🚀 go-pugleaf

Hi

Just would like to add my voice to this discussion;

I'm no programmer, but as a die-hard gamer into all kinds of different 
games I can definitely say that Origin games >>run<< or 'play' slower 
than others. If this means unstreamlined code, or shitty programming, 
or whatever, then so be it. I'm not saying what it is, I don't know 
what it is, thats 4 you techies to decide.

As a simple example, take the Cybermage demo and the Need 4 Speed demo.
Both SVGA, both texture mapped to high heaven. If anything, need 4 speed 
with max detail is MUCH more of a CPU hog then Cybermage, it has a 
driving model, 16bit sound, a HELLUVA lot more screen updating to do etc. 
etc. etc.


Cybermage aint nothing special to me, just SVGA, still tat isometric 
flipbook stuff. A kinda SVGA bioforge

Guess which one flies? NEED 4 speed with max detail 640x480 SVGA is 
SOOOOOOOOO fast on my Pentium-100 w/16MBs of RAM (I'd say in this mode I 
get about 18fps at least) the screen almost explodes - this's with a SLOW 
DOS card (ATI GPT). There's probably one helluva graphics engine behind 
that game.


Cybermage - kinda sluggish, not slow, but not fast either.
Now if this isn't 'bad programming' what is it?


Remember this all is from a layman's point of view so no flames please.



M



 
Jay B Biggerstaff (JBB...@utarlg.uta.edu) 
wrote: : Chuck ...E's In Love... McMath (McMa...@mediasoft.net) wrote:
: : In article <43fd37$6...@regiss.optera.com>, got...@regiss.optera.com
: : (ABHOTH DAIMONIZOMAI) wrote:

: : > Is it just me, or are Origin programmers just really lazy and stupid?

: : Well *here's* a good reasonable argument.  Did you recently graduate from
: : charm school?  If you ever hope to be taken seriously, I would suggest you
: : don't start out threads like this.  I doubt whether the programmers at
: : Origin are either lazy or stupid.  You I don't know about (I doubt you're
: : lazy because you did such a good job typing in all this stuff, and
: : cross-posted it so well).

: Obviously, this guy is an Origin programmer. I think he took offense.  Chill
: out dude. Your reply just got crossposted as well.


: : > The reason I say this is because they hype their games as being
: : > oh-so-high-tech and state-of-the-art-push-the-envelope stuff, but yet
: : > their games really aren't all that much more spectacular than some of the
: : > stuff already out. 

: : Well, now this *is* a valid issue to raise.  Maybe the question should be,
: : "are Origin's games worth upgrading your PC for?"

: Not really.  THe only Origin game I didn't lose interest in was a few of the
: Ultimas and WC Series.  The rest were a waste of time and money.


: : > The only difference, of course, is that Origin's games
: : > are generally slow and require the current top-of-the-line PC to run at a
: : > reasonable speed. Origin likes to put big hefty system requirements on
: : > their so-called state-of-the-art games, and I guess that makes them feel
: : > special or something... that you need a Pentium to run their games, even
: : > though they are EXTREMELY over-rated. Case in point, Cybermage. Huge 9 meg
: : > demo. The game is pitifully slow on a Pentium 90 at high res with all
: : > detail on. And what's so special about it? Graphics are nothing exciting,
: : > and everything is still 90 degrees. Oh, but it's SVGA, so I guess that
: : > makes it cool. So it requires a Pentium with 16 megs for SVGA. What a
: : > joke! I can run Terminal Velocity on the same system (which IMO is more
: : > fun with better grafx) and it's a lot faster, this is with only 8 megs of
: : > RAM too. Why is Cybermage so slow? Hmm... maybe that the programmers
: : > suck?? 

: : In the real world this kind of infantile reasoning would get you
: : anywhere.  However, on the 'net it makes you just "one of the boyz."  This
: : is just puerile crap.

: I agree with this guy in the sense that programmers aren't going to too much
: trouble in streamlining their code these days.  It's pitiful when games run
: choppy in SVGA mode on a Pentium 90 or 100.  By the way, even though TV is a
: smooth running shooter, it's just another boring game...especially the modem
: play.  It's another 4 hour gameplay and throwaway.  As far as the "puerile
: crap" comment goes, obviously it doesn't stop you from replying to it.  Your
: comment only shows how desperate your attempt is at insult.



: : > They are too damn lazy to write some clean and efficient code that
: : > will give us nice pretty grafx AND good frame rates? This isn't something
: : > new with Origin BTW. Do we remember Strike Commander and Pacific Strike? 
: : > I do! They were terrible, and SLOW, and not very impressive at all. This
: : > seems to be a continuing trend with Origin. Write games that require the
: : > most expensive PC on the market, thereby undercutting a huge mid-range to
: : > low-end market, and the damn games SUCK and aren't that great to begin
: : > with. Why is this? Origin must think "well gee, it runs on a Pentium 133
: : > so lets just leave it alone" instead of tweaking it and making sure that
: : > it runs just as well on the slower systems. I guess Origin is just afraid
: : > of hard work, they just want the money, that's all.

