🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <rgdb2.1405$961....@server1.news.adelphia.net>,
  tabmok99....@damnspaz.com (]{0MBAT) wrote:

> What you're trying to do is shift attention away from pot to something
> else.  Regardless of the fact that there would still br brain damage,
> legalizing drugs would just cause more of it.

My point is that virtually everything you do/consume causes some brain damage,
and there's no reason to single out drugs as opposed to something else.

> You can prevent deaths by just keeping drugs illegal.  No matter whose fault
> the death is, at least a life isn't lost.

Aha!  Philosophy!  So why should a life be sacred?  What makes life so
special?  I'm sure you step on ants every day without realizing it.  I don't
think you're vegetarian, so animals are dying every day for your food.	What
makes it so important that humans are kept alive?

> > Everyone knows the dangers.  When you step into a car you're taking
> > the risk that you'll crash and burn.  But you do it anyway because you
> > want to get from A to B.  You take a risk.  If you die it's your fault.
> Yeah, but you don't take drugs to get from point A to point B.  People
> only take drugs for negative reasons.  It's a risk that just isn't worth
> it.

Someone could say you only drive for negative reasons too.  "Back in the good
old days, people lived with their family in one village their whole life." 
And you can see how that viewpoint could be taken.  "People leaving town are
betraying their family and friends."  "They think they're so 'above' everyone
else."	This is was general opinion in the days of small towns and no real
transport away.  But now we drive around the country, fly around the world,
and why?  So we can contact people who don't live with us, so we can see
beautiful sights on vacation, so we can explore new cultures....

What makes drugs so different?	Alot of people take drugs as a "vacation". 
Alot of people take drugs so they can contact people who they normally never
would - it's a little deeper than just going to see someone - i mean people
who find they need to have a few beers before they can truly let go and
socialize.  Can we explore new cultures on drugs?  That depends on how much
you believe of what Terrence McKenna writes.  Either way everyone has a
reason to drugs, and not many of them are negative.  Why would someone do
something for a negative reason anyway?  "I want to do drugs because i want
to feel really shit on the comedown"!?

> And is it really worth their life?

They obviously think so.

> It doesn't matter if its their
> fault or the drugs fault or the government's fault for making drugs legal, if
> you can save them from ruining their life by keeping things pretty much like
> they are, you might as well do it.

So you'd prefer a fascist state where everyone was forced not to enjoy
themselves just in case they hurt themselves to a liberal state where people
could enjoy themselves if they wished and get help from the state on the
offchance that they did hurt themselves?

> And you can't get rid of the people, and you even said yourself there's no way
> to teach them, so why make it easy for them to kill themselves and ruin their
> lives?

Because if these people don't want to be in out society we shouldn't force
them to do so.

> > > And making it easy for them to act violent should be legal???
> > Ever hear of something called "freedom"???
> People shouldn't be allowed to do whatever they want.  Should killing people
> be OK so as to give everyone freedom?

No.  Remember the victim has no freedom in that case.  With drugs the victim
and the murderer are the same person, and then the freedom is valid.

> So should people be allowed to take rat poison also?

If they want.  But they have to know what it is they're taking beforehand.

> Sounds like you're the brainwashed one.  Brainwashed by drugs.

Surprising, since compared to alot of people i'm very conservative with my
intake.  I wouldn't use any more or less drugs if they became legal.  I don't
think anyone else would either.  I don't see how that's brainwashing.  It's
taking a sample and projecting what could happen to the population from that.
Basic scientific research method.  I don't see you doing that.	You're saying
"oh even though i'd never use drugs when they were legal, i'm sure everyone
else would".

> > Would you?  You ignored the question before, but i know you wouldn't.  And
> > don't think you're the only one in the world with that attitude - there are
> > an awful lot.
> I have before, a couple times when I was with friends.  I didn't want to say
> anything about it, but I've said it now.

Then it was peer pressure which caused you to take the drugs, not their legal
status.  You've just reinforced my point.

> I didn't say billions or millions.  Now you're putting words into my ass.
> When I say flocks, I'm thinking hundreds.  I'm including lesbian marriage,
> too.

Hundreds in a country with a population of a quarter billion isn't much at
all.

> And it would encourage drug use in the future, when we're all
> dead and forgotten (except by Dejanews).

Yes it probably would, i admit that.  But what's the problem with that?

> > Drugs won't make you kill yourself either.  Only people who are already
> > predisposed toward doing that will do it.
> Right, so drugs shouldn't be made legal because those people would be pushed
> over the edge by drugs.

Unstable people are pushed over the edge by watching violent movies too.  Or
by aggressive music.  Should we ban that too?  People with mental problems
are not a majority of the population.  Should the rest of us sacrifice things
we enjoy just for the benefit of people who are ill?

> Finally, I'm seeing some real reasons why drugs should be legal...  the South
> America/Drug Wars part.

That's such an elementary reason i never thought to even name it at first.
That's always been the public reason behind the anti-drug war movement.

> But legalizing drugs would help kill more people than
> they would help save.
>

It might kill more *Americans* but Brazilians, Columbans, Mexicans...  They'd
be overjoyed that the USA and other Western countries would finally be taking
full responsibility for the whims of their own citizens.

I still maintain however that it wouldn't kill more people.  There is
billions of dollars thrown away in the drug war every year.  Even if only a
fraction of that was transferred to public clinics for drug users it would
provide a basic safety net for any people who might go overboard with this
newfound freedom (and i still think many would not do that)

Alex

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