🚀 go-pugleaf

Peter Huebner  <no.one@this.address> wrote:
>I cannot understand why or how that should be so. We're talking about a 
>TBS game here ... 

It's actually much easier for simpler graphics to fully exploit all the
power of your video card.  More complex rendering likely to have more
parts of the GPU either unused or waiting.  There was a game, I think it
was Starcraft 2, that had a main menu that was infamous for overheating
video cards until they put a frame limiter on it.

					Ross Ridge

-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //	  

On 10/03/2013 4:21 AM, Ross Ridge wrote:
> Peter Huebner  <no.one@this.address> wrote:
>> I cannot understand why or how that should be so. We're talking about a
>> TBS game here ...
>
> It's actually much easier for simpler graphics to fully exploit all the
> power of your video card.  More complex rendering likely to have more
> parts of the GPU either unused or waiting.  There was a game, I think it
> was Starcraft 2, that had a main menu that was infamous for overheating
> video cards until they put a frame limiter on it.

Hmm. A slight flaw in the usual strategy of trying to pump out as many 
FPS as you can manage?

On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 11:14:06 -0400, David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca>
wrote:

>On 10/03/2013 4:21 AM, Ross Ridge wrote:
>> Peter Huebner  <no.one@this.address> wrote:
>>> I cannot understand why or how that should be so. We're talking about a
>>> TBS game here ...
>>
>> It's actually much easier for simpler graphics to fully exploit all the
>> power of your video card.  More complex rendering likely to have more
>> parts of the GPU either unused or waiting.  There was a game, I think it
>> was Starcraft 2, that had a main menu that was infamous for overheating
>> video cards until they put a frame limiter on it.
>
>Hmm. A slight flaw in the usual strategy of trying to pump out as many 
>FPS as you can manage?

Actually in that case, I think those cards that got fried were running
a beta driver that had a bug that prevented the fans from coming on.

So the real lesson there is probably to avoid beta software, and also
that it's foolish to not monitor framerates and component
temperatures.

In article <3ucpj8pqjafsl53fi83fakstmgf2s58pie@4ax.com>, 
rstowleigh@gmail.com says...
> 
> On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 11:14:06 -0400, David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca>
> wrote:
> 
> >On 10/03/2013 4:21 AM, Ross Ridge wrote:
> >> Peter Huebner  <no.one@this.address> wrote:
> >>> I cannot understand why or how that should be so. We're talking about a
> >>> TBS game here ...
> >>
> >> It's actually much easier for simpler graphics to fully exploit all the
> >> power of your video card.  More complex rendering likely to have more
> >> parts of the GPU either unused or waiting.  There was a game, I think it
> >> was Starcraft 2, that had a main menu that was infamous for overheating
> >> video cards until they put a frame limiter on it.
> >
> >Hmm. A slight flaw in the usual strategy of trying to pump out as many 
> >FPS as you can manage?
> 
> Actually in that case, I think those cards that got fried were running
> a beta driver that had a bug that prevented the fans from coming on.
> 
> So the real lesson there is probably to avoid beta software, and also
> that it's foolish to not monitor framerates and component
> temperatures.

Anyway, I had Asus' monitoring program running today. After 30 minutes 
of running Civ 5 the gpu temperature had gone from a happy 43 degrees 
Celsius to 70+ .... it took only less than 2 minutes to drop to 42 after 
I shut Civ 5 down.

Slightly worrying. 

-P.

On Mon, 11 Mar 2013 10:24:13 +1300, Peter Huebner
<no.one@this.address> wrote:

>In article <3ucpj8pqjafsl53fi83fakstmgf2s58pie@4ax.com>, 
>rstowleigh@gmail.com says...
>> 
>> On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 11:14:06 -0400, David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >On 10/03/2013 4:21 AM, Ross Ridge wrote:
>> >> Peter Huebner  <no.one@this.address> wrote:
>> >>> I cannot understand why or how that should be so. We're talking about a
>> >>> TBS game here ...
>> >>
>> >> It's actually much easier for simpler graphics to fully exploit all the
>> >> power of your video card.  More complex rendering likely to have more
>> >> parts of the GPU either unused or waiting.  There was a game, I think it
>> >> was Starcraft 2, that had a main menu that was infamous for overheating
>> >> video cards until they put a frame limiter on it.
>> >
>> >Hmm. A slight flaw in the usual strategy of trying to pump out as many 
>> >FPS as you can manage?
>> 
>> Actually in that case, I think those cards that got fried were running
>> a beta driver that had a bug that prevented the fans from coming on.
>> 
>> So the real lesson there is probably to avoid beta software, and also
>> that it's foolish to not monitor framerates and component
>> temperatures.
>
>Anyway, I had Asus' monitoring program running today. After 30 minutes 
>of running Civ 5 the gpu temperature had gone from a happy 43 degrees 
>Celsius to 70+ .... it took only less than 2 minutes to drop to 42 after 
>I shut Civ 5 down.
>
>Slightly worrying. 

70C is nothing to worry about.  In fact during gaming that's running
cool by some folks standards.

Ross Ridge wrote:
> It's actually much easier for simpler graphics to fully exploit all the
> power of your video card.  More complex rendering likely to have more
> parts of the GPU either unused or waiting.  There was a game, I think it
> was Starcraft 2, that had a main menu that was infamous for overheating
> video cards until they put a frame limiter on it.

David Lamb  <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> wrote:
>Hmm. A slight flaw in the usual strategy of trying to pump out as many 
>FPS as you can manage?

At least for a main menu or something like that, since 1000 fps is
unnecessary.  For Civilization 5 gameplay, you might appreciate its
ability to exploit your video card's full processing power especially
on lower end cards and/or when zoomed out on large maps.

					Ross Ridge

-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //	  

Peter Huebner  <no.one@this.address> wrote:
>Anyway, I had Asus' monitoring program running today. After 30 minutes 
>of running Civ 5 the gpu temperature had gone from a happy 43 degrees 
>Celsius to 70+ .... it took only less than 2 minutes to drop to 42 after 
>I shut Civ 5 down.

