🚀 go-pugleaf

Den 27-03-2014 18:57, Cryptoengineer skrev:

> What else? Portable mailboxes? Big cooking bags? What sells?

Besides sky golems and other mounts; good question.  Portable mailboxes 
are soulbound so thats a no-go. :)  Well...  I paid 14k for one of the 
choppers recently.
Have you considered the dragonling trinket and cogwheels introduced back 
in 5.1 or such?  On my low-pop realm only a single player are somehow 
serious about selling those on AH.  But he sells the items at odd and 
low prices imho.  Maybe they arent selling that well, so...

-- 
Peter T.

<https://elite.frontier.co.uk/>

On 28/03/2014 4:27 AM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
> With not-to-much-trouble, I've levelled my gnome lock to 615
> in Engineering. I've got the Goblin Glider (handy!), and the
> Synapse Springs.
>
> What next? How can I monetize this?
>
> Unlike Alchemy, nearly all the products of engineering are
> only usable by engineers. There's thus little market, since
> anyone who can use them, can make their own.
>
> About the only things that seem marketable are some of the
> pets (Pierre, Rascal-Bot), and the Sky Golem. Those all
> require massive amounts of mats obtained on cooldowns, and
> I'd probably be able to make one only every two weeks
> (fortunately, my main is a maxed alchemist, and can do the
> transmutes). They go for 4-5 figure prices in my AH, and I
> expect the markets kind of thin.
>
> What else? Portable mailboxes? Big cooking bags? What sells?

Not much this late, not much ever, nothing like other crafts
   at least there are some moderately useful things this expansion
   and at least they don't have high failure rates any more
As you said it was easy to level now because nobody is doing or using 
engineering much   so it is relatively cheap to do.

gathering goggles, nobody is gathering, they are in the low hundreds
bling is always popular for the occasional (free) gifts
anvils, not much since level up engineers make a lot
gnomish knives, a few a week

maybe something must have for raids but haven't looked there and it is 
probably saturated
the occasional scope

Most things are bespoke ' I want this, nobody is online in my guild 
anymore, I have the mats, heres a small tip'
  The thing is anything remotely sellable has a lot of very hungry 
engineers on it.
For engineering for profit.vs.effort you can make an item and wait wait 
wait but for total profit gathering and selling the mats is best or just 
stockpiling mats and hawking services.
  How to cook a galah ( or sell engineering) : put it in a pot with a 
rock, boil for 3 days, then throw the galah away and eat the rock :-)

  Alchemy , yeah, flasks , potions, always some transmute you can do.
For the transmute cooldown do you mean living steel? you can get a 
research recipe that uses 3 spirits no cooldown.

On 28/03/2014 4:27 AM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
> With not-to-much-trouble, I've levelled my gnome lock to 615
> in Engineering. I've got the Goblin Glider (handy!), and the
> Synapse Springs.
>
> What next? How can I monetize this?
>
> Unlike Alchemy, nearly all the products of engineering are
> only usable by engineers. There's thus little market, since
> anyone who can use them, can make their own.
>
> About the only things that seem marketable are some of the
> pets (Pierre, Rascal-Bot), and the Sky Golem. Those all
> require massive amounts of mats obtained on cooldowns, and
> I'd probably be able to make one only every two weeks
> (fortunately, my main is a maxed alchemist, and can do the
> transmutes). They go for 4-5 figure prices in my AH, and I
> expect the markets kind of thin.

  I forgot the cogwheel trinket, fit that with appropriate cogwheels and 
they can sell , not often or for a lot, but sometimes. I recall there is 
a cog vendor but fitted out for tank and dps sell better.
Better, not well. I guess they probably sold well way back when for a while.

  For the alchemist, give your miner/herb some engineer gathering 
goggles ( buying them was cheaper on my server) get the pick and the 
gathering speed item off the yulong advance mob.
  The pick is boa the gathering item is BOP and chance drop so good luck.

  Then spend an hour with 2-3 nodes always on your map, transmute ghost 
iron->trillium on no cooldown until you have most transmutes.

  To make engineering even more profitable , stop trying to use it.
  Do alchemy.

