🚀 go-pugleaf

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:54:32 GMT, Sean <taser8@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I know the newsgroup's sensitive to spam, even if it's WC-related stuff, 
>but I've got some old things listed that some of the real WC fans might 
>be interested, rare stuff that's a little harder to come by.
>
>An copy of the Premiere edition of WCIII in the film can - includes the 
>very-rare WCIII development team patch, a "making of" video, and the 
>entire game with "behind the scenes" cd and Origin Soundtrack Volume III. 
>There may be one or two elements missing - I need to verify what all was 
>in it originally before I can say if I've got it all or not.

IIRC, the canned WC3 had:
* WC3 CDs and manuals (duh!)
* Ship Identification poster (I don't know if this came standard with
the regular game)
* a WC3 novel "Fleet Action"
* a calender
* the "Making of WC3" video tape
* a "Behind the Scenes" CD-ROM
* patch
* T-shirt
* a WC3 poster
* various bits of advertising (e.g., WC3 strategy guide, Origin
product lineup, registration card)
* a film cannister to hold everything

>I know the newsgroup's sensitive to spam, even if it's WC-related stuff, 
>but I've got some old things listed that some of the real WC fans might 
>be interested, rare stuff that's a little harder to come by.
>

What the heck, there is so little traffic on the newsgroup.

Answer some questions?

Do you think of Prophecy and Secret Ops as different games or as Secret Ops as
an add-on for Prophecy?

Which of the plots for the post-Prophecy game did you like best?

What can you tell us about the parts of the plot that were written out but not
shot for Prophecy?

Thanks!

BTW, you might as well put some links to your ebay auctions here too.  I think
they are topical, and they can flame me and not you if they disagree.

I deserve it more.


Stephen
http://adrr.com/hero/diablo.htm
http://adrr.com/story/ 

 
> What the heck, there is so little traffic on the newsgroup.
> 
> Answer some questions?

No prob!

> Do you think of Prophecy and Secret Ops as different games or as
> Secret Ops as an add-on for Prophecy?

I guess I'd have to say it's really more of an add-on; there weren't a 
whole lot of new resources we created for SO - a couple of ship as 
opposed to the dozens for Prophecy, no cinematics, etc. So from our 
perspective it was a case of utilizing material we'd already created 
instead of creating a whole new project.

> Which of the plots for the post-Prophecy game did you like best?

I'll be perfectly honest: after we finished making Prophecy I was so 
completely burned out I didn't play the game, and didn't play SO either. 
In fact I'm not sure I could tell you WHAT the plots for the post-
Prophecy games were! Don't get me wrong, I love the WC universe and games 
- I certainly bled for them enough! - but after Super Wing Commander, 
WCIV, and WCP (which was like the Bataan Death March of game projects) I 
just couldn't muster the interest to keep up.

> What can you tell us about the parts of the plot that were written out
> but not shot for Prophecy?

Not too much, since we had writers who were doing all the drafts. I can't 
think of any major elements that got dropped, though I'm sure there were 
some...I am still in contact with some of the writers though and could 
ask!

I WILL say that we noted with some amusement when, halfway through 
production of the game, the ST: Voyager episode aired with the new alien 
race from another dimension...the insect-like ones that flew 
biomechanical ships that could join together to form larger weapons...we 
couldn't help but note a similarity, and of course since we would release 
later, figured everyone would accuse US of ripping THEM off.

> Thanks!
> 
> BTW, you might as well put some links to your ebay auctions here too. 
> I think they are topical, and they can flame me and not you if they
> disagree. 
> 
> I deserve it more.

Cool! And just last night I listed the 35mm film trailer for WCIV - you 
know, for all of you who have 35mm projectors at home and wanna watch it.

Prophecy Squadron stickers:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3379289076

WC Collectible Cards:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3170212710 

Kilrathi Saga:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3072272095 

Origin Audio CD:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3072273806 

WCIV theatrical trailer:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3379713719 

Enjoy, and I am certainly willing to respond to other questions in 
penance for spamming...