: : Yep, that's it - Origin wants the money so bad they release stuff that
: : doesn't run on most of the machines out there.  Hey, wait a minute - if
: : they *really* wanted the money wouldn't they "tweak" the code so more
: : people would buy it?  After all, by aiming at the high-end machine they
: : shut out part [most] of their market?

: Origin has been doing this since Ultima 6 came out. The people that they aim
: for are the ones that own the newest computers and the one's that are in the
: market for a new computer.  As for tweaking the code more, I doubt they're
: capable.


: : > Now I see Origin
: : > hyping this new "AH64D Apache Longbow" sim. Supposedly, as rumor has it,
: : > this will require a Pentium 133 (or P6) for full detail. Wow, that's neat.
: : > I've seen GIFs. It doesn't look that damn great. 

: : If you can infer how good a game is from rumors and GIFs, then how will
: : Battlecruiser 3000AD be?  I'm curious.


: All I know is that USNF ran like crap on a DX2/66 except in 320 X 200 mode
: (yuck!).  I can imagine what the next in the series will be like.



: : > I've seen Origin people
: : > poking fun at I-Magic's "Apache" sim for being unrealistic and outdated.
: : > HA! I have the sim and it's excellent. Best game I have played in a LONG
: : > time. Gee Origin, maybe before you start talking sh*t about someone elses
: : > product, you should MAKE SURE YOUR PRODUCT HAS BEEN RELEASED FIRST. 

: : So maybe people at Origin have an attitude problem.  Unlike you.

: It looks like we ALL have attitude problems. The difference is that some of us
: have valid reasons behind it instead of using insults as a meaningless
: attempt of a counterpoint.  


: : > Until
: : > then, shut up. And what was the last really good game Origin has released
: : > in the past 2-3 years? WC3? Lets compare the duds Origin has released to
: : > the good games they have released:  Good games: WC3, Ultima 7 part 2
: : > Crappy games: Strike Commander, Pacific Strike, Wings of Glory, Ultima 8,
: : > BioForge, Cybermage, System Shock (some might argue with me about this,
: : > but hey, the game was boring, slow, and the plot sucked)... etc etc
: : > That's not a very good record. Looks like Origin is batting around .111 
: : > which, even if you hate baseball, is a really bad average. Good luck in 
: : > the future, Origin. I think you'll need it... but probably not, since 
: : > you've got a whole legion of slobbering Origin groupies who will buy any 
: : > piece of trash that you release just because it has your logo on it.
: : > 

: A LOT of companies are batting .111 and some lower (Sierra). Look at all these
: games that have been pushed back in their release dates: DM2, Lords Of
: Midnight, Phantasmagoria, Bioforge, etc etc.  They all turned out to be crap
: for one reason or another.  It's a waste of the companies' time and our time.
: I won't say our money because I've taken all these games back & got a refund. 
: The problem is that this seems to be the standard these days. Nothing is worth
: keeping.  Consumers should be upset.



: : Well, what makes a 'good game' by your definition?  Some of the 'duds' you
: : mention tried to go in new directions - BioForge, for one.  Is the fact
: : that it didn't do a good job (IMHO) a strike against them?  Even U8 was an
: : attempt to do something different, with all the animation and emphasis on
: : action vs rpg elements.  I didn't have any problems with it technically,
: : although I believe most, if not all, slobbering Avatar groupies hated it.

: Obviously, they need to stop doing something different.  They're not good
: at it.


: : And to put System Shock on the 'losers' list is truly dumb.  Technically
: : it's a great game.  And I liked the plot and pace just fine, thanks.

: : I'm not an Origin apologist nor a slobbering groupie, but someone who buys
: : and plays their games now and then.  And some of the arguments you put
: : forth have validity (like "what technical features does Origin put in
: : games that forces them to the high-end machines?"). Maybe it's Origin's
: : marketing department's idea of 'snob appeal?"   But to say that their
: : programmers are stupid, fat, lazy, etc, does nothing but pour flames on
: : the fire.

: Or sense in their heads.


: : If more people feel like you, that Origin's games are NOT worth it, then
: : feel free to exercise your right to not purchase their games.  Given
: : enough time they will either change their direction or go out of
: : business.  That's how it works.  That's how it oughta work.

: Is this your solution? Don't purchase their games?  Sounds simple.  Actually,
: purchasing the game to check it out & then taking it back for a refund is the
: same as not purchasing it.  The only difference is that we have more
: information about how good or bad it really is.At least when people post that
: a game is crap, they've had first hand experience.  It's the people who keep
: the crap that's causing them to make more.



: : chuck

: Thanks Chuck, but don't take all these postings so personal, unless you are
: somewhat associated with Origin then maybe you can help do something to
: alleviate the problem.