  You could always rent out as a mercenary while gathering, people still 
do alts and guild are slow, a 87-ish rare loot right now is useful for 
those.  It depends on population, there are always skulls on my map.
  cash in hand can make it almost worth the time if they don't muck 
around, and pay, some do, some rat, some expect you to hold their hand 
and want to be bestest friends for life.
  annoying, but then, cash, but painful, but cash

As someone said on trade 'for the Horde'
'thats wrong    slave soldiers=The Whored' :-)

On 28/03/2014 7:28 AM, Peter T. wrote:
> Den 27-03-2014 18:57, Cryptoengineer skrev:

Funny the stuff that goes up and is 'only useable by' which means the 
target market can already make them anyway.

> Have you considered the dragonling trinket and cogwheels introduced back
> in 5.1 or such?
  They aren't exactly top end or must have.
  First people have to be aware they even exist , feel they fill a gap, 
then look for them at the appropriate time and be at a throwaway price.

  I had some ready for alts, along with appropriate 87-ish gear. They 
blazed past the levels easily and forgot to get them out of their banks. 
They sold only slowly for very little.
  I think most ended up in the guild bank, so giveaways.

  Same thing for greens drops, people have to feel they need them right 
now and have to be on the AH for them. Repeated AH submits at low prices 
really cut the margin down.

> On my low-pop realm only a single player are somehow
> serious about selling those on AH.  But he sells the items at odd and
> low prices imho.  Maybe they arent selling that well, so...
  Bare ones without cogs, most people don't even know what to do with 
them unless they have an engineer. Those people would only buy if they 
are near cost.
  Fitted with cogs and obviously useable sell a -tiny- bit better. But 
hardly a Market, just a flea market.

On 28/03/2014 4:27 AM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
> With not-to-much-trouble, I've levelled my gnome lock to 615
> in Engineering. I've got the Goblin Glider (handy!), and the
> Synapse Springs.
>
> What next? How can I monetize this?
>
> Unlike Alchemy, nearly all the products of engineering are
> only usable by engineers. There's thus little market, since
> anyone who can use them, can make their own.

  Most engineering has been directed towards situational use in raiding.

| || ||| ||||| || | <|||||||||||||||||||||> wrote in news:5334a5e4$0$49605
$c3e8da3$fdf4...@news.astraweb.com:

> On 28/03/2014 4:27 AM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>> With not-to-much-trouble, I've levelled my gnome lock to 615
>> in Engineering. I've got the Goblin Glider (handy!), and the
>> Synapse Springs.
>>
>> What next? How can I monetize this?
>>
>> Unlike Alchemy, nearly all the products of engineering are
>> only usable by engineers. There's thus little market, since
>> anyone who can use them, can make their own.
> 
>   Most engineering has been directed towards situational use in raiding.
> 

Could you give some examples? Some of the tinkers may be usable, but I
suspect I haven't recognized a lot of the possibilities.

pt

On 28/03/2014 12:31 PM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
> | || ||| ||||| || | <|||||||||||||||||||||> wrote in news:5334a5e4$0$49605
> $c3e8da3$fdf4...@news.astraweb.com:
>
>> On 28/03/2014 4:27 AM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
>>> With not-to-much-trouble, I've levelled my gnome lock to 615
>>> in Engineering. I've got the Goblin Glider (handy!), and the
>>> Synapse Springs.
>>>
>>> What next? How can I monetize this?
>>>
>>> Unlike Alchemy, nearly all the products of engineering are
>>> only usable by engineers. There's thus little market, since
>>> anyone who can use them, can make their own.
>>
>>    Most engineering has been directed towards situational use in raiding.
>>
>
> Could you give some examples? Some of the tinkers may be usable, but I
> suspect I haven't recognized a lot of the possibilities.

  Not really, I didn't get much beyond ah and alt levels this go round 
so I don't know the current state of play
  Class raid websites should have some pointer and if eng. is any real use.
https://www.google.com.au/#q=wow+engineer+raid+benefits

  In general that has been all the engineer extras were useful for.
  A bomb useful in this situation, fall damage in that one, but usually 
not anything game changing.
  The glider and boosts may be useful for raids or pvp but usually they 
are short term with long cooldown. I always put fall mitigation on, but 
I rarely hit the button fast enough anyway.
They may even out with other profs, barring failures, but usually they 
have to be managed.

I prefer passives over cooldowns since I mostly miss or waste them and 
hoping for a proc that could fail is a bit fraught.

Here is one from a way back.
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=55016/nitro-boosts#comments
note where they nerfed -when- it failed from causing 120% of health loss 
down to 80%.
However boost failure and a warrior charge used to do interesting things 
to the terrain, like avoid it if you wanted to look at things from a 
different perspective.