As Rin said that's a normal temperature for a video card when playing
a game.   Depending on your video card I'd only worry if it goes above
80-85 degrees though there are high-end cards were that's normal.

In a properly designed and cooled system there should be nothing a game
can do to damage your video card.  Video cards are designed to run full
out at high temperatures.  If there's adequate ventalation in the case,
and it doesn't take much, then the fans on the video card will be able
to keep it from overheating.  (Modern cards will also try to protect
themselves from overheating by throttling down and if that fails shutting
down, so you should get some warning before any permanent damage happens.)

						Ross Ridge

-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //	  

On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 17:28:14 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg, Rin
Stowleigh wrote: 

>On Mon, 11 Mar 2013 10:24:13 +1300, Peter Huebner
><no.one@this.address> wrote:
>
>>In article <3ucpj8pqjafsl53fi83fakstmgf2s58pie@4ax.com>, 
>>rstowleigh@gmail.com says...
>>> 
>>> On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 11:14:06 -0400, David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> >On 10/03/2013 4:21 AM, Ross Ridge wrote:
>>> >> Peter Huebner  <no.one@this.address> wrote:
>>> >>> I cannot understand why or how that should be so. We're talking about a
>>> >>> TBS game here ...
>>> >>
>>> >> It's actually much easier for simpler graphics to fully exploit all the
>>> >> power of your video card.  More complex rendering likely to have more
>>> >> parts of the GPU either unused or waiting.  There was a game, I think it
>>> >> was Starcraft 2, that had a main menu that was infamous for overheating
>>> >> video cards until they put a frame limiter on it.
>>> >
>>> >Hmm. A slight flaw in the usual strategy of trying to pump out as many 
>>> >FPS as you can manage?
>>> 
>>> Actually in that case, I think those cards that got fried were running
>>> a beta driver that had a bug that prevented the fans from coming on.
>>> 
>>> So the real lesson there is probably to avoid beta software, and also
>>> that it's foolish to not monitor framerates and component
>>> temperatures.
>>
>>Anyway, I had Asus' monitoring program running today. After 30 minutes 
>>of running Civ 5 the gpu temperature had gone from a happy 43 degrees 
>>Celsius to 70+ .... it took only less than 2 minutes to drop to 42 after 
>>I shut Civ 5 down.
>>
>>Slightly worrying. 
>
>70C is nothing to worry about.  In fact during gaming that's running
>cool by some folks standards.

My card hits 80C when I run OCCT. It's a 670.

It hits 70C in a flash. I wouldn't worry at all about it.

Most of the games are running some form of DX9, perhaps with some DX10/11
bolted on for fun, but essentially limited to the XBox 360, and they
aren't going to challenge your video card.

For Civ V, if it really bugs you, you may want to go for low tesselation.
IIRC, DX11 tesselation on the landscape is what drives the card batty.

-- 
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

> In a properly designed and cooled system there should be nothing a game
> can do to damage your video card.  Video cards are designed to run full
> out at high temperatures.

Something I wonder, in computing with general, is if heating can have 
long term effect on the machine. Although launching a game won't kill 
your system, how about running BOING or cloud computing stuff 24/7 ?

-Moa Dragon

On Mon, 11 Mar 2013 17:49:43 +0100, taxalot <taxalot@meh.fr> wrote:

>> In a properly designed and cooled system there should be nothing a game
>> can do to damage your video card.  Video cards are designed to run full
>> out at high temperatures.
>
>Something I wonder, in computing with general, is if heating can have 
>long term effect on the machine. Although launching a game won't kill 
>your system, how about running BOING or cloud computing stuff 24/7 ?
>
>-Moa Dragon

I've found electronic components are like a lot of things that operate
best under consistent conditions.  In other words if it gets hot and
stays hot most of the time, it's usually not a problem (because
remember most CPUs and GPUs are designed to shut themselves down if
they do reach dangerous temperatures).

But what will kill electronics, and many other things for that matter,
is too much heat CYCLING.  i.e. getting hot as hell then cold as fuck,
rinse and repeat over and over.  That results in expansion and
contraction of things and that eventually leads to things not making
contact with each other, etc.

This is one reason powering a PC down is often considered harder on it
than leaving it running all the time.  In most cases with regard to PC
parts, running a little hot, as long as your components aren't seizing
up is not too much of a problem, because under normal indoor temp and
humidity conditions, the heat cycling is not enough to cause too many
problems during the average lifetime of a PC.  

However there are some things to consider like if a fan fails or a
driver has a bug that affects temperature sensing or similar... that's
why I say it's good to always monitor temps.  I use a program called
Argus monitor for this.  It has good logging and can be set up to
alert you when things get over a certain temp.

taxalot <taxalot@meh.fr> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>> In a properly designed and cooled system there should be nothing a game
>> can do to damage your video card.  Video cards are designed to run full
>> out at high temperatures.
>
>Something I wonder, in computing with general, is if heating can have 
>long term effect on the machine. Although launching a game won't kill 
>your system, how about running BOING or cloud computing stuff 24/7 ?

I'm assuming that by BOING you actually meant BOINC.

I do run BOINC 24/365 running Seti, Rosetta, Einstein and Milkyway @home
jobs.  2 of 4 cores are permanently assigned to this and it uses the GPU
when the computer is idle.  
It's had negligible effect on heat production.
I do have a full tower case with good ventilation though.
If you have a smaller case with bad ventilation it's possible you could
have issues, but those issues would crop up under active gaming (that
actually pushes the hardware) as well so if you're ok there, you should
be fine.

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of 
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, 
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So 
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr 

Yes Kingdoms of Amalur is surprisingly hungry.
But I find it really pushes a system CPU & GPU .
lots of efficient performance even on an older Computer.

As for Civ V this is an 'known Issue' is well covered back in the thread 
here
"What Strategy Game For An Action & RPG Gamer ?"
starting on 24 Feb.

