🚀 go-pugleaf

rms wrote:
> AND THE CROWD GOES WILD!!!
> http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58567
> 
> rms 
> 
> 

did you read some of the comments at the bottom?  run and gun?  what a 
retard.  the whole lot of them seem to have the brains of gerbils.  they 
must all be 13.

hopefully it's a good game.  i won't say i'm excited because...well i 
hated T3.  we'll see.

"J.H." <justaguyhanginout@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:NkZNl.27639$PH1.19986@edtnps82...
>>
> hopefully it's a good game.  i won't say i'm excited because...well i 
> hated T3.  we'll see.


I liked T3 and so long as they don't dumb it down for the console crowd it 
should be good. 

On Mon, 11 May 2009 13:28:52 -0700, "Lunchbox" <notfor@email.invalid>
wrote:

>"J.H." <justaguyhanginout@gmail.com> wrote in message 
>news:NkZNl.27639$PH1.19986@edtnps82...
>>>
>> hopefully it's a good game.  i won't say i'm excited because...well i 
>> hated T3.  we'll see.

>I liked T3 and so long as they don't dumb it down for the console crowd it 
>should be good. 

Thats a knee-slapper. Thanks for the laugh.

On Mon, 11 May 2009 13:28:52 -0700, "Lunchbox" <notfor@email.invalid> wrote:

>"J.H." <justaguyhanginout@gmail.com> wrote in message 
>news:NkZNl.27639$PH1.19986@edtnps82...
>>>
>> hopefully it's a good game.  i won't say i'm excited because...well i 
>> hated T3.  we'll see.
>
>
>I liked T3 and so long as they don't dumb it down for the console crowd it 
>should be good. 

If it's a multi-platform release it almost certainly will end up like that. As
long as Warren Spector has nothing to do with this one that will be an
improvement.

Unified arrows anyone? ;-)

rms wrote:
> AND THE CROWD GOES WILD!!!
> http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58567
> 
> rms 
> 
> 
  No projected release date, still assembling the team to make it, could 
be a long while. Hope they don't rush it too quick.
Albert

On Mon, 11 May 2009 20:43:24 -0500, Albert Conklin <albertconklin@att.net>
wrote:

>rms wrote:
>> AND THE CROWD GOES WILD!!!
>> http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58567
>> 
>> rms 
>> 
>> 
>  No projected release date, still assembling the team to make it, could 
>be a long while. Hope they don't rush it too quick.
>Albert

I hope the sound engine can approach that of the first 2 games.  Also, it
would be nice to have rope arrows and be able to swim again.
We'll see...
-- 
Michael Cecil
http://home.roadrunner.com/~macecil/
http://home.roadrunner.com/~safehex/
http://home.roadrunner.com/~macecil/hackingw7/

Michael Cecil wrote:
> On Mon, 11 May 2009 20:43:24 -0500, Albert Conklin <albertconklin@att.net>
> wrote:
> 
>> rms wrote:
>>> AND THE CROWD GOES WILD!!!
>>> http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58567
>>>
>>> rms 
>>>
>>>
>>  No projected release date, still assembling the team to make it, could 
>> be a long while. Hope they don't rush it too quick.
>> Albert
> 
> I hope the sound engine can approach that of the first 2 games.  Also, it
> would be nice to have rope arrows and be able to swim again.
> We'll see...
Rope arrows are much better then climbing gloves.
Albert

On Mon, 11 May 2009 13:28:52 -0700, "Lunchbox" <notfor@email.invalid>
wrote:

>"J.H." <justaguyhanginout@gmail.com> wrote in message 
>news:NkZNl.27639$PH1.19986@edtnps82...
>>>
>> hopefully it's a good game.  i won't say i'm excited because...well i 
>> hated T3.  we'll see.
>
>
>I liked T3 and so long as they don't dumb it down for the console crowd it 
>should be good. 
>

Andrew, are you reading........?

