🚀 go-pugleaf

On Friday, November 29, 2013 4:01:39 AM UTC-6, Peter T. wrote:
> Playing on a low-pop realm can be a ... defiance. In other words its a pain in the arse. Wednesday I barely managed to make a raid for the weekly celestial boss. I told the peeps who joined the raid to stay for Ordos (those who has the legendary cloak). The nerf of the celestials made the kill quite easy. Too easy imho. Anyway. Maybe 20 peeps left and 8 stayed for Ordos. After spending half an hour on recruiting peeps for Ordos we gave up. So whats the fuzz about Openraid? I made an account there in march this year, but I've never used it. Is it good? Bad? Do you meet nice or bitchy players? What is your experiences with openraid? Everybody talks about it and how easy it is to get access to full weekly raids for worldbosses. But when I ask for details I dont really get good answers. I consider using it for flex (I'm 11/14 atm) and my 5-man guild are stuck at Blackfuse anyway... -- Peter T. <https://elite.frontier.co.uk/>

My Son uses it all the time.  So much so they've asked him to become a regular
raid leader and moderator.

He swears by it.  The main thing he likes is that while there can be jerks
and dickheads they don't last long.  People can vote them out of raids and
raid leaders have the option of not even allowing them into the raids they 
run.   Trust me with enough kicks and non-invites they jerks will be weeded
out and what you are left with is people who want to progress with as little
drama and heartaches as possible.

Den 29-11-2013 12:21, Warulak skrev:

>> So whats the fuzz
>> about Openraid? I made an account there in march this year, but
>> I've never used it. Is it good? Bad? Do you meet nice or bitchy
>> players? What is your experiences with openraid? Everybody talks
>> about it and how easy it is to get access to full weekly raids for
>> worldbosses. But when I ask for details I dont really get good
>> answers. I consider using it for flex (I'm 11/14 atm) and my 5-man
>> guild are stuck at Blackfuse anyway... -- Peter T.
>> <https://elite.frontier.co.uk/>
>
> My Son uses it all the time.  So much so they've asked him to become
> a regular raid leader and moderator.
>
> He swears by it.  The main thing he likes is that while there can be
> jerks and dickheads they don't last long.  People can vote them out
> of raids and raid leaders have the option of not even allowing them
> into the raids they run.   Trust me with enough kicks and non-invites
> they jerks will be weeded out and what you are left with is people
> who want to progress with as little drama and heartaches as
> possible.

FANTASTIC!! :)  I am SO sick and tired of those bitchy morons in LFRs. 
I'm simply too old for this bad behaviour.  So I better have to arm my 
noodle carts, raid food, pots and flasks for a friendly openraid flex 
night. :)  Oh maaaan, this will be heaven!

-- 
Peter T.

<https://elite.frontier.co.uk/>

On Fri, 29 Nov 2013 11:01:39 +0100, "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum>
wrote:

>Playing on a low-pop realm can be a ... defiance.  In other words its a 
>pain in the arse.  Wednesday I barely managed to make a raid for the 
>weekly celestial boss.  I told the peeps who joined the raid to stay for 
>Ordos (those who has the legendary cloak).  The nerf of the celestials 
>made the kill quite easy.  Too easy imho.  Anyway.  Maybe 20 peeps left 
>and 8 stayed for Ordos.  After spending half an hour on recruiting peeps 
>for Ordos we gave up.
>
>So whats the fuzz about Openraid?  I made an account there in march this 
>year, but I've never used it.  Is it good?  Bad?  Do you meet nice or 
>bitchy players?  What is your experiences with openraid?  Everybody 
>talks about it and how easy it is to get access to full weekly raids for 
>worldbosses.  But when I ask for details I dont really get good answers.
>
>I consider using it for flex (I'm 11/14 atm) and my 5-man guild are 
>stuck at Blackfuse anyway...

Haven't got any experience of OpenRaid, but potential good news for
you is that Blizz are making the raid browser crossrealm soon - it'll
be fully revamped for WoD and work for pretty much anything, but
they're changing the existing one to at least work on worldbosses and
flex raids in 5.4.2, whenever that hits (hopefully fairly soon). It's
so long since I last used it (Wrath sometime, I think lol) that I
can't 100% remember how to get to it but it'll be somewhere in the
social pane>Raid tab, I think. Sounds extremely useful; even on my
super high pop realm, groups for any world boss other than the
Celestials/Ordos are hard to come by now (and Ordos is tricky if I
don't do it on Wednesday); Galleon is the only one I've actually
killed in ages.