  Eng. does usually also have some gathering enhancements that while not 
directly profitable can improve the mats income.

  It and blacksmiths are probably the profs that most benefit from
simply selling mats rather than trying to make anything or rely on their 
crafts.

   Imagine if:
   Alchemy - health potion, restores 250,000 health, chance it will take 
200,000 health.
   Enchanting - increases spellpower by 500, chance to stun character 
for 5 seconds.
   Jewelcrafting - gem of doubt, increased dodge by 500, may on occasion 
drop all threat.
   Resurrection : spell: chance to knockback caster and do 200,000 damage.

http://www.darklegacycomics.com/111.html

Den 27-03-2014 23:27, | || ||| ||||| || | skrev:

>   Most engineering has been directed towards situational use in raiding.

True.  Jeeves/repair bot.

"Oh.  Forgot to repair before I joined this raid.  Anybody with a repair 
bot???"

...

-- 
Peter T.

<https://elite.frontier.co.uk/>

On 28/03/2014 4:55 PM, Peter T. wrote:
> Den 27-03-2014 23:27, | || ||| ||||| || | skrev:
>
>>   Most engineering has been directed towards situational use in raiding.
>
> True.  Jeeves/repair bot.
>
> "Oh.  Forgot to repair before I joined this raid.  Anybody with a repair
> bot???"

And tomes for respec. Also useful for engineer gear swaps from bank.
But one hour (??) cooldown.

The devs do try for balance, everything is rock-paper scissors, but they 
always seem to be having an off day by the time the get around to the 
end of the list, engineering, the thing they just can't bring themselves 
to care much about :-)

I am just sour grapes and trauma shock about wow engineering, my first 
char was a human male engineer warrior miner. In a virtual world where 
you can be anything you imagine I found I had zero imagination :-)
It isn't like you can even apply anything to decrease the obvious 
failure rate.
So once that was at max level I decided to let my imagination run wild.
Human male blacksmith miner, deathknight, see, really thinking outside 
the box.

I wasn't thinking balance and complementary professions that early on.

Den 28-03-2014 08:06, | || ||| ||||| || | skrev:

> And tomes for respec. Also useful for engineer gear swaps from bank.
> But one hour (??) cooldown.

What tomes? ^^  im an engineering noob. :)

> The devs do try for balance, everything is rock-paper scissors, but they
> always seem to be having an off day by the time the get around to the
> end of the list, engineering, the thing they just can't bring themselves
> to care much about :-)

I guess Bliz has regretted Engineering as a profession since day 1 
despite it fits perfectly in the lore of the gnomes.  I've read the 
profession got an overhaul in BC so it actually became usable.  But 
seriously.  Besides a few mounts for AH, Moll-E, Jeeves and other odd 
items there are no demands for this profession.  At least not as it is now.

Its kinda the same with alchemy.  You have your daily CDs for living 
steel, you can make 4 different raid flasks, heal/mana/rejuv/jade 
serpent pots + the extended buff and thats it.  All the other pots and 
elixirs are so-what and only used for leveling.  I've also wondered why 
alchemists has this CD as it doesnt have much to do with alchemy at all.

Imho.  If Engineering should become interesting again Blizzard should 
move the daily CDs from alchemy to engineering.  Enchanting mats could 
be split up in basic mats and advanced mats for special enchanting where 
advanced mats can be made by engineers only etc..  This will fit 
perfectly into the thoughts of engineering.  Also it will make 
engineering more versatile.
But such move will also make a huge impact to many professions.  It will 
be aligned over time as more peeps will level engineering though.

-- 
Peter T.

<https://elite.frontier.co.uk/>

Den 28-03-2014 08:24, Peter T. skrev:

> Its kinda the same with alchemy.  You have your daily CDs for living
> steel, you can make 4 different raid flasks, heal/mana/rejuv/jade
> serpent pots + the extended buff and thats it.

I forgot to mention the luck pots.  But the only usable luck pot is the 
Cata version if you need to farm Cata mats in Deepholm.  The MoP version 
is completely useless.  I have tested it a few times on the islands west 
of Townlong Steppes where you can farm big groups of mobs when youre in 
ToT or SoO gear.  After spending 3 lotuses on 3 luck pots (1 hour buff) 
the result is just disappointing.  A little extra windwool cloth, ore 
and herbs, a few greenies and thats it.  Basically.

-- 
Peter T.