John Lewis

john.dsl@verizon.net (John Lewis) writes:

> On Mon, 11 May 2009 13:28:52 -0700, "Lunchbox" <notfor@email.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>"J.H." <justaguyhanginout@gmail.com> wrote in message 
>>news:NkZNl.27639$PH1.19986@edtnps82...
>>>>
>>> hopefully it's a good game.  i won't say i'm excited because...well i 
>>> hated T3.  we'll see.
>>
>>
>>I liked T3 and so long as they don't dumb it down for the console crowd it 
>>should be good. 
>>
>
> Andrew, are you reading........?
>
> John Lewis
>

Here we go again. Thief 3 was a GREAT game. There are always trade
offs. And the usual suspects will hang off one perceived "dumb down" or
weakness for ever and a day. Thief 3 looked and played superbly and was
responsible for some the creepiest, arse clenching gameplay of all time.

-- 
I want to keep fighting because it is the only thing that keeps me out
of the hamburger joints. If I don't fight, I'll eat this planet.
-- George Foreman

On 5/12/2009 11:23 AM, Walter Mitty wrote:
> Here we go again. Thief 3 was a GREAT game. There are always trade
> offs. And the usual suspects will hang off one perceived "dumb down" or
> weakness for ever and a day. Thief 3 looked and played superbly and was
> responsible for some the creepiest, arse clenching gameplay of all time.

The Cradle!   Aiyyyeeee!!  :-O

I agree.  Thief and Thief 2 were good (albeit some of the missions were, 
well, off) but Thief 3 was great too.

Walter Mitty wrote:
> john.dsl@verizon.net (John Lewis) writes:
> 
>> On Mon, 11 May 2009 13:28:52 -0700, "Lunchbox" <notfor@email.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "J.H." <justaguyhanginout@gmail.com> wrote in message 
>>> news:NkZNl.27639$PH1.19986@edtnps82...
>>>> hopefully it's a good game.  i won't say i'm excited because...well i 
>>>> hated T3.  we'll see.
>>>
>>> I liked T3 and so long as they don't dumb it down for the console crowd it 
>>> should be good. 
>>>
>> Andrew, are you reading........?
>>
>> John Lewis
>>
> 
> Here we go again. Thief 3 was a GREAT game. There are always trade
> offs. And the usual suspects will hang off one perceived "dumb down" or
> weakness for ever and a day. Thief 3 looked and played superbly and was
> responsible for some the creepiest, arse clenching gameplay of all time.
> 
Like WDS mentioned, "The Cradle". Probably the best part of the game.
Albert

On Tue, 12 May 2009 18:23:54 +0200, Walter Mitty <mitticus@gmail.com> wrote:

>john.dsl@verizon.net (John Lewis) writes:
>
>> On Mon, 11 May 2009 13:28:52 -0700, "Lunchbox" <notfor@email.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"J.H." <justaguyhanginout@gmail.com> wrote in message 
>>>news:NkZNl.27639$PH1.19986@edtnps82...
>>>>>
>>>> hopefully it's a good game.  i won't say i'm excited because...well i 
>>>> hated T3.  we'll see.
>>>
>>>
>>>I liked T3 and so long as they don't dumb it down for the console crowd it 
>>>should be good. 
>>>
>>
>> Andrew, are you reading........?
>>
>> John Lewis
>>
>
>Here we go again. Thief 3 was a GREAT game. There are always trade
>offs. And the usual suspects will hang off one perceived "dumb down" or
>weakness for ever and a day. Thief 3 looked and played superbly and was
>responsible for some the creepiest, arse clenching gameplay of all time.

The tiny levels were a bit of a disappointment. And the fact that guards
weren't able to chase you through those portals from one segment to another as
that would have somewhat mitigated this. But if the consoles couldn't cope
with larger levels that's what we end up with.

On the 11 May 2009, "Lunchbox" <notfor@email.invalid> wrote:

> "J.H." <justaguyhanginout@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:NkZNl.27639$PH1.19986@edtnps82...
>>>
>> hopefully it's a good game.  i won't say i'm excited because...well i
>> hated T3.  we'll see.


> I liked T3 and so long as they don't dumb it down for the console crowd it
> should be good.

The working title supposedly being Thi4f doesn't exactly fill me with 
confidence. Anyone know what the publishers' attitude to DRM is?