Oh, and if anyone's interested in some screenchots, hi-res pics of a few 
ships, and a few designs sketches for a few ships, I've got some stuff on 
my website at http://home.earthlink.net/~taser8/workstuff/Workbase.htm

Sean

"Sean Murphy" <taser8@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94745526F496Btaser8hotmailcom@207.217.77.204...

<snip>

> > Do you think of Prophecy and Secret Ops as different games or as
> > Secret Ops as an add-on for Prophecy?
>
> I guess I'd have to say it's really more of an add-on; there weren't a
> whole lot of new resources we created for SO - a couple of ship as
> opposed to the dozens for Prophecy, no cinematics, etc. So from our
> perspective it was a case of utilizing material we'd already created
> instead of creating a whole new project.

;-)
;-)
;-)
;-)
;-)
;-)

Love,

Ed

"Ineedmoney" <mail@atmycomputer.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bumo8f$re3$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Sean Murphy" <taser8@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns94745526F496Btaser8hotmailcom@207.217.77.204...
>
> <snip>
>
> > > Do you think of Prophecy and Secret Ops as different games or as
> > > Secret Ops as an add-on for Prophecy?
> >
> > I guess I'd have to say it's really more of an add-on; there weren't a
> > whole lot of new resources we created for SO - a couple of ship as
> > opposed to the dozens for Prophecy, no cinematics, etc. So from our
> > perspective it was a case of utilizing material we'd already created
> > instead of creating a whole new project.
>
> ;-)
> ;-)
> ;-)
> ;-)
> ;-)
> ;-)
>
> Love,
>
> Ed

*tumbleweed*

Ed

Ineedmoney wrote:

>>>>Do you think of Prophecy and Secret Ops as different games or as
>>>>Secret Ops as an add-on for Prophecy?
>>>
>>>I guess I'd have to say it's really more of an add-on; there weren't a
>>>whole lot of new resources we created for SO - a couple of ship as
>>>opposed to the dozens for Prophecy, no cinematics, etc. So from our
>>>perspective it was a case of utilizing material we'd already created
>>>instead of creating a whole new project.
>>
>>;-)
>>;-)
>>;-)
>>;-)
>>;-)
>>;-)
>>
>>Love,
>>
>>Ed
> 
> 
> *tumbleweed*

Probably because your attempts at "I told you so" are based on one man's 
admitted opinion. Sean's points are reasoning that's already been 
covered. Merely means there's one more person who sees the game as you do.


-- 

*** Remove the DELETE from my address to reply ***

======================================================
  Kevin Scholl                http://www.ksscholl.com/
  kscholl@comcast.DELETE.net
------------------------------------------------------
  Information Architecture, Web Design and Development
------------------------------------------------------
  We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of
  the dreams...
======================================================

In article <aYadnYD5L6nB5IvdRVn-jQ@comcast.com>,
Kevin Scholl  <kscholl@comcast.DELETE.net> wrote:
>Ineedmoney wrote:
>
>>>>>Do you think of Prophecy and Secret Ops as different games or as
>>>>>Secret Ops as an add-on for Prophecy?
>>>>
>>>>I guess I'd have to say it's really more of an add-on; there weren't a
>>>>whole lot of new resources we created for SO - a couple of ship as
>>>>opposed to the dozens for Prophecy, no cinematics, etc. So from our
>>>>perspective it was a case of utilizing material we'd already created
>>>>instead of creating a whole new project.
>>>
>>>;-)
>>>;-)
>>>;-)
>>>;-)
>>>;-)
>>>;-)
>>>
>>>Love,
>>>
>>>Ed
>> 
>> 
>> *tumbleweed*
>
>Probably because your attempts at "I told you so" are based on one man's 
>admitted opinion. Sean's points are reasoning that's already been 
>covered. Merely means there's one more person who sees the game as you do.