<https://elite.frontier.co.uk/>

On 28/03/2014 5:54 PM, Peter T. wrote:
> Den 28-03-2014 08:06, | || ||| ||||| || | skrev:
>
>> And tomes for respec. Also useful for engineer gear swaps from bank.
>> But one hour (??) cooldown.
>
> What tomes? ^^  im an engineering noob. :)
nothing to do with engineering just the vendor part
http://www.wowhead.com/item=79249/tome-of-the-clear-mind
   if people happen to be out and need to respec a bit for the 
particular dance they are going to do.

It also gives engineers access to their bank.

I tried the luck pots but as you said not much result, the need to 
pushpushpush to get some hoped for benefit outweighed any payoff I 
found. Maybe some big RNG hit , but then you can always get world drops 
anyway so who knows if it would have come around anyway..
  When expecting or just casually hanging around waiting on a callout 
one way to guarantee it happening is to pop some expensive pot or start 
some 10 minute encounter. Get in just enough to die on afk, reality taps 
you on the shoulder.


>
>> The devs do try for balance, everything is rock-paper scissors, but they
>> always seem to be having an off day by the time the get around to the
>> end of the list, engineering, the thing they just can't bring themselves
>> to care much about :-)
>
> I guess Bliz has regretted Engineering as a profession since day 1
> despite it fits perfectly in the lore of the gnomes.  I've read the
> profession got an overhaul in BC so it actually became usable.  But
> seriously.  Besides a few mounts for AH, Moll-E, Jeeves and other odd
> items there are no demands for this profession.  At least not as it is now.
>
> Its kinda the same with alchemy.  You have your daily CDs for living
> steel, you can make 4 different raid flasks, heal/mana/rejuv/jade
> serpent pots + the extended buff and thats it.  All the other pots and
> elixirs are so-what and only used for leveling.  I've also wondered why
> alchemists has this CD as it doesnt have much to do with alchemy at all.

   Nooooo, say it isn't so I just got alchemy
   Actually it seems a lot more entertaining :-)
   Yeah the top end stuff is pretty much it as far as selling goes, but 
I tend to stick with mats and ah. Interruptable things.

> Imho.  If Engineering should become interesting again Blizzard should
> move the daily CDs from alchemy to engineering.  Enchanting mats could
> be split up in basic mats and advanced mats for special enchanting where
> advanced mats can be made by engineers only etc..  This will fit
> perfectly into the thoughts of engineering.  Also it will make
> engineering more versatile.
> But such move will also make a huge impact to many professions.  It will
> be aligned over time as more peeps will level engineering though.
  They will do whatever they decide , what I would find appealing counts 
very little to the psychologists watching the daily and weekly use 
stats. I wonder if they count confused afk while looking up wowhead?

  I suspect a profession squish , maybe a bit more interdependence to 
encourge multiple prof alts. Things that simplify, maybe not a good 
think but less maintenance.
  I think the complexity and the long road of useless stuff turns people 
off, the question is how to make what you did before seem useful instead 
of a now useless stepping stone.
  I can guess but if I knew I would be doing it instead of talking :-)

Den 28-03-2014 11:44, | || ||| ||||| || | skrev:

>>> And tomes for respec. Also useful for engineer gear swaps from bank.
>>> But one hour (??) cooldown.
>>
>> What tomes? ^^  im an engineering noob. :)
> nothing to do with engineering just the vendor part
> http://www.wowhead.com/item=79249/tome-of-the-clear-mind
>    if people happen to be out and need to respec a bit for the
> particular dance they are going to do.

The tomes are for talent and glyph swaps only.  Not respec.

-- 
Peter T.

<https://elite.frontier.co.uk/>

On 28/03/2014 10:01 PM, Peter T. wrote:
> Den 28-03-2014 11:44, | || ||| ||||| || | skrev:
>
>>>> And tomes for respec. Also useful for engineer gear swaps from bank.
>>>> But one hour (??) cooldown.
>>>
>>> What tomes? ^^  im an engineering noob. :)
>> nothing to do with engineering just the vendor part
>> http://www.wowhead.com/item=79249/tome-of-the-clear-mind
>>    if people happen to be out and need to respec a bit for the
>> particular dance they are going to do.
>
> The tomes are for talent and glyph swaps only.  Not respec.
>

