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>could be the best game since HL2:

    I wish the devs all the success and moneyhats, but will let this one 
slip by until the fall and keep working on my backlog.

rms 

I'm cautiously interested.

>From what I can see I'm thinking DOOM 3 - System Shock - Fallout 4 ( 
Indoors)
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On Fri, 5 May 2017 16:34:15 -0600, "rms"
<rsqui...@MOOyossmanMOO.net> wrote:

>>could be the best game since HL2:
>
>    I wish the devs all the success and moneyhats, but will let this one 
>slip by until the fall and keep working on my backlog.

Yeah, this is definitely a back-burner for me. The huge glut of games
waiting in my library is definitely one reason, as is the price (I
just don't pay $60 for games anymore), but mostly it is because I
honestly don't care that much for Arkane Studio games. I can
/appreciate/ them for what they are - I've played most of their
titles:  Arx Fatalis, Dark Messiah, Dishonored and even games they've
assisted on like COD:World at War and Bioshock 2. But none of them
have been games that really thrilled me. The stories and settings have
been poor, and the gameplay felt too focused on the mechanical aspects
- "Oooh, lookit how we cans kicks an orc onto a grate of spikes!"
which was the overriding theme of Dark Messiah, for instance - too
often to the detriment of the game's immersion. There's obviously a
large group of fans who prefer games like this but I am not one of
them. 

So I'll wait until the game drops drastically in price, then play it
and marvel at their cleverness even as I yawn uninterestedly through
the adventure, shelve it and not ever play it again thereafter ;-)

On Sat, 06 May 2017 09:19:21 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson
<spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 5 May 2017 16:34:15 -0600, "rms"
><rsqui...@MOOyossmanMOO.net> wrote:
>
>>>could be the best game since HL2:
>>
>>    I wish the devs all the success and moneyhats, but will let this one 
>>slip by until the fall and keep working on my backlog.
>
>Yeah, this is definitely a back-burner for me. The huge glut of games
>waiting in my library is definitely one reason, as is the price (I
>just don't pay $60 for games anymore), but mostly it is because I
>honestly don't care that much for Arkane Studio games. I can
>/appreciate/ them for what they are - I've played most of their
>titles:  Arx Fatalis, Dark Messiah, Dishonored and even games they've
>assisted on like COD:World at War and Bioshock 2. But none of them
>have been games that really thrilled me. The stories and settings have
>been poor, and the gameplay felt too focused on the mechanical aspects
>- "Oooh, lookit how we cans kicks an orc onto a grate of spikes!"
>which was the overriding theme of Dark Messiah, 

That's one way, but I found killing via defense more interesting.  It
was more fun to bait the enemy and timing it so they lunged at me,
either impaling themselves or going bungee jumping without a cord off
the cliff behind me. lol.  More of a twitch / action game than what a
lot of people look for in a fantasy title, which I think might account
for the polarized opinions out there. The MP game was a lot of fun
while it lasted.

On Sat, 06 May 2017 11:38:00 -0400, Rin Stowleigh
<rstow...@nevrhadgmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 06 May 2017 09:19:21 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson
><spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 5 May 2017 16:34:15 -0600, "rms"
>><rsqui...@MOOyossmanMOO.net> wrote:

>> The stories and settings have
>>been poor, and the gameplay felt too focused on the mechanical aspects
>>- "Oooh, lookit how we cans kicks an orc onto a grate of spikes!"
>>which was the overriding theme of Dark Messiah, 

>That's one way, but I found killing via defense more interesting.  It
>was more fun to bait the enemy and timing it so they lunged at me,
>either impaling themselves or going bungee jumping without a cord off
>the cliff behind me. lol.  

I don't actually remember that happening, but any game where the enemy
AI is so bad it trips over its own feet and kills itself regularity is
not one I'd look on favorably. I know there are fans of "so bad its
good" games that get a kick out of that sort of thing (not that I'd
include "Dark Messiah" in that group) but I am not one of them. That
sort of AI behavior is just terribly immersion-breaking for me and if
it happened with any consistency I believe the developers would
consider it a bug, not a feature; even mechanically-focused as Arkane
Studios is, they do strive for a certain level of realism.

On Sun, 07 May 2017 09:19:18 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson
<spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 06 May 2017 11:38:00 -0400, Rin Stowleigh
><rstow...@nevrhadgmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 06 May 2017 09:19:21 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson
>><spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 5 May 2017 16:34:15 -0600, "rms"
>>><rsqui...@MOOyossmanMOO.net> wrote:
>
>>> The stories and settings have
>>>been poor, and the gameplay felt too focused on the mechanical aspects
>>>- "Oooh, lookit how we cans kicks an orc onto a grate of spikes!"
>>>which was the overriding theme of Dark Messiah, 
>
>>That's one way, but I found killing via defense more interesting.  It
>>was more fun to bait the enemy and timing it so they lunged at me,
>>either impaling themselves or going bungee jumping without a cord off
>>the cliff behind me. lol.  
>
>I don't actually remember that happening, but any game where the enemy
>AI is so bad it trips over its own feet and kills itself regularity is
>not one I'd look on favorably. I know there are fans of "so bad its
>good" games that get a kick out of that sort of thing (not that I'd
>include "Dark Messiah" in that group) but I am not one of them. That
>sort of AI behavior is just terribly immersion-breaking for me and if
>it happened with any consistency I believe the developers would
>consider it a bug, not a feature; even mechanically-focused as Arkane
>Studios is, they do strive for a certain level of realism.

Matter of preference I suppose, but I like when combat attempts to
take on some reflection of reality.  In combat sports, sometimes your
opponent does something brilliant, and other times they screw up
royally, including tripping over their own feet.  A guy I used to
train with once broke his own arm doing elbow drills on the bag!
(throwing muay thai elbows effectively / consistently is not as simple
as it looks on TV).  

One of the things I like about competitive multiplayer games is the
massive range of possibilities that unpredictably ride the spectrum
between brilliant and stupid.  You never know what a human opponent is
going to do, but on small team sizes in certain games you can begin to
observe patterns of particular players and create tactics around their
play style, something that is absent from most SP games.

I think the enemies in DMoMM SP mode were also prone to doing things
stupid and getting in fights with each other like the enemies in the
Doom series, if I recall correctly.  

In fact, lunging at me full speed while I'm standing at the edge of a
cliff (which can only end one of two ways, me dodging the lunge or
both of us going flying off the edge to our deaths) is not exactly an
intelligent act on behalf of the enemy AI, but that was part of the
fun of the game IMHO.