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Thread View: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic
12 messages
12 total messages Started by Dan Stephenson Sat, 26 Feb 2011 00:29
Rome Total War Tactics: City Defense
#716314
Author: Dan Stephenson
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 00:29
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I composed this on the mac version of this group but it's quiet over 
there.  Here is my composition on city defense.  Thoughts?  RTW is 
totally amazing, I sure wish they'd make a new version of it.

1) the biggest danger when your city is attacked are the seige towers, 
as they put out a lot of fire on your troops on the walls.  If you 
defend you walls, keep them off the walls until the tower gets very 
close, then try to get them in position.  You will be able to, if you 
time it right.  And your troops will not be reduced by half from the 
tower fire.
2) This does mean you cannot reduce the enemy forces by arrow fire of 
your own, if you're keeping your troops off the wall.  Therefore, if 
there is a sizeable force attacking, and I have modest defense forces, 
I skip defending the walls.  Let the the enemy have them.  I repeat the 
bridge-defense mechanism, and defend a narrow street leading into the 
city square.  Typically, the enemy only goes for one entrance, or if 
multiple, a great majority go for one entrance only.  So align your 
best defense infantry with your archers behind firing fire-arrows.   
I've used this tactic many times with success.  When I win on Very Hard 
difficulty settings, the key is to keep winning new cities with your 
armies, not keeping your best troops in cities to defend them through 
raw numbers. Raw numbers confer no advantage.
3)  If your city gates are busted open from a prior attack, or similar 
with a section of wall, use the bridge-defense tactic there.  About 50% 
of the time, the enemy streams toward that one open spot.  This is 
particularly crucial in the wooden walls where you cannot place archers 
on the tops of the walls.  By the way, the "lead enemy general in front 
of towers" works with the weak wooden wall towers, just not as well.   
You have to be very interactive and run around in a kind of circle.   
The enemy (or your troops for that matter) never ever cut a corner in a 
chase.  They obey a line-of-sight pursuit guidance and therefore always 
result in a tail-chase.
4) You can often send out a cavalry unit to tease the enemy to chase it 
to the walls, where you escape through the gates.  But not before the 
towers and the huge numbers of archers you've emplaced on the walls do 
their damage.
5) Many times, if you sortie to attack a besieger, they run away.  The 
way enemy formations move, is often in their battle formation or 
similar.  This means, if you can guess which way they will run, you can 
place your long-range archers all on that one side of your walls, and 
they'll take 
out a lot of enemy before your infantry even leave the gates.
6) When those beseiging armies run, send your general / cav units out 
first, to chase down stragglers.  Especially the artillery units.   
Also, archers often run slower than enemy spearman, and cav typically 
beats archers.  Even if the enemy spearmen and archers are running at 
the same pace, they'll be separated and you can attack the archers 
anyway, or at least shock-attack and then run away before the spearmen 
arrive.  
7) When the battering ram lumbers in, time a cavalry attack to occur 
just as it gets in range of the tower fire.  This attack causes the ram 
to stop.  Then race your cav back to safety.  The extra time is usually 
enough to cause it to catch fire.  This "attack to stop" also works for 
towers and ladder-carriers, although attacking towers usually aren't 
destroyed, but, ladder-carriers are very vulnerable and you can get 
many kills in.  Especially if this disturbs the enemy unit when within 
range if your archers on the walls. Note: you may have to send out 
the cav from the side gates, to avoid getting mobbed by the enemy.   
Usually, there is still time to run around.
8) If a unit gets in your city, feint-attack it with cavalry to draw
it into a chase.  Have the enemy unit chase your cav all along the 
inside of the walls, where inward firing towers will take out the enemy 
unit.
9) Often when attacking with a sortie from the city, and particular 
true for huge numbers of Hordes, keep your back to your city walls, 
particularly with one or two of your towers nearby.  Mini-sortie with 
loose formation archers to take out their horse archers.  When they 
attack, go to close formation and withdraw behind your infantry line.   
Then fire more arrows, and this time the towers join in the fire.  And 
if at any point the enemy truly engages, you will at least have your towers on 
your side.
10) One of the best ways to defend a city under seige, is to attack a 
city of the beseiging army.  That will draw off their army in order to 
attack your beseiging forces.  This does not always require a BIG army 
on your part, either.  This is key to victory when I played as the 
Frankes on Very Hard / Very Hard, where you are surrounded by nations 
and you are always getting under seige.
11) Upgrading to even the smallest stone wall is crucial, so you can 
have archers on the walls.  You can have a ton of archers in a wooden 
walled city, and they really won't do any good.  Put them on a small 
stone wall, and they can be devestating to an attacking enemy.
12) Typically onagers are useless inside your city, as you cannot take them
outside the walls.  However, there is a potentially large benefit in defense
of city walls when attacked by towers.  This is particularly true of
the large city walls where the enemy towers are extremely powerful.  The
tactic is, when deploying your troops, place the onagers far back in the city,
on side-streets.  The idea is to provide them a line of fire.. to the attacking
towers!  This is the only way I know of it destroy the big powerful attacking
towers.  The tactic does not always work because you do not know in
advance where the attack towers are positioned, or where they will go
when you start the battle, or the window of time when the line of fire is
available may be small.  But try for it, and if they have just tower in
particular, or if you have multiple onagers, it may be possible to rob the
enemy of their best chance at taking your city walls.
-- 
Dan Stephenson
http://web.mac.com/stepheda
Travel pages for Europe and the U.S.A. (and New Zealand too)
Re: Rome Total War Tactics: City Defense
#716315
Author: Sheldon England
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 00:56
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Dan Stephenson wrote:
> RTW is totally amazing, I sure wish they'd make a new version of it.

