That, and what more and more seems like indifference from my
government and the people owning the infrastructure.)

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .     .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .

On Monday, April 2, 2018 at 9:28:17 PM UTC-4, John Levine wrote:

> >> When I was in high school ca. 1980, I saw a note in the local paper that
> >> Nine Mile Canyon was finally being converted to rotary dial. This was in
> >> rural Utah.
> >
> >	Wow I'm surprised they didn't skip pulse and go straight to tone only.

> I expect it handled both rotary and pulse and the paper got it
> slightly wrong.

Agreed.

 
> I believe it's still pretty rare to have a switch on the PSTN that
> can't handle pulse dialed numbers.  There's a lot of old burglar alarm
> and other equipment that does pulse dialing and is not upgraded very
> often.  On modern switches I wouldn't think the incremental cost of a
> few pulse digit receivers would be significant.

It seems that the traditional landline service will support
rotary-pulse dialing.  However, the telephone companies want
out of that business.

I don't know if FIOS or VOIP services support rotary.  I've heard
conflicting reports (FIOS=maybe, VOIP, no.)

In the workplace, a traditional Verizon-provided Centrex line
still supports rotary-pulse service.  However, various digital
services do not (at least not in my office.)  It appears 
companies want to abandon traditional Verizon provided Centrex,
though it still has some advantages--like working in a power
failure while the digital does not.

Traditional landline service keeps working during a power failure.
It appears that FIOS will continue only for a few hours, and VOIP
not at all, depending on whether the user has sufficient backup
battery power hooked into their lines.

It is sad the quality of our telephone service is going backwards.

On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 13:10:10 -0700 (PDT)
hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:

> I don't know if FIOS or VOIP services support rotary.  I've heard
> conflicting reports (FIOS=maybe, VOIP, no.)

	For VOIP it depends entirely on your ATA (phone/VOIP interface
box), there are probably some that support pulse.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 01:28:16 -0000 (UTC), John Levine wrote:
>
> I believe it's still pretty rare to have a switch on the PSTN that
> can't handle pulse dialed numbers.  There's a lot of old burglar alarm
> and other equipment that does pulse dialing and is not upgraded very
> often.  On modern switches I wouldn't think the incremental cost of a
> few pulse digit receivers would be significant.

I wonder how switches in different countries would react today if you set
(if you can) your phone to use pulse dial.
-- 
Andreas

My random toughts and comments
https://news-commentaries.blogspot.com/

On Tue, 03 Apr 2018 17:23:50 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:

> On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 01:28:16 -0000 (UTC), John Levine wrote:
>>
>> I believe it's still pretty rare to have a switch on the PSTN that
>> can't handle pulse dialed numbers.  There's a lot of old burglar alarm
>> and other equipment that does pulse dialing and is not upgraded very
>> often.  On modern switches I wouldn't think the incremental cost of a
>> few pulse digit receivers would be significant.
> 
> I wonder how switches in different countries would react today if you
> set (if you can) your phone to use pulse dial.

Works fine in the UK.

-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

On 2018-04-04, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

> On 2018-04-03, hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com <hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>
> [37 lines snipped]
>
>> It is sad the quality of our telephone service is going backwards.
>
> Gresham's Law applies here as in all things.

The Wiki article makes for some interesting reading.

And it's nothing new:

    The course our city runs is the same towards men and money.
    She has true and worthy sons.
    She has fine new gold and ancient silver.
    Coins untouched with alloys, gold or silver.
    Each well minted, tested each and ringing clear.
    Yet we never use them!
    Others pass from hand to hand,
    Sorry brass just struck last week and branded with a wretched brand.
    So with men we know for upright, blameless lives and noble names.
    These we spurn for men of brass...
      -- Aristophanes: The Frogs (405 BC)

-- 
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 X   Top-posted messages will probably be ignored.  See RFC1855.
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On Tue, 2018-04-03, Bob Eager wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Apr 2018 17:23:50 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 01:28:16 -0000 (UTC), John Levine wrote:
>>>
>>> I believe it's still pretty rare to have a switch on the PSTN that
>>> can't handle pulse dialed numbers.  There's a lot of old burglar alarm
>>> and other equipment that does pulse dialing and is not upgraded very
>>> often.  On modern switches I wouldn't think the incremental cost of a
>>> few pulse digit receivers would be significant.
>> 
>> I wonder how switches in different countries would react today if you
>> set (if you can) your phone to use pulse dial.
>
> Works fine in the UK.

Worked in Sweden a few years ago, probably still does (except where
they're shutting down the non-mobile (immobile?) network).

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .     .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .

Andreas Kohlbach <a...@spamfence.net> writes:
>On Tue, 3 Apr 2018 01:28:16 -0000 (UTC), John Levine wrote:
>>
>> I believe it's still pretty rare to have a switch on the PSTN that
>> can't handle pulse dialed numbers.  There's a lot of old burglar alarm
>> and other equipment that does pulse dialing and is not upgraded very
>> often.  On modern switches I wouldn't think the incremental cost of a
>> few pulse digit receivers would be significant.
>
>I wonder how switches in different countries would react today if you set
>(if you can) your phone to use pulse dial.

I still have a pair of WE model 500 desksets (rotary dial) and they work
just fine for calling.   That's in California.

On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 1:32:00 AM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuYPOC-gCGA
> a video showing how to dial a number on a rotary telephone.


1950s Bell ads about dial service from LIFE magazine:

https://books.google.com/books?id=5UoEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA6&dq=life%20western%20electric%20dial&pg=PA6#v=onepage&q&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=dVEEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA5&dq=life%20western%20electric%20dial&pg=PA5#v=onepage&q&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=40EEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA132&dq=life%20bell%20dial&pg=PA132#v=onepage&q&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=VVIEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA9&dq=life%20bell%20dial&pg=PA9#v=onepage&q&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=70cEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA87&dq=life%20bell%20dial&pg=PA87#v=onepage&q&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=WEkEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA3&dq=life%20bell%20dial&pg=PA3#v=onepage&q=life%20bell%20dial&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=W0IEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA41&dq=life%20western%20electric%20dial&pg=PA41#v=onepage&q=life%20western%20electric%20dial&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=WUkEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA20&dq=life%20bell%20dial&pg=PA20#v=onepage&q=life%20bell%20dial&f=false