Look for Andrew Rybenkov posts there.
Quote;
>>>"...
Due incompetence of Firaxis programmers (who mastered DirectX API, but had 
no idea
about optimizations, and general programming techniques as well),
running Civ5 practically is the same as running Furmark/Kombuster hour after
hour. Quite a few gamers learnt it in hard way, forced to replace their 
untimely
died video cards.

So before running Civ5 (install and )launch MSI Afterburner. It will show 
you
FPS and GPU temperature during playing.
In game's video options:
set V-Sync ON,
set Fog of War to MINIMUM.
Begin to play, look at the temperature from time to time. If it is in normal 
range
and fans noise do not annoy you, keep playing and enjoy."<<<<

@@@mouse@@@ 

taxalot  <taxalot@meh.fr> wrote:
>Something I wonder, in computing with general, is if heating can have 
>long term effect on the machine. Although launching a game won't kill 
>your system, how about running BOING or cloud computing stuff 24/7 ?

I was recently reading a Google paper on the reliability of RAM in their
servers.  One of the things they found was that there wasn't a correlation
between temperature and error rates.  Memory DIMMs were as reliable in
hotter machines as they were in cooler ones.  Presumably Google used
aquedquate cooling to keep everything below max recommended operating
temperatures, but this suggests going beyond this with extra cooling
won't help your memory.

What they did find was that error rates were correlated with usage.
RAM that was more heavily used failed more often.  So at least as far
as the RAM in your PC goes the temperature increase caused by running
instensive computations 24/7 probably won't harm it, but the mere
fact that you're running these computations could have a negative long
term effect.

This doesn't say anything about the other components like your video
card or CPU, so there still may be long term consequences of higher
temperatures inside your case.

				Ross Ridge

-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //	  

Ross Ridge <rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> writes:
> I was recently reading a Google paper on the reliability of RAM in
> their servers.  One of the things they found was that there wasn't a
> correlation between temperature and error rates. ... What they did
> find was that error rates were correlated with usage.

Do you have a pointer to the paper?

Thanks,

-miles

-- 
Cat is power.  Cat is peace.

Ross Ridge <rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> writes:
> I was recently reading a Google paper on the reliability of RAM in
> their servers.  One of the things they found was that there wasn't a
> correlation between temperature and error rates. ... What they did
> find was that error rates were correlated with usage.

Miles Bader  <miles@gnu.org> wrote:
>Do you have a pointer to the paper?

http://www.cs.utoronto.ca/~bianca/papers/sigmetrics09.pdf

It's actually a pretty scary article, about 8.2% of their DIMMs had
an error during the study and once DIMM had one error it would usually
have more.   Since they use ECC memory, almost all of these errors were
corrected and allowing the server to continue running without incident.
In the average PC without ECC memory these errors would've caused
unexplained crashes or corruption of data.

					Ross Ridge

-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //	  

On Tue, 12 Mar 2013 03:59:54 -0000, "Trimble Bracegirdle"
<no-spam@never.spam> wrote:

>Yes Kingdoms of Amalur is surprisingly hungry.
>But I find it really pushes a system CPU & GPU .
>lots of efficient performance even on an older Computer.
>
>As for Civ V this is an 'known Issue' is well covered back in the thread 
>here
>"What Strategy Game For An Action & RPG Gamer ?"
>starting on 24 Feb.
>
>Look for Andrew Rybenkov posts there.
>Quote;
>>>>"...
>Due incompetence of Firaxis programmers (who mastered DirectX API, but had 
>no idea
>about optimizations, and general programming techniques as well),
>running Civ5 practically is the same as running Furmark/Kombuster hour after
>hour. Quite a few gamers learnt it in hard way, forced to replace their 
>untimely
>died video cards.
>
>So before running Civ5 (install and )launch MSI Afterburner. It will show 
>you
>FPS and GPU temperature during playing.
>In game's video options:
>set V-Sync ON,
>set Fog of War to MINIMUM.
>Begin to play, look at the temperature from time to time. If it is in normal 
>range
>and fans noise do not annoy you, keep playing and enjoy."<<<<
>
>@@@mouse@@@ 

But I have an eVGA (680).  Will it work?

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 21:34:10 -0600, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg, PW
wrote: 

>On Tue, 12 Mar 2013 03:59:54 -0000, "Trimble Bracegirdle"
><no-spam@never.spam> wrote:
>
>>Yes Kingdoms of Amalur is surprisingly hungry.
>>But I find it really pushes a system CPU & GPU .
>>lots of efficient performance even on an older Computer.
>>
>>As for Civ V this is an 'known Issue' is well covered back in the thread 
>>here
>>"What Strategy Game For An Action & RPG Gamer ?"
>>starting on 24 Feb.
>>
>>Look for Andrew Rybenkov posts there.
>>Quote;
>>>>>"...
>>Due incompetence of Firaxis programmers (who mastered DirectX API, but had 
>>no idea
>>about optimizations, and general programming techniques as well),
>>running Civ5 practically is the same as running Furmark/Kombuster hour after
>>hour. Quite a few gamers learnt it in hard way, forced to replace their 
>>untimely
>>died video cards.
>>
>>So before running Civ5 (install and )launch MSI Afterburner. It will show 
>>you
>>FPS and GPU temperature during playing.
>>In game's video options:
>>set V-Sync ON,
>>set Fog of War to MINIMUM.
>>Begin to play, look at the temperature from time to time. If it is in normal 
>>range
>>and fans noise do not annoy you, keep playing and enjoy."<<<<
>>
>>@@@mouse@@@ 
>
>But I have an eVGA (680).  Will it work?

I'm running on an eVGA 670 all settings max (DX11) and I haven't noticed
any shuttle launch sounds coming from the fan assembly.

I did with my 470, though. Civ V and space heater.

I will do a temp monitoring run next time I play if you like, pw.

