🚀 go-pugleaf

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic pc games <pcgame...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Mar 2007, Doug Jacobs wrote:

> > All you've been doing here is preaching to the choir, and then going off 
> > on totally insane rants against Steam and other things.

> Valve and STEAM are the ones that gain the most with PIRACY
> Did you know just now in the Action group STEAM LOVERs are using the
> fact STALKER a high profile Action game being released this week is
> already being pirated and they are using that excuse to defend the
> game should be released via STEAM
> There is even one STEAM LOVER that gone even further by himself doing
> the actual piracy to help STEAM and Valve

Considering that Steam attempts to address the copy protection and piracy 
problem, why are you so against it?  Electronic distribution is just going 
to become more commonplace and while Steam may not be perfect, it's a darn 
sight better than anything you've done with your incoherent conspiracy-nut 
rants like the one above.

Games get pirated.  This is a fact.  Games get pirated even BEFORE they hit 
the store shelves OR, for that matter, your favorite system, Steam.  This 
is also a long time fact.

> The more the piracy the better for aggressive copy-protection systems
> like STEAM
> The more anarchy PIRACY provokes in PC Games the more Valve has the
> ability to present itself as the savior

Piracy doesn't cause anarchy.  There was piracy long before Steam came 
along.  And I've yet to actually read a COHERENT sentence from you as to 
why Steam is so horrible.  At the rate you're going, I fully expect to 
hear you say that Steam is actually FUNDING the pirates in an attempt to 
scare more and more developers into using Steam to protect their product!

Yes!  That's it!  That's why Steam is so evil, isn't it?!  I did it!  I 
cracked the code!  A winner is me!  Mwa-hahahhahahahaahaha!
  
> > again, preaching to the choir.  The vast majority of the folks here 
> > already acquire their games legally.  I also suspect that many of the 
> > folks here DO try to discourage folks from copying/pirating.

> Are you telling the majority in this group doesn't lend their games to
> friends which will then make illegal copies?

Lend - yes.

Make copies - no.

It just isn't worth their time or effort to pirate.  Mainly because they 
don't have huge amounts of time to play games anymore, so what few games 
they DO play, they pay for, or borrow from a friend.

> Do you yourself not lend games to friends?
> And if you lend do you have control over the copies that might be
> created without you knowing?

I lend to friends - people I trust.  They lend stuff to me.

> > But piracy isn't the only problem that PC gaming faces.  If you want 
> > proof, look at console gaming.  Piracy is even more rampant over there, 
> > yet the market continues to do fine.  So it's clear that piracy isn't the 

> My thread speaks about a particular developer, id Software
> id Software a long time PC developer has made the decision to switch
> to console development and the reason they gave was PC Piracy
> They specifically say Piracy in the PC is much worse than in consoles
> You say they are lying?

I say they aren't being wholly truthful.  Piracy on the PC IS a problem.  
However, saying that they've been "forced" to go multiplatform because of 
piracy is 100% BS and they know it.  They just don't want to say "PC 
gaming's market is shrinking, and we're being forced to consider other 
platforms in order to make more money."

The console market is many times larger than the PC market in terms of 
units sold, revenue per unit, and total revenue.  If you were in their 
position, wouldn't you also consider releasing onto consoles if it meant 
you could make more money?  Large professional game development costs are 
nearing what a "cheap" Hollywood movie costs.  Tell me with a straight 
face that a company spending $20-30 million on developing a game today can 
expect to make a profit by ONLY releasing for the PC.  Go on, I dare you.

Here's some quick math for you.  There are approximatly 37 MILLION 
Playstation 2 consoles in the US alone.  Unlike PCs, I guarantee you that 
every PS2 sold is being used for GAMES.  If you have a game that only 
appeals to 0.5% of the total gaming market, that still means you can 
expect to sell over 1.6 MILLION copies.  And that doesn't include rentals, 
used copies, or piracy.  Yes, piracy is a problem for the consoles as well 
- in fact I'd say it's a BIGGER problem there.  But again, if even a 
totally garbage console game can sell 1 million copies in the US alone, 
don't you think that's worth investing in?

> Well that doesn't change the fact they switched to consoles for their
> primary gaming platform

It's alla about the money.  I bet that Doom3 sold more copies on the 
consoles than it did on the PC, too.

> > I'm really surprised you haven't started evangelizing about what I feel is 
> > the REAL path for saving PC games - independent publishers.

> Valve is independent and its abusive
> I don't give a damn about independency if you use that independency to
> ABUSE and disrespect consumer rights
> Yes I don't like big monopolistic corporations like EA or Microsoft,
> but Valve even being small and independent has exactly the same ways,
> meaning greed, lust for power and monopoly and doing everything to get
> it including disrespecting customers and consumer rights

Independency?

How exactly is Valve - a developer - abusive?

And I wasn't even talking Valve.  I was talking more about the small indie 
developers who can't afford to distribute their games into the retail 
stores.

I also wouldn't call EA monopolistic.  There's plenty of competition for 
them in both the PC and console markets.  If anything, their overall image 
is diminishing due to their repetitive rehashing of last year's game, 
slapping a new version on it, and pricing it at $50 (Madden).  

I also don't understand your reasoning for making this a life-or-death 
struggle.  In the end, it's up to the consumers.  If the companies put out 
a good product, people will buy.  If the companies aren't making money 
from the PC market, perhaps it's their product they should be worried 
about and not (just) piracy?

> --
> Piracy is killing PC Games!
> Developers are abandoning the PC due to Piracy!
> Save PC Games! Stop Piracy!

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