Btw if you're concerned about bad people in the groups, raid browser
used to work like a regularly formed PuG, ie the leader has powers to
boot idiots. Ofc that doesn't help if you get an idiot leader, but
aside from that, it should be slightly better than LFR as far as
playerbase goes. I'm imagining when they do the full revamp, it'll
have enough features and flexibility to replace the likes of oQueue at
least, maybe OpenRaid as well, although OpenRaid seems to be good for
planning groups at set times, which will still have a place I imagine.

On Friday, November 29, 2013 6:31:02 AM UTC-5, Peter T. wrote:
> Den 29-11-2013 12:21, Warulak skrev:
 
>>> So whats the fuzz
>>> about Openraid? I made an account there in march this year, but
>>> I've never used it. Is it good? Bad? Do you meet nice or bitchy
>>> players? What is your experiences with openraid? Everybody talks
>>> about it and how easy it is to get access to full weekly raids for
>>> worldbosses. But when I ask for details I dont really get good
>>> answers. I consider using it for flex (I'm 11/14 atm) and my 5-man
>>> guild are stuck at Blackfuse anyway... -- Peter T.
>>> <https://elite.frontier.co.uk/>
 
>> My Son uses it all the time.  So much so they've asked him to become
>> a regular raid leader and moderator.
 
>> He swears by it.  The main thing he likes is that while there can be
>> jerks and dickheads they don't last long.  People can vote them out
>> of raids and raid leaders have the option of not even allowing them
>> into the raids they run.   Trust me with enough kicks and non-invites
>> they jerks will be weeded out and what you are left with is people
>> who want to progress with as little drama and heartaches as
>> possible.
 
> FANTASTIC!! :)  I am SO sick and tired of those bitchy morons in LFRs.
> I'm simply too old for this bad behaviour.  So I better have to arm my
> noodle carts, raid food, pots and flasks for a friendly openraid flex
> night. :)  Oh maaaan, this will be heaven!

I've used it, and I think it's great. Back when there was no LFD or x-realm, 
you got to know the regulars who PUGged heroics each day, and reputation was
important. OpenRaid recreates that situation.

pt

Den 29-11-2013 15:18, Catriona R skrev:

> Haven't got any experience of OpenRaid, but potential good news for
> you is that Blizz are making the raid browser crossrealm soon - it'll
> be fully revamped for WoD and work for pretty much anything, but
> they're changing the existing one to at least work on worldbosses and
> flex raids in 5.4.2, whenever that hits (hopefully fairly soon). It's
> so long since I last used it (Wrath sometime, I think lol) that I
> can't 100% remember how to get to it but it'll be somewhere in the
> social pane>Raid tab, I think. Sounds extremely useful; even on my
> super high pop realm, groups for any world boss other than the
> Celestials/Ordos are hard to come by now (and Ordos is tricky if I
> don't do it on Wednesday); Galleon is the only one I've actually
> killed in ages.

Interesting.  But the difference between Openraid and a built-in raid 
browser is that the raid browser is just an easy access to raids for 
those who wants to do a single run or boss now and then.  In other 
words.  It will be like a jump-on/jump-off bus.  I'm sure there will be 
a niche for openraid as its possible to rate peeps in Openraid.  And I 
doubt Blizzard will make player ratings available due to its huge impact 
to some (�#%!#@$&) players. :)

-- 
Peter T.

<https://elite.frontier.co.uk/>

Den 29-11-2013 18:08, pete...@gmail.com skrev:

>> FANTASTIC!! :)  I am SO sick and tired of those bitchy morons in LFRs.
>> I'm simply too old for this bad behaviour.  So I better have to arm my
>> noodle carts, raid food, pots and flasks for a friendly openraid flex
>> night. :)  Oh maaaan, this will be heaven!
>
> I've used it, and I think it's great. Back when there was no LFD or x-realm,
> you got to know the regulars who PUGged heroics each day, and reputation was
> important. OpenRaid recreates that situation.

Exactly!

