🚀 go-pugleaf

In <matuseDA...@netcom.com> mat...@netcom.com (Matuse) writes: 
>
>In article <3sl0sj$t...@CUBoulder.Colorado.EDU>
jord...@benji.Colorado.EDU (JORDAN  SPENSER AARON) writes:
>>>I agree, that OS2/WARP can kick the shit out of Win95.  I tell you
>>>this, there is a still a use for Win95, since OS2/WARP can only run
95% 
>>>of Windows programs. You will still need windows to run the other 5%
>>>and you can use the disks to wipe the shit off your asshole when you
>>>get done taking a shit.  Well unless you have the CD-ROM version,
then
>>>you have a good frizbee to though around the yard.
>>
>>Windows 95 kicks the shit out of OS/2.  And I prefer to wipe my ass
with 
>>OS/2 installation disks.
>


I have used OS/2 WARP in my computer class for a month and a-half.  And
it was a lot easer to use.  All most the same as Windows, but thing I
like the most of OS/2 was that it has true multitasking and it will not
lock up your system as much as Windows does.  

>Since you have admitted to never having SEEN os/2, please back up this

>claim that win is better.
>

You want me to back up my claim!!!  

Let all face it!  Win95 IS NOT out yet so who is the judge to say it is
better then OS/2 WARP.  Everyone is getting there claim from Magazines
not by using it.  I have heard of a Beta virsion of WIN95, but is it
the true Win95 Program!!!!  NO IT ISN'T!!!  So lets do the world a
favor and DROP THE ARUMENT that OS/2 is better the Win95 or the other
way around!!  When it comes out and you have tried it, not like that
lyer that says he did and didn't, then you can tell the world how
FUCKUP each one is compard to each other.

BIG BEAR 

big_...@ix.netcom.com (Big_Bear ) writes:

>I have heard of a Beta virsion of WIN95, but is it
>the true Win95 Program!!!!  NO IT ISN'T!!!  So lets do the world a
>favor and DROP THE ARUMENT that OS/2 is better the Win95 or the other
>way around!!  When it comes out and you have tried it, not like that
>lyer that says he did and didn't, then you can tell the world how
>FUCKUP each one is compard to each other.

Hmm. You're right. The so-called beta of Win'95 that we've all been
using isn't the real Win'95. It was actually created by the same bunch
bunch of German jokers who created the fake Amiga emulator. All it does 
is show PCX files of Win'95 screens -- it really isn't running any programs.
We've all just been too stupid to notice. I *knew* it couldn't be a real
Microsoft product -- it doesn't crash enough.

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[follow-up to comp.os.os2.advocacy, comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy]

bad...@phylo.life.uiuc.edu (Jonathan Badger) wrote:
>deh...@mirac.unm.edu (Dan Ehrig) writes:

>>Jonathan Badger (bad...@phylo.life.uiuc.edu) wrote:

>>: I am not pleased with this situation. But it is clear that IBM is no longer
>>: willing to seriously develop OS/2 if it refuses to add Win'95 support.

>>Ah.  I see confusion on your part.  IBM is willing to provide Win'95 
>>support.  MS will not allow them to do so without a lawsuit.

>Actually no lawsuit would be possible if IBM simply allowed Win'95 to
>run within OS/2, as no Microsoft code would be involved. But IBM isn't
>willing to do even this. It has nothing to do with lawsuits -- Lou has simply

As if MS won't do all they can to prevent IBM from doing that. 

Before OS/2 2.0 came out, MS stated publicly that it is
_impossible_ for IBM to make OS/2 run Windows.  Somehow IBM
managed that.

Soon after OS/2 v2.1 for Windows was released, we got this
Win3.11 "upgrade" from MS which just "happens" to break OS/2 for
Windows.  MS's patch (released months after Win3.11) just
"downgrade" your 3.11 back to 3.1.  IBM soon released a patch to
fix that without downgrading Windows.

After Warp was release last year, we got this Win32s 1.2
"upgrade" from MS which just "happens" to make Win32s 1.15
support in Warp outdated.

And even with Win95, if you install the preview on a OS/2 system
with Dual Boot, it just "happens" to break OS/2 completely
afterwards.

What makes you think the bug fixes MS planned to be release after
Win95 won't break OS/2's support if IBM made OS/2 run Win95?

>decided to put OS/2 on the back burner while concentrating on Notes, which
>is bad news for gamers, unless you find Notes entertaining.