sorry to confuse you by using inappropriate terminology

Den 28-03-2014 14:07, | || ||| ||||| || | skrev:
> On 28/03/2014 10:01 PM, Peter T. wrote:
>> Den 28-03-2014 11:44, | || ||| ||||| || | skrev:
>>
>>>>> And tomes for respec. Also useful for engineer gear swaps from bank.
>>>>> But one hour (??) cooldown.
>>>>
>>>> What tomes? ^^  im an engineering noob. :)
>>> nothing to do with engineering just the vendor part
>>> http://www.wowhead.com/item=79249/tome-of-the-clear-mind
>>>    if people happen to be out and need to respec a bit for the
>>> particular dance they are going to do.
>>
>> The tomes are for talent and glyph swaps only.  Not respec.
>>
>
> sorry to confuse you by using inappropriate terminology

tsk tsk.. ;)

-- 
Peter T.

<https://elite.frontier.co.uk/>

On Thu, 27 Mar 2014 12:57:41 -0500, Cryptoengineer
<pete...@gmail.com> wrote:

>With not-to-much-trouble, I've levelled my gnome lock to 615 
>in Engineering. I've got the Goblin Glider (handy!), and the 
>Synapse Springs.
>
>What next? How can I monetize this?
>
>Unlike Alchemy, nearly all the products of engineering are
>only usable by engineers. There's thus little market, since
>anyone who can use them, can make their own.
>
>About the only things that seem marketable are some of the
>pets (Pierre, Rascal-Bot), and the Sky Golem. Those all
>require massive amounts of mats obtained on cooldowns, and
>I'd probably be able to make one only every two weeks
>(fortunately, my main is a maxed alchemist, and can do the
>transmutes). They go for 4-5 figure prices in my AH, and I
>expect the markets kind of thin.
>
>What else? Portable mailboxes? Big cooking bags? What sells?

Don't think anyone's yet mentioned scopes, there's one which goes for
a few hundred g on my server at least... but chances are every other
engineer is trying to sell it too!

Catriona R <catrion...@totalise.co.uk> wrote in news:bplg3hFl8gcU1
@mid.individual.net:

> 
> On Thu, 27 Mar 2014 12:57:41 -0500, Cryptoengineer
> <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>With not-to-much-trouble, I've levelled my gnome lock to 615 
>>in Engineering. I've got the Goblin Glider (handy!), and the 
>>Synapse Springs.
>>
>>What next? How can I monetize this?
>>
>>Unlike Alchemy, nearly all the products of engineering are
>>only usable by engineers. There's thus little market, since
>>anyone who can use them, can make their own.
>>
>>About the only things that seem marketable are some of the
>>pets (Pierre, Rascal-Bot), and the Sky Golem. Those all
>>require massive amounts of mats obtained on cooldowns, and
>>I'd probably be able to make one only every two weeks
>>(fortunately, my main is a maxed alchemist, and can do the
>>transmutes). They go for 4-5 figure prices in my AH, and I
>>expect the markets kind of thin.
>>
>>What else? Portable mailboxes? Big cooking bags? What sells?
> 
> Don't think anyone's yet mentioned scopes, there's one which goes for
> a few hundred g on my server at least... but chances are every other
> engineer is trying to sell it too!
> 

I'm sure there's an addon to do this, but the economics don't look too
good. I really should use a spreadsheet for this...

On my server, converting engineering mats isn't too proftiable, 
120 Ghost Iron Ore -> 60 GI Bars -> 6 Trillium Bars -> 1 Living Steel
has a quite low profit margin at each step.
GIO ~ 2.5g, GIB ~ 7g, TB ~ 50g, LS ~ 350g

2 White Trillium Ore and 2 Black TO can be smelted to 1 TB.
5 TO can be bought for 1 Spirit of Harmony.
-> 1 TB = 0.4 SoH

Using Riddle of Steel allows you to use 3 TB and 3 Spirits of Harmony
instead. 3 SoH can also make 6 Golden Lotus, which go for about 
40g each on my server - a much more profitable use, more so when used
in flasks.