-- 
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 00:13:33 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 21:34:10 -0600, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg, PW
>wrote: 
>
>>On Tue, 12 Mar 2013 03:59:54 -0000, "Trimble Bracegirdle"
>><no-spam@never.spam> wrote:
>>
>>>Yes Kingdoms of Amalur is surprisingly hungry.
>>>But I find it really pushes a system CPU & GPU .
>>>lots of efficient performance even on an older Computer.
>>>
>>>As for Civ V this is an 'known Issue' is well covered back in the thread 
>>>here
>>>"What Strategy Game For An Action & RPG Gamer ?"
>>>starting on 24 Feb.
>>>
>>>Look for Andrew Rybenkov posts there.
>>>Quote;
>>>>>>"...
>>>Due incompetence of Firaxis programmers (who mastered DirectX API, but had 
>>>no idea
>>>about optimizations, and general programming techniques as well),
>>>running Civ5 practically is the same as running Furmark/Kombuster hour after
>>>hour. Quite a few gamers learnt it in hard way, forced to replace their 
>>>untimely
>>>died video cards.
>>>
>>>So before running Civ5 (install and )launch MSI Afterburner. It will show 
>>>you
>>>FPS and GPU temperature during playing.
>>>In game's video options:
>>>set V-Sync ON,
>>>set Fog of War to MINIMUM.
>>>Begin to play, look at the temperature from time to time. If it is in normal 
>>>range
>>>and fans noise do not annoy you, keep playing and enjoy."<<<<
>>>
>>>@@@mouse@@@ 
>>
>>But I have an eVGA (680).  Will it work?
>
>I'm running on an eVGA 670 all settings max (DX11) and I haven't noticed
>any shuttle launch sounds coming from the fan assembly.
>
>I did with my 470, though. Civ V and space heater.
>
>I will do a temp monitoring run next time I play if you like, pw.


Thanks! I have a desktop GPU widget on my left monitor but it gets
blacked out when I play a game.  I did boot up Civ5 and when I quit it
the temp was only in the high 40s.  I did not play the game very long
though.

There is an eVGA utility ("Precision") but I need to try it and see if
it is available while I am playing a game.

Thanks Z!

-pw

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 20:05:27 +0400, PW <emailaddyinsig@ifiremember.com> wrote:

> There is an eVGA utility ("Precision") but I need to try it and see if
> it is available while I am playing a game.

MSI Afterburner - that is all you need (it shows hottest sensor out of three on
video card. In my case (5770) - VRAM temperature which is 6-7C hotter than GPU)

-- 
Andrew Rybenkov

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 10:05:27 -0600, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg, PW
wrote: 

>On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 00:13:33 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 21:34:10 -0600, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg, PW
>>wrote: 
>>
>>>On Tue, 12 Mar 2013 03:59:54 -0000, "Trimble Bracegirdle"
>>><no-spam@never.spam> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Yes Kingdoms of Amalur is surprisingly hungry.
>>>>But I find it really pushes a system CPU & GPU .
>>>>lots of efficient performance even on an older Computer.
>>>>
>>>>As for Civ V this is an 'known Issue' is well covered back in the thread 
>>>>here
>>>>"What Strategy Game For An Action & RPG Gamer ?"
>>>>starting on 24 Feb.
>>>>
>>>>Look for Andrew Rybenkov posts there.
>>>>Quote;
>>>>>>>"...
>>>>Due incompetence of Firaxis programmers (who mastered DirectX API, but had 
>>>>no idea
>>>>about optimizations, and general programming techniques as well),
>>>>running Civ5 practically is the same as running Furmark/Kombuster hour after
>>>>hour. Quite a few gamers learnt it in hard way, forced to replace their 
>>>>untimely
>>>>died video cards.
>>>>
>>>>So before running Civ5 (install and )launch MSI Afterburner. It will show 
>>>>you
>>>>FPS and GPU temperature during playing.
>>>>In game's video options:
>>>>set V-Sync ON,
>>>>set Fog of War to MINIMUM.
>>>>Begin to play, look at the temperature from time to time. If it is in normal 
>>>>range
>>>>and fans noise do not annoy you, keep playing and enjoy."<<<<
>>>>
>>>>@@@mouse@@@ 
>>>
>>>But I have an eVGA (680).  Will it work?
>>
>>I'm running on an eVGA 670 all settings max (DX11) and I haven't noticed
>>any shuttle launch sounds coming from the fan assembly.
>>
>>I did with my 470, though. Civ V and space heater.
>>
>>I will do a temp monitoring run next time I play if you like, pw.
>
>
>Thanks! I have a desktop GPU widget on my left monitor but it gets
>blacked out when I play a game.  I did boot up Civ5 and when I quit it
>the temp was only in the high 40s.  I did not play the game very long
>though.
>
>There is an eVGA utility ("Precision") but I need to try it and see if
>it is available while I am playing a game.
>
>Thanks Z!
>
>-pw

Civ V: all settings on max - 80C

Witcher 2: high settings - 81C

Witcher 2: uber settings - 82C

RAGE - high res textures - 70C

OCCT - Vid card Stress test - 79-80C

IOW, Civ (at all settings max) works the card hard, as hard as the stress
test, but it's not unlike other games. Witcher 2 is worse, and ~80-81C is
fine in my book. Anything around <85ish is okay in my book, really.

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop/geforce-gtx-680/specifications

Max op. temp for your 680 is 98C, which seems a bit excessive.

-- 
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

In article <4b94k8h7evrp7f3jo2lu783vima5mo3squ@4ax.com>, 
zaghadka@hotmail.com says...
> >
> >-pw
> 
> Civ V: all settings on max - 80C
> 
> Witcher 2: high settings - 81C
> 
> Witcher 2: uber settings - 82C
> 
> RAGE - high res textures - 70C
> 
> OCCT - Vid card Stress test - 79-80C
> 
> IOW, Civ (at all settings max) works the card hard, as hard as the stress
> test, but it's not unlike other games. Witcher 2 is worse, and ~80-81C is
> fine in my book. Anything around <85ish is okay in my book, really.
> 
> http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop/geforce-gtx-680/specifications
> 
> Max op. temp for your 680 is 98C, which seems a bit excessive.