-- 
Jades' First Encounters Site - http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm
The best Frontier: First Encounters site on the Web.

nospam@jades.org /is/ a real email address!

On Wed, 13 May 2009 16:03:01 +0100, Graham Thurlwell <nospam@jades.org> wrote:

>On the 11 May 2009, "Lunchbox" <notfor@email.invalid> wrote:
>
>> "J.H." <justaguyhanginout@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:NkZNl.27639$PH1.19986@edtnps82...
>>>>
>>> hopefully it's a good game.  i won't say i'm excited because...well i
>>> hated T3.  we'll see.
>
>
>> I liked T3 and so long as they don't dumb it down for the console crowd it
>> should be good.
>
>The working title supposedly being Thi4f doesn't exactly fill me with 
>confidence. Anyone know what the publishers' attitude to DRM is?

Maybe Elit4 will be released some day? ;-)

On Wed, 13 May 2009 16:03:01 +0100, Graham Thurlwell
<nospam@jades.org> wrote:

>The working title supposedly being Thi4f doesn't exactly fill me with 
>confidence. Anyone know what the publishers' attitude to DRM is?

Thats a Cr4ppy title. 

Memnoch <memnoch@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> writes:

> On Tue, 12 May 2009 18:23:54 +0200, Walter Mitty <mitticus@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>john.dsl@verizon.net (John Lewis) writes:
>>
>>> On Mon, 11 May 2009 13:28:52 -0700, "Lunchbox" <notfor@email.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"J.H." <justaguyhanginout@gmail.com> wrote in message 
>>>>news:NkZNl.27639$PH1.19986@edtnps82...
>>>>>>
>>>>> hopefully it's a good game.  i won't say i'm excited because...well i 
>>>>> hated T3.  we'll see.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I liked T3 and so long as they don't dumb it down for the console crowd it 
>>>>should be good. 
>>>>
>>>
>>> Andrew, are you reading........?
>>>
>>> John Lewis
>>>
>>
>>Here we go again. Thief 3 was a GREAT game. There are always trade
>>offs. And the usual suspects will hang off one perceived "dumb down" or
>>weakness for ever and a day. Thief 3 looked and played superbly and was
>>responsible for some the creepiest, arse clenching gameplay of all time.
>
> The tiny levels were a bit of a disappointment. And the fact that
> guards

The levels were NOT tiny. There were compact and full of atmosphere and
action. But tiny? You sound like one of the supporters of the mythical
"open ended huge area" games advocates which time and time again fail to
impress.

> weren't able to chase you through those portals from one segment to another as
> that would have somewhat mitigated this. But if the consoles couldn't cope
> with larger levels that's what we end up with.

What? A great game?

-- 
I want to keep fighting because it is the only thing that keeps me out
of the hamburger joints. If I don't fight, I'll eat this planet.
-- George Foreman

On Wed, 13 May 2009 23:22:34 +0200, Walter Mitty <mitticus@gmail.com> wrote:

>Memnoch <memnoch@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> writes:
>
>>>Here we go again. Thief 3 was a GREAT game. There are always trade
>>>offs. And the usual suspects will hang off one perceived "dumb down" or
>>>weakness for ever and a day. Thief 3 looked and played superbly and was
>>>responsible for some the creepiest, arse clenching gameplay of all time.
>>
>> The tiny levels were a bit of a disappointment. And the fact that
>> guards
>
>The levels were NOT tiny. There were compact and full of atmosphere and
>action. But tiny? You sound like one of the supporters of the mythical
>"open ended huge area" games advocates which time and time again fail to
>impress.

Okay, tiny may be an exagerration but the my point still stands about the "not
quite tiny levels" and portals connection sections of them means that they are
an easy means of escape from guards. 

>> weren't able to chase you through those portals from one segment to another as
>> that would have somewhat mitigated this. But if the consoles couldn't cope
>> with larger levels that's what we end up with.
>
>What? A great game?

No, not a great game "in your humble opinion". A flawed, but enjoyable game
that could have been better if certain design concessions hadn't needed to be
made due to memory contstraints on the consoles. I enjoyed Thief 3 but it
wasn't as good as Thief 2 as far as I am concerned. I missed the rope arrows
for one thing.

Memnoch <memnoch@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> writes:

> On Wed, 13 May 2009 23:22:34 +0200, Walter Mitty <mitticus@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Memnoch <memnoch@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> writes:
>>
>>>>Here we go again. Thief 3 was a GREAT game. There are always trade
>>>>offs. And the usual suspects will hang off one perceived "dumb down" or
>>>>weakness for ever and a day. Thief 3 looked and played superbly and was
>>>>responsible for some the creepiest, arse clenching gameplay of all time.
>>>
>>> The tiny levels were a bit of a disappointment. And the fact that
>>> guards
>>
>>The levels were NOT tiny. There were compact and full of atmosphere and
>>action. But tiny? You sound like one of the supporters of the mythical
>>"open ended huge area" games advocates which time and time again fail to
>>impress.
>
> Okay, tiny may be an exagerration but the my point still stands about the "not
> quite tiny levels" and portals connection sections of them means that they are
> an easy means of escape from guards. 
>
>>> weren't able to chase you through those portals from one segment to another as
>>> that would have somewhat mitigated this. But if the consoles couldn't cope
>>> with larger levels that's what we end up with.
>>
>>What? A great game?
>
> No, not a great game "in your humble opinion". A flawed, but enjoyable
> game

All we can give is our opinions. It's a given.

> that could have been better if certain design concessions hadn't needed to be
> made due to memory constraints on the consoles. I enjoyed Thief 3 but it
> wasn't as good as Thief 2 as far as I am concerned. I missed the rope arrows
> for one thing.

I didn't. It was a new version. It has changes. It was a lot tighter
than Thief 2 IMO and much better paced.

As for the level size, how big should a level be? I found them plenty
big enough because of the detail involved in them.


-- 
I want to keep fighting because it is the only thing that keeps me out
of the hamburger joints. If I don't fight, I'll eat this planet.
-- George Foreman

On Thu, 14 May 2009 00:41:20 GMT, Memnoch
<memnoch@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> wrote:

>No, not a great game "in your humble opinion". A flawed, but enjoyable game
>that could have been better if certain design concessions hadn't needed to be
>made due to memory contstraints on the consoles.

Constraints of the dev team. When a console can run a game like GTA:SA
with miles and miles of gameplay without seeing a loading screen it
shows what can be done by talented programmers.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

On Thu, 14 May 2009 05:47:36 +0100, Andrew <spamtrap@127.0.0.1> wrote:

>On Thu, 14 May 2009 00:41:20 GMT, Memnoch
><memnoch@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>No, not a great game "in your humble opinion". A flawed, but enjoyable game
>>that could have been better if certain design concessions hadn't needed to be
>>made due to memory contstraints on the consoles.
>
>Constraints of the dev team. When a console can run a game like GTA:SA
>with miles and miles of gameplay without seeing a loading screen it
>shows what can be done by talented programmers.

They have learnt a lot in the last 4 or 5 years haven't they? Did you mean SA
or GTA4 by the way, just checking. Either way you are right I suppose. Well it
would be interesting to see how a Thief 4 develops. Will the same design
decisions be made or will they use their superior programming skills and not
balls it up? ;-)

On Thu, 14 May 2009 06:23:01 GMT, Memnoch
<memnoch@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> wrote:

>>Constraints of the dev team. When a console can run a game like GTA:SA
>>with miles and miles of gameplay without seeing a loading screen it
>>shows what can be done by talented programmers.
>
>They have learnt a lot in the last 4 or 5 years haven't they? Did you mean SA
>or GTA4 by the way, just checking.

I meant GTA:SA because that game came out on the same console as Thief
3, the XBox.
-- 
Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

Andrew wrote:
> On Thu, 14 May 2009 06:23:01 GMT, Memnoch
> <memnoch@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> wrote:
> 
>>> Constraints of the dev team. When a console can run a game like GTA:SA
>>> with miles and miles of gameplay without seeing a loading screen it
>>> shows what can be done by talented programmers.
>> They have learnt a lot in the last 4 or 5 years haven't they? Did you mean SA
>> or GTA4 by the way, just checking.
> 
> I meant GTA:SA because that game came out on the same console as Thief
> 3, the XBox.

Oblivion also had a huge outdoors with no transitions (well, except to 
indoors).

T4 is sorta inevitably doomed .
The "T2 is best, T3 is  a crime" people versus the "T3 is allright" people
have aggressive positions to an extent ever greater than I remember with e.g
Dues Ex & DX Invisible War or Quake 1st v Quake 2, or the 2 Unreal's.
I can not imagine any game design style that will satisfy all.
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")  mouse 

"Tim O" <timo56@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:ilfh059unc8ht13ef2vhtrfjmce0uofi9r@4ax.com...
> Thats a knee-slapper. Thanks for the laugh.


FU, T3 was a good game. 

On Fri, 15 May 2009 02:14:36 +0100, "Trimble Bracegirdle" <no-spam@never.spam>
wrote:

>T4 is sorta inevitably doomed .
>The "T2 is best, T3 is  a crime" people versus the "T3 is allright" people
>have aggressive positions to an extent ever greater than I remember with e.g
>Dues Ex & DX Invisible War or Quake 1st v Quake 2, or the 2 Unreal's.
>I can not imagine any game design style that will satisfy all.

Because of the DX2 "unified ammo" decision, well before its release T3 was
already getting flak. I hope the same doesn't happen for the fourth
installment.

On Thu, 14 May 2009 23:15:36 -0700, "Flim Flam Man" <flim@my.flam>
wrote:

>"Tim O" <timo56@REMOVEhotmail.com> wrote in message 
>news:ilfh059unc8ht13ef2vhtrfjmce0uofi9r@4ax.com...
>> Thats a knee-slapper. Thanks for the laugh.
>
>
>FU, T3 was a good game. 

I didn't say anything about Thief 3 dummy.

On 2009-05-11 18:26:45 +0100, "rms" <rsquires@REMOVEflashMOO.net> said:

> AND THE CROWD GOES WILD!!!
> http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58567
> 
> rms

Only if it is like Thief 1 or 2 - Have no interest in a Thief 3 type game...

RobP

Trimble Bracegirdle wrote:
> T4 is sorta inevitably doomed .

  It's far too early for that kind of defaitist attitude.

  I'm sure of one thing: I'll be disappointed in some of what T4 does.
(Just as I was with T3. And T2.) But I'm also sure of another thing: some
of the things it is going to do will be so spot on that I wonder that even
Looking Glass missed them.

  It won't be Garrett -- and that may doom it in some trivial aspect.

  The main problem is probably to be to get the storytelling right
in all its aspects, from the 'read me'







-- 
Anders Thulin     anders*thulin.name     http://www.anders.thulin.name/

On Fri, 15 May 2009 14:57:21 +0100, Robert Pollard
<robertapollard@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On 2009-05-11 18:26:45 +0100, "rms" <rsquires@REMOVEflashMOO.net> said:
>
>> AND THE CROWD GOES WILD!!!
>> http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58567
>> 
>> rms
>
>Only if it is like Thief 1 or 2 - Have no interest in a Thief 3 type game...

I love sneaker games. I even play regular FPS games like this, at least the
ones that allow you to play stealthily.

Memnoch wrote:
> On Fri, 15 May 2009 14:57:21 +0100, Robert Pollard
> <robertapollard@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 2009-05-11 18:26:45 +0100, "rms" <rsquires@REMOVEflashMOO.net> said:
>>
>>> AND THE CROWD GOES WILD!!!
>>> http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58567
>>>
>>> rms
>> Only if it is like Thief 1 or 2 - Have no interest in a Thief 3 type game...
> 
> I love sneaker games. I even play regular FPS games like this, at least the
> ones that allow you to play stealthily.
Which games in particular might those be?
Albert

On Fri, 15 May 2009 21:16:21 -0500, Albert Conklin <albertconklin@att.net>
wrote:

>Memnoch wrote:
>> On Fri, 15 May 2009 14:57:21 +0100, Robert Pollard
>> <robertapollard@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2009-05-11 18:26:45 +0100, "rms" <rsquires@REMOVEflashMOO.net> said:
>>>
>>>> AND THE CROWD GOES WILD!!!
>>>> http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58567
>>>>
>>>> rms
>>> Only if it is like Thief 1 or 2 - Have no interest in a Thief 3 type game...
>> 
>> I love sneaker games. I even play regular FPS games like this, at least the
>> ones that allow you to play stealthily.
>Which games in particular might those be?

Any of the Thief games.
Deus Ex 1 - less so with its sequel.
Far Cry - Again less so with the sequel. I sense a pattern emerging.
Crysis and Crysis Warhead
OFP/Arma/VBS1&2
Ghost Recon
Vietcong

There are loads really. Some implement it better than others of course.

Surely also the Splinter Cells ?
@@@ 

"Memnoch" <memnoch@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> wrote in message 
news:t1lj059o46mlbaubekv5mdrvfuhtjnaj43@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 12 May 2009 18:23:54 +0200, Walter Mitty <mitticus@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>
> And the fact that guards
> weren't able to chase you through those portals from one segment to 
> another as
> that would have somewhat mitigated this.

The bigger issue for me was the endlessly spawning general public.

JJ (UK) 

"Memnoch" <memnoch@nospampleaseimbritish.ntlworld.com> wrote in message 
news:bqfs05tmqbtmvr18gnmdltbhbsmsrl3ok2@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 15 May 2009 21:16:21 -0500, Albert Conklin <albertconklin@att.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Memnoch wrote:
>>Which games in particular might those be?
>
> Any of the Thief games.
> Deus Ex 1 - less so with its sequel.
> Far Cry - Again less so with the sequel. I sense a pattern emerging.

I find stealthing easier in Far Cry 2 than I do Far Cry...

But I found Far Cry more enjoyable than Far Cry 2 (which gets repetitive).

JJ (UK) 

rms wrote:
> AND THE CROWD GOES WILD!!!
> http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58567
> 
> rms 
> 
> 

Not sure if this is news to you guys here, but T4 is now officially on 
pre-order at Amazon.co.uk

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eidos-Thief-4-PC/dp/B002BWONGM/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t

It's sure coming, hope this time round is gonna be better.

The Traditionalist.

"barnabyh" <invalid@address.org> wrote in message 
news:h6290l$pra$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> rms wrote:
>> AND THE CROWD GOES WILD!!!
>> http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58567
>>
>> rms
>
> Not sure if this is news to you guys here, but T4 is now officially on 
> pre-order at Amazon.co.uk
>
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eidos-Thief-4-PC/dp/B002BWONGM/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t
>
> It's sure coming, hope this time round is gonna be better.


Why? It will just be dumbed down for console newbies, like Thief 3, Serious 
Sam 2, Deus X 2, Bioshock and Oblivion (despite not being able to play an 
FPS properly on their newbie consoles. 

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 08:58:34 +0100, "Ayatollah of rock 'n' roller"
<thisisf@lse.co.ck> wrote:

> 
> "barnabyh" <invalid@address.org> wrote in message 
> news:h6290l$pra$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> > rms wrote:
> >> AND THE CROWD GOES WILD!!!
> >> http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58567
> >>
> >> rms
> >
> > Not sure if this is news to you guys here, but T4 is now officially on 
> > pre-order at Amazon.co.uk
> >
> > http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eidos-Thief-4-PC/dp/B002BWONGM/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t
> >
> > It's sure coming, hope this time round is gonna be better.
> 
> 
> Why? It will just be dumbed down for console newbies, like Thief 3, Serious 
> Sam 2, Deus X 2, Bioshock and Oblivion (despite not being able to play an 
> FPS properly on their newbie consoles. 
> 

Pry-tell, "dumbed down," what do you mean?

Thief-3, Bioshock, Oblivion dumbed down?!!!  None of these games are
action games, they ARE RPG and play like any RPG.  Bioshock especially
is NOT dumbed down IMHO.

I love the entire Thief series because it's all about stealth and
expert thieves do not kill humans.  In one of the games (Thief-2 ?)
there is a mission where you have to get in-and-out without anyone
detecting you (can't even use your Black-Jack).

Garrett wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 08:58:34 +0100, "Ayatollah of rock 'n' roller"
> <thisisf@lse.co.ck> wrote:
> 
>> "barnabyh" <invalid@address.org> wrote in message 
>> news:h6290l$pra$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> rms wrote:
>>>> AND THE CROWD GOES WILD!!!
>>>> http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58567
>>>>
>>>> rms
>>> Not sure if this is news to you guys here, but T4 is now officially on 
>>> pre-order at Amazon.co.uk
>>>
>>> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eidos-Thief-4-PC/dp/B002BWONGM/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t
>>>
>>> It's sure coming, hope this time round is gonna be better.
>>
>> Why? It will just be dumbed down for console newbies, like Thief 3, Serious 
>> Sam 2, Deus X 2, Bioshock and Oblivion (despite not being able to play an 
>> FPS properly on their newbie consoles. 
>>
> 
> Pry-tell, "dumbed down," what do you mean?
> 
> Thief-3, Bioshock, Oblivion dumbed down?!!!  None of these games are
> action games, they ARE RPG and play like any RPG.  Bioshock especially
> is NOT dumbed down IMHO.
> 
> I love the entire Thief series because it's all about stealth and
> expert thieves do not kill humans.  In one of the games (Thief-2 ?)
> there is a mission where you have to get in-and-out without anyone
> detecting you (can't even use your Black-Jack).
> 
> 

Hoho, that was fun. Blimey, how long ago? I can tell ya kid, back in my 
day...

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 04:33:45 -0700, Garrett <tecknode@NOSPAM.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 08:58:34 +0100, "Ayatollah of rock 'n' roller"
><thisisf@lse.co.ck> wrote:
>
>> 
>> "barnabyh" <invalid@address.org> wrote in message 
>> news:h6290l$pra$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> > rms wrote:
>> >> AND THE CROWD GOES WILD!!!
>> >> http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58567
>> >>
>> >> rms
>> >
>> > Not sure if this is news to you guys here, but T4 is now officially on 
>> > pre-order at Amazon.co.uk
>> >
>> > http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eidos-Thief-4-PC/dp/B002BWONGM/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t
>> >
>> > It's sure coming, hope this time round is gonna be better.
>> 
>> 
>> Why? It will just be dumbed down for console newbies, like Thief 3, Serious 
>> Sam 2, Deus X 2, Bioshock and Oblivion (despite not being able to play an 
>> FPS properly on their newbie consoles. 
>> 
>
>Pry-tell, "dumbed down," what do you mean?
>
>Thief-3, Bioshock, Oblivion dumbed down?!!!  None of these games are
>action games, they ARE RPG and play like any RPG.  Bioshock especially
>is NOT dumbed down IMHO.

I would describe T3 as an RPG really. And Bioshock, Oblivion and even
Morrowind suffered from being multi platform releases. They wouldn't have been
the same games if they had been released for PC only. The first thing to
notice is the UI. It's always bigger because of the TV thing. That's a sure
sign along with no real inventory management, which normally falls by the
wayside because most console users won't have a mouse. So what you end up with
is a list of items. by name, rather than a screen with weapons in where you
might have to juggle things around to make it all fit. Fallout 3 is a good
example of this. Look at the inventory in Stalker for a comparison or Deux Ex.

Here is the Deus Ex UI.

http://markdangerchen.net/media/blog/2008/01/deusex-2008-01-25-04-29-06-50.png

And here is the Deus Ex 2 UI.

http://www.stuffwelike.com/stuffwelike/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/deus-ex-invisible-war-04-l.jpg

I know which type I prefer.

The console controller and effectively the seating position of the player
defines how the game is going to look and thus the PC version also. These may
be simple things to some people but they are just a few examples of the
symptoms of a bigger problem. Games seem to be getting less and less
sophisticated in many ways and I for one want that complexity.