This is ridiculous.  Notes needs an OS to run, and "OS/2 is the
best platform for Notes" is the message from IBM.  Saying IBM
will concentrate on Notes and forget OS/2 is like saying "MS
allied with Softbank, they will concentrate on console games and
forget Win95".

______
Oliver Chung
> My opinions are my own <                      >  Happy Warp user <
PGP Key fingerprint: 3E 86 59 AD 08 35 BE 54 DF 63 B9 F8 F7 8B 10 3B

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In article <3sl0sj$t...@cuboulder.colorado.edu>,
JORDAN  SPENSER AARON <jord...@benji.Colorado.EDU> wrote:

>Windows 95 kicks the shit out of OS/2.  And I prefer to wipe my ass with 
>OS/2 installation disks.

I would rather use toliet paper. 
-- 
Lumbering Ox  bpa...@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca| I thought Rice Crispies  
B.A. Economics 1991  Can't write or spell   | were made from the souls
B.A. History 1994    Can't do math          | of the damned..Made from rice,
MBA Finance 1996     Can't think            | yeah right!

	The bottom line is, I'm writing this post and downloading two (that's right
two) files right now under OS/2. I don't have to be fanatical when talking to Windows
users, I just tell them what I can do under Warp.

chuck@netropolis.net@mercury.netropolis.net wrote:

>	The bottom line is, I'm writing this post and downloading two (that's right
>two) files right now under OS/2. I don't have to be fanatical when talking to Windows
>users, I just tell them what I can do under Warp.

Doing about same now, under Windows 3.11  

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bad...@phylo.life.uiuc.edu (Jonathan Badger) wrote:
>khc...@pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu (Oliver Chung) writes:

>>Your "Most major" games developers are less than 10 as far as I
>>have seen.  Origin, Sierra, SH, and couple others are the only
>>ones I have heard with actual products for Win95 in progress. 
>>And of those, I usually hear about only 1 or 2 products are for
>>Win95.

>Well, you pretty much hit them all (well, Maxis should be in there
>too). But aren't most decent games from these companies? And aren't

Not quite.  How "major" is iD before DOOM?  How "major" is 3D
Realms before (or even after) Terminal Velocity?  How "major" is
Origin before U4?  How "major" is Sierra before KQ?

Yet even with their (then) small company size, they released
great games like DOOM, U4, TV, KQ.

Big companies can make big games, but nothing prevent small ones
from making _good_ games.  And then there are many companies like
Microprose which are sticking with DOS.

>the products that are going to "Win95 only" the flagship products of
>these companies? Wing Commander IV and Falcon 4 are pretty much "must
>buy" products if you are fans of space or flight simulators. It would
>be different if all they were doing were producing cheap crud like
>Windows Entertainment Packs that could easily (and wisely) be ignored.

This one I agree, but nothing prevents them to port it to OS/2
(or Mac) later.  IBM games that later appears for Mac or vice
versa are not uncommon.  And more so, they are still doing DOS
games.  DOS is _far_ from dead as a gaming platform.

OTOH, there are companies like SDS which are producing their
flagship product for OS/2 only.  (Just to balance the viewpoint)

What we are seeing now is a diversifying of game platform, I
doubt if we will see a dominant platform by mid/end of 96.  Game
companies may go either way or multi-platform, but the simple
fact game companies are competitors of each other means it's
better for them all to spread among platforms than to rush
headlong to a single platform.

>>If, and by the time, Win95 games become the norm, you will be
>>told to upgrade to NT.

>Yes. But so what? This argument is pretty pointless. It's like saying
>there's no point in buying a Pentium because in two years you'll have
>to buy a Sexium.  At least I know there *will be* an upgrade path from
>Win 95. I'm not convinced that Warp won't be the last version of OS/2
>produced.

This is funny.  With the track record of IBM, which supported
OS/2 since 1.0 all the way to Warp now and Warp PPC soon, plus
the recent pledges of support, you are still not convinced that
OS/2 won't be dropped.

OTOH, with the track record of MS dropping OS/2 1.2, and probably
stop releasing new DOS, and last year even once said they will
stop supporting Win3.1 after shipping Win95, you are convinced
Win95 is the way to go.

Just by understand (partially) what role OS/2 played in IBM's
"solutions" to corporate clients like banks, telephone companies,
etc.  I am firmly convinced that OS/2 will be supported for years
to come.

>>If you know nothing about commercial games for OS/2, say so.  The
>>"one native, 2 planned" are from a _single_ game company (SDS)
>>only.  