Mmmh, after somebody gave me the tesselation tip on CivV I turned that 
off and subsequently the operating temp of the gpu has dropped by 10C. 

I just installed Fallout 3 GOTY and that won't run with Asus Smartdoctor 
installed .. so I had to take my monitoring program off. Fine by me, 
really, my ears are good enough as monitoring program ;-)for the time 
being. I may not last long with Fallout, the thing is so bug-ridden in 
terms of crashes, it's just not funny. Not to mention that scratching 
and scrounging for ammo all the time is tedious as hell (no, my toon is 
a good shot, but how many 10mm bullets does it take to kill a 
supermutant ... 1 mag at least. 

-P.

Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net> writes:
 I may not last long with Fallout, the thing is so bug-ridden in 
>>terms of crashes, it's just not funny. 
>
> Quite odd.
> Are you patched up fully and are you using mods?
>
> I used a few mods and the game remained pretty stable for me, just the
> odd blue-moon crash, but certainly nothing regular.

FWIW, on the PS3 I had a similar experience to yours:

There are definitely a few bugs, including some hanging bugs (and a
very annoying "can't finish, hope you have some pretty old saves" bug
in mothership zeta), but FO3 seems pretty average in terms of bugs.

Consider the complexity, it's not really too bad I'd say -- it
certainly didn't seem buggy enough to detract from the fun (and it's a
super fun game).

>> Not to mention that scratching and scrounging for ammo all the time
>> is tedious as hell (no, my toon is a good shot, but how many 10mm
>> bullets does it take to kill a supermutant ... 1 mag at least.
>
> Well it does take more ammo early on and it really does depend on
> your character skills and if you are using the VATS.  Headshots if
> you can make them seriously cut down on the number of hits required.
> The weapon you choose makes all the difference in the world -
> accuracy is so very very important if you want quick kills.

Yeah ammo can be an issue in the early game but it sorts itself out
eventually.

A good source of ammo and weapons in the early game is the super
mutants themselves, as most of them are carrying hunting rifles, which
are a decent weapon that doesn't use lots of ammo to get the job done.

-miles

-- 
永日の　澄んだ紺から　永遠へ

Peter Huebner <no.one@this.address> looked up from reading the entrails
of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>In article <4b94k8h7evrp7f3jo2lu783vima5mo3squ@4ax.com>, 
>zaghadka@hotmail.com says...
>> >
>> >-pw
>> 
>> Civ V: all settings on max - 80C
>> 
>> Witcher 2: high settings - 81C
>> 
>> Witcher 2: uber settings - 82C
>> 
>> RAGE - high res textures - 70C
>> 
>> OCCT - Vid card Stress test - 79-80C
>> 
>> IOW, Civ (at all settings max) works the card hard, as hard as the stress
>> test, but it's not unlike other games. Witcher 2 is worse, and ~80-81C is
>> fine in my book. Anything around <85ish is okay in my book, really.
>> 
>> http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop/geforce-gtx-680/specifications
>> 
>> Max op. temp for your 680 is 98C, which seems a bit excessive.
>
>
>Mmmh, after somebody gave me the tesselation tip on CivV I turned that 
>off and subsequently the operating temp of the gpu has dropped by 10C. 
>
>I just installed Fallout 3 GOTY and that won't run with Asus Smartdoctor 
>installed .. so I had to take my monitoring program off. Fine by me, 
>really, my ears are good enough as monitoring program ;-)for the time 
>being. I may not last long with Fallout, the thing is so bug-ridden in 
>terms of crashes, it's just not funny. 

Quite odd.
Are you patched up fully and are you using mods?

I used a few mods and the game remained pretty stable for me, just the
odd blue-moon crash, but certainly nothing regular.

>Not to mention that scratching 
>and scrounging for ammo all the time is tedious as hell (no, my toon is 
>a good shot, but how many 10mm bullets does it take to kill a 
>supermutant ... 1 mag at least. 

Well it does take more ammo early on and it really does depend on your
character skills and if you are using the VATS.
Headshots if you can make them seriously cut down on the number of hits
required.
The weapon you choose makes all the difference in the world - accuracy
is so very very important if you want quick kills.

I don't recall exactly when you get it, but Lincoln's Repeater is one
hell of a weapon, good damage and very accurate - it became my weapon of
choice for the time I got it right to the end of the game.
Very good for sniping, both with VATS or manually (I could shoot
manually from longer distances than VATS would allow.)

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of 
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, 
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So 
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr 

In article <7fo5k8hdporbssl1a8fi8373uabkmcojqn@4ax.com>, 
Xocyll@kingston.net says...
> >
> >I just installed Fallout 3 GOTY and that won't run with Asus Smartdoctor 
> >installed .. so I had to take my monitoring program off. Fine by me, 
> >really, my ears are good enough as monitoring program ;-)for the time 
> >being. I may not last long with Fallout, the thing is so bug-ridden in 
> >terms of crashes, it's just not funny. 
> 
> Quite odd.
> Are you patched up fully and are you using mods?

It's been a bloody saga. 

First after install the game would always crash on startup (before I had 
a savegame).

Reset computer - copy protection wouldn't let the game start, starforce 
I think, didn't like my blueray drive, crazy head hammering in there ... 
downloaded hacked nocd patch .. 

Crash due to some .dll pointer not working was next. Google. Downloaded 
and installed FOMM (fallout mod manager) and used it to create a fake 
.dll file. 

Game started, but crashed again during new game setup. 
Google.
found the info about smartdoctor. Uninstalled that, and, for the first 
time, I actually got through to the tutorial. I've still had the odd 
moment - black screen during load, or complete freeze a few seconds 
after zoning. Funnily enough, it's getting less frequent with the 
crashes: I've managed to play 5 hours or so today without a crash.

I have all the mods, but haven't turned them on. I expect I'll play at 
least to level 20 before I do that, if the game remains stable in the 
meantime.