-- 
Peter T.

<https://elite.frontier.co.uk/>

Den 29-11-2013 18:08, pete...@gmail.com skrev:

> I've used it, and I think it's great. Back when there was no LFD or x-realm,
> you got to know the regulars who PUGged heroics each day, and reputation was
> important. OpenRaid recreates that situation.

I miss the days back in BC as you were forced to socialize with other 
peeps due to the lack of automated LFD/R.
When Blizzard introduced the raid browser in WOTLK, you signed up for a 
raid, made a little description of yourself, maybe got an invite and 
made some connections to other guilds very fast.  That is nearly 
impossible now on many low-pop realms.

-- 
Peter T.

<https://elite.frontier.co.uk/>

On Fri, 29 Nov 2013 18:29:12 +0100, "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum>
wrote:

>Den 29-11-2013 18:08, pete...@gmail.com skrev:
>
>> I've used it, and I think it's great. Back when there was no LFD or x-realm,
>> you got to know the regulars who PUGged heroics each day, and reputation was
>> important. OpenRaid recreates that situation.
>
>I miss the days back in BC as you were forced to socialize with other 
>peeps due to the lack of automated LFD/R.
>When Blizzard introduced the raid browser in WOTLK, you signed up for a 
>raid, made a little description of yourself, maybe got an invite and 
>made some connections to other guilds very fast.  That is nearly 
>impossible now on many low-pop realms.

There were positives to that in making connections, yes, but then I
don't miss the days where to group for *anything* you had to be
overgeared for it, wearing better than dropped in the place. Back in
the day: 1800 healing required to join any Kara run... to get 1800 you
needed to be wearing full T5 *rolls eyes*. (Numbers may be slightly
off as this was 6-7 years ago :-P) At least now you can actually get
into runs via the automated grouping systems. 

I'd like to be able to make some connections on my realm again, but
people are so demanding that it's pretty much impossible to join most
runs - nowadays it's ilvl and achievement needed, once again, you
can't do a place (to *get* the achievement) until you've got the
achievement and better gear than drops there. Maybe people are less
picky on low pop realms and actually let other people join their
groups? 

Den 29-11-2013 18:37, Catriona R skrev:

> I'd like to be able to make some connections on my realm again, but
> people are so demanding that it's pretty much impossible to join most
> runs - nowadays it's ilvl and achievement needed, once again, you
> can't do a place (to *get* the achievement) until you've got the
> achievement and better gear than drops there. Maybe people are less
> picky on low pop realms and actually let other people join their
> groups?

I dont recognize what youre writing as I'm on a lowlowlowpop realm. :) 
We just pick up what applies for an empty slot, does the job and cheers.
I popped on mmo-champion's forum yesterday, read a thread about a player 
who whined about the insane requirements for a simple flex in first 2 wings.

<http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1405088-How-the-hell-am-i-supposed-to-get-into-raids>

I really do understand his frustrations.  Now and then I consider a 
realtransfer to a highpop like silvermoon as things can evolve a bit too 
slow on my realm.  So I log my lvl 1 priest there and read /trade in SW. 
  Christ, what a kindergarden...

On my realm we *do* have some unwritten requirements for tanks and 
healers.  But we're mostly fine with two 525-535 healers and a single 
500 healer (they never running on fumes during a normal flex boss fight 
anyway).  So in the big picture we dont really care about ilvl as long 
as we know we have a raid with average skilled players aaaaaaand 
patience.  Its all about common sense.

-- 
Peter T.

<https://elite.frontier.co.uk/>

On Fri, 29 Nov 2013 19:23:04 +0100, "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum>
wrote:

>Den 29-11-2013 18:37, Catriona R skrev:
>> I'd like to be able to make some connections on my realm again, but
>> people are so demanding that it's pretty much impossible to join most
>> runs - nowadays it's ilvl and achievement needed, once again, you
>> can't do a place (to *get* the achievement) until you've got the
>> achievement and better gear than drops there. Maybe people are less
>> picky on low pop realms and actually let other people join their
>> groups?
>
>I dont recognize what youre writing as I'm on a lowlowlowpop realm. :) 
>We just pick up what applies for an empty slot, does the job and cheers.

