🚀 go-pugleaf

MuuMiMan wrote:
> IN TEH PALECE KNOWEN AS alt.games.starcraft, TEH FAGGORTER Marsh_lion
> <marsh...@SPAMparadise.net.nz> DUMPED HIS GHEYE SHIET ON MY COMPUTAR
> SCREEN!!!!:
>> This I'm not too sure about. IMO it is very hard to get Terran's 
>> rolling, and when they do, it still isn't all that fast. 
> 
> I never claimed they were fast - In fact, if you read my message, my
> major complain was how I'm unable relatively unable compete with the
> slowness of terran in situations that require your units to be fast
> somewhere totally else than where they are.
> With the "rolling" I was referring to the fact that bar tricky unit
> maneuvering and lot's of resources, it's /very/ hard for Toss to
> challenge a leap-frogging terran ground army head on. It's a suicide
> run, lest you have a chance for flanking or some more special crap at
> your disposal.
> 
I misunderstood you there. While there are ways, I've hardly ever put 
them into practice (although I have used leapfrogging tanks in the past).

>> Take Tanks for 
>> example, when not in siege mode, their damage is not great (nor is their 
>> firing speed). 
> 
> Unsieged tanks match goons one on one pretty well, so they're hardly
> weak. It's just that they're a lot more expensive and also far more
> effective in siege mode, so you can't really use them most of the time
> in the same manner.
> 
Not to mention they can't attack air (there are times when I love to 
mass goons - there is no way that would work with tanks).

>> Goliaths AI and pathing is crap (and coupled 
>> with their large size, they are ripped up by explosive attacks. However 
>> their anti-air is well worth considering).
>>
> Goliath pathing is a factor on cliff-heavy maps and against an
> opponent who has a clue on how to use his air units effectively, but
> open ground they're gods.I still say you should despite that rely on
> gols mostly for AA, but as said earlier, a handful of wraiths to chase
> down stray or half-dead retreats can come in handy - Just don't throw
> them down into the main fray and expect them to live through it.
> 
Golaiths (apart from attacking Air) are basically 2 (dumb) marines 
squashed together. Their extra durability comes from their extra cost.
> 
>> Agreed. IMO, Zerg is best early game, Protoss in mid and Terran 
>> (assuming a skilled player) near the end.
> 
> I wouldn't really agree with that, and what the respective power peak
> will be is going to heavily depend on what race your opponent is, as
> well as the map being played - More over, its a more quickly and often
> shifting thing and trying to break it down into just the 3 major tech
> periods is simplifying things to the point where it's questionable if
> they hold any truth in them.
> 
Quite right. I just find that it's easy to get somewhere fast as Zerg 
(generally until good splash comes about - Protoss Reavers do a good job 
of that), Protoss take me a little longer (and it gives me a chance to 
enjoy the game more). Terran on the other hand, I can't play all that 
well, but can appreciate how a good player plays them (and I see that 
with effective use of Science vessels, and ghosts - all of which are 
generally found in the late game).

>> If you're focusing on defense (and not to worried about attacking) you will 
>> want your marines in a bunker 
> Marines in bunker are a waste of 100 minerals and slow your tech if
> you're doing a wallin, and against zerg you can just pull 1-2 SCV(s)
> off minerals to the choke and achieve almost the same effect.
> 
> On maps with ramps the only place I tend to bunker is the peon line,
> and even only then if I'm expecting Muta or some form of drops from
> the enemy. And that bunker you're not going to need until early
> mid-game at the earliest.
> 
As mentioned - it's for defending as opposed to attacking. I don't wall 
in as a general rule, so find bunkers very handy in making my defenses 
last until re-enforcements arrive (you mentioned about Terrans movement 
speed earlier).
> 
>> So true. One thing to consider is that Gas is the only truely unlimited 
>> resource on any map (even when depleted, they still give gas).
>>
> But since the rate of aquisition is so slow, that is by large
> irrelevant as long as there's still minable gas mines on the map, so
> it really only becomes a factor into the game when playing extremely
> resource-limited maps.
> 
Something any player should think about when playing on a familiar map.

>>> 1) They're large in size, so they take virtually full damage from
>>> anything that can shoot at them 
>>>
>> Correction, they are not large. IIRC the manual says they are small, 
>> although they may well have been patched up to medium (marines are 
>> small, hydra's, zealots & Protoss Scouts are medium and dragoons are large).
>>
> I don't know what the manual says since I've misplaced it somewhere
> ages ago, but I suggest you check your facts -  Wraiths are large, and
> have always been large ever since version 1.00.
> You can check that by actually going into the game and shooting at
> them with an explosive attack, or just go the unit statistic's section
> on Blizz SCC (http://www.battle.net/scc/terran/ustats.shtml).
> 
> Also, Zealots are small and scouts are large. Only medium-sized air
> unit is the Corsair.
> 
I could have sworn otherwise (put a marine and a zealot in a dropship to 
see what I mean).

>> Wraiths are great for hit and runs (sure vultures are faster, but they 
>> can't attack air, nor go over cliffs) and large air units. They are even 
>> better if the enemy is stupid enough not to detect them.
>>
> Wraiths are great for hit & runs - If you're chasing air targets.
> 
What's easier to do - Get vultures through a chock point, or get wraiths 
to avoid a chock point? OK dropships can help vultures, but are easy 
prey for any anti-air (I'd consider anything else too slow).

You've also got to remember, that knowing the map can be a huge 
advantage. Not only do you have to adjust your tactics for who you are 
playing against, you have to adjust for the map. A map like bloodbath 
requires considerably different tactic's to a map like the killing fields.

--
Marsh Lion
Crazy programmer