> Well it does take more ammo early on and it really does depend on your
> character skills and if you are using the VATS.
> Headshots if you can make them seriously cut down on the number of hits
> required.
> The weapon you choose makes all the difference in the world - accuracy
> is so very very important if you want quick kills.

Yes, I am very familiar with the headshot thing. In the original fallout 
I built a character that could shoot the eye off a fly on the wall from 
50m away or more {grin}. I haven't used the vats much for sniping yet. I 
found the easteregg sniper rifle outside Megaton, so I'm just getting my 
hand in there. Some friendly raiders in the supermarket donated a couple 
of assault rifles for mid-range combat also. But I haven't really left 
the environs of Megaton yet with my latest toon (3rd build, and getting 
more effective than the first two).

> I don't recall exactly when you get it, but Lincoln's Repeater is one
> hell of a weapon, good damage and very accurate - it became my weapon of
> choice for the time I got it right to the end of the game.

will keep my eye open for it. Thanks.

> Very good for sniping, both with VATS or manually (I could shoot
> manually from longer distances than VATS would allow.)
> 
> Xocyll

-P.

Peter Huebner <no.one@this.address> looked up from reading the entrails
of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>In article <7fo5k8hdporbssl1a8fi8373uabkmcojqn@4ax.com>, 
>Xocyll@kingston.net says...
>> >
>> >I just installed Fallout 3 GOTY and that won't run with Asus Smartdoctor 
>> >installed .. so I had to take my monitoring program off. Fine by me, 
>> >really, my ears are good enough as monitoring program ;-)for the time 
>> >being. I may not last long with Fallout, the thing is so bug-ridden in 
>> >terms of crashes, it's just not funny. 
>> 
>> Quite odd.
>> Are you patched up fully and are you using mods?
>
>It's been a bloody saga. 
>
>First after install the game would always crash on startup (before I had 
>a savegame).
>
>Reset computer - copy protection wouldn't let the game start, starforce 
>I think, didn't like my blueray drive, crazy head hammering in there ... 
>downloaded hacked nocd patch .. 
>
>Crash due to some .dll pointer not working was next. Google. Downloaded 
>and installed FOMM (fallout mod manager) and used it to create a fake 
>.dll file. 
>
>Game started, but crashed again during new game setup. 
>Google.
>found the info about smartdoctor. Uninstalled that, and, for the first 
>time, I actually got through to the tutorial. I've still had the odd 
>moment - black screen during load, or complete freeze a few seconds 
>after zoning. Funnily enough, it's getting less frequent with the 
>crashes: I've managed to play 5 hours or so today without a crash.

Wow, sounds like you've had quite a time.

>I have all the mods, but haven't turned them on. I expect I'll play at 
>least to level 20 before I do that, if the game remains stable in the 
>meantime.

I have to ask, what GPU do you use?

>> Well it does take more ammo early on and it really does depend on your
>> character skills and if you are using the VATS.
>> Headshots if you can make them seriously cut down on the number of hits
>> required.
>> The weapon you choose makes all the difference in the world - accuracy
>> is so very very important if you want quick kills.
>
>Yes, I am very familiar with the headshot thing. In the original fallout 
>I built a character that could shoot the eye off a fly on the wall from 
>50m away or more {grin}. I haven't used the vats much for sniping yet. I 
>found the easteregg sniper rifle outside Megaton, so I'm just getting my 
>hand in there. Some friendly raiders in the supermarket donated a couple 
>of assault rifles for mid-range combat also. But I haven't really left 
>the environs of Megaton yet with my latest toon (3rd build, and getting 
>more effective than the first two).
>
>> I don't recall exactly when you get it, but Lincoln's Repeater is one
>> hell of a weapon, good damage and very accurate - it became my weapon of
>> choice for the time I got it right to the end of the game.
>
>will keep my eye open for it. Thanks.

Kinda funky that in a post apocalyptic world which includes weapons up
to and including laser miniguns, one of the most effective weapons is
from the 1860s.

Not so great if loads of things are coming at you at once, since it
doesn't hold a lot of bullets or fire that fast, but if you like picking
off unsuspecting enemies, it's golden.

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of 
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, 
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So 
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr 

In article <99g6k8d0nh5n4gjd9iti5v9ok65iu0q4ig@4ax.com>, 
Xocyll@kingston.net says...

> 
> I have to ask, what GPU do you use?

Asus branded geforce 570 gtx 

 
> Kinda funky that in a post apocalyptic world which includes weapons up
> to and including laser miniguns, one of the most effective weapons is
> from the 1860s.
> 
> Not so great if loads of things are coming at you at once, since it
> doesn't hold a lot of bullets or fire that fast, but if you like picking
> off unsuspecting enemies, it's golden.

Yes, sniper rifles are very unwieldy close in - as are slow loading 
rifles obviously. I don't know yet if they have any good SMGs in this 
game for that situation. Even the 10mm pistol can be reasonably fast if 
you can avoid getting rocked by a melee attack. 
It's a bit unrealistic that in FO3 your character always points the 
rifle skywards to work the bolt though. 3/4 of a second and a little 
shake would be more realistic. Same with the wobble on the sniper rifle 
that just doesn't stop: breathe out, steady yourself just before you 
know the target will move into the open and you don't wobble in RL. Just 
timing then ... squeeze, don't pull!

As I recall from the first Fallout, the plasma rifle did a very nice 
amount of damage that you could only get close to with a good head-crit 
(eye?) from a projectile rifle.
Been a long long time since I played that, loved all the Monty Python 
allusions/cameos - oh, and of course there was the whale and the 
flowerpot as well: Douglas Adams, Hitchhiker's Guide.