That is how I've love it to be; it's never ever been that way on my
realm, even when we were only "medium" pop :-( Well, maybe it was in
vanilla, I had a guild then and didn't pug beyond 5-mans, but
certainly from TBC on, trade has always been full of really picky
groups wanting ubergeared people.

>I popped on mmo-champion's forum yesterday, read a thread about a player 
>who whined about the insane requirements for a simple flex in first 2 wings.
>
><http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1405088-How-the-hell-am-i-supposed-to-get-into-raids>
>
>I really do understand his frustrations.  Now and then I consider a 
>realtransfer to a highpop like silvermoon as things can evolve a bit too 
>slow on my realm.  So I log my lvl 1 priest there and read /trade in SW. 
>  Christ, what a kindergarden...

Lol yeah. Silvermoon Alliance is pretty much the same as Draenor Horde
as population levels go; I have an alt there myself, don't read trade
but can imagine it's just exactly the same as on Draenor. High pop
realms have a real deterioration in community IMO, Draenor had a
lovely community in the early days, even if you didn't know people
personally, you'd see them round town enough to recognise most names
around you. Nowadays I hardly recognise anyone, there's just so many
people around that it's a sea of anonymous people. Yeah, grouping
would aid it a bit, but I think the population's still too big to
improve the community that way - heck, I've been grouping for
worldbosses most weeks all through this expansion, still don't
recognise any names!

>On my realm we *do* have some unwritten requirements for tanks and 
>healers.  But we're mostly fine with two 525-535 healers and a single 
>500 healer (they never running on fumes during a normal flex boss fight 
>anyway).  So in the big picture we dont really care about ilvl as long 
>as we know we have a raid with average skilled players aaaaaaand 
>patience.  Its all about common sense.

How I would love that :-) I imagine there are *some* groups like that
on my server, but I gave up years back, the demanding people make so
much noise that it's hard to find the sensible ones, and you pretty
much have an expectation that every pug requires crazy high ilvl,
achievement and vent as a minimum. My ilvl (539) probably just about
meets requirements, but... no achievement and no vent, so forget it
lol. And frankly I don't want to group with people who are that picky,
as they'll also be the types to start kicking the instant anything
goes wrong, so it'll be more stress than fun.

On Sat, 30 Nov 2013 01:24:29 +0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

>In message <bfs7rh...@mid.individual.net> 
>  Catriona R <catrion...@totalise.co.uk> wrote:
>> That is how I've love it to be; it's never ever been that way on my
>> realm, even when we were only "medium" pop :-( Well, maybe it was in
>> vanilla, I had a guild then and didn't pug beyond 5-mans, but
>> certainly from TBC on, trade has always been full of really picky
>> groups wanting ubergeared people.
>
>Generally, the people looking for groups in trade want a group comprised
>entirely of people who have no need for the gear. I remember back in
>Wrath people requiring ridiculous DPS for doing the Raids. I don't
>remember the numbers, but they were numbers that were achievable only by
>people in full top-tier epics. Some groups required that you'd gotten the
>Kingsquisher achievement.

On my server you couldn't even get into VoA if you didn't have the
achievement for the latest boss... so, run said boss the week it comes
out, on every alt, or be locked out until the next major patch and new
boss. At least as a healer I got a bit of leeway on that one, usually
someone would risk me after a while of spamming "need healers", but my
alts were just plain out of luck.

>> How I would love that :-) I imagine there are *some* groups like that
>> on my server, but I gave up years back, the demanding people make so
>> much noise that it's hard to find the sensible ones, and you pretty
>> much have an expectation that every pug requires crazy high ilvl,
>> achievement and vent as a minimum.
>
>Well, yes, Vent is required. I've never been in any raid but LFR that
>did not require you to at least be able to listen on vent.

I've seen people claiming that since TBC though. And I did plenty runs
at that time perfectly well without it, despite the claims of others
that it was "required". Rather annoyed me tbh, my old alliance guild
wanted a melee dps for Kara one day, asked my rogue, but refused to
take me without voicecomms. A few weeks later some of the casual
members of the guild, including me, cleared it with no voice (and our
slowness was more down to casualness=lesser gear and less time spent,
combined with starting way later than the raiders). 