I see.. Now the word of one of the authors isn't canonical either.. You guys
are a hoot :-)

Mattias

> I see.. Now the word of one of the authors isn't canonical either..
> You guys are a hoot :-)
> 
Well, I would point out that I am not in fact "one of the authors", I just 
did graphics. I am quite certain that the designers - who wrote all new 
material for the game - would see it in a very different light, and they 
are much more the "authors" of the game than I.

In article <3a742094ebd33e873c8550f96726fdba@news.teranews.com>,
Sean  <taser8@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I see.. Now the word of one of the authors isn't canonical either..
>> You guys are a hoot :-)
>> 
>Well, I would point out that I am not in fact "one of the authors", I just 
>did graphics. 

Ok, maybe you aren't the one who wrote the story or such, but... You were
involved with the project. Which is more than most people here could say, I
would think.

>I am quite certain that the designers - who wrote all new material for the
>game - would see it in a very different light, and they are much more the
>"authors" of the game than I.

Full points for humility :-)

I'm just amused that this topic has apparently caused such a split amongst
the few remaining followers of this game..

Mattias

Mattias Hembruch wrote:

> I'm just amused that this topic has apparently caused such a split amongst
> the few remaining followers of this game..

I think you'd be quite surprised at the number of people who continue to 
follow the WC universe. There are several fan-made projects which 
continue to build on the series, both in terms of story (such as PBMs) 
and gameplay (conversions and add-ons).

I daresay that if any new official product were to come out in the 
future, it would be quite successful.

-- 

*** Remove the DELETE from my address to reply ***

======================================================
  Kevin Scholl                http://www.ksscholl.com/
  kscholl@comcast.DELETE.net
------------------------------------------------------
  Information Architecture, Web Design and Development
------------------------------------------------------
  We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of
  the dreams...
======================================================

Mattias Hembruch wrote:


>>>>>>Do you think of Prophecy and Secret Ops as different games or as
>>>>>>Secret Ops as an add-on for Prophecy?
>>>>>
>>>>>I guess I'd have to say it's really more of an add-on; there weren't a
>>>>>whole lot of new resources we created for SO - a couple of ship as
>>>>>opposed to the dozens for Prophecy, no cinematics, etc. So from our
>>>>>perspective it was a case of utilizing material we'd already created
>>>>>instead of creating a whole new project.
>>>>
>>>>;-)
>>>>;-)
>>>>;-)
>>>>;-)
>>>>;-)
>>>>;-)
>>>
>>>*tumbleweed*
>>
>>Probably because your attempts at "I told you so" are based on one man's 
>>admitted opinion. Sean's points are reasoning that's already been 
>>covered. Merely means there's one more person who sees the game as you do.
> 
> 
> I see.. Now the word of one of the authors isn't canonical either.. You guys
> are a hoot :-)

It's nothing against Sean, Mattias. Being a graphic designer myself, I 
can (and do) appreciate the work he's done. However, his comment is 
clearly an opinion ("I guess..."), and his reasoning is but one of the 
several aspects which differentiate an add-on from a stand-alone game. 
That's not to say that I don't respect his opinion. But I continue to 
believe that there are more aspects which logically support WCSO being a 
stand-alone game than support it being merely an add-on.

-- 

*** Remove the DELETE from my address to reply ***

======================================================
  Kevin Scholl                http://www.ksscholl.com/
  kscholl@comcast.DELETE.net
------------------------------------------------------
  Information Architecture, Web Design and Development
------------------------------------------------------
  We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of
  the dreams...
======================================================

> I'm just amused that this topic has apparently caused such a split
> amongst the few remaining followers of this game..
> 

I wasn't aware that there even WAS a split, or that it was a point of 
discussion!

I'll be honest, I don't think that there's a right answer on this one. 
Certainly many assets were reused, but on the other hand there were new 
assets, and the storyline and missions were all new. Of course, there was 
the whole "download the game" deal, which was unique also.

I would certainly say that reusing assets does not automatically qualify 
something as an add-on; we reused many of the meshes from Wing III for WC 
IV, just adding new, more detailed textures, but I don't think anyone would 
claim that Wing IV was an add-on to Wing III.

In the end, I think it's a no-win argument; I don't really think it's 
either. I prefer to think of it as a scaled-down followup to Prophecy.

But that's just my $.02...

"Kevin Scholl" <kscholl@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:aYadnYD5L6nB5IvdRVn-jQ@comcast.com...
> Ineedmoney wrote:
>
> >>>>Do you think of Prophecy and Secret Ops as different games or as
> >>>>Secret Ops as an add-on for Prophecy?
> >>>
> >>>I guess I'd have to say it's really more of an add-on; there weren't a
> >>>whole lot of new resources we created for SO - a couple of ship as
> >>>opposed to the dozens for Prophecy, no cinematics, etc. So from our
> >>>perspective it was a case of utilizing material we'd already created
> >>>instead of creating a whole new project.
> >>
> >>;-)
> >>;-)
> >>;-)
> >>;-)
> >>;-)
> >>;-)
> >>
> >>Love,
> >>
> >>Ed
> >
> >
> > *tumbleweed*
>
> Probably because your attempts at "I told you so" are based on one man's
> admitted opinion. Sean's points are reasoning that's already been
> covered. Merely means there's one more person who sees the game as you do.

One man who apparently worked on the games in question

Ed

"Sean" <taser8@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f911db3892856185111f615d9b753f1c@news.teranews.com...
>
> > I'm just amused that this topic has apparently caused such a split
> > amongst the few remaining followers of this game..
> >
>
> I wasn't aware that there even WAS a split, or that it was a point of
> discussion!
>
> I'll be honest, I don't think that there's a right answer on this one.
> Certainly many assets were reused, but on the other hand there were new
> assets, and the storyline and missions were all new. Of course, there was
> the whole "download the game" deal, which was unique also.

A download for half-life Blue Shift wouldnt have made it more a sequel to
Half Life either. :)

Ed

> I would certainly say that reusing assets does not automatically qualify
> something as an add-on; we reused many of the meshes from Wing III for WC
> IV, just adding new, more detailed textures, but I don't think anyone
would
> claim that Wing IV was an add-on to Wing III.
>
> In the end, I think it's a no-win argument; I don't really think it's
> either. I prefer to think of it as a scaled-down followup to Prophecy.
>
> But that's just my $.02...

"Kevin Scholl" <kscholl@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:wM6dneEk3sSOW4vdRVn-sA@comcast.com...
> Mattias Hembruch wrote:
>
>
> >>>>>>Do you think of Prophecy and Secret Ops as different games or as
> >>>>>>Secret Ops as an add-on for Prophecy?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I guess I'd have to say it's really more of an add-on; there weren't
a
> >>>>>whole lot of new resources we created for SO - a couple of ship as
> >>>>>opposed to the dozens for Prophecy, no cinematics, etc. So from our
> >>>>>perspective it was a case of utilizing material we'd already created
> >>>>>instead of creating a whole new project.
> >>>>
> >>>>;-)
> >>>>;-)
> >>>>;-)
> >>>>;-)
> >>>>;-)
> >>>>;-)
> >>>
> >>>*tumbleweed*
> >>
> >>Probably because your attempts at "I told you so" are based on one man's
> >>admitted opinion. Sean's points are reasoning that's already been
> >>covered. Merely means there's one more person who sees the game as you
do.
> >
> >
> > I see.. Now the word of one of the authors isn't canonical either.. You
guys
> > are a hoot :-)
>
> It's nothing against Sean, Mattias. Being a graphic designer myself, I
> can (and do) appreciate the work he's done. However, his comment is
> clearly an opinion ("I guess..."), and his reasoning is but one of the
> several aspects which differentiate an add-on from a stand-alone game.
> That's not to say that I don't respect his opinion. But I continue to
> believe that there are more aspects which logically support WCSO being a
> stand-alone game than support it being merely an add-on.

Is Half Life Blue shift a sequel or an addon? By your reasoning its a
sequel, yet there is a Half Life 2 out...

Ed

Ineedmoney wrote:
> "Kevin Scholl" <kscholl@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:wM6dneEk3sSOW4vdRVn-sA@comcast.com...
> 
>>Mattias Hembruch wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>Do you think of Prophecy and Secret Ops as different games or as
>>>>>>>>Secret Ops as an add-on for Prophecy?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I guess I'd have to say it's really more of an add-on; there weren't
> 
> a
> 
>>>>>>>whole lot of new resources we created for SO - a couple of ship as
>>>>>>>opposed to the dozens for Prophecy, no cinematics, etc. So from our
>>>>>>>perspective it was a case of utilizing material we'd already created
>>>>>>>instead of creating a whole new project.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>;-)
>>>>>>;-)
>>>>>>;-)
>>>>>>;-)
>>>>>>;-)
>>>>>>;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>*tumbleweed*
>>>>
>>>>Probably because your attempts at "I told you so" are based on one man's
>>>>admitted opinion. Sean's points are reasoning that's already been
>>>>covered. Merely means there's one more person who sees the game as you
> 
> do.
> 
>>>
>>>I see.. Now the word of one of the authors isn't canonical either.. You
> 
> guys
> 
>>>are a hoot :-)
>>
>>It's nothing against Sean, Mattias. Being a graphic designer myself, I
>>can (and do) appreciate the work he's done. However, his comment is
>>clearly an opinion ("I guess..."), and his reasoning is but one of the
>>several aspects which differentiate an add-on from a stand-alone game.
>>That's not to say that I don't respect his opinion. But I continue to
>>believe that there are more aspects which logically support WCSO being a
>>stand-alone game than support it being merely an add-on.
> 
> 
> Is Half Life Blue shift a sequel or an addon? By your reasoning its a
> sequel, yet there is a Half Life 2 out...

I don't know enough about HL Blue Shift to make an educated 
determination. However, I DO know enough about WCSO to see that there 
are more aspects which point to it being a standalone than being an 
add-on. That's the simple fact of the matter.

I'm done discussing this with you, Ed. I look at it from a technical 
viewpoint, while you base your conclusion on how the game makes you 
feel. Neither is completely right or wrong, and neither of us is going 
to change the other's mind without significant external evidence.

-- 

*** Remove the DELETE from my address to reply ***

======================================================
  Kevin Scholl                http://www.ksscholl.com/
  kscholl@comcast.DELETE.net
------------------------------------------------------
  Information Architecture, Web Design and Development
------------------------------------------------------
  We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of
  the dreams...
======================================================

"Kevin Scholl" <kscholl@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:f-ednWV2S8bOmoLdRVn-jg@comcast.com...
> Ineedmoney wrote:

> > Is Half Life Blue shift a sequel or an addon? By your reasoning its a
> > sequel, yet there is a Half Life 2 out...
>
> I don't know enough about HL Blue Shift to make an educated
> determination. However, I DO know enough about WCSO to see that there
> are more aspects which point to it being a standalone than being an
> add-on. That's the simple fact of the matter.
>
> I'm done discussing this with you, Ed. I look at it from a technical
> viewpoint, while you base your conclusion on how the game makes you
> feel. Neither is completely right or wrong, and neither of us is going
> to change the other's mind without significant external evidence.

Well the fact is that HL Blue Shift was called *on the box* a "stand alone"
and it didnt need the original game. Yet it was of course still really just
an addon.

Origin clearly just made an addon (Secret Ops), but called it something else
just like Valve did with Blue Shift.

Ed