> Xocyll

On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 14:42:40 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:


>
>Civ V: all settings on max - 80C
>
>Witcher 2: high settings - 81C
>
>Witcher 2: uber settings - 82C
>
>RAGE - high res textures - 70C
>
>OCCT - Vid card Stress test - 79-80C
>
>IOW, Civ (at all settings max) works the card hard, as hard as the stress
>test, but it's not unlike other games. Witcher 2 is worse, and ~80-81C is
>fine in my book. Anything around <85ish is okay in my book, really.
>
>http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop/geforce-gtx-680/specifications
>
>Max op. temp for your 680 is 98C, which seems a bit excessive.
>
>-- 
>Zag
>
>No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
>spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

The nVidia 6xx/Titan Kepler series has very sophisticated built-in
power limiting and thermal protection. The card will slow execution
cycles if over-dissipating. Short of capriciously modifying the BIOS,
you should be safe. Try running Furmark and notice the hiccups in the
thermal graph and the FPS slow-down. That's the protection coming into
play. Make sure that the case ventilation iis optimized if you want
maximum performance.

John Lewis

On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 16:01:08 +1300, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg, Peter
Huebner wrote: 

>I just installed Fallout 3 GOTY and that won't run with Asus Smartdoctor 
>installed .. so I had to take my monitoring program off.

Try using http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html.

It won't give you contiguous graphs, but it will tell you what your
CPU/GPU and HDD max temp was when you close your software.

-- 
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

On Sat, 16 Mar 2013 01:17:40 GMT, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg, John
Lewis wrote: 

>On Thu, 14 Mar 2013 14:42:40 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Civ V: all settings on max - 80C
>>
>>Witcher 2: high settings - 81C
>>
>>Witcher 2: uber settings - 82C
>>
>>RAGE - high res textures - 70C
>>
>>OCCT - Vid card Stress test - 79-80C
>>
>>IOW, Civ (at all settings max) works the card hard, as hard as the stress
>>test, but it's not unlike other games. Witcher 2 is worse, and ~80-81C is
>>fine in my book. Anything around <85ish is okay in my book, really.
>>
>>http://www.geforce.com/hardware/desktop/geforce-gtx-680/specifications
>>
>>Max op. temp for your 680 is 98C, which seems a bit excessive.
>>
>>-- 
>>Zag
>>
>>No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
>>spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten
>
>The nVidia 6xx/Titan Kepler series has very sophisticated built-in
>power limiting and thermal protection. The card will slow execution
>cycles if over-dissipating. Short of capriciously modifying the BIOS,
>you should be safe. Try running Furmark and notice the hiccups in the
>thermal graph and the FPS slow-down. That's the protection coming into
>play. Make sure that the case ventilation iis optimized if you want
>maximum performance.
>

I've found that monitoring software is good if you suspect your fans are
caked up with dust. I have that problem in my house; I own cats.

Regardless of any safeguards they put on the hardware, and the Kepler
stuff is solid, it's a good idea to keep a loose eye on the ball.

-- 
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

Zaghadka  <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Try using http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html.
>
>CPU/GPU and HDD max temp was when you close your software.

This is what I use.  Nice and simple and works with just about anything.
It also works on a second display without blacking out.

					Ross Ridge

-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //	  

>>"Civ V: all settings on max - 80C"<<<

IMO you shouldn't have to put up with that.
That is CIV V doesn't need or really use that much Graphic card power.
I mean its just a turn based mostly static screen thing.
I can see by comparing CPU with GPU activity that its
not very demanding but inefficient.

Check out the hints re. this & setting 'Fog of War' & 'Tessellation'  Low
A hint to use a Frame Rate Limiter to set FPS to 20 FPS seemed
ridiculous to me .
But it does work ok n smooth given the nature of the game
& brings the GPU Temp. down.
Mostly problems with ATI cards .
Installation of the 'Gods & Generals' extension add-on calms it all down 
quite a lot more.
@@@mouse@@@

On Sat, 16 Mar 2013 22:17:52 -0000, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg, Trimble
Bracegirdle wrote: 

>>>"Civ V: all settings on max - 80C"<<<
>
>IMO you shouldn't have to put up with that.
>That is CIV V doesn't need or really use that much Graphic card power.
>I mean its just a turn based mostly static screen thing.
>I can see by comparing CPU with GPU activity that its
>not very demanding but inefficient.
>
>Check out the hints re. this & setting 'Fog of War' & 'Tessellation'  Low
>A hint to use a Frame Rate Limiter to set FPS to 20 FPS seemed
>ridiculous to me .
>But it does work ok n smooth given the nature of the game
>& brings the GPU Temp. down.
>Mostly problems with ATI cards .
>Installation of the 'Gods & Generals' extension add-on calms it all down 
>quite a lot more.

Yeah. I recommended ditching tesselation, not sure if I was the first. I
truly can't tell the difference, even when it's fully zoomed. Talk about
pushing polygons!

With tesselation turned to low, and fog o' war at medium, the card is
sitting at ~65-66C during 3D map play, with peaks of 77C, which I think
occurs during the leader screens (which I kept at max settings).

I think I'll keep it that way. ;^)

-- 
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net> writes:

> Not so great if loads of things are coming at you at once, since it
> doesn't hold a lot of bullets or fire that fast, but if you like picking
> off unsuspecting enemies, it's golden.

Yeah, the Lincoln's Repeater was my favorite too. At one point I got so
sick and tired of the inaccurate weapons in FO3 that I hunted down every
unique weapon with zero drift. Really helps tone down the annoyance
factor...

Any body with hot card worries really should consider a utility that
will let you set your Fan Activity Level - turn it up higher.
Most cards seem to have the pre-set levels right down to keep noise minimum.
I'd rather have cool card & never mind the noise.

Here is a comparative list of a lot of different available ones.
Many have a particular Graphic Card Manufacturer's name on them - but they
all (should) work on any card.
http://www.firstever.eu/en/the-worlds-best-gpu-overclocking-tools-2012/


MSI Afterburner is very good for both ATI & Geforce

The quantity of options & MSI's emphasis on Overclocking makers it look
more complex & over the top than most Bunnies will want.
But you can ignore all that if you want to.
Its easy to set up just for your own Fan Control characteristics

http://event.msi.com/vga/afterburner/download.htm

This one SAPPHIRE TriXX is the simplest to set up.
Will do the User Set Fan Control well
Just select Fan Control - Custom & drag the white graph dots
(& make other ones) to get the Fan activity level you want.
Will auto start with Windows.
https://www.sapphireselectclub.com/ssc/TriXX/TriXX.aspx

Just ignore all the Overclocking references & Manufacture Specific names.