Pretty annoying for me; I have trouble with audio processing,
particularly voices. Particularly fuzzy voices, while I'm trying to
concentrate on doing my job. In the end it comes down to: either I can
put 100% concentration into trying to make out what the random
mumbling is supposed to mean, probably still not get it, and meanwhile
completely screw up everything else I'm trying to do, *or* I can
switch voice off, and be a perfectly competent healer. No contest :-P

>> My ilvl (539) probably just about meets requirements, but... no
>> achievement and no vent,
>
>I don't see how you can do a difficult raid without vent.

Some groups exist which do without it, can't imagine flex mode being
that hard without it anyway. Managed fine when I did guild/friends
runs in Kara, ZA, Gruul, Naxx, anyway - are raids really that much
more complex now? They don't seem so from LFR. Sure, stuff that you
kinda ignore on LFR is likely to kill you on flex, I'd assume, but I'd
also imagine that intelligent players can still manage fine, I've seen
nothing in LFR so far that seems likely to require voice communication
(or indeed, any communication after the fight has started, just a
little organisation beforehand). Admittedly I've only done a bit of
SoO, but previous tiers, nothing stands out unless there's a lot of
completely different mechanics that require particular coordination,
which can't be planned out beforehand - most things involving
coordination which I've met in the past have been fully counterable
with planning. Netherspite and Gruul both come to mind!

I know that groups do exist without Vent, anyway, just they're few and
far between, and I haven't found one since my old guild broke up in
Wrath (admittedly I haven't looked too hard, guild politics aren't for
me, I decided). Quite looking forward to the improved raid browser,
hopefully it may be possible to find some of those groups once more; I
read an article about oQueue recently which mentioned that some groups
there form specifically saying "no voice", and hopefully it'll carry
over to the wider audience when Blizzard's own browser gets revamped.
I'm sure I'm not alone in having hearing problems, or else just not
enjoying the distraction!

Den 30-11-2013 03:46, Catriona R skrev:

> Some groups exist which do without it, can't imagine flex mode being
> that hard without it anyway. Managed fine when I did guild/friends
> runs in Kara, ZA, Gruul, Naxx, anyway - are raids really that much
> more complex now? They don't seem so from LFR.

LFR and normal is completely two different raids.  The first two wings 
in SoO/flex can be done without any kind of teamspeak.  Its just all 
about nuking and takng care of a few adds/ground etc.  Nthing fancy 
there.  If you read strats and see a few vids you can do third wing 
without teamspeak as well.  Fourth wing is just much harder than LFR.
I havent tried any normal raids in SoO due to personal reasons.  But 
MSV, HoF and ToT (Terrace was a walkover!) cant be done on normal 
without teamspeak.  The fights are quite complex compared to LFR.

-- 
Peter T.

<https://elite.frontier.co.uk/>

On Sat, 30 Nov 2013 10:53:18 +0100, "Peter T." <pinoc10@hotmail.cum>
wrote:

>Den 30-11-2013 03:46, Catriona R skrev:
>
>> Some groups exist which do without it, can't imagine flex mode being
>> that hard without it anyway. Managed fine when I did guild/friends
>> runs in Kara, ZA, Gruul, Naxx, anyway - are raids really that much
>> more complex now? They don't seem so from LFR.
>
>LFR and normal is completely two different raids.  The first two wings 
>in SoO/flex can be done without any kind of teamspeak.  Its just all 
>about nuking and takng care of a few adds/ground etc.  Nthing fancy 
>there.  If you read strats and see a few vids you can do third wing 
>without teamspeak as well.  Fourth wing is just much harder than LFR.
>I havent tried any normal raids in SoO due to personal reasons.  But 
>MSV, HoF and ToT (Terrace was a walkover!) cant be done on normal 
>without teamspeak.  The fights are quite complex compared to LFR.

I don't think any raid *can't* be done at all without voice. There's
no possible event that can't be planned for, IMO, a few macros and
plans before the fight actually starts will cover anything, if the
players possess brains. 

I was sure guilds existed without voice, and sure enough, a quick
Google turns up:
http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/07/11/deaf-ventless-raiding-guild-slices-silently-through-heroic-tot/
- if they can do heroic to some extent (seem to have reached Twin
Consorts in ToT, Nazgrim in SoO and cleared the rest, going on
armory), normal and flex should be entirely possible :-)