5 Trillium Ore can be bought for 1 Spirit of Harmony.
2 White Trillium Ore and 2 Black TO can be smelted to 1 TB.
5 TO can be bought for 1 Spirit of Harmony. 
1 TB = 0.8 SoH, and 4.8 SoH -> 1 LS

10 GIBs -> 1 Jards Peculiar Energy Source

Pierre & Rascal-Bot pets = 15 JPES and 15 LS each = 1050 GIBs.
They sell for around 3500g and 5kg respectively. = a net loss

Sky Golem = 30 JPES and 30 LS = 2100 GIBs, and sells for around
19k - which is quite profitable, but hardly a steady income

I think I'm going to farm GIBs until I have enough for a SG, then
see what is profitable at that point. Just *storing* 2100 GIBs will
be a challenge ... need a new bank alt.

pt

On 29/03/2014 2:53 AM, Cryptoengineer wrote:
> Catriona R <catrion...@totalise.co.uk> wrote in news:bplg3hFl8gcU1
> @mid.individual.net:
>
>>
>> On Thu, 27 Mar 2014 12:57:41 -0500, Cryptoengineer
>> <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> With not-to-much-trouble, I've levelled my gnome lock to 615
>>> in Engineering. I've got the Goblin Glider (handy!), and the
>>> Synapse Springs.
>>>
>>> What next? How can I monetize this?
>>>
>>> Unlike Alchemy, nearly all the products of engineering are
>>> only usable by engineers. There's thus little market, since
>>> anyone who can use them, can make their own.
>>>
>>> About the only things that seem marketable are some of the
>>> pets (Pierre, Rascal-Bot), and the Sky Golem. Those all
>>> require massive amounts of mats obtained on cooldowns, and
>>> I'd probably be able to make one only every two weeks
>>> (fortunately, my main is a maxed alchemist, and can do the
>>> transmutes). They go for 4-5 figure prices in my AH, and I
>>> expect the markets kind of thin.
>>>
>>> What else? Portable mailboxes? Big cooking bags? What sells?
>>
>> Don't think anyone's yet mentioned scopes, there's one which goes for
>> a few hundred g on my server at least... but chances are every other
>> engineer is trying to sell it too!
>>
>
> I'm sure there's an addon to do this, but the economics don't look too
> good. I really should use a spreadsheet for this...
>
> On my server, converting engineering mats isn't too proftiable,
> 120 Ghost Iron Ore -> 60 GI Bars -> 6 Trillium Bars -> 1 Living Steel
> has a quite low profit margin at each step.

transmute master +20% 60 bars -> 1.4 LS   if you do enough

> GIO ~ 2.5g, GIB ~ 7g, TB ~ 50g, LS ~ 350g
>
> 2 White Trillium Ore and 2 Black TO can be smelted to 1 TB.
> 5 TO can be bought for 1 Spirit of Harmony.
> -> 1 TB = 0.4 SoH
>
> Using Riddle of Steel allows you to use 3 TB and 3 Spirits of Harmony
> instead. 3 SoH can also make 6 Golden Lotus, which go for about
> 40g each on my server - a much more profitable use, more so when used
> in flasks.
>
> 5 Trillium Ore can be bought for 1 Spirit of Harmony.
> 2 White Trillium Ore and 2 Black TO can be smelted to 1 TB.
> 5 TO can be bought for 1 Spirit of Harmony.
> 1 TB = 0.8 SoH, and 4.8 SoH -> 1 LS
>
> 10 GIBs -> 1 Jards Peculiar Energy Source
>
> Pierre & Rascal-Bot pets = 15 JPES and 15 LS each = 1050 GIBs.
> They sell for around 3500g and 5kg respectively. = a net loss
>
> Sky Golem = 30 JPES and 30 LS = 2100 GIBs, and sells for around
> 19k - which is quite profitable, but hardly a steady income

do they actually sell for that? i.e actually get shifted?

https://theunderminejournal.com/item.php?item=95416
availability remains more or less consistent, maybe increasing, but the 
price is going down.
  This doesn't show how many are made on order or bespoke from customer 
mats. More would tend to go that way once the price gets down to mats 
level, but availability indicates not quite there yet.

> I think I'm going to farm GIBs until I have enough for a SG, then
> see what is profitable at that point. Just *storing* 2100 GIBs will
> be a challenge ... need a new bank alt.
  Best idea, but really only make it for direct sale to someone you know 
or from their mats. Not just on the off chance of what the ah lists for. 
Cod can be held and you are now lumbered, make from your mats and they 
can just say they will only pay 2k less than the agreed price..some 
people think that may even work.


   on the other hand you could sell all the bars for 13-15k or so, minus 
ah cuts if you sell in small lots on the ah
  Odds are it would mostly sell along the way and that is the converging 
price for golems anyway on the bottom graphs.
Horde is, as so often, way higher for mats and items so that could 
favour you if you are over there.

You can store 240 in one mail packet for 30 days for next to no cost.