(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 20:17:19 -0000, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg, Trimble
Bracegirdle wrote: 

>Any body with hot card worries really should consider a utility that
>will let you set your Fan Activity Level - turn it up higher.
>Most cards seem to have the pre-set levels right down to keep noise minimum.
>I'd rather have cool card & never mind the noise.
>
>Here is a comparative list of a lot of different available ones.
>Many have a particular Graphic Card Manufacturer's name on them - but they
>all (should) work on any card.
>http://www.firstever.eu/en/the-worlds-best-gpu-overclocking-tools-2012/
>
>
>MSI Afterburner is very good for both ATI & Geforce
>
>The quantity of options & MSI's emphasis on Overclocking makers it look
>more complex & over the top than most Bunnies will want.
>But you can ignore all that if you want to.
>Its easy to set up just for your own Fan Control characteristics
>
>http://event.msi.com/vga/afterburner/download.htm
>
>This one SAPPHIRE TriXX is the simplest to set up.
>Will do the User Set Fan Control well
>Just select Fan Control - Custom & drag the white graph dots
>(& make other ones) to get the Fan activity level you want.
>Will auto start with Windows.
>https://www.sapphireselectclub.com/ssc/TriXX/TriXX.aspx
>
>Just ignore all the Overclocking references & Manufacture Specific names.
>
>

Or, if you have the ability, install a Zalman aftermarket cooler. I did
that on my X850 upstairs, and I haven't seen it get past 60C at full load
on a stress test, when it used to go to 80-85C during basic gaming with
the noisy stock cooler. I could even switch the clocks from an XT to an
XT PE if I wanted, and only hit 65C.

And Zalman fan at full speed == less noise than stock at 70% speed for
that performance.

With encased cooler cards, that's a scarier option though. Anyone tried
aftermarket on a two-slot encased cooling card?

-- 
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

I would do that Cooler upgrade for my HD 5870 .
But I've never found one that gives decent - or even bit better than 
original-
& the fuss of getting at the thing out of its casing is
(from what guides I've seen) Nightmare.

This is an early HD 5870 with single energetic Fan...
does a good job at high rates..but its the nosiest
thing I've ever had in a computer at 100%.
I'm nearly always inside Headphones when Computer-ing so
noise not a annoyance.

ATI changed the case design to get lower temps with twin Fan.
Wondered when I brought why it was a very Low price ;)
@@@mouse@@@ 

In article <mkbfk89tcgmoig2eiq606u7bo01n0ad9dp@4ax.com>, 
zaghadka@hotmail.com says...
> 
> With encased cooler cards, that's a scarier option though. Anyone tried
> aftermarket on a two-slot encased cooling card?
> 

I put a water-block on my 8800 ;-)

No going to go down the water-cooling route again though, it was an 
interesting experiment but it makes things awkward when you have to work 
in the box and it's really not THAT much more quiet. 

On Mar 15, 7:01 am, Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> wrote:
> In article <7fo5k8hdporbssl1a8fi8373uabkmco...@4ax.com>,
> Xoc...@kingston.net says...

> I have all the mods, but haven't turned them on. I expect I'll play at
> least to level 20 before I do that, if the game remains stable in the
> meantime.

I strongly recommend using at least the xp mod, unmodded the game is
easier at the hardest difficulty than the easiest because you get more
xp and level faster in the hardest.

Also recommend using a melee weapon to conserve ammo - even if you
aren't good with it, killing the easy stuff with a baseball bat is
good.

Besides my favorite weapon is melee - nothing like killing it with
fire!  flaming sword ftw!

- Justisaur

Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com> looked up from reading the entrails of
the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Mar 15, 7:01 am, Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> wrote:
>> In article <7fo5k8hdporbssl1a8fi8373uabkmco...@4ax.com>,
>> Xoc...@kingston.net says...
>
>> I have all the mods, but haven't turned them on. I expect I'll play at
>> least to level 20 before I do that, if the game remains stable in the
>> meantime.
>
>I strongly recommend using at least the xp mod, unmodded the game is
>easier at the hardest difficulty than the easiest because you get more
>xp and level faster in the hardest.

Ahh I'm playing at whatever the default difficulty was.

The only mods I'm using thus far are a custom race mod (smaller
character size and custom faces) and some cosmetic mods.

Downloaded but haven't installed yet a magic extension mod since I'm
finding the number of spells available a bit underwhelming.
Looking at another one that does a complete revamp of the magic system,
but that one I think I'll save for another playthrough.

Really missing the custom spell design of Daggerfall/Morrowind/Oblivion.
Not a real fan of the new, very limited, item enchantment system either.

And what's with having only one ring?  Even D&D let you have one on each
hand.

>Also recommend using a melee weapon to conserve ammo - even if you
>aren't good with it, killing the easy stuff with a baseball bat is
>good.

I mostly don't like melee, although a later playthrough I might do it.

I went magic this time - next time will probably be an archer of some
sort.  I used a bow a little at the beginning of this character since
I'd run out of mana easily vs some things - and of course it's kind of
hard to get the dragons attention when you only have the original issue
short range spells and it won't come in range.

I loved the crossbow in Morrowind and was quite sad when Oblivion went
bows only.

>Besides my favorite weapon is melee - nothing like killing it with
>fire!  flaming sword ftw!

Bah, nothing like killing it with huge gouts of fire or ice or
lightning.

One curious thing I'm noticing - sometimes my enemies seem to get
reduced to piles of ash.
This would make sense were I hurling fireballs at them, but using Ice
Storm????

Oh any comment on the Unofficial Skyrim Patch?
Worth getting, mandatory, not worth it?

Xocyll
-- 
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of 
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably, 
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So 
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr