🚀 go-pugleaf

"Kevin Scholl" <kscholl@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Tt6dndwl8OcAhEyiRVn-tw@comcast.com...

<snip>

> > Strange, it looked basically the same to me. But its not just the
graphics,
> > like I said. WC4 FELT like a whole new sequel even though they had
clearly
> > used a cannibalized WC3 engine.
>
> No, you're missing the point. By "requires the base engine from a parent
> game", I mean the parent game must be installed so that the add-on can
> utilize its files in order to run. WCSO is self-contained.

Good point, but you see the first thought I had when they announced SO and I
got the details (although I must not have read them as well as I first
though) was that it was a WCP addon, they had decided to make availible to
everyone and deliver it in episodes, and try and make it make sence to
people who hadent played the originals. Thats feeling didnt stop either when
I played it. I even thought their was something wrong with my copy for a
brief period when I didnt see any videos, I had gotten so used to it!

> >>>>As for being able to argue with it, yes someone can.  Like with all
> >>>>subjective opinions (regardless of my opinion regarding the logic
> >>>>behind it) though, doing so is an exercise in mental masturbation, at
> >>>>best.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Sure, its subjective. But thats (see above) my reasons for thinking
what
> >
> > I
> >
> >>>do.
> >>
> >>How about the following changes from WCP, besides the aforementioned
> >>tweaked graphical engine:
> >>
> >>- episodic delivery
> >
> >
> > so? Cut up WCProphecy in the same way and how would that be different?
>
> To an extent, yes. You could say the same about ANY game...hindsight is
> crystal clear. But WCSO was one of, if not THE, first to deliver a game
> this way. It required different planning and software development cycle
> processes.

I still dont see how thats relevant at all. If it was a full game I wouldnt
expect it to be done this way.

> >>- story narrated via news bursts, annoucements, and character e-mails
> >>instead of video clips
> >
> >
> > They added some of that, which was welcomed, but I still think it was a
> > cheap way of not having to spend any money on video. In my mind, it was
a a
> > cheap way to add on to the Prophecy story.
>
> SOME of that? This method was how the entire narrative story was driven.
>
> And I wonder why you keep bringing up the money angle. Money was not a
> direct issue with WCSO. True, WCIV and WCP didn't rake in tremendous
> amounts of income as WCIII had done, but both were profitable
> nonetheless. Origin as a company was in good shape. The methodologies of
> WCSO's gameplay, story, and delivery were not based on finances (or lack
> thereof).

Well if they had the money I think they made a terrible decision in removing
so much of the content that I enjoyed in WC3,4 and Prophecy. I thought the
primary reason they did what they did was BECAUSE they had so little money
after WCP . Sure, make game-play better! But why remove the other parts like
cool CGI cut scenes and full motion video? Oh yes thats right, its a
"different kind of game"... I don't want that excuse, it doesn't cut it for
me. I happened to enjoy the CGI cut scenes and filming real actors , and I
think it really added something to the game, then they took it away?! It
seemed like a step back to me, justifiable ONLY if it was a kind of weird
addon or that they had no money to do it. I liked the video stuff beuase it
made me feel like I was playing in a movie. Even in Wc2 they had talking
cartoon heads which was clearly a cheap way (understandable at the time) of
not being able to not filming real actors but STILL I felt better because of
it.

Theres no right or wrong in this argument, Ive said all along I thought it
felt like an addon to me. I know it was marketed as a standalone, but that
doesnt change how I felt when I played it.

> >>- different and more detailed storyline (yes, a continuation of Casey's
> >>story, but an entirely different arc than that of WCP)
> >
> >
> > Irrelevent.
>
> WHAT? Incredibly relevant, perhaps the most relevant point after not
> needing a parent game's files.

Irrelevent to me at least, they could have used the same story in a
different way and I would have not thought it felt like an addon. Its the
way they used it. Thats why its irrelevent to me.

> >>- several new ships, including your base of operations
> >
> >
> > Irrelevant.
>
>  From a general standpoint, yes, irrelevant. From a historic WC
> viewpoint, hardly insignificant. Each successive sequel in the WC
> universe has seen the primary character flying from a new base ship,
> while the add-ons have been aboard that of the vessel from the previous
> main game (due to needing the parent game's files, go figure).

Im not disputing that it was a standalone, so you dont need to prove that to
me. All I am saying that FOR ME I thought it FELT like I was playing an
addon. If they brought out a new game that had the Midway as the main "base
of operations" but didnt take away from it the things that I had listed
earlier I am certian I wouldnt have just considered it an addon.

> >>and the primary reason why WCSO was not merely an add-on to WCP --
> >>because Origin said so.
> >
> >
> > *shrugs*... ok, but like I said I think it "FEELS" like an addon "TO
ME".
> > And it would make sence that the makers would say it is a 'Stand Alone
Full
> > Game' just to make it sound better.
>
> That would be false advertising.

Not really. If it was a full game why didnt I see it being sold in its own
box? It had Prophecy sold WITH SO! Which made sence, as I considered it a
weird addon to the 'fuller' WCP. Why did they deliver it in episodes in the
first place? Ahh yes, it was a "different kind of game', right?...  Well to
me a large multiplayer online experience is a "different kind of game"! But
as it was the episodic delivery for SO just appeared, at least to me, to be
a way of not having to release it properly. After all what happenes when you
join all these episodes together? It just becomes another game! How is it
then different to if you had bought it in a store like you bought Wc4 and
WcP?

> > Im NOT telling you it that it was an addon, just that it FELT like a
addon
> > TO ME.
>
> Which is where the subjective aspect comes into play. However, you
> haven't really provided much clearcut, factual basis to support your
> view. Everything has been based on your "feelings"

All I was providing was the reasons which leads me to view SO as feeling
like an addon, TOO ME. I dont find my view entirly lacking in factual basis,
although I do appreciate your argument (or was that someone else?) that I
havent played every single Wing Commander game.

>and a mistaken idea
> that Origin didn't have any money.

I find their decisions very strange then. I see no good reason why they
would not include the things I listed above, if they had the money. "But its
a different kind of game" isnt a good reason for me considering what they
gave us.

>  If the game feels like an add-on to
> you, that's fine, but it can't really be justified from a technical
> and/or definitive standpoint.

*shrugs*.

Ed