They are releasing Shogun 2 - Total War later this year and most are 
sure that Rome will be the next re-make. IMO Rome, Shogun, and Medieval 
2 are the best of the TW games.


   - Sheldon
Re: Rome Total War Tactics: City Defense
#716316
Author: Dan Stephenson
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 10:25
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On 2011-02-25 18:56:00 -0600, Sheldon England said:

> Dan Stephenson wrote:
>> RTW is totally amazing, I sure wish they'd make a new version of it.
> 
> They are releasing Shogun 2 - Total War later this year and most are 
> sure that Rome will be the next re-make. IMO Rome, Shogun, and Medieval 
> 2 are the best of the TW games.
> 
> 
>    - Sheldon

What is the gameplay in Shogun like?  I mean, is it RTW transplanted to Japan?
-- 
Dan Stephenson
http://web.mac.com/stepheda
Travel pages for Europe and the U.S.A. (and New Zealand too)
Re: Rome Total War Tactics: City Defense
#716317
Author: rob
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 16:36
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"Dan Stephenson"  wrote ...


>>> RTW is totally amazing, I sure wish they'd make a new version of it.
>>
>> They are releasing Shogun 2 - Total War later this year and most are sure 
>> that Rome will be the next re-make. IMO Rome, Shogun, and Medieval 2 are 
>> the best of the TW games.

> What is the gameplay in Shogun like?  I mean, is it RTW transplanted to 
> Japan?

Demo is available at Steam, probably other places as well.
I'm in Christchurch so will download it as soon as my broadband is back up 
Re: Rome Total War Tactics: City Defense
#716325
Author: Insane Ranter
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2011 10:57
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On Feb 25, 7:56 pm, Sheldon England <sheldonengl...@netscape.net>
wrote:
> Dan Stephenson wrote:
> > RTW is totally amazing, I sure wish they'd make a new version of it.
>
> They are releasing Shogun 2 - Total War later this year and most are
> sure that Rome will be the next re-make. IMO Rome, Shogun, and Medieval
> 2 are the best of the TW games.
>
>    - Sheldon

I want a WW1 version!
Re: Rome Total War Tactics: City Defense
#716318
Author: Sheldon England
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 22:57
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Dan Stephenson wrote:
>
> What is the gameplay in Shogun like? I mean, is it RTW transplanted to
> Japan?

Actually, they have dumbed down the tactics/battles in each new game. 
Shogun has the best 'models' of them all. The graphics are obviously not 
as nice but only in Shogun do troops tire out when climbing hills so 
height is an important advantage. Rain/snow and wind affect arrow 
accuracy and effectiveness, and fog obscures. Bridge provinces (rivers 
that can only be crossed at primary bridges) are a major pain to capture 
but a delight to defend.

As far as the campaign, it is similar to Rome but there is no senate to 
get in your way. The emperor may favour other clans but there is nothing 
stopping you from attacking at will. The Portugese and Dutch traders 
eventually bring in muskets and arquebusiers ... and Christianity if you 
so choose. The ninja are like assassins but moreso the geisha are spies 
and your best hired killers. Each of the clans have strengths and 
weaknesses.

There are no siege weapons at all in Shogun but you can still lay siege 
to castles in the campaign map. There are no missions -- just war and 
politics. Kensai are fun to watch in action -- these are sword masters 
who can as individuals take out small groups of enemies.

The biggest failing of Shogun, IMO, is the beach invasion oversight. 
Once you know where an enemy port is, you can send armies from your 
ports to beach invade. The enemy AI never takes advantage of this in 
return so I play without ever using this loophole. Apparently Shogun 2 
will include naval warfare.

FWIW.


   - Sheldon
Rome Total War: what do you want in a sequel?
#716319
Author: Dan Stephenson
Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2011 01:13
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On 2011-03-02 16:57:57 -0600, Sheldon England said:

> Dan Stephenson wrote:
>> 
>> What is the gameplay in Shogun like? I mean, is it RTW transplanted to
>> Japan?
> 
> Actually, they have dumbed down the tactics/battles in each new game.

Well this is bad news.  I hope the developers know better when they 
make the sequel to Rome Total War.

I would also like to see onagers and ballistas on city walls, or, at 
least be able to direct towers to what I want them to shoot at.

-- 
Dan Stephenson
http://web.mac.com/stepheda
Travel pages for Europe and the U.S.A. (and New Zealand too)
Re: Rome Total War Tactics: City Defense
#716324
Author: Ross Ridge
Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2011 18:07
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Sheldon England  <sheldonengland@netscape.net> wrote:
>Actually, they have dumbed down the tactics/battles in each new game. 
>Shogun has the best 'models' of them all. The graphics are obviously not 
>as nice but only in Shogun do troops tire out when climbing hills so 
>height is an important advantage. Rain/snow and wind affect arrow 
>accuracy and effectiveness, and fog obscures. Bridge provinces (rivers 
>that can only be crossed at primary bridges) are a major pain to capture 
>but a delight to defend.

I remeber all these things (except wind) affecting battles in Rome:
Total War.  I've never played Shogun or any other of the games in the
series, so I don't know if they had as big a factor in Rome, but I've
definately used these things to my advantage.

					Ross Ridge

-- 
 l/  //	  Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo]  rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/  http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rridge/ 
 db  //	  
Re: Rome Total War: what do you want in a sequel?
#716320
Author: Spalls Hurgenson
Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2011 17:09
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On Fri, 4 Mar 2011 19:13:06 -0600, Dan Stephenson
<stephedanospam@mac.com> wrote:

>On 2011-03-02 16:57:57 -0600, Sheldon England said:
>
One feature I've always wanted is to have the computer resolve the
battles, but let me WATCH it do so. 

I enjoy the strategic game but I'm tactically inept when it comes to
the actual battles. Fortunately, the games let you autoresolve the
conflicts, but they did it behind the scenes; you just got a summary
screen telling you the outcome. Since the whole point of the Total War
games was battles with the insane number of units, I missed out on a
lot of the experience.

Watching the battles would be a lot more fun than a dry outcome
summary. It might inspire me to fight a few of the battles myself,
too.
Re: Rome Total War: what do you want in a sequel?
#716321
Author: John Doe
Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2011 18:46
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Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson gmail.com> wrote: 

> Dan Stephenson <stephedanospam@mac.com> wrote: 
>> Sheldon England said: 
>>
> One feature I've always wanted is to have the computer resolve
> the battles, but let me WATCH it do so. 

I had the same (IMO good) idea about chess, but most were too
anti-chess computer at the time. 

That sounds like a good option for real-time strategy (RTS), 
when playing either skirmish or multiplayer. 
-- 














> 
> I enjoy the strategic game but I'm tactically inept when it comes 
to
> the actual battles. Fortunately, the games let you autoresolve the
> conflicts, but they did it behind the scenes; you just got a 
summary
> screen telling you the outcome. Since the whole point of the Total 
War
> games was battles with the insane number of units, I missed out on 
a
> lot of the experience.
> 
> Watching the battles would be a lot more fun than a dry outcome
> summary. It might inspire me to fight a few of the battles myself,
> too.
> 
> 
> 
Re: Rome Total War: what do you want in a sequel?
#716322
Author: Dan Stephenson
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 03:05
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On 2011-03-06 11:09:25 -0600, Spalls Hurgenson said:

> On Fri, 4 Mar 2011 19:13:06 -0600, Dan Stephenson
> <stephedanospam@mac.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 2011-03-02 16:57:57 -0600, Sheldon England said:
>> 
> One feature I've always wanted is to have the computer resolve the
> battles, but let me WATCH it do so.
> 
> I enjoy the strategic game but I'm tactically inept when it comes to
> the actual battles. Fortunately, the games let you autoresolve the
> conflicts, but they did it behind the scenes; you just got a summary
> screen telling you the outcome. Since the whole point of the Total War
> games was battles with the insane number of units, I missed out on a
> lot of the experience.

That is a good point.  After all, the computer DOES do the AI.  Even AI 
for 're-enforcement armies'.

Did you read my city defense article?  Hopefully that gave you some 
ideas.  I'll write a big battlefield article at some point, but not 
tonight.  The basics, though, are: put archers behind infantry and try 
to use cavalry to wheel around the enemy and attack while they're 
engaged with your infantry.

> 
> Watching the battles would be a lot more fun than a dry outcome
> summary. It might inspire me to fight a few of the battles myself,
> too.

even if you do nothing in the battles, you can watch the AI attack you. 
 Usually the starting army formation is OK.
-- 
Dan Stephenson
http://web.mac.com/stepheda
Travel pages for Europe and the U.S.A. (and New Zealand too)
Re: Rome Total War: what do you want in a sequel?
#716323
Author: Sheldon England
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 18:30
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Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>
> One feature I've always wanted is to have the computer resolve the
> battles, but let me WATCH it do so.

Actually that would be a very good 'tutorial' of sorts for learning 
techniques.


> Watching the battles would be a lot more fun than a dry outcome
> summary. It might inspire me to fight a few of the battles myself,
> too.

Agreed.


   - Sheldon
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