>Yes, I'm aware that SDS is the company in question. But are there ANY
>other companies producing commercial OS/2 games? No. So what's your point?

Wrong.  Prognosis (sp?) the makers of Lemmings are doing (done?)
a OS/2 version of Lemmings.  CCS, another game company, is the
one doing Avarice, to be published thru SDS.  Another (small)
game company just did a survey in c.o.os2.games and decided to do
an OS/2 only games.

OS/2 games support is growing, just that it's not visible to in
games groups dominated by DOS users.

Even those companies who are sticking to DOS are getting
concerned about OS/2 compatibility with their games.  e.g.
Terminal Velocity's readme requested OS/2 gamers who got the game
running in OS/2 to tell them how.  (I got TV to run in OS/2 and
send a email to them)

>I'm no fan of Microsoft -- I'm a happy Linux user -- but this doesn't
>change the fact that there just doesn't seem to be a future, at least for
>gamers, in OS/2.

We'll see.

______
Oliver Chung
> My opinions are my own <                      >  Happy Warp user <
PGP Key fingerprint: 3E 86 59 AD 08 35 BE 54 DF 63 B9 F8 F7 8B 10 3B

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>Since you have admitted to never having SEEN os/2, please back up this 
>claim that win is better.
>
Had it on my system for 4 months.

Doom needed a patch, Quicken needed a patch. It seemed that every second 
program I put on needed a patch. OS2 does not run Windows programs better 
than windows. It is also very slow, especially at booting up. I would love 
for some competition to exist against an arrogant Microsoft but OS2 just 
doesn't measure up. Without native apps an operating system is nothing.

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sv...@oslonett.no (Sven Anders Robbestad) wrote:
>>bad...@phylo.life.uiuc.edu (Jonathan Badger) wrote:
[you wrongly attribute the quote to someone else, it from me]

>>Since OS/2 has more apps and games available, my statement is
>>more true than yours.

>Yes, but then OS/2 have been out on the market for quite some time. Game 
>developers haven't been queueing up, have they?

Windows 3.x also have been out on the market for quite some time,
game developers haven't been queueing up, have they?

IBM just simply haven't marketed OS/2 as a game platform before
Warp, SDS has said that some IBMers have even taken a hostile
view of GalCiv in the early stages too. ("What?!  A GAME for our
mission critical platform?!")

Things are changing now as IBM is releasing the Game Developer's
Kit and enhancing the DIVE interface (adding fullscreen
capability).  They have even silently released a joystick driver
for Warp too.

IBM is make OS/2 a better game platform, just that they do so
without the fanfare like MS did.

>Oh, and Win95 games do exist now! I have a game called Gnell or something (sw) and
>it will only run in W95 (but then I didn't download the W3.11 version).

I have also heard about HOVER here, which is supposed to show off
how great Win95's game was, but turns out to be quite slow.

But does Win95 have any commercial games now?  OS/2 have quite a
bunch of shareware/freeware games too, but bringing them up
proves nothing.

______
Oliver Chung
> My opinions are my own <                      >  Happy Warp user <
PGP Key fingerprint: 3E 86 59 AD 08 35 BE 54 DF 63 B9 F8 F7 8B 10 3B

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chuck@netropolis.net@mercury.netropolis.net wrote:
: 	The bottom line is, I'm writing this post and downloading two (that's right
: two) files right now under OS/2. I don't have to be fanatical when talking to Windows
: users, I just tell them what I can do under Warp.

That doesn't impress me.  I do the same thing with win3.11

chuck@netropolis.net@mercury.netropolis.net wrote:

>	The bottom line is, I'm writing this post and downloading two (that's right
>two) files right now under OS/2. I don't have to be fanatical when talking to Windows
>users, I just tell them what I can do under Warp.

If I understand you right, I can do that now with Windows 3.1 and my
PPP account. Tell me there's no slowdown to your system and I'll be
impressed.

-----------------------------------------
Tola Dalton
Maintainer of the Dark Forces Homepage
http://www.armory.com/~tdalton/DarkForces
E-mail: tda...@sensemedia.net

>Windows 95 kicks the shit out of OS/2.  And I prefer to wipe my ass with 
>OS/2 installation disks.

JORDAN SPENSER AARON seems to have some sort of anal fixation.  Could be the
reason he spends so much time posting his infantile messages, no women wants
to get near him!  :-)
	Jay

chuck@netropolis.net@mercury.netropolis.net wrote:

>	The bottom line is, I'm writing this post and downloading two (that's right
>two) files right now under OS/2. I don't have to be fanatical when talking to Windows
>users, I just tell them what I can do under Warp.

