🚀 go-pugleaf

On Wed, 21 Oct 2015 10:54:38 -0400, Rin Stowleigh
<rstow...@nevrhadgmail.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 21 Oct 2015 09:33:43 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson
><spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 12:42:16 -0400, Rin Stowleigh
>><rstow...@nevrhadgmail.com> wrote:
>>>On Sun, 18 Oct 2015 12:25:12 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson
>>><spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Personally, I didn't really start having
>>>>fun with the game until Area 51, and that's like 90% into the game...

>>>To me, that's a sign of a bad game.  The whole point of games is
>>>entertainment, and if the first 90% is not entertaining then it's not
>>>worth my time to grind through just to see the last 10% that is.

>>No, it's a sign that I was probably playing a game not suited to me. 

>That's what I meant in that context, bad to the player.  It just
>seemed like you were being easy on the game (i.e. calling it a game
>that took effort to appreciate for example) relative to all the other
>games you pan -- just wanted to let you know you don't have to hold
>back just for DE or feel obligated to sugar coat things, tell us how
>you really feel ;)

Ultimately, I found Deus Ex an appreciable experience* :) 

Fun for me isn't the end-all/be-all of a game. Admittedly, it is
usually the most important part, but it is not the only consideration.
I admire technical skill, artistry and innovation. If the game has
those features in abundance, I consider it a good game (although it
usually takes more effort on my part to get to the end :). 

Deus Ex is an extremely slow burner; you really need to get into the
game to appreciate the detail of its world and the interesting
convolutions of its plot. Its (for its time) novel gameplay
architecture - allowing multiple gameplay styles - isn't immediately
evident either, and I am sure many gamers FPS'd their way through half
the games before realizing they had the alternative of talking or
sneaking their way through all the obstacles. But once all those
pieces start fitting together, it is a mesmerizingly clever piece of
work in all its aspects and - for all its flaws - well worth its
designation as one of the "classic PC games". 

>I don't believe a game should be dependent on the plot to be enjoyable
>at all.  Games are to be played, which implies the gameplay itself
>should be enjoyable first.  Plots can be found in books and movies,
>and therefore are not a gameplay component.  They are more like icing
>on the cake -- if the story is well executed (production values and
>writing) and finds its audience (those who subjectively enjoy the
>plot), then the value added can be high.  But, if a game is relying on
>the plot as the sole reason the player should get involved with it,
>it's on shaky ground.  

Yes, this is an area we've agreed to disagree on**. ;-)

But I have always maintained there are two types of gamers: those
interested in the mechanics, and those in the experience (I tend to
call them PacMan gamers versus Kings Quest gamers because those are
two early games which strongly differentiated between the two modes).
On the one hand are people like Rin, who are focused on the gameplay:
how the AI works, the balance of the weapons, how the level design
effects the second-to-second flow of the action. They also tend to be
more into online and competitive gaming. On the other hand, I trend
more towards the latter camp. Story and setting are crucial; I want an
"immersive experience" with highly detailed worlds. That's not to say
the former group are completely disinterested in what a game looks
like or what the story is about, or that I don't care if the AI is
brain-dead and the gameplay is repetitive but our focus is different.

If I swallow my bias, I would be forced to admit that neither is more
"right" than the other; it is just that different people look for
different things out of their games***. Deus Ex was definitely a game
for the latter crowd; its multiple styles of gameplay made it a
jack-of-all-trades (e.g., master of none) when compared to more
straightforward shooters/sneakers, and just bashing your way through
without taking the time to read all the newspapers/notes/books, talk
to all the characters, and explore every nook and cranny definitely
made for a more hollow experience.



* yeah, I know, "appreciable experience" sounds like that sort of
garbage used by people who bore their employees in long pointless
meetings with lots of overly-complicated Powerpoint presentations.
Unfortunately, I deal with the sort every day and sometimes it rubs
off on me ;-)

** well, /I/ have agreed to disagree anyway. I'm not sure Rin has ever
quite cozened on to the idea that different people like different
sorts of games and that it is okay for them to do so ;-)

*** in my heart, though, I know gameplay-fixated players are wrong; a
game is only truly enjoyable if it has a rich story, interesting
characters, gorgeous graphics and a lavishly created world ;-)