What, via FTP?  I frequently can work in a word-processor, be getting
off-line mail, downloading two things from FTP, connected with
Netscape on Windows for Workgroups and my 8-meg DX2-66.  Typing a
message and FTP'ing are hardly demonstrative of extreme multitasking.
I've been taking something at 14.4 from a BBS, working in Quark
Express, and even unpacked 10 megs of .ZIP's from a  DOS window and
have not lost a character in Windows.  

The bottom line is, I can multitask.  It works.  OS/2 is more robust
and powerfull, but Windows certainly can do a decent enough job for
menial tasks like the ones described above.

Tola Dalton (tda...@sensemedia.net) wrote:
: chuck@netropolis.net@mercury.netropolis.net wrote:

: >	The bottom line is, I'm writing this post and downloading two (that's right
: >two) files right now under OS/2. I don't have to be fanatical when talking to Windows
: >users, I just tell them what I can do under Warp.

: If I understand you right, I can do that now with Windows 3.1 and my
: PPP account. Tell me there's no slowdown to your system and I'll be
: impressed.

: -----------------------------------------
: Tola Dalton
: Maintainer of the Dark Forces Homepage
: http://www.armory.com/~tdalton/DarkForces
: E-mail: tda...@sensemedia.net


None at all when I tried mine. 


Try this downloading from a network connection, and at the same time, 
download from your modem under Windows.  And go ahead and play a DOS game.

Rgds,

Chris

-- 
Rei Hino/Sailor Mars 	Ami Mizuno/Sailor Mercury 	Aiko Minako/Sailor
Venus		Makoto Kino/Sailor Jupiter 	Haruka Tenoh/Sailor
Uranus		Michiru Kaioh/Sailor Neptune 	Setsuna Meioh/Sailor Pluto 
Usagi Tsukino/Sailor Moon	   *****cro...@kuentos.guam.net*****

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[follow-ups to adovcacy groups, I don't see how this will be
going back to games]

rcb...@u.cc.utah.edu (cam burnham) wrote:
[delete]
>: IBM has the complete right to use the Win API until the end of the time.
>: Their rights to the Windows source code expired in Sept. of 92? (maybe 93,
>: I forget).  If IBM wanted to clone the Win32 API, they could.  In fact,
>: the Developers Extensions for OS/2 is actually just a bunch of the most
>: commonly used APIs from Win32 made native to OS/2, making porting simpler.
>: They could do the whole set if they wanted to, but they want native OS/2
>: software, not an OS that people use to run Windows (as is too often
>: the case now).

>You better check up on your facts son. IBM does not have any legal rights 
>what so ever to to WIN32 API's or Win 95. That little fact spells 

I guess you better check up on your facts first.  The specs of
Win32 API is known for a long time, IBM don't need any source
codes from MS to put them into OS/2 _if they choose to do so_.

Ever heard of "reverse engineering"?  The specs are enough for
IBM to reproduce the entire Win32 API on OS/2.  The long delays
of Win95 gave them plenty of time to do so.

>deathbells for OS/2. OS/2 sales only picked up once they incorporated 
>Windows into the program and that's a fact. Imagine all the wonderful new 
>software coming out for Win95 and OS/2 will be left floating in use to be 

OS/2 sales picked up when it got decent DOS/Win compatibility so
users can run their _existing_ apps.  How many potential OS/2
users are runnig Win32 apps which OS/2 can't run?

BTW, OS/2 users don't have to IMAGINE 32bit multithreading apps,
we have already been using them for a long time now.

>Win 3.1 land.We keep hearing about all this port over nonsense, the only 
>problem is all the companies seem not interested in doing so! They can only 

I also keep hearing about these wonderful Win32 apps, the only
problem is all these apps don't exist yet!

>clone Win 31 and down which explains why they've been trying unsuccessfully 
>to reverse engineer Win32 API for some time now. You people ought to try 
>reality for a change. 

You might have some spies planted in IBM which nobody else have,
how do you know they are unsuccessful in reverse engineering the
Win32 API?

The fact that IBM can identify which Win32 calls are similar to
OS/2 API and are planning to extend the OS/2 API to ease the
porting of Win32 apps show they are actually quite successful in
reverse engineering it.

______
Oliver Chung
> My opinions are my own <                      >  Happy Warp user <
PGP Key fingerprint: 3E 86 59 AD 08 35 BE 54 DF 63 B9 F8 F7 8B 10 3B

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